Thank you for this video. You helped me identify the clanking sound coming from the front wheel area. Guess I'll have to learn how to upgrade this bike and make the preventative alterations you've incorporated before I run into problems. This information will help me.
I just did the same upgrade to the brakes on My Freesky Himalaya after watching this video. I figure it adds more than a third more brake torque, theoretically. Maybe my brakes won't overheat as much so I won't have to keep bleeding the lines. Thanks.
Links to the parts I used are below. Keep in mind that while I am happy with the outcome your mileage may vary. I have put more miles on smooth trails and rocky trails since I posted this and I am still happy. Disclosure: Some of the updated links below are affiliate links. This means that, at zero cost to you, I will earn an affiliate commission if you click through the link and finalize a purchase. The bike amzn.to/3QvCnyD Himalo Fork amzn.to/3SvGLQP Rear shock - choose the 165mm amzn.to/3QNVO7h Brake rotors 203mm front (sliver-A , 203MM) and 180mm rear (sliver-A , 180MM). These are the sizes and style I bought but you can choose the size and styles. You will have to buy the correct adapters below. 180mm (rear): amzn.to/3FOYA60 203mm (front): amzn.to/3tVgm4z Pay attention to the size and style of the adapters. You will need to choose the same if you go with 203mm front and 180mm rear rotors. Rear brake caliper adapter - IS Rear 180mm-B: amzn.to/47ihXQr Front brake caliper adapter - PM Front/Rear 203mm-A: amzn.to/3swmKPn
Hello I am so glad I found your video !!! I too packed my controller with foam and used silicone on the motor cable by the crank and the wiring up top as well , I replaced brakes to bucklos 203 and rear d&m shock like you but was just wondering because I want to upgrade my front dual crown suspension do you have a link for it or the size and was wondering did you just replace the suspension tubes because I so much want to get rid of the factory non responsive suspension like you any help is appreciated much thanks from Buffalo NY, ps after 350 miles on mine I thought I ordered the right size hybrid rear hub motor gears to upgrade them but they weren't the correct size when they came so I inspected them they were perfect and just repacted the hub with mobil 1 synthetic grease and used rtv to make a water tight seal and I don't think I'll have to do anything with it for quit awhile!! The think that I heard that hurts the gears is when you go off a curb or jump and if you don't let off the throttle in the air on landing the initial force could potentially strip them . Just my two cents any help with the front suspension would be greatly appreciated thank you!
Great info thanks for responding! I'll give the hub some love next. I replaced the entire front fork after measuring it up to find a suitable replacement. I bought everything from Amazon, the fork I opted for is rb.gy/p02vp. These off brand forks have mixed reviews but so far it is working well for me. If it ends up failing I will probably fork out the cash for a Wren inverted fork. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options for 135mm axles.
Additional Upgrades. I have made some changes since I put out this video. I switched out the Himalo fork for a Manitou Mastodon Pro STD which is a single crown fork and has a tapered head tube (1-1/8" top, 1-1/2" bottom) and therefore required a new headset (44mm top, 56mm bottom outside diameter bearings) and a new wheel (15mm through axle). The stock fork has a straight head tube. The new headset has sealed bearings and is an improvement over the stock headset. I adjusted the travel on the Mastodon to 140mm which, in my opinion, improves the headset angle as it is about an inch longer (axle to crown) than the stock fork and 3/4 inches longer than the Himalo. The headset angle is about 2 degrees slacker than stock and about one degree slacker than the Himalo. I would have kept the Himalo but I was having binding issues, it wouldn't rebound reliably when fully compressed while braking down steep descents. I also couldn't get the sag set up because it took more than my weight to get it to move from the top. It did handle the rough stuff quite well though. I don't know if this is an issue with the fork in general or if I got a lemon. I also installed Tannus Armour tire inserts and so far I am very happy with them. I pulled a few thorns out of my tires and no flats. Finally, I installed a narrower, lighter seat that works better for the type of riding I am doing. Future upgrades: - Dropper post - 36T chain ring/152mm crank arms (slower top speed but better for clearance in the rocks) - Pedals Disclosure: Some of the links below are affiliate links. This means that, at zero cost to you, I will earn an affiliate commission if you click through the link and finalize a purchase. Headset: amzn.to/3smb95s The new fork (Pro STD): Gen 2 sold out Tannus Tire Armour: amzn.to/3MwliDy
Hi, Great info. I agree need, a better front fork to start. Did the fork you left a link to work ok with the tappered head tube? Looks like a straight / non tapered head tube. Is there an adapter? Or does the bike accept a straight head tube? Just want to confirm before purchasing. Thanks will be upgrading the brakes as well. Would like to find a solution for chain slap (found that 7th gear increases the frequency of the chain jumping off the cassette on rough terrain).
For some reason I thought that the Freesky had a straight fork but was surprised that it wasn't when I took it out. Luckily, the fork I linked has a taper even though it is not obvious in the pictures. The lower bearing is not as tight as it was with the stock fork but it is tight enough that there isn't any play. I ordered some chainstay protectors (www.amazon.com/dp/B07S9T2BJY?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) to stop the abuse to my paint though the protector is already showing signs of abuse. I may have to go with something a bit more sturdy next time. Regarding the fork. I started experiencing stiction to the point of binding when applying the front brake on rough stuff. I was able to solve it by servicing the fork and applying a generous amount of grease on the inside of the lowers which were completely dry on the dampener side and had a minimal amount of grease/oil on the air spring side. The process I followed is ua-cam.com/video/8G2v9qSKils/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared.
Do you happen to know the actual weight of this bike? Their website states 80 lbs. with battery. Based on reviews I've read, this might be an understatement. My rack has a weight limit of 70 lbs. per bike (my wife has a Rocky, too.) If the 80 lbs. is accurate, I should be good with the battery and seat removed. I did add the full fenders and rear rack - probably + 5 lbs.) But I'm right at the limit. If the bike actually weighs 85-88 lbs., as others have said, I've got a math problem. Thanks again.
For what it's worth, I and a friend were able to rock the bike back onto the rear wheel and place it on a household digital platform scale (with a half-inch plywood board on top for weight distribution). It jumped between 71-72 lbs. This was with no saddle or post, but with the larger fenders installed. No battery. I know it's not accurate, but it seems fairly close to what the bike should weigh in that configuration, leaning a bit toward heavier than stated on the website. Thanks again for any help! @sandnap
I was finally able to track down a floor scale and took several measurements with and without the battery. The weight without the battery averaged 63lbs and with it 77lbs. This is with the suspension and brake upgrades and without the light, kickstand, and fenders. I am not sure how accurate the scale is but I imagine it's close.
That seems pretty close, considering the upgrades. I appreciate you responding going through the time and effort to do this. It was very helpful. @@sandnap
Question, with all the upgrades you did, are you still happy with the freesky swift horse or would it make since to go with a cyrusher ranger or himiway cobra that already have most of these upgrades as standard?
Great question. The two biggest limiting factors on the swift horse are rear suspension travel (~90mm with the upgraded shock) and hub motor (vs mid-drive). I think the Himiway and Cyrusher would still need upgrades if my goal was to replace my specialized enduro but the Himiway Cobra Pro has more potential with the mid drive and additional rear travel. It is also a lot more money and with upgrades would push the price up to some of the name brand electric mountain bikes. With the upgrades I think the swift horse will be a great general purpose ebike with the potential to have a lot of fun on some techy blue trails and in the snow and sand but for black trails I will need to keep the enduro or consider a lighter electric with longer suspension travel and a mid-drive motor.
I used the bushings that came with the new shock but I had to cut and combine them to get the width I needed. I used one uncut aluminum and part of the second and a full plastic on each side of the shock with two cut plastics on each end.
Hi and Thanks for the video... Question .. I just bought that same rear shock for my Alaska freesky. What spacers / bushings did you end up using for the top portion of the DNM, did you just cut down the ones they sent with the new shock. Oh also what bolt for that. Did you have to buy a new one?? Thanks again :)
@@sandnap Thank you for your quick response appreciate it. Yes, I think that is awesome. I will cut down the provided spacers, but my stock bolt will not fit in those provided spacers. So I will have to buy something. Strong strong I imagine l o l. Thank you again😀
@HummerH-mo4cs I just discovered what may be an easier option! I was able to remove the spacers from the original shock. They are pretty snug but I removed them by smacking one side of the spacer 2 or 3 times using a hard plastic mallet to prevent marring and then flipping it and smacking the other side alternating back and forth between both sides. If you try this let me know if it works for you!
Like the Swift Horse the build quality is excellent. She has the red one and the paint looks flawless. It has been reliable and the range seems to be good though I haven't been tracking it as closely as I should. She loves it.
I messed with it but didn't have any luck. I researched it a bit and discovered that most of the Lishui motor controllers are locked down and can only be programmed via a proprietary cable and software. Perhaps someone else has had better luck and will chime in.
The overall length of the dnm is 165mm but the travel is 35mm. This translates into about 80mm of frame travel in the back. The usable travel on the Himalo fork was somewhere near 150-160mm (plenty), my new Manitou front shock is 150mm. More squish in the front than the rear. The tall 4" tires help absorb the bumps too.
Hello again.. You no another thing that bugs me is how the power cable routes out of the Hub and is right on the disk brake rotor. I wish there was some other way ???
I tried the himalo fork and did not work for me. Frist off not enough travel after I had to adjust the distance of the crown pieces to fit my alaska, front head piece that forks go in is 7.5 "..Is that what your Swift Horse is ?? 2nd off (lol) the lower half of the fork had to much forward and backward movement for me, did not feel very durable. That said ..yep it is Way Way better the the stock fork but to sketchy with all that movement for me. I am still looking for a new Double crown fork ??? I would like a Double crown that I can use the original wheel with and not have to buy a new one.
I thought the head tube on the Swift Horse was tall @ 6.5", it looks like the Alaska takes the win @ 7.5". The only other dual crown 135mm, 9mm QR option I have been able to find is the Bucklos and it doesn't have rebound dampening which is one of major faults with the stock fork. Also, my unproven guess would be that the quality is on par with the Himalo. There are a few single crown options but I wouldn't attempt to use a cheap single crown fork with the momentum these bikes carry. I would be nervous that the steerer tube would snap off. I had the same issue with the forward/rearward play on my Himalo and I believe that is why it was binding on me. I may stop recommending that fork for anything other than smooth terrain and mild trail riding. A few people have reported issues with them. I wasn't sure if mine was just a lemon. There are several options available with the 15mm thru axle & 150mm width. But as you stated you would need a new wheel or a new 15x150 36 hole hub and the desire/ability to lace it to the original rim. Given the length of the Alaska head tube I believe an inverted fork would work best so that you can maintain the full travel of the fork. I am not sure how long the legs would need to be to keep the original ride height in either case. I'll reply again if I am able to find a better solution using the stock wheel.
@sandnap As always thanks for the most excellent reply. I fully agree with what you're saying. Keep me posted if you find something. I will do the same just for info. Thanks again for all your gracious time and wisdom!!!
Definitely can upgrade it but so far this one shifts well so I don't have a reason to upgrade it. Inevitably I will bend it at which point I will probably go with a Shimano Altus to match my new shifter.
I am not sure what the epro x-6e uses but I suspect that it is the same as the original Swift Horse since they both have a dual crown fork. The stock fork on the original has a 1 1/8" straight tube and the headset is 44mm on the top and 56mm on the bottom and has open bearings. I replaced it with this one amzn.to/3Xyc5iL (this is an affiliate link) and have been very happy with it. The new one supports the straight tube or if you swap forks to a tapered fork it works with that too.
Yeah, the stock forks on these bikes are horrendous to say the least, and I mean really bad. I don't know how they felt it was ok to sell the bikes like that. Rear shock isn't anything to write home about either. I also changed the bars on mine to a 780mm wide 50mm rise bar. The narrow bars that come on these things are horrible as well.
Thank you for this video. You helped me identify the clanking sound coming from the front wheel area. Guess I'll have to learn how to upgrade this bike and make the preventative alterations you've incorporated before I run into problems. This information will help me.
I just did the same upgrade to the brakes on My Freesky Himalaya after watching this video. I figure it adds more than a third more brake torque, theoretically. Maybe my brakes won't overheat as much so I won't have to keep bleeding the lines. Thanks.
Links to the parts I used are below. Keep in mind that while I am happy with the outcome your mileage may vary. I have put more miles on smooth trails and rocky trails since I posted this and I am still happy.
Disclosure: Some of the updated links below are affiliate links. This means that, at zero cost to you, I will earn an affiliate commission if you click through the link and finalize a purchase.
The bike
amzn.to/3QvCnyD
Himalo Fork
amzn.to/3SvGLQP
Rear shock - choose the 165mm
amzn.to/3QNVO7h
Brake rotors 203mm front (sliver-A , 203MM) and 180mm rear (sliver-A , 180MM). These are the sizes and style I bought but you can choose the size and styles. You will have to buy the correct adapters below.
180mm (rear): amzn.to/3FOYA60
203mm (front): amzn.to/3tVgm4z
Pay attention to the size and style of the adapters. You will need to choose the same if you go with 203mm front and 180mm rear rotors.
Rear brake caliper adapter - IS Rear 180mm-B: amzn.to/47ihXQr
Front brake caliper adapter - PM Front/Rear 203mm-A: amzn.to/3swmKPn
Hello I am so glad I found your video !!! I too packed my controller with foam and used silicone on the motor cable by the crank and the wiring up top as well , I replaced brakes to bucklos 203 and rear d&m shock like you but was just wondering because I want to upgrade my front dual crown suspension do you have a link for it or the size and was wondering did you just replace the suspension tubes because I so much want to get rid of the factory non responsive suspension like you any help is appreciated much thanks from Buffalo NY, ps after 350 miles on mine I thought I ordered the right size hybrid rear hub motor gears to upgrade them but they weren't the correct size when they came so I inspected them they were perfect and just repacted the hub with mobil 1 synthetic grease and used rtv to make a water tight seal and I don't think I'll have to do anything with it for quit awhile!! The think that I heard that hurts the gears is when you go off a curb or jump and if you don't let off the throttle in the air on landing the initial force could potentially strip them . Just my two cents any help with the front suspension would be greatly appreciated thank you!
Great info thanks for responding! I'll give the hub some love next. I replaced the entire front fork after measuring it up to find a suitable replacement. I bought everything from Amazon, the fork I opted for is rb.gy/p02vp. These off brand forks have mixed reviews but so far it is working well for me. If it ends up failing I will probably fork out the cash for a Wren inverted fork. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options for 135mm axles.
@@sandnap thank you for the feedback and yes bummer would be perfect with inverted front fork!!!
Additional Upgrades. I have made some changes since I put out this video.
I switched out the Himalo fork for a Manitou Mastodon Pro STD which is a single crown fork and has a tapered head tube (1-1/8" top, 1-1/2" bottom) and therefore required a new headset (44mm top, 56mm bottom outside diameter bearings) and a new wheel (15mm through axle). The stock fork has a straight head tube. The new headset has sealed bearings and is an improvement over the stock headset. I adjusted the travel on the Mastodon to 140mm which, in my opinion, improves the headset angle as it is about an inch longer (axle to crown) than the stock fork and 3/4 inches longer than the Himalo. The headset angle is about 2 degrees slacker than stock and about one degree slacker than the Himalo.
I would have kept the Himalo but I was having binding issues, it wouldn't rebound reliably when fully compressed while braking down steep descents. I also couldn't get the sag set up because it took more than my weight to get it to move from the top. It did handle the rough stuff quite well though. I don't know if this is an issue with the fork in general or if I got a lemon.
I also installed Tannus Armour tire inserts and so far I am very happy with them. I pulled a few thorns out of my tires and no flats. Finally, I installed a narrower, lighter seat that works better for the type of riding I am doing.
Future upgrades:
- Dropper post
- 36T chain ring/152mm crank arms (slower top speed but better for clearance in the rocks)
- Pedals
Disclosure: Some of the links below are affiliate links. This means that, at zero cost to you, I will earn an affiliate commission if you click through the link and finalize a purchase.
Headset: amzn.to/3smb95s
The new fork (Pro STD): Gen 2 sold out
Tannus Tire Armour: amzn.to/3MwliDy
Hi, Great info. I agree need, a better front fork to start. Did the fork you left a link to work ok with the tappered head tube? Looks like a straight / non tapered head tube. Is there an adapter? Or does the bike accept a straight head tube? Just want to confirm before purchasing. Thanks will be upgrading the brakes as well. Would like to find a solution for chain slap (found that 7th gear increases the frequency of the chain jumping off the cassette on rough terrain).
For some reason I thought that the Freesky had a straight fork but was surprised that it wasn't when I took it out. Luckily, the fork I linked has a taper even though it is not obvious in the pictures. The lower bearing is not as tight as it was with the stock fork but it is tight enough that there isn't any play.
I ordered some chainstay protectors (www.amazon.com/dp/B07S9T2BJY?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) to stop the abuse to my paint though the protector is already showing signs of abuse. I may have to go with something a bit more sturdy next time.
Regarding the fork. I started experiencing stiction to the point of binding when applying the front brake on rough stuff. I was able to solve it by servicing the fork and applying a generous amount of grease on the inside of the lowers which were completely dry on the dampener side and had a minimal amount of grease/oil on the air spring side. The process I followed is ua-cam.com/video/8G2v9qSKils/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared.
Do you happen to know the actual weight of this bike? Their website states 80 lbs. with battery. Based on reviews I've read, this might be an understatement. My rack has a weight limit of 70 lbs. per bike (my wife has a Rocky, too.) If the 80 lbs. is accurate, I should be good with the battery and seat removed. I did add the full fenders and rear rack - probably + 5 lbs.) But I'm right at the limit. If the bike actually weighs 85-88 lbs., as others have said, I've got a math problem. Thanks again.
Unfortunately I don't currently have a reliable scale. I will see if I can track one down and get the weight.
For what it's worth, I and a friend were able to rock the bike back onto the rear wheel and place it on a household digital platform scale (with a half-inch plywood board on top for weight distribution). It jumped between 71-72 lbs. This was with no saddle or post, but with the larger fenders installed. No battery. I know it's not accurate, but it seems fairly close to what the bike should weigh in that configuration, leaning a bit toward heavier than stated on the website. Thanks again for any help! @sandnap
I was finally able to track down a floor scale and took several measurements with and without the battery. The weight without the battery averaged 63lbs and with it 77lbs. This is with the suspension and brake upgrades and without the light, kickstand, and fenders.
I am not sure how accurate the scale is but I imagine it's close.
That seems pretty close, considering the upgrades. I appreciate you responding going through the time and effort to do this. It was very helpful. @@sandnap
Question, with all the upgrades you did, are you still happy with the freesky swift horse or would it make since to go with a cyrusher ranger or himiway cobra that already have most of these upgrades as standard?
Great question. The two biggest limiting factors on the swift horse are rear suspension travel (~90mm with the upgraded shock) and hub motor (vs mid-drive). I think the Himiway and Cyrusher would still need upgrades if my goal was to replace my specialized enduro but the Himiway Cobra Pro has more potential with the mid drive and additional rear travel. It is also a lot more money and with upgrades would push the price up to some of the name brand electric mountain bikes. With the upgrades I think the swift horse will be a great general purpose ebike with the potential to have a lot of fun on some techy blue trails and in the snow and sand but for black trails I will need to keep the enduro or consider a lighter electric with longer suspension travel and a mid-drive motor.
Great video but do you have links to the products you used for upgrade?
What bushings did you use for the new upgraded rear shock?
I used the bushings that came with the new shock but I had to cut and combine them to get the width I needed. I used one uncut aluminum and part of the second and a full plastic on each side of the shock with two cut plastics on each end.
I added a comment with links to the parts I used. Once I verify YT account I'll pin it.
Hi and Thanks for the video... Question .. I just bought that same rear shock for my Alaska freesky. What spacers / bushings did you end up using for the top portion of the DNM, did you just cut down the ones they sent with the new shock. Oh also what bolt for that. Did you have to buy a new one?? Thanks again :)
You're welcome I am glad you found it useful! I used the stock bolt and cut down the spacers they provided to fit.
@@sandnap Thank you for your quick response appreciate it. Yes, I think that is awesome. I will cut down the provided spacers, but my stock bolt will not fit in those provided spacers. So I will have to buy something.
Strong strong I imagine l o l. Thank you again😀
@HummerH-mo4cs I just discovered what may be an easier option! I was able to remove the spacers from the original shock. They are pretty snug but I removed them by smacking one side of the spacer 2 or 3 times using a hard plastic mallet to prevent marring and then flipping it and smacking the other side alternating back and forth between both sides. If you try this let me know if it works for you!
I uploaded a new short showing me removing the stock bushings. I don't have an Alaska so I am not sure if this will work but I suspect it will.
I actually did as you did and used the spacers that came with the DNM. What a difference , love it ...Thanks again :) @sandnap
How do you like the freesky rocky? Interested in that one for my wife
Like the Swift Horse the build quality is excellent. She has the red one and the paint looks flawless. It has been reliable and the range seems to be good though I haven't been tracking it as closely as I should. She loves it.
Do you know how to adjust the parameter settings? Whenci hold the plus minus i get SPd with four 0000. I cant get further. Any suggestions? Thank you.
I messed with it but didn't have any luck. I researched it a bit and discovered that most of the Lishui motor controllers are locked down and can only be programmed via a proprietary cable and software. Perhaps someone else has had better luck and will chime in.
@sandnap I emailed Freesky. They sent me a pass code of 1313. Some things can be tweaked but I'm not sure about the speed control.
Yes the code is 1313
Is the dnm shock a 165x35
Could you tell me what the sport 34 is in millimeters 180x?....and the dnm is a 165x?....thank you.
The overall length of the dnm is 165mm but the travel is 35mm. This translates into about 80mm of frame travel in the back. The usable travel on the Himalo fork was somewhere near 150-160mm (plenty), my new Manitou front shock is 150mm. More squish in the front than the rear. The tall 4" tires help absorb the bumps too.
Hello again.. You no another thing that bugs me is how the power cable routes out of the Hub and is right on the disk brake rotor. I wish there was some other way ???
I agree it looks pretty vulnerable. I haven't come up with a better solution yet.
I tried the himalo fork and did not work for me. Frist off not enough travel after I had to adjust the distance of the crown pieces to fit my alaska, front head piece that forks go in is 7.5 "..Is that what your Swift Horse is ??
2nd off (lol) the lower half of the fork had to much forward and backward movement for me, did not feel very durable.
That said ..yep it is Way Way better the the stock fork but to sketchy with all that movement for me.
I am still looking for a new Double crown fork ??? I would like a Double crown that I can use the original wheel with and not have to buy a new one.
I thought the head tube on the Swift Horse was tall @ 6.5", it looks like the Alaska takes the win @ 7.5". The only other dual crown 135mm, 9mm QR option I have been able to find is the Bucklos and it doesn't have rebound dampening which is one of major faults with the stock fork. Also, my unproven guess would be that the quality is on par with the Himalo. There are a few single crown options but I wouldn't attempt to use a cheap single crown fork with the momentum these bikes carry. I would be nervous that the steerer tube would snap off.
I had the same issue with the forward/rearward play on my Himalo and I believe that is why it was binding on me. I may stop recommending that fork for anything other than smooth terrain and mild trail riding. A few people have reported issues with them. I wasn't sure if mine was just a lemon.
There are several options available with the 15mm thru axle & 150mm width. But as you stated you would need a new wheel or a new 15x150 36 hole hub and the desire/ability to lace it to the original rim. Given the length of the Alaska head tube I believe an inverted fork would work best so that you can maintain the full travel of the fork. I am not sure how long the legs would need to be to keep the original ride height in either case.
I'll reply again if I am able to find a better solution using the stock wheel.
@sandnap As always thanks for the most excellent reply. I fully agree with what you're saying. Keep me posted if you find something. I will do the same just for info. Thanks again for all your gracious time and wisdom!!!
Can you upgrade the rear derailleur? What is the quality on the stock one?
Definitely can upgrade it but so far this one shifts well so I don't have a reason to upgrade it. Inevitably I will bend it at which point I will probably go with a Shimano Altus to match my new shifter.
What headset bearings doe the swift horse pro x-6e use
I am not sure what the epro x-6e uses but I suspect that it is the same as the original Swift Horse since they both have a dual crown fork. The stock fork on the original has a 1 1/8" straight tube and the headset is 44mm on the top and 56mm on the bottom and has open bearings. I replaced it with this one amzn.to/3Xyc5iL (this is an affiliate link) and have been very happy with it. The new one supports the straight tube or if you swap forks to a tapered fork it works with that too.
Yeah, the stock forks on these bikes are horrendous to say the least, and I mean really bad. I don't know how they felt it was ok to sell the bikes like that. Rear shock isn't anything to write home about either. I also changed the bars on mine to a 780mm wide 50mm rise bar. The narrow bars that come on these things are horrible as well.