I think it's important to show the ideal coming out scenarios because its not always about the person who is coming out. It's about educating people about how to react to a friend, a son, a coworker coming out. Showing them how to support is really important.
Honestly the mom's speech is probably my favorite scene in the movie, because as ideal as it is it makes perfect sense that *she* would approach things like that based on the character that she's been portrayed as up to that point. I mean hypothetically if you had a mom like that who's been caring and sensitive like she's been throughout the movie, then you expect her to be that nice. And if you can't, then who the hell can you expect that from? The audience has already made the distinction between their own parents and these parents, but simply hearing that from a person who exists is sort relatable in itself because it has to remind us of at least one caring person that we've met, and what we expect them to say.
I as a gay man I enjoy the film it helps break down the barriers. If we start getting offended about everything we can't stop and enjoy how far we have come from
I had to keep reminding myself that they are reviewing the film as it relates to them. As a 67 year old, my experience has been so much like the films they've reviewed. Broke Back Mountain, Call Me by Your Name, Love Simon, have all been a part of my combined experience.
I don’t understand how you can spend all that time talk about stereotypical gay vs non stereotypical gay and not talk about the scene between Simon and Ethan outside the principal’s office that scene really rectified the issue. Simon is this “I’m not that kind of gay” gay person and Ethan is this fabulous fem gay guy. They talk about the two different experiences. I would just argue that movie is arguing for everyone to present how ever they want.
I know :( we had to cut a lot out of the video, but that is a really important scene in the movie. We’ve all heard our straight friends say: “oh, my friend’s gay, I’ll set you up”. I feel like this scene is also a counter to that way of thinking?
@@AStoryWorthTelling I totally understand, I just wanted to point that out. Also at the start of the movie while Ethan is being bullied Simon says “I wish he wouldn’t make it so easy for them”. But then they’re able to compare experience and Ethan is able to point out it’s easy for him. I wouldn’t say “Love, Simon” is perfect but I think it did a pretty great job. There was a lot of nuances to Simon’s initial ideology and the message presented at the end of the movie. The story of queer people being able to present however they want is continued with “Love, Victor”(same creators as Love, Simon)
@@AStoryWorthTelling I actually really appreciated the point that was made. I do think that it's really meaningful especially for folks in the community, to talk in a way that reinforces these caricatured stereotypes. Those references where we act like there is a "normal" vs. not normal is really impactful - including talking about acting/ passing as straight being "normal". I'm glad you said something.
In the intro Simon was actually talking to Blue (in retrospective), he wasn't talking to all of us. Please, be more kind to Simon - he has a beautiful soul.
Guy on the left. My left. I'm Not sure what he actually wants to happen here. Every scene he talks about he comes at it like.. I'm afraid it's not representing certain ppl. How does scene represent everyone? The things that happen in this movie actually happen. TO GAY PEOPLE. Rich white boys can be gay too, just wanna say that. Now should the focus be on rich white boys coming out? No. If that was your point I could get on board with that. But this movie did what it was supposed to do in the setting it was placed. My only thing would be that "not that gay moment" however that is just my feeling. But in the context of this film. Simon isn't that kind of gay. Because we're not all one kind of gay. And that is fine. This movie is called Love Simon. Which follows, Simon. His life, his story, his experience. Your life story and experience if one were to write it out and put it on screen would not represent all of us. And that my friend, would be quite okay. If this movie were called Love Gay. And this was what we got. I'd be in your corner championing everything you said. But it's not. Context matters. I would like to acknowledge you saying that you don't think there was negative representation at the end but my focus was on your commentary before that. Peace and Love.
I think it's important to keep in mind that nearly every other coming out story in film has been about traumatic experiences - or at least, those were the ones I grew up with. So this is representing those whose coming outs were more ideal, since they never really got to see their story before, not from Hollywood mainstream anyway. If you want traumatic coming out stories, there are more than enough to choose from. Now I'm really curious what you guys would think of Big Eden, or In & Out. 🤭
Has been a while but I remember I appreciated the mom's speech, even though it's still far from reality in many cases (mine for instance XD) it gives a fair example on how to handle it to parents who are sadly far, far, far away from knowing anything about the LGBTQ+ world.
"entry level, feel good movie" is exactly what it is....... They aren't "pandering"....to the audience. I think this film saved and will save a lot of young lives..... the message is IT'S OK TO BE GAY.
Sorry dudes, don’t know your names but loved y’all’s reaction. It was good to hear both of your opinions and how they differ. My coming out story wasn’t like Simon’s with loving parents. I was disowned and til this day I don’t have a relationship with my family. This movie however gave me hope for future LGBTQ+ kids and their experience. I can’t change what my coming out story was like and I wouldn’t trade it for a better story because it’s made me who I am today. That said, I think this movie was beautifully made and I could be wrong but I don’t think we were the target audience. We as LGBTQ+ people need to stop feeling offended simply because someone else had a different experience than we did. Just my two cents worth… PS- Tank top guy… 😉
For me this film is simply Simon's experience of coming out, his own personal story. The film is called Love, Simon; not Love, Everyone. I think to appreciate this film more you must see some of the classic gay films to see how far the community has come. 😉😁
Thanks for your comment :) Definitely agree that we’ve come such a long way as a community! It’s important too to reflect on how these characters present as role models to the younger generation of lgbtq+ people coming through their own coming out journey 🌈
Love Simon opened the door for so many other movies and shows and he should always respect that, was the movie perfect of course not what movie is… but it was a great movie for the time it came out and I’m sure I’m sure it helped a lot of people and still does
I love watching you guys. I really enjoyed watching Love, Simon. It had it's moments but finally seeing representation in a mainstream movie was quite powerful. I actually watched it at the cinema. I think at the start of the movie is does actually reflect the thought process a number of queer youth go through. The I'm normal but have this secret. Whilst we are normal as queer people, coming into a world with little or poor representation it's easy to feel that way. The movie had a couple of moments which were a bit cringe but overall as mainstream cinema's first real LGBTQ+ romcom it was alright. When I was growing up the only Gay representation we had in the media was Sir Elton John, Graham Norton and the characters in Priscilla! Queen of the Desert. None of those represented the kind of person that I am. Whilst every queer person and their experiences are valid I think it's going to take a lot more movies showing the different types of characters for everyone to find one that they can relate to. Josh was certainly right, once you leave high school no one cares and you do have that freedom to be yourself and to explore who you are. You get the odd person who can be a bit of a d!ck but (at least here in South Australia) most people are just lovely. I've attended pride with work and my colleagues and friends and the incredible sense of inclusion you get from being involved in the queer community gives you that sense of belonging. (Also the year that the Government paid out that extra a put a rainbow design on an ambulance and replace the standard green leaves in the logo with rainbow coloured leaves - something they've done every year since - gave an incredible sense of inclusion). Can't wait to see your next review.
Really appreciate your thoughts on this, its always great to hear other perspectives. School can be difficult for so many young LGBT people and events like Pride are so great to go and find a supportive group! Thanks so much for your support x
What I liked most about this movie is that it exists. It's a tiny bit of soft representation for the general public of all ages to see. Definitely a step in the right direction. I've read the book more than I've seen the movie, and most of the issues I had in the movie were not actually in the book. I imagine those were choices made to appease the larger straight audience. One that comes to mind is the whole Ferris wheel scene where Simon was essentially forcing Blue to out himself in front of the whole school. Why would he do that after getting outed himself? Because it makes for an "exciting" climax to a movie. It did not go down that way in the book. Anyway, great reaction! Loved what you had to say. I'm new to your channel so I'm looking forward to catching up on your videos. Cheers! 🌈
I love how different your opinions are. It opens the room for more discussion and prospectives. It feels like a very educational conversation. Love watching the videos.
i know this is an older video, but the scene of the mom making the speech always makes me cry not because of how beautiful it is or because i can relate to it but because that’s what i wanted to hear and what i needed when i was going through everything and it’s just comforting but also kinda heartbreaking at the same time
I agree: everyone’s coming out experience is different, both because of how others react and how the person thinks of it, their cultural framework. So … yes, there are some ways in which the film does not represent everyone, but it can’t. This is an example of a person’s experience, and there some some great moments and some cringe or upsetting moments. I loved it, very cute movie, some drama like in other high school romance representations, but not as dark as past high school gay representations.
I, for one, loved this movie. The scenes with Jennifer Garner and later Josh Duhamel are very relatable. I wish my parents had such an example when I was a teen.
As a child who grew up gay in the 70s, it is important to know that the stereotypes that you find distasteful in the movie are the very ones we had for ourselves. And this is still true today in those areas where there is more conservative and fewer examples and so this movie also speaks to those of us who did not have the chances to see the not-stereotype and embraced how the film portrayed it in a way that made us feel okay about ourselves.
Although flawed, "Love , Simon" has many wonderful scenes and relatable themes. The line his mother says "you can now get to be more you than you've ever been" is dead on, because many of us hide parts of ourselves before we come out or accept ourselves. I also love that it is marketed as a mainstream gay, coming out, Romcom. I find this movie a success, and a tearjerker every time I watch it. Yet, although I love the movie, your views are insightful and eye opening. I had never realized many of the legit criticisms you point out. BTW you guys are great.
It’s important to point out that everyone’s coming out experience is different. There is no correct way to portray it. There are a lot of movies that portray traumatic and horrible coming out experiences.
I agree that this movie has a lot of issues. It's not perfect by any means. But what it _does_ do really well is portraying being gay and coming out to your friends and family in a healthy way. Simon's story doesn't end in tragedy, which happened way too much in older movies. His parents and friends still love him (although I do have some problems with the friends), and he ends up getting the guy at the end. It's definitely the ideal coming out, but I feel like that was needed. I think this was the movie that started breaking down those stigmas of "gay relationships never end happily" or "you can't be gay because this or that", and then stuff like Heartstopper is continuing it
I love Love Simon. For me it's a fairly simple entertaining love story that brought tears to my eyes. Also Call Me By Your Name has me devastated every time I see it, especially Elio's father's speech at the end. Can you do one on Netflix's Your Name Engraved Herein? That's another that breaks my heart too. Great videos guys :)
Thanks so much for your comment. Yes! Call me by your name is on the list! And we will check out your name engraved herein, thanks for the suggestions x
I think you both made very good points in this video, but I honestly don't get the whole "this scene don't represent all of the experiences of the LGBTQ+ community". How would that be possible? How can we expect a movie, or any movie, to represent the experiences of a whole community? Is there any movie that can do that? Any scene? Any relationship? The experiences we have as a community are so vast and so different that if you go to any kind of media product expecting to be fully represented, you're undoubtedly gonna be disapointed. I think your point is valid, tho you have to understand the value of having an mainstream coming of age LGBTQ+ movie. I think that got lost in the video. Considering where we started and the world we live in, we all wish we could have more progressive narratives in theathers, this is just one the the first few. All said and done, great video guys.
The standard rom-com formula is: boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl, boy has fight with girl, and boy makes up with girl. Because Blue, the person Simon loves is unknown until practically the last scene in the movie, the breakup is really with his friends, and the make up is also with his friends. The downside of Love, Simon is that it's more of a quest to find love, and about the actual relationship itself. As you mention, this is kind of a safe movie about the topic so it's really more about Simon's relationship with his friends.
I actually loved the movie, as its one of the first, if not the first meanstream queer movie on a happy note/with a happy end. Just a classic teen rom com. Its not about realism but just being the same as the straight movies of this sort.
I don't really feel like this movie is putting down gay guys who are more stereotypical. The opening just reflects his first email to Blue. It's almost the exact same words. And maybe Simon is somewhat averse to being "that way" but that's a reflection of his own fear and internalized homophobia. Later in the movie, you get to see more of Ethan and he's a likeable character and Simon and him have a little moment there, so I feel like the movie is saying in a way that there are different ways to be gay, but this one is from Simon's perspective and he's someone who maybe at his age hasn't fully realized that he can stray from gender roles quite yet. I think it's a very well done movie. Simon's view isn't necessarily the view of the writers.
Personally Simon represents how me and a lot of gay youth growing up in the suburbs of the US. When he says he's normal he's quite literally saying he's like everyone else...normal. That speaks to the point we've all felt, why do I have to feel like I'm different because I'm gay? I think you. guys and a lot of people miss that point. Also, I'm not sure the film is dismissing others people experience being gay it's highlighting that some people don't exist in the gay stereotype that most people imagine gay people are. The film quite literally is dismissing that stereotype and saying you can be gay in your own way.
I agree unfortunately ik friends who have come out to their parents and they haven't had the best reactions. So this movie and Simon's parents supporting him in the way that they did is almost a universal way of reassuring those people that there are others who support them and will love them always
Some movies & mini-series I recommend: The Portrait of a Lady on Fire Carol Elisa & Marcela Angels in America Great Freedom Firebird Bedrooms & Hallways Weekend
I discovered your channel only recently because of Heartstopper and have been watching them at random and out of order. I notice that Josh seems to often get quite a bit emotional at certain coming out and acceptance moments and I hope he might share one day or in the podcast about his own experience - did he have some special hurt in his past that makes him particularly sensitive to the goodness experienced by those who found accepting people in their lives?
Is good to remember the story (as in the book) is written by a queer author. A queer cis woman though, not a man. So no totally based on her experiences. I also think the director of the film was a gay man (but in all honestly i’m just 90% sure of that, not 100%).
It was also adapted for screen by a gay screenwriter and director. A lot of the stuff that I see often getting complaints in the movie are movie only, so I always suggest reading the book too. The friends in the book are much better friends, for instance. And the scene at the end with Simon and Graham is handled much differently in the book as well.
Hi there, I have two thoughts on how parents reaction to a child coming out to them. First, I think representation of what kids experience, good and bad, is important. People need to see what happens and understand the effects a parents reaction can have on their children. Second, my wife and I have a son that’s gay and I don’t think we should be praised for being accepting of his identity. I’m proud that it is not an issue to us but I don’t think anyone should pat themselves on the back for doing what’s right.
I don't think Simon is supposed to represent Every Gay. No one could actually do that accurately anyway. Simon is just one unique gay boy and this is His experience and how He views it. He's also still discovering himself, so he is relying on and rebelling against the stereotypes. And Jennifer Garner killed it❤. I am jaded enough, tho, to not like the ending. Not because they get together in a romantic kissing moment, but because the crowd was so invested in the outcome. En masse, people are just not that interested in someone else's happy ending unless it's celebrity or fictional
I think the issue with love Simon and queer rep in general fall down to one thing. There isn't enough of it. If there was more Queer representation then love Simon being overly optimistic and idealistic wouldn't be an issue as there would be other shows and films depicting the different experiences of queer people. Showing the story's that aren't told here. Because at the end of the day on piece of representation cannot depict the entirety of all different queer experiences someone is always gunna be left out. And that's why we need a shitload more. Thankyou for coming to my TED talk.
I watched it for the first time last night. I had to pause several times due to toe-curling 2nd hand embarrassment every time the deputy principal opened his mouth and Martin's pursuit of Abby with very public declarations of admiration and love. Nobody suffered the negative consequences they should have. Martin should at the very least have been shunned for outing Simon, if not reported to the police for the blackmail. I didn't catch the two boys' names but since they humiliated Simon and Ethan in front of the whole school they should have been made to apologise in front of the whole school, not in the privacy of the deputy principal's office. I disagree with the idea that Simon's friends should have been more empathetic with his situation when they discovered the way he'd been attempting to emotionally manipulate them. They had every right to feel hurt and angry in the moment. These are 16? 17? year olds. They need time to process their emotions, then hopefully find their way to empathy and forgiveness.
I agree that some of the movie was Hollywood. That house in that neighborhood? The part where all his friends reject me- too, too formulaic. Martin paying the golden ticket? Sorry, but id ask all my friends ti beat the crap out of him. Mom being the loving, caring person? I keep falling back on my mother who was tiny but part pitbull, which is another whole story. She tried to talk me out of it and tried to conclude with, "You're not gay. You're just confused." However, i blew up and yelled at her. For the rest of her life, we were careful to have more innocuous topics like mass murder. She kept waiting for me to come to my senses and settle down with ANY girl.
The thing is, Simon's mom is a psychotherapist, and she would never, ever say that this was a phase. You're right, though. There are mothers who would not be so accepting. But as @kevinnivek2199 points out in a comment above, this is Simon's story, told from Simon's perspective from Simon's lived experience. No one should expect their coming out to mirror Simon's.
Hey guys! (Or should I still say La?) I don't know how to word my thoughts on this film to be honest lol, but I loved hearing yours again. I do think the book handles the situation with Simon's friends better, and when he comes out to Abby, and just most things in general really lol, but I did like the inclusion of Ethan in the film to show a bit of representation of a more stereotypical gay person too. Also as great (and cute) as Nick Robinson is playing Simon I kinda wish he resembled book Simon more accurately as well, but nothing's ever perfect eh lmao. Looking forward to your next video :)
LA! Thank you so much for all your support and comments. We really value your thoughts too. Literally So much to talk about and we could go on all day haha. x
I am really enjoying your vids. I have been an ally since before that was a term, but I forget that my view of LGBT+ representation in media is from the straight perspective and what I find positive may not be exactly the best way because as you said, it is made pallatable for general audiences. So even at 47, I am finding out I always have more I can learn to be a better ally.
Kids can be mean but we also do them a terrible disservice by segregating by age so they don’t have to help raise up the younger or learn from the older, and simultaneously robbing them of any meaningful adult guidance. Kids need social guidance, period. Schools are just kid warehouses so that adults can be efficiently exploited, designed for control, not individual actualization or growth. Schools will never be harm free because one exhausted adult cannot properly raise 30 children in an artificial social structure. It’s insanity to expect that to work. Definitely with Alex on the overall vibe of this movie. I’m sure someone else here will rant about the film vs. book ending and how “for the het” gaze it is. So glad we have better rep than this in other stories. Love you both 🌈✨💕 Tks for the content 😊
If he started off thinking being gay is normal, there wouldn’t really be any plot. Figuring out what he is and how to be okay with it is the whole point. Simon thinking he’s normal other then his gayness is part of the story, standard character building. They get shit on for not showing gay people then get shit on when they do, shit on when it’s too sad then when it’s too happy. As ‘one of them’, try to appreciate it for what it is like your friend there. Not everything has to be a political statement man.
Just watched your guys video for the first ep of heartstopper. I LOVE heartstopper so the roasts at first felt harsh but I'm definitely gonna watch the rest of y'all's reaction to it. ANYWAY watching it made me realize I needed to see you guys react to love Simon bc I HATED this movie and I needed to see at least one of you roast it Edit: hates a strong word. I don't hate that it exists but I hate how it made me feel while watching it, which was mostly back and forth between cringing and annoyed lmao
Dudes, it's a freaking gay fairytale. Why do only straight folks get Frozen and The Little Mermaid? Realistic? Who cares. I dream of a world where parents read this kind of story to their children as they fall asleep, 🥰
Because the vast majorityof people on planet earth are heterosexual and the chances are in the vast majority cases a childs parents are both straight.That cannot be helped that homosexuals are a minority, it's just the way things are and it's not heterosexual peoples fault. Most of us would not be here today if our parents had not been heterosexual. Disney infact has lost a lot of money going woke. Romances between heterosexual couples appeal more to most heterosexual people, just like homosexual romances appeal more to homosexual audiences. There is nothing stopping the LGBT community making these type of movies and even a gay disney fairytale movie though for gay audiences or whoever else wants to see it.
Ok, being American I appreciate your efforts with dressing like what Love Simon passes as the average American high school student at an average American high school. Maybe 5 percent representation here. Lol I enjoy the flick as a Ferris Bueller gay themed feel good movie. But saying this is great cinema for the gay world well Gods Own Country is great cinema and then some. This movie is snack food . I wish you guys would review Latter DYs another feel good flick and not as far fetched as Love Simon. BTW I. Think the actor who plays the dad is hot. I commented last week that I just found your channel and it has become my late night guilty pleasure. You both are VERY good at what your doing. So again thank you. Love your accents btw.
react to Holding The Man ♥️ released in 2015 its an Australian gay movie. met with wide acclaim.based on real life story of two lovers getting diagnosed with AIDS
What I hated about this movie is that the kid that outed him Nothing happened to him I have never seen something so hateful about this kid doing that it was not simon fault he made a fell out of himself Simon was f???king outed and this kid was still in school the next day he needed to be kicked out of school because Simon could’ve killed him self
My feelings on this movie is that is a very palatable (bland) story, on purpose, that has a few very well written/directed/acted that hit me where I live. It got the important bits right, and the rest was designed to make those important bits swallowable by people who don't experience them.
You should check out the TV spinoff love victor it is a lot better than the flim and more diverse I enjoyed love Simon a lot but I do think love victor is better
Yea, I couldn't empathize wirh Simon. I found his claim on normalcy offensive. Like, who actually gets to live a life where their sexuality is their only struggle? Just too idealized; I'm happy some people get perfect parents, but as someone who was purposefully outed by a sibling & then disowned by parents, this was never gonna be a movie for me. Turned it off during the build up to the ferris wheel scene. Pretty disgusted with the notion he was okay with forcing Blue to out himself in front of everyone else. 😕 I don't hate the character, but since I found him so unrelatable I just couldn't care.
Gay actors have played straight characters for decades. Why the double standard? Or maybe you believe only straight actors should play straight characters, as well?
So obvious this film was written and made by straight people about what they though "coming out" was like. As usual, the majority of people don't realise that coming out is an individual experience for everybody. I was incredibly lucky (for the time I came out) and the majority of people were incredibly accepting. In 1975, the only role models for gay people were Larry Grayson and John Inman.
Is it obvious? Would you be surprised if I told you the author of the book the film is based on is bisexual, and the director of the film is a gay man?
I think it's important to show the ideal coming out scenarios because its not always about the person who is coming out. It's about educating people about how to react to a friend, a son, a coworker coming out. Showing them how to support is really important.
Honestly the mom's speech is probably my favorite scene in the movie, because as ideal as it is it makes perfect sense that *she* would approach things like that based on the character that she's been portrayed as up to that point. I mean hypothetically if you had a mom like that who's been caring and sensitive like she's been throughout the movie, then you expect her to be that nice. And if you can't, then who the hell can you expect that from? The audience has already made the distinction between their own parents and these parents, but simply hearing that from a person who exists is sort relatable in itself because it has to remind us of at least one caring person that we've met, and what we expect them to say.
I as a gay man I enjoy the film it helps break down the barriers. If we start getting offended about everything we can't stop and enjoy how far we have come from
I had to keep reminding myself that they are reviewing the film as it relates to them. As a 67 year old, my experience has been so much like the films they've reviewed. Broke Back Mountain, Call Me by Your Name, Love Simon, have all been a part of my combined experience.
I don’t understand how you can spend all that time talk about stereotypical gay vs non stereotypical gay and not talk about the scene between Simon and Ethan outside the principal’s office that scene really rectified the issue. Simon is this “I’m not that kind of gay” gay person and Ethan is this fabulous fem gay guy. They talk about the two different experiences. I would just argue that movie is arguing for everyone to present how ever they want.
I know :( we had to cut a lot out of the video, but that is a really important scene in the movie. We’ve all heard our straight friends say: “oh, my friend’s gay, I’ll set you up”. I feel like this scene is also a counter to that way of thinking?
@@AStoryWorthTelling I totally understand, I just wanted to point that out. Also at the start of the movie while Ethan is being bullied Simon says “I wish he wouldn’t make it so easy for them”. But then they’re able to compare experience and Ethan is able to point out it’s easy for him. I wouldn’t say “Love, Simon” is perfect but I think it did a pretty great job. There was a lot of nuances to Simon’s initial ideology and the message presented at the end of the movie. The story of queer people being able to present however they want is continued with “Love, Victor”(same creators as Love, Simon)
@@AStoryWorthTelling I actually really appreciated the point that was made. I do think that it's really meaningful especially for folks in the community, to talk in a way that reinforces these caricatured stereotypes. Those references where we act like there is a "normal" vs. not normal is really impactful - including talking about acting/ passing as straight being "normal". I'm glad you said something.
In the intro Simon was actually talking to Blue (in retrospective), he wasn't talking to all of us. Please, be more kind to Simon - he has a beautiful soul.
he's literally struggling with coming out, I don't know why they expect him to be perfect
Guy on the left. My left.
I'm Not sure what he actually wants to happen here. Every scene he talks about he comes at it like.. I'm afraid it's not representing certain ppl.
How does scene represent everyone? The things that happen in this movie actually happen. TO GAY PEOPLE.
Rich white boys can be gay too, just wanna say that. Now should the focus be on rich white boys coming out? No. If that was your point I could get on board with that.
But this movie did what it was supposed to do in the setting it was placed. My only thing would be that "not that gay moment" however that is just my feeling. But in the context of this film. Simon isn't that kind of gay. Because we're not all one kind of gay. And that is fine.
This movie is called Love Simon. Which follows, Simon. His life, his story, his experience.
Your life story and experience if one were to write it out and put it on screen would not represent all of us. And that my friend, would be quite okay.
If this movie were called Love Gay. And this was what we got. I'd be in your corner championing everything you said. But it's not. Context matters.
I would like to acknowledge you saying that you don't think there was negative representation at the end but my focus was on your commentary before that.
Peace and Love.
Frfr
I think it's important to keep in mind that nearly every other coming out story in film has been about traumatic experiences - or at least, those were the ones I grew up with. So this is representing those whose coming outs were more ideal, since they never really got to see their story before, not from Hollywood mainstream anyway. If you want traumatic coming out stories, there are more than enough to choose from.
Now I'm really curious what you guys would think of Big Eden, or In & Out. 🤭
Has been a while but I remember I appreciated the mom's speech, even though it's still far from reality in many cases (mine for instance XD) it gives a fair example on how to handle it to parents who are sadly far, far, far away from knowing anything about the LGBTQ+ world.
Really good point! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts! X
"entry level, feel good movie" is exactly what it is....... They aren't "pandering"....to the audience. I think this film saved and will save a lot of young lives..... the message is IT'S OK TO BE GAY.
Sorry dudes, don’t know your names but loved y’all’s reaction.
It was good to hear both of your opinions and how they differ.
My coming out story wasn’t like Simon’s with loving parents.
I was disowned and til this day I don’t have a relationship with my family.
This movie however gave me hope for future LGBTQ+ kids and their experience.
I can’t change what my coming out story was like and I wouldn’t trade it for a better story because it’s made me who I am today.
That said, I think this movie was beautifully made and I could be wrong but I don’t think we were the target audience. We as LGBTQ+ people need to stop feeling offended simply because someone else had a different experience than we did. Just my two cents worth…
PS-
Tank top guy… 😉
15:57 They’re faces are saying everything 😂. Josh: What a cute scene!
Alex: I’m gonna roast this movie again!😈
For me this film is simply Simon's experience of coming out, his own personal story. The film is called Love, Simon; not Love, Everyone. I think to appreciate this film more you must see some of the classic gay films to see how far the community has come. 😉😁
Thanks for your comment :) Definitely agree that we’ve come such a long way as a community! It’s important too to reflect on how these characters present as role models to the younger generation of lgbtq+ people coming through their own coming out journey 🌈
Love Simon opened the door for so many other movies and shows and he should always respect that, was the movie perfect of course not what movie is… but it was a great movie for the time it came out and I’m sure I’m sure it helped a lot of people and still does
I love watching you guys. I really enjoyed watching Love, Simon. It had it's moments but finally seeing representation in a mainstream movie was quite powerful. I actually watched it at the cinema.
I think at the start of the movie is does actually reflect the thought process a number of queer youth go through. The I'm normal but have this secret. Whilst we are normal as queer people, coming into a world with little or poor representation it's easy to feel that way.
The movie had a couple of moments which were a bit cringe but overall as mainstream cinema's first real LGBTQ+ romcom it was alright.
When I was growing up the only Gay representation we had in the media was Sir Elton John, Graham Norton and the characters in Priscilla! Queen of the Desert. None of those represented the kind of person that I am. Whilst every queer person and their experiences are valid I think it's going to take a lot more movies showing the different types of characters for everyone to find one that they can relate to.
Josh was certainly right, once you leave high school no one cares and you do have that freedom to be yourself and to explore who you are. You get the odd person who can be a bit of a d!ck but (at least here in South Australia) most people are just lovely.
I've attended pride with work and my colleagues and friends and the incredible sense of inclusion you get from being involved in the queer community gives you that sense of belonging.
(Also the year that the Government paid out that extra a put a rainbow design on an ambulance and replace the standard green leaves in the logo with rainbow coloured leaves - something they've done every year since - gave an incredible sense of inclusion).
Can't wait to see your next review.
Really appreciate your thoughts on this, its always great to hear other perspectives. School can be difficult for so many young LGBT people and events like Pride are so great to go and find a supportive group! Thanks so much for your support x
What I liked most about this movie is that it exists. It's a tiny bit of soft representation for the general public of all ages to see. Definitely a step in the right direction. I've read the book more than I've seen the movie, and most of the issues I had in the movie were not actually in the book. I imagine those were choices made to appease the larger straight audience.
One that comes to mind is the whole Ferris wheel scene where Simon was essentially forcing Blue to out himself in front of the whole school. Why would he do that after getting outed himself? Because it makes for an "exciting" climax to a movie. It did not go down that way in the book.
Anyway, great reaction! Loved what you had to say. I'm new to your channel so I'm looking forward to catching up on your videos. Cheers! 🌈
I love how different your opinions are. It opens the room for more discussion and prospectives. It feels like a very educational conversation. Love watching the videos.
Another great review chaps! Josh showing that the running is paying off!
i know this is an older video, but the scene of the mom making the speech always makes me cry not because of how beautiful it is or because i can relate to it but because that’s what i wanted to hear and what i needed when i was going through everything and it’s just comforting but also kinda heartbreaking at the same time
I agree: everyone’s coming out experience is different, both because of how others react and how the person thinks of it, their cultural framework. So … yes, there are some ways in which the film does not represent everyone, but it can’t. This is an example of a person’s experience, and there some some great moments and some cringe or upsetting moments. I loved it, very cute movie, some drama like in other high school romance representations, but not as dark as past high school gay representations.
I, for one, loved this movie. The scenes with Jennifer Garner and later Josh Duhamel are very relatable. I wish my parents had such an example when I was a teen.
Since I was out at age 14 (back in 1975), I wasn't just eyeing the other boys up in class!
I love having 2 people reacting so I can see two different opinions & side of views. I LOVE U guys 💙😚😇
As a child who grew up gay in the 70s, it is important to know that the stereotypes that you find distasteful in the movie are the very ones we had for ourselves. And this is still true today in those areas where there is more conservative and fewer examples and so this movie also speaks to those of us who did not have the chances to see the not-stereotype and embraced how the film portrayed it in a way that made us feel okay about ourselves.
Although flawed, "Love , Simon" has many wonderful scenes and relatable themes. The line his mother says "you can now get to be more you than you've ever been" is dead on, because many of us hide parts of ourselves before we come out or accept ourselves. I also love that it is marketed as a mainstream gay, coming out, Romcom. I find this movie a success, and a tearjerker every time I watch it. Yet, although I love the movie, your views are insightful and eye opening. I had never realized many of the legit criticisms you point out. BTW you guys are great.
It’s important to point out that everyone’s coming out experience is different. There is no correct way to portray it. There are a lot of movies that portray traumatic and horrible coming out experiences.
I agree that this movie has a lot of issues. It's not perfect by any means. But what it _does_ do really well is portraying being gay and coming out to your friends and family in a healthy way. Simon's story doesn't end in tragedy, which happened way too much in older movies. His parents and friends still love him (although I do have some problems with the friends), and he ends up getting the guy at the end. It's definitely the ideal coming out, but I feel like that was needed. I think this was the movie that started breaking down those stigmas of "gay relationships never end happily" or "you can't be gay because this or that", and then stuff like Heartstopper is continuing it
I love Love Simon. For me it's a fairly simple entertaining love story that brought tears to my eyes. Also Call Me By Your Name has me devastated every time I see it, especially Elio's father's speech at the end. Can you do one on Netflix's Your Name Engraved Herein? That's another that breaks my heart too. Great videos guys :)
Thanks so much for your comment. Yes! Call me by your name is on the list! And we will check out your name engraved herein, thanks for the suggestions x
I love the scene when Simon’s mother gives her motherly love to Simon. It is the nicest scene in the movie.
The leafblower guy deserved more screentime.
I think you both made very good points in this video, but I honestly don't get the whole "this scene don't represent all of the experiences of the LGBTQ+ community". How would that be possible? How can we expect a movie, or any movie, to represent the experiences of a whole community? Is there any movie that can do that? Any scene? Any relationship?
The experiences we have as a community are so vast and so different that if you go to any kind of media product expecting to be fully represented, you're undoubtedly gonna be disapointed.
I think your point is valid, tho you have to understand the value of having an mainstream coming of age LGBTQ+ movie. I think that got lost in the video. Considering where we started and the world we live in, we all wish we could have more progressive narratives in theathers, this is just one the the first few.
All said and done, great video guys.
The standard rom-com formula is: boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl, boy has fight with girl, and boy makes up with girl. Because Blue, the person Simon loves is unknown until practically the last scene in the movie, the breakup is really with his friends, and the make up is also with his friends. The downside of Love, Simon is that it's more of a quest to find love, and about the actual relationship itself. As you mention, this is kind of a safe movie about the topic so it's really more about Simon's relationship with his friends.
I actually loved the movie, as its one of the first, if not the first meanstream queer movie on a happy note/with a happy end. Just a classic teen rom com. Its not about realism but just being the same as the straight movies of this sort.
I don't really feel like this movie is putting down gay guys who are more stereotypical. The opening just reflects his first email to Blue. It's almost the exact same words. And maybe Simon is somewhat averse to being "that way" but that's a reflection of his own fear and internalized homophobia. Later in the movie, you get to see more of Ethan and he's a likeable character and Simon and him have a little moment there, so I feel like the movie is saying in a way that there are different ways to be gay, but this one is from Simon's perspective and he's someone who maybe at his age hasn't fully realized that he can stray from gender roles quite yet. I think it's a very well done movie. Simon's view isn't necessarily the view of the writers.
I once heard Jennifer Garner say that when she did the scene telling Simon he could be more himself that there was not a dry eye in the crew.
Personally Simon represents how me and a lot of gay youth growing up in the suburbs of the US. When he says he's normal he's quite literally saying he's like everyone else...normal. That speaks to the point we've all felt, why do I have to feel like I'm different because I'm gay? I think you. guys and a lot of people miss that point. Also, I'm not sure the film is dismissing others people experience being gay it's highlighting that some people don't exist in the gay stereotype that most people imagine gay people are. The film quite literally is dismissing that stereotype and saying you can be gay in your own way.
I agree unfortunately ik friends who have come out to their parents and they haven't had the best reactions. So this movie and Simon's parents supporting him in the way that they did is almost a universal way of reassuring those people that there are others who support them and will love them always
Some movies & mini-series I recommend:
The Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Carol
Elisa & Marcela
Angels in America
Great Freedom
Firebird
Bedrooms & Hallways
Weekend
I discovered your channel only recently because of Heartstopper and have been watching them at random and out of order. I notice that Josh seems to often get quite a bit emotional at certain coming out and acceptance moments and I hope he might share one day or in the podcast about his own experience - did he have some special hurt in his past that makes him particularly sensitive to the goodness experienced by those who found accepting people in their lives?
16:19 yesss my god, I jumped, and shouted out "yessss"
Is good to remember the story (as in the book) is written by a queer author. A queer cis woman though, not a man. So no totally based on her experiences. I also think the director of the film was a gay man (but in all honestly i’m just 90% sure of that, not 100%).
We should have picked up on that, but yes so important! 🏳️🌈
It was also adapted for screen by a gay screenwriter and director. A lot of the stuff that I see often getting complaints in the movie are movie only, so I always suggest reading the book too. The friends in the book are much better friends, for instance. And the scene at the end with Simon and Graham is handled much differently in the book as well.
Hi there, I have two thoughts on how parents reaction to a child coming out to them. First, I think representation of what kids experience, good and bad, is important. People need to see what happens and understand the effects a parents reaction can have on their children.
Second, my wife and I have a son that’s gay and I don’t think we should be praised for being accepting of his identity. I’m proud that it is not an issue to us but I don’t think anyone should pat themselves on the back for doing what’s right.
I don't think Simon is supposed to represent Every Gay. No one could actually do that accurately anyway. Simon is just one unique gay boy and this is His experience and how He views it. He's also still discovering himself, so he is relying on and rebelling against the stereotypes. And Jennifer Garner killed it❤. I am jaded enough, tho, to not like the ending. Not because they get together in a romantic kissing moment, but because the crowd was so invested in the outcome. En masse, people are just not that interested in someone else's happy ending unless it's celebrity or fictional
I think the issue with love Simon and queer rep in general fall down to one thing. There isn't enough of it. If there was more Queer representation then love Simon being overly optimistic and idealistic wouldn't be an issue as there would be other shows and films depicting the different experiences of queer people. Showing the story's that aren't told here. Because at the end of the day on piece of representation cannot depict the entirety of all different queer experiences someone is always gunna be left out. And that's why we need a shitload more.
Thankyou for coming to my TED talk.
Beautiful Thing- boys! Because who doesn’t like bubble and squeak and Dave Lynn
I watched it for the first time last night. I had to pause several times due to toe-curling 2nd hand embarrassment every time the deputy principal opened his mouth and Martin's pursuit of Abby with very public declarations of admiration and love.
Nobody suffered the negative consequences they should have. Martin should at the very least have been shunned for outing Simon, if not reported to the police for the blackmail. I didn't catch the two boys' names but since they humiliated Simon and Ethan in front of the whole school they should have been made to apologise in front of the whole school, not in the privacy of the deputy principal's office.
I disagree with the idea that Simon's friends should have been more empathetic with his situation when they discovered the way he'd been attempting to emotionally manipulate them. They had every right to feel hurt and angry in the moment. These are 16? 17? year olds. They need time to process their emotions, then hopefully find their way to empathy and forgiveness.
I agree that some of the movie was Hollywood. That house in that neighborhood? The part where all his friends reject me- too, too formulaic. Martin paying the golden ticket? Sorry, but id ask all my friends ti beat the crap out of him. Mom being the loving, caring person? I keep falling back on my mother who was tiny but part pitbull, which is another whole story. She tried to talk me out of it and tried to conclude with, "You're not gay. You're just confused." However, i blew up and yelled at her. For the rest of her life, we were careful to have more innocuous topics like mass murder. She kept waiting for me to come to my senses and settle down with ANY girl.
The thing is, Simon's mom is a psychotherapist, and she would never, ever say that this was a phase. You're right, though. There are mothers who would not be so accepting. But as @kevinnivek2199 points out in a comment above, this is Simon's story, told from Simon's perspective from Simon's lived experience. No one should expect their coming out to mirror Simon's.
Hey guys! (Or should I still say La?) I don't know how to word my thoughts on this film to be honest lol, but I loved hearing yours again. I do think the book handles the situation with Simon's friends better, and when he comes out to Abby, and just most things in general really lol, but I did like the inclusion of Ethan in the film to show a bit of representation of a more stereotypical gay person too. Also as great (and cute) as Nick Robinson is playing Simon I kinda wish he resembled book Simon more accurately as well, but nothing's ever perfect eh lmao. Looking forward to your next video :)
LA! Thank you so much for all your support and comments. We really value your thoughts too. Literally So much to talk about and we could go on all day haha. x
I am really enjoying your vids. I have been an ally since before that was a term, but I forget that my view of LGBT+ representation in media is from the straight perspective and what I find positive may not be exactly the best way because as you said, it is made pallatable for general audiences.
So even at 47, I am finding out I always have more I can learn to be a better ally.
Kids can be mean but we also do them a terrible disservice by segregating by age so they don’t have to help raise up the younger or learn from the older, and simultaneously robbing them of any meaningful adult guidance. Kids need social guidance, period. Schools are just kid warehouses so that adults can be efficiently exploited, designed for control, not individual actualization or growth.
Schools will never be harm free because one exhausted adult cannot properly raise 30 children in an artificial social structure. It’s insanity to expect that to work.
Definitely with Alex on the overall vibe of this movie. I’m sure someone else here will rant about the film vs. book ending and how “for the het” gaze it is. So glad we have better rep than this in other stories. Love you both 🌈✨💕 Tks for the content 😊
The movie was directed by a gay man. Greg Berlanti.
Hi!!! Have you watched "The Christmas Setup"? It's from last year, the main actors are married in real life (awww
I bought the dvd for $5 @ Target on Thanksgiving sale, watched it and was disappointed by it & threw away the dvd in the Garbage can.
If he started off thinking being gay is normal, there wouldn’t really be any plot. Figuring out what he is and how to be okay with it is the whole point. Simon thinking he’s normal other then his gayness is part of the story, standard character building. They get shit on for not showing gay people then get shit on when they do, shit on when it’s too sad then when it’s too happy. As ‘one of them’, try to appreciate it for what it is like your friend there. Not everything has to be a political statement man.
That college scene also took me out of it
Just watched your guys video for the first ep of heartstopper. I LOVE heartstopper so the roasts at first felt harsh but I'm definitely gonna watch the rest of y'all's reaction to it. ANYWAY watching it made me realize I needed to see you guys react to love Simon bc I HATED this movie and I needed to see at least one of you roast it
Edit: hates a strong word. I don't hate that it exists but I hate how it made me feel while watching it, which was mostly back and forth between cringing and annoyed lmao
Dudes, it's a freaking gay fairytale. Why do only straight folks get Frozen and The Little Mermaid? Realistic? Who cares. I dream of a world where parents read this kind of story to their children as they fall asleep, 🥰
Because the vast majorityof people on planet earth are heterosexual and the chances are in the vast majority cases a childs parents are both straight.That cannot be helped that homosexuals are a minority, it's just the way things are and it's not heterosexual peoples fault. Most of us would not be here today if our parents had not been heterosexual. Disney infact has lost a lot of money going woke. Romances between heterosexual couples appeal more to most heterosexual people, just like homosexual romances appeal more to homosexual audiences. There is nothing stopping the LGBT community making these type of movies and even a gay disney fairytale movie though for gay audiences or whoever else wants to see it.
Ok, being American I appreciate your efforts with dressing like what Love Simon passes as the average American high school student at an average American high school. Maybe 5 percent representation here. Lol
I enjoy the flick as a Ferris Bueller gay themed feel good movie. But saying this is great cinema for the gay world well Gods Own Country is great cinema and then some. This movie is snack food .
I wish you guys would review Latter DYs another feel good flick and not as far fetched as Love Simon.
BTW I. Think the actor who plays the dad is hot.
I commented last week that I just found your channel and it has become my late night guilty pleasure.
You both are VERY good at what your doing. So again thank you.
Love your accents btw.
react to Holding The Man ♥️
released in 2015 its an Australian gay movie. met with wide acclaim.based on real life story of two lovers getting diagnosed with AIDS
What I hated about this movie is that the kid that outed him Nothing happened to him I have never seen something so hateful about this kid doing that it was not simon fault he made a fell out of himself Simon was
f???king outed and this kid was still in school the next day he needed to be kicked out of school because Simon could’ve killed him self
You should react to love victor
My feelings on this movie is that is a very palatable (bland) story, on purpose, that has a few very well written/directed/acted that hit me where I live. It got the important bits right, and the rest was designed to make those important bits swallowable by people who don't experience them.
it's not supposed to be a movie to represent gays, it just wants to tell about Simon experience. why everything has to be politically correct?
Girlfriends?!?! Romantic relationships or were you one of the girls & you were friends with many of them.
Love your Rainbow🌈socks by the way
You should check out the TV spinoff love victor it is a lot better than the flim and more diverse I enjoyed love Simon a lot but I do think love victor is better
Thanks Titus! We’ve actually been watching Love, Victor in Disney+ so expect our reaction to that soon :)
Yea, I couldn't empathize wirh Simon. I found his claim on normalcy offensive. Like, who actually gets to live a life where their sexuality is their only struggle? Just too idealized; I'm happy some people get perfect parents, but as someone who was purposefully outed by a sibling & then disowned by parents, this was never gonna be a movie for me. Turned it off during the build up to the ferris wheel scene. Pretty disgusted with the notion he was okay with forcing Blue to out himself in front of everyone else. 😕 I don't hate the character, but since I found him so unrelatable I just couldn't care.
Never seen this film, mainly because I didn't like the fact a straight actor plays the gay main title character of the film.
Gay actors have played straight characters for decades. Why the double standard? Or maybe you believe only straight actors should play straight characters, as well?
So obvious this film was written and made by straight people about what they though "coming out" was like. As usual, the majority of people don't realise that coming out is an individual experience for everybody. I was incredibly lucky (for the time I came out) and the majority of people were incredibly accepting. In 1975, the only role models for gay people were Larry Grayson and John Inman.
Is it obvious? Would you be surprised if I told you the author of the book the film is based on is bisexual, and the director of the film is a gay man?