James O'Brien and Nick Ferrari disagree over private school tax | LBC
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 бер 2024
- 'Labour does not understand private schools' says Gillian Keegan.
The Education Secretary accused Labour of an 'ill-thought through' approach towards the independent sector.
Nick Ferrari agrees. James O'Brien doesn't. It gets interesting.
Listen to the full show on Global Player: app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/...
#JamesOBrien #NickFerrari #Labour #Conservatives #Debate #LBC
LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK.
Join in the conversation and listen at www.lbc.co.uk/
Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: l-bc.co/signup
For every child who has to leave private schools into the state system there are 2 Tory voters who will suddenly start to care for the public school system.
except diane abbott, she'd have probably sent her child abroad ?
Ye because public schools are great. Cant tell the difference between a man and a woman. If you can afford it don't send your kids to public schools.
@@keirmitchell5560most public school kids and tutors don't care whether it's a male or female their fiddling with anyway.
So what's your point?
@@keirmitchell5560 I'm impressed that you managed to make this transphobic
You do realise that public schools are private schools?
Schools are literally crumbling over our precious children's head's while the richest people in the country are complaining that they might have to pay some tax.
Why don't they try sending their children to school where they are tax registered.
Its not the richest people in the country though - its working class people that spend their hard earned cash on their children's education over holidays abroad. I send my children to a private school in the northeast. It's not like Eton or anywhere like that. I work in the NHS as a paramedic - not quite the richest people eh?
@@borgtraining No, it's the richest people in the country. I'm sick of having to pay more tax so that people like you can buy a luxury product, VAT Free.
I'm sick of the Tories, supported by people like you, who underfund my kids' state school while the school your kid(s) go to enjoys luxury facilities, paid for by the mega wealthy parents of your kid's friend's parents.
@MartynThomas1 cost you as a tax payer of @borgtraining using a private school is zero. The cost if they send their child to a regular school is the percentage of £7450. If they take their child out of the private school that is how much it costs the tax payer. The average private school costs £20000 a year, assuming 20% is added to all of that, which wouldn't be the case as some parts of the fee would still be tax exempt, the vat would be £4000. They are saving you money, they are also employed so paying tax to send other people's children to school. This isn't a financial issue, this is socialist vs capitalist, they are trying to manipulate you, both sides, see it as an emotional leaver to get you worked up and voting.
They just arnt 😂
@@peyzah2289 literally everything you have said is either financially naive or just plain wrong. Assuming your VAT value (£4k) is correct and just guessing that 10% drop out of the private system as a result of the tax, then the net revenue increase per 100 pupils will be £360,000 and the net cost would be £74,500, assuming that it does cost £7450 per child added to a state school (£1000 is more accurate).
So the financially are very clear - it will result in a net increase in the tax take.
You are right that it isn't "just" a financial issue. It's also an issue of social and tax fairness.
Private schools should be taxed far higher than "ordinary" luxuries, in the same way that luxury cars are taxed far higher than ordinary cars.
The nepotistic "old school tie" needs to be replaced with a system of meritocracy.
James is right, Nick is wrong.
Mmm no, clearly as we all know "the poor deserve to be poor, the rich becoming poor is cause for concern as it shows decline, poor people becoming poorer is barely decline, 1 to 0 = -1 effect instead of 10 to 4 = -6 effect!" /s
That's pretty much a rule to live by !😂
They were in accordance on locking up the unvaccinated
@@roberthorne9597😂😂😂
Another busy day in the office Thomas?
Nick says his parents worked dam hard and didn't go on holiday or get loft conversions, so they could afford to send him to private school. The thing is, many people nowadays work dam hard, don't go on holiday or get loft conversions and can't afford to eat.
Abolish private schools. If rich kids have to go to state schools the government will actually put in the investment needed.
All kids, rich or poor, deserve the best education and life opportunities!!
Agreed - but that is what the point Ferrari was making. If you abolish the Private schools tomorrow, where do all those kids go?
@@Suspended4thYTwell it won’t be tomorrow will it silly! It would be a smooth process over a few years
@@Suspended4thYTyou would immediately see the budget for schools/education skyrocket.
This is the way to do it. Labour half measure will just make things worse.
Either abolish private schools or leave it as it is. This is a worst of both worlds policy from Labour.
The country needs the money. It is high time this lie is put to bed. They aren’t charities.
The benefit to the exchequer is actually -3%, once we account for the increased need to state school places needed. James is wrong.
There's one in my town. I can assure you it's not a charity. It's packed with overseas pupils - especially from China - whose familes pay a small fortune for them to attend.
Lucas, what you’re saying doesn’t make sense. The average VAT per student would be £5k. A state school place cost about £7.2k. So how much the private school sector need to shrink to make this a net negative impact?
@@lucasmoreno5330 are you just another tory liar? We're sick of you.
If you think there is a 3% hit to the treasury, then you know an awful lot about how parents will adjust their buying behaviour, which nobody actually knows.
If the number in private education is so small, why are there so many privately educated MPs?
That proves the point , if you want the best , you have to pay for the best.
The same reason that there are so many Bankers in HoC. They are there to protect the interests of their class
🙌👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Because they are unfairly advantaged by their education and their background.
@@ashleysewell5959 We’re certainly having to pay for the ‘best’!🙄
Nick should retire He's soooo out of touch
Extremely embarrassing host.
He’s there to say what his audience want to hear. He keeps the unreasoning gammon happy.
A dinosaur, with old fashioned views
I actually appreciate Nick. Even though I vehemently disagree with 95 % of what he says, there is a value of having someone clearly conservative who is still willing to call out their own side, e.g. the other day with Badenoch.
James is sweating and flustered by the fact he sends his kids to private school. Champagne anyone?
Have they tried not eating avocado and cancelling their Netflix subscription? I've been told by the same people that if I did that, I'd be able to afford a mortgage.
or just get a better job. or work harder. then you can pay the VAT
Eat the rich instead.
Socialism for the rich capitalism for the poor.
@@patrickporter1864 I don’t understand your comment.
Please could you expand on this.
Private schools make millions in profits so they could cover the cost.....so lets see if the rich want to help the rich
What Ferrari doesn't mention is that 10% of fee paying students at UK public schools are from overseas. They also benefit from the tax free status of their education...Of course this cotangent are unlikely to burden British state schools with their presence.
Will use the NHS too.
Now look at unis.
@@tmarritt why look at unis? Foreign uni students pay nearly 30k per year and subsidise UK students.
@@actuallypaulstanley If you not a UK resident you have to pay for NHS treatment.
Eton certainly doesn't teach empathy and humanity, judging by the examples of ex-students we see in government.
They do and they do it very well.. Unfortunately, along with all the scientists, musicians, actors and social justice warriors, there are a class of people who think they can act like clowns and get away with things and while the clever kids are busy getting on with their work, they've taken over the country.
Here in the Netherlands we don't have private schools.......
Well AcTUAlly;
there are the Luzac colleges, you know, when you flunked your exams etc. so fee paying schools is seen more as thing like; daddy pays so junior can still get that specific exam result that daddy dearest wants. For when junior isn't as intelligent as the parents had hoped for. And mostly used for repeating the last year of secondary school.
and then there are the American schools, mostly in Amsterdam & Den Haag, those are for the children of diplomats.
there's a former castle that's a fee paying school, it happens to be near me & is almost unknown, very private, with a moat.
But yeah, by & large people simply send their children to normal schools. That are funded. And not on the brink of collapse like in the UK where roofs are falling on patients & doctors...
Nick is an excellent example of what a private education does. Educate a mediocre person far beyond their intelligence and give them the confidence and the opportunity to land a job that would be beyond the wildest dreams of someone educated in a state school.
Spot on!
I think James is the person you are describing
@@tonyhague7805the difference is, pal, James admits that's the case unlike Nick who just can't own up to the fact.
@@Zellig66 So he can step aside and let someone from a normal background who has experienced the real world take the airtime? What a real show of character that would be? Or is he just another champagne 🍾 socialist who tells others he understands? I think I know the answer. I prefer the crude honesty of someone who says what they really are and you can then judge them openly. For the record I wouldn't vote tory or labour because they are all the same. James is a sales rep for Labour
@@tonyhague7805You have a lot to learn about objectivity, morality and avoiding the use of clichés.
I never 'sired' children, but that doesn't stop me from commenting on the innate inequality of advantaging ones own children over others using an excess of money to do so. In a sense it's denying ones own society of the talent which will always be smothered by poverty/lack of money at the most necessary developmental time. It's, in it's own mild but still uncivilised way, the law of the jungle - me and mine before you and yours. Fine if it's a straightforward academic competition, but not if A. can pay x thousand more £s than B. in advancing their pride and joy. It's not even a moral question - it's removing a tax loophole through which tax evaders are allowed to be tax avoiders by a government which protects those who are likely to vote for it. We'd scorn the practice if it was done in some third world autocracy, yet here, people like Ferrari are attempting to tell people like me that the ball is in the middle cup. He's either a shyster or a halfwit. Shyster if he's trying to convince us we don't understand private schools or halfwit if he believes his nonsense.
It’s immoral to have two different types of education, one for rich people and one for everyone else. If a country (and it’s rich elite and its powerful employers and its government) wants to have a decent classroom for THEIR children, then pay some tax and make EVERY classroom decent. Schools should be cathedrals, education should cost the country more than it spends on palaces and mega yachts. Teachers should be payed like bankers. At least as well as the ones who collapsed the economy with their greed.
People are entitled to spend their money how they wish - that's just how demomcracy works - but........ are you allowed to buy a better outcome for your children when others cant? Add VAT or lose charitable status, they arent a charity - they provide a service for money.
Is it immoral that rich people can buy safer cars than poor people? Yes. Should we make everyone have the same things? NO.
@@mustrumridcully3853 so if not a charity and as they are businesses for profit, not a service provided for by the state therefore they should be taxed appropriately. Add VAT and lose the charitable status . . . abolish them!
@@drummingtildeath The price of a car includes a tax element. Car manufacturers are there for profit, as are private schools.
@@bikingbirder2010 I'm responding to the idea that private schools are immoral. The point about paying tax is fine.
Abolish private schools, and while you are at it, abolish faith schools.
Yes! Agreed.
No need to abolish them, but churches etc should also lose their tax exempt status.
Amen!
I went to a free Catholic Grammar that has more nobel prize winners than Eton. Faith schools are just better. If you want to stop them it's because you have reddit brain.
So dump 600,000 children, on the state system... sure that will end well.
If someone can't support their kids in public school without support they shouldn't have them. That's what true Conservatives believe.
They shouldn't be classed as charities either.
If they cant afford it maybe they should cut back on take aways, coffees, avocados and Netflix.
Yep, and if they can't afford VAT on private school fees, then they shouldn't have had Kids!
@@robbie9629
I didn't actually know there was VAT on children 😂
Exactly! Stop getting Starbucks and avocado toast and pay the VAT! 😂
@@brianferguson7840 There isn't. The VAT is on private school fees. No real confusion.
😂😂 Bet they can all afford the latest iPhones, TV's and cars.
Boohoo someone who earns more in a week than I will in my entire life can't afford to send both their kids to public school? Oh the inhumanity of it all.
More politics of envy, my son goes to a state school, but I don’t begrudge other parents that right.
@@iaing9028you should be envious that wealthy elites hoard wealth and keep you poor.
Well then the parents who now can’t afford private school should have the same outlook as you
@@iaing9028 funny people say politics of envy rather than politics of inequality.
@@hunsler1006Exactly. They say that because they don't have an argument.
20 of 57 Prime Ministers were educated at Eton. In 2019, 41% of Conservative MPs had attended an independent school (Labour, 14%), as compared with 5.4% of the general population who received public schooling - the difference in the percentages was probably even greater when the MPs actually attended school. Who said money doesn’t buy advantage?
The Duke of Wellington hated Eton and attended it for only 2 to 3 years. This was about the same amount of time he attend a military academy in france. I wonder which had the greater effect on his career despite the old saying that the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton.
It is very very simple, if you cannot afford the VAT on your private school fees, don't send your kids there. Don't you dare winge and moan about it when there are actual people who cannot afford a school uniform.
Some people can’t afford school dinner.
@@woodentie8815 Hopefully we can tax luxury products like private schools and make basic necessities such school food free of charge.
So just because someone else can't afford something means I have to pay more?
Should we put VAT on swimming/sports lesson, music lessons and drama which are paid for outside the state school system. Again these are all things that many people pay for their kids but some can't afford.
@@priyeshlionall those private services are taxed.
Ferarri being wrong about everything as per usual.
I thought the sort of people who send their children to private schools always sneer about personal responsibility? If they can't afford VAT then maybe they can't afford to go private and they can send their children with the rest of the "common" children
Private school's shouldn't exsist in my opinion.
Private schools are the best schools in the UK, please let’s not destroy our best schools private or not, not all private schools are like Eton college, nick is absolutely correct
@@user-vz2nl5en1s they wouldn't cease to exsist. Neither would the teachers.
They would just be available to all regardless of how wealthy the parent is
It's mad isn't it. Essentially a nice way of saying segregated education.
There are no private schools in Finland. They have the best state education on the planet. Why? Because all the rich people have to send their kids to there, so they make sure that the schools perform as highly as possible. Imagine a couple of millionaires on the board of governors of every comprehensive in the country.
Private school's shouldn't need to exist if schools were properly funded, teachers paid well enough to retain them in the school keeping class sizes down, and school could afford decent equipment and materials.
If Nick's contention is Labour don't get private schools, will he concede the other side: Tories don't get state schools? You know, which have 93% of kids in?
I just started watching this channel and I love James's perspective. I especially love how he recognizes his privilege, acknowledges it, and tries to look beyond it
Simple...if you cannot afford it, like the vast majority cannot then tough! Welcome to the real world the rest of us are forced to live in
Do people send people to private schools because they are better,does this not prove the point that there’s unfairness in the education system
Isn't that what James said in the video?
The “unfair” claim is a muddy, unhelpful term. You could make that claim about paying for fancy holidays, or piano lessons, of elite sport training or personal tutoring. All of those things are “unfair”, in that they are all steps up, leading to a disparity in outcomes.
Whos fault is that. The loony left in their weird ideologies
@@wolfnipplechipsyes but none of the things you mentioned are institutional
@@wolfnipplechips So, because one unfairness exists, that means we should keep them all?
Who is the media, the privately educated. Who owns the media the privately educated. Till you get rid of them state schools will not improve because it is not their kids that attend them..
I had to laugh at one of the reasons against taxing private education is given as it would put a strain on state funded grammar schools as if all the children transferring out would be grammar school material.
Well lest face it the leaders of this country went to private school and look at the mess they have made of this country. So they ain’t that clever after all the expense putting them their.
Upper class kids are abandoned by their parents to a cruel, sadistic boarding school and it's OK. If a working class person left their kids playing outside a pub, they'd be prosecuted. Welcome to Britain. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.
Please expand on the playing outside of the pub crime. Im trying to understand the crime
I was shocked at how common place boarding school was in the UK. It exists here, but very rarely and only really in circumstances when its absolutely necessary. But in the UK its very common
@@dannyweaver7322 Child abandonment and neglect. It would, at the very least lead to a Local Authority Safeguarding referral and case conference, with civil action to follow. Persistent offenders are prosecuted and, in some cases, given a custodial sentence. That's why you hardly ever see it now. Boarding school, ie complete abandonment, nothing.
@@PaulK-ve1pu I see your point. Though I wouldn't see boarding school as an abandonment, there is supervision and guardianship.
@@dannyweaver7322 Well, yes. But there's also being buggered and bullied without any means of escape.
My parents told me if you can't afford it, don't have it, it is totally immoral for tax to support private education! The tories need to go now, into history and never come, there are a shameful movement and please Nick Ferrari, how dare you tell me I don't understand what's going on here, its pathetic
You don't understand what's going on here. Your tax does not in any way support private school education. It's actually the parents that send their kids to private schools, who contribute more in tax, contributes to the state schools, even though their children don't use those facilities. If anything, parents that remove their children from the state school system, thus placing less burden on local authorities, should actually be rewarded for doing so.
How does Ferrari know that 10% of public school students will no longer be able to go to public school?? He's just plucked that number out of the air.
It's more like 40-60%, especially in the smaller independents.
@@XLatMathsMy heart bleeds for them
He pulled that number from somewhere but it wasn't fresh air.
@@support_people_not_evil No, it would be silly to give taxpayer money to those that can't quite afford the fees. Instead, they should be motivated to work harder, by giving the taxpayer money to those that can already afford them. While some leftist extremists might argue that this is unfair, their complaints can be countered by referring to woke trans people in small boats.
@@tomonetruthplease tell me how the amount one earns is related to the diligence and effort in which they work
I agree with Nick, it's a choice: but whatever you pay for, your choice, you have to pay VAT! Why are private schools excluded?
Not every child has that choice. Do you think it is right to unfairly disadvantage some children?
As long as Vat is paid, I have no problem.
If it’s a choice can any parents choose to send there kids to private schools? No they can’t, it’s only a choice for the privileged.
You say you agree with Ferrari yet you say they should pay vat, yet Ferrari doesn't think they should pay vat.
I choose not to buy a Bugatti veron..... Penny dropped yet?
I’m a tutor of maths and physics and a 1/3 of my students are from private schools. What on Earth is going on with the private sector
The parents have the money to artificially raise their kids natural level of grades. Simple maths there 👍
I think private schools should be abolished as I do private health. They give unfair advantage to people. You should not be able to have better life outcomes just because you/your parents can pay extra. If we all used the state sector there would be more pressure and more resources for it to deliver excellent outcomes for all. It is also important for class mixing and social cohesion. So that we all understand each better and can make friendships across the class divides.
Agree wholeheartedly.
This is exactly the world neo liberalism has created. Money can buy literally anything
Yeah, but nowadays they'd have to think seriously about whether or not they could afford to fill the moat. Breaks my heart.
Private schools are not charities, why should they be tax exempt. They are private businesses and should pay VAT.
Real aspiration would be to make state schools not crumbling and broke.
But the tories don't want every child to be intelligent because later on they wouldn't vote for them hence the state of crumbling schools.
Nobody thinks of the suffering private school parents...
Also, the idea of saying that because we would have problems fitting in these kids it's bad policy.... What about killing free school meals, how many people would that affect, what about the amount of children not able to get healthcare now... or kids starving in the UK, 600k may be affected, the point is that they are not at starvation yet, meanwhile "four million children may go to school with an empty stomach in the UK"... just saying.
Don't have kids if you can't afford them. Otherwise the kids suffer
@@enoch6450I love kids but I couldn't eat a whole one.
I switched Nick off this morning, I was so annoyed. How about we fund State education properly?
How do we pay for the improved funding? The country is debt ridden and almost at 100% debt to GDP!
@@LA-fr7fx Tax the rich.
@@LA-fr7fxHalf ferrari 's lunch allowance.
@@LA-fr7fxwealth tax, capital gains tax, vat on private education
This government squanders the money that it has at its disposal. Even if they do tax the rich more, do you really think that you will see an improvement in schools or the NHS? We need some proper accountants to come in and find out where all the money is going, it certainly isn't on education, NHS or the armed services, it's all going in their back pockets.
No surprises that the private school boy who got a leg up in life is against a fair playing field and funding for schools that currently have 30 - 40 kids a class.
Nick is absolutely right about people having to forgo getting a new Jaguar for swan hunting season in order to afford school fees. I've already had to drive the same Range Rover down to Glyndebourne for the past two Pergolesi recitals.
I feel your pain. Hang on in there 🙏
Thoughts and prayers!
We had to raise everyone's rent to send Esmeralda to school last year and now my wife is sleeping with Abdul, the window cleaner! I can't believe how the Conservatives have let me down. Something about asylum seekers!! I'm voting reform!
@@alfsmith4936 There's something seriously wrong with the country when parody and reality are SO closely aligned.
Don't the hoi polloi realise that we have art portfolios to maintain alongside school fees?
What's more, twice a week now we have been eating leftover peacock and everyone knows that cold game matches awfully with a casual midweek 2016 Paul Jaboulet Aîné Hermitage La Chapelle.
If we got rid of private education, money would suddenly flow to state funded schools as the sharp elbowed middle classes made it an election issue. The flow on effect would be that children who can only afford to go to local state schools would get a better education and all children would mix with a greater diversity of people.
I think diversity would help eliminate the myth that people on welfare are scroungers, etc. If you have to interact with people who do not have your lived experience, then you will begin to see the truth.
An improved education for everyone (not just a small section) has unsurprisingly shown to improve a country's GDP quite considerably. You'd think the economic 'geniuses' in the government would know that and invest heavily in it, especially as the productivity of young people is becoming increasingly vital in our ageing population. There is literally no down side to better education for all.
The same is with Grammar schools, 90% of children are classed as failures in areas with them. The other schools are not comprehensives.
If you take the numbers... The vat from these private business.. Might drop 50/60k children out of independent schools. But that 1.7b could fund 200 thousand state school students.
A bit too socialist innit. Us Brits want to pay for our dentist, NHS treatments and soon public school fees
@@chrisj9700 Make your pick from Scandanavian countries, Spain, Portugal. Britain 1935-1941. Things you still enjoy today such as the NHS were derived from that socialist government. Libya was a successful socialist country particularly by African standards until we invaded it. You need to read more
Only 5.9% of UK children attend private schools. The majority of families who use them would not be affected by a VAT payment increase so badly that they would pull their children out and put them in the state sector.
that is not true , we know because in the last economic turndown enrolment collapsed indicating these parents are price/economy sensitive they are not mostly millionaires
@@chrisj9700 Aren't 93% of parents already being 'punished' by not being able to afford school fees (the majority of which are per annum over the average mean salary for UK workers)? How is adding VAT any more a case of 'punishing' parents? All it's doing is pricing out a 'higher class' of parent that the vast majority of us who already can't afford such fees.
People like you and Nick simply want to keep up with the Jonese and ensure that upper-middle-class parents are able to rub shoulders with the multi-millionaires, never mind the fact that the vast majority of us 'make do' with state school.
Ah but, yeah but, the government is full of privately and university educated people who have, and still are, neglecting schools by underfunding them, that's why they are crumbling and falling down. Profits are the only thing tories are interested in.@@chrisj9700
@support_people_not_evil This vitriolic response is not an adult contribution to the conversion.
@chrisj9700 Your second reply does not make sense. Private Schools do not "provide a public benefit by saving the government money." I'm almost insulted if you think anyone else would believe that; the opposite if you actually believe that.
Simply put, imagine if all the money not paid in private school fees didn't just disappear into thin air but instead for every student so placed some of that money saved went into funding for schools across the board. How do you figure that scenario is costing the government money? It's a wild world where two plus two equals four, isn't it.
If all those kids had to go to state school it would cost the government more and you would have to pay more tax einstein your not@support_people_not_evil
I have no issues with parents sending their kids to Private schools. However, they shouldn't expect tax payers to subsidise them. And yes they do pay for State Schools but its their choice not to use them. If I have to pay VAT why shouldn't they?
If MPs had to by law send their kids to state schools and use the NHS, there wouldn't be a crisis with RAAC and you just watch schools and hospitals improve.
💯
NF 0 JOB 1...
NFs 0 JOB 2 - Are you forgetting the Nigel Farrago interview?😬
@@woodentie8815 back atcha. The fawning John Bercow interview, not to mention O'Brien's disgusting promotion of Carl Beech.
Private education is feeding the wrong system for the right reason. That is not an acceptable direction in which to go.
As far as I’m concerned they shouldn’t exist, we should have one education system that we are all then invested in.
Just to clarify its the private schools that should not exist and not children in general?
Ferrari's argument sounds legit at first listen until you start to ponder it properly. Then you realise how flawed it is.
James went to Ampleforth, York. And I also attended a public school, lower down the range. Two present Tory MPs also went to my former school. I was there because I had a scholarship. I paid my self through university. I bought my house. I consider myself working class. I relate to Keir Starmer.
NF 0 JOB 2
Ferrari is totally wrong.
But parents who send their children to public school save tax payers state school money.
It doesn't matter which private school kids are sent too. If parents can't afford the Vat they shouldn't be sending them to private school
That really is the stupidest comment in here. If you can’t afford 20% more than what your paying then you shouldn’t spend the original 100%. Excellent maths mate.
@@peteriles3020 The point is if you can't afford to pay the proper fees which should include VAT on top then you cannot afford to send your kids to private school. We ALL pay VAT on luxury items, the clue is in the name 'value added' and if a privileged private education isn't 'value added' I don't know what is.
@@gordoncharles741 I’ve paid school fees for 14 years. I pay what the invoice says. The current situation is that VAT isn’t applied to school fees therefore I don’t pay it. It’s not illegal or immoral, it is the current situation. Valued Added Tax is added to pretty much everything so your argument about Private School Fees being ‘value added’ is incorrect. If the Labour Party choose to add VAT to the fees then I will pay it, and I hope they add VAT to all educational costs such as University Fees as that is also a personal choice for people.
James is always throwing jabs to nick and rightly so 😂
O Brien used to throw jabs at everyone a few years ago. Those who listened anyway
We used to rub wood together to make fire your point is?
@@leckstar100x9 Trouble is O’Brien’s jabs always miss.
@@chrisj9700 It’s O’Brien’s MO though. A cheap shot that you can’t reply to. Why else is his daily show just a vacuous echo chamber appealing to those within his vile cult?
Make them pay VAT.
If every politician had to send their children to state schools they would be fully funded. Well maintained and teachers would be well paid.
This policy needs to be across universities also, as James can’t talk about unfair advantages when those going to university are in affect getting a tax break for private education
Whatever you think of Keir Starmer, for a kid to come from a 'bog standard' working class background to becoming the head of the Crown Prosecution Service and most likely the Prime Minister of Great Brighton is absolutely stunning.
That is why I am voting Labour🎉
Is your Brighton reference a joke or a mistake.
Perhaps, but he did NOT go to a bog-standard comprehensive school!
Listen and learn Nick.
If these parents can't afford to send their children to private school they should stop buying coffees every day and eating avocado on toast!
2 + 2 = 4 at public school and private school. This isn't about education, it's about snobbery, social position and a ticket into an elite crowd.
I'll let my P A answer that one thank you very much.
Nonsense. I send my child to private school because it offers experiences and opportunities that state schools don't. I attended both and the difference is night and day. My state school didn't even have any kind of sports team...whereas I had endless opportunities to play all kinds of sports at private school. That's just one example.
@@BurnCKC whatever you need to tell yourself. Even if I could, I wouldn't send mine to one. I'd rather he EARNED his own way instead of running with the type of people who only live by "connections". Even though it's a silly idea, I still live believe in merit. Also, most public schools where I live offer plenty of sports programs, but rowing and lacrosse, no. You know, real sports like football, basketball etc. Where us poor folks all had to go was probably 20 times more fun anyway. Most the private school kids I knew growing up were miserable and wanted to go to school with us. Some even came over in early high school.
@@BurnCKCSounds excellent. Everyone should have the same.
Private schools will not dissapear if VAT is added, lots of people will still pay or the schools will have to reduce their fees. We should not be subsidising the comparitivly wealthy.
Ferrari: "I was fortunate enough to have gone to a private school" ...
Me: no way!!! I would never have believed it 😮😮😮
Private schools are ment to be charities so they should start acting like it, lots more partnerships with state schools, run after school/weekend classes/sport activities etc.
If they dont do it satisfactorily add vat.
Private schools...Most of them registered charities and enjoy not paying council tax among other perks. Remove the charitable status away from schools. Simple. Pay your way
Amazing how two presenters on the same station, who both went to private school, can have two polar opposite views on this. Personally, I think Ferrari is the one who doesn’t understand.
No mate, James just got passed around like the a collection plate. It's fundamentally damaged it.
@@ashleysewell5959Ferrari is the damaged one.
If they can't afford it, they should have thought about that before having kids ! 😂Or they should pull themselves up by their boot straps 😂
And feed themselves on 30 pence a day.
James hits the nail on the head. Those who claim "I work hard/my parents worked hard to give my children the opportunity to go to private school" expose themselves as not considering those in low(er) paying sectors to be hard workers.
It suggests that anyone who cant send their kids to private school would be able to if they just worked a little harder. As if the average tuition fees of £16k isnt half of the average salary (~£34k).
Well done, James. Thank you for standing up for those that are the most disadvantaged in our society.
Having committed to the Private sector costs, most parents will find the extra 20% for the school fees portion of the overall cost. . The true cost of going private is the base cost of schooling (which could be subject to VAT) and the extras such as school trips, ski holidays, school bus transportation etc (which probably won't be affected by the tuition based VAT proposals). in addition, there is also the 'status symbol' that many parents will find too appealing to be able to relinquish anyway.
A lot of the public schools started off as schools for poor kids, so if that were still the case then the charitable status would be justified but it's not so it shouldn't be so.
My sister went to a private school, I went to a state school.
My sister got top grades and went to a Russell Group University, I had above average grades and went to a former polytechnic.
My sister felt confident doing job applications and interviews, I struggled.
That's not to say there aren't anomalies, I've had more steady jobs and own my own house for instance, but whenever my sister was made redundant, she could start a new job within a week or two and found job interviews easy. I was made redundant back in October last year and I was stressed for an entire month and fumbling every interview I had.
Lets ban private music lessons, because we can't all afford them.
A bit harsh but okay. Let's fund music in state schools better instead.
Private schools should not exist. All of our children should have a quality education.
The UK is a mess
I still don’t get why Labour have to DESTROY what works well? This country has a world renown reputation for excellence in this field. Why damage further one of the (diminishing ) things this country does well?! Talk about shooting your self in the foot….
The analogy I draw is the Premier League in England, where I remember people saying there were too many foreigners, and we had to put a cap on them, to then bring more English players through. Thankfully we did NOT put a cap on foreigners (thereby destroying the standard of the league), but we instead invested more into the youth of the country to bring the standard up in indigenous players.
Destroying private education in order to improve the state school system should not be mutually exclusive
Labour are proposing removing tax exemption. Nothing more.
The unfair advantage is that VAT relief on private school education is even remotely available!
600k private school kids? How about we change private school status to the businesses they are instead of the charities they masquarade as.
Now the toffs will say "but that won't raise any money"
Actually.... 600,000 × £30,000 annual fee is £18bn. 40% VAT is £7bn ish.
The tutors at public schools are well paid and don't need to go on strike for better conditions and better remuneration, unlike the teachers of other schools, who incidentally are underpaid.
Is this a new punitive rate of VAT? I thought it was 20% for most things, with 5% for home energy and some other.
@@stephenlee5929 yes, private schools are corrosive to society and NHS as cigarettes. 40% vat on private schools fees. Tax like a luxury item
Yes 40%, tax it like cigarettes and alcohol
@@jzilla1234 so not bat then?
They can afford it. They just don't want to pay it. They will find a way.
And your evidence for that is exactly what?
In every other sector of the economy if you increase the price of something by 20% the chances are demand will go down. In the context of private schools that means people will remove kids from private school and instead put them into the state sector schools.
Labour's argument is that school fees are "sticky", that is a legitimate economic argument, but we used to think it applied to addictive goods such as cigarettes and alcohol. The evidence from Scotland at least in relation to alcohol suggests that alcohol demand is a lot less sticky following tax based price rises than was thought 10-15 years ago.
James was being particularly idiotic. The issue is never about "think of the parents...". The issue is whether or not the policy of adding VAT onto private school fees makes economic sense. Labour contends that the amount raised will exceed the extra costs that the State will incur having to educate kids who are removed from private schools or would otherwise have gone to private schools. The argument against putting VAT on private school fees is that the reverse will be true. It should be particularly clear that raising £1.6b a year in extra VAT is a very bad economic idea if it results in having to spend an extra £2b a year on expanding the State Sector to cope with increased pupil numbers
But even when James talked about private schools are for "buying an advantage" for your kids he is being hypocritical. If he wants to stop parents "buying an advantage" he should also state that he is for abolishing private tuition, abolishing state schools selecting based on closeness of home to school (house prices are just another way of buying an advantage), he should be against people paying for private music tuition or sports tuition for kids who have talents in music or sport. Then when he has done all of that he would need to be for abolishing people's right to buy better quality food for their kids than someone else because it has long been the case that quality of nutrition influences academic performance, and of course no parent should ever buy more than the state approved number of books for their children because that is "buying an advantage". In the end James came across as just another left wing activist whose views have not changed since the 1970s and is obsessed with class in a way that only those with similar left wing activists do.
@@justinstephenson9360The IFS have looked at this and decided that the take for the govt will be a net gain of 1.3 billion. The schools don't have to pass the vat on, it's their choice. The fact remains why should these businesses get a free pass on paying this tax? Govts change and policies change and this is a fair and just policy. If certain parents can't find the money, just do what the tory ministers tell all those on a low income to do... Get a second job or another job.
@@royboy565 The IFS is biased politically. I would not trust their figures any more than I would trust figures from The Telegraph. But again it is based upon the demand for private school places being significantly insensitive to a 20% price rise. On basis that Lab victory (by a lot) is the bookies betting favourite, can we agree to watch this space and see what actually happens when the policy is introduced. I am betting on chaos, not immediately but after 3 years and that the policy eats cash rather than generates revenues
If private schools increase classroom sizes with 20% the wouldn’t need to increase their fees and class sizes would be the same as a state school.
Here is a different angle - we had our only son rather later in life. We decided we wanted to send him to a private school in Edinburgh, we visited a couple and even placed a deposit on preschool in order to guarantee a place in the primary school. At 3 our son was given a diagnosis of autism. The private school couldn’t provide the additional support and we ended up dealing with the council for 2.5 hours a day specialist support. Then at 5 we ended up in a local primary school that had a supported unit within the main school. Now my point is it was the council that supported our son with both the early support and the local primary school. Both have been excellent with our son but this kind of support is expensive and that is why it was left to our local council with the private school not willing to provide this level of support due to cost. We are so happy with our public school and grateful for the state support that we have been provided. Our son is blooming and we are all looking forward to the future. No private school could have help him this much. So our views have changed with regards to private and VAT should be paid in order to then use this in the public schooling.
All the polls say labour's policy is right. Why should they get away with not paying the tax?.
Public opinion only counts when it's in favour of their agenda, like the Brexit referendum - suddenly it's set in stone and "they can't go against the will of the people".
If they can’t afford the VAT they need to get a better paid job or get a second job, right Tory’s? 😉
Or use supermarket own brand food?
This is the same nick who said we dont need as many railway workers and then had a soppy recant of thag statement when he was in crutches and got great help at the train station and said these workers are amazing.
The guys opinions are biased until he finds himself in the vulnerable position.
Moral of the story nick is usualky wrong and sometimes he even comes round to that conclusion
I had a friend who qualified for an Eaton scholarship, he could not go as the cost of the uniform, was the same as an entire year's wages for his Dad.
Its like choosing to shop at waitrose rather than iceland its called choice!
I miss Netto.
If the parents can't afford the increase due to a VAT charge, then maybe they should work harder, or just live in their means. It's mad that any of us surfs would side with a bunch of people, educated in private schools, telling us that those are a priority over making sure the majority are educated sufficiently. Or you know, just keep the majority smart enough to press the buttons, but not question the establishment.
It's a complete no brainer. Private schools ARE NOT CHARITIES! They should pay VAT. Let the dice fall where they may after that........
If private schools were abolished, youu can bet that the Tories would suddenly invest a lot more money in state schools.
My grandaughter had behaviour problems in state school. She was bored silly because she was too clever for the school which was unable to keep her challenged. (Not a proud grandpa boasting. Both her parents are consultants in their own fields.) They moved her to a private school, and the transformation was amazing. From a petulant, rebellious, misbehaving, difficult child she transformed into a hard working, creative, multi instrumental, cooperative child eager to learn, to join in several after school clubs. As an ex-teacher, I was shocked at the difference in class sizes, amount of equipment, quality of materials and the high standard of the teaching. If all schools could be like this, we would have a very different well funded school population, more motivated and eager to learn.
Better schools for all means a better life for all.
When I we're a lad we used to live in a cardboard box, you tell that to the tories an they'll not believe you.
Wow, I’ve never heard that before!🙄
The tories are the ones trying to ban those who have aspirations of getting out of a cardboard box and getting a tent.
You're lucky I had to hire a cardboard box and could only afford it 3 times a week. The rest of the time I lived in a hole in the road. I owned my own business, a paper shop, but it blew away.
I've watched a few interviews lately where children, now adults recount their time at private schools. Sounds brutal.
Labour and their ‘policies’ have always attracted the flies!
strange...because nearly all Public Schools are Registered as Charities....for tax reasons...so...why don't they allow the pupils to stay on even if the parents can't afford the extra 10%...you know...LIKE A CHARITY.
Ferrari is such a frigging hypocrite, he makes me sick.
He is a Tory the other words come with the package.
James's is in a different class.
No punn intended
@@RUFF-UNITWell it's a school of thought.
If the maths according to nick that 10% of the 7% of children who go to public school give up being sent there because of VAT. that group of children would swamp state schools. Well, 20% VAT on the remaining 90% would more than pay for the extra children to go to state school. Look how much public school fees are and relate those to the money spent per head. A bit of multiplication and you can see how much better off the state schools will be
I wish people would stop calling them private schools. They are "charity schools". The overwhelming majority of them are registered charities and, therefore, get all the tax breaks that other charities do. If they insist on calling themselves private schools then, like any other private business, they should pay the same taxes. Having dealt with such schools in my professional capacity, I know how touchy they are when it is pointed out to them that they are charitable institutions. However, I agree that, if many "privately" educated pupils have to move into the state sector, Labour will need to plan for this contingency.
Common Nick L