You can save some more with using just first layer of carbon and replace other layers simply with glass, since this is, obviously, just a cosmetic part.
Thanks for the Video Sam.. (and good to meet you finally in Auburn).. Am just doing my first few things in fiberglass and the one thing that screams out is the amount of flange.. I learned the hard way, bigger is better.. Funny how guys that know what they are doing make this look so easy.. Now back the huge flange.. a video on "mold" design and building? :) I learned some hard lessons there too...
I have a few projects in the pipeline, I could make a mold making video for sure! Be sure to subscribe and see all the new videos as well as others on our channel!
that's amazing!! I just graduated w bachelor's in mechanical eng and i wanna tell you that i've learned few things watching this vid. kinda wanted to see the finished project at end tho
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have 2 questions due to my lack of knoledge. 1. Since you are doing infusion, what is the purpose of the first layer gelcoat? 2. Why polyester resin and not epoxy? Again, these questions are just due to my lack of knoledge since I am learning and doing research currently.
On this particular project we wanted a thick clear coat finish on the outside of the part, we could apply that in the mold first or coat the part after removal to get that thick layer. In this case, we sprayed it into the mold. Polyester or epoxy can be used in this mold, we chose polyester on this one because we were using that polyester gelcoat spray in for the first layer and the polyester gelcoat and polyester resin work well together.
I enjoyed watching your video so much, and I would like to ask you about the FIRST mold you have used to make the carbon fiber shell, is it thermoformed? and which plastic did you use if that's the case?
Thanks for the comment. I am not sponsored by anyone, so I don't normally list links or names. I can tell you that everything was ordered online and most items came from either: US Composites, Composite Envisions, or Fibreglast. Thanks for watching!!
Your video is brilliant...pretty much showing all the steps....a question though...do you think infusion is better than than just laying the parts with the resin and then vacuum them?Also some suggest that you also bake those parts for extra...rigidity....is there any truth to all the above?Thinking of making a guitar this way and hardness is pretty important...thx in advance...
I would suggest epoxy and a post cure. You will need a bit of specialty equipment for the post cure, (oven of some sort) but that should get you a nice hard piece, perfect for a guitar. I love guitars btw. Tag me if you build one!
Looks great! Infusions always look awesome when they come out right. Is there a reason that you used freekote and wax? wouldn't it be fine with just one of those? Thanks.
Freekote is very slick. We use wax so that the pva doesn't bead up on the frekote surface. The frekote is still used because I like the protection it gives to the mold.
@@zachpaish968 Honestly everyone has a way they like to do it. Some say not to do things I do, some use half the stuff I do, some think I do it wrong. What I can tell you is this process may be overkill as far as release and pva and wax and all of that. But, I never have release issues, I never have surface issues on my part. My mold is easy to clean. I've made a ton of parts and many thousands of dollars this way. Try it a few ways. Expect your first couple parts to be trash and dont get discouraged it might take a few trash parts to get the process down. Good luck!
@@kimmelfab Ah thanks for explaining the wax that makes sense. Could you spray just polyurethane paint or automotive paint instead of gelcoat? Or would that bead?
Very Kool!!! I’m thinking of making a gas tank for my motorcycle do you have any suggestions “tips” for this project? This would be my first project with carbon fiber. Thank you!
Hello and thanks for the straightforward Video. I am an amatuer by any standards in this subject but I am an expert builder and racer of radio control Model Yachts. I hope you can answer a few questions for me. It would be very valuable for me, thanks. All questions are regarding your mold prep. What kind of cleaner did you use on the mold? Next, I noticed you used Frekote sealer and 700NC release. I am interested to use these two products as well. Then, I noticed that after you used the Frekote, you then went to the PartAll Wax Release. All Info I have gathered so far does not show this kind of application. I want the best release on my new Hull Mold because I dont want to destroy it first time out. If in your professional experience you have found something that works for you then I too am very interested. Please tell me why you do it this way? I am using just one layer of 5oz spread tow fiber with one or two added layers of .5oz Carbon Veil. The hull has pretty relaxed curves as it is a sailboat hull. Nothing complex. Thanks and can you tell me if you make molds from Plugs. I have a nice precision plug of this hull and may like to have one or two more molds made for it.
I cleaned this mold simply with dawn dish soap. I used the freekote mold release and sealer to protect the mold, but it is so slippery that my pva will actually bead up and separate when sprayed onto the freekote, so I wax the mold to provide a surface that the pva will attach to properly. Depending on exactly how you plan to use your mold, you can skip the step of wax.
Thanks for the Prompt reply. I thought it may have had something to do with the with the PVA, but I wasnt sure. I am planning on using the Resin Infusion process with the MTI Hose already purchased. I then have a curing oven for higher temp post cure. (approx 160 deg.) As long as you have no problems, chemically speaking, using the Freekote and then the PartAll Wax, I may go the same way just to get the additional boundary layer of protection. I really do appreciate your answers,, thanks again.
De los mejores procesos vistos para aprender, muchas gracias por el aporte. Una pregunta ¿que características tiene el spray adhesivo que se aplica a la fibra de carbono? ¿que nivel de adherencia tiene?
We used a very light mist of spray adhesive to hold the layers in place during the vacuum bagging process. The resin dissolves the adhesive during the infusion process.
That will be a kind of stupid question maybe, but vacuum "bag" and this seal around are one time use (single-use)? Or there is any way to use it again?
If you use a foam core inside, do you bag the mat against the gel coat; cure, and then add the core / remaining glass later? Or lay everything in all at once? I'm wondering (if all is laid in at the same time) how the resin flows between the outer layer and the core.
I'd do everything all at one time. I wouldn't expect the first one to come out perfect. All changes in process or materials usually take a test run or two to get right.
Great demonstration! Do you have any tips for an infusion newbie using polyester? I'm suffering with pinholes on the surface. What vac level do you pull, and do you degas the polyester after its been catalysed?
There are actually a few problems using polyester for infusion. It tends to degass continuously under heavy vacuum, so i don't pull "full vacuum". I do actually pull full vacuum at first, let in the resin and once everything is saturated i close the vacuum port and leave open the resin port for just a few seconds. This makes the vacuum level drop slightly and the part a bit more resin rich. Dropping the vacuum a bit will keep the resin from gassing out into the surface of the part as it kicks.
@@kimmelfab thanks for your reply, really appreciate it. I've actually tried a few ways now, what you've mentioned above, and even dropping the infusion to - 20-25inhg to avoid boiling the styrene. I haven't tried degassing the resin before infusing, but I just cannot seem to get a void free finish. Its really frustrating!
@@garyengland5326 maybe switch to a infusion epoxy. I know that doesn't solve the polyester problem, but it might solve your finish problem if that's an option.
@@kimmelfab I've tried crystic 701pa which is a dedicated infusion resin - it produced awful results! I then tried some raa 30 (which is a laminating resin) and got much better results, but still a lot of surface air voids. I've purposely not used a gel coat at all, until I can get decent results. But this is causing print through on my mould surface which is a pain to remove. I'm using honey glaze release wax, I haven't tried a chemical release agent yet
Hi there, great instruction video. But I have hard time understanding why so much carbon fiber layers. This will not be a car part that will be stressed out with various forces. Can you please explain?
@@andrazlogar861 Jesus man do you not understand English? He’s told you and you keep asking the same question. They feel this is the appropriate number of layers. Yes, that much. Period. The end.
I wanted to make the scoop quickly so I could produce this video for a couple people asking questions. The polyester sets up very quickly. Within an hour it can be removed. I generally leave it 6 hours minimum however if using polyester. If we do epoxy I leave it 24 hour minimum.
Great vid of your process. Interesting the use of polyester in lieu of epoxy. How’s your pump going? Polyester contains styrene that can vapourise under vacuum but then can resolidify in your pump
Kimmel Fabrication Studio LLC the styrene can set solid once not under vacuum, so doesn’t matter what the parts are, if not cleaned out it seizes the inside
@@daisensei69 lol yes it does matter what the parts are. If you’re not familiar with the systems he’s talking about that’s fine but don’t try spreading your stupidity.
Are you measuring the quantity of resin you use during infusion based on the weight of carbon fiber you are using or you just keep injecting resin until it reaches on the other side?
You can use the same products, but instead of gelcoat layer you can lightly spray a layer of epoxy, let set to tack and move forward. Similar to a carbon overlay process.
@@kimmelfab You guys helped me out a ton with this answer! I am working on a carbon fiber engine cover project and could not figure out how to apply the first layer of fiber properly. I'll try using the same method as per overlay! Thanks!
What's the advantage of using PVA over Release Wax over 700 NC/FMS? I have used either use PVA and Wax or 700NC/FMS. I've never seen anyone use both. Also, what is the procedure for degassing the polyester resin? When I have degassed polyester resin, it just turns into to foam until I release the vacuum.
When laying up the Carbon, instead of shaping the carbon in the mold by hand, can you prepare it for vacuum and when you "degass" it...will the carbon not take shape of the mold with the vacuum air/bubble check process?
It depends on the complexity of the mold. If you have dry carbon going into a dry mold (no gelcoat) and the mold curvature isnt too complex, you can definitely vaccum the carbon in to place. So yes, you can. It just wouldn't work well with this process because we have a tacky gelcoat layer in the mold first.
@@kimmelfab would there be any pros/cons besides mold complexity doing it this way? I work with carbon and fiberglass for a living. New tips and tricks are always accepted.
Cool video! You only used PVA because you didn't care about the surface quality and are going to paint over it, right? Otherwise you would use wax only?
I used pva because it allows my gelcoat to not bead up on the surface. When the part is pulled from the mold we wet sand and clear coat the parts for durability.
@@kimmelfab Thanks for the reply. If your mold is a perfect surface though, and you don't use PVA, you could avoid the sanding because the part surface would already look good, right? Or is it impossible to get gel coat to work directly on wax?
@@audib8customsubwoofershop830 You can use gelcoat over wax, but wax can transfer to your part, making it difficult to clear. Some companies do not clear coat their parts, but the clear contains UV inhibitors. If a carbon part doesn't have UV inhibitors in the resin or topcoat it will degrade and turn brown over time. We use a resin with UV inhibitors as well as a clear coat.
Hello. What size tip are you using with the 3m gun? And are you reducing the clear gel coat?im looking at Clear Polyester Gelcoat 1 Gallon with Hardener MEKP DDM-9 2oz From composite envisions.
If you don’t mind me asking what brand gel coat are you using for the in mold layer, I have Duratec 904-046 clear high gloss topcoat that I purchased,they say that it can be used also as a in mold clear but I have had nothing but bad results, not saying anything bad about the product as it could possibly be application error.Thanks
FMS+770NC+wax+PVA? Holy overkill Batman! I'd stop at the 770NC even on new molds and haven't stuck a part doing so (I put down 4 coats of FMS then two 90 degree-opposing coats of 770NC on new molds. Subsequent pulls get two 90 degree-opposing coats of 770NC only). I will use PVA over mold plugs because I know I'm going to post-finish the mold anyway. I came up with a way to achieve excellent results spraying PVA: 0.8mm tip, 45psi at the gun 1. Spray on a dust coat. You should just barely see the mist coming out of the gun! When you spray it you have to look really close to see any on the surface. You want as small droplet size as possible with decent coverage (hence the high PSI). 2. Wait 10-15 minutes. 3. Spray a medium flow coat. The surface will look pinholey...don't sweat it...after a few minutes all the PVA will flow together and level out leaving a nice gloss. If it flows together completely immediately after spraying then you have sprayed too much on. 4. Wait 45 minutes. 5. Spray another flow coat on. 6. Wait 45 minutes. Done. Very little post-finishing is needed. A quick polish is usually all it takes. I'm throwing this out there because of the kick ass T-fitting and spiral trick. Why didn't I think of that??? HAHAHA! Try cutting the flow media about 1.5" shy of the vaccum line. This will slow down the flow so you don't end up with much (if any) resin in the line before it goes to the trap. BUT!!!!!!!! Polyester resin with carbon? Dude. Get some good ultra low viscosity epoxy for the final parts. Save the polyester for building molds.
You'll get better final finish and mold service life if you use loctite 720nc and skip the paste wax and pva. The 720nc is very high slip but I've not had pre-release issues with it. Generally I count on a minimum of 75 parts between cleanings of the mold and the best molds I've seen 120 parts. You might want to wet sand out your mold to 2000 and polish it to a mirror finish too, on the video it looks dull. Might just be a trick of the lighting though.
We wet sand each part when removed from the mold and top coat with an automotive clear coat with high UV inhibitors to prevent sun damage, so the mold surface is only finished to 1000.
Why do you you use frekote and wax with pla? Wouldn't you use one or the other. I get using pla with the wax so you don't get wax transfer on the part but wax over FMS and NC770 seems pointless. Just curious on your reasoning.
I use the frekote as a sealer, but the gelcoat tends to bead up when sprayed on it. If you spray pva over frekote it will also bead. I like frekote for its mold protection, but using the other products allows me to be able to spray a nice even finish using gelcoat.
Some have told me in previous comments that the frekote can be buffed away enough to get the gelcoat to not bead up. I've experienced this to be true, but then the part sticks slightly to the mold which I dont want.
No, unfortunately all of the vacuum bagging supplies and infusion tube are discarded each time. This is part of the reason it is so expensive to produce parts this way.
@@kimmelfab thanks for the response. I saw you wasn't sponsored by any manufacturers, would you be will to give your recommendations on your favorite suppliers?
@@johngunn7947 We just make the videos for fun. As you said, I'm not sponsored by anyone. I can suggest that Fibreglast.com has a ton of products, pricing can be a bit high but their customer service and help is excellent. Composite Envisions has great products and decent pricing. US composites has good priced materials for mold making and fiberglass repair at an affordable price. Those would be my 3 recommended suppliers.
You can buy one on Amazon. They are actually not made for gelcoat, but the guns work excellent for spraying gelcoat. The guns are normally used to spray rock chip guard and undercoating on vehicles.
The vacuum bad cannot stretch, so extra bagging material is needed in order for it to suck down into the contour or the mold. The pleats allow extra bagging material to be sealed around the perimeter.
You must add the pleats so that there is enough bagging material to be able to suck down into the mold. Without pleats the bag will not draw the materials down into the mold surface.
Thank you very much for that great video! Although the title made it sound like it would be 10 min in realtime haha. How long did it take? Did you get a little bit of print-through? Or is that just the PLA?
mior sallehuddin if you dont have a degasing chamber you can just use a longer vacuum line and let the air be drawn out after the resin has covered the part and you lock your infusion line. Just be careful if you're not using a resin trap
A vacuum table wouldn't do this exact process. Although similar in the way they work, it wouldn't work quite right for this. We have a vacuum table as well but use it mostly for thermo forming plastics.
I use either polyester or epoxy. This time I used polyester. You aren't seeing air pockets you are seeing PVA peeling off after the part was released from the mold.
Carbon fiber and polyester seems quite odd combination to me. One of the most expensive fibers with the cheapest resin.... Obviously just for cosmetic purposes. If you're going just for ''carbon look'' you could have just first layer of carbon, aditional layers could simply be glass.
I'm guessing that you added black pigment to your resin. Was that a customer special order? It just seems a shame to cover up that beautiful carbon weave that you laid down so meticulously. Also did you use Azox catalyst? If you're really in a hurry and can control your temperature and humidity, it's a real time saver for pulling multiple parts out of a single mold. I made a resin infusion side panel and scoop for my pusher RV back in 2017. I would have saved a ton of time if your video had been available then.
We didnt add any pigment to the resin. On occasion we do, but on this one, I just made the scoop quickly so that we could make the video. Using this catalyst you have to move quickly, but not a problem if everything is in order. I use the frekote products as a sealer and release but we find that the gel coat layer lays better over a pva layer than directly over the frekote. So yes, you do not "need" the wax or pva by any means, it us just a way we have found brings out the surface we are looking to achieve.
Generally speaking, I would say no. I normally wouldn't make just one part because the time and cost to produce the mold outweighs the cost of one part. But, if you can make yourself one and say 4 or 5 more to sell, you got a good thing going.
Our scoops are top coated with a automotive grade clear coat that has UV inhibitors. It should be good as long as a paint job on a car as long as its treated the same. That being said, different climates and regions have much different effects on finishes and materials. We do our best to make them have the most longevity possible.
@@kimmelfab Okay cool. I suppose it would be easy enough to remove and keep in the house out of the cold while its stored in the winter. My garage where I keep the car isn't heated. I got my strut caps from you today, very impressed with them. Really sets off the engine bay. I'd like to talk about doing more pieces for me if it's possible.
Have you ever encountered a bond failure that you think might have been due to contamination from particulates in the shop? I'm sort of a sucker for rules, and one of the things that always stuck out to me in the US Army composite manual is that they prefer to have sanding/grinding take place in a different area than bonding. They also prefer positive air pressure to mitigate dust settling in the bonding area. I've never worked anywhere that employed these types of environmental guidelines. I guess I just wonder if the guy that wrote those specs was being entirely too anal, and I'm falling for it? I'm not prior military or anything, but I've been exposed to their documentation, unfortunately.
If you are making something that is extremely important, an airplane wing or propeller, an indy car part, etc. I'd think you would want to be as careful as possible. The parts we create never see those types of forces or environments, so no worries. I've actually never had a bonding failure while using vacuum infusion to create parts.
Wouldn't "pre - preg carbon fiber" be easier to use in the set up, than none "pre - preg carbon fiber"!!???? It's what a lot of companies use now a days. If you guys do a lot of carbon fiber projects that may be a faster way???
![Polyester VS Epoxy Resin comparison test - carbon / glass. Expedition lifeboat conversion.Ep102 [4K]](/img/n.gif)
Plastic spiral tubes and t fittings, brilliant! I've been speccing parts for a vacuum setup and this saves a bunch of $$$, thank you for sharing.
Exactly. I did a bunch of testing to get away from the overly expensive consumables
You can save some more with using just first layer of carbon and replace other layers simply with glass, since this is, obviously, just a cosmetic part.
Watching the resin flood the fabric was fascinating, very clever system.
Thanks! The resin infusion is such a cool process when it goes as planned!!
@@kimmelfab Near the end of the video, when your removing the bag and peel ply, are you letting it cure under vacuum first?
@@recreationalmobility yes, it must cure under vacuum.
Thank-you for putting in the time and effort to make the video. I remember how almost everything was a big mystery before UA-cam. I'm that old 😋
Thanks for watching. Your comment is greatly appreciated!
Thanks for the Video Sam.. (and good to meet you finally in Auburn).. Am just doing my first few things in fiberglass and the one thing that screams out is the amount of flange.. I learned the hard way, bigger is better.. Funny how guys that know what they are doing make this look so easy.. Now back the huge flange.. a video on "mold" design and building? :) I learned some hard lessons there too...
I have a few projects in the pipeline, I could make a mold making video for sure! Be sure to subscribe and see all the new videos as well as others on our channel!
that's amazing!! I just graduated w bachelor's in mechanical eng and i wanna tell you that i've learned few things watching this vid. kinda wanted to see the finished project at end tho
Check some of them out on our Facebook page or Instagram @kimmelfab
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have 2 questions due to my lack of knoledge.
1. Since you are doing infusion, what is the purpose of the first layer gelcoat?
2. Why polyester resin and not epoxy?
Again, these questions are just due to my lack of knoledge since I am learning and doing research currently.
On this particular project we wanted a thick clear coat finish on the outside of the part, we could apply that in the mold first or coat the part after removal to get that thick layer. In this case, we sprayed it into the mold. Polyester or epoxy can be used in this mold, we chose polyester on this one because we were using that polyester gelcoat spray in for the first layer and the polyester gelcoat and polyester resin work well together.
Wow, that's cool. I should've paid more attention in my plastics class
Thanks!
I enjoyed watching your video so much, and I would like to ask you about the FIRST mold you have used to make the carbon fiber shell, is it thermoformed? and which plastic did you use if that's the case?
The mold is made from fiberglass. We took an original scoop, modified it, and took a mold using fiberglass.
Thanks a lot for the reply. May God help you keep up the good work.
Could you add the list of products thats been used and if posible some links too. Really nice video btw.
Thanks for the comment. I am not sponsored by anyone, so I don't normally list links or names. I can tell you that everything was ordered online and most items came from either: US Composites, Composite Envisions, or Fibreglast. Thanks for watching!!
Your video is brilliant...pretty much showing all the steps....a question though...do you think infusion is better than than just laying the parts with the resin and then vacuum them?Also some suggest that you also bake those parts for extra...rigidity....is there any truth to all the above?Thinking of making a guitar this way and hardness is pretty important...thx in advance...
I would suggest epoxy and a post cure. You will need a bit of specialty equipment for the post cure, (oven of some sort) but that should get you a nice hard piece, perfect for a guitar. I love guitars btw. Tag me if you build one!
@@kimmelfab Will do..thanks for info...
Using a separate tube and bucket for the feed side is very ingenious. What are the bubbles showing on the vacuum side ?
The first portion of resin to be pulled always has some bubbles in it.
Where do you buy your Supplies? What Carbon fiber Cloth did you use?
It all depends on the project what carbon and where I buy it. There are many good places online selling carbon.
cool technique with spiral wrap.
Thanks, it works very well and is inexpensive!
Very proud of tge why you made it as a mechanical engineer, please can you tell me how you made the mold(which material exactly) ??
The mold is made of fiberglass.
@@kimmelfab And how you get this shape using Fiber Glass ?
Looks great! Infusions always look awesome when they come out right. Is there a reason that you used freekote and wax? wouldn't it be fine with just one of those? Thanks.
Freekote is very slick. We use wax so that the pva doesn't bead up on the frekote surface. The frekote is still used because I like the protection it gives to the mold.
@@kimmelfab That makes sense. I appreciate the answer. I'm likely going to use PVA for an infusion soon. Do you have any tips on using it?
@@zachpaish968 Honestly everyone has a way they like to do it. Some say not to do things I do, some use half the stuff I do, some think I do it wrong.
What I can tell you is this process may be overkill as far as release and pva and wax and all of that. But, I never have release issues, I never have surface issues on my part. My mold is easy to clean. I've made a ton of parts and many thousands of dollars this way.
Try it a few ways. Expect your first couple parts to be trash and dont get discouraged it might take a few trash parts to get the process down. Good luck!
@@kimmelfab Ah thanks for explaining the wax that makes sense. Could you spray just polyurethane paint or automotive paint instead of gelcoat? Or would that bead?
@@dejayrezme8617 never tried it, but I imagine the same results.
Very Kool!!! I’m thinking of making a gas tank for my motorcycle do you have any suggestions “tips” for this project? This would be my first project with carbon fiber. Thank you!
Are you planning to copy a tank you have and remake it in carbon or do you want to make a tank from scratch?
@@kimmelfab I want to do something similar, but from scratch ,from what I need to make the mold ( foam , cardboard or something else ) ? Thanks
Why do you use 3 release agents?
Hello and thanks for the straightforward Video. I am an amatuer by any standards in this subject but I am an expert builder and racer of radio control Model Yachts. I hope you can answer a few questions for me. It would be very valuable for me, thanks.
All questions are regarding your mold prep. What kind of cleaner did you use on the mold? Next, I noticed you used Frekote sealer and 700NC release. I am interested to use these two products as well. Then, I noticed that after you used the Frekote, you then went to the PartAll Wax Release. All Info I have gathered so far does not show this kind of application. I want the best release on my new Hull Mold because I dont want to destroy it first time out. If in your professional experience you have found something that works for you then I too am very interested. Please tell me why you do it this way?
I am using just one layer of 5oz spread tow fiber with one or two added layers of .5oz Carbon Veil. The hull has pretty relaxed curves as it is a sailboat hull. Nothing complex.
Thanks and can you tell me if you make molds from Plugs. I have a nice precision plug of this hull and may like to have one or two more molds made for it.
I cleaned this mold simply with dawn dish soap. I used the freekote mold release and sealer to protect the mold, but it is so slippery that my pva will actually bead up and separate when sprayed onto the freekote, so I wax the mold to provide a surface that the pva will attach to properly. Depending on exactly how you plan to use your mold, you can skip the step of wax.
We can make molds from plugs, we do it every day.
Thanks for the Prompt reply. I thought it may have had something to do with the with the PVA, but I wasnt sure. I am planning on using the Resin Infusion process with the MTI Hose already purchased. I then have a curing oven for higher temp post cure. (approx 160 deg.) As long as you have no problems, chemically speaking, using the Freekote and then the PartAll Wax, I may go the same way just to get the additional boundary layer of protection. I really do appreciate your answers,, thanks again.
@@kimmelfab Why do you need to use wax + PVA when you use Freekote? It works great just by itself.
No need to answer. I read it down below.
De los mejores procesos vistos para aprender, muchas gracias por el aporte.
Una pregunta ¿que características tiene el spray adhesivo que se aplica a la fibra de carbono? ¿que nivel de adherencia tiene?
We used a very light mist of spray adhesive to hold the layers in place during the vacuum bagging process. The resin dissolves the adhesive during the infusion process.
GREAT Video! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!!
That will be a kind of stupid question maybe, but vacuum "bag" and this seal around are one time use (single-use)? Or there is any way to use it again?
The glue does not inhibit saturation of the cloth? I once used ca glue and caught crap LOL!1
If you use a foam core inside, do you bag the mat against the gel coat; cure, and then add the core / remaining glass later? Or lay everything in all at once? I'm wondering (if all is laid in at the same time) how the resin flows between the outer layer and the core.
I'd do everything all at one time. I wouldn't expect the first one to come out perfect. All changes in process or materials usually take a test run or two to get right.
@@kimmelfab Thank you!
Hi what brand gelcoat did you use?
Wow. The best video, that really shares. Thank you
Thanks for watching!
Great demonstration!
Do you have any tips for an infusion newbie using polyester? I'm suffering with pinholes on the surface. What vac level do you pull, and do you degas the polyester after its been catalysed?
There are actually a few problems using polyester for infusion. It tends to degass continuously under heavy vacuum, so i don't pull "full vacuum".
I do actually pull full vacuum at first, let in the resin and once everything is saturated i close the vacuum port and leave open the resin port for just a few seconds. This makes the vacuum level drop slightly and the part a bit more resin rich. Dropping the vacuum a bit will keep the resin from gassing out into the surface of the part as it kicks.
@@kimmelfab thanks for your reply, really appreciate it. I've actually tried a few ways now, what you've mentioned above, and even dropping the infusion to - 20-25inhg to avoid boiling the styrene. I haven't tried degassing the resin before infusing, but I just cannot seem to get a void free finish. Its really frustrating!
@@garyengland5326 maybe switch to a infusion epoxy. I know that doesn't solve the polyester problem, but it might solve your finish problem if that's an option.
@@garyengland5326 what brand poly are you using?
@@kimmelfab I've tried crystic 701pa which is a dedicated infusion resin - it produced awful results! I then tried some raa 30 (which is a laminating resin) and got much better results, but still a lot of surface air voids. I've purposely not used a gel coat at all, until I can get decent results. But this is causing print through on my mould surface which is a pain to remove. I'm using honey glaze release wax, I haven't tried a chemical release agent yet
Hi there, great instruction video. But I have hard time understanding why so much carbon fiber layers. This will not be a car part that will be stressed out with various forces. Can you please explain?
I feel this is an appropriate number of layers for a hood scoop as it does get stress from wind at high speeds.
Kimmel Fabrication Studio LLC it does, but that much?
@@andrazlogar861 Jesus man do you not understand English? He’s told you and you keep asking the same question. They feel this is the appropriate number of layers. Yes, that much. Period. The end.
Nice. Any reason why you used polyester and not epoxy resin?
I wanted to make the scoop quickly so I could produce this video for a couple people asking questions. The polyester sets up very quickly. Within an hour it can be removed. I generally leave it 6 hours minimum however if using polyester. If we do epoxy I leave it 24 hour minimum.
Got it.
Got it.
Great vid of your process. Interesting the use of polyester in lieu of epoxy. How’s your pump going? Polyester contains styrene that can vapourise under vacuum but then can resolidify in your pump
It can cause damage to some pumps, but ours has special internal parts that are not affected.
Kimmel Fabrication Studio LLC the styrene can set solid once not under vacuum, so doesn’t matter what the parts are, if not cleaned out it seizes the inside
@@daisensei69 ok
@@daisensei69 lol yes it does matter what the parts are. If you’re not familiar with the systems he’s talking about that’s fine but don’t try spreading your stupidity.
@@slimthugga34 ???
Are you measuring the quantity of resin you use during infusion based on the weight of carbon fiber you are using or you just keep injecting resin until it reaches on the other side?
Both. I always make sure to have extra resin at the end, just in case it takes more than I anticipated.
What in-mold layer do you use incase of infusing with epoxy?
You can use the same products, but instead of gelcoat layer you can lightly spray a layer of epoxy, let set to tack and move forward. Similar to a carbon overlay process.
@@kimmelfab You guys helped me out a ton with this answer! I am working on a carbon fiber engine cover project and could not figure out how to apply the first layer of fiber properly. I'll try using the same method as per overlay! Thanks!
New subscriber, great video, very cool process thanks for posting
Thanks for watching! Be sure to follow our channel, we will be releasing a lot more how to and build videos soon!
Very cool, what material is the orange mold made from?
It it tooling gelcoat, fiberglass and polyester resing.
Awesome Video. The Polyester Resin you are using is Clear? Are you using Resin or Clear Gelcoat for First Coat?
Clear gel coat on this one.
What's the advantage of using PVA over Release Wax over 700 NC/FMS? I have used either use PVA and Wax or 700NC/FMS. I've never seen anyone use both. Also, what is the procedure for degassing the polyester resin? When I have degassed polyester resin, it just turns into to foam until I release the vacuum.
Right, when a permanent sealer is applied, Frekote is all it takes. Nasty but terribly efficient stuff.
When laying up the Carbon, instead of shaping the carbon in the mold by hand, can you prepare it for vacuum and when you "degass" it...will the carbon not take shape of the mold with the vacuum air/bubble check process?
It depends on the complexity of the mold. If you have dry carbon going into a dry mold (no gelcoat) and the mold curvature isnt too complex, you can definitely vaccum the carbon in to place.
So yes, you can. It just wouldn't work well with this process because we have a tacky gelcoat layer in the mold first.
@@kimmelfab would there be any pros/cons besides mold complexity doing it this way? I work with carbon and fiberglass for a living. New tips and tricks are always accepted.
Which Sprayguns do you use?
For PVA and the gelcoat😊?
The pva gun is a standard spray gun with a 1.4 tip. The gelcoat is a pressurized cup gun made by 3M called Accuspray.
Thank you
Cool video! You only used PVA because you didn't care about the surface quality and are going to paint over it, right? Otherwise you would use wax only?
I used pva because it allows my gelcoat to not bead up on the surface. When the part is pulled from the mold we wet sand and clear coat the parts for durability.
@@kimmelfab Thanks for the reply. If your mold is a perfect surface though, and you don't use PVA, you could avoid the sanding because the part surface would already look good, right? Or is it impossible to get gel coat to work directly on wax?
@@audib8customsubwoofershop830 You can use gelcoat over wax, but wax can transfer to your part, making it difficult to clear.
Some companies do not clear coat their parts, but the clear contains UV inhibitors. If a carbon part doesn't have UV inhibitors in the resin or topcoat it will degrade and turn brown over time. We use a resin with UV inhibitors as well as a clear coat.
Awesome video
How we can get extra glow or matt on finishing the carbon fiber?
If you are wanting a thick glossy topcoat you will either need an in mold coating or you will need to add more resin as a topcoat later.
@@kimmelfab ok thankyou
What kind of gel base coat do you recommend?
Clear gel with duratec
Hello. What size tip are you using with the 3m gun? And are you reducing the clear gel coat?im looking at Clear Polyester Gelcoat 1 Gallon with Hardener MEKP DDM-9 2oz From composite envisions.
2.2 I believe.
I want to know how
If you don’t mind me asking what brand gel coat are you using for the in mold layer, I have Duratec 904-046 clear high gloss topcoat that I purchased,they say that it can be used also as a in mold clear but I have had nothing but bad results, not saying anything bad about the product as it could possibly be application error.Thanks
I have used Duratec also with mixed results. In this video I used clear gelcoat from Fibreglast.com
🙏 thank you sir ,love your work very much appreciated
@@tarikadams8271 I appreciate it. Follow our channel. We will be releasing more videos soon.
Subscribed
Sehr gut
FMS+770NC+wax+PVA? Holy overkill Batman! I'd stop at the 770NC even on new molds and haven't stuck a part doing so (I put down 4 coats of FMS then two 90 degree-opposing coats of 770NC on new molds. Subsequent pulls get two 90 degree-opposing coats of 770NC only). I will use PVA over mold plugs because I know I'm going to post-finish the mold anyway. I came up with a way to achieve excellent results spraying PVA:
0.8mm tip, 45psi at the gun
1. Spray on a dust coat. You should just barely see the mist coming out of the gun! When you spray it you have to look really close to see any on the surface. You want as small droplet size as possible with decent coverage (hence the high PSI).
2. Wait 10-15 minutes.
3. Spray a medium flow coat. The surface will look pinholey...don't sweat it...after a few minutes all the PVA will flow together and level out leaving a nice gloss. If it flows together completely immediately after spraying then you have sprayed too much on.
4. Wait 45 minutes.
5. Spray another flow coat on.
6. Wait 45 minutes. Done.
Very little post-finishing is needed. A quick polish is usually all it takes.
I'm throwing this out there because of the kick ass T-fitting and spiral trick. Why didn't I think of that??? HAHAHA!
Try cutting the flow media about 1.5" shy of the vaccum line. This will slow down the flow so you don't end up with much (if any) resin in the line before it goes to the trap.
BUT!!!!!!!! Polyester resin with carbon? Dude. Get some good ultra low viscosity epoxy for the final parts. Save the polyester for building molds.
What's the gelcoat layer for? In mold clear? Or just for tacking the first layer of cloth?
It's both an in mold clear and a tack layer. More importantly a tack layer.
You'll get better final finish and mold service life if you use loctite 720nc and skip the paste wax and pva. The 720nc is very high slip but I've not had pre-release issues with it. Generally I count on a minimum of 75 parts between cleanings of the mold and the best molds I've seen 120 parts. You might want to wet sand out your mold to 2000 and polish it to a mirror finish too, on the video it looks dull. Might just be a trick of the lighting though.
We wet sand each part when removed from the mold and top coat with an automotive clear coat with high UV inhibitors to prevent sun damage, so the mold surface is only finished to 1000.
We do use loctite 720nc in some of our other molds. I appreciate the input! Thanks!
@@kimmelfab all of our parts are base/clear finished. And we cycle our molds 2-3 times daily. Likely a little different production demands.
Why do you you use frekote and wax with pla? Wouldn't you use one or the other. I get using pla with the wax so you don't get wax transfer on the part but wax over FMS and NC770 seems pointless. Just curious on your reasoning.
I use the frekote as a sealer, but the gelcoat tends to bead up when sprayed on it. If you spray pva over frekote it will also bead. I like frekote for its mold protection, but using the other products allows me to be able to spray a nice even finish using gelcoat.
Some have told me in previous comments that the frekote can be buffed away enough to get the gelcoat to not bead up. I've experienced this to be true, but then the part sticks slightly to the mold which I dont want.
Plz upload the making of the mold..
Please tell me what kind of gelcoat gun model?
It's not actually a gelcoat gun. It's a 3M Accuspray Pressurized Cup Gun.
But it works great for gelcoat!
@@kimmelfab thanks!)
Thks for the speed version..
Thanks for watching. Dont forget to subscribe, we have a lot more good stuff coming!
This maybe a dumb question but is the infusion tube reusable?
No, unfortunately all of the vacuum bagging supplies and infusion tube are discarded each time. This is part of the reason it is so expensive to produce parts this way.
@@kimmelfab thanks for the response. I saw you wasn't sponsored by any manufacturers, would you be will to give your recommendations on your favorite suppliers?
@@johngunn7947 We just make the videos for fun. As you said, I'm not sponsored by anyone. I can suggest that Fibreglast.com has a ton of products, pricing can be a bit high but their customer service and help is excellent. Composite Envisions has great products and decent pricing. US composites has good priced materials for mold making and fiberglass repair at an affordable price. Those would be my 3 recommended suppliers.
@@kimmelfab thank you very much, and keep up the killer work!
What type of Carbon Fiber did you use...3k or 6k?
3k
Nice video guys!!!
Thanks!
hello wanted to ask where did they get this gun Gel Coat ?
You can buy one on Amazon. They are actually not made for gelcoat, but the guns work excellent for spraying gelcoat. The guns are normally used to spray rock chip guard and undercoating on vehicles.
@@kimmelfab I thought so that a paint gun for varnish, thanks for the answer ... And you will not have a link
I'm from Indonesia, I want to learn how to make fiberglass crafts
Where do you get the carbon fiber sheets?
Depends on what carbon I'm using. I shop at a few different places online. US Composites, Fibreglast, Composite Envisions.
Great Job Sam, very impressed with your work buddy. Cheers Ross
Thank you!
What an inspiring video, just wonder what is the title of the song used as background music on this video?
why do you make pleats on the border? i can't figure out =(
The vacuum bad cannot stretch, so extra bagging material is needed in order for it to suck down into the contour or the mold. The pleats allow extra bagging material to be sealed around the perimeter.
@@kimmelfab i never thought about that! Thanks mate!
How many the layers?
Depends on the exact piece. Usually between 4 and 6.
Why do pleats tape??
You must add the pleats so that there is enough bagging material to be able to suck down into the mold. Without pleats the bag will not draw the materials down into the mold surface.
@@kimmelfab thanks you very much
Thank you very much for that great video! Although the title made it sound like it would be 10 min in realtime haha. How long did it take?
Did you get a little bit of print-through? Or is that just the PLA?
what is degass resin?
Degassing the resin removes gas and air bubbles trapped inside.
mior sallehuddin if you dont have a degasing chamber you can just use a longer vacuum line and let the air be drawn out after the resin has covered the part and you lock your infusion line. Just be careful if you're not using a resin trap
Hello my friend I work with Fiber Glass and I want to learn from you carbon fiber casting Do you allow me to come to you and work with you
Sorry, we do not currently offer that service, but if you have questions, feel free to as us! Thanks!!
I will do that and I am grateful to you for your answer and assistance. Thank you
And there you have it, indestructible carbon fiber scoop that has more carbon fiber than the whole hood! Haha
Look like the beginning to a darth Vader helmet.
I never thought about that until the first person said it! It does!
thanks for the video but i feel that you could have given some extra running commentary instead of the visuals with back round music
Seems to be an expensive way of doing it...when you can get a vacuum table...for fairly inexpensive cost...
A vacuum table wouldn't do this exact process. Although similar in the way they work, it wouldn't work quite right for this. We have a vacuum table as well but use it mostly for thermo forming plastics.
Why polyester and not epoxy? And I see some airpockets at the edge.
I use either polyester or epoxy. This time I used polyester. You aren't seeing air pockets you are seeing PVA peeling off after the part was released from the mold.
All the using items name send
I use a variety of products. The common names are listed in the video.
Carbon fiber and polyester seems quite odd combination to me. One of the most expensive fibers with the cheapest resin.... Obviously just for cosmetic purposes. If you're going just for ''carbon look'' you could have just first layer of carbon, aditional layers could simply be glass.
I'm guessing that you added black pigment to your resin. Was that a customer special order? It just seems a shame to cover up that beautiful carbon weave that you laid down so meticulously. Also did you use Azox catalyst? If you're really in a hurry and can control your temperature and humidity, it's a real time saver for pulling multiple parts out of a single mold. I made a resin infusion side panel and scoop for my pusher RV back in 2017. I would have saved a ton of time if your video had been available then.
We didnt add any pigment to the resin. On occasion we do, but on this one, I just made the scoop quickly so that we could make the video. Using this catalyst you have to move quickly, but not a problem if everything is in order. I use the frekote products as a sealer and release but we find that the gel coat layer lays better over a pva layer than directly over the frekote. So yes, you do not "need" the wax or pva by any means, it us just a way we have found brings out the surface we are looking to achieve.
is it cheaper to do it yourself rather then buying carbon fiber parts
Depends on many factors.
Generally speaking, I would say no. I normally wouldn't make just one part because the time and cost to produce the mold outweighs the cost of one part. But, if you can make yourself one and say 4 or 5 more to sell, you got a good thing going.
Freekote, Wax, PVA... Not enough release agents
Matter of opinion I suppose.
@@kimmelfab Enough 1 wax of this company. I would recommend a yellow tin, great wax. PVA and frekote are superfluous) imho
Okay now I see why your scoops are 600 bucks. That's a lot of labor...wow.
How well do they hold up? Say after 5 years on a car that's winter stored?
Our scoops are top coated with a automotive grade clear coat that has UV inhibitors. It should be good as long as a paint job on a car as long as its treated the same. That being said, different climates and regions have much different effects on finishes and materials. We do our best to make them have the most longevity possible.
@@kimmelfab Okay cool. I suppose it would be easy enough to remove and keep in the house out of the cold while its stored in the winter. My garage where I keep the car isn't heated.
I got my strut caps from you today, very impressed with them. Really sets off the engine bay.
I'd like to talk about doing more pieces for me if it's possible.
Have you ever encountered a bond failure that you think might have been due to contamination from particulates in the shop? I'm sort of a sucker for rules, and one of the things that always stuck out to me in the US Army composite manual is that they prefer to have sanding/grinding take place in a different area than bonding. They also prefer positive air pressure to mitigate dust settling in the bonding area. I've never worked anywhere that employed these types of environmental guidelines.
I guess I just wonder if the guy that wrote those specs was being entirely too anal, and I'm falling for it? I'm not prior military or anything, but I've been exposed to their documentation, unfortunately.
If you are making something that is extremely important, an airplane wing or propeller, an indy car part, etc. I'd think you would want to be as careful as possible. The parts we create never see those types of forces or environments, so no worries. I've actually never had a bonding failure while using vacuum infusion to create parts.
mavcoat, not frekote.
Um right
I'm lost and don't know what's going on. With spa music.
seriously? frekote and then partall and pva? you know these products work just fine on their own right?
I am aware of what each product does.
Wouldn't "pre - preg carbon fiber" be easier to use in the set up, than none "pre - preg carbon fiber"!!???? It's what a lot of companies use now a days. If you guys do a lot of carbon fiber projects that may be a faster way???
Yes, but that requires a large oven for parts this size.
it was so fast for me :/
Faky no no
What does that even mean?
PVA is for rookies!!!!
What the the can of spray mid way through the first and second layers of CF?
A special spray adhesive for composites