When 2 of the biggest tech UA-camrs out there come out and state that the MOBO manufacturers they've talked to are all saying this platform is a fucking mess, you know you've fucked up.
You really don't know anything about the Intel Computex fiasco do you. Watch Linus' video for more and then just go down the list of hardware UA-camrs and watch their vids as well.
Wait... so basically AMD CPUs are manufactured independently and then added onto the infinity fabric, while the Intel ones are manufactured in a block, so if one fails that's it. Therefore using AMD's process, the cost of production scales linearly with cores, while Intel's price scales exponentially. So even if AMD cores are slower than Intel's, they can offer more cores at a fraction of the cost. Smart.
I'd been wondering for years why they couldn't do this (with GPUs though, not CPUs) - why they couldn't make something like the 7990 show up as one GPU instead of two... Now I know... They were working on it :p
This is why AMD's infinity fabric is true innovation. They break the standard way of doing things and create a new way that has way higher profits, lower failed dies, and can scale to meet those high demands. It's the magic sauce. AND YOU WOULD THINK A $180 Billion Corporation would come up with it first, BUT NAH.
Not just if one 'fails', they can match silicon with like silicon. With intels method, you have, say, 15 cores that can run at 3.2ghz while 9 can only run at 2.8ghz, tough titties the entire CPU now runs at 2.8ghz unless you want to accept a massive loss and sell a 14 core 3.2ghz CPU. With AMD, that never happens. They build 10x 8-core clusters/complexes, 3x of them run at 3.2ghz, 4x of them at 3.1ghz wile the last 3 run at 2.8ghz. Take the 3x that run at 3.2ghz and build a 24 core, take 4x to make a 32 core at 3.1ghz and selectively disable cores on the last 3 to make a 3ghz 20 core. AMD can use so much more of what they end up with it's incredible. They could build a 24 core CPU running at the same clock speeds of intels best xeon out of their literal scraps. Take the shit clusters, build a 4x cluster CPU and disable 8 of the hotter cores, and then sell it for whatever they want because those were going to the bin otherwise.
Sponsoring Anita Sarkeesian, using shit TIM on their CPU dies, telling 7700K owners not to overclock and announcing a cashgrab, undeveloped and totally overpriced X series of CPUs
Vega will also be using infinity fabric. If I'm not mistaken, the successor to Vega (Navi) ought to be a scalable GPU architecture, using the same trick as Ryzen CPUs are using now.
Gerhard Kiels I would really love to understand how the infinity fabric works because it honestly seems too good to be true. "Infinitely" scaleble architecture is a game changer for sure.
Infinity Fabric is just genius. It's 1000x easier to manufacture 4x8-core dies than a 32 core die like what Intel was trying to do with their highest-end Xeons. This was the best move from AMD and it's going to pay out in a big way.
It is bigger than just the CPU. Rumours has it that Navi (Vega replacement for 2019) will also be build like this. Imagine huge GPU's with excellent yields and AMD undercutting Nvidia, while matching in performance, and making huge per unit profits too.
Don't be a fanboy. At least not in what it has meant to be. Be a skeptical fan who tries to not get hyped for things that company does. Allows for much more rational discussion! This may be you already, just fanboy has come to mean overly zealous and close minded in many (most?) cases.
Finally people realize this. And sooner or later, when AMD gets the marketshare back, and starts making bigger profits, we'll see an improvement in the graphics department too. It may be a different group, but same mother company. More money for GPUs=better GPUs, and therefore, more balance in the GPU market. Great.
AMD is and has remain Competitive in the GPU Market. What has always hurt them in terms of Profitability is ... well put simply Branding. NVIDIA has always had better Brand Awareness and Image. It's arguable if said image is actually warranted, and frankly not something I'd care to get into. Now I've been trying to explain as far as VEGA is concerned, that the silicon is far more capable than what it appears to be at present... and this isn't due to Drivers, Support, etc. Rather it's due to AMDs own approach, as it doesn't benefit them to decimate their Competition. As innovations from NVIDIA are in essence "Free" Technology Development, especially when you consider that both Companies use similar Fabrication Sources. What AMD are doing, is in essence forcing NVIDIA away from Proprietary Practises into Open Standards; by essentially making it easier for the Market as a whole to support Open Standards with much more rapid development and customisation. This in turn reduces the possible "Optimisation" approaches that NVIDIA are employing with their Hardware. It's in essence quite a smart move... as it's like embarking on a full-scale attack on all sides, not to gain ground as a concerted plan, but instead to look to see where your opponent choses to fall back and protect the most. It ends up saying more about what they're doing, where before you would be essentially guessing at how they were holding any advantage; then you can focus on either circumventing or creating a direct response to such. Polaris was exactly that. It's why they didn't need to attack the "High End", but rather observe how NVIDIA responded within the Low-to-Mid Range. This spoke volumes louder than trying to compete against their Fully Realised versions of said Architecture... and also where they're most vulnerable.
Let me be clear. I have nothing against Linus or Jay, as I don't know either of them personally. I'm just saying their response to X299 was way more emotional then it needed to be.
I won't name the other reviewers either, but they very clearly are silly and even post videos that are mostly or completely there for humor and/or to stir up emotions. Jim here tells it straight all the time and breaks it down by the numbers. He produces less videos because there's no filler and it's all logical and backed by the numbers in black and white. It takes more work and it's better quality.
Well, Linus and Jayz2c at least address the issue. Unlike old giants like anandtech and tom's hardware which doesn't seem to have really grasped what's going on? Like Tom's current list of best CPUs for the money being a pure Intel line up. I discussed the very issue on inter-core connect the other day with an avid Intel fanboi and he was going on and on about how Intel took the Xeon inter-core connect and revised it for a lower core count for the -x series. But why do that? Why revise it if it works? Was it too expensive? too inefficient? Maybe it just wasn't a good design in the first place then? And remember Intel now has to scale it back up again if they as they've promised are going to develop an 18 core -x series CPU. I have no doubt that they didn't even consider starting the design work for above 12 core versions before it was obvious that Threadripper was going to beat all they were planning to offer originally. The Zen architecture is actually just the culmination of something AMD has been working on for years. Scalability. Initially they tried it in GPUs where they basically said, it's fine not to have the fastest as long as we can put more GPUs on the card or connect several cards to get the performance up at the same cost. It didn't work well in the GPU space due to scalability just not being there. So back to the drawing board. Or rather, they tossed the idea away for a couple of year until some brilliant mind decided to try it out on CPUs instead.
Yeah this infinity fabric really is the thing. When intel finally puts their 18 core out, Amd just needs to ad another chip on top and say: look we have a 26 core now for you!
I just can't understand why you don't have more subscribers. Honestly I can't. Every time you upload, you give clear, well researched information. You're far and away my go-to guy as far as tech videos. Keep it up!
BEcause he does not have clickbait thumbs nails and does not serve the lowest common denominator. People who are actually interested in the market and can understand what is going on come here.
to be fair, both him and nerdsgam are actually really detailed. I can see my little cousin seeing a video on laptops from Linus or the new computer from Jay to the old spice guy. I cant see him watching a 20-30 min, three part series on AMD's master plan...
Ali I agree. It takes a certain type of person to be able to just listen to content like this. The type of person that isn't content with things just being glossed over and wants a detailed analysis. I think we're the minority unfortunately.
If that's the case, I'm glad I'm in that minority. :D I love this kind of content, I think it takes someone with a real passion for it to both make it and watch it.
GameNGrindTV not really, Intel knew they we're gonna get bitchslapped the moment AMD annouced infinity fabric. It's been a continuous panic @ Intel hq since December, an we're now seeing the result
Ok, so, AMD's lack of budget forced them to innovate, so do the very best with the little they have, and as a result, design a CPU more efficient, cheaper to produce in mass, and with the possibility to even use the faulty ones too to sell, and as a result, be able to easily produce CPUs with as much cores as they want with Infinity fabric, wow, Intel with its vast budget got lazy and stagnant, because they could afford to create actual blocks with a lot of cores inside, exponentially increasing the cost, and thus the cost are charged to the public, wow, ok now I understand, so Intel, you are very but very FUCKEDD, you got shagged from behind with your pants down Intel.
It is a nice catch phrase. Like it's a greeting but I think Howitzers everytime I hear it and his voice and accent snap you into AWW YEA TECH NEWS time.
I love mimicking accents, and his presentations really help me nail doon Scottish. One thing is certain: If you learned what you know from 'Scotty' on Star Trek, you're doing it wrong. :D
+AdoredTV, think i'm just going to replace my 4670K with some secondhand 4770K and wait for Ryzen to mature. Or come out on ITX platform -_-. It's just that I mainly use it for gaming, and right now the 1600X isn't that impressive compared to an overclocked i5. It will in time, no doubt. Didn't understand the comment that noone playing at 1080p wants these CPU's though. Getting high fps now requires an i7, and high refresh monitors are making headway.
lol i want to see that same chip at 5ghz with 18 cores.... im pretty sure threadripper can hit 4ghz... hell i want to see that i9 hit 4ghz.... probably on 1 core Lul and the rest 2.9ghz
The reason Intel is at 5GHz while AMD is at 4GHz is due to what I said at the end - GF's 14nm process is an exact copy of Samsung's which was built for mobile phones, ie low power. It's been tweaked a little but we'll see better clocks with Zen next year and 14nm+.
I really love what Lisa's been doing for AMD. She literally walked in with cleats, and stomped on all Intel employees dicks. 3 months ago I was back and fourth with 600$ cash (Canadian) trying to decide on an i5 7600k upgrade, or R5 1600. Glad I went with that R5.
I think Infinity Fabric is probably the smartest CPU technology developed within the last decade or more. This is the big game changer here, because they only need one manufacturing process/line to develop every chip they make. That is incredibly efficient. The fact that they can use almost every chip they make, even if flawed, without wasting resources...that's huge.
9:39 For anyone wondering, that's an 18-core CPU. The two "cores" that look different are the memory controllers. Right now, Intel has three main dies for non-desktop CPU's - LCC, HCC, and XCC. LCC dies have 10 cores, HCC dies (pictured in the video) have 18, and XCC have 28. These dies are where HEDT and Xeon processors come from. That's why going from 10 cores to 12 cores is non-trivial for Intel HEDT processors - they have to jump from the LCC die to the HCC die, which is both more expensive overall due to the lower yields, and also cuts more heavily into Xeon profits when used for non-Xeon products.
That is a clever design! 2017 is the year where AMD gets off the ropes and lands some serious body blows to Intel and Nvidia... Deep down we ALL know that both Intel and Nvidia have the size, and muscle to stomp AMD down again in 2018... but the true winners will be the consumer who will get better tech at better price. and for that AMD deserves all the respect..
Intel is going to need to do some serious restructuring or sell their chips at a loss to compete. I hope they come up with something as letting one company own a majority of the marketshare is never a good idea. It's not good that intel did it and it won't be good if AMD does it.
Having only 28 pcie lanes on the 8 and 6 core cpus is absolutely stupid. Many people wanting the HEDT platform are looking for the ability for many pcie devices. The six core cpus used to have 40 lanes...
I know I keep saying this but I still have to wonder if AMD will shock us by releasing a dual Vega chip that is using infinity fabric so runs as 1 GPU. If it does Nvidia might be in the same boat as intel. I doubt it will happen till Navi but I wont be shocked.. EDIT: I guess I should just try to remember that AMD doesn't generally sandbag though I guess they KIND of did with Ryzen though i think it was unintentional :)
Curious Wars That's what I've been thinking too. Navi is supposed to be largely based off Vega, but on a 7nm process. Should be very efficient, and thus it would be perfect for a multi GPU card. Imagine anywhere from 2-4 GPUs on one card. That would be insanity, and is theoretically possible.
I am going to upgrade my i5 3450 with a Ryzen 7 1700. Intel's prices are ridicolous, AMD is providing the same or more performance for the same / half the price.
MaGNaCET33 I'm currently using a R7 1700 w/ GTX 1080 and I am in love. 3dmark benchmark score was 7,260 www.3dmark.com/3dm/20463212 Reason its at 3.5 is because of Game Boost in BIOS - not OCed at all. Ram is capable of 3200 but its at 2133 & tbh OCing ram doesn't give enough of a performance boost. You will love your R7.
Holy bollox! You're in your ace when you can narrate this kind of video where some underdog seems to have an uppercut gathering speed that the receiver is not prepared for at all. This and the Master Plan pt. 2 video, are just fantastic to watch. I get butterflies watching a video mostly about clock speed, die sizes and expensive enterprise tech. How the hell do you do it? You're really nailing this style of video. Keep up the good work!
Not gonna lie, the title made me giggle a bit. :P Loving the Ryzen 1700 by the way, a very worthy upgrade from my very old, and pretty damn good i5 750. You know, that i5 where you could still overclock without paying a premium, and could get the CPU for a reasonable price. I only paid €150 for it. ;)
I have that same CPU myself, upgraded from an i5-4670K. nothing but pure awesome from the Ryzen CPU. had a little trouble screwing the stock cooler down but done it in the end Only upgrade I need to do now is replace my MSI GTX960 2GB with an MSI or Sapphire RX580 8GB and then no more insufficient VRAM problems again alongside some new SSD's and HDD's.
Same. The stock cooler was a tad annoying, but perfectly doable. The first time around I had issues with the backplate and ended up tiding one screw to much, and one to little so the cooler was offset. Second time around everything worked out. It had been quite a few years. :P Also, I just love that stock cooler. Overclocked my 1700 tot 3,5ghz right now with 1,26v. There is probably more in it, 3,6ghz or 3,7ghz. Don't really care beyond that. I don't even hear the stock cooler right now unless I fire up Prime 95. In the end it even is a downvolt because my 1700 would peek go way beyond 1,3v at stocks speeds. :P Also, MSI seems to have really screwed up there RX580 cooler. RX480 was one of the better, now not so much. Defiantly pick up a Sapphire Nitro+ if you can. That is the best RX580 out there. Ordered one myself because my 5 year old 7950 is done, both in terms of performance and it is dying slowly.
Exactly my problem with installing the stock cooler. :D Got there in the end though. the stock cooler apparantly will support cooling the 1700 up to 3.9GHz if you can get it up there. mines sitting at a nice 3.2GHz and it's faster than my old i5, considering the 4670K is clocked at 3.4GHz stock/base, not to mention my 1700 is just at 3.2Ghz purely because it's fine with cooling. The stock cooler AMD has for their Ryzen line, is FAR SUPERIOR to any intel has made for their CPU's, when they bundled them with the CPU's. I am leaning more toward the Sapphire card for the RX580, simply because the backplate on it looks nice. but the cooler itself on the MSI version looks aggressive, and is practically the same in looks to my 960. Only difference being, more VRAM and AMD instead of Nvidia.
Ryzen is a bit of an oddball with overclocking. Pretty much every Ryzen CPU will go to 3,7ghz without much issue. After that point the voltage required goes up very fast. At the same time, the stock cooler seems to be good until around 3,7ghz to. After that, it starts struggling a bit. That is why I intend to stick to 3,7ghz as maximum. It is good enough, without having to buy an after market cooler, or massively increasing power consumption. When it comes to GPU's, well it is not really about the cooler with a GPU, it is about the heatsink. The Sapphire has been described as basically a brick. It is very heavy card, and it cools amazingly well. The MSI seems to be somewhat loud and preforms worse in terms of cooling than most, probably because of an inferior heatsink. Normally MSI is pretty good, but not this time. Sapphire tends to be one the the best, if not the best for AMD anyway. They are AMD exclusive, so they have to be. :)
Just to clarify 9:39, it is in fact an actual 18 Core CPU. The two "cores" that look different are cache and controller units if I see this right. Also this should be the i9-7980XE as I was told that is an overclockable Xeon CPU Intel is going to release as the top dog of their X299 platform.
Standing ovation for AMD.... Intel's R&D team caught with their pants down and now in full panic mode. This is what you get when you manipulate every 5% of performance and delibritly slow down to maximise the milking effect on your consumers. AMD deserves to blow up intel and i hope the market reward AMD for this amazing work they have done with a budget 1/10 of Intel. Now lets hope Vega does have a similar impact vs Nvidia :)
Phe rocks Vega unfortunately has a mountain to climb (he made a video on it). Vega is going to be 10% slower than a 1080 ti, which will fall behind even more with Volta. Navi is where AMD has a chance to the top as it will include the infinity fabric of the cpus to run 2-4 GPUs on 1 package
I havent seen any benchmarks yet so if you have some please do share them with me ^^ As far as rumors go i heared that 2 vega models will be faster then the 1080.
Have you considered the very real possibility that Intel is working on their own multi-die technology too? They are forced to by AMD's actions here, but also by their difficulties at newer nodes (high defect rates). It does seem like AMD has the superior technology though, for at least a few years. They need to execute to capitalize before Intel strikes back fiercely. Intel may have management issues, but their engineers are a brilliant bunch and they do have a lot of pride.
NerdTechGasm Hey man,Very well said! Totally agreed.AMD should start working on the next generation to replace Zen.2X Faster than Zen1,Core vs Core and clock vs clock.That's what I expect.I think it would be built on the 7nm+ node and will launch sometime in 2021.
Intel is going to work furiously to catch up but they only strive to be better than the competition. As long as AMD looks to the future and not just what Intel is doing they will keep causing Intel to panic.
I am Crying now..... T_T been using AMD from K6 (my 1st CPU) to Sempron 3200+ then Athlon64 (Dark Age of AMD) also all my Laptop using AMD Proc up until AMD A8 (my 1st APU) i choose AMD because i cant afford to buy Intel CPU that way to expensive. Now Ryzen is like sunrise for me.
I believe bitsandchips recently reported amd was seeing >80% yields with it's ryzen die. Amd made something inherently manufacturable. Intel won't be able to manufacture the i9's in volume.
Thanks for your input bro. I agree with you 100%. Each time I receive the notifications that you've uploaded a new video. I pour myself some "Jameson Gold" aged 18 yrs. Then, I put my feet up and enjoy the videos. Keep up the good work my friend! I truly appreciate all of your research and hard work.
What's to prevent AMD from using infinity fabric on GPU's and stacking 4 or even 8 VEGA/NAVI die on a single chip? Work that HBM2 to it's limit, real time point cloud VR may be a thing soon.
Just an additional thought. If the size of a processor (Threadripper & Epyc) is close to double the size of an intel processor it should also be much easier to cool their heat. Also when still having a comparable TDP.
Now they just need to figure out how to perfectly implement the infinity fabric on Gpus .. imagine a dual gpu card with atleast 95% scalability (ofc its still on devs if they will use the power thats why amd started collaborating with devs) .. probably theres a possibility that a quad-core GPU will exist in the next 5-10 years if the infinity fabric succeeds on gpu side ..
Fight? I'm not sure you can call this a fight. Maybe a slaughter or a massacre though. I'll never buy another AMD product again if Intel manages to somehow salvage this situation.
I think I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy because they're always the ones pushing the market forward and pushing the tech into the future. Intel and Nvidia really don't do that to this degree.
Oh boy what a glorious few weeks it's been. It's so refreshing to witness the tech press waking up and genuinely starting to believe and recommend Ryzen as the CPU's to buy. You called it out months ago Jim, great insight bud and great video.
Intel has been working on building larger chips and while they still have faster CPUs, AMD has provided a way for near infinite scalability. So while Intel has been working on larger chips which grow exponentially in price as you scale up, AMD has provided a way to tie smaller chips together which is MUCH MUCH cheaper. Intel still holds the lead for gaming performance but AMD has handed them a complete defeat in raw processing power (which is what most chips are used for). AMD is in a position to not only provide a better product but one that is cheaper. Intel is justifiably in panic mode.
I just wanted to point out (like many did before me) how much I appreciate the content you make. It's incredible how you put pieces of information together to one big thing, like you did on the "AMDs Masterplan" videos and in many others, too. Your videos are longer than those of most others, but there's nothing in them that's not informative in any way, the opposite is the case: this video for example, even though it was 23 minutes long, I listened to it carefully the whole time through. I indeed hope that you will continue with your work on this channel, because you are very good at it :-) I hope all this was not too much "you're- fantastic-stuff" in one comment, I know some people don't like it.
10 years of complacency,,, AMD being silent and secretive for a long time. AMD made intel forget that they even had a competition and they got caught with their pants down.
The infinity fabric is built inside the CPU between the cores, two and four CPU die on the same package using infinity fabric, and multiple CPU per board using infinity fabric. Sounds like AMD could keep pumping cores and and build an unlimited number of configurations.
Nice seems that the design works just as I predicted. Infinity fabric seems to be some kind of secret sauce that enables AMD to scale all parts of the SoC. So Ryzen = dual channel thread ripper = quad channel and I believe epyc to be have octo channel ram set up. The reason I believe this is that The cores obviously double with each chip, it seems the pcie lanes about double as well ( a few extra from the chipset would make up the difference up) So it would certainly make sense that the potential memory channels double each time as well. if that is the case then AMD are going to leave a smouldering crater in the server space where Intel have reiged supreme for years. AMD, well done it took you long enough though. Try not to fuck us all if your consumer market share makes a come back as well eh ;)
Bulldozer is not a mistake or a failure, it's an innovation. It's what they learned in the adventure that lead to what is happening right now with Ryzen and even more Threadripper and Epyc. Making manufacture more modular, optimizing branch prediction, better core interconnection, make their processors less expensive and have better multithreaded performance. Their experience with ARM also gave them knowledge how to integrate SME, even if the result is needing faster DDR4 clock, it's awesome to see AMD caring about security when Intel compromise our security with Intel ME/AMT.
Wow, another great video Jim, Linus has his rage, Jay has his disappointment, and you bring the drama and emotion into it every time. This video is up there with the Master Plan Part 2 video. AMD are on a winner here and you my friend make it sound monumental...
At 14.40 - 14.50 you discuss the top end Threadripper, but I think you made a slip-up. You said sixteen threads at 3.5GHz. Whereas I think you meant sixteen cores. (By the way, good video. Easily the best one I have seen on this subject, and I have viewed maybe five.)
AdoredTV, Love your videos. A long time listener, first time caller. I think we need to get a some misinformation squashed. Intel's server SKUs are slightly different from Desktop and HDET SKUs. 8xxx means TDP restricted for 8 socket servers, 4xxx means TDP restricted for 4 socket servers, and so on. The CPU going against threadripper will be from 2xxx lineup, which is considerably cheaper for same performance, as it is certified for upto 2 socket servers only. Since HDETs are generally 1 to 2 socket, look for 2xxx-v4 if you wish to compare apples to apples. I hope this helps. Ref: I am an engineer who works on datacentre designs.
Yes I know, I was mostly pointing out that these are Intel's best CPUs (in silicon terms) though with hindsight you're right I should just have used the 2699A v4 like AMD did. That's "only" a $5K cpu. ;)
I hear that a lot, and Charlie over at SemiAccurate talks about it a lot too. Intel has just been milking it for what seems like forever, I believe literally every company that gets hold of Epyc will jump ship. It'll take time though. ;)
I'm living in Sweden but it's only 8pm here. I'll be staying up a bit later anyway, working on finishing my PC build video which is coming on Tuesday, and also the small matter of the UK general election on tv. ;)
wow I never thought about that. All they have to do is get 8 core cpu working at the desired frequency and then just connect them using the infinity fabric. Theoretically they can do it with an unlimited amount of dies. practically, it all depends on how much heat they produce, watts, voltage and how well they work together, oh and the size. Amazing stuff right here, I guess that's what happens when you get thrown around for a while. You just gotta keep trying shit, keep trying shit, keep trying shit lol There's a wall? Go over not working go through . Not working? Go under it. Not working? You get the point. AMD really had to come up with this solution. It really is thinking outside the box. I guess the saying "The key to success is failure" holds true in this scenario. Good for them. Now the buck is in Intel's corner. Let's see what genius plan they come up with, I mean they do have a lot money to burn after all...sometimes it takes pain to make the brain smarter lol
Look at the surface area of that thing. It's about the same wattage as current CPUs but about 6 times the area. YOu could probably aircool it at maybe 1Ghz over stock and still be within safe limits.
So Jim, mate, what's your take on the Infinity Fabric for Vega? Will it only be used on the Radeon Pro range? Will Navi come out much sooner since the Infinity Fabric is so successful? Does the IF scale as well with GPU workloads as it does with CPU workloads?
Probably not. If Cyrix had access to modern processes, and Intel didn't pull their compiler trick then Cyrix might still be around. Their last chip had better IPC than AMD or Intel but was hampered by clockspeed.
I have yet to experience a Xeon that gets over the base clock into turbo area. Maybe if more care is taken to cool them, but the typical server is not like that.
I've been saying this about these 18 core chips to people who seem to assume that they'll be able to clock them to well over 4.0GHz. These intel behemoths will produce way to much heat and power draw to do those kind of clock speeds. The 12 core might make it to 4.0+GHz all cores, but after that you're going to be trading cores for clock speed at a greater rate and I suspect that a 14 core's top speed will be severely curtailed to much less than what a Threadripper can do @ 16 cores. Without testing, I suspect that as long as the motherboard can deliver the power to the CPU, the way the Ryzen dies are arranged inside Threadripper, reduces the thermal impact of neighbouring cores, so it'll be like overclocking 2 Ryzen CPU's rather than one monolithic Threadripper. Every 16 core threadripper should be able to clock to 3.8Ghz all cores as long as the motherboard VRM's are capable of delivering up to 300Watts safely. (Ryzen 7 @ 3.8Ghz under full load = ~140W) and I suspect that the 16 core threadripper will see people get around 4.0GHz regularly. Even with a 32 core Epyc I think the limiting factor will be power draw from the VRM's because we still have those islands of heat within the CPU that will mitigate neighbouring core thermal issues and it will be very interesting to see if they will be overclocker friendly or if not then hopefully the next gen Threadrippers will see a 24 core (3 or 4 die) Threadripper become available to shit on Intels 18 core king of the hill attempt. With this high number of cores perf/watt becomes the main metric rather than IPC and zen cores have about 20% gain over Kaby lake cores (7700k) on that metric.
tilera has had a 72 core for quite a while, my router has the 36 core variant though, its not an x86 architecture but it does very well for the things that x86 or gpus doesnt. It would be nice to see how many PCIe lanes threadripper has, whether it can fit 2 GPUS + a couple of SFP+ NICs.
AMD got Infinity Fabric from its 2012 SeaMicro acquisition. That 330m purchase, made when AMD was near broke, looked really dumb until they did that 13.04 sec blendr demo. Anyone know what INTC is up to with its McM tech. They were talking it up a few months back
Wow!!! What an in depth explanation of the current X86 CPU situation. No-one else has thought it right through like you have and delivered it in such a simple easy to understand manor. Thanks sooooo much. Well Done!!!!
I consider myself an Intel fan, always was and always will be, but even I must say that Ryzen truly is great, no it's Awesome! Intel had it's glory and fame, they blew it.
Silverry they have killer Xeon CPU's and we get this crap? they tried that DLC BS before, it failed, same will happen again. i can buy 1600x + ASrock mobo for 400$. and be happy. but this? no way man, just no way, I will rather buy xeon mobo with 2 cpu's last gen than waste 2k on "new" skylake+
Byokugen Xeon price seems pretty inflated tho. I feel that Naples would be way cheaper than the Xeon. There isn't really any Xeon competitor so...we have to wait if AMD exposes the prices to be BS or if are prices which are very good.
Silverry intel has a monopoly on the server field, so yeah prices are BS. but hey, last gen xeon CPU can be found dirt cheap. so I will either go with 7700k or some dual xeon build. I am tempted to go 1600x, it's all up to Intel now. but hats off to AMD and finally making something awesome, still remember athlon 6000+, last awesome cpu
Anyone who is watching the comments needs to check into buying AMD stock immediately. Its currently under $15 but I look for it to hit 50 after AMD starts to take mkt share from Intel. Intel is in trouble.
When 2 of the biggest tech UA-camrs out there come out and state that the MOBO manufacturers they've talked to are all saying this platform is a fucking mess, you know you've fucked up.
Are you referring to Skylake X or Ryzen? Because they complained a tonne about Ryzen too.
You really don't know anything about the Intel Computex fiasco do you. Watch Linus' video for more and then just go down the list of hardware UA-camrs and watch their vids as well.
Gottlieb M. there is still main stream platform war next year coffee vs zen 2, i think
Who's that other biggest tech UA-camr? Linus? Heard him also complaining about the mobo.
Alxasaurus Linus and Jayztwocents.
Wait... so basically AMD CPUs are manufactured independently and then added onto the infinity fabric, while the Intel ones are manufactured in a block, so if one fails that's it.
Therefore using AMD's process, the cost of production scales linearly with cores, while Intel's price scales exponentially.
So even if AMD cores are slower than Intel's, they can offer more cores at a fraction of the cost. Smart.
Yes, it's world-class engineering.
I'd been wondering for years why they couldn't do this (with GPUs though, not CPUs) - why they couldn't make something like the 7990 show up as one GPU instead of two... Now I know... They were working on it :p
And AMD yields have been VERY good. I believe as much as 80% of their dies come out fully capable of making 1800X CPU's
This is why AMD's infinity fabric is true innovation. They break the standard way of doing things and create a new way that has way higher profits, lower failed dies, and can scale to meet those high demands. It's the magic sauce. AND YOU WOULD THINK A $180 Billion Corporation would come up with it first, BUT NAH.
Not just if one 'fails', they can match silicon with like silicon. With intels method, you have, say, 15 cores that can run at 3.2ghz while 9 can only run at 2.8ghz, tough titties the entire CPU now runs at 2.8ghz unless you want to accept a massive loss and sell a 14 core 3.2ghz CPU.
With AMD, that never happens. They build 10x 8-core clusters/complexes, 3x of them run at 3.2ghz, 4x of them at 3.1ghz wile the last 3 run at 2.8ghz. Take the 3x that run at 3.2ghz and build a 24 core, take 4x to make a 32 core at 3.1ghz and selectively disable cores on the last 3 to make a 3ghz 20 core.
AMD can use so much more of what they end up with it's incredible. They could build a 24 core CPU running at the same clock speeds of intels best xeon out of their literal scraps. Take the shit clusters, build a 4x cluster CPU and disable 8 of the hotter cores, and then sell it for whatever they want because those were going to the bin otherwise.
Intel literally became a meme.
Explicit Tech how?
Sponsoring Anita Sarkeesian, using shit TIM on their CPU dies, telling 7700K owners not to overclock and announcing a cashgrab, undeveloped and totally overpriced X series of CPUs
arthur staal by offering a 4c/4t processor on a high end socket..... Wtf are these guys doing.
did you even watch the video? intel is a meme now R.I.P Intel
I asked for a refund on my Xeon E7 8867 v4 @2.4GHz, and all I got back was this lousy i-shirt.
now infinity fabric needs to come to graphics cards
JoraForever Its called navi
It's already up there with Vega.
Vega will also be using infinity fabric. If I'm not mistaken, the successor to Vega (Navi) ought to be a scalable GPU architecture, using the same trick as Ryzen CPUs are using now.
AMD already started it's in Vega and part of the reason it's late.
Gerhard Kiels I would really love to understand how the infinity fabric works because it honestly seems too good to be true. "Infinitely" scaleble architecture is a game changer for sure.
Infinity Fabric is just genius. It's 1000x easier to manufacture 4x8-core dies than a 32 core die like what Intel was trying to do with their highest-end Xeons.
This was the best move from AMD and it's going to pay out in a big way.
It is bigger than just the CPU. Rumours has it that Navi (Vega replacement for 2019) will also be build like this. Imagine huge GPU's with excellent yields and AMD undercutting Nvidia, while matching in performance, and making huge per unit profits too.
bingo1
do you have a link or something ? i'm really curious about what your saying .
I consider myself an AMD fanboy these days for two reasons:
#1 Intel has been milking us for ages.
#2 We need AMD to stay in the game because of #1.
Jaroslav Záruba I am with AMD cus OPENSOURCE everyone spying our asses
Jaroslav Záruba also fuck nvidia
Yeah definitely fuck nvidia, they're just as bad.
true, should have mentioned the openness of AMD and the nvidia shenanigans (which kinda resembles intel)
Don't be a fanboy. At least not in what it has meant to be. Be a skeptical fan who tries to not get hyped for things that company does.
Allows for much more rational discussion!
This may be you already, just fanboy has come to mean overly zealous and close minded in many (most?) cases.
Arrogance gets punished... eventually.
BI Digital
I believe that to be true. can't wait til it happens to Apple
So true
if you are a INTEL shareholder, tighten your sphincter... that kind of disaster
Pigs fly... eventually
Finally people realize this. And sooner or later, when AMD gets the marketshare back, and starts making bigger profits, we'll see an improvement in the graphics department too. It may be a different group, but same mother company. More money for GPUs=better GPUs, and therefore, more balance in the GPU market. Great.
AMD is and has remain Competitive in the GPU Market.
What has always hurt them in terms of Profitability is ... well put simply Branding.
NVIDIA has always had better Brand Awareness and Image. It's arguable if said image is actually warranted, and frankly not something I'd care to get into.
Now I've been trying to explain as far as VEGA is concerned, that the silicon is far more capable than what it appears to be at present... and this isn't due to Drivers, Support, etc.
Rather it's due to AMDs own approach, as it doesn't benefit them to decimate their Competition.
As innovations from NVIDIA are in essence "Free" Technology Development, especially when you consider that both Companies use similar Fabrication Sources.
What AMD are doing, is in essence forcing NVIDIA away from Proprietary Practises into Open Standards; by essentially making it easier for the Market as a whole to support Open Standards with much more rapid development and customisation.
This in turn reduces the possible "Optimisation" approaches that NVIDIA are employing with their Hardware.
It's in essence quite a smart move... as it's like embarking on a full-scale attack on all sides, not to gain ground as a concerted plan, but instead to look to see where your opponent choses to fall back and protect the most.
It ends up saying more about what they're doing, where before you would be essentially guessing at how they were holding any advantage; then you can focus on either circumventing or creating a direct response to such.
Polaris was exactly that. It's why they didn't need to attack the "High End", but rather observe how NVIDIA responded within the Low-to-Mid Range. This spoke volumes louder than trying to compete against their Fully Realised versions of said Architecture... and also where they're most vulnerable.
intel will still outsell AMD just like how Nvidia did back a few years ago.
how much you want to bet the people will still buy intel... sighh
The gpu market looks good to me... Nvidia actually listens to people no like intel.
BrotherO4 I think Ryzen sells pretty good and with Zen+ and Zen2 people will start to realize what they've been missing out on.
In a logical world...people should buy something that is 4x more expansive while worst... That is the stupid part
Much better video than the overly dramatic Linus and jayztwocent videos. You accurately explain why AMD has the upper hand this gen.
Cheers bud.
Let me be clear. I have nothing against Linus or Jay, as I don't know either of them personally. I'm just saying their response to X299 was way more emotional then it needed to be.
So long as nobody is attacking the other tech guys, I don't mind a bit of banter.
I won't name the other reviewers either, but they very clearly are silly and even post videos that are mostly or completely there for humor and/or to stir up emotions.
Jim here tells it straight all the time and breaks it down by the numbers. He produces less videos because there's no filler and it's all logical and backed by the numbers in black and white. It takes more work and it's better quality.
Well, Linus and Jayz2c at least address the issue. Unlike old giants like anandtech and tom's hardware which doesn't seem to have really grasped what's going on? Like Tom's current list of best CPUs for the money being a pure Intel line up.
I discussed the very issue on inter-core connect the other day with an avid Intel fanboi and he was going on and on about how Intel took the Xeon inter-core connect and revised it for a lower core count for the -x series. But why do that? Why revise it if it works? Was it too expensive? too inefficient? Maybe it just wasn't a good design in the first place then?
And remember Intel now has to scale it back up again if they as they've promised are going to develop an 18 core -x series CPU. I have no doubt that they didn't even consider starting the design work for above 12 core versions before it was obvious that Threadripper was going to beat all they were planning to offer originally.
The Zen architecture is actually just the culmination of something AMD has been working on for years. Scalability. Initially they tried it in GPUs where they basically said, it's fine not to have the fastest as long as we can put more GPUs on the card or connect several cards to get the performance up at the same cost. It didn't work well in the GPU space due to scalability just not being there. So back to the drawing board. Or rather, they tossed the idea away for a couple of year until some brilliant mind decided to try it out on CPUs instead.
Yeah this infinity fabric really is the thing. When intel finally puts their 18 core out, Amd just needs to ad another chip on top and say: look we have a 26 core now for you!
the servers cpu will go up to 32 cores and 64 threads. ITS A MONSTER.
And it's unlocked :)
Its not monster, its THREADRIPPER
Mike H unlocked as fuck.. ❤
and when Intel catches up at 32 cores eventually, AMD just puts 2 Epycs together and has 64 Cores still at a lower price xD
*If you do not have to scroll in task manager's thread display then you're doing something wrong.*
>Not having a 64core 128 thread dual socket Motherboard to go with your 4k screen.
Or you could set your scaling to 400%
The way AMD has Ryzen is Epyc!
RdyPlyOne let's just hope epyc doesn't turn EPIC if you catch my drift
This comment should to be pinned!
RdyPlyOne to right lmao
yes they are threading the way to glory
Ba-dum tssss...
I just can't understand why you don't have more subscribers. Honestly I can't. Every time you upload, you give clear, well researched information. You're far and away my go-to guy as far as tech videos. Keep it up!
Cheers bud,
BEcause he does not have clickbait thumbs nails and does not serve the lowest common denominator. People who are actually interested in the market and can understand what is going on come here.
to be fair, both him and nerdsgam are actually really detailed.
I can see my little cousin seeing a video on laptops from Linus or the new computer from Jay to the old spice guy.
I cant see him watching a 20-30 min, three part series on AMD's master plan...
Ali I agree. It takes a certain type of person to be able to just listen to content like this. The type of person that isn't content with things just being glossed over and wants a detailed analysis. I think we're the minority unfortunately.
If that's the case, I'm glad I'm in that minority. :D I love this kind of content, I think it takes someone with a real passion for it to both make it and watch it.
It's about time intels shitty business practices caught up with them.
AMD caught Intel 100% off guard with Ripper.
GameNGrindTV [AMD - Ripping Intel a New One since 2017.]
GameNGrindTV not really, Intel knew they we're gonna get bitchslapped the moment AMD annouced infinity fabric. It's been a continuous panic @ Intel hq since December, an we're now seeing the result
GameNGrindTV yup
It's really Intel's fault. They saw they were ahead and pretty much scrapped innovation research.
Ok, so, AMD's lack of budget forced them to innovate, so do the very best with the little they have, and as a result, design a CPU more efficient, cheaper to produce in mass, and with the possibility to even use the faulty ones too to sell, and as a result, be able to easily produce CPUs with as much cores as they want with Infinity fabric, wow, Intel with its vast budget got lazy and stagnant, because they could afford to create actual blocks with a lot of cores inside, exponentially increasing the cost, and thus the cost are charged to the public, wow, ok now I understand, so Intel, you are very but very FUCKEDD, you got shagged from behind with your pants down Intel.
I was so glued to this information that I swear it felt more like a 2 minute video. I think Jim has invented a new kind of video called "Info Porn"
Information density is a glorious thing... forgotten by many of the meme generation.
orite guys howzit goin
it gets better every time
It is a nice catch phrase. Like it's a greeting but I think Howitzers everytime I hear it and his voice and accent snap you into AWW YEA TECH NEWS time.
hahaha lol.. I love Adored thats a major reason why I sub'ed.
It's great when he starts a comment on someone else's video too, you read it in your head in his voice!
I love mimicking accents, and his presentations really help me nail doon Scottish. One thing is certain: If you learned what you know from 'Scotty' on Star Trek, you're doing it wrong. :D
orryte guys howzit gon
'coffin lake'
14:58 That graph is just beautiful!
X299 is a joke.
And Intel is a meme.
Oy gevalt!
+AdoredTV, think i'm just going to replace my 4670K with some secondhand 4770K and wait for Ryzen to mature. Or come out on ITX platform -_-. It's just that I mainly use it for gaming, and right now the 1600X isn't that impressive compared to an overclocked i5. It will in time, no doubt.
Didn't understand the comment that noone playing at 1080p wants these CPU's though. Getting high fps now requires an i7, and high refresh monitors are making headway.
AdoredTV whats intel? can i eat it? 😉
lol when intel has SB AMD has FX .This is crapy cpu for home .Zero fps in game xD
You can't even feel sorry for Intel they've had the money to innovate for the past 10 years and they chose the easy option instead
They did innovate tho...
They innovated the most efficient way to screw over customers.
Why do you think that Intel's 14nm part clocks to 5GHz, but AMD/GlobalFoundries' part struggles to reach 4GHz? Intel clearly is innovating.
lol i want to see that same chip at 5ghz with 18 cores.... im pretty sure threadripper can hit 4ghz... hell i want to see that i9 hit 4ghz.... probably on 1 core Lul and the rest 2.9ghz
The reason Intel is at 5GHz while AMD is at 4GHz is due to what I said at the end - GF's 14nm process is an exact copy of Samsung's which was built for mobile phones, ie low power. It's been tweaked a little but we'll see better clocks with Zen next year and 14nm+.
other tomperson fx 9590 hit 5ghz first how is kaby lake innovation?
I really love what Lisa's been doing for AMD. She literally walked in with cleats, and stomped on all Intel employees dicks. 3 months ago I was back and fourth with 600$ cash (Canadian) trying to decide on an i5 7600k upgrade, or R5 1600. Glad I went with that R5.
I was SO looking forward to your opinion on this. Thanks for providing it. You truly are a blessing to this corrupt tech industry.
I think Infinity Fabric is probably the smartest CPU technology developed within the last decade or more. This is the big game changer here, because they only need one manufacturing process/line to develop every chip they make. That is incredibly efficient. The fact that they can use almost every chip they make, even if flawed, without wasting resources...that's huge.
9:39 For anyone wondering, that's an 18-core CPU. The two "cores" that look different are the memory controllers. Right now, Intel has three main dies for non-desktop CPU's - LCC, HCC, and XCC. LCC dies have 10 cores, HCC dies (pictured in the video) have 18, and XCC have 28. These dies are where HEDT and Xeon processors come from.
That's why going from 10 cores to 12 cores is non-trivial for Intel HEDT processors - they have to jump from the LCC die to the HCC die, which is both more expensive overall due to the lower yields, and also cuts more heavily into Xeon profits when used for non-Xeon products.
Haven't had an AMD in years ...just bought a 1950X ! Was simply a no brainer.
So AMD Ryzen/Threadripper/Epyc cpus are basically lego bricks? you make a butt load of Ryzen7's and then stick them together ad nauseam?
At least up to 4 on a die...currently. The possibilities are probably endless though.
That is a clever design! 2017 is the year where AMD gets off the ropes and lands some serious body blows to Intel and Nvidia...
Deep down we ALL know that both Intel and Nvidia have the size, and muscle to stomp AMD down again in 2018... but the true winners will be the consumer who will get better tech at better price. and for that AMD deserves all the respect..
Intel is going to need to do some serious restructuring or sell their chips at a loss to compete. I hope they come up with something as letting one company own a majority of the marketshare is never a good idea.
It's not good that intel did it and it won't be good if AMD does it.
Having only 28 pcie lanes on the 8 and 6 core cpus is absolutely stupid. Many people wanting the HEDT platform are looking for the ability for many pcie devices. The six core cpus used to have 40 lanes...
intel's only innovation in 10 years is how to milk consumers the most efficient way possible and squeeze out ever last penny in their pocket.
TheSinisterEyes1 and good cooling for they first multi core cpus
@9m45s, those two "weird cores" are actually the DDR4 memory controllers.
Man. You are awesome. I'll donate to you once I sell my AMD shares.
I'm sorry that I can only upvote you once.
Why me? Upvote AdoredTV he deserves it more!
I am planning on the same thing lol!
good buy dude, AMD share gaining right now
RushDark He knows, that is the reason he is saying he will donate later.
I know I keep saying this but I still have to wonder if AMD will shock us by releasing a dual Vega chip that is using infinity fabric so runs as 1 GPU. If it does Nvidia might be in the same boat as intel. I doubt it will happen till Navi but I wont be shocked..
EDIT: I guess I should just try to remember that AMD doesn't generally sandbag though I guess they KIND of did with Ryzen though i think it was unintentional :)
Curious Wars That's what I've been thinking too. Navi is supposed to be largely based off Vega, but on a 7nm process. Should be very efficient, and thus it would be perfect for a multi GPU card. Imagine anywhere from 2-4 GPUs on one card. That would be insanity, and is theoretically possible.
I'm loving my 1800X, did a test render of a 50% (I still need to put video on 50% of it) complete video 4.5 minutes long, rendered in 1.5 minutes
That moment when you realize that AMD is beating Intel across *all* segments with just *one* chip design! Mindblown!!!
Man, this video aged like AMD Fine Wine
I am going to upgrade my i5 3450 with a Ryzen 7 1700. Intel's prices are ridicolous, AMD is providing the same or more performance for the same / half the price.
MaGNaCET33
I'm currently using a R7 1700 w/ GTX 1080 and I am in love. 3dmark benchmark score was 7,260
www.3dmark.com/3dm/20463212
Reason its at 3.5 is because of Game Boost in BIOS - not OCed at all. Ram is capable of 3200 but its at 2133 & tbh OCing ram doesn't give enough of a performance boost. You will love your R7.
Holy bollox! You're in your ace when you can narrate this kind of video where some underdog seems to have an uppercut gathering speed that the receiver is not prepared for at all. This and the Master Plan pt. 2 video, are just fantastic to watch.
I get butterflies watching a video mostly about clock speed, die sizes and expensive enterprise tech. How the hell do you do it? You're really nailing this style of video. Keep up the good work!
Cheers.
0:07 "The tech community is having a bit of a meltdown"... You knew all along...
Intel must of thought they're selling mixtapes instead of cpu's. That's why they're so hot compared to ayymd
Not gonna lie, the title made me giggle a bit. :P
Loving the Ryzen 1700 by the way, a very worthy upgrade from my very old, and pretty damn good i5 750. You know, that i5 where you could still overclock without paying a premium, and could get the CPU for a reasonable price. I only paid €150 for it. ;)
I have that same CPU myself, upgraded from an i5-4670K. nothing but pure awesome from the Ryzen CPU. had a little trouble screwing the stock cooler down but done it in the end
Only upgrade I need to do now is replace my MSI GTX960 2GB with an MSI or Sapphire RX580 8GB and then no more insufficient VRAM problems again alongside some new SSD's and HDD's.
Same. The stock cooler was a tad annoying, but perfectly doable. The first time around I had issues with the backplate and ended up tiding one screw to much, and one to little so the cooler was offset. Second time around everything worked out. It had been quite a few years. :P
Also, I just love that stock cooler. Overclocked my 1700 tot 3,5ghz right now with 1,26v. There is probably more in it, 3,6ghz or 3,7ghz. Don't really care beyond that. I don't even hear the stock cooler right now unless I fire up Prime 95. In the end it even is a downvolt because my 1700 would peek go way beyond 1,3v at stocks speeds. :P
Also, MSI seems to have really screwed up there RX580 cooler. RX480 was one of the better, now not so much. Defiantly pick up a Sapphire Nitro+ if you can. That is the best RX580 out there. Ordered one myself because my 5 year old 7950 is done, both in terms of performance and it is dying slowly.
Try finding an RX 580 they are like hidden diamonds!
Exactly my problem with installing the stock cooler. :D Got there in the end though. the stock cooler apparantly will support cooling the 1700 up to 3.9GHz if you can get it up there. mines sitting at a nice 3.2GHz and it's faster than my old i5, considering the 4670K is clocked at 3.4GHz stock/base, not to mention my 1700 is just at 3.2Ghz purely because it's fine with cooling. The stock cooler AMD has for their Ryzen line, is FAR SUPERIOR to any intel has made for their CPU's, when they bundled them with the CPU's.
I am leaning more toward the Sapphire card for the RX580, simply because the backplate on it looks nice. but the cooler itself on the MSI version looks aggressive, and is practically the same in looks to my 960. Only difference being, more VRAM and AMD instead of Nvidia.
Ryzen is a bit of an oddball with overclocking. Pretty much every Ryzen CPU will go to 3,7ghz without much issue. After that point the voltage required goes up very fast. At the same time, the stock cooler seems to be good until around 3,7ghz to. After that, it starts struggling a bit. That is why I intend to stick to 3,7ghz as maximum. It is good enough, without having to buy an after market cooler, or massively increasing power consumption.
When it comes to GPU's, well it is not really about the cooler with a GPU, it is about the heatsink. The Sapphire has been described as basically a brick. It is very heavy card, and it cools amazingly well. The MSI seems to be somewhat loud and preforms worse in terms of cooling than most, probably because of an inferior heatsink. Normally MSI is pretty good, but not this time. Sapphire tends to be one the the best, if not the best for AMD anyway. They are AMD exclusive, so they have to be. :)
Hey Jim, since IBM's 5nm was in partnership with GlobalFoundries do you think AMD will leap frog a process node for Zen3?
i heard about this and OMG... i need to buy AMD stock now. 5nm ryzen im definitely getting rid of my intel CPU sorry but intel belongs in htpc now.
2018 i9-7960X Skylake X 2.8 ghz 16 core $1399 on newegg
2018 i9-7980XE Skylake X 2.6ghz 18 core $1879 on newegg
2018 AMD RYZEN Threadripper 1950X 3.4ghz 16 core $749 on newegg
The pain is real!
Indeedy. Any Billy Funt can see what's happening.
One down. One to go. Looks like AMD is in good hands. Nice work AdoredTV. Found you yesterday. Binge watching.
'Only' $9000. Noice
zBruda youtube moneyz 😂
zBruda at the same time if it's as rare as he says it is, it does justify the cost, and that's the ryzon amds way is way better
R360ЯN
thats pretty low. you should look for another job.
epyc probably sells for less than 2000 dollars for 32 cores vs 24 cores 9000$ Lul intel is a meme
I get 9000$ as change
Just remember that amd's and intel's tdp's are not comparable due to different measuring method they use.
usally the best ideas come at the worst times
Very true.
Just to clarify 9:39, it is in fact an actual 18 Core CPU. The two "cores" that look different are cache and controller units if I see this right.
Also this should be the i9-7980XE as I was told that is an overclockable Xeon CPU Intel is going to release as the top dog of their X299 platform.
Oh, I didn't see there was a picture of it later in the video mentioning this model number.
Cool ta, I wasn't sure if that was something to do with AVX or something else. Very strange positioning.
7:30 this is where intel fanboys suddenly stop caring about power efficiency.
Standing ovation for AMD....
Intel's R&D team caught with their pants down and now in full panic mode.
This is what you get when you manipulate every 5% of performance and delibritly slow down to maximise the milking effect on your consumers.
AMD deserves to blow up intel and i hope the market reward AMD for this amazing work they have done with a budget 1/10 of Intel.
Now lets hope Vega does have a similar impact vs Nvidia :)
Phe rocks
Vega unfortunately has a mountain to climb (he made a video on it). Vega is going to be 10% slower than a 1080 ti, which will fall behind even more with Volta. Navi is where AMD has a chance to the top as it will include the infinity fabric of the cpus to run 2-4 GPUs on 1 package
I havent seen any benchmarks yet so if you have some please do share them with me ^^
As far as rumors go i heared that 2 vega models will be faster then the 1080.
Have you considered the very real possibility that Intel is working on their own multi-die technology too? They are forced to by AMD's actions here, but also by their difficulties at newer nodes (high defect rates).
It does seem like AMD has the superior technology though, for at least a few years. They need to execute to capitalize before Intel strikes back fiercely. Intel may have management issues, but their engineers are a brilliant bunch and they do have a lot of pride.
NerdTechGasm Hey man,Very well said! Totally agreed.AMD should start working on the next generation to replace Zen.2X Faster than Zen1,Core vs Core and clock vs clock.That's what I expect.I think it would be built on the 7nm+ node and will launch sometime in 2021.
They are working on it, it's called EMIB, but we know it's not coming until 10nm at the earliest. At best they are 2 years behind I reckon.
Intel is going to work furiously to catch up but they only strive to be better than the competition. As long as AMD looks to the future and not just what Intel is doing they will keep causing Intel to panic.
''Intel in complete disarray and panic''.
I am Crying now..... T_T
been using AMD from K6 (my 1st CPU) to Sempron 3200+ then Athlon64 (Dark Age of AMD) also all my Laptop using AMD Proc up until AMD A8 (my 1st APU) i choose AMD because i cant afford to buy Intel CPU that way to expensive.
Now Ryzen is like sunrise for me.
I believe bitsandchips recently reported amd was seeing >80% yields with it's ryzen die.
Amd made something inherently manufacturable.
Intel won't be able to manufacture the i9's in volume.
Thanks for your input bro. I agree with you 100%. Each time I receive the notifications that you've uploaded a new video. I pour myself some "Jameson Gold" aged 18 yrs. Then, I put my feet up and enjoy the videos. Keep up the good work my friend! I truly appreciate all of your research and hard work.
Bah...if it aint 95% rye whiskey then it better be bourbon.
I like how Jim's videos become more relevant over time.
What's to prevent AMD from using infinity fabric on GPU's and stacking 4 or even 8 VEGA/NAVI die on a single chip? Work that HBM2 to it's limit, real time point cloud VR may be a thing soon.
NAVI use HBM3 (7nm and CCX x 4 CCX x 4 will give 45 TF ,not second generation.
Just an additional thought. If the size of a processor (Threadripper & Epyc) is close to double the size of an intel processor it should also be much easier to cool their heat. Also when still having a comparable TDP.
Now they just need to figure out how to perfectly implement the infinity fabric on Gpus .. imagine a dual gpu card with atleast 95% scalability (ofc its still on devs if they will use the power thats why amd started collaborating with devs) .. probably theres a possibility that a quad-core GPU will exist in the next 5-10 years if the infinity fabric succeeds on gpu side
..
let's hope Nvidia is next
The time has come ladies and gentlemen... AdoredTV has entered the ring and joined the fight on Intel. Round one, fight!
Mike D I meant after the i9 info dropped. Channel after channel is saying "like wtf intel?" and now Adored got his time in
Fight? I'm not sure you can call this a fight. Maybe a slaughter or a massacre though. I'll never buy another AMD product again if Intel manages to somehow salvage this situation.
No. He merely presents the numbers and his take on it. He doesn't fight Intel or Nvidia.
Hence my statement that i won't buy AMD if Intel manages to get sales.
Brennor Gonzalez like said.. happy buying.. dealing with both cost and heat... 😂😂😂😂😂
THANK YOU for highlighting PCIe lane bottlebecks for Xfire/SLI - its a real issue today... let alone in the future.
I think I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy because they're always the ones pushing the market forward and pushing the tech into the future. Intel and Nvidia really don't do that to this degree.
Oh boy what a glorious few weeks it's been. It's so refreshing to witness the tech press waking up and genuinely starting to believe and recommend Ryzen as the CPU's to buy. You called it out months ago Jim, great insight bud and great video.
Cheers bud. Yeah I was going to cover the press reaction a bit more but the video was already really long, maybe in a future video. ;)
Where is the guy from Hardware Unboxed?
I don't even understand 10% of what you are saying, but I watch the whole thing because your voice is so relaxing
Orange Zone he is my senpai
Intel has been working on building larger chips and while they still have faster CPUs, AMD has provided a way for near infinite scalability.
So while Intel has been working on larger chips which grow exponentially in price as you scale up, AMD has provided a way to tie smaller chips together which is MUCH MUCH cheaper.
Intel still holds the lead for gaming performance but AMD has handed them a complete defeat in raw processing power (which is what most chips are used for).
AMD is in a position to not only provide a better product but one that is cheaper. Intel is justifiably in panic mode.
Now that I can understand. Thanks!
I just wanted to point out (like many did before me) how much I appreciate the content you make. It's incredible how you put pieces of information together to one big thing, like you did on the "AMDs Masterplan" videos and in many others, too. Your videos are longer than those of most others, but there's nothing in them that's not informative in any way, the opposite is the case: this video for example, even though it was 23 minutes long, I listened to it carefully the whole time through. I indeed hope that you will continue with your work on this channel, because you are very good at it :-)
I hope all this was not too much "you're- fantastic-stuff" in one comment, I know some people don't like it.
Cheers bud, nah I like to know that my videos were enjoyed, tbh it's the only reason I'm doing it. ;)
Get in on the next Scrapyard wars. Linus has over 4M subscribers. That could be an awesome boost in viewers.
cant amd use the same method on their gpus with the infinity fabric ? and make a gpu made up of a lot smaler gpus that looks and works like one gpu ?
Klaus Josefsen that's the plan with NAVI
Much harder to implement I believe due to the extremely parallel nature of GPU. They're working on it though, for sure.
i hope they can do it with navi that would be great
How couldn't a massive cooperation like intel see that coming? Or did they see it coming but changing the manufacturing process was to expensive.
10 years of complacency,,, AMD being silent and secretive for a long time. AMD made intel forget that they even had a competition and they got caught with their pants down.
AMD avoided the limelight for so long that Intel had dismissed them as 'effectively not competing', thus enabling AMD to blindside them.
Interesting how a year later, this info was spot on. BRAVO
Looks like my next PC upgrade will be AMD.
The infinity fabric is built inside the CPU between the cores, two and four CPU die on the same package using infinity fabric, and multiple CPU per board using infinity fabric. Sounds like AMD could keep pumping cores and and build an unlimited number of configurations.
That feel when you will have 16 cores this year, 32 cores in two years after being stuck at 4 cores for an aeon.
TDP stands for Thermal Design Power (i.e., estimated max power draw), not performance per Watt.
Yes I know, but I'm not going to go into that explanation in a video when the TDP's given basically mean the same thing. ;)
Nice seems that the design works just as I predicted.
Infinity fabric seems to be some kind of secret sauce that enables AMD to scale all parts of the SoC.
So Ryzen = dual channel
thread ripper = quad channel
and I believe epyc to be have octo channel ram set up.
The reason I believe this is that The cores obviously double with each chip, it seems the pcie lanes about double as well ( a few extra from the chipset would make up the difference up)
So it would certainly make sense that the potential memory channels double each time as well.
if that is the case then AMD are going to leave a smouldering crater in the server space where Intel have reiged supreme for years.
AMD, well done it took you long enough though.
Try not to fuck us all if your consumer market share makes a come back as well eh ;)
Bulldozer is not a mistake or a failure, it's an innovation. It's what they learned in the adventure that lead to what is happening right now with Ryzen and even more Threadripper and Epyc. Making manufacture more modular, optimizing branch prediction, better core interconnection, make their processors less expensive and have better multithreaded performance. Their experience with ARM also gave them knowledge how to integrate SME, even if the result is needing faster DDR4 clock, it's awesome to see AMD caring about security when Intel compromise our security with Intel ME/AMT.
Definitely going with AMD for my next upgrade.
Any chance of a master plan update video?
This kind of was one, the GPU stuff needs a lot more info and playing out. ;)
Only 8 Intel fanboys for now? Wow, Ryzen changed much more than only my rig
Even the most diehard intel fanboys are catching up to the fact of how fucked intel is right now.
Wow, another great video Jim, Linus has his rage, Jay has his disappointment, and you bring the drama and emotion into it every time. This video is up there with the Master Plan Part 2 video. AMD are on a winner here and you my friend make it sound monumental...
Cheers bud.
thx Jim Keller
At 14.40 - 14.50 you discuss the top end Threadripper, but I think you made a slip-up. You said sixteen threads at 3.5GHz. Whereas I think you meant sixteen cores. (By the way, good video. Easily the best one I have seen on this subject, and I have viewed maybe five.)
these vids are like game of thrones anticipating for the next
AdoredTV, Love your videos. A long time listener, first time caller.
I think we need to get a some misinformation squashed. Intel's server SKUs are slightly different from Desktop and HDET SKUs. 8xxx means TDP restricted for 8 socket servers, 4xxx means TDP restricted for 4 socket servers, and so on. The CPU going against threadripper will be from 2xxx lineup, which is considerably cheaper for same performance, as it is certified for upto 2 socket servers only.
Since HDETs are generally 1 to 2 socket, look for 2xxx-v4 if you wish to compare apples to apples. I hope this helps.
Ref: I am an engineer who works on datacentre designs.
Yes I know, I was mostly pointing out that these are Intel's best CPUs (in silicon terms) though with hindsight you're right I should just have used the 2699A v4 like AMD did. That's "only" a $5K cpu. ;)
LOL! A lot of my clients are fed up with intel's pricing on these SKUs. I hope AMD gives me an opportunity to present a better option to them.
I hear that a lot, and Charlie over at SemiAccurate talks about it a lot too. Intel has just been milking it for what seems like forever, I believe literally every company that gets hold of Epyc will jump ship. It'll take time though. ;)
I hope so bud. And aren't you Scottish, still up at this hour? :)
I'm living in Sweden but it's only 8pm here. I'll be staying up a bit later anyway, working on finishing my PC build video which is coming on Tuesday, and also the small matter of the UK general election on tv. ;)
wow I never thought about that. All they have to do is get 8 core cpu working at the desired frequency and then just connect them using the infinity fabric. Theoretically they can do it with an unlimited amount of dies. practically, it all depends on how much heat they produce, watts, voltage and how well they work together, oh and the size. Amazing stuff right here, I guess that's what happens when you get thrown around for a while. You just gotta keep trying shit, keep trying shit, keep trying shit lol
There's a wall? Go over not working go through . Not working? Go under it. Not working? You get the point. AMD really had to come up with this solution. It really is thinking outside the box.
I guess the saying "The key to success is failure" holds true in this scenario. Good for them. Now the buck is in Intel's corner. Let's see what genius plan they come up with, I mean they do have a lot money to burn after all...sometimes it takes pain to make the brain smarter lol
Look at the surface area of that thing. It's about the same wattage as current CPUs but about 6 times the area. YOu could probably aircool it at maybe 1Ghz over stock and still be within safe limits.
Intel is a load of BS...bye bye Intel. Very happy with my 1800x
Good call Jim! On AMD having 32 cores. Almost 1 year later it happened. I guess The Scottish Hammer pounds out the predictions again! NostraScottsman!
1:01 Who noticed Hitler Reacts to AMD Zen Annoucement ? :D (Bottom Right corner)
Samuel Páltik haha that was an epic video of fun!
So Jim, mate, what's your take on the Infinity Fabric for Vega? Will it only be used on the Radeon Pro range? Will Navi come out much sooner since the Infinity Fabric is so successful? Does the IF scale as well with GPU workloads as it does with CPU workloads?
It'll work great with GPU, but maybe not with gaming loads.
Still not optimistic about Vega for gaming, huh? :/
this channel deserves more subs, no joke
its like the Pentium 4 Emergency Edition, except this time its a race against cores not clocks
... any Cyrix chips left?
Probably not. If Cyrix had access to modern processes, and Intel didn't pull their compiler trick then Cyrix might still be around. Their last chip had better IPC than AMD or Intel but was hampered by clockspeed.
I have yet to experience a Xeon that gets over the base clock into turbo area.
Maybe if more care is taken to cool them, but the typical server is not like that.
I wondered about this, would be great to see some official numbers.
Here is a toast : To AMD, and their innovations. Hopefully they can win back marketshare from Intel, and Nvidia. :)
I've been saying this about these 18 core chips to people who seem to assume that they'll be able to clock them to well over 4.0GHz. These intel behemoths will produce way to much heat and power draw to do those kind of clock speeds. The 12 core might make it to 4.0+GHz all cores, but after that you're going to be trading cores for clock speed at a greater rate and I suspect that a 14 core's top speed will be severely curtailed to much less than what a Threadripper can do @ 16 cores.
Without testing, I suspect that as long as the motherboard can deliver the power to the CPU, the way the Ryzen dies are arranged inside Threadripper, reduces the thermal impact of neighbouring cores, so it'll be like overclocking 2 Ryzen CPU's rather than one monolithic Threadripper. Every 16 core threadripper should be able to clock to 3.8Ghz all cores as long as the motherboard VRM's are capable of delivering up to 300Watts safely. (Ryzen 7 @ 3.8Ghz under full load = ~140W) and I suspect that the 16 core threadripper will see people get around 4.0GHz regularly.
Even with a 32 core Epyc I think the limiting factor will be power draw from the VRM's because we still have those islands of heat within the CPU that will mitigate neighbouring core thermal issues and it will be very interesting to see if they will be overclocker friendly or if not then hopefully the next gen Threadrippers will see a 24 core (3 or 4 die) Threadripper become available to shit on Intels 18 core king of the hill attempt.
With this high number of cores perf/watt becomes the main metric rather than IPC and zen cores have about 20% gain over Kaby lake cores (7700k) on that metric.
was a fan of AMD until the FX shit show. Ryzen regained my attention. Glad they made a comeback in a big way.
tilera has had a 72 core for quite a while, my router has the 36 core variant though, its not an x86 architecture but it does very well for the things that x86 or gpus doesnt.
It would be nice to see how many PCIe lanes threadripper has, whether it can fit 2 GPUS + a couple of SFP+ NICs.
AMD got Infinity Fabric from its 2012 SeaMicro acquisition. That 330m purchase, made when AMD was near broke, looked really dumb until they did that 13.04 sec blendr demo. Anyone know what INTC is up to with its McM tech. They were talking it up a few months back
It was a risk but the bet paid off.
Wow!!!
What an in depth explanation of the current X86 CPU situation.
No-one else has thought it right through like you have and delivered it in such a simple easy to understand manor.
Thanks sooooo much. Well Done!!!!
Cheers bud.
I consider myself an Intel fan, always was and always will be, but even I must say that Ryzen truly is great, no it's Awesome! Intel had it's glory and fame, they blew it.
Byokugen since amd is putting pressure on Intel im sure you will get better products from Intel in the future :)
cachila Well so far they came out with Skylake X after Ryzen whilst charging ridiculous prices. 16 core Intel is nearly 1000 more than AMD 16 core...
Silverry they have killer Xeon CPU's and we get this crap? they tried that DLC BS before, it failed, same will happen again. i can buy 1600x + ASrock mobo for 400$. and be happy. but this? no way man, just no way, I will rather buy xeon mobo with 2 cpu's last gen than waste 2k on "new" skylake+
Byokugen Xeon price seems pretty inflated tho. I feel that Naples would be way cheaper than the Xeon. There isn't really any Xeon competitor so...we have to wait if AMD exposes the prices to be BS or if are prices which are very good.
Silverry intel has a monopoly on the server field, so yeah prices are BS. but hey, last gen xeon CPU can be found dirt cheap. so I will either go with 7700k or some dual xeon build. I am tempted to go 1600x, it's all up to Intel now. but hats off to AMD and finally making something awesome, still remember athlon 6000+, last awesome cpu
Anyone who is watching the comments needs to check into buying AMD stock immediately. Its currently under $15 but I look for it to hit 50 after AMD starts to take mkt share from Intel. Intel is in trouble.
Good call!