it's such a irony the Dominion is ruled by shapeshifters and the Federation is ruled by solids. the Dominion demands structure and stability' while the Federation is constantly changing and adapting.
I love your videos because they challenge the excepted Trek norms. Don't always agree with them myself, but the self righteous reactions are priceless.
The Dominion did warn the Federation and others to stay on their own side of the wormhole numerous times, but no. They kept trespassing, even setting up colonies in the Gamma Quadrant, with no regard to the locals (violating their own Prime Directive, arguably). From the Founders pov, they sent their forces (as you stated, not even including their own member worlds' citizens) on a self-defense objective. The Federation shot first, then when the Dominion responded, *shocked Pikachu face*.
That is a really good point about the Dominion member worlds never had to commit their people to the war effort. They probably only had to increase their Resource and technology output for the initial built up.
And let's not forget that then God magic happened and cut the Dominion off from the Alpha quadrant cutting all of that build up off from fighting. And the Dominion basically almost won with an initial expeditionary force, that would be like the Germans winning WW2 with JUST Erwin Rommel's Africa corps.
I have a theory that the Dominion were able to defeat the Borg. The Borg grow their numbers through assimilation of both peoples and technology. Unlike other governments like the Federation for example. The Dominion has an army completely made up of Jem Hedar, which are grown in batches. The Dominion also has no problem with building a large military fleet of war ships and fighters. Let's image the Borg invading Dominion space. In battle the Jem Hedar would gladly lower their shields so they can be assimilated, in reality, they detonate their ship to help disable the shields. More Jem Hedar fighters approach the cube and beam hundreds of soldiers on a single cube destroying the vessel from the inside out. Most if not all the Jemar Hedar would die, but they would be glad to do so, and more Jem Hedar are being bread every day. If the Borg stop trying to assimilate Jem Hedar, The Dominion will keep firing on the cubes doing as much damage as possible. Even flying their ships into the cubes if necessary. The Borg would take heavy losses in battle. If they Borg did manage to reach a Dominion world to assimilate the population, The Dominion would rather kill their citizens, rather than give the borg the opportunity to create more drones. With the Borg taking heavy losses, they would gather no new drones, and if they did manage to assimilate anyone, they would gain little to no knowledge of value. This would probably convince the Borg, to leave The Dominion alone...for now. Protection from the Borg is a compelling reason to leave the Federation and join The Dominion.
I disagree. Everything you said of the Dominion is also true of the Borg. They too can also breed and create new drones and do not hesitate to sacrifice themselves. However, the Borg is not only better at adapting, but they assimilate information into a single hive mind. One assimilated Jem'hadar, vorta, of founder, and every Borg drone would know everything. Also, assimilating a founder would stop Jem'Hadar and Vorta from harming them.
@hamobu The Borg don't breed drones. Drones are assimilated from pre-existing humanoid lifeforms. They do have maturation chambers, but those are for infants that have been assimilated. They aren't clones like the Jem Heder or Vorta. Borg drones are sometimes sacrificed, but that sacrifice is based on the assumption that they'll be able to assimilate thousands or millions of new drones. Which the Dominion will prevent by either having Jem Heder fight to the death or destroying their own worlds. The Borg wouldn't have the opportunity to assimilate any knowledge from a Vorta, Jem Heder, or a founder. Jem Heder and Vorta would commit suicide before getting captured, and it's unknown if Borg can assimilate a founder.
And unlike the Federation which has banned genetic modification, the Dominion has a bunch of experience with it. They could do like Icheb's people and create people who would disable the Borg once assimilated.
@@jameskelly3502 apparently drones not reproducing is a dumb Voyager thing. God I hate that show. However maybe they don't because they have enough drones through assimilation, however they could if they needed to because there's nothing stopping them and they have the technology. They are cybernetic organisms that think logically and are not limited by culture or tradition. Also, assimilation is not a choice. If one Borg comes up from behind you and sticks you with nanoprobes you are done. Many Jem'hadar and Vorta would kill themselves before capture but you only need one. A single Borg cube almost destroyed federation and Klingons twice and was only stopped by federation knowledge and ingenuity. Borg might have millions of cubes and each with millions of drones. On the other hand, USS Defiant slices through Jem'hadar ships like a hot knife through butter. There's no way that the Dominion would defeat the Borg. Maybe if Borg sent one cube, but not the entire Borg collective.
Lower Decks pointed out that the dominion replicator tech is more advanced so I think it’s ok to assume that civilian infrastructure in the dominion is just as advanced as the military
Lore buddy, I just wanted to let you know that I still go through your 7-hour Dominion war series at least twice a year. Love it! That was great. You put a lot of time and effort into that and it shows. I know you put it out 3 years ago but props to you in the current
Now is I'm replying to you on UA-cam. I am watching Star Trek DS9 a time to stand. I just finished a call to arms. Excellent episode. One of the best of all Star Trek but anyway I digress to your comment. Here is what I'm saying... The federation is so terrible but what version of the federation are we talking about LORE, i don't think told us that. It's got to be one of two. Either the federation and the Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek. Strange new world's universe or the TNG DS9 Voyager universe because now it's official cannon strangely worlds and discovery are in an alternate reality
The Dominion did want to 'modify' Betazoids to become a new servant race, as their telepathy would be a valuable asset in keeping control - and as a added bonus it didn't work on the Founders. They also considered turning Klingons into another warrior race in the Dominion War machine, which would have required a lot of work to make them more subservient, and prehaps a safety control measure, similar to The White. So being left in peace doesn't count if you have valuable abilities that the Dominion want to exploit by moulding you into a new client species. So if the Dominion come knocking, it's best to be a middle of the road species, and not too useful. After all, the ancestors of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar would not be happy to see how they had been 'evolved'. The Dominion did want to 'modify' Betazoids to become a new servant race, as their telepathy would be a valuable asset in keeping control - and as a added bonus it didn't work on the Founders. They also considered turning Klingons into another warrior race in the Dominion War machine, which would have required a lot of work to make them more subservient, and prehaps a safety control measure, similar to The White. So being left in peace doesn't count if you have valuable abilities that the Dominion want to exploit by moulding you into new client species. So if the Dominion come knocking, it's best to be a middle of the road species, and not too useful. After all, the ancestors of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar would not be happy to see how they had been 'evolved'.
The Dominion is just the Federation with teeth. They want a peaceful galaxy, but one with the Founders on top. It's even mentioned that the Founders were constantly hounded by solids until they got their act together. They even created two servile races, Vorta and Jem'Hadar. The Vorta would speak the words of the Founders and the Jem'Hadar were their fist
The Dominion is nothing like the Federation. The UFP is founded on mutual cooperation and understanding, while the Dominion is founded on supremacy and control. Thematically they are the inverse of eachother.
Much of Startrek's "Big" plotlines are about the Federation coming up against a twisted mirror image. The Dominion ("Tyranical Federation") and Borg ("Unconsentual Federation") are just two key examples.
Many have argued that the best possible government is a benevolent dictatorship. That may be very close to what the Dominion has. This was a fascinating subject and an excellent analysis.
@@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286do the people running Singapore care about the average person or their own power? At some point, it stops mattering for the average person if they have a good life.
Only realizing now that it's been that long since I subscribed to your channel. I might not comment much, but I'm glad to see you still making excellent videos to this day :)
It's worth noting that although the Founders clearly are evil and selfish - that's true of most leaders in the real world. It doesn't necessarily mean that living in that state is all that bad.
The Interstellar Concordium was also an interesting anti-Federation concept. I feel the Dominion was based on that concept but made a bit more obviously dark.
There is one Dominion world that was almost obliterated by alpha quadrant powers. If we are to believe what we are told, then the Founders' home world itself was bombarded from orbit by a joint Romulan-Cadassian fleet shortly before the outbreak of war, valliantly avenged by a conveniently close by Jem'Hadar fleet (cough). Though I have my doubts about that, rather I believe it was just a random other planet that was similar in appearance and location that the Founders chose to "sacrifice" in order to make propaganda about how victimised they are by chaotic evil solids... They're good at that.
In my head cannon, the Founders planted wrong coordinates in the _Defiant_'s logs as part of their trap for the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar. No way would they let the _Defiant_ return to the Alpha Quadrant with the home address of the Founders. (Although they may have upped and moved to a different planet after the _Defiant_ left and camouflaged their previous home to make it look occupied for the OO and TS.)
Not just the Federation, but a quadrant united under Federation rule. The Vorta and the Jem'Hadar are the equivalents of the Romulans and the Klingons, as they might be if they were in service to an aggressive, dominant Federation.
The reason the Gamma quadrant wasn't effected was because the Dominion spent most of the war on the offensive, and while they may/may not have been forced to attack the Federation in a war it's curious that neither the Vorta or Jem'Hadar would be good at shipbuilding, makes you wonder what would have happened if the races that built the ships didn't reach their quota and why they were so motivated to. Finally Cardassia was moving towards a democratic government between the *destruction of the Obsidian Order and the point the Klingon war started; it went even further back when the Dominion let Dukat take control and resume things as if nothing changed since the order stopped keeping the power balance. Both the war and obviously Cardassia's joining were orchestrated by the Dominion. *Yes the Dominion destroyed the order but the dissident movement was gaining strength and with the Bajorans free, the Marquis being a thorn in their side, and their people learning how to cope under Federation rule they were on the way to changing anyways.
I would argue the more advanced tech argument. While they had weapons that would bypass their shields, the Federation had quickly adapted to that where it had became a non issue. The Dominion had been in awe of the Federation Tech ability. Engineers who can turn rocks into replicators. While the USS Oddacy was destroyed, it was able to take a pounding and it took a kommakosdy attack from the Dominion to actually destroy her. While the Federation was overconfident of the power of the Galaxy Class starship, it actually held out rather good for what it was up against.
An unless they went with Weyoun's original idea to glass an genocide Earth. Had the Feds lost that's how Humans probably woulda been turned into. Tech experts an makers an soldiers since even the Klingons an in some cases JemHadar noted SOME Human forces, or more specifically some SF Leaders an units, also excelled in combat. Think that's part how we finally made a mostly lasting an basically more or less permanent peace with the Klingons an scared the Vulcans a bit when they found us with our extensive knowledge an tech based around warfare an Martial Arts forms. Just think of a Trek alien race setting out to study outta curiosity, etc some Human martial arts. An realize we've basically got hundreds if not thousands of them an as much or more weapons types an combinations
This video got me thinking. I would like to see a video about life in the Dominion as a citizen compared to the Federation. It has been a while sense I seen DS9, and never really looked for looked for how the Dominion treated it's citizens, but I do not remember much bad about it. What does Dominion "order" they want mean? What freedoms do they have to give up?
DS9 doesn't really show what civilian life is like on a regular Dominion member planet, the closest we get are two or so episodes featuring the Karemma (a merchant species from the Gamma Quadrant). They seem to be free to do business with whomever they want as evidenced by their trade agreement with the Ferengi, but their economy is also implied to be more tightly regulated than the Ferengi one. The Karemma seem to be doing well overall, but we also don't really learn much about them other than that.
You get the impression that in a Darwinian galaxy where intelligent species mostly prey on each other, accepting the protection of the Jem'Hadar police force in exchange for military resources and food for the Vorta administrators wasn't actually that bad a deal.
Even though the mirror universe is supposed to be the opposite of Star Trek, I believe the comparison between the Dominion and Star Trek should be based on genetic engineering.
I guess the Level of local self governance, and individual freedoms, would be more important for everyday live, then who is in charge of some distant government.🤔
I have a friend who likened 80s & 90s Trek to understanding the different "cultures" that emerged in America post-1960s. Using the different series as a kind of decoder ring to explain the core motivations of the three main cultures--while stipulating there used to be a few more, but they either got consumed by the main three or they just died out. He also emphasized that the Federation in each show is how each culture group views America and the other aliens could be interpreted as the other culture groups they ally or battle against. The finales of each show being how each culture group's ideal ending of the so-called "Culture Wars" should play out. By cultures think "Red State vs Blue State" mentality--that's what he means by cultures, and those are the two most popular. The third culture being the one which DS9 focuses on. He labeled that third culture the "White" culture to keep with the patriotic color scheme of "Red White & Blue" that the other two were playing off of. In any case, to summarize the decoder ring theory, essentially Star Trek reboots itself in the 1980s with The Next Generation, which is a Blue Culture exploration of America and how they see the world. This becomes more the case after Gene Roddenberry's death. Blue Culture in the 1980s was in an alliance of sorts with Red Culture (consider how Left & Right "came together" under Reagan for reference's sake)--this is the era that Centrists long for, and this is reflected in TNG with how the Klingons are portrayed in that show having transitioned from a Russian allegory that they were in the TOS movies. The finale of TNG shows Blue Culture's ideal ending being a consciousness revolution where we stop rebelling and fighting against an authority, but instead submit to it, for it has actually been trying to teach us something all along through said "consciousness expanding" experiences--they've secretly been lessons all along--sort of deal. Blue Culture's main focus thus being on authority, hierarchy, chain of command, and submission to said authority figures--for only in submission and acceptance of our place in the universe can we truly be free. Because when you think about it, that's what All Good Things is, Picard learning to put his ego aside, expand his consciousness for just a moment like a literal "god" figure is telling him to do, and submit to said "God" figure's exercise. As Q puts it: "We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did. ... For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." If you think this is weird to say of Blue Culture being about "submitting to authority" because you're thinking: "aren't they the Hippies?" just think about how Blue states responded to COVID-19 for a second--following and obeying the authority of the government--encouraging everyone to do so and disparaging those who didn't, and doing what Blue Culture does: contemplating & considering the effects of their actions on other people besides themselves. Blue Culture does want more inclusiveness, but it's in creating more diverse figures of authority aka the "Girl Boss" so to speak. Blue Culture, after absorbing all competing other cultures covers about 40% or thereabouts of the US population. And TNG's interactions with the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassions, the Bajorans, and the Ferengi in this context is the Blue culture group's ups and downs in the alliance with the various portions of Red Culture America and how they view each of those different Red Culture factions. Notice I didn't say the Borg--put a pin in them we'll come back to them when I circle back to DS9.
Then you have Voyager, if you're wondering why I'm skipping to Voyager right now, it's because I figured people know Blue Culture America and Red Culture America, I better talk about Red Culture America next before getting to the third "White" culture they're not as familiar with. Voyager after getting stranded in the Delta Quadrant and Starfleet finishes integrating the Maquis into the crew to the point that they're no longer a plot point in any capacity, makes the Voyager crew an allegory for Red Culture America. It first starts out as an expression of Blue Culture America in Voyager's pilot episode, but once the Maquis rebelling against Janeway is no longer any real concern, Voyager and Starfleet post-Dominion War have turned into an exploration of the American Red Culture. And Red Culture views the world like how Voyager in the Delta Quadrant views it: they're alone in a strange world they don't completely understand, trying to find a way back home to something they do understand. They feel like they're all alone surrounded by enemies who they don't understand nor do they want to. Getting back "home" to something familiar is their goal. How they interact with Species 8472 is actually indicative of how Red Culture America views Blue Culture America--something completely alien, especially with its focus on "organic technology"--but something they eventually come to a begrudging ally of. Other Delta Quadrant species are other expressions of Blue Culture America as seen by Red Culture America--especially when they have bio-tech or organic technology, that's when you really know you're looking at a Red Culture perspective of Blue Culture. Not the Borg, once again, because as I said, I'll get back to the Borg when I talk about DS9. Red Culture America is rather simple to understand and not that hard to get the allegory. Loyalty to the "clan" or "cause" are big themes with them--what that clan or cause is, doesn't matter, moreso the loyalty. Tradition and Family are other big themes as well, as expected. Red Culture in America has about 40% of the American population. And so we come to DS9 and the purpose for which I made these two comments in the first place, which as I stated before is White Culture America (so named for the Red White and Blue themed naming concept), and is the smallest of the three main cultures. White Culture America is small enough that both Red and Blue culture don't like to admit that White Culture exists publicly even while both are constantly using or stomping on it in order to prevent it from "spreading". That's why the approximately 20% of Americans who subscribe to its worldview are usually divided into smaller categories and assigned to either Red or Blue camps in real life or slapped on the unhelpful label of "Independents" without that label meaning anything--even when that label also gets slapped onto actual Red and Blue factions who like to pretend that Red and Blue both have good ideas, if only they could just get along. Digression aside, White Culture America constantly views itself as under attack from both Red and Blue--who they view as in an unholy alliance against them. The rest of the world is literally out to undermine and attack them, and as such they have to adapt and overcome every obstacle thrown in their path. White Culture America is about them doing so while focusing on eliminating hierarchy and working collectively to do so. White Culture America will work with disaffected members from whichever faction of whatever culture group in order to come together to overthrow the unholy alliance and then defeat the threat of re-emerging Fascists. That's why the crew of DS9 and the Defiant have adherents of all different portions of Red and Blue factions who all become disaffected by their Red and Blue worldviews slowly overtime through interacting with one another, and all come together to work together collectively to win "the war" and defeat the specter of fascism that threatens to set up shop in the aftermath. The Dominion IS a dark Federation from this White Culture America perspective, but what it ultimately is, is a view of the TNG Federation and 80s-90s Red and Blue Culture alliance from the White culture perspective. Different parts of the Dominion are the different parts of Red and Blue Cultures--the Vorta being the slick media saavy silver tongued way White Culture views Blue Culture America--deferential true-believers to the Founders as authority figures to the point it goes against their own self-interest--and capable of backstabbing you all while smiling. The Jem H'dar thus are the Militaristic faction of Red Culture America of this alliance as viewed by White Culture America. Red Culture are in some respect pitied by White Culture America as they see the Reds as forced to be the exploited grunts and the expendable chess pieces that the Founders throw into the war machine that profits and protects the Founders. Their lives are short violent and harsh with Red Culture being kept under a contemptuous control somewhat by Blue Culture's grip on their healthcare/drugs/propaganda/religion. And the Founders themselves? The ultra-rich Corporate Capitalists or "1%" who use both Red and Blue Culture America to do their bidding, while never giving a fig for the lives they sacrifice so that they can continue to live their self-absorbed and self-indulgent lives unimpeded by lesser beings that they see as utterly beneath them. Starfleet in DS9 is how White Culture America sees itself--as at war with the Dominion, and having to fend off the constant threat of re-emerging Fascism. That's where Gul Dukot, the Pa Wraiths, and Kai Wynn's unholy alliance at the end of the Finale comes in--the remaining factions of the Red Culture America who realize that in a post unholy alliance anti-hierarchy world that there's no place for their desires for power and control, who come together to rebirth Fascism, only to be taken out by a White Culture leader that sacrifices themselves to take out the rebirthed Fascists so that the rest of the collective may live better lives without them. What about the Maquis in DS9? Also Red Culture adherents. And what about the Bajorans? Red Culture adherents--especially of the religious Moral Majority kind. The Cardassians? Nascent Neo-Fascists. The Pa Wraiths? OG Fascists waiting in the wings to re-emerge. The Ferengi? Financial Red Culture adherents. Which is why Rom quoting Marx and forming a union is symbolic of him as a character departing the Finance Red Culture viewpoint. Moogie? She's a Blue Culture Ferengi Girl Boss who works within the system to "liberalize" the Finance Red Culture Ferengi world, and then puts her son Rom in charge. What about that one time Q showed up? Well remember that Sisko punched Q without any qualms--a sign that DS9 wasn't going to be deferential to authority figures, and symbolic of how DS9 was different from TNG. Quark starts out as an adherent of Purple Culture (one of the Cultures in America that didn't last long--and got divided up and absorbed by Red and Blue Cultures in the 1990s after it died in that decade) who turns into a Red Culture Reactionary proto-Make Ferengenar Great Again faction in the end. Odo as the disaffected 1%er who while tempted by the comfortable lifestyle of his "people" ultimately has come to see the rest of the world as worth giving a damn about after "slumming it with the proles" (so to speak). Garrick? A disaffected fascist who has come to see the error of fascism (and thinks they can fix their side) but whom you can never truly be sure of their position on anything. The Prophets? Gods who have little concern over their adherents to the point of being indifferent to their worship of them. The Prophets being how White Culture can best view Q or God. They're the indifferent "watchmakers" who made the watch and then abandoned it to its own devices--and only intervened when annoyed into doing so, or when seeing that the Pa Wraiths (OG Fasicsts) were likely to return. The Starfleet officers could be seen as various factions of White Culture America--O'Brien the long suffering Trade Unionist; Dax the Gender Queer Leftist who gets to live their best life in a fully automated queer space communist society as Jadzia--and as Ezri comes to be respected (specifically referencing how Ezri overcame her self-doubt once assimilating the past lives of the Dax symbiote--to the point she could see things that Jadzia had rose colored glasses about because it was just part of the fun of living their best life, like the Klingon Empire); Sisko the unwitting sacrificial leader who doesn't want to be there nor wants to lead but sees the need for the job to be done so... sigh... I guess I'll do it but only under duress; Worf is an Imperialistic Military-focused Red Culture adherent who learns to appreciate more that the world has to offer beyond his worldview (even begrudgingly conceding to Ezri Dax's point at the end of DS9 that the Klingon Empire might be beyond saving as they've done multiple times now, and is in need of long overdue reforms) and is given the opportunity to try things that Blue Culture TNG wouldn't allow him to do; and lastly Bashir as representative of one of the lucky few who recognize their privilege and then seek to help others who weren't so fortunate as an ally. His story line with the other augments is what I'm referencing here--with Bashir's augmentations being akin to a character from a lower class ascending to a higher one through sheer chance and luck and then not pulling the ladder up behind them, but instead reinforcing and expanding the ladder into a staircase or a ramp so that others can use it more easily--going back and community organizing for the disenfranchised for lack of a better term.
I know some of you who have gotten this far on this little diatribe are likely going: wait a minute, how does the Borg all tie into this, like you said in Blue and Red culture paragraphs? Well, the Borg in TNG and Voyager are how Red and Blue cultures both view White Culture America. This even carries forth into the third season of Picard (most likely unintentionally) where all the "youth" get "assimilated" as a kind of indictment against White Culture's inroads with the younger generations and Red and Blue's failures to do AS well as they used to with younger generations. TNG views the Borg as a completely leaderless anti-hierarchy group where there is no "head of the snake" to lop off--instead it's a many headed hydra. This shifts when the Borg in order to "adapt" to assimilating the Federation adopt a "mouthpiece" who as is shown in subsequent iterations is replaceable. The Borg Queen being more of a thing in Voyager and post-Locutus and First Contact, brings us to how Red Culture America views White Culture America--as hypocrites who can't commit completely to their ideals because they employ a hierarchy to fight hierarchy, but if we take Sisko as representative within DS9 of the idealized version of said leader--the leader's ultimate purpose and position is temporary and is to know when to sacrifice themself for the benefit and survival of the collective. Red Culture America via Voyager as decoder ring views White Culture America as something to temporarily ally itself with in order to "take down Blue Culture America", while Red Culture tends to "fuck with them" consistently. Attempting to "de-assimilate" through the introduction of "individuality", which is a child-like allegory of "deprogramming" and in its worst interpretations in this theory could be taken as an endorsement of "conversion therapy" from a Red Culture's perspective. Notice how in DS9, the Borg while mentioned as part of Sisko's backstory, quickly become a non-entity in DS9 as Sisko goes from a Blue Culture viewpoint to a White Culture viewpoint by working on the station. I'll wrap this up by explaining Purple Culture in a reply to this comment--for those who care enough about the now dead Purple Culture's worldview from their brief mention in the previous comment. Purple Culture isn't found in a Star Trek series in this allegory. All I had heard from my friend who was using Star Trek as a decoder ring for his theory about the warring American Culture Memes was that Purple existed, it died and no longer exists today. Being curious I tried to find an example that would similarly display a similar decoder ring to understanding it. And I found it not in Star Trek, but in--of all things--Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman--which as a show was airing as Purple Culture as a meme was rattling its death knell. Purple Culture is in some ways emblematic of the alliance between Red & Blue cultures under Reagan, Bush Sr & Clinton. They were the architects of that alliance and the glue that held it together you could say. When that alliance died in the 1990s, so did the proponents of Purple Culture. Purple Culture views both Red and Blue Cultures as having "good points" and "bad points" each equally that can be incorporated for the perpetuation of itself. And in such a worldview they would ideally pit both Red and Blue Cultures against one another until both see the other's good points and dispense with their equivalent bad points. This is the formula for Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman in a nutshell. Dr. Quinn being a Blue Culture Girl Boss Bostonian who has come to the frontier to give "frontier medicine" where she hopes she can be better accepted than back home at Boston where her mother demands she gives up practicing medicine to become a wife and mother. She's surrounded by Red Culture adherents of different stripes and often pitted against them throughout the show. Whether that's the Barber turned Mayor, the General Store Owner, the Banker, or the Saloon Owner who each are a different faction of Red Culture trying to carve out their own interpretation of a new "Home" on the Frontier. The only other Blue Culture adherents being Robert Lee the Blacksmith, the Newspaper owner, Grace the ranch hand turn cafe owner, and the Telegraph Operator in town. They however are so beaten down by the overwhelming control of Red Culture adherents at the start of the show, that they take a little bit of time to come into their own and with the assistance of Dr. Quinn eventually reassert the right to live their lives on their terms and not how Red Culture deems they should--thus providing a nice balance of power between Red and Blue figures that Purple likes to see (to keep both in unending frustration with one another). You also have the White Culture Sully; well he's White Culture for the first two seasons when he's more influenced by the Cheyenne who are the actual representatives of "White Culture America" in that show along with the Immigrants who live in wagons on the outskirts of Colorado Springs (and who eventually are killed off when rabies comes to town). Sully becomes more of a Red Culture adherent once season 3 rolls around and especially after the Cheyenne are killed. White Culture America gets the ending in that show that Purple Culture thinks it should receive: die or convert. The show thus takes the paternalistic viewpoint of how each of these various factions deal with living in the late 1860s/early 1870s on the frontier, and how each never truly "defeats" the other, but instead is forced through continual confrontation that never gets anyone anywhere to admit when one or the other, or both have a point, and when both are doing something that just "is too unrealistic to actually implement" to just drop that line of thinking and learn to behave with one another. Purple thus views Red and Blue culture as squabbling children who just need to be "kept in check", and views White culture as "undesirables" to be pitied but ultimately are too dangerous a threat to be tolerated for long. Purple Culture's ideal is that life would continue to go on this way in a state of perpetual frustration for both Red and Blue cultures and the elimination of White culture America. Yes, Purple Culture is pro-Corporate Culture. What Purple culture never counted on was both Red and Blue Cultures turning around and killing Purple Culture for the sake of having an actual "culture war" with one another in the wake of Purple's death.
And similar to that and the Boomers, comes the self righteous attitude that people seem to have when they’ve submitted to an order and think they’re at the top of it. If you put this into Treks context, Kirk’s generation made sacrifices that Picard’s generation gets to smugly lord over the lesser civilizations. Then the generations after him have to deal with the negative externalities of their predecessors decisions.
If the dominion was really 2000+ years old, it may have come from a different time when resources were not so plentiful and scarcity was the norm. Consider modern times for instance, authoritarian and dictatorial countries can exist and actually be quite prosperous as long as they provide a good economy and plenty of subsidies. Most of the populace will simply look the other way as long as times are good. So in a way it becomes survivorship bias, a whole lot more people lived under dominion rule in all their history and many may have believed being part of the dominion was well worth it compared to the relative scarcity that they may have experienced prior.
An in-depth comparison between Star Trek: DS9 & Fallout: New Vegas... The Federation = The NCR The Dominion = Caesar's Legion The Wormhole = Hoover Dam
The defining difference between the Federation and Dominion is Soft Power and Hard power. Co-optation vs coercion. In reality if organizations like a Federation or Dominion actually existed each would use both kinds of power, to varying degrees, because no body politic is a monolithic structure. This gets into political philosophy, I can't really say which is worse. An organization that claims to be benign, hence has reason to hide it when they are coercive. Or an organization that's openly coercive and will use soft power when it's more beneficial to do so.
So I never thought any of this was because of a failed marriage, I forgot about that. I love your takes on things even when I completely disagree with them. When I have a chance I'll go into my own thoughts about the vid later. Keep being controversial, I don't see it as trolling, everything in exsistance deserves to get broken down and anylized, it can help to point out flaws that exsist at times.
Six months after my wife told me she was leaving me.. I was very, very angry and it showed in my videos. I still have to deal with that from people on the left.. I've grown past that though - it's just interesting people still say it.
Lore, I might not be a monetary supporter in some fashion but I've been following you for quite some time.... somewhere In the fuzzy memories I think I may remember you mentioning that. I think it's interesting you say people on the left though lol. I've always viewed you as the guy who purposely tries to look at things from the most alternate viewpoint possible. Keep on trucking, and don't hate on venom btw, you are deffinately creating a diologue, as you always state, those are just my thoughts, what are yours. And just to confuse people I'm gonna just say ensign sudor(sutor?) Deserved a posthumous award...... and whistle on my way.
@LoreReloaded you are forgeting one important thing. Dominion/Founders will live you alone as long as changelings themselfs aren't in danger. As Dominion war was offensive war there was no need to use every resurses. But if their own existance is in danger then it is a completly different story. Look what happened to Cardassians when Female changeling was cornered and about to lose. Now think about if whole Dominion was in danger? They would take everyone and everything with them if they were about to die.
It is an interesting perspective for sure. I would guess a large number of Dominion citizens would share that perspective, considering pro-Dominion propaganda and in many cases a relatively high standard of living. Doesn't make it right, but it would be difficult to see that from the inside. We, as the audience, see the Starfleet/Federation perspective from the inside, so it's possible we're ignoring certain negative aspects of their government policies as we watch these episodes.
The main difference I think is the Dominion is old enough that they can be driven by fear and the need to maintain power. I can't be the only one to see the similarities to them and the ISC from Starfleet Battles. Like the Federation they're all powerful cooperative confederations with an ultimate goal of peace, they just disagree on how to achieve it. If we get more trek that touches on the Dominion, I'd love to see how the average Dominion citizen lives. It's probably not that different from the Federation.
Okay LORE. When you're talking about the federation in your video here, what universe are we talking about? Are we talking about the discovery? Strange new worlds , that federation that universe or are we talking about the prime line TNG DS9 Voyager that federation universe?
He mentioned in another post here he didn't like how "passionate" he got, making him look more adversarial than he wanted so he's pulled it and is working on doing a live stream with VGM to discuss together.
I dont know if there is sny cannon lore or beta lore on it but i would like to see what happened to the dominion in the gamma quadrant after the war ended. Did they keep conquering worlds in the gamma quadrant? Was starfleet allowed to go through the wormhole? They may have lost the war but it wouldnt surprise me if the Dominion maintained a constant fleet right next to their side of the wormhole and told starfleet to keep out.
This brings up a question I've been pondering. In an age where eyes on video is the coin of the day. Is it better to be wrong and controversial or right and one of the crowd?
It depends on your goal. For views and money- wrong and controversial.. to be right and try to change things? Right .. I'd challenge your assertion that being right makes you one of the crowd
Lets face it, the Dominion honestly solves a lot of the issues the Federation has, and if it was for new trek writing, their encounter with the Federation would have set them on a path to far surpass the Federation. Federation lets diverse crews die on antiquated ships even in periods of "advancement", the Dominion uses vat grown crews mass produced ships and tries not to have their other species abord said ships. "Dominion limits free speech", less than the British government does and the Brits find their model to be the model to base the world off of, so obviously no problem with the Dominion there, and for you backwards Americans, the Dominion wants newpapers to either not the tell the story or tell the truth, no one knows the founders because outside the fact that they exist, no one talks about the founders rather than 24/7 propaganda. "The dominion committed genocide" and the Federation hasn't used bioweapons on planetary populations? Hasn't themselves caused mass genocide? Heck people get so split hair on the issue for the federation lets apply the same split hair approach equally, it was some individual Vorta who committed the every genocide on screen so really the Dominion hasn't committed a single one, the founders just made it possible for those evil individual vorta to do so, like good benevolent leaders.
@@danielseelye6005which wouldn’t be seen as democratic by everyone. I’m American and I don’t really see the EU as being as democratic as the US. Technocratic for sure. As much as the US has its problems, most of us wouldn’t want a federal system where most people are appointed by other, fallible (to put it modestly) politicians.
@@danielseelye6005 which is also a conversation to be had about where the Federation derives its legitimacy from. Is it the voters or the governments of the member worlds? It’s probably the latter.
There were certain individuals in the USSR that wanted to create a servile sub-race using genetic engineering to mix humans and chimps. It didn't work but would it be that different from the Jem'Hadar?
In before the inevitable Venom Video Response
it's such a irony the Dominion is ruled by shapeshifters and the Federation is ruled by solids. the Dominion demands structure and stability' while the Federation is constantly changing and adapting.
How DARE you!!
Irony
Are you doing business with Mister Venom GM?
Cool. Remind me which rule of acquisition and you will remain alive after your blasphemy 🧐
ive long loved your videos and your perspective, but im really coming to love the bizarre takes people ascribe to you!
I love your videos because they challenge the excepted Trek norms.
Don't always agree with them myself, but the self righteous reactions are priceless.
hOw DaRe you and your imagination SuBjEcTiVeLy InTeRpRet this fiction!!11!!!! the fact he has arguments and proof, is just to throw is off 😛
The Dominion did warn the Federation and others to stay on their own side of the wormhole numerous times, but no. They kept trespassing, even setting up colonies in the Gamma Quadrant, with no regard to the locals (violating their own Prime Directive, arguably). From the Founders pov, they sent their forces (as you stated, not even including their own member worlds' citizens) on a self-defense objective. The Federation shot first, then when the Dominion responded, *shocked Pikachu face*.
That is a really good point about the Dominion member worlds never had to commit their people to the war effort. They probably only had to increase their Resource and technology output for the initial built up.
And let's not forget that then God magic happened and cut the Dominion off from the Alpha quadrant cutting all of that build up off from fighting. And the Dominion basically almost won with an initial expeditionary force, that would be like the Germans winning WW2 with JUST Erwin Rommel's Africa corps.
I have a theory that the Dominion were able to defeat the Borg.
The Borg grow their numbers through assimilation of both peoples and technology. Unlike other governments like the Federation for example. The Dominion has an army completely made up of Jem Hedar, which are grown in batches. The Dominion also has no problem with building a large military fleet of war ships and fighters.
Let's image the Borg invading Dominion space. In battle the Jem Hedar would gladly lower their shields so they can be assimilated, in reality, they detonate their ship to help disable the shields.
More Jem Hedar fighters approach the cube and beam hundreds of soldiers on a single cube destroying the vessel from the inside out. Most if not all the Jemar Hedar would die, but they would be glad to do so, and more Jem Hedar are being bread every day.
If the Borg stop trying to assimilate Jem Hedar, The Dominion will keep firing on the cubes doing as much damage as possible. Even flying their ships into the cubes if necessary.
The Borg would take heavy losses in battle.
If they Borg did manage to reach a Dominion world to assimilate the population, The Dominion would rather kill their citizens, rather than give the borg the opportunity to create more drones.
With the Borg taking heavy losses, they would gather no new drones, and if they did manage to assimilate anyone, they would gain little to no knowledge of value.
This would probably convince the Borg, to leave The Dominion alone...for now.
Protection from the Borg is a compelling reason to leave the Federation and join The Dominion.
the dominion would totally bitch smack the Borg back to the days of Q WHO
I disagree. Everything you said of the Dominion is also true of the Borg. They too can also breed and create new drones and do not hesitate to sacrifice themselves. However, the Borg is not only better at adapting, but they assimilate information into a single hive mind. One assimilated Jem'hadar, vorta, of founder, and every Borg drone would know everything. Also, assimilating a founder would stop Jem'Hadar and Vorta from harming them.
@hamobu The Borg don't breed drones.
Drones are assimilated from pre-existing humanoid lifeforms.
They do have maturation chambers, but those are for infants that have been assimilated. They aren't clones like the Jem Heder or Vorta.
Borg drones are sometimes sacrificed, but that sacrifice is based on the assumption that they'll be able to assimilate thousands or millions of new drones.
Which the Dominion will prevent by either having Jem Heder fight to the death or destroying their own worlds.
The Borg wouldn't have the opportunity to assimilate any knowledge from a Vorta, Jem Heder, or a founder.
Jem Heder and Vorta would commit suicide before getting captured, and it's unknown if Borg can assimilate a founder.
And unlike the Federation which has banned genetic modification, the Dominion has a bunch of experience with it. They could do like Icheb's people and create people who would disable the Borg once assimilated.
@@jameskelly3502 apparently drones not reproducing is a dumb Voyager thing. God I hate that show. However maybe they don't because they have enough drones through assimilation, however they could if they needed to because there's nothing stopping them and they have the technology. They are cybernetic organisms that think logically and are not limited by culture or tradition.
Also, assimilation is not a choice. If one Borg comes up from behind you and sticks you with nanoprobes you are done. Many Jem'hadar and Vorta would kill themselves before capture but you only need one.
A single Borg cube almost destroyed federation and Klingons twice and was only stopped by federation knowledge and ingenuity. Borg might have millions of cubes and each with millions of drones.
On the other hand, USS Defiant slices through Jem'hadar ships like a hot knife through butter.
There's no way that the Dominion would defeat the Borg. Maybe if Borg sent one cube, but not the entire Borg collective.
Lower Decks pointed out that the dominion replicator tech is more advanced so I think it’s ok to assume that civilian infrastructure in the dominion is just as advanced as the military
Lore buddy, I just wanted to let you know that I still go through your 7-hour Dominion war series at least twice a year. Love it! That was great. You put a lot of time and effort into that and it shows. I know you put it out 3 years ago but props to you in the current
i think we are are Lore Buddies 🙃
@@beepboop204 I used to listen to his stuff all the time and then apparently the algorithm kicked me off so I had to rejoin
@@CaptShriver the algorithm is as ruthless as the Federation 🤣
Now is I'm replying to you on UA-cam. I am watching Star Trek DS9 a time to stand. I just finished a call to arms. Excellent episode. One of the best of all Star Trek but anyway I digress to your comment. Here is what I'm saying... The federation is so terrible but what version of the federation are we talking about LORE, i don't think told us that. It's got to be one of two. Either the federation and the Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek. Strange new world's universe or the TNG DS9 Voyager universe because now it's official cannon strangely worlds and discovery are in an alternate reality
The Dominion did want to 'modify' Betazoids to become a new servant race, as their telepathy would be a valuable asset in keeping control - and as a added bonus it didn't work on the Founders.
They also considered turning Klingons into another warrior race in the Dominion War machine, which would have required a lot of work to make them more subservient, and prehaps a safety control measure, similar to The White.
So being left in peace doesn't count if you have valuable abilities that the Dominion want to exploit by moulding you into a new client species.
So if the Dominion come knocking, it's best to be a middle of the road species, and not too useful.
After all, the ancestors of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar would not be happy to see how they had been 'evolved'.
The Dominion did want to 'modify' Betazoids to become a new servant race, as their telepathy would be a valuable asset in keeping control - and as a added bonus it didn't work on the Founders.
They also considered turning Klingons into another warrior race in the Dominion War machine, which would have required a lot of work to make them more subservient, and prehaps a safety control measure, similar to The White.
So being left in peace doesn't count if you have valuable abilities that the Dominion want to exploit by moulding you into new client species.
So if the Dominion come knocking, it's best to be a middle of the road species, and not too useful.
After all, the ancestors of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar would not be happy to see how they had been 'evolved'.
The Dominion is just the Federation with teeth. They want a peaceful galaxy, but one with the Founders on top. It's even mentioned that the Founders were constantly hounded by solids until they got their act together. They even created two servile races, Vorta and Jem'Hadar. The Vorta would speak the words of the Founders and the Jem'Hadar were their fist
Grunts and Administrators, essentially.
The Dominion is nothing like the Federation. The UFP is founded on mutual cooperation and understanding, while the Dominion is founded on supremacy and control. Thematically they are the inverse of eachother.
@@BigB14 I literally explain why the Dominion is the Federation with teeth
I find the Dominion with all its facets so interesting. I am a fan.
The Founders made the trains run on time.
The dominion is my favourite federation adversary, it’s an interesting concept the dominion is the antithesis of the federation
“Just doing my job, building a bridge between The Dominion, and a potential ally.”
I see what you did there… well you know what I mean.
Much of Startrek's "Big" plotlines are about the Federation coming up against a twisted mirror image. The Dominion ("Tyranical Federation") and Borg ("Unconsentual Federation") are just two key examples.
Many have argued that the best possible government is a benevolent dictatorship. That may be very close to what the Dominion has. This was a fascinating subject and an excellent analysis.
The Founders aren't benevolent. They don't care about their subjects' well-being.
@@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286do the people running Singapore care about the average person or their own power? At some point, it stops mattering for the average person if they have a good life.
Except that under the Dominion rule your entire species can be genocided on the whim of a founder.
@@thetrainhopper8992 Halimah Yacob is a changing?
and many of these same people argue the planet is flat...
Only realizing now that it's been that long since I subscribed to your channel. I might not comment much, but I'm glad to see you still making excellent videos to this day :)
Weouyn has approved this transmission.. but cut that last part.
It's worth noting that although the Founders clearly are evil and selfish - that's true of most leaders in the real world. It doesn't necessarily mean that living in that state is all that bad.
The Dominions motto.... That Cotton is not gonna pick itself!!!
I look forward to our new Dominion Overlords 😀
The Interstellar Concordium was also an interesting anti-Federation concept. I feel the Dominion was based on that concept but made a bit more obviously dark.
The Dominion policy = "Kiss the ring and don't step out of line."
I am so glad to see one of your videos I was wondering if you were still making them. You are awesome
There is one Dominion world that was almost obliterated by alpha quadrant powers.
If we are to believe what we are told, then the Founders' home world itself was bombarded from orbit by a joint Romulan-Cadassian fleet shortly before the outbreak of war, valliantly avenged by a conveniently close by Jem'Hadar fleet (cough). Though I have my doubts about that, rather I believe it was just a random other planet that was similar in appearance and location that the Founders chose to "sacrifice" in order to make propaganda about how victimised they are by chaotic evil solids... They're good at that.
In my head cannon, the Founders planted wrong coordinates in the _Defiant_'s logs as part of their trap for the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar. No way would they let the _Defiant_ return to the Alpha Quadrant with the home address of the Founders. (Although they may have upped and moved to a different planet after the _Defiant_ left and camouflaged their previous home to make it look occupied for the OO and TS.)
Not just the Federation, but a quadrant united under Federation rule. The Vorta and the Jem'Hadar are the equivalents of the Romulans and the Klingons, as they might be if they were in service to an aggressive, dominant Federation.
The reason the Gamma quadrant wasn't effected was because the Dominion spent most of the war on the offensive, and while they may/may not have been forced to attack the Federation in a war it's curious that neither the Vorta or Jem'Hadar would be good at shipbuilding, makes you wonder what would have happened if the races that built the ships didn't reach their quota and why they were so motivated to.
Finally Cardassia was moving towards a democratic government between the *destruction of the Obsidian Order and the point the Klingon war started; it went even further back when the Dominion let Dukat take control and resume things as if nothing changed since the order stopped keeping the power balance. Both the war and obviously Cardassia's joining were orchestrated by the Dominion.
*Yes the Dominion destroyed the order but the dissident movement was gaining strength and with the Bajorans free, the Marquis being a thorn in their side, and their people learning how to cope under Federation rule they were on the way to changing anyways.
4:21 yea, it says "it sucks fighting a defensive war on your turf, shit gets blown up."
I would argue the more advanced tech argument. While they had weapons that would bypass their shields, the Federation had quickly adapted to that where it had became a non issue. The Dominion had been in awe of the Federation Tech ability. Engineers who can turn rocks into replicators. While the USS Oddacy was destroyed, it was able to take a pounding and it took a kommakosdy attack from the Dominion to actually destroy her. While the Federation was overconfident of the power of the Galaxy Class starship, it actually held out rather good for what it was up against.
An unless they went with Weyoun's original idea to glass an genocide Earth. Had the Feds lost that's how Humans probably woulda been turned into. Tech experts an makers an soldiers since even the Klingons an in some cases JemHadar noted SOME Human forces, or more specifically some SF Leaders an units, also excelled in combat. Think that's part how we finally made a mostly lasting an basically more or less permanent peace with the Klingons an scared the Vulcans a bit when they found us with our extensive knowledge an tech based around warfare an Martial Arts forms. Just think of a Trek alien race setting out to study outta curiosity, etc some Human martial arts. An realize we've basically got hundreds if not thousands of them an as much or more weapons types an combinations
This should be good. UPDATE: It was!
This video got me thinking. I would like to see a video about life in the Dominion as a citizen compared to the Federation. It has been a while sense I seen DS9, and never really looked for looked for how the Dominion treated it's citizens, but I do not remember much bad about it. What does Dominion "order" they want mean? What freedoms do they have to give up?
I mean they treated the Bajorans pretty good, thats why the vedic had to commit suicide to get Kira to realize they where a real threat
DS9 doesn't really show what civilian life is like on a regular Dominion member planet, the closest we get are two or so episodes featuring the Karemma (a merchant species from the Gamma Quadrant). They seem to be free to do business with whomever they want as evidenced by their trade agreement with the Ferengi, but their economy is also implied to be more tightly regulated than the Ferengi one. The Karemma seem to be doing well overall, but we also don't really learn much about them other than that.
The Dominion are basically the British Empire especially in the last century of the empire.
You get the impression that in a Darwinian galaxy where intelligent species mostly prey on each other, accepting the protection of the Jem'Hadar police force in exchange for military resources and food for the Vorta administrators wasn't actually that bad a deal.
Even though the mirror universe is supposed to be the opposite of Star Trek, I believe the comparison between the Dominion and Star Trek should be based on genetic engineering.
I guess the Level of local self governance, and individual freedoms, would be more important for everyday live, then who is in charge of some distant government.🤔
"...fair..." 😅🔥
They could be if it weren't for the founders' fixation about solids. Something akin to the Sith Council in SWTOR
I have a friend who likened 80s & 90s Trek to understanding the different "cultures" that emerged in America post-1960s. Using the different series as a kind of decoder ring to explain the core motivations of the three main cultures--while stipulating there used to be a few more, but they either got consumed by the main three or they just died out. He also emphasized that the Federation in each show is how each culture group views America and the other aliens could be interpreted as the other culture groups they ally or battle against. The finales of each show being how each culture group's ideal ending of the so-called "Culture Wars" should play out.
By cultures think "Red State vs Blue State" mentality--that's what he means by cultures, and those are the two most popular. The third culture being the one which DS9 focuses on. He labeled that third culture the "White" culture to keep with the patriotic color scheme of "Red White & Blue" that the other two were playing off of.
In any case, to summarize the decoder ring theory, essentially Star Trek reboots itself in the 1980s with The Next Generation, which is a Blue Culture exploration of America and how they see the world. This becomes more the case after Gene Roddenberry's death. Blue Culture in the 1980s was in an alliance of sorts with Red Culture (consider how Left & Right "came together" under Reagan for reference's sake)--this is the era that Centrists long for, and this is reflected in TNG with how the Klingons are portrayed in that show having transitioned from a Russian allegory that they were in the TOS movies. The finale of TNG shows Blue Culture's ideal ending being a consciousness revolution where we stop rebelling and fighting against an authority, but instead submit to it, for it has actually been trying to teach us something all along through said "consciousness expanding" experiences--they've secretly been lessons all along--sort of deal. Blue Culture's main focus thus being on authority, hierarchy, chain of command, and submission to said authority figures--for only in submission and acceptance of our place in the universe can we truly be free. Because when you think about it, that's what All Good Things is, Picard learning to put his ego aside, expand his consciousness for just a moment like a literal "god" figure is telling him to do, and submit to said "God" figure's exercise. As Q puts it: "We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did. ... For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."
If you think this is weird to say of Blue Culture being about "submitting to authority" because you're thinking: "aren't they the Hippies?" just think about how Blue states responded to COVID-19 for a second--following and obeying the authority of the government--encouraging everyone to do so and disparaging those who didn't, and doing what Blue Culture does: contemplating & considering the effects of their actions on other people besides themselves. Blue Culture does want more inclusiveness, but it's in creating more diverse figures of authority aka the "Girl Boss" so to speak. Blue Culture, after absorbing all competing other cultures covers about 40% or thereabouts of the US population. And TNG's interactions with the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassions, the Bajorans, and the Ferengi in this context is the Blue culture group's ups and downs in the alliance with the various portions of Red Culture America and how they view each of those different Red Culture factions. Notice I didn't say the Borg--put a pin in them we'll come back to them when I circle back to DS9.
Then you have Voyager, if you're wondering why I'm skipping to Voyager right now, it's because I figured people know Blue Culture America and Red Culture America, I better talk about Red Culture America next before getting to the third "White" culture they're not as familiar with. Voyager after getting stranded in the Delta Quadrant and Starfleet finishes integrating the Maquis into the crew to the point that they're no longer a plot point in any capacity, makes the Voyager crew an allegory for Red Culture America. It first starts out as an expression of Blue Culture America in Voyager's pilot episode, but once the Maquis rebelling against Janeway is no longer any real concern, Voyager and Starfleet post-Dominion War have turned into an exploration of the American Red Culture. And Red Culture views the world like how Voyager in the Delta Quadrant views it: they're alone in a strange world they don't completely understand, trying to find a way back home to something they do understand. They feel like they're all alone surrounded by enemies who they don't understand nor do they want to. Getting back "home" to something familiar is their goal. How they interact with Species 8472 is actually indicative of how Red Culture America views Blue Culture America--something completely alien, especially with its focus on "organic technology"--but something they eventually come to a begrudging ally of. Other Delta Quadrant species are other expressions of Blue Culture America as seen by Red Culture America--especially when they have bio-tech or organic technology, that's when you really know you're looking at a Red Culture perspective of Blue Culture. Not the Borg, once again, because as I said, I'll get back to the Borg when I talk about DS9. Red Culture America is rather simple to understand and not that hard to get the allegory. Loyalty to the "clan" or "cause" are big themes with them--what that clan or cause is, doesn't matter, moreso the loyalty. Tradition and Family are other big themes as well, as expected. Red Culture in America has about 40% of the American population.
And so we come to DS9 and the purpose for which I made these two comments in the first place, which as I stated before is White Culture America (so named for the Red White and Blue themed naming concept), and is the smallest of the three main cultures. White Culture America is small enough that both Red and Blue culture don't like to admit that White Culture exists publicly even while both are constantly using or stomping on it in order to prevent it from "spreading". That's why the approximately 20% of Americans who subscribe to its worldview are usually divided into smaller categories and assigned to either Red or Blue camps in real life or slapped on the unhelpful label of "Independents" without that label meaning anything--even when that label also gets slapped onto actual Red and Blue factions who like to pretend that Red and Blue both have good ideas, if only they could just get along. Digression aside, White Culture America constantly views itself as under attack from both Red and Blue--who they view as in an unholy alliance against them. The rest of the world is literally out to undermine and attack them, and as such they have to adapt and overcome every obstacle thrown in their path. White Culture America is about them doing so while focusing on eliminating hierarchy and working collectively to do so. White Culture America will work with disaffected members from whichever faction of whatever culture group in order to come together to overthrow the unholy alliance and then defeat the threat of re-emerging Fascists. That's why the crew of DS9 and the Defiant have adherents of all different portions of Red and Blue factions who all become disaffected by their Red and Blue worldviews slowly overtime through interacting with one another, and all come together to work together collectively to win "the war" and defeat the specter of fascism that threatens to set up shop in the aftermath.
The Dominion IS a dark Federation from this White Culture America perspective, but what it ultimately is, is a view of the TNG Federation and 80s-90s Red and Blue Culture alliance from the White culture perspective. Different parts of the Dominion are the different parts of Red and Blue Cultures--the Vorta being the slick media saavy silver tongued way White Culture views Blue Culture America--deferential true-believers to the Founders as authority figures to the point it goes against their own self-interest--and capable of backstabbing you all while smiling. The Jem H'dar thus are the Militaristic faction of Red Culture America of this alliance as viewed by White Culture America. Red Culture are in some respect pitied by White Culture America as they see the Reds as forced to be the exploited grunts and the expendable chess pieces that the Founders throw into the war machine that profits and protects the Founders. Their lives are short violent and harsh with Red Culture being kept under a contemptuous control somewhat by Blue Culture's grip on their healthcare/drugs/propaganda/religion. And the Founders themselves? The ultra-rich Corporate Capitalists or "1%" who use both Red and Blue Culture America to do their bidding, while never giving a fig for the lives they sacrifice so that they can continue to live their self-absorbed and self-indulgent lives unimpeded by lesser beings that they see as utterly beneath them. Starfleet in DS9 is how White Culture America sees itself--as at war with the Dominion, and having to fend off the constant threat of re-emerging Fascism. That's where Gul Dukot, the Pa Wraiths, and Kai Wynn's unholy alliance at the end of the Finale comes in--the remaining factions of the Red Culture America who realize that in a post unholy alliance anti-hierarchy world that there's no place for their desires for power and control, who come together to rebirth Fascism, only to be taken out by a White Culture leader that sacrifices themselves to take out the rebirthed Fascists so that the rest of the collective may live better lives without them. What about the Maquis in DS9? Also Red Culture adherents. And what about the Bajorans? Red Culture adherents--especially of the religious Moral Majority kind. The Cardassians? Nascent Neo-Fascists. The Pa Wraiths? OG Fascists waiting in the wings to re-emerge. The Ferengi? Financial Red Culture adherents. Which is why Rom quoting Marx and forming a union is symbolic of him as a character departing the Finance Red Culture viewpoint. Moogie? She's a Blue Culture Ferengi Girl Boss who works within the system to "liberalize" the Finance Red Culture Ferengi world, and then puts her son Rom in charge. What about that one time Q showed up? Well remember that Sisko punched Q without any qualms--a sign that DS9 wasn't going to be deferential to authority figures, and symbolic of how DS9 was different from TNG. Quark starts out as an adherent of Purple Culture (one of the Cultures in America that didn't last long--and got divided up and absorbed by Red and Blue Cultures in the 1990s after it died in that decade) who turns into a Red Culture Reactionary proto-Make Ferengenar Great Again faction in the end. Odo as the disaffected 1%er who while tempted by the comfortable lifestyle of his "people" ultimately has come to see the rest of the world as worth giving a damn about after "slumming it with the proles" (so to speak). Garrick? A disaffected fascist who has come to see the error of fascism (and thinks they can fix their side) but whom you can never truly be sure of their position on anything. The Prophets? Gods who have little concern over their adherents to the point of being indifferent to their worship of them. The Prophets being how White Culture can best view Q or God. They're the indifferent "watchmakers" who made the watch and then abandoned it to its own devices--and only intervened when annoyed into doing so, or when seeing that the Pa Wraiths (OG Fasicsts) were likely to return. The Starfleet officers could be seen as various factions of White Culture America--O'Brien the long suffering Trade Unionist; Dax the Gender Queer Leftist who gets to live their best life in a fully automated queer space communist society as Jadzia--and as Ezri comes to be respected (specifically referencing how Ezri overcame her self-doubt once assimilating the past lives of the Dax symbiote--to the point she could see things that Jadzia had rose colored glasses about because it was just part of the fun of living their best life, like the Klingon Empire); Sisko the unwitting sacrificial leader who doesn't want to be there nor wants to lead but sees the need for the job to be done so... sigh... I guess I'll do it but only under duress; Worf is an Imperialistic Military-focused Red Culture adherent who learns to appreciate more that the world has to offer beyond his worldview (even begrudgingly conceding to Ezri Dax's point at the end of DS9 that the Klingon Empire might be beyond saving as they've done multiple times now, and is in need of long overdue reforms) and is given the opportunity to try things that Blue Culture TNG wouldn't allow him to do; and lastly Bashir as representative of one of the lucky few who recognize their privilege and then seek to help others who weren't so fortunate as an ally. His story line with the other augments is what I'm referencing here--with Bashir's augmentations being akin to a character from a lower class ascending to a higher one through sheer chance and luck and then not pulling the ladder up behind them, but instead reinforcing and expanding the ladder into a staircase or a ramp so that others can use it more easily--going back and community organizing for the disenfranchised for lack of a better term.
I know some of you who have gotten this far on this little diatribe are likely going: wait a minute, how does the Borg all tie into this, like you said in Blue and Red culture paragraphs? Well, the Borg in TNG and Voyager are how Red and Blue cultures both view White Culture America. This even carries forth into the third season of Picard (most likely unintentionally) where all the "youth" get "assimilated" as a kind of indictment against White Culture's inroads with the younger generations and Red and Blue's failures to do AS well as they used to with younger generations. TNG views the Borg as a completely leaderless anti-hierarchy group where there is no "head of the snake" to lop off--instead it's a many headed hydra. This shifts when the Borg in order to "adapt" to assimilating the Federation adopt a "mouthpiece" who as is shown in subsequent iterations is replaceable. The Borg Queen being more of a thing in Voyager and post-Locutus and First Contact, brings us to how Red Culture America views White Culture America--as hypocrites who can't commit completely to their ideals because they employ a hierarchy to fight hierarchy, but if we take Sisko as representative within DS9 of the idealized version of said leader--the leader's ultimate purpose and position is temporary and is to know when to sacrifice themself for the benefit and survival of the collective. Red Culture America via Voyager as decoder ring views White Culture America as something to temporarily ally itself with in order to "take down Blue Culture America", while Red Culture tends to "fuck with them" consistently. Attempting to "de-assimilate" through the introduction of "individuality", which is a child-like allegory of "deprogramming" and in its worst interpretations in this theory could be taken as an endorsement of "conversion therapy" from a Red Culture's perspective. Notice how in DS9, the Borg while mentioned as part of Sisko's backstory, quickly become a non-entity in DS9 as Sisko goes from a Blue Culture viewpoint to a White Culture viewpoint by working on the station.
I'll wrap this up by explaining Purple Culture in a reply to this comment--for those who care enough about the now dead Purple Culture's worldview from their brief mention in the previous comment.
Purple Culture isn't found in a Star Trek series in this allegory. All I had heard from my friend who was using Star Trek as a decoder ring for his theory about the warring American Culture Memes was that Purple existed, it died and no longer exists today. Being curious I tried to find an example that would similarly display a similar decoder ring to understanding it. And I found it not in Star Trek, but in--of all things--Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman--which as a show was airing as Purple Culture as a meme was rattling its death knell.
Purple Culture is in some ways emblematic of the alliance between Red & Blue cultures under Reagan, Bush Sr & Clinton. They were the architects of that alliance and the glue that held it together you could say. When that alliance died in the 1990s, so did the proponents of Purple Culture. Purple Culture views both Red and Blue Cultures as having "good points" and "bad points" each equally that can be incorporated for the perpetuation of itself. And in such a worldview they would ideally pit both Red and Blue Cultures against one another until both see the other's good points and dispense with their equivalent bad points. This is the formula for Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman in a nutshell.
Dr. Quinn being a Blue Culture Girl Boss Bostonian who has come to the frontier to give "frontier medicine" where she hopes she can be better accepted than back home at Boston where her mother demands she gives up practicing medicine to become a wife and mother. She's surrounded by Red Culture adherents of different stripes and often pitted against them throughout the show. Whether that's the Barber turned Mayor, the General Store Owner, the Banker, or the Saloon Owner who each are a different faction of Red Culture trying to carve out their own interpretation of a new "Home" on the Frontier. The only other Blue Culture adherents being Robert Lee the Blacksmith, the Newspaper owner, Grace the ranch hand turn cafe owner, and the Telegraph Operator in town. They however are so beaten down by the overwhelming control of Red Culture adherents at the start of the show, that they take a little bit of time to come into their own and with the assistance of Dr. Quinn eventually reassert the right to live their lives on their terms and not how Red Culture deems they should--thus providing a nice balance of power between Red and Blue figures that Purple likes to see (to keep both in unending frustration with one another).
You also have the White Culture Sully; well he's White Culture for the first two seasons when he's more influenced by the Cheyenne who are the actual representatives of "White Culture America" in that show along with the Immigrants who live in wagons on the outskirts of Colorado Springs (and who eventually are killed off when rabies comes to town). Sully becomes more of a Red Culture adherent once season 3 rolls around and especially after the Cheyenne are killed. White Culture America gets the ending in that show that Purple Culture thinks it should receive: die or convert.
The show thus takes the paternalistic viewpoint of how each of these various factions deal with living in the late 1860s/early 1870s on the frontier, and how each never truly "defeats" the other, but instead is forced through continual confrontation that never gets anyone anywhere to admit when one or the other, or both have a point, and when both are doing something that just "is too unrealistic to actually implement" to just drop that line of thinking and learn to behave with one another. Purple thus views Red and Blue culture as squabbling children who just need to be "kept in check", and views White culture as "undesirables" to be pitied but ultimately are too dangerous a threat to be tolerated for long.
Purple Culture's ideal is that life would continue to go on this way in a state of perpetual frustration for both Red and Blue cultures and the elimination of White culture America. Yes, Purple Culture is pro-Corporate Culture. What Purple culture never counted on was both Red and Blue Cultures turning around and killing Purple Culture for the sake of having an actual "culture war" with one another in the wake of Purple's death.
And similar to that and the Boomers, comes the self righteous attitude that people seem to have when they’ve submitted to an order and think they’re at the top of it. If you put this into Treks context, Kirk’s generation made sacrifices that Picard’s generation gets to smugly lord over the lesser civilizations. Then the generations after him have to deal with the negative externalities of their predecessors decisions.
If the dominion was really 2000+ years old, it may have come from a different time when resources were not so plentiful and scarcity was the norm. Consider modern times for instance, authoritarian and dictatorial countries can exist and actually be quite prosperous as long as they provide a good economy and plenty of subsidies. Most of the populace will simply look the other way as long as times are good. So in a way it becomes survivorship bias, a whole lot more people lived under dominion rule in all their history and many may have believed being part of the dominion was well worth it compared to the relative scarcity that they may have experienced prior.
An in-depth comparison between Star Trek: DS9 & Fallout: New Vegas...
The Federation = The NCR
The Dominion = Caesar's Legion
The Wormhole = Hoover Dam
We serve the Founders!
The defining difference between the Federation and Dominion is Soft Power and Hard power. Co-optation vs coercion. In reality if organizations like a Federation or Dominion actually existed each would use both kinds of power, to varying degrees, because no body politic is a monolithic structure.
This gets into political philosophy, I can't really say which is worse. An organization that claims to be benign, hence has reason to hide it when they are coercive. Or an organization that's openly coercive and will use soft power when it's more beneficial to do so.
The click bait title definitely worked on me. Just need a longer more in detailed explanation of everything
So I never thought any of this was because of a failed marriage, I forgot about that. I love your takes on things even when I completely disagree with them. When I have a chance I'll go into my own thoughts about the vid later. Keep being controversial, I don't see it as trolling, everything in exsistance deserves to get broken down and anylized, it can help to point out flaws that exsist at times.
Six months after my wife told me she was leaving me.. I was very, very angry and it showed in my videos. I still have to deal with that from people on the left.. I've grown past that though - it's just interesting people still say it.
Lore, I might not be a monetary supporter in some fashion but I've been following you for quite some time.... somewhere In the fuzzy memories I think I may remember you mentioning that. I think it's interesting you say people on the left though lol. I've always viewed you as the guy who purposely tries to look at things from the most alternate viewpoint possible. Keep on trucking, and don't hate on venom btw, you are deffinately creating a diologue, as you always state, those are just my thoughts, what are yours.
And just to confuse people I'm gonna just say ensign sudor(sutor?) Deserved a posthumous award...... and whistle on my way.
@LoreReloaded you are forgeting one important thing. Dominion/Founders will live you alone as long as changelings themselfs aren't in danger. As Dominion war was offensive war there was no need to use every resurses. But if their own existance is in danger then it is a completly different story. Look what happened to Cardassians when Female changeling was cornered and about to lose. Now think about if whole Dominion was in danger? They would take everyone and everything with them if they were about to die.
Every government, no matter how benevolent, bring "peace and prosperity" at the point of the gun.
It is an interesting perspective for sure. I would guess a large number of Dominion citizens would share that perspective, considering pro-Dominion propaganda and in many cases a relatively high standard of living. Doesn't make it right, but it would be difficult to see that from the inside. We, as the audience, see the Starfleet/Federation perspective from the inside, so it's possible we're ignoring certain negative aspects of their government policies as we watch these episodes.
The main difference I think is the Dominion is old enough that they can be driven by fear and the need to maintain power. I can't be the only one to see the similarities to them and the ISC from Starfleet Battles. Like the Federation they're all powerful cooperative confederations with an ultimate goal of peace, they just disagree on how to achieve it.
If we get more trek that touches on the Dominion, I'd love to see how the average Dominion citizen lives. It's probably not that different from the Federation.
i think a healthy mix of both the dominion and the federation would be the way for a stable and relativ fair state.
Okay LORE. When you're talking about the federation in your video here, what universe are we talking about? Are we talking about the discovery? Strange new worlds , that federation that universe or are we talking about the prime line TNG DS9 Voyager that federation universe?
But how does this affect Michael Burnham?
If the Federation stay out on their side of the worm hole would the war have been avoided.?
Hey where did yesterday's livestream go
He mentioned in another post here he didn't like how "passionate" he got, making him look more adversarial than he wanted so he's pulled it and is working on doing a live stream with VGM to discuss together.
@@danielseelye6005 those are the best streams though
Would love to see your response to venom-geeks video Lore
He did a live stream where he responded to venoms video
@@rmcdudmk212 has he uploaded the live response? Can't see it if he has
I didn’t like how .. passionate I got.. we are doing a dual live stream soon
@@LoreReloaded well you need the super-chats to power the warp-drive to keep the lights on my friend
@@LoreReloadedwaterpistols at dawn? 😅
I dont know if there is sny cannon lore or beta lore on it but i would like to see what happened to the dominion in the gamma quadrant after the war ended. Did they keep conquering worlds in the gamma quadrant? Was starfleet allowed to go through the wormhole? They may have lost the war but it wouldnt surprise me if the Dominion maintained a constant fleet right next to their side of the wormhole and told starfleet to keep out.
This brings up a question I've been pondering.
In an age where eyes on video is the coin of the day. Is it better to be wrong and controversial or right and one of the crowd?
It depends on your goal. For views and money- wrong and controversial.. to be right and try to change things? Right .. I'd challenge your assertion that being right makes you one of the crowd
I feel like the child split between Two parents 😅
The liquid federation
I have a lore theory.
Not gonna tell you though.
No Dominion worlds participated in the war? What about Cardassia and its worlds? Check-Mate Mr. @LoreReloaded 😂 Good video as always.
Now let's be fair: He stated no Dominion worlds _in the Gamma Quadrant_ were attacked in the war, but I can see what you're doing there. 😉
"Evil fornicating under carnal knowledge empire"??? Sir, are you really going to pretend that Riza is not the holy world of the Federation?
How where The Cardassians treated under Dominion Rule? before they were brutally massacred in the Season Finale.
Better than they were under Klingon rule. Until they backstabbed the Dominion.
@@MrRich2u Sic Semper Proditores (As Always to Traitors) 😉
Lets face it, the Dominion honestly solves a lot of the issues the Federation has, and if it was for new trek writing, their encounter with the Federation would have set them on a path to far surpass the Federation.
Federation lets diverse crews die on antiquated ships even in periods of "advancement", the Dominion uses vat grown crews mass produced ships and tries not to have their other species abord said ships. "Dominion limits free speech", less than the British government does and the Brits find their model to be the model to base the world off of, so obviously no problem with the Dominion there, and for you backwards Americans, the Dominion wants newpapers to either not the tell the story or tell the truth, no one knows the founders because outside the fact that they exist, no one talks about the founders rather than 24/7 propaganda. "The dominion committed genocide" and the Federation hasn't used bioweapons on planetary populations? Hasn't themselves caused mass genocide? Heck people get so split hair on the issue for the federation lets apply the same split hair approach equally, it was some individual Vorta who committed the every genocide on screen so really the Dominion hasn't committed a single one, the founders just made it possible for those evil individual vorta to do so, like good benevolent leaders.
The terran empire is more like a evil united earth now a evil federation
Oh yeah this is going to piss off a lot of UFP fanboizzzz!
Sounds like Western Neo Colonialism.
Both are imperialist. The difference being the governing style: one is authoritarian and the other, democratic.
not sure about democratic....is there a episode where it is stated, that in a federation world voting takes place?
@@23RaySan I believe the Federation is more akin to the EU system rather than the US.
@@danielseelye6005which wouldn’t be seen as democratic by everyone. I’m American and I don’t really see the EU as being as democratic as the US. Technocratic for sure. As much as the US has its problems, most of us wouldn’t want a federal system where most people are appointed by other, fallible (to put it modestly) politicians.
@@thetrainhopper8992 My thoughts exactly, as a fellow Yank. 👍🏻🦅
@@danielseelye6005 which is also a conversation to be had about where the Federation derives its legitimacy from. Is it the voters or the governments of the member worlds? It’s probably the latter.
There were certain individuals in the USSR that wanted to create a servile sub-race using genetic engineering to mix humans and chimps.
It didn't work but would it be that different from the Jem'Hadar?
The new federation but with less plot armor. 👍
Kirk for one WAS the plot armor
@@JohnSmith-xq1pz especially when Kirk's shirt gets ripped
Bold weyoun claims.. seeing as he got shot in the chest by the end. Even those like the female changeling had more respect for her enemies then HIM.
Lore Reloaded. I love you bro. That entro 😂😂
Eddington, is that you?