The most hated boss in the entire series
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- Опубліковано 17 лют 2024
- The Bed of Chaos has long been considered one of the worst bosses in a modern FromSoftware game, but how much does it deserve the negativity?
Song used: Sealed Grounds - The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword OST - Ігри
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I actually wrote a rough draft of this video a couple years ago, when I was going through the Dark Souls II object list and found the anchor staff object. I didn't end up making it then, so it just sort of sat on the to-do list this whole time. I had another video idea planned for today that fell through due to technical issues, so it finally ended up being convenient to do this instead.
Ironic the least convenient boss became a convenient video topic huh?
anything you put out is welcomed. easily my favorite souls content
Glad you did it, it's been long enough since I fought this thing that I'd forgotten the finer points of its design. There's a peculiar mix of the Elden Ring wormface and insectile wings in here.
Was the anchor really placed/removed at the bonfire location on Majula? If so, this feels to me as it might have been a dropped concept they picked up again with the minor(?) Erdtrees in Elden Ring.🤔
Umm, Zullo, what means anchor stuff??
Bed of chaos when chair of order walks in
Minos Prime
Chair of order no diffs
mattress of entropy
@@ToxicSoul03 Prepare thyself...
stool of democracy
My tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about the Elden Ring DLC is that the final boss will be against the literal Shadow of the Erdtree, an Erdtree-sized re-imagining of Bed of Chaos.
Oh no
I like to think FromSoftware wouldn't so cruel as to make it just similar enough to Bed of Chaos to cause traumatic flashbacks from Souls vets, but at the same time I fully expect it given the other things FromSoftware has done that cause repeat trauma.
I actually would find it hilarious is if at first glance it looked almost identical to the Bed of Chaos. Just imagining people's reactions to it is very funny.
The entire continent serves as arena and the Erdtree floats across the land to fck you up
They have never missed on a DLC final boss so I hope not
Nah, that doesn’t fit the theme of Elden Ring. It’ll probably be Bed of Chaos Duo.
>run 2 minutes to arena
>get hit into pit
>run 2 minutes to arena
>dodge
>get hit into pit
>run 2 minutes to arena
>block
>success
>hit from behind
>into pit
>repeat
fantastic boss design
You forgot the "block the attack, get pushed into pit anyways" part
@@nintilla9973 my personal favourite is "wait a whole minute for a perfect opportunity and get hit into pit anyway". Also honorable mentions "flawlessly i-frame through her attack only to get pushed into pit" and "try to jump on the root only to slide down to your death".
No, my personal favourite is "don't even get hit by attack, Bed of Chaos slightly shifts its arms and pushes you into pit".
Perfectly describes my experience with her on ng+2 about a year ago. I don’t think I’ve ever been that frustrated at a boss before, or since.
AT LEAST 2 minutes💀
The wild thing is despite how awful this boss is, this is one of the more memorable bosses of the entire series with its setpiece and lead-up. We can all bond over this broken mess of a fight
funy irish man found
funny irish man spotted
If everyone remembers you as a flaming wreck, the important thing is that they do remember you.
The artist formerly known as The Drift King.
They used to call him the Izalis King back in college...
it wouldnt have been *that bad* if it wasnt for the fact that there is literaly ZERO indication where the floor is going to break, 100% of deaths from this boss is gravity
its a bit sad when you remember that Lost Izalith ended up getting the short end of the stick and got Rushed
Pretty much this. If they had marked the crumbling areas and maybe slapped a bonfire more close to the boss, it would have been totally a-okay.
> 100% of deaths from this boss is gravity
Let's not forget the chaos storm it will sometimes summon once you're inside the belly, breaking branches, and there's nowhere to run to. Surprised that wasn't mentioned in the video too.
@@Ashanmaril iirc if you linger too long down there it will spam it until you die.
@@DarthOmix you don’t have to linger, he’ll do it immediately sometimes. It kills runs of speedrunners regularly, it happened at GDQ recently, there’s nothing you can do.
Not to mention the horrible run back to the boss and the knowing that any little mistake is going to result in another annoying run back to the boss
The vibe of Zullie's videos is always so relaxing
Which is odd considering how manny horrifying abominations are in them
legend of zelda ost, slow pacing, and no narration, its a pretty great formula
Str8 fax
Ocarina of Time is my childhood ❤
I’m always grateful for Zullie’s videos. I think all of us are honestly.
In all my playing of Dark Souls I never knew that the Bed of Chaos actually had like, hands and arms and a torso. Always just looked like a bunch of sticks
I always pretend she a maid trying to sweep up the mess before the owners get home, thats why she is in such a hurry to sweep you off the arena 😂❤
@@n8doggy733 hahaha it does look like a giant broom
Many are probably busy with not dying, but watching others fight it or other DS content puts you in a position from which you see the design differently pretty early on.
@@n8doggy733 you are vermin in the living room running circles around her
@@XDarkGreyXIronically I've only experienced DS by proxy but the visual design of the boss and arena are so chaotic (appropriately) that it's hard to make out all their components and I've felt it would be easier if I were playing the game. :P This video is maybe the first time I feel like I've gotten a clear view of it.
I think the biggest issue in the fight has to be the fact that the creature's limbs have active collision alongside their hitboxes. Throughout these games enemy swords and whatnot don't have active collision especially not during attacks because that would result in pushing and dragging the player with them even if you them. So this means even if you get your rolls 100% right, the Bed of Chaos is still gonna hit you with those limbs cuz your model gets dragged by the limbs until you run out of s and it counts as a hit or worse, you get pushed away into one of the huge ground holes and falling to your death.
i've noticed that "don't have active collision, especially not during attacks" is very much _not_ true in ds1. like, sure, the normal sized enemies like the undead and man-serpents let you roll through attacks just fine, but anything the size of a titanite demon, if not larger? even a dodge that s through their attacks will have you nudged around in unexpected ways, and chances are you _don't_ completely through their attack as you get stuck on their unmoving stick and then get blasted back by the meatiest goddamn hitboxes known to man
there's a lot of ways fromsoft has encouraged aggression in their later titles, but one of the subtler ones that nonetheless is _very_ easy to notice immediately when going back to ds1 from something like elden ring is that hitboxes actually expire shortly after an attack should connect. make it a lot more reliable to roll into attacks _towards_ the boss, instead of just rolling through them to get away from the attacks
@@hi-i-am-atan At least DS1 shields are amazing so you can just fat roll your way to victory with full giants as a crystal tower shield will allow you to pretty much never get damaged.
@@hi-i-am-atan I don't think it's that common tbf, to me what immediately comes to mind is Asylum Demon and his reskins which do not feature that on their weapons. The issue I noticed usually that may make it seem this way is just the fact that lock-on dodging being so restrictive in DS1 that you can't dodge to 10/11/1/2 O-clock and instead end up dodging straight forward cuz it's 4-directional of course, so you end up colliding with the enemy's limbs rather than the weapon itself (which also usually has a hitbox since FromSoft are wary about making accidental safe zones in the middle of the swing trajectory next to the enemy model, though that safe zone is there and intentional on some enemies)
In my most recent playthrough I did notice a lot more instances of weapon-collisions on the whole and some nasty lingering hitboxes but the trend is generally that less-damaging shockwave hitboxes are what discourage rolling toward an attack instead of collision I feel, again the demons come to mind be it Asylum and its clones or Taurus Demon.
I think the best place to demonstrate the dichotomy of collisions is in the O&S fight, where regular Ornstein and super Orstein don't have collision on the spear but Smough has collision on the hammer's body alone, both when idling and during attacks (which funnily enough is one of the examples where there *is* an intended safe zone next to the boss, making attack trajectories donut-shaped danger zones almost lol).
But yes it's generally the case that the game encourages rolling away rather than towards an attack, but a lot of large bosses surprisingly don't have collision on big weapons and limbs and whatnot especially in the DLC which has much more refining than base game and defo went into the direction of encouraging aggression. Manus' big arm is the best example of this, though obv the game still encourages caution through other means like his big combo attack which has too little time inbetween attacks to let you rely on consecutive dodges like later games, but still you can defo dodge through most of his attacks.
On the matter of whether or not you are meant to dodge towards Bed of Chaos, I honestly don't even know what they wanted you to do with it. Everything else about the fight goes against sitting back and dodging away so dodging towards it is just a very sensible choice especially after you get rid of its anchors and want to make it inside, so the collision thing is just a terrible choice when combined with those things. If it weren't for the crumbling floors and messy execution it prolly wouldn't be a huge deal.
@@hi-i-am-atan Yeah i noticed that pretty quickly since i had already beaten ds3 sekiro bloodborne and elden ring multiples times before actually beating ds1 for the first time, i thought it was pretty annoying specially because of how awkward it is that i get hit just by touching the boss's weapon even when it's not even moving anymore (thankfully shields make ds1 kind of a joke)
That's really the only issue with the fight. It'd be a fun challenge if you could dodge roll the swipes without getting pushed into the holes
The fact that izalith used to be a swamp makes all the overgrowth of tree roots and the boss being a giant tree seem more fitting, aesthetically.
Really? Makes sense considering that most Pyromancers later in the timeline seem to live around swamps.
Where is this info mentioned?
@@peachyjam9440There's a pretty good video compiling the evidence we have for it by King Bore called Lost Izalith Swamp - DS1 Cut Content
i like it because of the way some trees need forest fires for the ecosystem to work, which ties in the the ancient trees and the cyclical kindling of the flame. mixing tree roots and fire is a really neat and unique aesthetic there.
@@peachyjam9440 Unused content. In concept art of Lost Izalith you can see its buildings being on top of a swamp rather than lava, with the fiery bits just sorta being the background, and there's still stuff in the files such as some Blight Town enemies being in Izalith's load list and vegetation that makes little sense to be over lava, but perfect sense if it were swamp. Look up "Lost Izalith Swamp" and there's a video that goes into greater detail, and they even made a great-looking mod that restores swamp Izalith and and even the more mobile Bed of Chaos fight.
2:34 I enjoy that in these videos, Dark Soul's rushed development is forever symbolized by the Lava Lake of Dragon Butts in Lost Izalith.
Or Dark Souls 2 as a whole. I don't think we'll ever get past Izalith or the Frigid Wastes.
It's iconic by now. I think it's especially funny considering the dragon butts are called 成り損ない or "incomplete" (or "imperfect" in DS2). Like, yup, it sure is incomplete, isn't it?
@@bennwardhaugh3013 funny thing is that despite rushed development ds2 turned out an incredible game thar surpasses its prior games in a lot of ways
@@f.p.2010The ol' "state an extremely unpopular opinion as fact" trick
@@orangenostril it's neither extremely unpopular nor is it an opinion. Well, of course it's still an opinion, but it's backed up by the real cases presented
The biggest issue is the "oops random parts of the floor are falling away" part, had you had a clear idea where you could and could not go from the start it would have been much less frustrating
Even if the indication was just little cracks with animated fire or something... anything would have been nice.
I mean it's not random once you know 😅
I spent an hour or so learning the speedrun strat solely so I could minimize the time spent on this boss on repeat playthroughs
I spent 15 minutes modding BoC out of the game
Havels shield both hands solos bed of chaos
It took you an hour? I mean you literally stand in one spot and throw two fire bombs
@@masonyoung1502 nice bait, but I'll humor you. the place you have to aim throw the bombs is very precise (I use a controller which makes it extra annoying), you have a pretty short window between the first and second bomb to aim before you get smacked by fire pillars, and you can only pull the whole thing off the first time you enter the boss arena (so if you mess up you have to reload a backed up save)
@@utes5532 weak
Man, remember back before the remaster came out people were speculating that they were going to finally fix Lost Izaleth and the Bed of Chaos fight
And then the only change to any map was an extra bonfire near Vamos
lets face it, remastered was a cheap cashgrab. everything they did existed as a mod already. fixing izalith would have been awesome
The audacity to put a bonfire near Vamos (fine with me) but do nothing to Bed of Chaos is appalling. Literally just putting a bonfire behind the Chaos Eater on the way to BOC would have been a lazy but very welcome change. FromSoft had a hard deadline but Bamco could do whatever it wanted for the remaster. So infuriating.
Where's the extra bonfire near Vamos? There's a bonfire in the catacombs that most players miss but that has always been there. Had no idea there was a new one unless its the same one.
@@CR-og5ho It's right behind where you drop down, very difficult to miss. Look up "dark souls remastered vamos bonfire"
@@CR-og5ho Yeah there's a bonfire near Vamos that wasn't there in the Prepare to Die Edition, one of the few actual changes for the remaster
It's real when even Zullie calls the stupid tree a 'stupid tree'.
The alternate version honestly kind of reminds me of the Wolnir fight in DS3. It’s also a puzzle boss involving a giant sort of humanoid monster crawling on the ground with its arms while you need to destroy three things in order to kill it.
You don't NEED to, per se... there's even a different death animation if you exhaust his regular healthbar instead of destroying the bracelets, where he dies normally instead of being dragged into the abyss. Though realistically nobody's gonna hit him a million times with a bludgeon when the bracelets breaking deals so much damage. (IMO both Yhorm and Wolnir could've done with less inflated health pools so fighting them without the puzzle solution would've been more viable)
@@GameDevYal You can see Wolnir's alternate death animation if you use pestilent mist while he's asleep; he won't wake up if you don't come close to him.
And Yhorm can be actually a fun fight if you go for the headshots with vertical attacks like katana's charged r2. He can be easily staggered that way a riposted for a lot of damage, I actually prefer fighting him like that instead of using storm ruler :)
@terrorblade8920 Mixed feelings about that, speaking as someone that missed the Storm Ruler the first time around and assumed that the theme of the boss fight was "he only wears pants because it's not like there's anyone tall enough to hit any other part". That was a long fight.
They could’ve at least added a bonfire somewhat near the Bed of Chaos, like it really isn’t fun walking down the path of shame each and every time you die by this boss.🐱
From now on, I'm going to refer the walk back to the bed chaos as the path of shame now.
and i hate having to switch to the orange charred ring everytime because they put lava between the bonfire and where you need to go, so annoying
Insta-kill bosses aren't necessarily bad but they've gotta make the boss run short to compensate. Both Bed of Chaos and Capra Demon's boss runs should have been shorter for this reason.
the little chapel-like area right behind the chtulhu baddy would've been the perfect place for a bonfire. I was genuinely surprised when i realized there wasn't one... i even hit all the walls looking for a secret bonfire
@@evanseifert8858 Capra demon's bs can be largely negated with enough poise at least. I can't remember the last time I died to him simply because not I'll throw on stone armor and wolf ring just for him.
The Bed of Chaos is almost a spiritual successor to the Dragon God in the way that they're both cool-looking giant bosses with a fire theme that have a bad puzzle gimmick instead of an actual fight.
But, the thing with Dragon God is that there's little to no boss run with that fight. You have to do a run back that takes like 3 minutes for BOC
@@chadderbug7587 and I'd argue its more intimidating than it is actually difficult. You can take a punch from the dragon god, but you are likely to just get knocked into a hole with bed of chaos.
Plus he at least doesn’t kill you with gravity. At least on NG, it’s possible to survive a hit from him if you’re properly kitted out and have enough health. Bed of Chaos just ends you in one attack if you’re near a ledge.
Yeah the Dragon God is definitely more bearable, although that doesn't make it good.
Dragon Boss' gimmick wasn't that hard compared to the Bed, but it's certainly a boring gimmick. I say this as a Demon's Souls lover.
When you're trying to drop onto the root, look for a single brick sticking out on the right-hand side of the pit. Stand on that brick and roll off, and you'll land directly on the root -- you don't even need to use the janky Souls jump
Figured it out a long time ago and it's the advice I share whenever anybody is struggling with this boss
Yep, and it's right near the area where you need to stand to bait the hand slam that gives you a free shot at the roll.
Just quit out after each chain, then bait the slap, and roll of the brick. All but guarantees victory in 1-2 attempts (depending on firestorm RNG, but so long as your fire resist is good and you're wearing the orange charred ring you can probably live a single firestorm to punch the bed).
Once you know how to fight it, I'd argue BoC's one of the easiest bosses. And far less bs than the Four Kings (would you rather run past ghosts or dark wraiths on your way to a DPS check?)
Every time I think about Izalith as a whole, it leaves me so quietly sad for what Dark Souls 1 could have been if they had just given the developers enough time
Me too, man. Me too. I love the concept of lost izalith. That the Witch tried to make her own flame and it went...horribly wrong. It could have been such an epic area with enough time to finish it. Instead we got dragon butts and the Bed.
@@childofcascadia Agreed, whats more sad/upsetting to me is not the Bed of Chaos its self, but the rest of the level leading up to it.
So much of it is just a lava pit with very generically placed "hard" enemies to discourage you from exploring the unfinished level.
@@Pwnopolis hates lost izalith because it's too hard lmao. Maybe souls games are not for you.
blud is being purposely obtuse@@prawngravy18
@@prawngravy18 Maybe reading comprehension isn't for you.
I think simply making it so that falling down the holes wasn't an instant death would have made it a lot less rage inducing.
Something like lava erupting from the ground in place of the holes, so you take damage when standing on it but don't instantly die.
@@Yay295 Or there's a room down below you climb back up from. That would be annoying but manageable.
@@ladyabaxaAKA the second worm boss of ALttP.
@@ladyabaxa Or just dont be a scrub and fall down the hole.
@@prawngravy18do you have anything better to do than troll dark souls players? Get a job, knit a sweater, or at least get a little more creative with your insults than "git gud scrub lol".
Imagine if you released both anchors (no floor breakage), the Guardian pounded the ground with both its fists and the entire floor broke a-la the Curse-Rotted Greatwood. You fall and land on the surface of the fiery Chaos below, the Orange Charred Ring being the only thing protecting you from obliteration. as you fought the Guardian that could move.
Would be kind of a combination of Four Kings and Centipede Demon in that case, huh.
@@knowlessmanSuddenly I'm glad that BoC is the way it is. The only reasons Centipede isn't my least favourite boss is that it can be easily clipped into the ceiling and that Four Kings exists...
@@theapexsurvivor9538four kings is just a super easy dps check- I always use zweihander so I never had an issue with it
“Izalith was a victim of rushed development”
[shows army of dragon butts]
I will always and forever mourn the fight we could’ve had. Imagine that grotesque plant monster writhing along the floor while the bug throws slow-moving AOE fire spells at you. No pits, no BS hitboxes. Just a damn good time. Maybe even two health bars. What might have been
Maybe something like Demon Prince but slower and more methodical to fit the style of DS1
>no BS hitboxes
Yeah sure lmao
Well, at least we kind of got a bigger variant with the Curse-Rotted Greatwood in DS3 and many of the mini bosses in Elden Ring.
I can imagine something similar to a combination of the Amygdala from Bloodborne and the Fire Giant from Elden Ring. You start off fighting the Bed of chaos while it stands, trying to step on you, swat you and using relatively basic chaos pyromancy while you attack the hands and legs.
Phase two begins with it's legs breaking but it's fire aspect then emerges in all it's flaming glory so now it's slower and more vulnerable but at the same time, the fire aspect/spirit/whatever is trying to claw at you and is tossing more complex and more dangerous pyromancies at you. Also, attacking the fire aspect directly (either with meleeing it's flaming talon when it misses and gets stuck for a moment or shooting it with spells or a crossbow or something) does extra damage.
Lastly, no bogus falling hazards. Maybe something closer to the flamelurker's arena or something.
Fromsoft fans and their unending desire to be pursuited by giant things that randomly smash and splash instead of something actually unique. You have decribed the literal copy of gaping dragon.
You don't actuallay need the 30 humanity to open the shortcut, unless you want to save Solaire. You can just open it from the Izalith side.
Actually you don't even need to do that to save Solaire, you could just hit the sunlight maggot through the door with poison mist or with one of the dragon weapon's arts
10+ years of playing how tf did I never realize this.
Also worth noting that the shortest runback starting from within Lost Izalith requires finding a bonfire which is hidden behind an illusory wall.
Regardless of the negatives, I vividly remember my happiness when entering this boss arena after a half-successful attempt and seeing that progress is actually saved. Such a relief and joy! Needing to defeat both sides and getting through to the middle flawlessly would have been horrible.
Such a shame, too. The visuals of the Bed of Chaos are absolutely peak.
It just reeks of growth in a setting that is steeped in decay, allowing those elements to go hand in hand with the game's traditionally sinister look.
A proper internally developed "remake" where they finally realize everything they had originally planned would be amazing. So more like an alternate version than a remake. Same with DaS2 and 3 actually.
And it's entirely possible because Miyazaki is head of the company.
Bad news is Miyazaki will never take part in it or give it the greenlight cause of his huge ego when it comes to going back on old projects.
@@dylanroemmele906 I was about to say that. Miyazaki is simultaneously the biggest help and the biggest hindrance to every project he's worked on. He makes it as best as he can before release, but REFUSES to touch it ever again AND forbids anyone else from touching it. This is actually the reason the last archstone wasn't added in the Demon's Souls Remake, they thought about doing it, but Miyazaki wouldn't have been pleased. I honestly wonder what golden age of FromSoft Remakes would be ushered in if he retired.
@dylanroemmele906 On one hand I can understand Miyazaki's stance somewhat as a fellow creative, not wanting to be a repeat performer and rather wanting to rather iterate the same concepts in a new project with learned lessons (DeS to DS to BB/ER etc) - no less the fact that Demon's Souls remake is already decisive in the community even without any actual new content because of the changes in art and atmosphere by an outside party, even with Miyazaki's own blessing. But it would be interesting to see how different things would have been if some of these remakes would have taken more liberties in terms of the actual level designs and original concepts.
@@StarvingGecko Imo I think there's a big difference between changing the art direction that was already very good than recreating rushed and unfinished levels to their intended state that people do not enjoy. If the only thing changed was Lost Izalith and Demon Ruins I'd be happy.
Beyond that, Miyazaki doesn't NEED to take part in the project, other than perhaps give pointers, but he won't even greenlight such a project, which is the problem.
@@dylanroemmele906 Honestly I'm not even sure whether Bandai-Namco has more say than Miyazaki does in terms of how much extra effort can be expended into a remaster/rehaul project - Sony effectively owns Demon's Souls so they could do whatever they wanted regardless of Miyazaki's decisions on the matter.
I have spent a long time thinking about what would make this fight better. I think the best help would be to make the fall NOT an instant kill, maybe dropping into a separate arena you need to o climb out of. That would be much more enjoyable, I think.
Yeah exactly. I think I died more because I was firmly pushed in those holes, rather than being hit by any actual attacks.
@@sorcikator993 oh, I have NO doubt about that. If you wanna talk about dying to attacks, go see Artorias...
Minor note: you can open the Izalith shortcut without the questline, if you just run to the other side of it. In other words: it also opens if you go to it from inside Lost Izalith, regardless of participation in the Chaos covenant.
From my experiences this is not true.
Perhaps there's some glitch / exploit you have been using without realizing it?
@@Pwnopolis You can indeed open it from the Izalith side without being in the Covenant.
As a few other folks have brought up, Bed has other problems. One of those is its visual design and how nondescript it is, *especially* for a boss as prominent and with as much build-up as it has.
Like, the Witch turning into a whole-ass tree is a great visual *concept* (and, surprise, Elden Ring would revisit the entire concept) but putting the ash-grey-brown boss in an ash-grey-brown room which the camera can't even see the whole sweep of turns the fight into visual soup. It's so easy to get knocked into the pits in part because it's so damned hard to keep track of everything.
It's a shame because it seems like the fight was so cool in concept - we fight an enthroned lord wielding two scepters and raining chaos and fire down on us! - but a combination of development time, technical limitations and other factors kept the fight from being the spectacle it really should have been.
Oh sick, the alternate/unusued Bed of Chaos also has little bug wings, furthering the weird but consistent links between the Chaos Flame and both Bugs and Trees!
Izalith in general but especially the bed of chaos is the main argument that could be made for not just a ds1 remaster but full on remake. I'd genuinely love to see Miyazaki and the team return to finish the work they couldn't due to the rushed development and see the witch of izalith receive the treatment she deserves as such a key character in the series
agree, izalith got such a bad treatment, and Nito too. I hightly doubt his arena was imagined to be an empty cave with a giant casket.
Regardless I still love the aesthetics of the Tomb of Giants and the Catacombs even if they could've been better.
Sorry, best I can do is a remaster with fucked up lighting.
@@buttlord2223 bro is mad lost izalith didn't blind him
I'd be amazed if they (as in Fromsoft themselves; a third party being allowed to do it is an option I guess but basically everyone who does that kind of thing would be too afraid to add new content to a game as beloved as DS1) did anything like that. Miyazaki has made it pretty clear he doesn't even like making sequels out of preference for making entirely new properties, a remake would be a step beyond that.
@@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 Miyazaki actually wanted to do DS2 but they pulled him off it.
I still dream of someone going back and remaking DS from the ground up, fixing the later areas of the game namely, and creating the flawless masterpiece of level design it was meant to be.
yeah DS1 has a severe drop in quality after OnS.
@@triploshadow archives and new Londo are two of the best areas. Even tomb of giants is conceptually amazing, just executed a bit questionably. People are wayyy too hard on the second half of ds1. Lower undead burg is worse than lost izalith.
I’ve heard it mentioned that the Curse-Rotted Greatwood feels like a Bed of Chaos re-do. I doubt it’ll ever be actually confirmed, but there are definitely some similar vibes. Giant tree, extra mobs, falling through the floor, bullshit hands, etc. etc.
nah that's a reach
Greatwood is a masterpiece compared to bed of chaos. That’s a direct insult to the Greatwood
and the greatwood's great wooden balls@@rigorm136
but consider this: can you punch bed of chaos in the nuts? it’s settled then, curse-rotted greatwood best souls boss
@@rigorm136 Not saying they’re equally bad. Not even saying Greatwood is bad at all. Develop some basic reading comprehension skills please. I’m saying Greatwood might exist because someone at Fromsoft went “Hey, Bed of Chaos sucked, wanna try again on the giant tree with hands idea? So we can do it better?”
I thought they said King Izalith was something they planned for but never included in the game. So it was at our side all along
Turns out he was the most hated part of a two on one boss fight.
You missed that the nearest bonfire is actually hidden and very missable
The Bed of Chaos was like that Dragon fight in _Demon's Souls_ with the ballistas, minus the spectacle/awareness of what the enemy is doing.
i just wanna say i love your videos. i love that you look into obscure things that probably would have gone ignored otherwise and even give you own thoughts on them. i always look forward to your uploads
It's good to remember that, afaik, the fight saving your progress was added in a patch.
That time before the patch must have been nightmarish.
Was it? I've been playing since before the artorias dlc, and I don't ever remember the barriers respawning after death. Citation needed?
@@jonathankkennedy Dark Souls had a day 1 patch as I understand it, so there's some stuff like this where unless you were playing on console, on disk, and staying offline so that you didn't get the patch, you will never have played this version of the game.
This is incorrect. The game saves your progress in the fight even in 1.0. The Bed of Chaos isn't really any harder in 1.0, but the Four Kings on the other hand...
I don't know anything about a day 1 patch, but I play the original unpatched ps3 game (original Japanese version even).
@@evanseifert8858 What are 1.0 Four Kings like? I remember playing my first run on DS1 in 1.0, because I didn't have an online Xbox to update the game. I also remember Four Kings giving me the most trouble besides O&S, I'm wondering if it's due to a change I can't quite remember
Thumbnail text KILLED me.
It’s true, though. I do hate this stupid tree
I've always loved your videos. It's so fascinating to see the "inside" of these games and you're good at explaining the more technical aspects in ways that are easy for anyone to understand.
You know that revised version of the boss reminds be a lot of how High Lord Wolnir moves. Maybe they reused that for Wolnir?
I had a similar thought, but the crawling chaos is able to turn, so its fight was probably more of an open arena than Wolnir's tunnel.
Hol up. The tree is named King Izalis? Could it be that the tree is what remains of the father of Izalith’s children? As in, the chaos flame swallowed them both, turning her into the bug and him into the tree monster protecting her.
Honestly the most infuriating part of this fight for me was that when I _finally_ managed to break that right hand section, I was killed, so I scuttled back to the boss fight not knowing it would save my progress.
So I spent another three attempts getting back to the right, _only to find it was still broken._
The giant shortcut door around the sunlit maggots can always be opened from the Izalith side, you only need to do the covenant to open it from the Demon Ruins side
I never hated this boss. It was the run to the boss I didn't like. I chalked it up to malicious bonfire placement.
Moonlight butterfly is more of a pain in the ass than the Bed lol. I have no clue why people hate this boss.
It has my favourite visual design, but the fight itself is... eh.
@@Pwnopolisand let's not forget Four Kings. I get why we couldn't have a bonfire IN the ruins, but a quicker shortcut from Valley of Drakes and a bonfire at the RTSR would help a LOT. A quick drop from the Broken Lever bonfire, sprint past a couple of Drakes, dodge a Darkwraith or two, climb a ladder and scramble through the boss fog before jumping into the Abyss (and then die because you forgot to switch back to CoA after using Havel's for the sprint...)
@@Pwnopolis
Moonlight butterfly? You mean the green thing that throws a couple spells and then loses half of its healthbar?
I’ve been following these games for years and never once have I heard about the scraped variant of King Izalis! It looks like such a cool boss fight! Thank you Zullie once again for showing something really cool and interesting! 😊
Here's hoping that if they ever make a real remaster of this game, they don't suffer rushed development and let Myazaki cook.
You are thinking of the words Remake or Rebuild.
Remasters just update visuals and audio ect.
Remakes rebuild things from the ground up.
Elden Ring DLC: Bed of Madness
Builds up madness when u step into the arena and instantly pushes u off the map
I love that Zullie's videos now warrant so many views even within an hour. Thanks for all the entertainment Zullie!
Visually, the Bed of Chaos reminds me very much of Amygdala. I suppose Amygdala could be thought of as a more fully realized, ambulatory version. (If I recall correctly, Amygdala's "vomit" even deals fire damage.)
Literally the only issue is cheap instant deaths. Every other issue can get a pass, but the falling instant death is no good.
One other issue I'd like to point out with the bed of chaos is how easy it is to get screwed on your bloodstain. If you die when attempting to run back from hitting the first root, your bloodstain will end up on the wrong side of the broken floor, with no guarantee that you actually have any idea of how to safely access it when you respawn(a problem exacerbated by the fact the floor only crumbles in sections when you get close, not all at once)
This is compared to all the boss arenas where you usually just need to dodge 1 or 2 attacks before being allowed to run straight your bloodstain unimpeded
I'm under the impression that the moving bed of chaos was the original design but they didn't have time to flesh out the battle, and thus switched to the static boss that shipped with the game
Yeah, looking at the code really heavily suggests that that was the case. All the stuff related to it moving seems like an earlier concept that never got fleshed out due to impending deadlines.
If we ever get a Dark Souls 1 remake sone day, which I hope we do, I really hope they address all these issues and improve it. It truly is one of the most important games of the past 20 years.
watching the tree crawl is so disturbing! it's like working maintenance at park attraction and one of the animatronics starts to move
Minor note WRT the longer route/shortcut: I'm pretty sure you can always open it from the inside (or if it's really quest related, it's at least rather hard to miss and I never did nor did I ever see someone missing it). The covenant thing to open it from the outer side only serves saving someone.
It's funny that this video releases today after I literally just finished beating the Bed of Chaos on my most recent DS1 playthrough. It was as awful as I remember in all forms.
With how popular Dark Souls 1 is and how it essentially birthed a new genre or sub genre and paved the way for FromSofts massive success i'm honestly surprised that DS1 despite having DLC, re-releases on newer consoles and a Remaster still hasn't had a version where in Lost Izalith was "fixed" or finished into whatever it was originally intended to be or perhaps was re-imagined by the now (i pressume) bigger and more experienced FromSoft. I hope they do it one day.
Pro tip for anyone fighting this boss for the first time:
After breaking one of the barriers that causes the floor to crumble, save and exit your game (you’ll have enough time to do this if you are quick enough after the cutscene plays; don’t panic). The game will reopen with you at the fog gate, which means you’ll be closer to the other barrier after you descend into the arena again. Just time your dash in rhythm to the Bed’s swings, and you’ll guarantee a safe run to the other barrier. Save and quit out again, go down the slide to the arena, then run up to the bed just enough for the floor to crumble in front of you (also be wary of fire pillars). Be careful with you jump as the arm swings will likely hit you off the branch leading to the Bed’s core (one of the arms will push you off the branch without damaging you if you rush too fast; while you’re on the branch, let both arms return to their neutral position before you run into the cove where the Bed’s core is).
Bed of Chaos isn’t a good fight, but it’s also manageable doing it this way. It’ll take a little extra time doing it this safer way, but hey being safe beats having to do that awful run back every time
At least he didn't spend the entire flight making you chase him across the damn arena, like half the bosses in Elden Ring.
Zullie single-handedly conjuring a Bed of Chaos style boss into the Elden Ring DLC with that last line
Yeah! I always thought it was a waste of a great visual design, that really cool tree-creature. Now I know it's name is KingIzalis, that makes me wonder about lore implications that may have been intended - the Witch of Izalith's consort or enemy??
If there had been a floor instead of a kill-plane in the hole, and just more static branches to let the player walk back up, that would have HELPED, I think.
It's name is not KingIzalis. That's an AI code name. The code names rarely ever match up with what the creature is supposed to be according to lore in the final game. As far as I am aware, the Bed actually is the Witch herself. The code name having "King" in it, could be for the same reason Demi-Human Queens in Elden Ring, are called DemiHumanKing in code. Perhaps in earlier design phases of the game, they had a different idea of what the Bed of Chaos was supposed to be, but changed it later, and typically when developers make changes to their games, the code names they started with remain unchanged, as that would require editing every file that references said name.
@@xxfalconarasxx5659 Given how unfinished Lost Izalith is, I'll personally take any code-name based hint of previous planning ideas to flesh out the lore to make playing thru that section more bearable.
'fuck we dont have time what should we put here'
'idk. lava ocean with 50 dinosaurs leading up to a deathloop'
'sounds good.'
The floor collapsing everywhere is what makes this fight a huge pain.
I feel lucky for getting into Dark Souls a bit later than my friends. They warned me about this boss and gave me tips and stuff. If I went in blind I probably woulda lost my mind
DSR was their chance to fix so many things but the fact that they couldn't be arsed to add a bonfire in Izalith is insane. Like, really...?
Remaster not Remake.
You are failing to understand English.
@@Pwnopolis?????
@@Pwnopolis Even then, it was hardly even a remaster.
I love this channel
The bed of chaos would have been easily solved by either letting players attack the hands to temporarily disable them, or by just not having the floor fall out.
I know it is unrelated to the video, but I wished they kept the poison swamp theme for Izalith altogether, cause the bed of Chaos fire looks like methane gas on fire, and her look a as this gigantic tree in this underground swamp temple surrounded by giant insects and half-animal monsters would have been incredible and more original than "hell temple".
I disagree, Izalith isn't really a traditional design for a hell temple and so I liked that direction actually. The interesting aspect is that signifiers of chaos are usually these white branches, yet it's also a fire area. So it's an underground temple with inspirations from Angkor Wat, completely overgrown and surrounded by lava, yet none of the wood ever burns. I think, the vegetation coming from the chaos wouldn't have really stood out in the setting of a poison swamp, that's full of life anyway.
The tree monster is called King Izalis? There seems to be some otherwise unmentioned lore there.
That was very well thought out as usual.
It never clicked for me that the bug that went into the Lost Sinners eye was the same bug that we killed in the Bed of Chaos, that makes a lot of sense now!
My favorite thing to do when retrying this fight is to spawn at the spidey sister instead of the lava lake. Then I run back over the bridge and fight the demon that respawned (it doesn't if you run from the lava lake) on the route to the boss. That way, even if I die I still get the demon titanite x2, so my efforts weren't completely pointless 🤗.
The run might be a few seconds longer, but it makes it feel a lot less horrible!
I remember when Dark Souls Remastered came out and had that one extra bonfire at Vamos I got excited that they maybe tried to fix Bed of Chaos by giving us a shorter runback but...
...of course they didn't. Okay let's be real Izalith as a whole is such a mess hardly anything could save it so I do find it understandable that they didn't even bother or they just sat in their seats eating popcorn and laughing at us while go through the same pain and hardship all over again.
I beat it quite quickly in DSR but I was still annoyed doing the runback only 2 or 3 times. 😂
I honestly didn't realize that they added anything new/extra to the game with the Remaster.
The more you know lol
@@PwnopolisI mean, the Vamos fire was mostly just a consistency thing (because every other blacksmith has a "safe" bonfire nearby) and also to add a warpable bonfire to Catacombs.
But given that Remastered wasn't made in-house (it's actually a port by QLOC, a Polish developer, with BN's approval), it's not surprising that they touched basically nothing. From really only got involved with some minor stuff like bug fixes (the whole server shutdown across all titles while fixing the ACE glitch for example).
Sounds like a mixtape of frustration and tension in this boss battle
Youre great Zullie love the videos
I sometimes wonder if Wolnir was a revised take on this sort of boss fight design. While not strictly a "puzzle boss," it functions pretty similar in practice due to the bracelet mechanics. Instead of having the floor drop out, though, you get summoned skeletons and if you're not fast enough the boss's cloud attack will push you against the wall, all but ensuring your death.
We love you Zullie
On my first playthrough, I recall swapping to a worse shield at one point because I'd take damage through the shield from both hand swipes and die, but if I had a worse shield I'd get knocked down by the first swipe, avoiding the second entirely, which let me more easily get into the tunnel.
Sometimes you could slide into the arena and almost immediately get hit by a flame pillar.
That zoomed out shot of the Ivory King arena looks sick.
A bit weird that it's called "KingIzalis" in code, given that the Bed of Chaos is supposed to be the corrupted form of the Witch of Izalith. You'd think it would be called QueenIzalis or something like that. I guess it's like how Demi-Human Queens in Elden Ring are called DemiHumanKing in code.
Yes, that surprised me too. So instead of thinking of the entire tree as the witch we only have to think of her as the bug, and the monster tree is her ‘king’ guardian. It’s actually even more sad that she’s been reduced to this tiny bug instead of a giant, dried-up, but still massively powerful plant.
@@WaywardPython Since killing the bug kills the tree, it can be assumed that the tree and bug are one and the same.
@@xxfalconarasxx5659 I think that’s how I’ll treat it while I’m in the room with her!
Miyazaki frankly deserves forty lashes for not doing a damn thing to fix the Demon Ruins AT ALL in the remaster
Remaster wasn't by FromSoft. It was ported from Prepare to Die by QLOC (well, except on Switch, that was Virtuos). Miyazaki was barely (if at all) involved.
@@theapexsurvivor9538 They were still the ones to give it the green light, so that excuse doesn't work.
@@theapexsurvivor9538 it's their IP and they chose to outsource it instead of doing it themselves. They're still responsible, if indirectly. They could've taken the time to change it, but it is what it is.
@@kurokagethescrub9627 I mean, kinda? Dark Souls is owned by Bamco and they could pretty much have told From that they could say they support it or they could kick rocks. It's kinda like how From has No intentions of working with Sony ever again (even in spite of Sony owning a ~14% stake in them), but will Officially greenlight remakes and remasters of Demon Souls and Bloodborne, cause otherwise Sony can just ensure that enough is changed that From don't get a cent. Contracts are a bitch, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if From slowly begins testing the waters of in-house publishing to retain more of their IPs, given that they recently bought the IP for Elden Ring from Bamco.
@@arekusu. Nope, Dark Souls is a Bandai Namco IP. As was Elden Ring until April last year when FromSoft bought it back. Saying that From has the final say is like saying Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr have the final say in how Beatles music is sold, because it's their music (though it's way more of a mess in that case).
Hell, Miyazaki even mentioned that it wasn't their IP when asked if DS3 was the last game or if there was a sequel planned, saying that FromSoft wasn't really interested at the moment, but Bamco could just get in a different developer and to ask them instead.
This is probably my favourite YT channel
I just had a thought while watching your video (which is amazing as always, keep up the very good work !)
The "mouth" of the tree-like guardian looks a bit like the "mouth" of the giant worm creature in Elden Ring, I think there's a similarity in their looks. I thought that when I saw it at a certain angle, at 0:41. I don't know if I'm stretching it, but maybe there is something.
That one guy who actually likes the bed of chaos:
Didn't Miyazaki say that this fight was his biggest DS regret?
Completely different topic but zullie your theories are amazing, your guess on the rune bears turning to dragons is spot on its in the dlc trailer🙏
Honestly, you make a good point about the time it takes to run to the boss. If they had just put a Bonfire right outside the fog I wonder if we would hate it quite so much.
What really grinds my gears is that its not EVEN A BED.
Oho, this is actually an issue that I know the explanation for! It's a translation problem--the original Japanese text reads more like "Seedbed of Chaos", seedbed being a term used to describe cultivation of seedlings in a controlled environment to ensure their success. It's being used metaphorically here to imply that the Bed of Chaos, this thing right here, is the birthplace of all the chaos in the world around it; this is the epicenter of chaos itself. This language is used frequently throughout FROMSoft games--it's the same term as the one used for the Garden of Eyes in Bloodborne, for instance.
THE INCARNATION OF PURE EVIL
Today I learned that the straight shortcut path is actually more time consuming
Thank you for making these videos, I’ve been binge watching them all night! Can you tell me what the teeny, tiny Bed of Chaos bug looking thing is at 2:53? I don’t know why, but my brain is stuck on it and needs to know 😅
Izalith should've been finished in DS Remastered.
My ideal Izalith would have the bed, more specifically that king figure, being a level puzzle instead of the boss. You approach the palace and see him on his throne from afar, with the anchors connected to different pathways, and breaking each anchor caves away the palace leading to new paths in the undercroft. Then after destroying the anchors the fire spirit breaks loose and becomes the boss. A lot of the same attacks can remain as well, just attached to a butterfly-like body chasing you across a field. Hey, it could even be an inverse Gwyndolin where you make a run for the bug if they can't help themselves.
Another quality video as always zullie
I like to view the curse rotted great tree in ds3 as the fully developed version of the fight.
The tree moves around the arena slowly like the "kingIsalis" unused model, the tree also has several weak points attached to it that once you destroy enough causes the floor to fall.
Then once the floor has fallen out, a large entity which is still attached is released from the tree (similar to the chaos being) but in the tree fight it more resembles the first phase of izalith with the giant hands
I literally had a dream about the bed of chaos last night...I tried doing the quite out after the first ball was destroyed and when I went back it was an additional dungeon I had to get through to get back to the boss.