How did the Romans Prove Their Identity?
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- Before IDs, full government records, or efficient communication, how did the ancient Romans prove their identity?
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Chapters:
0:00 The Three False Neros
1:36 The stakes of establishing identity
3:10 Kamikoto
4:24 Birth certificates and census records
5:40 Military records
6:33 Proving identity
7:28 Petronia Iusta
8:01 Archias
8:35 Titus Flavius Longus
8:58 Civis Romanus sum
The False Nero was able to convince everybody with his Established Titles documentation and the fact he carried a Kamikito Knife lent him an air of legitimacy.
Nobody cares bot
@@AverageAlien Well people clearly care more about his comment than yours
@@AverageAlien Whooosh
for more convincing nero character he exclusively drink wine from bright cellar
@@AverageAlien Your the bot
"Identity Fraud in Ancient Rome" would be a great way to revisit this topic in the future.
"Today's sponsor is Shark VPN"
Lifus Lockus can protect your identity for ninety nine lira per month.
The note about distinguishing slaves from citizens reminded me of an anecdote -- Seneca mentioned in De Clementia (Book I, Chapter 24) that the Senate had briefly considered a plan to mandate that slaves all wear some distinguishing mark of clothing, but quickly abandoned it once they realized that it might inspire rebellion, as the slaves would then realize their own superior numbers. (An interesting corollary of that anecdote -- evidently, it was very difficult to tell the difference between slaves and citizens by appearance alone.)
Just as a heads-up, both Kamikoto and Established Titles (the two most recent sponsors) are owned by the same people and are both scams.
Kamikoto knives aren’t manufactured in Japan and aren’t premium knives but rather made with cheap steel. Established Titles can’t sell you these tiny pieces of land in Scotland (selling land this small and without possible use is explicitly illegal there) and even if they did, owning land does not grant you the title of Lord. They also don’t plant trees themselves but just donate a portion of the money, something that could be done directly without the middleman.
how do you know established titles is a scam?
Established Titles is a gag gift like the star naming thing. Those are duh. The only thing Established Titles owes you is a tree in your name.
@@jercasgav but who cares, now there are millions of lords and youtubers made mad $$$$ 🤣
@@dzxn3728 the problem isn't their product, it's how they advertised it which was incredibly misleading. It's about ethics
@@dzxn3728 Which is why it is a scam... They don't even do the bare minimum. They claim to donate a small amount to a charity which they have not even provided proof of doing. Shady... please avoid.
Kamikoto knives are a scam essentially, the knives are cheaply massproduced in china and you'll get ones of similar quality for less than 10 dollars anywhere.
yeah I love this guy's vids but he's gotta ditch the scam knives and scam title ads
Anybody who buys stuff from youtube sponsors is stupid anyway, let the dude get money from these shit companies, dont need to buy it
Every ad is a scam. You're complaining about the obvious 🙄
Kamikoto is ran by the same people behind Established thingie
@@Vicus_of_Utrecht no not every ad LOL let's not be hyperbolic here
you might want to look into the established titles scam. kamikoto is owned by the same people and the factory were these are made are believed to be in china not japan. as a knife maker, welder and woodworker i don't appreciate companies lying about how or where there product is made and i do not believe these are made by any "traditional" method. the only thing the might do is have there flat sheets of steel fold a few times. love the videos!
(edit) it is made of a type of japanese steal but it is the cheapest stainless steal you can get with very little carbon to keep a sharp edge. it is 420j2
Let's hope this guy read comments
@@stellviahohenheim I’ve yet to see him respond to the multitude of comments about this Hong Kong company. People are commenting they actually ordered them for gifts smh. I always stick with Wüsthof knives because I know someone who works in their HQ and sends them to me directly from the factory plus I get a nice discount 😊
Edit: my terrible spelling
@@chrisdooley1184 i like their knives, but personally i like to go to second hand stores to find old japanese knives and wusthofs. alot cheaper but harder to find.
@@spyterpig that sounds like fun especially if you’re able to give some love and attention to an older knife that’s rare sitting in the back of a second hand shop. I’ve found some fascinating things over years at estate sales too. Good luck 👍🏼
It's all the same generic knives
*Fun fact:* the Steven Saylor's novel "Empire" deals at one point with the proof of identity of a free citizen raised as a slave. In this book, a patrician discovers that a buried alive Vestal with whom he had relations had a son of his, who was abandoned and rescued by a craftsman to serve him as his helper. After finding his son, the patrician brings him into Trajan's presence and convinces the emperor to restore the boy's patrician status without granting him the title of freedman...Years later, that boy would become the builder of Trajan's Column, Hadrian's Mauselum and other ancient architectural wonders of the roman world
Apollodorus of Damascus?
@@jonwarland272 Nope. Anyway, Apollodorus would become the boy's father-in-law.
Caveat Emptor Plebians 🌿😆🌿
I love Saylor's books. They are so well researched.
Patrician slave? Wtf
Don't deal with Kamikoto. They're owned by the same people who do Deal Dash and Established Titles, both scam companies.
You’re just jealous
@@michaelpacinus242 explain please how warning about companies potentially being scams is jealousy
@@SymphoniasStories were you really worried about being scammed? Did you ever do anything other than skip ahead through the ad portion? Just let the man get paid and skip ahead in the free video he made for you
@@michaelpacinus242him getting his bag wasn't the issue, it's the scam company that people have a problem with. and just because you skipped, that doesn't mean someone else didn't, they have a right to know about the scam.
@@michaelpacinus242 it is a scam. ua-cam.com/video/NG4Ws74RV04/v-deo.html here’s a decent video that explains the situation with the company, but basically : because of the way scottish law works, buying a square meter of land doesn’t actually make you the owner of it, it’s still legally the company’s land, not to mention the fact that the company doesn’t plant the trees it’s supposed to plant either, and the deed you get? it’s worthless.
Lords and ladies aren’t chosen due to any private land, the process is completely different.
"I'll be back. I'm going to buy some bread."
-Becomes imprisoned as a slave in a windowless workshop.
Probably the Bakery he went to buy bread from...
That had to suck so much
There's actually a true story of a German-Brazilian man that had been living in Germany during WW2 and ended up conscripted into the German Army when he went out to buy bread.
@@Fluckye A lot of people were grabbed and conscripted, no questions asked. One poor guy born in what became modern Hungary got grabbed into both the German and Russian armies, wrong place, wrong time.
The Polish did something similar to the Nero situation. They sent two false Dimitri's to Russia after the original had passed away. The mind boggeling thing is that it worked the first time and he was put on the throne.
there were so many false Dimitry, 3 from historical Poland (or by powers within the territory than controlled by the forefather of the modern Polish state), and a few from Russia itself, some of which having regional, others, more Tsardom-wide effect.
I had never heard of this and I thank you for the last hour of my time being spent educating myself on it! Sometimes the UA-cam comment section does have a positive side, it seems haha
@@varden506 If you are interested in Russian history I can reconmend a book by Geoffrey Hosking called 'Russia and the Russians.' its a big pill to swallow as it covers all of Russian history but its a great read.
I'm surprised they knew how to read a map
Somewhere in this video is a meta af lesson that "we are who we are because of our friends and family"
Dr. Ryan, could you elaborate more on ancient pretenders and share any intriguing stories of pretenders who (almost) succeeded? Additionally, how might a hypothetical time traveler pose as a Roman Emperor or even an incarnate deity?
- A man who certainly does NOT own a time machine
There was one pretender to the throne of the Seleucid empire who was successful for a while.His name was Alexander Balus and in about 120 BC he married the pharaoh's daughter Cleopatra Thea (not THE Cleopatra!)Allied with the Jewish high priest Jonathan but came unstuck and lost battle of Gaza and killed by Nabataeans after.George Frederick Handel 18th century musical genius wrote an English language oratorio on the subject -saw it several years ago so I am clued up a bit on this topic.Most of the details come from Book of Maccabees and Flavius Josephus.
@@kaloarepo288cool
Hey there Toldinstone, im a big fan of your videos! However, i recently saw a video discussing the sponsor of this video and their affiliation with established titles. You might want to look in to the legitimacy of these companies. Besides that keep up the good work :)
I'm sure he doesn't mind the sponsor money, shameful though for such a knowledgable person to promote such low quality products, scams really. Ginsu knife anyone?
8:58 These realistic portraits from the era of Antiquity never cease to blow me away. They are clearly accurate representations of the actual faces, painted with light and shade, and with real attainment of the illusion of three-dimensionality. These skills were utterly lost in Europe during the Middle Ages.
I always think the same!
Absolutely! It took such a long time for realistic art to culturally recover in the Western world! It's as if society had to start from scratch in the so called 'dark ages'
Any idea how old those portraits actually are? TIS doesn't give us any dates
@@hannibalb8276 at the turn of the millennium give or take 80 years.
I think these are the exact same as displayed but if you look up Egyptian papyrus portraits then you can get a good variety and good idea of wait romans (in that case roman Egyptians) looked like. it fascinates me that the ones in this video don't really look like many Italians
Back in the day, everyone knew who you were because you basically grew up in a settlement of 150 people you're distantly related to, and you knew all of them personally. In ancient cities, there were stratified classes that, in terms of society, acted like small settlements, layered atop one another in relatively the same space. When the population was too dense in place and class, gangs would form. Without mass transit, most people were physically restricted from traveling very far from their homes, and most wouldn't anyway, lest they be seen as a drifter, someone without a society, and murdered when they approached one alien to them (North Sentinel Island is a good example of what could happen).
In short, most people never had to prove their identity because almost everyone was known to everyone else.
For everyone else who would travel, for peaceful purposes such as trade or government business, they still had connections known to them and they would travel with an entourage, never alone, with artifacts representing their status, such as seals and letters of introduction.
Finally, in terms of justice and the courts, let's just say that they weren't necessarily as fair as we in the modern west would want. Indeed, many systems of justice today aren't beholden to anything more than superstition and whim, including the American one (eyewitness testimony is nowhere near as good as our justice system insists it is).
With the rise of DNA and other scientific methods, the justice system has improved from the eyewitness days, as long-imprisoned people are proven innocent. It still isn't of CSI level but that is sci fi. In US terms, the Roman system was about as accurate as the pre-fingerprint days, the latter 1800s, which either says the Romans were top notch at bureaucracy or that all largely agrarian societies were similar and it wasn't until the industrialized and urban age that it changed very much.
Even traveling tradesmen woupd in all likelihood. Travel with male relatives in the business from a young age, introduced as son or nephew hundreds of times before ever doing a trade route on their own.
So when challenged in a settlement, coming in alone. The local shopkeepers would be able to atest that they have met him dozens of times, and could name some of his male relatives.
It amazing to think of how so many of us can individually travel so freely from city to city and state to state and it would have been a death sentence or enslavement for someone in those days.
@@653j521 one would think the number of solved homicides would increase when it has drastically decreased.
@@thehermitman822 no it wouldn't have
Just letting you know that Kamikoto knives are a scam :) It's been covered by other youtubers!
So was the 2020 US election but good luck getting people to see it
@@sym9266 It is easy to get people to see it - with evidence. Countless hearings and audits and 60+ failed court cases later, you still don’t have any. Seek help.
@@censoredopinions was the 2016 election a fraud?
Except they just described products like Nike, Apple etc., overpriced products where alternatives that can provide the same benefits are plentiful.
So, in the Marine Corps. at least 15 years ago, if u lost your wallet, you could go to the Pass and ID building with your Sergeant and one other Marine to swear your identity, and u could get your military ID, because many times Marines keep your important papers back home, like birth certificate and SSN cards.
So ,so what
@@me-iq1vb So, so, so what is so cool is is that with the military and identifying a service member, it’s very similar. Not many people I think have ever seen an official identification when it comes to people swearing that this person is thus person and they got a military ID out of it. I was there to renew mine, and saw this hungover Marine explaining how he lost his ID.
I love your Roman citizen identity card! And the fake Neros, who were real. I just finished another book by Margaret George, "The Confessions of Young Nero," in which she paints him as a sensitive young artist and romantic who it seems, only killed others who were trying to kill him, at least in the beginning. It's the first of two books, and I am not sure I want to read the second, about the "mature" Nero. That might be a bit scary.
Oh boy
“Sensitive young artist and romantic who only killed others who were trying to kill him” hmm that sounds like the mindset of a certain Austrian I’ve heard of….
@Marcus
Hmm...I'm reminded of the Clintons
@@johna.4334 Maggot
@@johna.4334 aces!
I wander if Kamikoto is also a scam, you know, like Established Titles? 🤔
Was it this Chanel where that just came up? Feel like I was reading this in comments on a history video yesterday
@@Mikefantasia22 TiS had a sponsorship with Established Titles, if you asking about it. Shadiversity did a video about kamiko, and many did videos about Established Scam, even years ago.
Sorry for my English.
Definitely is a scam, see Scott Shafer's recent video on the company behind both and the dodgy auction site Deal Dash.
"COUNT YOUR DAYS WELL, DOMITIAN, BECAUSE NERO WILL BE BACK VERY SOON!!!"
*Nostalgic for the Julio-Claudian Dynasty during the time of the false Neros*
One of the Roman chroniclers mentioned that all 3 false Neros looked pretty much like the real deal. His father knew Nero and lived long enough to heard of the impostors, but I'm not sure how he would know the impersonators were good resemblances. Christian chroniclers much later all write about how cruel Nero was and all the evil things he did, but if he was universally hated, why would so many people want to see him back? The idea he fiddled while Rome burned came generations later, one contemporary who lived during the time of the fire mentioned the Emperor was away and lead the relief efforts once he came back. I'll admit he was eccentric and could be cruel if you personally crossed him and probably wasn't a good ruler, but probably not as terrible as his modern reputation among pop historians if so many people tried to fake his identity.
Ooh been waiting for this one, thanks!
Learn something new every time I watch one of these, never knew about all the fake Nero's after his death.
Also, most ancient societies were strongly rooted in ideas of clanship and patronage, for example a citizen being employed by someone who didn't know them and could easily replace them wasn't considered normal, so proving identity was pretty easy. I don't think citizenship came with any real means of proving identity since it was fundamentally a military institution, it seems like it could only confer privileges on the identity you already had.
I love this minutiae! It's what make ancient history so interesting, showing how things have and haven't changed in 2000 years. Excellent work again, sir!
Things have changed for the worse
Today we have grown adult male illegal immigrants pretending to be young children, and getting away with it.
Looked for more videos on the 4 fake neros. I need more info on this
Wow this thought usually crosses my mind once a month and finally a video. Thank you
Nice topic of upload ! Thanks 😊
6:00 So once again, we find out a seemingly modern object like the soldier's "dogtag" already existed in Roman times. The people of any modern era will always see the past with arrogance
I love your videos, your voice and pacing make me feel like i'm watching an old history channel documentary
I never thought about this. But it was important. I was thinking about Paul of Tarsus in particular. Thanks for including the bit about him.
I was literally just having this thought today😂 did you read my mind!!
Although mine was more in the reverse, like, wow we have so much identification that you need for everything today it’s not like when you could just make up a new identity in the past and start over, or could you?
“I’m Sparticus!”
“I’m Brian, and so is my wife”
I like the Roman ID you made!
I really wonder how the pretender Nero's started their ruse.
Because you can't really just show up and declare yourself emperor, you know, just one dude, alone,
you'd have to approach the soldiers with a semblance of wealth and authority, so they probably had to have had a bunch of people acting as a retinue of sorts, like at least a few dozen people.
Really bizarre when you think about it, they must have had a score of people ready to join in on the ruse, before even starting the trick.
Very interesting. Thank you!
Mary Beard tells us a joke from ancient Rome, regarding identity.
I'll try to paraphrase it here with my poor memory:
Two acquaintances encounter each other on a busy Roman street.
G- Melius, is that you? Are you a ghost? How can it be?
M- Yes it is me, standing before you, how can you doubt it?
G- Well the person who told me you're dead is much more reliable than you!
You always have the most unique topics, questions like this that make sense to ask even though I never thought of them before the video.
I kid you not: I was thinking about this last night. Thanks!
Wow, was always thinking how u prove onces identity ever since u made the "timetravel" series. And here u are explaining it to me
Speaking of coins and identity a video on Sponsianus would be much appreciated!
Amazing content
I did not expect a kamikoto ad in this one lol! Maybe some sort of ID theft or VPN with a ID theft spin.
I can't believe I've never asked myself this question before.
Always done very insightfully and very relevant. I enjoy every video and love Roman History. Great job as usual. BTW, ordered the knives for a Christmas present. UPDATE: After reading the comments here, I did some research. Should’ve done so in the first place. My order is being cancelled. Still love “Told In Stone” videos.
Shame the knives are a scam from Hong Kong, please cancel the order if you can. Look for real professional cook's knives. See Scott Shafer's video on this company that also owns other scam companies like Established Titles and Deal Dash.
Told in Stone likes your cash.
Great-looking map, the city markers look like gold and pearl buttons, love them. Maps and graphics are so important to me, I just love good ones and most are awful. No one ever checks the text on them, for one thing, and old maps translated to the digital world usually are completely illegible and useless. That’s the one thing I miss about moving to audiobooks, the accompanying PDF maps are usually terrible, one can’t even read the text labels on them or orient them differently, i.e., landscape vs. portrait.
Does anybody know where to get more information on the Petronia Eusta legal case?
Such an unexpected and intriguing topic, very pleased to learn about it! Dr. Ryan, changing the subject… as we approach Christmas, I was wondering if the festivities of Saturnalia are in any way a base or a source of the way we celebrate Christmas today?
"I'm a Roman."
"My father was a Centurion in the Jerusalem Garrison."
"Naughtius Maximus."
Also "She's called Incontinentia."
So your father was a Woman?
Wow. This was something I always wondered about. I am a big fan of the ancient author, Paul of tarsus’ writings & ideas. He claimed to be a Roman citizen. Always wondered how people would prove that.
Much Love from the Philippines.
Loukios famously parodied the process of Roman identification in his 'Donkey':
'... after I ran towards the governor ~coincidentally he was present at the show~ I told him that I had been poisoned by a Thessalian woman and he arrested me to prove I wasn't a liar...
The governor asked my name and the names of my parents and relations and your place of birth; I sayed: I am Loukios, my brother is Gaios I am a writer of the sciences and miscelanious writings, and he is a tragic poet and a soothsayer. Patras in Achaia is our place of birth. When the governor heard this he sayed: you are my son and a dear guest for I know these matters to be true...
'
... .. . D o you sell the ID on the thumbnail as merch by any chance...? Please say it is so!!
After seeing the thumbnail, I gotta say a huge opportunity was missed by not making the ID card a Roman esque version of McLovin's ID from superbad.
Thanks for sharing, I found this quite interesting. I also noticed how close the name of the woman on the thumbnail is to mine lol
Really interesting
9:20 I recognise the Egyptian lad in the top right corner but what are all the other pictures?
Thank you Garret.
[forgive my ignorance, if I have spelled your name incorrectly]
Thank you for this! This always baffeled me in class about how someome would know.
Fascinating
Very nice
This might be controversial but honestly in demonstrating the legal importance of being able to cite witnesses in daily mundane matters like identification, this also adds significance to the mention of known witnesses by name and location in the Gospels and Acts. Although not good material evidence by scientific standards, according to Roman conventions citing traceable individuals willing to vouch for identities and events was high validity stuff.
There is no way any of the fake Neros could have convinced everyone that they were the late Emperor. No one could set people's hearts on fire like the real Nero 😎🔥
Many states did not Start putting photos on drivers licenses till mid 1980’s.
My first NJ license did not have one . Nor on renewal.
would you consider doing a video on the romans acquaintance with rhinos? it's a fascinating subject
The profile of Nero on that coin looks like Ethan Klein H3H3
"Show your photo ID"
"What's a photo?"
"It's an image taken with an- hmm. Er" 🤔
Cameras were a known thing, but used for art. The film camera was derived from the Camera Obscura.
Garrett, thank you so much! I have always wondered about this. I'm surprised they never thought to issue standardized citizenship cards throughout the Empire. Speaking of the census, and with Christmas approaching, is there evidence of a Roman census taking place in the year (or around the year) of Christ's birth in the Province of Palestine?
"High-quality Japanese steel" what????????????????????
Theodosius, in the Edict of Thessalonica, essentially extended Citizenship to all baptised Nicene Christians. Ergo, Civis Romanus sum!
Such a great topic, I wonder if there were any cases of wrongful convictions
Hey man love the videos! but u should prolly be aware that ur sponsor is owned by the same shady company as established titles and Deal dash. U should do some more research on your sponsors.
It's pretty funny how barely anyone was calling out Kamikoto and Est Titles, when they were both obvious scams, until some random dude made a UA-cam video about it. People say, "Hey you should stop sponsoring, now you know they are a scam." All these creators knew they were taking money from a shady company, especially someone as smart as the good Dr. here.
The people talking about it as a scam didn't care until they saw some video that made them emotional about it. The titles thing was obviously a cheap party favor (seriously, how were you supposed to gain value from it? Obviously it was meaningless), and all advertised knives are cheap but usable.
Interesting.
Usually by a brand or tattoo or someone that would be a witness typically received after military service which guaranteed citizenship.
What a great video! I've often wondered how people proved their identities back in times before modern forms of identification. Even some elderly people in the US have had difficulties arising from never having been issued birth certificates, owing to some poor black people not being born in hospitals.
If by difficulties you mean a lawyer would do it easily or they have to get people to attest to their identity, then yes, but it isn't as it was a generation ago. Perhaps you need to update your information. Elderly people are now born into the ID age (such as a 20th century war, or benefits in the Great Depression) and if the person has ever been employed legitimately as an adult or was a spouse of an employed person who got benefits when the person died, or was on Medicaid or Medicare, that person has a Social Security number to use as supporting evidence for ID. When we went into driver's licenses as legal US not just state ID, people had to come up with several of a variety of evidences of current name and identity, which was a pain for women who had changed names with marriage and divorce, and didn't keep the paperwork so had to send for it. It was no more onerous than getting a passport, and essentially made the license into a passport to Canada. Nowadays, lots of people are born at home to avoid hospital superbugs and an unpleasant aura, not just some poor blacks. That isn't a big deal, legally. As in Roman times, you get people to vouch for you. It's the same for those whose certificates were destroyed in archives, such as happened with the San Francisco quake and fire. Or people who were enslaved and sold or escaped. Or people who were left as a baby or child and adopted. The system is flexible enough to deal with these events without undue trouble.
Judge Julius deserves a round of applause.
Somebody bring back bronze diplomas!
Maybe Established Titles could do it?
Biggus Dickus once had the Emperor himself vouch for him
And as we approach the Christmas season
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Cæsar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
. . . .
3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judæa, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David)
5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
Nice
Yes, that knife really sliced through that pepper with ease! But then again, so does every knife in my kitchen and they are the cheapest shit.
This same knife company also sells the Established Titles garbage. It's a scam company from Hong Kong.
Japanese knives? I thought you sliced your Legio rations open with a gladius!
Good comment! LOL
First 😗 Always love your content!
congrats! reply also for the algorithm : ))
9:25 _"...get me out of here!"_
@4:25, are these swastika??
Did any ancient societies have any equivalent of a passport or identity card? Or even coded letters to release capital from a financial institute or wealthy individual in a town that a visitor hadn't being before to? 🤔
Hey, there's arabic barbarian numbers on that thumbnail id card
Should we assume then it was faked? :D
I do appreciate "Ioanna Ignota".
I think its fine if youtubers get their sponsorship money. Just so everyone's aware, these companies pay A LOT for a sponsor spot. I'm all for taking a scammers money just as long as all the viewers are aware of the scam. Don't buy the knives or sign up for a Scottish title or whatever.
The fake Nero's reminds me of the three False Dmitry's that popped up in the first two decades of the 17th century pretending to be the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible.
Russian princes and Anastasia, as well, in the 20th century.
Do an episode on Christmas
Going to some foreign land thinking you're gonna have this sweet gossip had to be the best job
Wow Kamikoto knives look like they're as sharp as samurai swords!
Kamikoto Identity ❎
Roman Identity ✅
So what happened to Petronia Iusta??
Unfortunately, we don't know
@@toldinstone Shame, I was really invested in her story! I looked a little more into her and it’s fascinating to get an insight into the lives these people had, even if the story is incomplete.
I'm more into the Petronia Justa case than my alimentary pension lawsuit
I'm not so sure that the ability to speak Latin was commonly expected of Roman citizens. The story of Paul about to be whipped, referred to in this video, includes the rather clueless chief captain being astonished that Paul can speak Greek, but no reference is made to the Latin language. (Acts 21:37)
I never really considered it! But I guess photo id is actually a very recent invention. I'd imagine was an age old problem till well into the Victorian era, possibly even later. Well it's still a problem in some parts, isn't it! (Edit: I had to look it up, the photo id was invented in 1876)
Yes, most drivers licenses didnt have photos until the mid 20th century, in the 60s I think.
@@megansfo the UK didn't have photos on their driving licences till 1997.
The photo ID couldn't exist until the 1800s, when someone frustrated with an artistic aid (used to make it easier to make hyper-realistic paintings & drawings) invented the photograph as a substitute. It probably could have been done a fair ways earlier, but there wasn't enough push for it.