The Best Connector EVER? - Thunderbolt 5
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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Thanks to Ben Benson and Intel for their help with this episode!
Learn about the new Thunderbolt 5 connector and how it builds upon USB 4 v2.
Leave a reply with your requests for future episodes.
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![[RANT] The DUMBEST Thing About USB](/img/n.gif)
Thunderbolt 5 offers what I've wanted out of USB for years - a simple naming convention.
its just USB with normal naming
Just you wait until they release Thunderbolt 5.1 gen 1
@@casvandijk03 lol
Unfortunately it ends there. As a standard thunderbolt has deteriorated heavily as intel removes restrictions from it, and there’s no guarantee that any given feature will be working on any given implementation of thunderbolt.
Let's see 😂@@jackconrad4814
Who would have thought standardization of electronics would result in better user experience, compatibility and everything else.
My thoughts exactly. A new connection type is great, but reliability is still regrettably far behind. That's what needs work on, a better "Plug-and-Play" experience. I'm willing to bet that the company I work for would be more likely to adopt thunderbolt if it has better, well established protocols.
I feel like I can see clearly the future thunderbolt 5 and up provides.
chiefly being the death of the displayport just like vga was killed by hdmi
@@haloquayle in my line of testing, although display port only provides video, it is significantly more reliable than thunderbolt.
VGA
USB 4v2? They never learn.
Linus was ranting about this 4 years ago, lol
I don't care until USB 4v2 Gen 3x2 comes out.
@@googlesucks6029
USB 4²+3×2
USB 22 basically. 😂
They learned counting from the French (looking at you, quatre-vingt-dix).
they do it on purpose at this point lol
I replied to a couple of comments, but thought I'd make a main one for more to see.
USB has to be configurable for it to be a universal port. There's a reason why the minimum specs are so low. Phones don't need 80gbps or 240w, so manufacturers would be spending extra money on nothing. Now think of something even more mundane like a port on a controller or keyboard. Do those need Displayport Alt mode?
What USB really needs are clear marketing guidelines that have to be strictly followed. That's the reason why Thunderbolt still exists - it's an easy way for consumers to understand they're getting nearly a full fledged port, but it's also why you don't see it on nearly as many devices.
with 80gbps on a phone you could dock pcie 16x and run triple a titles if the OS supported it, so yeah we do need it.
Well it started ok with USB 1, usb 2 and usb 3. Could be better, but nowadays no-one knows wtf spec is what or what cable they have, or even what their devices support. They f* up big time. Yes I understand it's more complex than that, but if they can't simplify it to the point your average retired person understands, then it isn't good enough.
Downside of this is that everybody do their ports and cables as they like. Cables especially. Some only charge,other charge and send data l, about data speeds not mentioning.
@@123Andersonevphone SOCs would need an extra 16 lanes of PCIe just for the USB port just on the off-chance someone might wanna game on it, that's not free
@@HolarMusic way cheaper than having to buy two or three devices.
At least "USB 4 v2" isn't called USB 4 V2 Ultra Max Super Saiyan 5 and Knuckles" or whatever naming scheme they'll come up next.
Give it a few months. There will be ten different versions.
“And Knuckles“ got me haha.
Usb 420 v69 ultra pro max plus
I really hope the 80gbps speed and 240w charging becomes a standard. Finally we can have gaming laptops game from type c. And also no reliance/dependency on Asus to make fast External GPU alternatives.
Gaming laptops in future? I’m sure handhelds will destroy gaming laptops and no one will use those
@@z0rden_ I say this as a big steam deck fan (my spouse and I both have one): there is no comparison between it and a gaming laptop. they're trying to do entirely different things and I think someone who wants a high-end gaming laptop won't truly consider a handheld for the job
@@z0rden_ handhelds will never be able to destroy gaming laptops from the same generation. That’s just physics.
A laptop will always have more power and thermal capacity than a handheld giving it the edge in terms of performance. Not to forget, you can’t use a handheld to take notes in class, atleast not comfortably.
@@z0rden_those words are the same words from long time ago "laptops and tablets will absolutely destroy PCs". Yes laptops are more popular than PCs right now, but the claim " destroy"? Not even close. The performance of laptops are now getting close to desktop PCs, but never same. They are have its own target. Don't even try to assume they are the same class.
@@1Skillet2 steam deck uses zen 2 apu and its just beginning z1 cpus have a ps4 power and its evolving more and more (ryzen 8000 apus will get rdna 3.5,gaafet etc etc) I know gaming laptops will get the same thing but people will say “two of them can play games,then I’m getting handheld because of portability” two of them small two of them portable thats why they wont be same as pc gaming but handhelds will kill laptops in portable gaming
man usb standard is so confusing it unbelievable. Would love if they just stuck to thunderbolt versions!
yes they can but then it will be much more expensive to have one with thunderbolt port since it is licensed, that means every manufacturer needs to pay to use thunderbolt.
USB has to be configurable for it to be a universal port. There's a reason why the minimum specs are so low. Phones don't need 80gbps or 240w, so manufacturers would be spending extra money on nothing. Imagine something even more mundane like a baby monitor or port on a controller. What USB really needs are clear marketing guidelines that have to be strictly followed.
@@jeevana.6391 and yet android users are making so much noise about Apple lightning port.
Can somebody please teach USB-IF how basic integers work ?
mind you we're talking about 80Gbps both ways over copper, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the next or the version after that will be based on a hybrid cable with optical data and copper for power just to maintain signal integrity.
Kinda funny as Thunderbolt was originally planned to be such a cable
I better hope so. The max length of TB is pretty low
Idk about using fibre for cable, it would be a hassle to carry since it can't be bend
@@FireWyvern870 modern USB or HDMI or anything cables can't be bent more than an optical cable without them dying anyway
@@talibong9518 fibreglass can crack, copper don't.
@@FireWyvern870VR has been using hybrid fibre/copper cables for years in headsets. Just look at the oculus link cable, pimax hybrid cable or equivalents, and they twist like hell and still work. Frankly, they're lighter and thinner than copper cables and are also more durable.
Honestly. Anything past USB 3 confuses me.
Every iteration has a slightly different name and slightly niche features.
And I know Riley just explained the differences between Gen 4 v2 and thunderbolt 5 but I understood nothing. The differences are so little it barely feels an upgrade and also… why do we have 2 separate USB C naming schemes (gen 4v2 and thunderbolt 5) if they basically are the same cable?
USB C is the connector port type. USB 2.0, USB 3 (I’m not listing all versions), USB 4, thunderbolt is the speed of the transfer of data and the various protocols used to do things like daisy chain displays.
USB C comparison are USB A (what you think of as traditional USB) USB B, USB micro, USB mini, lightning.
anything before is just as confusing
I will never settle for anything non-Thunderbolt again. They just do right what USB does not. No weird naming schemes and looking at 20 different spec sheets when comparing devices.
USB needs to be spanked hard into getting a normal requirement
With some hope, perhaps USB 5.0 will just copy Thunderbolt 5's requirements and the terms will be interchangeable. It would be a win for consumers since there'd be less confusion: buying advice would be "just look for the version 5.0 cable".
Which means that the USB consortium will call it USB 3.5.4 v3
Where is the EU when you need it
That's mostly what USB 4.0 is. some of the high end stuff is optional but on handhelds it's normal to see full USB 4 support like using an external GPU (excluding the Steam Deck and ROG ally). I'm currently using a GPD G1 external GPU (AMD 7600 XT mobile) it's pretty good performance and works much better with less issues than thunderbolt 3 external gpus.
The USB forum has looser terms as more devices use the standard USB standard. Any USB connector or cord can optionally use thunderbolt 5 standards.
@@peppi0304 Miracles take time, patience!
You say that TB4’s minimum suppported charge rate is 100watts compared to TB5’s 140watts for host charging and 15watts for peripherals. However, Thunderbolt 4’s MAXIMUM rate is 100 watts, with its minimum also being 15watts (without distinguishing host/peripheral charging). Sorry I know no one cares…
Thanks for the clarification, I care
@@bootchoo96 +1
thunderbolt 4 max is 140w
@@ameknite It's not though. Intel's site specifies 100w. As does every reputable source. Google it. Or try plugging in a 140w Apple charger to a MBP without using magsafe. It will cap at 100w. Where do you get your info? UA-cam comments?
Maybe USB5v3 will have enough speed, bandwidth, stability, and power for eGPU. One can certainly dream, when the path is still so far ahead...
You mean usb5v2x2?
@@jordanwardle11 you mean USB5.1v3Gen4ProUltra
@@talibong9518USB ultra giga Promax, v6.6.1 with cinnadust (tm) rated at 90kiloshits per megafarts
USB6, This Time For Sure
What I want to see is a thunderbolt cable that can have long cords. but yeah this is still really sweet! I'll hold off on upgrading my laptop until this comes out!
I'd rather see them not be fragile pieces of crap... But it's an Apple patent anyway, what it REALLY deserves is to abandoned by consumers. Sadly Apple's sycophants have a severe masochism kink when it comes to their wallets and ability to receive respect from people who use their damn brains to THINK... They love to be hated and ripped off, I simply don't get it...
Yepp i wish they made it in twisted pair just like ethernet cable, that way they can travel a long distance
@@siontheodorus1501 Shielded twisted pair ethernet cables can go a fair distance yeah. Now those cables are also thicker than the ones you will buy for at home and home users seem to want cables then will not be as thick as the power cable to their monitor for each cable the connect to the back of their computer. Data integrity is usually better with shielded twisted pair ethernet when compared to twisted pair ethernet in the came category of cable thus why shielded twisted pair cables is the version used for longer copper ethernet cables.
For thunderbolt cables well try to explain to a person why the cable for thunderbolt is as thick as a power cable as it will have to hold 24 wires. All 24 wires will have to have a 99.999% signal integrity the 0.001% is acceptable signal lose over distance and thus why the command signal for it to resend the last signal exists. You can use the same connector but the signal loss will most likely be at each end when it has to terminate into USB-C. Mostly we got away from thick cables as the thick cables that were made to preserve signal integrity also got stiff over time. The signals did not suffer just the cable got stiff which if it is what is picking up whatever's in the environment instead of allowing it to get close to the wires that is good. The thing is it also will cost most to have the thicker cables and most consumers do not want to pay more.
Web search "active" Thunderbolt cables. I have an older 15 meter TB2 cable, worked great. They have them for TB3+ as well. Prepare to pay some cash for it, however.
@@siontheodorus1501It's not just because of the cable itself, but also how ethernet data is encoded. They wouldn't be able to get the same performance just running the USB protocol. That's why USB over ethernet requires specific equipment to convert it, which isn't practical.
USB4 is based off PCIe protocols. Think about the trouble with signals that people have with riser cables - this is similar. This doesn't mean that we won't be able to have long cables, we'll just have to use optical cables.
Biggest problem in implementation is for laptops.
Having to support at least 140 W means that in TB 5, your laptop would need to have a HUGE power brick just because of TB 5. Which, especially for PC laptops is already a big problem (literally).
On battery, you will probably don't have TB5 port at all, just because of power requirements.
no way jose
Why the hell does the usb consortium keep putting those stupid minimum requirements for usb4 certification? Like 20gbps is thunderbolt 3 speed wth, it's not even close.
Because apples processing is to fast for the cords to handle
Price
And will the labels be useless and confusing? Thought So.
The only thing I want is for all those features to be mandatory instead of a “suggestion” so the logo on the box actually means something and I don’t have to google the damn spec sheet to know it it does what I want it to do
OCuLink can do PCIe 4.0x8. TB/USB4 are way too slow, esp. for eGPU. Bidirectional 120Gbps+ or GTFO.
Wonder if any other laptop will come out supporting the full 240W of the PD 3.1 spec before the Framework 16
As someone who has gone back and forth with eGPU setups, I really want them to come back. We have yet to see the true potential eGPUs can offer. In the GTX 9xx and 10xx days, the pcie bottleneck wasn't all that bad, but most non-gaming laptops were still pretty short on processor power. Since then, processor power in regular laptops has increased a ton and no longer represents a serious bottleneck in most games, but the graphics cards of today are severely limited by the thunderbolt 3/4 spec. I fear that, by the time Thunderbolt 5 is mainstream, even double the pcie performance won't be enough and that in a year or two more, we will be in the same spot we are now.
OMG... I'm going back to my daisy-chained SCSI cables...
For most i think the charging part will be most important as USB-C charging and USB-C data upload seem the most common for USB devices for consumers. For me I a fan of thunderbolt mostly as it mandates that all of the spec is met not just parts of it.
is that a Ryan's impression of Mr PoopyButtholy on the end? classic Ryan
yes. thats what i thought as well.
Thunderbolt 5 means you'll be able to have a laptop with two 140W ports, and one dedicated to both connecting to and powering an external GPU. That 140 watts is enough to power a full-juice RTX 4060
My dream is to see the laptop desk setup Linus made some time ago. Have a powerful cpu laptop for work and then return to my home and plug in the desktop setup with egpu monitor ecc and have the possibility to play with no restrictions and simply with one cable. One day my brother. One day…
get gpd g1 and gpd win max then....... i use that now, u cna 4k gaming with freaking handheld, no need to sync different devices
one day bro, one day!
I remember when USB3 had been signed off and desperately waiting for USB3 expansion cards and external hard drives to start shipping. Seems such a long time ago.
Not sure how it can both be slower then plugging a card in, and faster than current options, as Oculink is exactly as fast as plunging a card into a PCI slot.
TB5 will finally enable external 5K+/120hz ProMotion monitors. There’s now a good reason for Apple to refresh their 32” Pro Display XDR.
I mean there still aren't any compelling thunderbolt 4 eGPU enclosures... are they all waiting for tb5/usb4.2? Seems the main thing hindering eGPU is the systemcard bandwidth and upping that from ~2GB/s to 8-12 would be a big step in closing the gap (standard pci4 16x system has ~32GB/s of bandwidth available to the card).
In short, "Thunderbolt 5 could transfer 140gb/s data and 120 watt of power"
Basically, you can connect a 4K 144hz monitor (or 6K/8K 60hz) and powered it on single cable, and still have a bandwidth left for external hard drive or flash drives.
How would this compare to HDMI and DP as an alternative for A/V solution for TVs and Monitors?
this reminds me of the firewire 400 vs usb 2, clsh back in the day. Usb was rated higher but in real world fire wire was up to 20 percent faster, due to less over head
FireWire was running on its own separate bus and chipset, so CPU load didn’t effect transfer speeds like it with USB. Daisy chaining devices was a great feature, and FireWire also carried 12v instead of 5v which was outstanding. I’ve still got at least a dozen FW devices in use between work and home.
@@insaneiaq true
This sounds like a major headache for Framework 16 passthrough ports, as they'll need to make sure your ports are the 180w kind, rather than the 100w capable ones
The thumbnail that reference "The cable guy" was excelent!
Am I a dork for thinking you were going to talk about the actual design of the cable itself? Engineer Life!
When I tried USB 4 Thunderbolt on my AMD Alienware dGPU laptop, it was 30% of the speed of the dedicated graphics on the laptop that was built-in even with a 6900XT and a external display. And it constantly messed with Bitlocker encryption on Windows when I start up my PC.
I want to eventually replace my work desktop with a laptop and a dGPU setup, so I don’t have to mess with OneDrive or making sure I have everything I need or want installed 24/7), but Thunderbolt 3/4 is a meme right now bandwidth wise.
I’m hoping Framework ends up adopting it, since that might just be my next laptop once this Alienware stops being able to play current games.
Ugh, that sounds like some nonsense driver issues. That's why *I'm glad I'm on Linux:* instead of having buggy, inconsistent support for the latest tech, we just don't have support for it at all.
(is joke)
if you got a free m.2 slot you can get the m.2 to oculink adapter deal, It will run a external gpu at near full speed. It blows the Thunderdump away..
Thunderbolt isn't a connector though. It is a protocol / interface layer thing
Ackthually...
Long time since the conversancy
Good job
"Here at LTT we're very sorry for our mistakes. But do you know who isn't sorry? Our sponsor for this video"
Now a good use for both the power and data bandwidths would be HMDs.
Mixed and virtual reality headsets direct connected to new/next gen APU mini PCs.
Ooooo-weeeee! How Riley got his Ri back.
yes, it is a "MUST HAVE" Been waiting for this for years. Been plugging my external gpu's inot the m.2's lol problem is one slot is 4x, other is 2x. So don't buy 2 4090's and expect to see performance with one card running at 50% due to bottleneck lol. occulink offers 4 express lanes but at 32gb/s . I daytrade the stock market as I travel. Gaming isn't a high priority but for me the best setup would be 1 egpu running on 4x m.2., the other 2 on T bolt 5. If the 14 gen support T bolt 5. I like MSI TITAN models. They are expensive but come with 2 T BOLT's..
Until they make usable egpu's as good as normal setup thunderbolt 5 will be enthusiast product..... they should make setup in which if laptop is having 2 thunderbolt make post as uplink and second as downlink which will double the bandwidth...😊
Riley will always be my favorite 😊
Weird, if wires supports 240Watts charging then why can't ports support it? 🤔
For 240 Watts you will need 5 Amps at 48 V. Laptop batteries are usually 12-20V. DC-DC converters that can convert 48V down to 20 V or even 12 V (at 20 Amps!) are costly and large. Also the batteries might not even be allowed that much charging and the device might not need the power so why implement it. A wire must just have low enough resistance and thats it so its pretty simple to do.
@@ianmcchickenlover3704 actually you get close to 230 watts on Lenovo legion laptops and other gaming laptops as well! They use barrel pins though, if that can do it than why can't type c both are dc right!
@@_BlackSpectrum Both are DC, the barrel jacks are usually much closer to the battery voltage at higher currents to start with. The larger the gap between the output voltage and the input voltage of a converter the more expensive and inefficient it gets. Its also that they are just now starting to use 48V (for 240W) on USB c instead of the 20V (for 100W) that current USB chargers use. The current USB C can handle stays the same at 5 Amps, they are just upping the Voltage rating.
@@ianmcchickenlover3704 oh ok, gotcha, so the barrel pin can take high currents so it's voltage can stay 20v but type c only support max 5amps so they up the voltage to 48v to support 240 w charging, yes?
Thanks 👍🏻
@@_BlackSpectrum Yes
I still use thinkpad x280 which have TB3. But the TB3 cable is still expensive for me as a student. So yeah, i just use 1 monitor for laptop and PS2 with HDMI cable and HDMI switcher.
I think where Thunderbolt 5 becomes necessary is storage, especially external storage for gaming consoles, cuz today’s latest games using 200+GB storage per game, and DLCs will take up more, and to make next gen games usable and playable directly from external storage, this would be necessary, and new gen of consoles and handhelds need Intel for help
Btw hats-off to your video editing team to keeping aspect ratio in mind. Utilised much more display on iPhone 12
You mean like 16:9, the default aspect ratio for web? Yeah, hat off I guess...
@@Donnironononits actually a bit wider than 16:9
So it's basically the same thing as USB 4 v2, but with higher minimum requirements?
I hope e gpus actually will sound like a reasonable buy for gaming with thunderbolt 5
There's still overhead from the external nature of GPUs
Thanks
ECC Squad? Nice
Labs really needs to hurry up with setting up all three logistics and equipment for testing wires such as thunderbolt 4/5 and usb c gen 4/4 v2
I was waiting for this for so long nice
Can’t wait to get a Thunderbolt 5 cable for my new iPhone 😊 ❤
I want 240 watt type c charging for my laptop!
PAM3 transits more than 1.5 bits per symbol. There is a log operation in the math.
I hate that most reasonably priced laptops just have a barrel jack and USB 2.0 it's so frustrating that a lot of mid range devices are stuck with ancient standards.
Are Thunderbolt and USB the same? S i can by a high quality TB5 cable and is also works for USB 4.2?
bought a USB C to Lightning adaptor. Doesn't work (no charging) on my TB 3 cable but it works for Micro USB cable. My plan for using just one cable does not work.
I’m still here with a laptop on Thunderbolt 1… it doesn’t even support PCI-e 4.0 for the internal dGPU.
Love riverboat thunderbolt!
USB 4x4 will be the perfect cable when I’m on the move!
Slow data speeds got you STUCK in a rut?…
Now there’s a product that’s going places!
the only thing i took out of this is that USB has the worst naming scheme since my mom named me...
I may switch to thunderbolt just because they don’t mess around with naming
Just as I bought thunderbolt 4 gaming laptop 🤣
i whait at this moment when everything has thunderbolt and we need only one cabel for everything maybe TVs robotvacuum and more
It never stops
Didn't even knew usb 4 v2 existed
Does TB5 support pd3.1
Yes
good work
Wait, USB 4v2? There was USB 4v1, or even USB 4? I really missed a memo somewhere.
There I was thinking 20 gbs was the fast current connector speed
we have not even gotten the world saturated with 3 let alone 4 and now we are getting 5.
Intel is very strict with device certification. USB is more open but compatibility is not guaranteed.
I am currently rocking 3 x 4k @ 60 Hz via DisplayPort / Thunderbolt 3 so unless Thunderbolt 5 / USB 4 v2 enabled higher resolution either in a single large curved monitor with dual 8k resolution or 3 x 8K @ 60+ Hz there isn't any incentive to upgrade for me (6k is only half an upgrade). 140 W charging isn't enough for high-end laptops but it's also kinda pointless if you need to dedicate a Thunderbolt port for charging, or need a dedicated device plugged into a power and now feed power via daisy chaining the rest of your system. What device do you plug into the wall? PSU?
I'm not upgrading anything until USB D V.10 mark 9 PD over air 9x4 lane is finalized.
Thunderbolt 5, aka. USB 3.2 gen. 2x2 v.2.1
Thunderbolt is reliable when the drivers work.. also, vendors must get it right too in order to reach level of reliability and speed- something we looked in disappointment in the past.
now I want some chips
Don't worry, USB/Thunderbolt 6 might unify the standard (assuming Intel opens up Thunderbolt more)
With how it connects to monitors as well, I wouldn't be surprised if DisplayPort and HDMI get replaced by Thunderbolt (USB cables) entirely, even if DP and HDMI have a protocol within the USB cable.
HDMI has a handshake protocol so that it knows the capability of the device it's plugged into for DRM, you could theoretically do it with thunderbolt but would probably introduce latency.
be great if the plugs in USB C phones didn't wear out after 3 years, and that's with a phone that has wireless charging... or is this just a oneplus 8 pro issue
I wonder if we can one day replace standard plugs/outlets with just a USB-style connector to power most home devices
No. That would mean a 300x power increase of what the best usb c charger can do rn. You can't push that power through such tiny pins without a fire starting.
This shows me that my next laptop is at least a year away
It is USB type C :)
Thunderbolt is what USB should be.
What's the point of a standard if everything is optional..
commenting from 2042 daily driving my daisy chained five 8k displays with thunderbolt 8
God...USB...Why... It's like the Xperia naming scheme.
99% of users don't know what the hell is Thunderbolt 4, now Thunderbolt 5 came out LOL
Oculink is where it's at
except thunderbolt being built-in to intel's chipset and using a USB-C port means it will be included in more devices far faster. better yet because USB-C ports are tiny you have a good chance of finding a device that has more than 1 port.
Who else is holding out for the Thunderbolt 5 > ADC adapter?
how do some people still mix gigabit with GIGABYTE these days?
USB-C connector is the second worst connector. The only worse connector is micro-USB. The best connector is the lightning. It clicks in distinctively and is held securely in the port. It's also smaller than USB-C.
Would USB C be powerful enough to power an extension lead?
the USB guy strikes again!
a gaming router will look nice next to your gaming faucet and gaming toilet