Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 тра 2020
- This is a bonus video and not very much related to the usual sensors and microcontrollers. In this series, I want to reach a geostationary satellite and talk to another Swiss guy in Antarctica. If not done so, I strongly suggest you watch the series from the start, as you do it on Netflix.
In the last videos, we built a prototype for the transmitter and learned how we could create a receiver out of standard and quite cheap parts. And we heard stations from the QO-100 satellite
In today’s video, I try to finish the prototype of the Transmitting part by building a 2.4GHz directional antenna, mount it to the dish, connect it to the power amplifier and try to receive our signal through the receiver in Cornwall. The goal is to hear my own voice from the satellite. Exciting!
I am a proud Patreon of GreatScott!, Electroboom, Electronoobs, EEVblog, and others.
My HAMradio channel: / @hb9bla
Links (also from other QO-100 videos:
QO-100: Playlist: • HAM Radio
POTY instruction: • Montage antenne POTY p...
POTY antenna: www.passion-radio.com/satelli...
Adalm Pluto SDR Receiver: amzn.to/3fSQPxk
PLL LNBs: www.passion-radio.com/satelli...
Green LNB (good for external clock modification): ebay.to/2WV3reR
Pre-amplifier: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dUe...
20W amplifier: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dWL...
8W amplifier: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dZt... or amzn.to/2SKoBLv
Power Meter: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Bfg... or amzn.to/35FNdtV
SMA torque wrench: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_d7o... or amzn.to/2zeEG5b
50W Attenuator (not tested): s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dZA...
The links above usually are affiliate links which support the channel (no additional cost for you).
Supporting Material and Blog Page: www.sensorsiot.org
Github: www.github.com/sensorsiot
My Patreon Page: / andreasspiess
Discord: / discord
If you want to support the channel, please use the links below to start your shopping. No additional charges for you, but I get a commission (of your purchases the next 24 hours) to buy new stuff for the channel
My Amazon.com shop: www.amazon.com/shop/andreassp...
For Banggood bit.ly/2jAQEf4
For AliExpress: bit.ly/2B0yTLL
For Amazon.de: amzn.to/2r0ZCYI
For Amazon UK: amzn.to/2mxBaJf
For ebay.com: ebay.to/2DuYXBp
profile.php?...
/ spiessa
www.instructables.com/member/...
Please do not try to Email me or invite me on LinkedIn. These communication channels are reserved for my primary job
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases - Наука та технологія
It’s good to show not every thing goes right. We as humans don’t learn unless we make errors in what we do or errors in how we replicate!
yeah, a lot of babies are unplanned .... ;-)
@Jyv: Please do not mix things up. Sometimes, training is already nice...
I really don't like those replication errors. But, I guess that's how evolution works.
This is a great series. Very small request - please re-order the playlist so that the videos play in the correct order. Put the first video first, right now the last video plays first!
Done! I hope it is ok now.
I am happy that you are not discouraged by it not working. If this stuff worked out of the box then we wouldnt need to do any engineering!
Rest assured: Most of the things on this channel do not work out of the box ;-) My work is to make it work that you can save some time. But here I was not (yet) successful...
I'm amazed of how such a seemingly simple shape can have such interesting RF characteristic
Antennas are truly magic
This is what I thought, too. And who has such ideas to try it the first time???
@@AndreasSpiess Indeed, RF engineers seems to be the closest we can get to wizards
@@AndreasSpiess I do... I think you need to bend it a little bit to get resonance in the centre of the chart, but as long as you have not reversed the polarisation or moved the dish it should work as is. I think the most likely problem is what is being sent and if it's on the correct frequency. I could not really tell your setup from the video. With an 80cm dish you should have no problems with 20W apart from setting off LILA - the signal too strong alert.
Here is a link to the original paper uhf-satcom.com/blog/patch_antenna
@@mikewillis1592 Do you mean the copper pipe wasn't pointing at the center, because from the vid it looked crooked.
@@SidneyCritic No. I meant it was mounted higher than the original LNB and therefore caused an elevation offset
Imaginery "Hats off" to you, to understand and know electronics, 3D modelling, RF, courage to try and learn new things... The force is strong with you.
I am not so sure about the force... Maybe it will reappear next week ;-)
Completely hooked on this project...
So good.
Glad you like it!
So close! Keep up the good work! I eagerly await the next installment of this series!
Thanks! Will do!
Wow, i see that i am not the only maker having bad luck sometimes. But real makers do not giveup thar easily
Keep up the good work
Your dutch follower👍
It is not the first time things do not go as expected. I am 63 ;-)
Yes indeed, interesting and usefull and entertaining too. Looking forward to see the next episode !
Glad you enjoyed it!
I can't wait for the video update. Thanks for sharing your experiments.
I do not know when it will be ready...
Hi me again
I have been working , a long time ago, at Philips RF solutions and i can tell you that design of RF antennas or RF circuits is not a science but an ART!!!!!!
Ron
Fortunately we have cheap VNAs to see a little inside what happens...
Lovely series. Thank you
My pleasure!
Keep up the good work Andreas!
I will!
Very interesting and also very helpful. You saved me some money. Thanks.
You are welcome!
Thanks. Yes RF is black magic and voodoo combined :)
I think the voodoo might even be easier...
Microwave RF is 2 parts science and 9 parts black magic. Which is my way of saying that while RF is Hard, in Microwave RF, the dial goes up to 11! ;)
@@SittingDuc Indeed, our tool kit for working with the plumbing included a G clamp (C clamp?) with balls welded to the clamping faces, used to strategically dent the waveguide to tune it!
Love this series, please keep up the ham radio videos! DE WA1KLI
This will not become a HAM channel. There are many good channels out there... 73 de HB9BLA
Do you ever get funny looks from the neighbours when they see you working on something like this outside? ;)
And they hear the "Mickey Mouse" voices ;-)
Manchmal kann die Fehlersuche interessanter und spannender sein, als das fertige Projekt 😉 73
Da hast du sicher recht. Trotzdem war ich entäuscht :-(
@@AndreasSpiess Ich drücke die Daumen. An der Antennenausrichtung wird's ja nicht gelegen haben. Die Vorgehensweise der Problemlösung wäre sicherlich interessant, sei es als flowchart oder generell als Denkhilfe.
Thanks again !!!
My pleasure!
QO100 for General Public, this videos gonna be followed by many hams...
Best of luck
I do not think it is for general public ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess it will lure them to HAM Spectrum... Hope to see more traffic...
You are amazing :D keep it up :D I will try to do it too after my lets say stuff are finished :D
There is still hope ;-)
Great series, Thanks Andreas
73 de 7X2UV
Great series !! 73
Thank you. 73 de HB9BLA
I learn such interesting stuff from this channel. Today I learned how circular polarization of patch antennas work. When I grow up can I have a Swiss accent too?
I do not know. I got mine when I was very young ;-)
Thank you.
You're welcome!
I can wrap my head around a helix being circular-polarized. You're right, though... if you had not told us that was a circular-polarized antenna, I wouldn't have known it.
I was also told and have to believe it ;-)
If the antenna has too low frequency , shortening dimensions slightly may improve it. But if it is below SWR 2, you may not want to tweak it too much.
BTW, Do other countries call microwave hams "plumbers"? We do in my country (in local language)!
Looking at some magnetic loops, I can also call the non-microwave hams plumbers ;)
Yes, plumbers is used in the UK too
The SWR will not be very good for those antennas because they are a "compromise of two antennas. What I would like to know if it radiates and when, in which polarization...
just keep going Andreas!
I will!
I've never heard you curse before. It was refreshing.
You limit for what is "cursing" is lower than mine, I think ;-)
Really cool! I think the playlist is playing the wrong way around, it starts with this video.
Thank you! I changed it now and hope it is ok.
Love these videos - thanks
Strange looking antenna but if they work - always agree to test the parts individually before testing the whole unit - too many times seen people build something and it dosent work but dont know why - if they tested individual parts that would solve problem
So far it did not work ;-) But I am still confident.
@@AndreasSpiess hope you get it working soon
I thought that hams only do their outside antenna work on super cold days in the winter. Wonder if that has something to do with it not working ? ha ha . I hope you get it hearing and talking soon - even in the nice weather .
I am still confident. But it needs some time to get everything straightened out...
UA-cam search "petes patch antenna" for a full tech inside look. Basically, the patch is a feed for two stacked slot antennas, each slot being a stack of dipoles, so that's a substantial antenna. These go insanely well on HF, as you might imagine - I've run slots on 40/80/160 for a few years now, a very quiet and powerful antenna.
Thanks for the info! I will watch them.
Excellent job explaining the BFM of patch antennas. Antennae?
I had to dig till I found this explanation :-)
I do enjoy your videos and had a thought about rx/tx sats. Have you looked into the HughesNet Radio ODU 1505382-0014? may be a chance.thanks WN5W.
No, I do not know the HughesNet Radio ODU 1505382-0014. I did not find on what frequency it works.
I suppose when you say Cornwall where I live then it's Goonhilly Earth Station?
As mentioned in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and the place of first Satellite communications Telstar.
It was a very interesting site to work on and learn about communications
Yes, it is Goonhilly. But, I assume, only a very little part of it ;-)
Nicholas Tremayne wiki.batc.org.uk/Es%27hail-2_Ground_Station
you said shitty?? 8) kinda caught me off guard!!
all your videos are awesome. thank you so much.
Did I say this? For sure I meant it ;-)
OK - just be careful cos youtube thinks it's a super strong adults only word for some reason. Maybe the bots can't understand Swiss accents yet.
I like antennas a lot.
I am fascinated by them because they don't make sense to me.
And this one in particular. A dipole somehow is ieasier to understand...
👏👏👏
Thank you!
with having the lnb horn off leaving it open affect the rx not having it there like ground plane, just an idea the the single might be pulling back to the dish have on idea really
The concept with the LNB behind the POTY should work. At least for others...
yes i trying to say to you not having it on is it affecting the rf on receive now from Cornwall i.e. does it help carry the other wave to rx ans tx somehow a binary code maybe or a station id am finding it hard to expain your radio hand shake to the satellite or the project do you not need both in place to make contact am asking because in your video the lnb is not attached to the poty and is the polarity the same as not to conflict each other?
YES :)
:-)
Great series, love your work, I wonder why you set the requirement to use only one dish, rf is complicated enough but trying to make one dish work at 2.4 and 10 GHz, tx high power on 2.4 and rx low power on 10 Ghz with concentric antennas, you're brave...
My wife is happier (or less sad) with only one dish ;-)
@@AndreasSpiess ok understood.
hahahaha 1 is wrong.....you kill me :-D
You are probably the only who understood the joke ;-.)
I have to ask: How did you aim the dish without a receiver? It's pretty sensitive, and if the aim was off even a little, it would drop your signal below the satellite's threshold.
Indeed, it is a small dish, but you have only a few degrees for correct aiming. Also when you first ‘aim’ the sat with another lnb and remove it, it is possible that next the 2.4g antenna angle in reference to the dish is not 100% the same as the 10g lnb was. And you are sending to another sat :)
1. I aimed the dish with a working LNB. You are right. it has to be very precise.
2. I tried various directions and positions of the POTY by hand. I assume the dish is less directional on 2.4 because it is much smaller (relatively). But I have to experiment more....
@@AndreasSpiess Cool! You probably know this, but didn't mention it... There are two different circular polarizations - clockwise and counterclockwise. No idea which one the satellite uses, but I think on your antenna you can just swap the leads to reverse it, unlike the helical ones which are one direction only. I'm just as much of an amateur at this as you, so please check before trying that. :-)
Both uplinks are RHCP according to amsat so the patch should put out LHCP, because the signal gets reflected at the dish. The signal drop between linear and circular polarisation is only 3dB, but mixing up LH or RH it can be much more. But he probably already tried both.
Since I bought the POTY parts I assumed it turns the right way. But I do not know.
I didn't voted for it but it's so much what I wanted to see ahaha
Glad you like it!
andreas, I think is time to make a communitary microsat satellite, is hard, i know but we are a bunch of technicians who want to learn more about and the best way to get knowledge is getting practice, just saying maybe i'm crazy cheers
This is nothing for me. Julian and Thomas do this much better than me...
Ah, it's not just me that makes crappy electronics stuff that doesn't work, apparently.....!
Mine just use less expensive parts....
Hope you get it working, Andreas. I have every faith that you will!
Chris G4JHQ
What do you use?
@@AndreasSpiess
Sorry, Andreas, but I was speaking in general terms. I live in Tasmania, and I'm outside the footprint of the satellite. If I WAS going do use the satellite, I'd probably use the GPS clock to lock my transmitter for coherent CW. I expect you could drastically reduce the required EIRP if this method of communication was used. You'd have to set both stations up carefully beforehand, though.
@@AndreasSpiess
Hmm. On second thoughts, that wouldn't work, due to the signal delay in the satellite transponder. Unless, the delay was short, reasonably constant, and the CW baud rate fairly slow, maybe. What do you think?
You need more or less what I describe in my videos. You can reduce power if you are lucky or work with less stable oscillators.
Does the system use a lock-in amplifier? If not can it solve the problem?
I do not know what a lock-in amplifier is :-(
@@AndreasSpiess just Google zürich instruments
Their range is below 1GHz, and I need 2.4 and 10 GHz.... BTW: I still have no idea what they are for...
@@AndreasSpiess In a nut shell, a lock in amplifier is a wonderful device that is used to catch really weak signals (modulating and demodulating a signal after a low pass filter), but I am sure that Wikipedia will be more precise than me in the definition, there are also good explaining videos on UA-cam. You are right, unfortunately the range is not more than 1 GHz, it's not possible to use it at the moment.
At 5:36 of the video, it seems that the antenna is not in the good axis and "shoot" to much to the left.
It depends a lot from where you look. It should have pointed to the middle of the dish, but maybe a little high because of the POTY. In the meantime I corrected the angle.
I suspect, that a spiral signal is not optimal for this application. Also, the position of the dish and the focus are critical. A movement of a degree translates into kilometers into space. In order to get the direction right, the satellite should emit a beacon signal. If not, you could optimize the incoming signal power, but even then, tweaking can take a significant amount of time.
The focus is helping in some way to get things right, but the more it becomes parallel to the dish diameter, the more you are likely to poke holes into space, missing the satellite by units.
You are right with the changed focus. But on 2.4GHz the opening angle is much bigger than on 10GHz. (It works now)
4:43 3D printing too close to the bed causes those ripples. if you aren't getting good adhesion, use glue stick on the bed.
I used up my old PLA and in fast mode because I couldn’t wait ;-)
Ah - I think I see the problem. The antenna is higher than the LNB on the mount. This will change the elevation of the dish. Ideally it needs to be in the same place as the LNB was but you can probably adjust the elevation of the dish to fix this. The standard way to do it is to start with getting the receive positioned right as that's most critical being 10 GHz. If 10 GHz is OK then 2.4 should be close enough.
Thank you for the tip. I tried to change the direction, but I will use your tip and start with the receiver.
I assume it's not as trivial as your 'patch' being clockwise polarised and the satellite being counter-clockwise polarised? Because that would just be annoying. Clearly the next step in debugging is to break it into smaller parts and see if that shows you where the fault lies. Good luck!
That's what I was thinking, perhaps reverse the two cables to reverse the polarisation?
The reflection on the dish should already reverse the polarisation. I would test the antenne on the ground, receive with another SDR and compare the signal strength with another well know 2.4Ghz antenna like a hybriid quad. (or even just a wifi stick antenne, if you have one)
Because I bought the antenna I am quite confident they tested it (of course without my "plumber's" skills. I checked if I assembled it the right way, but for sure have to do more testing. Even if it would be wrongly polarized, I would not lose the whole signal, only a few dB.
Voodoo? Plumbers? RF STOP. Please don't give up!
Too much interest in the topic to give up ;-)
Seems very large for a 2.4GHz patch antenna. Spacing and dialectic is critical
You are right. But I think the measurements are correct because I bought the parts and the resonance is around 2.4GHz.
Front Row First Seat !
:-)
Still in first row, but on the side with comment number 8 :(
No subtittles 😢
The bonus videos do not get subtitles because I assume the viewers are different (more technical) :-( And my translator has not always time...
It is more realistic when things to not go according to plan even if you RTFM :-)
Not exactly related bu. Can you not make a steerable antenna with two antennas at right angles and using phase shift? They have that type of thing with the non rotating, rotating RADAR things. The Americans had one about 10 miles from me. Looked like a large "Wall of Death" circle.
Those are phased array antennae, they typically have tens or hundreds of individual antennae each fed through a digitally controlled phase shifter. A nightmare of wiring, but with the ability to track extremely fast
Such phased antennas have a comeback in the new MIMO routers. And of course, in the 5G antennas where their beam follows each Smartphone. Fascinating technology...
@@AndreasSpiess My only (I was going to say knowledge but) awareness of this is from G4NJU a bit of a guru now gone who explained it with a chuckle now and then. Dave his name was, no idea the other.
... i know what you mean... Murphy also knows.. :/
I am still confident that it will work one day...
read the fine manual, these days it is more watch the video ...
True!