@@stannisbaratheon5168 LotR, Memory Sorrow and Thorne, Sun Eater, Drenai Saga, Last War, Cradle... all better stories than anything that smug blimey fuck wrote
Please do not skip the standalones! I know it seems tempting because you might think they’re not important but there’s good world building, lore building, and character building that are all very important. Not to mention best served cold and the heroes are the best books of the series
But the thing is... Jezal changed. He is being... prohibited from doing much outwardly, but he is not the same person. He did change. And sometimes, the outside circumstances don't define who you are as a person. I think the book is also about... even if the circumstances don't change much, you can. You can find good in the situations, no matter how horrible they are (I'm thinking the ending with Glokta and Ardee). Also, even though Jezal cannot do much, he can do something, even if little (I'm thinking of his conversation with Glokta). And let's think about real life, Someone being poor doesn't mean they're lazy or stupid or have no ambition. There are situations in life that keep you from advancing, so I think we can also take it as... they outside circumstances do not define who you are. They don't define you or others. Just because you see others being "successful" (Bayaz) doesn't mean they actually are. They can be horrible people
This is such a moronic word salad. What? Jezal is once again a pawn to be used and discarded, as he was in the army. Bayaz just has to wait for the Queen to get pregnant and he can get rid of Jezal and replace him with a more useful and pliable puppet. Which he does with Orso in the second trilogy. Jezal doesn't have any control. He steps out of line for a second and Bayaz will stomp him like an ant. Idiot
Just to say Austin, if you see this, please please please make your way through the rest of the First Law books. The second trilogy is leaps and bounds above in regard to plot, theme, message and the standalone novels are all great fun. By nature, they are more cyclical and plot-driven.
Actually Austin fails to understand that in reality people don't usually have arc. They usually falls to their basic instincts. Abercrombie is much more realistic in that portrayals.
He is right. Joe Abercrombie only has one trick up his sleeves. It is more apparent in era 2. Era2 is basically the same story, Same ending and same characters. I was more disappointed with the ending of era 2 because it was exactly the same as book 1. Character's journey and development didn't matter cos they ended up where they had stared. Bayaz was mostly in the background and there was no confrontation with him. Will the third generation be able to defeat him or are we gonna see the same story all over again.? The question remains..
I agree with Austin on all points. Felt so betrayed by that third book that I still haven't picked up any other one by the author despite all the praises.
I honestly believe some stories just resonate with you. That’s the beauty of reading, we all have different tastes and need to accept it, not think they are better than the other.
This was a great video. I'm more on Austin's side in my enjoyment of the books -- but I really appreciate the craft of these books and think they did basically perfectly what they were 'trying to do'. I agree with Abercrombie's cynicism, but it depresses me lol. The 'Why So Cynical?' and 'Value of Grit' blog posts on Joe Abercrombie's blog are really interesting reads -- they give some insight into what he was trying to do with the trilogy, and raise some thought-provoking questions. Could lead to some good discussion!
I dont think Jezals story is as pessimistic as people make it out. While he ends up a coward and controlled by Bayaz what would he do otherwise? If he does anything he would be brave but dead and someone worse would probably be in his position. At least he was a person striving to be good forced to do a few imorral things rather than an evil person.
@lucasacosta2104 no I hadn't read them. Knowing that makes me less excited for them since the cynical nature of this series of my least favourite part of it, feels unrealistically pessimistic so I search for optimism in it wherever I can.
@@lucasacosta2104honestly if he’s just that pathetic throughout the entire series I don’t know if I wanna read the rest of the series. I thought they were setting him up for more or at least something but I guess not. It’s not called “Grim Dark” for a reason, I suppose.
Don’t listen to these people Jezal may never grow a pair and stick it to Bayaz but he is a good man who cares about the people and raises a good if unmotivated son, and that comes through in future books.
I think I loved the ending because I saw the ending of book 2 as very hopeful. Bayaz not finding the seed was a good thing because he clearly was not going to do any good with it. Jezal was improving, Glocta let Eider go Logan and Ferro got together and it was the high point in the series.
There were moments in previous videos where I wondered if Richard was the one with good taste, or Austin the one with bad taste. Now i know it's the latter 😉 One thing I really liked, which you touched upon on a couple of occasions but didn't specifically mention, was that most-if not all-characters who accepted who they are had a satisfying ending (for themselves).
I'm big Abercrombie fan and I like to listen to Austin complaining about it. It's same excitement I get while listening to flat earthers explaining their point of view.
Like Austin i was disappointed with the ending since i felt like it was so brutal with not much hope. But as I've sat with the story it has really grown on me. Bookborn made a great video about the "Anti Hero Journey" that helped me think about it. Its more a commentary on how change is difficult and your behaviours have to be constant rather than brief moments of good to actually be a better person (like so many of the characters want to be). As ive sat on the story its really grown on me and i hope it will for Austin as well. That being said comparing it to season 8 of Game of Thrones is so harsh!! Last argument of kings didn't make me retrospectively wish i hadnt seen all that came before it
I can understand where Austin is coming from even though I completely disagree. Especially when it comes to the characters. The way you spoke is the way I feel about stormlight characters. 5k pages of portraying the same emotion with subtle growth besides the fact they become more competent in their abilities/powers.
I’m with Austin overall. Finishing this book left me so incredibly angry. Joe takes three well written and engrossing books to play one very mean trick on everyone: here, look at these fucked up weirdos, don’t you love them? Aren’t they funny? Aren’t they trying to be better? Fuck you, they suck and always did. It’s absolutely brilliant, but I just feel so disappointed by it. Though I recently went back and listened to the Blade Itself and holy crap it’s all there. My opinion on plot was similar to austin, but after rereading book 1, it’s so clear that Joe knew what he was doing since the beginning. Every time Logan says “you’ve got to be realistic about these things” it’s such clear self-justification. Or the hints that Jezal is a nobody, or Bayaz ultimate betrayal of all the laws. Somehow it’s so perfectly done. 4.5/5, I hate it.
I recently found you guys and am really enjoying all your videos! Today I came across the video you did with Bookborn from about a year ago, and it was great. Wanted to stop by and recommend The Green Mile to Richard, if you still have not read any Stephen King. Its not really like most of his other books. One of my favorite books I've ever read
I think Glokta wanted to see everyone who turned their back on him pay and see how fickle and shallow the world is and what he got was catharsis from his old friend Collom West, but then he dies…Glokta needed a friend even though he was mean and bitter and kept everyone at an arms length. Glokta’s is a tale of constant betrayal
I forgot how controversial this ending was, since I loved it immediately. I wonder if Austin gives it more time, or as he goes through the other books he will appreciate what was done here more. It might just have to sit with you for a while longer :) or maybe you'll just always be wrong...
I also didn't like the ending when I read it. I was confused and was expecting more revelations with Khalul and the world, that we were going to see him or something... and we didn't. I was disappointed too, but loved the whole trilogy. But even then, this was a great episode. I think it speaks volumes about how good your discussions are that I came away from this understanding the trilogy better AND even the ending. It speaks volumes even with Austin's subpar rating. So great work boys! Spoilers: Once you guys talked about Bayaz and how everything was about him and his stupid grudge, that that was what every character's purpose ultimately led to, I understood it. I love the trilogy even more cause of you guys.
I loved the first 3, but was disappointed (as I didn’t understand grimdark). I didn’t get Abercrombie until The Heroes (5). That book blew me away. Just finished Age of Madness, and it’s the best character work I’ve ever seen. KEEP GOING
Loving this video. Although Austin is getting some pushback he does defend his positions really well. I dont agree but he does. The thesis about the ending that there is no hope i disagree with. Hope is the expectation of something happening but there ia no promise of the fulfilment of that promise. I grew up experiencing two dictstorships. The unachievable hope of something that keeps people going. Amongst all the sinisterism, there is hope in Glokta's feelings towards West, his actions towards Ardee, his conversation with Jazel at the end about something to do in the future. There is hope in Jazel's unhappiness with being contolled, there hope in his interest in the rebuild. At a national level, the union won both wars even with all the curruption there is hope for the common person in that. So i really found it thought provoking in the sense a western fantasy story had me connected. The evil is not as easy to defeat with just a heroe's story but it is an experience of banging your head againts the wall and fail against the establishment but as humans we continue to fight with a mixture of our personal motivations and the willingness to survive.
I’m 100% sure Austin will love the second trilogy. Best Served Cold and The Heroes are great too. The only book I dind’t like of the First Law was Red Country
Reading book three I thought there was no way it would end the same as the second book to further subvert expectations. The end made me think, of course I was an optimistic idiot. I felt like I could almost hear him laughing at me, which I enjoyed.
Its just funny how we can bascily have the same thought then feel differently about it. I hope you all go over the next few books. I would be very interested in both of your opinions on Best Served Cold. I am half way through The Heroes.
It’s so weird, I found book 1 to not be very good, but I enjoyed book 2 and thought book 3 was way better than the two before. So probably 3/5 for the first two and 5/5 for the last
I know I am in the minority here but I also disliked this trilogy. From chapter one the Wizard was obviously a bad guy. He took every chance to insult or demean his student but sucked off Logan every chance he got. He cheated, lied and went into a rage every time he did not get his way. I read on, waiting for his downfall only for him to win in the end and ruin everyone’s lives in the process. Thats to say, I was left very disappointed in the end. 😞
I think in regards to the message of the books, I honestly think its a little bit of a British thing. Americans are very optimistic and always somewhat have the American dream in the back of their mind, England on the other hand and maybe the rest of Britain has a very pessimistic or realistic approach to life.
41:55 Completely agree. The number of opportunities Logen alone had to change, to go on a different path, is insane, and he basically avoided all of them and went right back to where he was, because he "never had any choices."
Do you not see this mirrored in real life? How many criminals say they'll change to recommit crimes down the road? How many alcoholics and drug addicts say they will get clean to relapse? How many people say they'll go back to school or start hitting the gym and never do? Real life is less people make dramatic change than do. Both character types are valid but Joe is more interested in people struggling to change but due to internal strife, history, and the circumstances around them lead them to get stuck in their ways. If it's fine to have hundreds of characters who overcome their shortcomings and become the best version of themselves then a few books where things go in the other direction should work as well. Not saying anyone has to enjoy but this is the reason most people are fans of the series. Grey characters who don't get a fairytale.
The third book killed the love I had for half of the characters. It amazes me people actually like it. The story gets So bad, to the detriment of most characters. Most of what happens and what they do makes no sense.
Na I’m sorry, even if you didn’t like the ending giving this a 2.5 is an absolute travesty. The quality of the writing, characters, fight scenes and dialogue alone make this a classic. It’s one of the all time great fantasy books, easily.
Don’t worry Richard. You still have one Austin who, 1. Is of Italian descent. 2. Has been compared to a chipmunk 3. Loves Red Rising. And, most importantly, Thinks Last Argument of Kings is one of the most satisfying endings to a trilogy he’s ever read. Congratulations Austin, you made me side with Richard. I need to take a shower to wash away this betrayal.
@@2ToRamble Yes, yes, much like how you’ll come around and say these words with vigor and actually mean them: “Name of The Wind is better than Golden Son.” In all seriousness though, your opinion is your opinion no matter how much I disagree with it. I can understand you were hoping for a happier/more uplifting ending, but for me personally, it was so satisfying because of how unsatisfying things went in certain areas. That’s just me, though. Love listening to this podcast at work, so keep it up. I’m hoping to read Sword of Kaigen soon so I can watch the video you guys made on that.
Are people actually enjoying Jezal’s showcase this book and whatever follows? Or are they just looking at it from a story standpoint, which it would make much more sense that way.
I have complicated feelings about the trilogy as a whole now that it’s done. Truly some of the best characters a reader could ask for by being shitty fuck ups in a believable way. The what of it feels a bit hollow. I think Bayaz ending up being more Palpatine and less Gandalf really makes you stop and consider how the precedent of wizards pulling up and recruiting nobodies to fuck shit up should give more pause than it normally does. Like if Merlin didn’t build Arthur up would things have gotten as cocked up as they did if there had never been a Camelot?
This trilogy feels nihilistic for sure. I think that is the issue that people had with this book. A distinction has to be made, being "Grim Dark" , "pessimistic", or cynical is different from being nihilistic. You can enjoy dark stories but dislike nihilistic work, which is what this trilogy seems to be at least.
I’m currently reading The Wisdom of Crowds so this may change but the last argument of kings has been my favorite in the whole series including AOM trilogy and the standalones to this point. I was a little taken aback by the abruptness of the ending of LAOK but after I took some time to think on it I realized how I actually really loved how it ended. I would say Ferro ending was the only one that I was a little bit sour grapes on.
I’m more and more convinced that Austin only likes red rising and is not capable of liking anything else because Last Argument of Kings is the best of the trilogy and even if you argue against that, giving it such a low review seems disingenuous to me
I was afraid that the book would end with a ‘happily ever after,’ but it ended the way it did, and I enjoyed it so much. There are no purely good people in this book; they all made some bad choices, even though each character had a chance for a better future. In the end, everyone got what they deserved.
I think it's a good book - both as a novel and as a way to end the trilogy. I rated it pretty high. Yet, as I finished reading it, I was a little disappointed. So I guess... thank you for the representation Austin?
For me, the First Law was a complete disappointment. My expectations going in to it were that it was as good if not better than A Song of Ice and Fire as that's how fans of the First Law sold it to me. Well, my expectations were definitely not met. I'd give it a 2/5
i'm liking this video only for richard. my patron money goes only to him this month
100% Austin has been making me reconsider a lot of things
😂
idk how austin can come out here
and say something so relatable one episode, and then do this… is it my brain or my heart that hurts more?
Austin is completely right. Sorry. Your taste is just shit.
Austin is right. Sorry you have poor taste.
@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian what do you like?
@@stannisbaratheon5168 LotR, Memory Sorrow and Thorne, Sun Eater, Drenai Saga, Last War, Cradle... all better stories than anything that smug blimey fuck wrote
@@stannisbaratheon5168 better stories. Lotr, Sun Eater, Osten Ard, Drenai
that 2.5 overall rating made me understand the daily pain that Glokta goes through 😂
😂
Truly, 2ToRamble videos are the Richards we endure between Austins
@@heinricholivier2655 😂😂😂
Austin’s opinion on this book has inadvertently convinced me not to read Red Rising.
😭😭😭
I want to like the video for Richard and dislike it for Austin
We have a cheat code - constantly make one of us more likeable in a video and we can never lose lol
Please do not skip the standalones! I know it seems tempting because you might think they’re not important but there’s good world building, lore building, and character building that are all very important. Not to mention best served cold and the heroes are the best books of the series
But the thing is... Jezal changed. He is being... prohibited from doing much outwardly, but he is not the same person. He did change. And sometimes, the outside circumstances don't define who you are as a person. I think the book is also about... even if the circumstances don't change much, you can. You can find good in the situations, no matter how horrible they are (I'm thinking the ending with Glokta and Ardee). Also, even though Jezal cannot do much, he can do something, even if little (I'm thinking of his conversation with Glokta).
And let's think about real life, Someone being poor doesn't mean they're lazy or stupid or have no ambition. There are situations in life that keep you from advancing, so I think we can also take it as... they outside circumstances do not define who you are. They don't define you or others. Just because you see others being "successful" (Bayaz) doesn't mean they actually are. They can be horrible people
This is such a moronic word salad. What? Jezal is once again a pawn to be used and discarded, as he was in the army. Bayaz just has to wait for the Queen to get pregnant and he can get rid of Jezal and replace him with a more useful and pliable puppet. Which he does with Orso in the second trilogy. Jezal doesn't have any control. He steps out of line for a second and Bayaz will stomp him like an ant. Idiot
Austin is the greatest book reviewer of all time.
I dont know if this is sarcastic, but Im glad I found the needle in the haystack of this comment section 😁😂
@@2ToRamble No, finally someone else who recognizes The First Law for the disappointment that it is and Red Rising for the work of art that it is.
I cannot believe it. Absolutely shocked Austin. How could you!!! 🤣
Just to say Austin, if you see this, please please please make your way through the rest of the First Law books. The second trilogy is leaps and bounds above in regard to plot, theme, message and the standalone novels are all great fun. By nature, they are more cyclical and plot-driven.
@@angussinclair1344 idiot
Actually Austin fails to understand that in reality people don't usually have arc. They usually falls to their basic instincts. Abercrombie is much more realistic in that portrayals.
He is right. Joe Abercrombie only has one trick up his sleeves. It is more apparent in era 2. Era2 is basically the same story, Same ending and same characters.
I was more disappointed with the ending of era 2 because it was exactly the same as book 1. Character's journey and development didn't matter cos they ended up where they had stared.
Bayaz was mostly in the background and there was no confrontation with him.
Will the third generation be able to defeat him or are we gonna see the same story all over again.? The question remains..
Grimdark fanboy try to understand human beings beyond its Neo-Marxist collegw professor's lectures challenge: Impossible
Austin boutta become “Austin One Finger”.
😂
Austin is basically saying "thank you for watching and dont forget to unsubscribe"
Lmaooo
This is a great example of how opinions can be wrong.
Yes. Hundreds of idiots are wrong.
sometimes people change, sometimes they don't, more often than not, they change back.
Austin L Richard W
Maybe Richard needs another partner for fine works of art like this... Austin can stay for Red Rising discussions
I agree with Austin on all points. Felt so betrayed by that third book that I still haven't picked up any other one by the author despite all the praises.
🤝
Say something about Austin, say he has bad takes.
Edited to avoid spoilers
I’m not going to dislike the video because I love the podcast, but Austin really had me close I swear with that rating
This is the first time I disagree with Austin 😂 Last Argument of Kings is one of the best fantasy books I’ve read 🤷🏽
Hey there always has to be a first time that youre incorrect 😂 (still gonna continue with the series, hoping to get more out of future ones)
I read the first and second books a year and a half ago. Ironically, you've sold me on reading the third one through this podcast.
I honestly believe some stories just resonate with you. That’s the beauty of reading, we all have different tastes and need to accept it, not think they are better than the other.
1:11 This makes me think Austin was the type of kid to remind the teacher the class had homework due 😅
What a betrayal by Austin, I knew he was sus when he didnt LOVE Wheel of Time, but this is the last straw....
Austin didn't know the genre he was reading.
👀
Austin, my guy, what the hell xD
Had to do it 😮💨
An objectively correct opinion.
This was a great video. I'm more on Austin's side in my enjoyment of the books -- but I really appreciate the craft of these books and think they did basically perfectly what they were 'trying to do'. I agree with Abercrombie's cynicism, but it depresses me lol.
The 'Why So Cynical?' and 'Value of Grit' blog posts on Joe Abercrombie's blog are really interesting reads -- they give some insight into what he was trying to do with the trilogy, and raise some thought-provoking questions. Could lead to some good discussion!
Thats an awesome idea! Thank you!!
"Doesn't everything suck" is not a worthwhile question.
I dont think Jezals story is as pessimistic as people make it out. While he ends up a coward and controlled by Bayaz what would he do otherwise? If he does anything he would be brave but dead and someone worse would probably be in his position. At least he was a person striving to be good forced to do a few imorral things rather than an evil person.
Have you read Best Served Cold and Age of Madness? Jezal is a punch bag during the whole series. Better be dead.
@lucasacosta2104 no I hadn't read them. Knowing that makes me less excited for them since the cynical nature of this series of my least favourite part of it, feels unrealistically pessimistic so I search for optimism in it wherever I can.
@@lucasacosta2104honestly if he’s just that pathetic throughout the entire series I don’t know if I wanna read the rest of the series. I thought they were setting him up for more or at least something but I guess not.
It’s not called “Grim Dark” for a reason, I suppose.
Don’t listen to these people Jezal may never grow a pair and stick it to Bayaz but he is a good man who cares about the people and raises a good if unmotivated son, and that comes through in future books.
Why are you defending the series when you disliked its crucial component?
I think I loved the ending because I saw the ending of book 2 as very hopeful. Bayaz not finding the seed was a good thing because he clearly was not going to do any good with it. Jezal was improving, Glocta let Eider go Logan and Ferro got together and it was the high point in the series.
Love your guys channel! I need more people on Goodreads that enjoy these types of books.
Thankyou!!
I agree with you Austin! Glad to hear your opinion. Still trying to recover from you guys not liking iron gold, but one step at a time lol
Heyyy! There we go!
There were moments in previous videos where I wondered if Richard was the one with good taste, or Austin the one with bad taste. Now i know it's the latter 😉
One thing I really liked, which you touched upon on a couple of occasions but didn't specifically mention, was that most-if not all-characters who accepted who they are had a satisfying ending (for themselves).
I'm big Abercrombie fan and I like to listen to Austin complaining about it. It's same excitement I get while listening to flat earthers explaining their point of view.
😭😭
So you're a shitty human being?
let's see how many brain cells i lose watching this....
but yes, Rich, I agree Jezal would be delicious...
...
...
his journey of course
Horny jail
Wisdom of the crowd. Heh. Hehehhhe
Like Austin i was disappointed with the ending since i felt like it was so brutal with not much hope. But as I've sat with the story it has really grown on me. Bookborn made a great video about the "Anti Hero Journey" that helped me think about it. Its more a commentary on how change is difficult and your behaviours have to be constant rather than brief moments of good to actually be a better person (like so many of the characters want to be). As ive sat on the story its really grown on me and i hope it will for Austin as well.
That being said comparing it to season 8 of Game of Thrones is so harsh!! Last argument of kings didn't make me retrospectively wish i hadnt seen all that came before it
I can understand where Austin is coming from even though I completely disagree. Especially when it comes to the characters. The way you spoke is the way I feel about stormlight characters. 5k pages of portraying the same emotion with subtle growth besides the fact they become more competent in their abilities/powers.
I’m with Austin overall. Finishing this book left me so incredibly angry. Joe takes three well written and engrossing books to play one very mean trick on everyone: here, look at these fucked up weirdos, don’t you love them? Aren’t they funny? Aren’t they trying to be better? Fuck you, they suck and always did.
It’s absolutely brilliant, but I just feel so disappointed by it.
Though I recently went back and listened to the Blade Itself and holy crap it’s all there. My opinion on plot was similar to austin, but after rereading book 1, it’s so clear that Joe knew what he was doing since the beginning.
Every time Logan says “you’ve got to be realistic about these things” it’s such clear self-justification. Or the hints that Jezal is a nobody, or Bayaz ultimate betrayal of all the laws. Somehow it’s so perfectly done.
4.5/5, I hate it.
That’s a great comment, I would say it’s an incredible book but would never be a favorite book
This is an awesome review lol
I recently found you guys and am really enjoying all your videos!
Today I came across the video you did with Bookborn from about a year ago, and it was great. Wanted to stop by and recommend The Green Mile to Richard, if you still have not read any Stephen King. Its not really like most of his other books. One of my favorite books I've ever read
Didn't expect Austin to become a twist villain with no redeemable qualities in first law review series
Can't wait for you two to get into the standalones, and especially the Age of Madness
See I love the first law and the stand-alones. Besides red country it’s kinda mid but i really besides book 2 did not love the age of madness trilogy
I think the characters in the original trilogy are the best you’ll find anywhere, but the rest of the First Law books are much more well-rounded.
How on Rarth did this and Before They Are Hanged reviews come out so perfectly THE DAY I finished both books. Are you two sorcerers???
Call us Bayaz. Our informants and hold over the world knows all 🤌
My favourite scene that floored me was wen Glokta meets West for the last time.
I think Glokta wanted to see everyone who turned their back on him pay and see how fickle and shallow the world is and what he got was catharsis from his old friend Collom West, but then he dies…Glokta needed a friend even though he was mean and bitter and kept everyone at an arms length. Glokta’s is a tale of constant betrayal
I forgot how controversial this ending was, since I loved it immediately. I wonder if Austin gives it more time, or as he goes through the other books he will appreciate what was done here more. It might just have to sit with you for a while longer :) or maybe you'll just always be wrong...
😁
I also didn't like the ending when I read it. I was confused and was expecting more revelations with Khalul and the world, that we were going to see him or something... and we didn't. I was disappointed too, but loved the whole trilogy.
But even then, this was a great episode. I think it speaks volumes about how good your discussions are that I came away from this understanding the trilogy better AND even the ending. It speaks volumes even with Austin's subpar rating. So great work boys!
Spoilers:
Once you guys talked about Bayaz and how everything was about him and his stupid grudge, that that was what every character's purpose ultimately led to, I understood it. I love the trilogy even more cause of you guys.
Super glad you got so much out of our review, means a lot!!
Hey, I know this isn’t about First Law at all lol but are you going to do a Stranger Things 5 episode when the season comes out?
I loved the first 3, but was disappointed (as I didn’t understand grimdark). I didn’t get Abercrombie until The Heroes (5). That book blew me away. Just finished Age of Madness, and it’s the best character work I’ve ever seen. KEEP GOING
Loving this video. Although Austin is getting some pushback he does defend his positions really well. I dont agree but he does. The thesis about the ending that there is no hope i disagree with. Hope is the expectation of something happening but there ia no promise of the fulfilment of that promise.
I grew up experiencing two dictstorships. The unachievable hope of something that keeps people going. Amongst all the sinisterism, there is hope in Glokta's feelings towards West, his actions towards Ardee, his conversation with Jazel at the end about something to do in the future. There is hope in Jazel's unhappiness with being contolled, there hope in his interest in the rebuild. At a national level, the union won both wars even with all the curruption there is hope for the common person in that.
So i really found it thought provoking in the sense a western fantasy story had me connected. The evil is not as easy to defeat with just a heroe's story but it is an experience of banging your head againts the wall and fail against the establishment but as humans we continue to fight with a mixture of our personal motivations and the willingness to survive.
Appreciate this and totally get where youre coming from!
I’m 100% sure Austin will love the second trilogy.
Best Served Cold and The Heroes are great too. The only book I dind’t like of the First Law was Red Country
Best served cold is a masterpiece
5:55 little Age of Madness reference, I like it
5:57 my favorite is actually BTAH
2.5??????? 😵💫😵💫
Just so everyone knows ... When Austin wakes up one day and he is "Austin No-fingers" .... I was busy that day 🙂🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Love you guys! Even in times like this
TAXI DRIVER SUCKS ASS!?
Im sorry 😭😂
Need an “I was floored” Richard tee in the next merch drop
Ah, yes... The world of Ottawa and how Bayaz formed it
Reading book three I thought there was no way it would end the same as the second book to further subvert expectations. The end made me think, of course I was an optimistic idiot. I felt like I could almost hear him laughing at me, which I enjoyed.
Thats a fun way of looking at it
Its just funny how we can bascily have the same thought then feel differently about it. I hope you all go over the next few books. I would be very interested in both of your opinions on Best Served Cold. I am half way through The Heroes.
It’s so weird, I found book 1 to not be very good, but I enjoyed book 2 and thought book 3 was way better than the two before. So probably 3/5 for the first two and 5/5 for the last
I know I am in the minority here but I also disliked this trilogy. From chapter one the Wizard was obviously a bad guy. He took every chance to insult or demean his student but sucked off Logan every chance he got. He cheated, lied and went into a rage every time he did not get his way. I read on, waiting for his downfall only for him to win in the end and ruin everyone’s lives in the process. Thats to say, I was left very disappointed in the end. 😞
oh are you reading "Best Served Cold" next? :D That one is truly amazing.
I think in regards to the message of the books, I honestly think its a little bit of a British thing. Americans are very optimistic and always somewhat have the American dream in the back of their mind, England on the other hand and maybe the rest of Britain has a very pessimistic or realistic approach to life.
41:55 Completely agree. The number of opportunities Logen alone had to change, to go on a different path, is insane, and he basically avoided all of them and went right back to where he was, because he "never had any choices."
Do you not see this mirrored in real life?
How many criminals say they'll change to recommit crimes down the road?
How many alcoholics and drug addicts say they will get clean to relapse?
How many people say they'll go back to school or start hitting the gym and never do?
Real life is less people make dramatic change than do. Both character types are valid but Joe is more interested in people struggling to change but due to internal strife, history, and the circumstances around them lead them to get stuck in their ways.
If it's fine to have hundreds of characters who overcome their shortcomings and become the best version of themselves then a few books where things go in the other direction should work as well.
Not saying anyone has to enjoy but this is the reason most people are fans of the series. Grey characters who don't get a fairytale.
The third book killed the love I had for half of the characters. It amazes me people actually like it. The story gets So bad, to the detriment of most characters. Most of what happens and what they do makes no sense.
24:22 You are gonna love Kingdoms of Death
What panel will you guys be on at Dragonsteel?
We will be on 2 - Unique Magic Systems & the Worldbuilding panel. We’ll announce everything on a video coming up!
Glokkta and Ardee are so cute together
I loved the Trilogy, just hated the ending. It doesn't take away from the awesome journey though. Sometimes endings just shit the bed.
it’s been said 100 times but you deserve it again Austin. FOR SHAME!
SHAME!! (Austin here.)
Na I’m sorry, even if you didn’t like the ending giving this a 2.5 is an absolute travesty. The quality of the writing, characters, fight scenes and dialogue alone make this a classic. It’s one of the all time great fantasy books, easily.
The characters and prose are my highest categories definitely - but overall wanted to reflect how I felt about the book
Don’t worry Richard. You still have one Austin who,
1. Is of Italian descent.
2. Has been compared to a chipmunk
3. Loves Red Rising.
And, most importantly,
Thinks Last Argument of Kings is one of the most satisfying endings to a trilogy he’s ever read.
Congratulations Austin, you made me side with Richard. I need to take a shower to wash away this betrayal.
Dont worry you’ll come around and see the light 😮💨
@@2ToRamble Yes, yes, much like how you’ll come around and say these words with vigor and actually mean them:
“Name of The Wind is better than Golden Son.”
In all seriousness though, your opinion is your opinion no matter how much I disagree with it. I can understand you were hoping for a happier/more uplifting ending, but for me personally, it was so satisfying because of how unsatisfying things went in certain areas.
That’s just me, though. Love listening to this podcast at work, so keep it up. I’m hoping to read Sword of Kaigen soon so I can watch the video you guys made on that.
@@Rontay731 ooo hope you love Kaigen - it is one of my all time favorites!
It’s weird how books hit people differently. The Blade Itself was my least favorite, absolutely loved the final two books.
2.5 out of 5 stars is an insane take
Had to do it to em
Gotta read Red Country and Heroes now 😂
How did Logan not kill a friend before this book? Was it explained?
Are people actually enjoying Jezal’s showcase this book and whatever follows? Or are they just looking at it from a story standpoint, which it would make much more sense that way.
I have complicated feelings about the trilogy as a whole now that it’s done. Truly some of the best characters a reader could ask for by being shitty fuck ups in a believable way. The what of it feels a bit hollow. I think Bayaz ending up being more Palpatine and less Gandalf really makes you stop and consider how the precedent of wizards pulling up and recruiting nobodies to fuck shit up should give more pause than it normally does.
Like if Merlin didn’t build Arthur up would things have gotten as cocked up as they did if there had never been a Camelot?
Damn bro Austin got his heart broken.
This trilogy feels nihilistic for sure. I think that is the issue that people had with this book. A distinction has to be made, being "Grim Dark" , "pessimistic", or cynical is different from being nihilistic. You can enjoy dark stories but dislike nihilistic work, which is what this trilogy seems to be at least.
Say one thing about the first law trilogy say it was a fine time.
No.
Austin would be murdered so fast in this world with his "There's Light and There's Hope" propaganda
43:10 who is going to tell them? :D
I’m currently reading The Wisdom of Crowds so this may change but the last argument of kings has been my favorite in the whole series including AOM trilogy and the standalones to this point. I was a little taken aback by the abruptness of the ending of LAOK but after I took some time to think on it I realized how I actually really loved how it ended. I would say Ferro ending was the only one that I was a little bit sour grapes on.
Richard... nobody likes Salt vinegar chips.
(I must support richard on this unfortunately)
The integrity of this channel has been compromised 😂
😂😂
This is such blasphemy from Austin that I had to comment for the first time to voice how crazy his take is. IT WAS ALL SOO BAD‼️‼️‼️‼️
I honestly don’t understand lol. At this point I think he’s just playing the contrarian. There is just no way
I usually agree with Austin and disagree with Rich but not this time! #teamrich
Join me next time, Ill allow the disagreement this ONCE and once only 😮💨
It would be one thing if Austin didn't like the whole trilogy... but you loved the first two and hated this???? how awful!!! liked and subscribed.
😂
2.5! What a joke 🤣
This book is a joke.
@@AndrewFrancisIlyrianyou’re on your own Andrew, pipe down.
i love the trilogy, felt a bit deflated at the ending but it didnt ruin it for me and closed the last book eager to continue the sequels
Viewers best first line contest?
We have done that before!
I thought u have only done it from real books. Not something like you did with the world building competition
@@kingdonsobek we did that once way back, but could do another
Sorry I must have missed that one. Thx for replying lol
@@kingdonsobek no sweat!
Y'all should just rename this channel "Austin hates everything"
I’m more and more convinced that Austin only likes red rising and is not capable of liking anything else because Last Argument of Kings is the best of the trilogy and even if you argue against that, giving it such a low review seems disingenuous to me
Oof! Maybe we agree on other books, seems like we dont here
@@2ToRamble we do agree that red rising is good, it’s just not the best thing ever lol
@@IzzyZil20 fair enough!
Banger start to a Monday!
😁😁
Austin's the only one getting my like.
I was afraid that the book would end with a ‘happily ever after,’ but it ended the way it did, and I enjoyed it so much. There are no purely good people in this book; they all made some bad choices, even though each character had a chance for a better future. In the end, everyone got what they deserved.
Austin, I always wanted to know if you listened to audiobooks while you WORK OUT THOSE INSANE MUSCLES??
😂😂
I think it's a good book - both as a novel and as a way to end the trilogy. I rated it pretty high. Yet, as I finished reading it, I was a little disappointed. So I guess... thank you for the representation Austin?
I’ll take it!!
For me, the First Law was a complete disappointment. My expectations going in to it were that it was as good if not better than A Song of Ice and Fire as that's how fans of the First Law sold it to me. Well, my expectations were definitely not met. I'd give it a 2/5
@@danielrood264 you are a legend