Whoever thought of painting Tube and then Underground trains to match their respective logos with the doors picked out in red or orange was really brilliant. A continuation of their history of graphics and architecture innovation that is not seen elsewhere in transit.
Jago needs to make a video about that, but when the D-Stock trains first came into service, they decided to keep them in naked aluminium (so they had a silver look to them). We had a few idiots, who liked to tag trains, and then London Underground would have to blast the paint off, to try to get them back to the aluminium look. And the trains just ended up looking dirty. At, around the same time, there were some disabled campaigners, who were protesting about the way that almost all public transport blocked them from using it. Two big changes that TfL had to make where: • Replacing Routemasters, with buses where wheelchair users could get on and • Underground trains needing to have doors and bodies that were of contrasting colours. London Underground uses red, white and blue in it's roundels and they picked those same colours, as the colours to put on the trains. Other railway companies did also get ordered to change their door colours. But they sometimes look more like they are following the law, while TfL makes it look like it's part of the style. And it looks so awesome, it makes you think it's always been that way. (And, if the TfL trains did get tagged, they could make them look clean and new again, instead of needing to scrape the aluminium bodies.) If Jago ever does a video, where you see each London underground train stock before and after it got the red, white and blue makeover, you will be surprised how old some of the trains look, in their original colours.
The current livery was adopted in the 1990s when the trains were refurbished. It's certainly an effective livery, more striking than the brand all-red Bus livery
There were several other colour configurations trialled (videos can be seen on UA-cam), but I believe the winning design wasn't trialled, and was actually suggested by a London Underground employee who wasn't on the design team. It's by far the most logical, as it's similar to the roundel - a blue horizontal line across a white background, with red coming in vertically.
A video about the London underground sharing lines reminded me of a derailment that happened at Wimbledon on 6th November 2017 (at a little after 6am). There are two tracks at Wimbledon which connect tracks maintained by London Underground and tracks maintained by Network Rail. Without anybody realising it there was confusion about the exact location of the maintenance handover point. The result was a 120 metre (130 yard) stretch which the two groups of track workers thought each other were responsible for. This was only discovered when the train derailed in the uncared-for stretch of line. London Underground were able to find an agreement (from 1994) stating who would look after what. It turned out that both groups of maintenance personnel were incorrect and the right point was almost equidistant between them. At least no one was injured. The perils of shared lines! 🙂
I remember being on a train out of waterloo going to Southampton and being very confused when we went to the right at Clapham Junction, onto the Putney branch, only to then use the curve to get back onto the main line at Wimbledon, apparently there were some engneering works on the 'fast' tracks between Earlsfield and Wimbledon, hence the diversion.
I went on a Deltic-hauled railtour in 1981 ('The Wessex Deltic') which was routed on that line too. It was interesting to see the surprised faces of the commuters waiting at Southfields and Wimbledon Park for their District Line train when a Deltic roared through. 😀
2 South Western Railway services per day use the District line between Wimbledon and East Putney. They are 2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo and 2L77 2312 Waterloo to Basingstoke. Plus around 18 ECS moves (Empty Coaching Stock) use that route to get to Wimbledon Park Depot without clogging up the main lines.
In Berlin/ Germany, the equivalent to London's overground and the underground trains cannot share the same track, not only because different standards, but because before the law, the "overground" is a railway and the underground a tramway. Also in Berlin, where underground and tram are different networks
Though it should be noted that the S-Bahn (the aforementioned Overground equivalent) also is fairly similar to the LU, being considered a second metro network alongside the U-Bahn, and thanks to the use of 3rd rail mostly has got exclusive tracks (Germany uses overhead wires elsewhere except Hamburg) except at the stations Karow, a stop of the RB27 (which uses diesel trains), and Birkenwerder, a stop of the electrified RB20 which uses EMUs and as a side effect, the tracks there both have 3rd rail and overhead wires.
Prior to the legal distinction between a rapid transit service and a mainline railroad in the US, we used to have such mixes quite often. In fact, the narrow loading gauge of New York’s Interborough Rapid Transit and the wider track gauge in Philadelphia on the Market Frankfort Line were created specifically to discourage such connections onto their tracks. Ironically for its first few years the IRT had a track connection to the Long Island Railroad at Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn. On the flip side, New York’s other private subway operator, the Brooklyn Rapid Transit at the time, built up its operations by making such connections. Until WWI and the creation of the United States Railroad Administration to temporarily nationalize the rail network, BRT trains ran on LIRR tracks to the Rockaway and LIRR trains used BRT tracks to Lower Manhattan. When the Federal government created the USRA, they didn’t want to get into the local transit business and so declared the mainline trains were legally a distinct concept from rapid trainer trains. Though this basically was a pile of BS since the subway continued to share tracks… WITH FREIGHT TRAINS. Thing is, the BRT built its system by buying up what had otherwise been “mainline” railroads in southern Brooklyn. One of them, the South Brooklyn Railways, legally still exists as a mainline railroad company, despite being a wholly owned subsidiary of the Transit authority. The line ran from the waterfront in the Sunset Park neighborhood to the main subway repair shop complex, the Coney Island Yard. And to reach it, for a few blocks, it runs on the tracks of what is now the D train, between 36th street and 9th Avenue stations. It then exited the subway and ran on the streets to Coney Island. The section west of the linkup to the subway is still in use, as it’s one of the ways we (I’m a transit employee, train conductor) get deliveries of new equipment, as the tracks actually do connect to the mainline rail network.
My understanding is that it's "leftovers" from something like that why the PATH is considered a "railroad", under federal jurisdiction, rather than being a subway. Back in the Manhattan Transfer days it did quite a bit of sharing of trackage with PRR, and there were even PATH/PRR jointly owned rolling stock at one time. To leave federal jurisdiction, shortly after SEPTA got the Norristown High Speed line, they severed its connections.
@@raakone I believe PATH is also like that because it basically was a mainline railroad until the Port Authority bought it and it's terminus and built the World Trade Center on top of it
@@JuneNafziger effectivley, yes. the upside is it allows PATH to use mainline rights of way. I've stood on the platform at Journal Square PATH station as a Conrail Shared Assets train passed on an unprotected side track. Literally the only thing telling you it wasn't a PATH track is no 3rd rail. The planned extension to Newark Airport station is actually helped along by this status.
@@metropod So is that why Harrison station sits practically on the Northeast Corridor? I believe there's still a connection between the subway and the LIRR on the Bay Ridge Branch, I wonder if this'll be kept on for the IBX. There are quite a few quirks with NYC's railways, such as the old NYW&B (don't know why they ever threw Boston in the name) and how it weirdly paralleled the NH practically its entire route.
I used to work at Wimbledon Park and whilst the mainline trains didn't stop to pick up customers, they did stop due to the signalling, which then was still mainline signalling. They still sometimes used slam door trains, which meant that unless I was told beforehand, I couldn't do a PA unless I happened to see one on my monitors. This was mostly happen late at night and the unfortunate customer would end up in the Wimbledon depot.
As somebody who travels from Watford Met station to Harrow On The Hill most mornings and journeys from Kenton to Watford High Street most evenings, I feel unusually well-served by the locations featured in this video! It makes my daily routes feel far more special!
The track between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham is the only example which is owned and managed by London Underground rather than Network Rail. East Putney, Southfields and Wimbledon Park stations have been London Underground stations since 1994, but the infrastructure between East Putney and Wimbledon is operated by Network Rail.
Aah, Wimbledon LUR with with the track layout with the infamous conrail gap, with "The Box" containing a heavy jumper cable 1" (to manually clamp between conrail then car shoes) to get a train back in service and passengers off-loaded (LUR - no rescue/standby Diesels).
Interesting bit about power in shared sections: In contrast to the underground, "regular" trains only use a single "third" rail on the side -- no fourth rail in the center -- for power (and the running tracks for ground). So how does this work on the same track? According to TfL: "As of 2019, In areas where London Underground and third rail rolling stock share tracks, the centre conductor rail is electrically connected to the running rails. This still results in a 750 V voltage but in a 0 V/+750 V configuration." "The original configuration is nominally 630 V (voltage), with a −210 V centre conductor rail and a +420 V outside conductor rail. This is the default configuration wherever deep-level tube trains operate. Beginning in 2016, sections of the sub-surface network were reconfigured to a 750 V configuration (−250 V and +500 V rails)."
I was wondering about the electrical compatibility too. So does this result in a compromise where one type of train sees less voltage than it would on it's own dedicated track?
@@althejazzman In the Underground, the usual voltage is 630 volt (+420 on the outside and -210 in the centre). In the shared sections, it used to be +630 on the outside and 0 in the centre, because the middle conductor rail is bonded to the running rails. This means that both Underground and mainline trains would be running on Underground voltage. But a few years ago it was changed, so now the shared sections have +750 V on the outer rail and 0 V on the center rail. And apparently they're also upgrading parts of the exclusively Underground lines to have 750 volt operations too, but as +500/-250 instead. Regardless, 630 volt is within the tolerances of the mainline trains, and 750 volt is within the tolerances of the Underground trains.
That's very interesting. I had always thought that the centre rail was an earth rail only, but TfL indicate here that it can carry a substantial negative voltage. So stepping on the centre rail, as well as the outside rail, could do you a lot of damage (although both have a lower voltage compared to earth than the 750V d.c. on third rail).
@@wasmic5z There is an even more extreme example at Italy's Ventimiglia station just over the border from France. French locomotives running into the station are dual voltage 25kV AC / 1500V DC, while Italian locomotives are 3000V DC. A French locomotive entering the station changes from AC to 1500V DC. A 3000V DC Italian locomotive has to tolerate 1500V DC when entering the station.
I saw a documentary some years ago on Metroland (at least 20). They wandered out to the field where Verney Junction was. Its was just about possible to see traces of the Metropolitan line joining what was the "Varsity Line" (Oxford to Cambridge) and the former link off to Buckingham to the north. What could have been, eh? However, these days Verney junction might see its railway (if not the station) re-opened in a year or two as the new East-West route reconnects Oxford and Cambridge. Whoda thought? Not Dr Beeching, certainly.
actually the Varsity Line was one of the routes that Beeching wanted to keep open to serve freight services between East Anglia and South Wales. My understanding was that the BR Board itself recommended the varsity line for closure
I ended up on a South bound SWT Train that was diverted onto the Tube Lines into Wimbledon one Sunday for reasons unknown in late 2001, so it has happened outside of the Parliamentary Train Schedule.
That’s because it’s not a Parliamentary service. It’s used for empty stock and diversions, the latter because it provides better access to Wimbledon depot. The early and very late services are to retain route knowledge for the drivers and guards: ie without some regularly rostered trains there wouldn’t be enough drivers who knew the route when engineering diversions are needed.
Thanks Jago! Your picture of Gunnersbury station reminded me that my family frequently used Gunnersbury to take the NLR to go Hampstead in the 1960s. I never understood why all the signage at Gunnersbury were Southern green, and yet no southern trains used the line to Richmond at that time. Now I understand the link to LSWR. So thank you!
The Rotterdam metro also shares tracks; Between Schiedam and Vlaardingen Oost (lines A and B), the track is shared with occasional cargo trains (the line uses a former mainline railway, and some cargo trains still need to use it). And between the stations Leidschenveen and The Hague Laan van NOI on line E, the track is shared with trams from The Hague tramlines 3 and 4 (all stations being equiped with platforms at two heights; high for metro's, low for trams).
It's still impresses me how the London Underground was mostly developed out of (competing) mainlines and not out of trams to the point where the Underground (particularly the Metropolitan Line) has been more compared to the S-Bahn of Berlin than its U-Bahn. Conversely, it shouldn't be too surprising to find mainline railways at some places due to this history. This video also made me realise that Frankfurt has plans to extend its U-Bahn, with inspiration of Karlsruhe due to the different voltages of both systems, to run with the mainline, even replacing some lines (most notably, the Sodener Bahn, a former S-Bahn line and current RB11). The S-Bahn, which is developed out of normal railways, also shares track with the mainline, though that one isn't too special because many other post-WWII system do this as well (dedicated tracks are expensive, for that matter) and is mostly more of a disadvantage than a curiousity (no level boarding, congestion). There still is a case where a train drives on dedicated S-Bahn tracks and that's within Darmstadt, between Arheiling and the main station, where the route of the RB82 crosses the S-Bahn tracks and runs on them for around 100 metres.
There's an interesting relic of the old LSWR connection to East Putney in the form of columns that once formed a flyover to the north side of the Windsor lines. I don't know when it was removed, but I assume a long time ago, but the columns still go high up between the tracks and now you can only connect to the south side via a fairly steep incline.
Something interesting: a railway branch ran into the Charlton workshops of London's Trams. The rail grooves were made wide enough so that both trams and train wagons and locos could use the trackwork within the works. Checking on Google Maps it seems that the site of the works was closed long ago and sold off to developers.
On the subject of station ownership and traffic, Ealing Broadway became a BR owned and operated station although most of the passengers were LT's. The Central line to Ealing was built by the Great Western and the Central London Rly had running powers. It was one of the few places where three aspect semaphore signals were used. The GW then laid two more tracks from North Acton junction to serve the milk depot off Wood Lane.
Are the lines alongside the Central Line that used to go through East Acton, but are now lifted? I hadn't heard about the milk depot before. (Do you know where it was exactly? I can't see it on railmaponline.) I thought that those lines were built by the GWR mainly to give it a better access to the West London Line (and so to the southeast of England) than North Pole Junction, which was always unsatisfactory. (I think I read that in the really early days it had a level crossing between the two railways rather than a bridge!) If I recall correctly, it was part of the GWR's early twentieth century attempt to shake off the nick-name "The Great Way Round", which also involved building the direct line to Birmingham, partially shared with the Great Central. That line connected with this one at North Acton, according to CartoMetro. I can't remember where I read or viewed the information, but I believe the route was originally twin tracks shared by both companies, then it was quadrupled so each could have two tracks, and later the GWR's tracks were lifted. Presumably that was after nationalisation, when it was decided that GWR could reach the WLL by looping up the North and South Western Junction railway to the LNW lines at Willesden Junction, and then picking up the WLL at its beginning. I watched a cab video of a heavy aggregates train doing just that on its way from Acton to Purley a while back, on the "DadRail" channel.
@@kgbgb3663 Doubtless the North Acton to Wood Lane section was laid to serve a variety of purposes. The later pair were on the north side of the present Central Line roads. The GWR's "New Road" from Old Oak to Aynho was joint with the Great Central between Northolt Junction and Ashendon Junction. The GC wanted an alternative to the congested Met /GC joint north of Harrow on the Hill. I'll try and find the milk depot location.
I'm old enough to remember when the stations [sic] at Ealing Broadway had separate entrances. The mainline entrance was where the station now is, but to the left as you go in and some way along the street (maybe six or a dozen shops) was the Underground entrance with the distinctive blue canopy. The stations looked totally separate from the road. They were also run separately, but there was a lockable gate connecting the LT platforms from the BR platforms. When the Tank engine hauled "Push and pull" service was arriving/departing from/to Greenford the gate was opened and a ticket collector checked you had tickets entitling you to be both sides of the internal barrier as you passed through. I was aged about 6 at the time and not yet enough of a geek to notice whether the guy was in BR or LT uniform. (And yes I'm sure it was a guy: I was a bit older before I saw a female railway worker anywhere outside of the buffet facilities) I guess the stations merged so that they could sell off the frontage for another two or three shops.
That's why I like Paris subway... There's absolutely no shared tracks in the subway each line is totally independant ( though there's service tracks that links all the lines ) And also the Paris subway was specifically built with curves and tunnels that made it impossible for normal trains to go there. ( it was a requirement actually ) It changed a bit with the RER, since there's a shared tunnel of hell for RER B and D between Chatelet-Les Halles and Gare du Nord. ( and as you say... any issue on one line cascade on the other one )... and RERs are normal trains... but their network is separate from the subway ( think Thameslink compared to the Tube ).
Japan train lines in Tokyo metropolitan share track with each other...even they are from different companies..some train even run under two company on certain lines
The Wimbledon Park East Putney line did get used a few times when the Earlsfield part of the line was closed; I strangely looked out of the window and saw these stations a few times unexpectedly on South West Trains journeys between Wimbledon and Clapham Junction, although the train didn’t stop there.
I've enjoyed these Tube videos. They've left me with some thoughts: 1. Between 1965 and 1967 as a small boy aged 7-9 I commuted from Wimbledon to Gloucester Rd where I went to school. An incredible thought now. My Saturday entertainment was to get a 'blue rover' ticket which allowed me to ride all over the network all day on a Saturday. Again, extraordinary that I was allowed to do this. Otherwise I would use my season ticket to go to South Ken at the weekends to visit the museums. - as it happens, I live in Lincolnshire now but the other day I visited my very elderly father in Wimbledon and took the Tube out there. All very reminiscent except the trains are completely different now. Some of the stations have scarcely changed. 2. I remember that the Tube carriages alternated between smoking and non-smoking: carriages 1 and 3 were non-smoking, for example. Rushing to catch a train might inadvertently involve getting into an even-numbered carriage which meant being asphyxiated and seeing the floor covered with ash and stamped-out dogends; it was utterly revolting. 3. A very particular memory was the rolling stock. Occasionally, if you were very lucky the train that rolled in would be one of the very old ones. They were distinguished by having a higher central roof section like a basilica and inside there was a lot of varnished wood and rather plusher seats. I have no idea how old they were but they belonged to another era and were much more stylish. 4. I sometimes had to change at Earls Court. I remember watching rats scuttling about among the cables along the wall opposite the platform. 5. As a child back then I was delighted when an early Doctor Who series featured the Yeti living in the Underground tunnels. I don't remember which station(s) was/were included.
Hadn't realised before that after 1916, the LSWR and then Southern Railway owned Gunnersbury-Richmond and two services ran on it but neither were their trains! (District and NLR/LMS, now Overground.) The other interesting question on these lines is compatibility of third and fourth rail electric stock, and signalling systems. Another video maybe? Especially given the problems they've had on the Elizabeth Line getting the 3 different signalling systems to talk to each other. Those problems don't arise where the route is shared but the tracks are separate, such as West Hampstead to Harrow-on-the-Hill or West Ham-Barking-Upminster.
Once upon a time District ran trains to Southend and think did specials through the Liverpool St spur to Shoreditch to run on SR metals... the Watford lines the EPB types ran on 4th rail power so they could use LT sections and my father when he worked at Wimbledon A signal box, he was in control of not just BR traffic but LT traffic in a peculiar arrangement for that signal box.
London Underground has always shared track with other tube lines and of course London Overground and National Rail including Metropolitan Line and District Line. And can handle more extra traffic and also can handle lots of commuters who use the London Underground sub-surface lines. I’ve been on at least 8 tube lines in London ever since I first went to London when I was very young. And been on the London Overground couple times.
Excellent video Jago, and very very interesting historical facts there, too. I'm still amazed at how the Metropolitan Line and Chiltern Railway share track between Harrow-on-the-hill and Amersham, and the North end of the Bakerloo Line sharing track with the Overground, is another interesting curiosity. 👍🏾👍🏾
Another curiosity on the Bakerloo Line is that to reach the ex-LNW tracks just after Queens Park the Bakerloo Line trains run inside the depot,. two of whose 4 tracks are running lines. (Same in the reverse direction.) This must be unique in the UK.
Another cracking evaluation of a fascinating concept. If people are watching this from outside the UK they must be amazed at how scruffy and mould-ridden the exteriors of most of the suburban station buildings are. This is, I understand a factor of how clean and non sulphurous the air is now that coal fires are not common. It would be sensible, and aesthetically beneficial for the buildings in question to be treated with the safe mould killer Moss Go. Thanks again. Great, clear narration with good enunciation.
Been watching a lot of your vids today. Hello, long time watcher/subscriber. 😊 Wanted to say thank you for doing videos even when you're sick and/or dealing with allergies. It is much appreciated.
Thank you Jago. That's my midweek fix taken care of. I second the comments about a video covering the delivery of rolling stock, although that might be a tad busy.
Missed you Jago.... Welcome Back! As wee Canadian boy in 1970, I do vaguely remember seeing a BR train set sharing trackage at Harrow-on-the-Hill and I thought that was brilliant! I Was to young to remember what it was , but she must have been a DMU of some sort from Marylebone.
I have watched probably most of your videos. Some twice, but don't tell anyone. But only today I realized what's different about your video's: THERE'S NO MUSIC. EVER. Now the only reason I thought about this, is because the thumbnail of this video is kinda deep and exciting and I thought that it couldn't be a Jago video. Yeah. Well, I do hope you enjoyed this random comment, thanks for all your videos, and I'm not trying to make a 'you are'-joke here.
Thank Heavens for NO MUSIC. I've almost given up on RMTransit because of the muzack. Sometimes it's bearable, sometimes it's really head-ache inducing, but he doesn't announce which it's going to be in the thumbnails! So if you start, you may be faced with an awkward choice - give up on interesting content in the middle, or live with a throbbing headache for a few hours.
The interesting yet bewildering rigmarole of it all,there was also the Great Central great way round (I believe to avoid congestion)where it branched over to share the GW Birmingham line to Princes Risborough then branched back again to Aylesbury and vice versa.This link still remains.
The line you refer to as the "GW Birmingham line" was actually called the Great Western & Great Central Joint Line. Given that fact, it's not surprising that both railway companies ran services over it... Nowadays, passenger services over it run from the GCR's terminus at Marylebone, the original connection to Paddington has been lost (although it's still theoretically possible to access the route from Paddington via the Greenford branch).
The GW&GC Joint was a nice collaborative venture. The GW wanted a shorter route to Birmingham, the GC wanted an alternative to the busy Metropolitan section, and they covered much the same tract of country. Rather than compete to try to get there first, they shared the costs, and the joint line even included the existing GW track from High Wycombe to Princes Risborough. The existence of the GW&GC joint line also made the Metropolitan less uncooperative with the GC about sharing train paths on their own line, as the GC now had an alternative.
I knew that the line between Wimbledon and Putney was shared only too well! Far to many times the so called fast train from Farnborough to Waterloo suddenly slowed down approaching Wimbledon and got diverted and then I knew that I would be arriving to work later than expected. From the busy four track line, suddenly you find your train crawling along tight curves, passing through London Underground stations and running so close to blocks of flats that you could see into people's flats. One morning I swear that I could read the special offer on a Weetabix packet on someone's kitchen table as we got held up on this section of line.
Before the Wimbledon to East Putney line was owned by London Underground (the station signs were standard BR signs and the staff wore BR uniforms) there were no issues with maintenance. Nor were there after LU became the owners - until 6 November 2017. Just north of Wimbledon Station there is a section of track connecting what is still Network Rail to the line now owned by LU, and used by the occasional trains mentioned in the video to reach Waterloo via East Putney. On that day, a train derailed on the link line when the rails came loose from their sleepers and separated, and the train dropped into the four-foot. The subsequent investigation revealed that LU thought that a 120 metre section of the link was owned and maintained by Network Rail, while Network Rail thought it was owned and maintained by LU, so that it was inspected and maintained by neither for some 23 years.
Thank you for sharing this! The idea that companies built the different lines of the underground as rail ventures to make money still boggles my mind. Insane way to organize public transport.
Double hit on this one. Normally if it isn't Charles Tyson Yerkes, It's Edward Watkin. Today we get the fun of both in one video. You might say they are sharing the track together.
A great watch - as ever - Mr. Hazard. Thank you! Living, as I do, near Banbury, may I say a "yes please" to a future video about Verney Jcn? Who, nowadays, even knows about the once second station in Banbury - Banbury Merton Street? You could visit Wirksworth and photograph one of the surviving Derby Lightweight single-coach D.M.U.'s introduced for the service between Merton Street and Bletchley.
Curiously, this took me back to younger simpler days of Grown Up (Intercity) trains & tootling local ones - with a fat controller to rule them all! Can I suggest a trip to the Isle of Sodor, maybe in late March..?
Then there's the Tyne and Wear Metro and Sheffield Super Tram with their mainline running.The Liverpool Overhead Railway had mainline race day trains to Aintree too I have read.
'What you do get!'.. A bit like 'That play what I wrote!' 'Keeping track of all this'. Jago Hazard... You have been found guilty of allegorical reference to classic comedy in a specific way.. You are therefore sentenced to serve up Video after video... Of wonderful content!
One side effect of this means that when there are Network Rail strikes (i.e. not Underground strikes) then service on the Wimbledon-East Putney branch of the District line is hugely reduced/delayed while the rest of the Tube network is unaffected. I commute from East Putney to Wimbledon, so I’m now keenly aware of the fact that this bit of line is shared!
Also timetables are a mess. Because LUL trains running on NR are technically National Rail services they have to have an NR timetables, which isn't really surprising by itself but those things are weird, because they don't show LU stations in them (they have a placeholders for some LUL stations so DMI's can show underground trains "correctly") For example District line train to Upmister from Richmond is shown on a timetable as a London Underground service to Upmister Underground calling at Kew Gardens, Gunnersbury and Upmister Underground (to which apparently the train teleports itself, because none of the intermediate stations are shown, even Barking which is managed by c2c). Bakerloo has the same issue but it's even weirder because sometimes DMI's on stations north of Queen's Park show something like "LRDDEAC" without any description, it stands for London Rd Depot which basically means that train terminates at Waterloo, but how a non train enthusiast is supposed to know? BTW, despite that section from East Putney to Wimbledon is shared it's still operated by LUL (same with Met to Amersham and Chsham), which means that it probably won't be affected by NR strikes, however Richmond branch on District and section between Queen's Park and Harrow and Wealdstone on Bakerloo are operated by NR, which means that they'll probably will be affected by NR strikes
Jago, You say Verney Junction doesn't exist. Certainly the station is no longer in use but I went to visit a mansion originally owned by a chap called Verney and the guide was telling me that Verney was so rich that he had the station,Verney Junction, built just so he could get from his mansion to London.Some of the track and level crossings and I think some,if not all the platforms are still there. I myself took a slightly less expensive option when it comes to a personal train,I moved near to a station !!
At first, the TriMet MAX lines in my hometown shared no track with the Portland Streetcar, though their networks had track connections. Now, that has changed, as the MAX Orange Line shares rail across Tillikum Crossing with the A Loop headed West-Southwest, and the B Loop headed East-Northeast. At both ends of the bridge, the services diverge immediately.
It's the poignancy of contrasting the histories of so many lost lines with my local radio traffic news describing so many hold ups on the roads into London that has me shaking my head in disbelief at what a mess we make of transport. Many years ago a lady who was recently arrived from an African country told me that "For such a small country you people spend a lot of time just travelling around in it. Why?"
London had very very few line closures compared with much of the country. It was virtually unaffected by Beeching. The only lines that have really been closed are duplicating routes, usually built just to compete with another company, and obscure branches and spurs
No one needs to know this but when I was a child I thought the London Underground was connected to the Paris Metro by the Channel tunnel. That would be the ultimate shared track scenario but I wonder if something like would ever happen in the UK say like a giant Liverpool - Manchester system?
Due to issues between Wimbledon and Clapham, I've been on a South West Trains (as it was) service from Wimbledon to Clapham via Putney on the District Line route.
The lnwr did run their own DC electric trains on the same line as the bakerloo from queen's park, from Euston to Watford from very early on, the oerlikon and Siemens stock
@@JagoHazzard One of yours or Geoffs from memory, but passenger services swapped away pretty comprehensively from Day one of central line running ( actually wonder was there a small delay while final switchover done or was it achieved overnight ( prob covered in a JE Connor note or even one of my LT Mags in an inaccessible bookcase)
Utterly stupefied, was Yerkes not mentioned once? In a video about the underground, shared track, mergedines and so forth. Shocking, simply shocking. Keep up the great work!
the Danish railroad was built on the cheap, almost entirely between 1846 and 1888, so there's a grand total of four tracks through the central city in Copenhagen. Two are for the S-trains - commuter trains - and the other two are for all other trains, and then north and south of the central part the tracks split up into their individual lines. Because of this it's not uncommon to see freight trains on the commuter lines, especially on the circle line, F, since it's the original line around Copenhagen from 1846 and it's the only way for freight trains get across the city without going through the very busy stations in the central city. This circle line connects the abandoned freight yard at Svanemøllen north of Copenhagen with the freight yard at South Harbour (which no longer functions as a harbour) and up until a few years ago half that line was strictly for freight. Another issues with this is that our commuter trains run on 1650 V DC while the main line is 25 kV AC, but both use overhead wires, so they have to use diesel locomotives to run freight trains (and whatever other odd trains) on the commuter lines.
Track sharing is meanwhile common in Japan, with most of Tokyo's metro lines directly connected to different commuter rail lines at its ends (but each line may be under a different operator using different signalling systems, track gauges & slightly different rail car size). One of the commuter rail lines by _Tokyu_ even connects Tokyo's metro to Yokohama's while another metro line connects Tokyo's 2 airports together via the _Keisei_ commuter rail @ 1 end & _Keikyu's_ @ the other. I remember being initially confused when I was waiting for a train at a _Shinjuku_ line underground metro platform & a _Keio_ commuter train showed up instead (since metro & commuter rail rolling stock can run on each other's lines so long they're directly connected to each other). Besides operating commuter rail, _Odakyu_ railway also runs regional rail service to the _Hakone_ mountain countryside & _Enoshima_ beach seaside all the way from some Tokyo underground metro stations ( _kita-Senju_ I think)
On the Wimblendon, WImbledon Parl, Southfields joint route, I've mostly experienced nation rail diverting that way on Sunday evenings/night a few times as I always find it confusing thinking I'd accidently switched to the District line.
Leyton to Ongar and Newbury Park to Woodford via Hainault, which is part of LT Central Line, was in fact owned by BR till 1971, and there was a mainline connection from Stratford to Leyton. and Newbury Park to Seven Kings and Ilford. Of course, Finsbury Park to Moorgate, which is a mainline railway, was originally part of the LT Northern Line until the Moorgate Tube Disaster. Whilst Waterloo to Bank, was original part of the Southern Railway (LSWR) prior to becoming a LT line with the advent of the 1992 tube stock. The East London Line with a connection from Shoreditch to Liverpool Street, was LT, now Overground. Also the Jubilee Line Extension, runs over the part of the trackbed of the mainline that went to North Woolwich. While the Docklands Light Railway deserves a whole mega chapter !
I was going to bring up the Central line as I distinctly remember seeing a main line goods train, early one Sunday morning, crossing the road bridge at Debden Station. Back in the 60s when I did my paper round there. I once saw a LT Steam Loco up that way too, but it is only a vague memory.
@@TheKelvincurrie Thanks Kelvin. Of course, LT steam locos do make special excursions too. For example "Steam On the Met". I have had Metropolitan No: 1 (a pannier tank) and a LT battery electric, between Upminster Depot and Upney on the LT District Line. On that occasion, LT used a BR Mark 1 coach and a non-aircon BR Mark 2 coach (2A ?). Plus LT electric locos, like No: 12 "Sarah Siddons" also make ventures over BR metals. I had her once between Windsor & Eton and Staines.
Interesting, there are tales of lift shafts that never had passenger lifts fitted - for the CSLR were not the padded cell and locos fairly short, so could be craned down a shaft ?
I had to go back and take another look at that sign off to the side at 2;37. I can't help but think "toilet for the disabled" would have been a better wording. As it is, it just makes one think, "Surely it would have been cheaper and more useful to just fix the toilet rather than put up that sign." :)
I remember waiting for an underground train at a metro station station in Seoul, South Korea, and a high-speed train being diverted through it. The station itself was above ground, and the train was travelling slowly. But it still seemed strange.
The overground seems to share a lot of track. I remember I was standing at Barking at around midnight and instead of the connection to barking riverside, a freight train came through. Was very cool though.
Lurking around my manor in Southfields/Putney again are we? I remember going to Wimbledon pre-1994 and it was very odd pulling into Network SouthEast-branded stations when there was no BR passenger service.
As always enjoyed your video. I wondered as you didn't address it if the issue with the deep level lines having a different loading gauge than the subsurface and national rail services also impacts the ability to share. In NYC the system I grew up with we have the A Division and the B Division. Again like London's system the older A division often known as the IRT (Interboro Rapid Transit) and the B Division consisting of the BMT and IND (Brooklyn Manhattan Transit and the Independent) have different loading gauges and a as a result an A division train can fit through a BMT or IND line, but the opposite is not true. Oddly in New York, the narrower train is the older system predating the first BMT lines by 15 years. Any way I was curious if that impacts any of the line sharing you discussed.
Didn't BR continue to run the odd train from Epping to Liverpool Street leaving the Central Line at Leyton into the 70s? I remember seeing a photo in a railway publication but I can't find any reference to it anywhere. There was also East Finchley to Mill Hill East. BR locos at least used to operate the Chesham branch in steam days and goods trains into Watford Met station.
Hi Jago, do you know what is being built underground when you look out the left side of a thameslink train travelling between either City thameslink and Farringdon or Farringdon and KX - one of the two (I should be more observant). It’s a huge space with lots of building lights on
Should the underground lines share more - District or H and C to Barking Riverside ? Elizabeth Line Expansion ( Riverside / Grays Line through Barking to Straford to Heathrow ? ) (?? Is Elizabeth a Tube / Could those freed up old Shenfield Units do a Barking Riverside - Liverpool Street Service ?))
I remember that you did a video about the different way that the electric lines are set out on the old Southwestern Railway mainline tracks versus the underground. I was wondering how they are set out on stretches of line that are shared between mainline electric and underground.
Whoever thought of painting Tube and then Underground trains to match their respective logos with the doors picked out in red or orange was really brilliant. A continuation of their history of graphics and architecture innovation that is not seen elsewhere in transit.
Jago needs to make a video about that, but when the D-Stock trains first came into service, they decided to keep them in naked aluminium (so they had a silver look to them).
We had a few idiots, who liked to tag trains, and then London Underground would have to blast the paint off, to try to get them back to the aluminium look. And the trains just ended up looking dirty.
At, around the same time, there were some disabled campaigners, who were protesting about the way that almost all public transport blocked them from using it.
Two big changes that TfL had to make where:
• Replacing Routemasters, with buses where wheelchair users could get on and
• Underground trains needing to have doors and bodies that were of contrasting colours.
London Underground uses red, white and blue in it's roundels and they picked those same colours, as the colours to put on the trains.
Other railway companies did also get ordered to change their door colours. But they sometimes look more like they are following the law, while TfL makes it look like it's part of the style. And it looks so awesome, it makes you think it's always been that way. (And, if the TfL trains did get tagged, they could make them look clean and new again, instead of needing to scrape the aluminium bodies.)
If Jago ever does a video, where you see each London underground train stock before and after it got the red, white and blue makeover, you will be surprised how old some of the trains look, in their original colours.
The current livery was adopted in the 1990s when the trains were refurbished. It's certainly an effective livery, more striking than the brand all-red Bus livery
There were several other colour configurations trialled (videos can be seen on UA-cam), but I believe the winning design wasn't trialled, and was actually suggested by a London Underground employee who wasn't on the design team. It's by far the most logical, as it's similar to the roundel - a blue horizontal line across a white background, with red coming in vertically.
Yes! Never thought of that!
"I'm having trouble keeping track of all this."
Subtle, but effective at putting a smile on my face. Good work Mr H!
Single or trouble track?
ha
Thank you very much JagoMeister for another upload! You are truly the unmanned station to my incredibly nervy unpaid commute! 😇
❤️ the JagoMeister
I think that may be the best 'closing metaphor' yet! And probably one we've all been able to relate to at some point in our lives...
I made that gaff once. Was late & dark, and I mistook the parking ticket machine for the train ticket one XD.
(only realized after boarding the train)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Jagomeister!
I agree ☝️ . The JagoMeister indeed!!
A video about the London underground sharing lines reminded me of a derailment that happened at Wimbledon on 6th November 2017 (at a little after 6am).
There are two tracks at Wimbledon which connect tracks maintained by London Underground and tracks maintained by Network Rail.
Without anybody realising it there was confusion about the exact location of the maintenance handover point. The result was a 120 metre (130 yard) stretch which the two groups of track workers thought each other were responsible for. This was only discovered when the train derailed in the uncared-for stretch of line.
London Underground were able to find an agreement (from 1994) stating who would look after what. It turned out that both groups of maintenance personnel were incorrect and the right point was almost equidistant between them.
At least no one was injured.
The perils of shared lines! 🙂
"...and this was all down to one man...", "YERKES", "...Watkins..", "OH!"
I remember being on a train out of waterloo going to Southampton and being very confused when we went to the right at Clapham Junction, onto the Putney branch, only to then use the curve to get back onto the main line at Wimbledon, apparently there were some engneering works on the 'fast' tracks between Earlsfield and Wimbledon, hence the diversion.
I went on a Deltic-hauled railtour in 1981 ('The Wessex Deltic') which was routed on that line too. It was interesting to see the surprised faces of the commuters waiting at Southfields and Wimbledon Park for their District Line train when a Deltic roared through. 😀
Happened to me as well. Last train of the day to Eastleigh
2 South Western Railway services per day use the District line between Wimbledon and East Putney. They are 2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo and 2L77 2312 Waterloo to Basingstoke. Plus around 18 ECS moves (Empty Coaching Stock) use that route to get to Wimbledon Park Depot without clogging up the main lines.
The very last stopping train of the night to Strawberry Hill via Wimbledon uses the line from East Putney to Wimbledon
In Berlin/ Germany, the equivalent to London's overground and the underground trains cannot share the same track, not only because different standards, but because before the law, the "overground" is a railway and the underground a tramway. Also in Berlin, where underground and tram are different networks
Though it should be noted that the S-Bahn (the aforementioned Overground equivalent) also is fairly similar to the LU, being considered a second metro network alongside the U-Bahn, and thanks to the use of 3rd rail mostly has got exclusive tracks (Germany uses overhead wires elsewhere except Hamburg) except at the stations Karow, a stop of the RB27 (which uses diesel trains), and Birkenwerder, a stop of the electrified RB20 which uses EMUs and as a side effect, the tracks there both have 3rd rail and overhead wires.
Prior to the legal distinction between a rapid transit service and a mainline railroad in the US, we used to have such mixes quite often. In fact, the narrow loading gauge of New York’s Interborough Rapid Transit and the wider track gauge in Philadelphia on the Market Frankfort Line were created specifically to discourage such connections onto their tracks.
Ironically for its first few years the IRT had a track connection to the Long Island Railroad at Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn.
On the flip side, New York’s other private subway operator, the Brooklyn Rapid Transit at the time, built up its operations by making such connections.
Until WWI and the creation of the United States Railroad Administration to temporarily nationalize the rail network, BRT trains ran on LIRR tracks to the Rockaway and LIRR trains used BRT tracks to Lower Manhattan.
When the Federal government created the USRA, they didn’t want to get into the local transit business and so declared the mainline trains were legally a distinct concept from rapid trainer trains.
Though this basically was a pile of BS since the subway continued to share tracks… WITH FREIGHT TRAINS. Thing is, the BRT built its system by buying up what had otherwise been “mainline” railroads in southern Brooklyn. One of them, the South Brooklyn Railways, legally still exists as a mainline railroad company, despite being a wholly owned subsidiary of the Transit authority.
The line ran from the waterfront in the Sunset Park neighborhood to the main subway repair shop complex, the Coney Island Yard. And to reach it, for a few blocks, it runs on the tracks of what is now the D train, between 36th street and 9th Avenue stations.
It then exited the subway and ran on the streets to Coney Island.
The section west of the linkup to the subway is still in use, as it’s one of the ways we (I’m a transit employee, train conductor) get deliveries of new equipment, as the tracks actually do connect to the mainline rail network.
My understanding is that it's "leftovers" from something like that why the PATH is considered a "railroad", under federal jurisdiction, rather than being a subway. Back in the Manhattan Transfer days it did quite a bit of sharing of trackage with PRR, and there were even PATH/PRR jointly owned rolling stock at one time.
To leave federal jurisdiction, shortly after SEPTA got the Norristown High Speed line, they severed its connections.
@@raakone I believe PATH is also like that because it basically was a mainline railroad until the Port Authority bought it and it's terminus and built the World Trade Center on top of it
@@JuneNafziger effectivley, yes. the upside is it allows PATH to use mainline rights of way. I've stood on the platform at Journal Square PATH station as a Conrail Shared Assets train passed on an unprotected side track. Literally the only thing telling you it wasn't a PATH track is no 3rd rail.
The planned extension to Newark Airport station is actually helped along by this status.
@@metropod they should takeover the RVL
@@metropod So is that why Harrison station sits practically on the Northeast Corridor? I believe there's still a connection between the subway and the LIRR on the Bay Ridge Branch, I wonder if this'll be kept on for the IBX. There are quite a few quirks with NYC's railways, such as the old NYW&B (don't know why they ever threw Boston in the name) and how it weirdly paralleled the NH practically its entire route.
I used to work at Wimbledon Park and whilst the mainline trains didn't stop to pick up customers, they did stop due to the signalling, which then was still mainline signalling. They still sometimes used slam door trains, which meant that unless I was told beforehand, I couldn't do a PA unless I happened to see one on my monitors. This was mostly happen late at night and the unfortunate customer would end up in the Wimbledon depot.
As somebody who travels from Watford Met station to Harrow On The Hill most mornings and journeys from Kenton to Watford High Street most evenings, I feel unusually well-served by the locations featured in this video! It makes my daily routes feel far more special!
The track between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham is the only example which is owned and managed by London Underground rather than Network Rail. East Putney, Southfields and Wimbledon Park stations have been London Underground stations since 1994, but the infrastructure between East Putney and Wimbledon is operated by Network Rail.
Aah, Wimbledon LUR with with the track layout with the infamous conrail gap, with "The Box" containing a heavy jumper cable 1" (to manually clamp between conrail then car shoes) to get a train back in service and passengers off-loaded (LUR - no rescue/standby Diesels).
Interesting bit about power in shared sections: In contrast to the underground, "regular" trains only use a single "third" rail on the side -- no fourth rail in the center -- for power (and the running tracks for ground). So how does this work on the same track?
According to TfL: "As of 2019, In areas where London Underground and third rail rolling stock share tracks, the centre conductor rail is electrically connected to the running rails. This still results in a 750 V voltage but in a 0 V/+750 V configuration."
"The original configuration is nominally 630 V (voltage), with a −210 V centre conductor rail and a +420 V outside conductor rail. This is the default configuration wherever deep-level tube trains operate. Beginning in 2016, sections of the sub-surface network were reconfigured to a 750 V configuration (−250 V and +500 V rails)."
I was wondering about the electrical compatibility too. So does this result in a compromise where one type of train sees less voltage than it would on it's own dedicated track?
@@althejazzman In the Underground, the usual voltage is 630 volt (+420 on the outside and -210 in the centre). In the shared sections, it used to be +630 on the outside and 0 in the centre, because the middle conductor rail is bonded to the running rails. This means that both Underground and mainline trains would be running on Underground voltage. But a few years ago it was changed, so now the shared sections have +750 V on the outer rail and 0 V on the center rail. And apparently they're also upgrading parts of the exclusively Underground lines to have 750 volt operations too, but as +500/-250 instead.
Regardless, 630 volt is within the tolerances of the mainline trains, and 750 volt is within the tolerances of the Underground trains.
That's very interesting. I had always thought that the centre rail was an earth rail only, but TfL indicate here that it can carry a substantial negative voltage. So stepping on the centre rail, as well as the outside rail, could do you a lot of damage (although both have a lower voltage compared to earth than the 750V d.c. on third rail).
@@wasmic5z Thank you for the explanation.
@@wasmic5z There is an even more extreme example at Italy's Ventimiglia station just over the border from France. French locomotives running into the station are dual voltage 25kV AC / 1500V DC, while Italian locomotives are 3000V DC. A French locomotive entering the station changes from AC to 1500V DC. A 3000V DC Italian locomotive has to tolerate 1500V DC when entering the station.
I saw a documentary some years ago on Metroland (at least 20). They wandered out to the field where Verney Junction was. Its was just about possible to see traces of the Metropolitan line joining what was the "Varsity Line" (Oxford to Cambridge) and the former link off to Buckingham to the north. What could have been, eh? However, these days Verney junction might see its railway (if not the station) re-opened in a year or two as the new East-West route reconnects Oxford and Cambridge. Whoda thought? Not Dr Beeching, certainly.
actually the Varsity Line was one of the routes that Beeching wanted to keep open to serve freight services between East Anglia and South Wales. My understanding was that the BR Board itself recommended the varsity line for closure
Actually, it's the Government. Beeching only had his name slapped to the cuts to take away blame from the Government. Some things never change....
I ended up on a South bound SWT Train that was diverted onto the Tube Lines into Wimbledon one Sunday for reasons unknown in late 2001, so it has happened outside of the Parliamentary Train Schedule.
That’s because it’s not a Parliamentary service. It’s used for empty stock and diversions, the latter because it provides better access to Wimbledon depot. The early and very late services are to retain route knowledge for the drivers and guards: ie without some regularly rostered trains there wouldn’t be enough drivers who knew the route when engineering diversions are needed.
The sharing of tracks with mainline trains is one of the things that fascinates me about the London Underground.
Thanks Jago! Your picture of Gunnersbury station reminded me that my family frequently used Gunnersbury to take the NLR to go Hampstead in the 1960s. I never understood why all the signage at Gunnersbury were Southern green, and yet no southern trains used the line to Richmond at that time. Now I understand the link to LSWR. So thank you!
Wow, such a full on episode. So many facts my brain hurts. Brilliant 👏👏👍😀
The Rotterdam metro also shares tracks; Between Schiedam and Vlaardingen Oost (lines A and B), the track is shared with occasional cargo trains (the line uses a former mainline railway, and some cargo trains still need to use it). And between the stations Leidschenveen and The Hague Laan van NOI on line E, the track is shared with trams from The Hague tramlines 3 and 4 (all stations being equiped with platforms at two heights; high for metro's, low for trams).
It's still impresses me how the London Underground was mostly developed out of (competing) mainlines and not out of trams to the point where the Underground (particularly the Metropolitan Line) has been more compared to the S-Bahn of Berlin than its U-Bahn. Conversely, it shouldn't be too surprising to find mainline railways at some places due to this history.
This video also made me realise that Frankfurt has plans to extend its U-Bahn, with inspiration of Karlsruhe due to the different voltages of both systems, to run with the mainline, even replacing some lines (most notably, the Sodener Bahn, a former S-Bahn line and current RB11). The S-Bahn, which is developed out of normal railways, also shares track with the mainline, though that one isn't too special because many other post-WWII system do this as well (dedicated tracks are expensive, for that matter) and is mostly more of a disadvantage than a curiousity (no level boarding, congestion). There still is a case where a train drives on dedicated S-Bahn tracks and that's within Darmstadt, between Arheiling and the main station, where the route of the RB82 crosses the S-Bahn tracks and runs on them for around 100 metres.
Good grief Jago. Your videos are getting ever more challenging. I definitely have to have lie down after this one.
I was at Ruislip last week and made time to sit and watch, and admire, the Metropolitan and Piccadilly trains sharing the tracks there
There's an interesting relic of the old LSWR connection to East Putney in the form of columns that once formed a flyover to the north side of the Windsor lines. I don't know when it was removed, but I assume a long time ago, but the columns still go high up between the tracks and now you can only connect to the south side via a fairly steep incline.
I have two words for the confusion (however amusing) this brings... "Mornington Crescent"
I last worked at the older Watford Jct. in 1967 but we still called the dc the 'New Line'; but at that date it was only half a century old.
Something interesting: a railway branch ran into the Charlton workshops of London's Trams. The rail grooves were made wide enough so that both trams and train wagons and locos could use the trackwork within the works.
Checking on Google Maps it seems that the site of the works was closed long ago and sold off to developers.
On the subject of station ownership and traffic, Ealing Broadway became a BR owned and operated station although most of the passengers were LT's. The Central line to Ealing was built by the Great Western and the Central London Rly had running powers. It was one of the few places where three aspect semaphore signals were used. The GW then laid two more tracks from North Acton junction to serve the milk depot off Wood Lane.
Are the lines alongside the Central Line that used to go through East Acton, but are now lifted? I hadn't heard about the milk depot before. (Do you know where it was exactly? I can't see it on railmaponline.)
I thought that those lines were built by the GWR mainly to give it a better access to the West London Line (and so to the southeast of England) than North Pole Junction, which was always unsatisfactory. (I think I read that in the really early days it had a level crossing between the two railways rather than a bridge!) If I recall correctly, it was part of the GWR's early twentieth century attempt to shake off the nick-name "The Great Way Round", which also involved building the direct line to Birmingham, partially shared with the Great Central. That line connected with this one at North Acton, according to CartoMetro.
I can't remember where I read or viewed the information, but I believe the route was originally twin tracks shared by both companies, then it was quadrupled so each could have two tracks, and later the GWR's tracks were lifted. Presumably that was after nationalisation, when it was decided that GWR could reach the WLL by looping up the North and South Western Junction railway to the LNW lines at Willesden Junction, and then picking up the WLL at its beginning. I watched a cab video of a heavy aggregates train doing just that on its way from Acton to Purley a while back, on the "DadRail" channel.
@@kgbgb3663 Doubtless the North Acton to Wood Lane section was laid to serve a variety of purposes. The later pair were on the north side of the present Central Line roads.
The GWR's "New Road" from Old Oak to Aynho was joint with the Great Central between Northolt Junction and Ashendon Junction. The GC wanted an alternative to the congested Met /GC joint north of Harrow on the Hill.
I'll try and find the milk depot location.
@@RogersRamblings That would be lovely if you can, but don't put yourself out for my sake.
Many thanks!
I'm old enough to remember when the stations [sic] at Ealing Broadway had separate entrances. The mainline entrance was where the station now is, but to the left as you go in and some way along the street (maybe six or a dozen shops) was the Underground entrance with the distinctive blue canopy.
The stations looked totally separate from the road. They were also run separately, but there was a lockable gate connecting the LT platforms from the BR platforms. When the Tank engine hauled "Push and pull" service was arriving/departing from/to Greenford the gate was opened and a ticket collector checked you had tickets entitling you to be both sides of the internal barrier as you passed through. I was aged about 6 at the time and not yet enough of a geek to notice whether the guy was in BR or LT uniform. (And yes I'm sure it was a guy: I was a bit older before I saw a female railway worker anywhere outside of the buffet facilities)
I guess the stations merged so that they could sell off the frontage for another two or three shops.
@@trueriver1950 I also remember separate stations. The District Station building is still in situ but the booking hall is occupied by a shop.
"KEEPING TRACK OF ALL THIS" This is what keeps us coming back for more!
That's why I like Paris subway... There's absolutely no shared tracks in the subway each line is totally independant ( though there's service tracks that links all the lines )
And also the Paris subway was specifically built with curves and tunnels that made it impossible for normal trains to go there. ( it was a requirement actually )
It changed a bit with the RER, since there's a shared tunnel of hell for RER B and D between Chatelet-Les Halles and Gare du Nord. ( and as you say... any issue on one line cascade on the other one )... and RERs are normal trains... but their network is separate from the subway ( think Thameslink compared to the Tube ).
Japan train lines in Tokyo metropolitan share track with each other...even they are from different companies..some train even run under two company on certain lines
Thanks for all your hard work creating first class videos.
The Wimbledon Park East Putney line did get used a few times when the Earlsfield part of the line was closed; I strangely looked out of the window and saw these stations a few times unexpectedly on South West Trains journeys between Wimbledon and Clapham Junction, although the train didn’t stop there.
I've enjoyed these Tube videos. They've left me with some thoughts:
1. Between 1965 and 1967 as a small boy aged 7-9 I commuted from Wimbledon to Gloucester Rd where I went to school. An incredible thought now. My Saturday entertainment was to get a 'blue rover' ticket which allowed me to ride all over the network all day on a Saturday. Again, extraordinary that I was allowed to do this. Otherwise I would use my season ticket to go to South Ken at the weekends to visit the museums.
- as it happens, I live in Lincolnshire now but the other day I visited my very elderly father in Wimbledon and took the Tube out there. All very reminiscent except the trains are completely different now. Some of the stations have scarcely changed.
2. I remember that the Tube carriages alternated between smoking and non-smoking: carriages 1 and 3 were non-smoking, for example. Rushing to catch a train might inadvertently involve getting into an even-numbered carriage which meant being asphyxiated and seeing the floor covered with ash and stamped-out dogends; it was utterly revolting.
3. A very particular memory was the rolling stock. Occasionally, if you were very lucky the train that rolled in would be one of the very old ones. They were distinguished by having a higher central roof section like a basilica and inside there was a lot of varnished wood and rather plusher seats. I have no idea how old they were but they belonged to another era and were much more stylish.
4. I sometimes had to change at Earls Court. I remember watching rats scuttling about among the cables along the wall opposite the platform.
5. As a child back then I was delighted when an early Doctor Who series featured the Yeti living in the Underground tunnels. I don't remember which station(s) was/were included.
Hadn't realised before that after 1916, the LSWR and then Southern Railway owned Gunnersbury-Richmond and two services ran on it but neither were their trains! (District and NLR/LMS, now Overground.) The other interesting question on these lines is compatibility of third and fourth rail electric stock, and signalling systems. Another video maybe? Especially given the problems they've had on the Elizabeth Line getting the 3 different signalling systems to talk to each other. Those problems don't arise where the route is shared but the tracks are separate, such as West Hampstead to Harrow-on-the-Hill or West Ham-Barking-Upminster.
Once upon a time District ran trains to Southend and think did specials through the Liverpool St spur to Shoreditch to run on SR metals... the Watford lines the EPB types ran on 4th rail power so they could use LT sections and my father when he worked at Wimbledon A signal box, he was in control of not just BR traffic but LT traffic in a peculiar arrangement for that signal box.
London Underground has always shared track with other tube lines and of course London Overground and National Rail including Metropolitan Line and District Line. And can handle more extra traffic and also can handle lots of commuters who use the London Underground sub-surface lines.
I’ve been on at least 8 tube lines in London ever since I first went to London when I was very young. And been on the London Overground couple times.
Excellent video Jago, and very very interesting historical facts there, too. I'm still amazed at how the Metropolitan Line and Chiltern Railway share track between Harrow-on-the-hill and Amersham, and the North end of the Bakerloo Line sharing track with the Overground, is another interesting curiosity. 👍🏾👍🏾
Another curiosity on the Bakerloo Line is that to reach the ex-LNW tracks just after Queens Park the Bakerloo Line trains run inside the depot,. two of whose 4 tracks are running lines. (Same in the reverse direction.) This must be unique in the UK.
Another cracking evaluation of a fascinating concept. If people are watching this from outside the UK they must be amazed at how scruffy and mould-ridden the exteriors of most of the suburban station buildings are. This is, I understand a factor of how clean and non sulphurous the air is now that coal fires are not common. It would be sensible, and aesthetically beneficial for the buildings in question to be treated with the safe mould killer Moss Go. Thanks again. Great, clear narration with good enunciation.
Been watching a lot of your vids today.
Hello, long time watcher/subscriber. 😊
Wanted to say thank you for doing videos even when you're sick and/or dealing with allergies. It is much appreciated.
Great video again. Love the linguistics as always.
Thank you Jago. That's my midweek fix taken care of. I second the comments about a video covering the delivery of rolling stock, although that might be a tad busy.
Missed you Jago.... Welcome Back! As wee Canadian boy in 1970, I do vaguely remember seeing a BR train set sharing trackage at Harrow-on-the-Hill and I thought that was brilliant! I Was to young to remember what it was , but she must have been a DMU of some sort from Marylebone.
I am very glad to hear you still have many more tails from the tube coming down the line! :]
I have watched probably most of your videos. Some twice, but don't tell anyone. But only today I realized what's different about your video's: THERE'S NO MUSIC. EVER.
Now the only reason I thought about this, is because the thumbnail of this video is kinda deep and exciting and I thought that it couldn't be a Jago video. Yeah.
Well, I do hope you enjoyed this random comment, thanks for all your videos, and I'm not trying to make a 'you are'-joke here.
Thank Heavens for NO MUSIC. I've almost given up on RMTransit because of the muzack. Sometimes it's bearable, sometimes it's really head-ache inducing, but he doesn't announce which it's going to be in the thumbnails! So if you start, you may be faced with an awkward choice - give up on interesting content in the middle, or live with a throbbing headache for a few hours.
And that is a Very Good Thing, 😊😊,🇳🇿says LeviNZ
Always interesting! Unravelling it all is what makes your videos so addictive, especially for an old timer. THANKS!
The interesting yet bewildering rigmarole of it all,there was also the Great Central great way round (I believe to avoid congestion)where it branched over to share the GW Birmingham line to Princes Risborough then branched back again to Aylesbury and vice versa.This link still remains.
The line you refer to as the "GW Birmingham line" was actually called the Great Western & Great Central Joint Line. Given that fact, it's not surprising that both railway companies ran services over it... Nowadays, passenger services over it run from the GCR's terminus at Marylebone, the original connection to Paddington has been lost (although it's still theoretically possible to access the route from Paddington via the Greenford branch).
The GW&GC Joint was a nice collaborative venture. The GW wanted a shorter route to Birmingham, the GC wanted an alternative to the busy Metropolitan section, and they covered much the same tract of country. Rather than compete to try to get there first, they shared the costs, and the joint line even included the existing GW track from High Wycombe to Princes Risborough. The existence of the GW&GC joint line also made the Metropolitan less uncooperative with the GC about sharing train paths on their own line, as the GC now had an alternative.
I knew that the line between Wimbledon and Putney was shared only too well! Far to many times the so called fast train from Farnborough to Waterloo suddenly slowed down approaching Wimbledon and got diverted and then I knew that I would be arriving to work later than expected. From the busy four track line, suddenly you find your train crawling along tight curves, passing through London Underground stations and running so close to blocks of flats that you could see into people's flats. One morning I swear that I could read the special offer on a Weetabix packet on someone's kitchen table as we got held up on this section of line.
"And that's where we are today, the Underground and the Overground wombling free"
I was totally expecting a droll wombles reference at that point. Disappointing Mr Jago!
I know what a sign pointing to a 'disable toilet' means, but it sounds like it should mean, this way to a toilet that doesn't work.
Before the Wimbledon to East Putney line was owned by London Underground (the station signs were standard BR signs and the staff wore BR uniforms) there were no issues with maintenance. Nor were there after LU became the owners - until 6 November 2017. Just north of Wimbledon Station there is a section of track connecting what is still Network Rail to the line now owned by LU, and used by the occasional trains mentioned in the video to reach Waterloo via East Putney. On that day, a train derailed on the link line when the rails came loose from their sleepers and separated, and the train dropped into the four-foot. The subsequent investigation revealed that LU thought that a 120 metre section of the link was owned and maintained by Network Rail, while Network Rail thought it was owned and maintained by LU, so that it was inspected and maintained by neither for some 23 years.
Thank you for sharing this! The idea that companies built the different lines of the underground as rail ventures to make money still boggles my mind. Insane way to organize public transport.
Double hit on this one. Normally if it isn't Charles Tyson Yerkes, It's Edward Watkin. Today we get the fun of both in one video. You might say they are sharing the track together.
as always a fasinating video!
I always enjoy your videos and the work you put into them spills out everytime I press play!
Now we need a video about those "parliamentary trains"!
A great watch - as ever - Mr. Hazard. Thank you! Living, as I do, near Banbury, may I say a "yes please" to a future video about Verney Jcn? Who, nowadays, even knows about the once second station in Banbury - Banbury Merton Street? You could visit Wirksworth and photograph one of the surviving Derby Lightweight single-coach D.M.U.'s introduced for the service between Merton Street and Bletchley.
I remember going to the Wimbledon section of the District and it having NSE branding and stations operated by BR while the trains were District.
I recognised Gunnersbury Station as soon as the Video started.
Got to be the Only Tube station on the network that is, essentially, a Car Park??
All good stuff, Mr H. As indeed we have come to expect. Thank you. Simon T
Curiously, this took me back to younger simpler days of Grown Up (Intercity) trains & tootling local ones - with a fat controller to rule them all! Can I suggest a trip to the Isle of Sodor, maybe in late March..?
Then there's the Tyne and Wear Metro and Sheffield Super Tram with their mainline running.The Liverpool Overhead Railway had mainline race day trains to Aintree too I have read.
'What you do get!'..
A bit like
'That play what I wrote!'
'Keeping track of all this'.
Jago Hazard...
You have been found guilty of allegorical
reference to classic comedy in a specific way..
You are therefore sentenced to serve up
Video after video...
Of wonderful content!
One side effect of this means that when there are Network Rail strikes (i.e. not Underground strikes) then service on the Wimbledon-East Putney branch of the District line is hugely reduced/delayed while the rest of the Tube network is unaffected. I commute from East Putney to Wimbledon, so I’m now keenly aware of the fact that this bit of line is shared!
Also timetables are a mess. Because LUL trains running on NR are technically National Rail services they have to have an NR timetables, which isn't really surprising by itself but those things are weird, because they don't show LU stations in them (they have a placeholders for some LUL stations so DMI's can show underground trains "correctly") For example District line train to Upmister from Richmond is shown on a timetable as a London Underground service to Upmister Underground calling at Kew Gardens, Gunnersbury and Upmister Underground (to which apparently the train teleports itself, because none of the intermediate stations are shown, even Barking which is managed by c2c). Bakerloo has the same issue but it's even weirder because sometimes DMI's on stations north of Queen's Park show something like "LRDDEAC" without any description, it stands for London Rd Depot which basically means that train terminates at Waterloo, but how a non train enthusiast is supposed to know?
BTW, despite that section from East Putney to Wimbledon is shared it's still operated by LUL (same with Met to Amersham and Chsham), which means that it probably won't be affected by NR strikes, however Richmond branch on District and section between Queen's Park and Harrow and Wealdstone on Bakerloo are operated by NR, which means that they'll probably will be affected by NR strikes
Jago,
You say Verney Junction doesn't exist. Certainly the station is no longer in use but I went to visit a mansion originally owned by a chap called Verney and the guide was telling me that Verney was so rich that he had the station,Verney Junction, built just so he could get from his mansion to London.Some of the track and level crossings and I think some,if not all the platforms are still there.
I myself took a slightly less expensive option when it comes to a personal train,I moved near to a station !!
I believe you could read from a post code list and I would love it.
This is going back on track
Another informative video, well done Jago
I appreciate the maps Jago, thanks.
5:10 The East Putney to Wimbledon line spent over...SQUIRREL!!!
Well spotted. As a cat I suppose you would be quick to see it.
At first, the TriMet MAX lines in my hometown shared no track with the Portland Streetcar, though their networks had track connections. Now, that has changed, as the MAX Orange Line shares rail across Tillikum Crossing with the A Loop headed West-Southwest, and the B Loop headed East-Northeast. At both ends of the bridge, the services diverge immediately.
It's the poignancy of contrasting the histories of so many lost lines with my local radio traffic news describing so many hold ups on the roads into London that has me shaking my head in disbelief at what a mess we make of transport. Many years ago a lady who was recently arrived from an African country told me that "For such a small country you people spend a lot of time just travelling around in it. Why?"
London had very very few line closures compared with much of the country. It was virtually unaffected by Beeching. The only lines that have really been closed are duplicating routes, usually built just to compete with another company, and obscure branches and spurs
No one needs to know this but when I was a child I thought the London Underground was connected to the Paris Metro by the Channel tunnel. That would be the ultimate shared track scenario but I wonder if something like would ever happen in the UK say like a giant Liverpool - Manchester system?
7:32
ME: (lifting my glass to drink)
Jago: ... Edward Watkin.
ME: (putting down my glass)
Due to issues between Wimbledon and Clapham, I've been on a South West Trains (as it was) service from Wimbledon to Clapham via Putney on the District Line route.
The lnwr did run their own DC electric trains on the same line as the bakerloo from queen's park, from Euston to Watford from very early on, the oerlikon and Siemens stock
Of which one is preserved at the NRM, next to some of the other engines we saw in today's video.
I think we mentioned Post Hainualt Loop on the Central some Eastern Region trains ran for goods purposes from Ilford ?
I think you are correct about this. Maybe another video?
@@JagoHazzard One of yours or Geoffs from memory, but passenger services swapped away pretty comprehensively from Day one of central line running ( actually wonder was there a small delay while final switchover done or was it achieved overnight ( prob covered in a JE Connor note or even one of my LT Mags in an inaccessible bookcase)
@@JagoHazzard Did the Met binliners (ash and waste wagons ) from Neasden when hauled by their steam locos run beyond Aylesbury ( Wendover ? )
Utterly stupefied, was Yerkes not mentioned once? In a video about the underground, shared track, mergedines and so forth. Shocking, simply shocking. Keep up the great work!
Geoff Marshall did a video about the line at East Putney, where he travels on the parliamentary service
the Danish railroad was built on the cheap, almost entirely between 1846 and 1888, so there's a grand total of four tracks through the central city in Copenhagen. Two are for the S-trains - commuter trains - and the other two are for all other trains, and then north and south of the central part the tracks split up into their individual lines. Because of this it's not uncommon to see freight trains on the commuter lines, especially on the circle line, F, since it's the original line around Copenhagen from 1846 and it's the only way for freight trains get across the city without going through the very busy stations in the central city. This circle line connects the abandoned freight yard at Svanemøllen north of Copenhagen with the freight yard at South Harbour (which no longer functions as a harbour) and up until a few years ago half that line was strictly for freight. Another issues with this is that our commuter trains run on 1650 V DC while the main line is 25 kV AC, but both use overhead wires, so they have to use diesel locomotives to run freight trains (and whatever other odd trains) on the commuter lines.
"We largely have one man to thank for that"
here we go, ready to take a shot...
"Edward Watkin"
oh, nevermind
I believe the SWR services through east Putney is for route knowledge, it also links to Wimbledon depot
Track sharing is meanwhile common in Japan, with most of Tokyo's metro lines directly connected to different commuter rail lines at its ends (but each line may be under a different operator using different signalling systems, track gauges & slightly different rail car size). One of the commuter rail lines by _Tokyu_ even connects Tokyo's metro to Yokohama's while another metro line connects Tokyo's 2 airports together via the _Keisei_ commuter rail @ 1 end & _Keikyu's_ @ the other. I remember being initially confused when I was waiting for a train at a _Shinjuku_ line underground metro platform & a _Keio_ commuter train showed up instead (since metro & commuter rail rolling stock can run on each other's lines so long they're directly connected to each other). Besides operating commuter rail, _Odakyu_ railway also runs regional rail service to the _Hakone_ mountain countryside & _Enoshima_ beach seaside all the way from some Tokyo underground metro stations ( _kita-Senju_ I think)
On the Wimblendon, WImbledon Parl, Southfields joint route, I've mostly experienced nation rail diverting that way on Sunday evenings/night a few times as I always find it confusing thinking I'd accidently switched to the District line.
Leyton to Ongar and Newbury Park to Woodford via Hainault, which is part of LT Central Line, was in fact owned by BR till 1971, and there was a mainline connection from Stratford to Leyton. and Newbury Park to Seven Kings and Ilford. Of course, Finsbury Park to Moorgate, which is a mainline railway, was originally part of the LT Northern Line until the Moorgate Tube Disaster. Whilst Waterloo to Bank, was original part of the Southern Railway (LSWR) prior to becoming a LT line with the advent of the 1992 tube stock. The East London Line with a connection from Shoreditch to Liverpool Street, was LT, now Overground. Also the Jubilee Line Extension, runs over the part of the trackbed of the mainline that went to North Woolwich. While the Docklands Light Railway deserves a whole mega chapter !
I was going to bring up the Central line as I distinctly remember seeing a main line goods train, early one Sunday morning, crossing the road bridge at Debden Station. Back in the 60s when I did my paper round there. I once saw a LT Steam Loco up that way too, but it is only a vague memory.
@@TheKelvincurrie Thanks Kelvin. Of course, LT steam locos do make special excursions too. For example "Steam On the Met". I have had Metropolitan No: 1 (a pannier tank) and a LT battery electric, between Upminster Depot and Upney on the LT District Line. On that occasion, LT used a BR Mark 1 coach and a non-aircon BR Mark 2 coach (2A ?). Plus LT electric locos, like No: 12 "Sarah Siddons" also make ventures over BR metals. I had her once between Windsor & Eton and Staines.
I used to live by Wimbledon Park a few years back and I remember being so confused seeing a non underground train head south!
Thank you again Jago; fascinating as usual; ever thought of looking at the early years and how rolling stock got onto rails under the city?
Interesting, there are tales of lift shafts that never had passenger lifts fitted - for the CSLR were not the padded cell and locos fairly short, so could be craned down a shaft ?
Gotta love that thumbnail. As usual, great video Jago 👍
I went to London recently and travelled on the District Line. Hated it! Switched to the Bakerloo. Loved it!🤩🤩
Coola
A lot of people usually hate the bakerloo line. But I don't.
The timing of this video is spooky, I was literally googling pictures of Mainline trains at East Putney earlier today to show my colleague.
I had to go back and take another look at that sign off to the side at 2;37. I can't help but think "toilet for the disabled" would have been a better wording. As it is, it just makes one think, "Surely it would have been cheaper and more useful to just fix the toilet rather than put up that sign." :)
I remember waiting for an underground train at a metro station station in Seoul, South Korea, and a high-speed train being diverted through it. The station itself was above ground, and the train was travelling slowly. But it still seemed strange.
I don't think I've ever waited 5 minutes for a tube train. It's usually more like 10-15, if the trains are even running that day.
That was really interesting. Thank you for posting.
The overground seems to share a lot of track. I remember I was standing at Barking at around midnight and instead of the connection to barking riverside, a freight train came through. Was very cool though.
Lurking around my manor in Southfields/Putney again are we? I remember going to Wimbledon pre-1994 and it was very odd pulling into Network SouthEast-branded stations when there was no BR passenger service.
As always enjoyed your video. I wondered as you didn't address it if the issue with the deep level lines having a different loading gauge than the subsurface and national rail services also impacts the ability to share. In NYC the system I grew up with we have the A Division and the B Division. Again like London's system the older A division often known as the IRT (Interboro Rapid Transit) and the B Division consisting of the BMT and IND (Brooklyn Manhattan Transit and the Independent) have different loading gauges and a as a result an A division train can fit through a BMT or IND line, but the opposite is not true. Oddly in New York, the narrower train is the older system predating the first BMT lines by 15 years. Any way I was curious if that impacts any of the line sharing you discussed.
I hope you're feeling much better now, Jago! I know you probably recorded this weeks ago, but either way, look after yourself.
I wonder how many times the word “portentously” is used on UA-cam 😜
Very enjoyable with a lot of information
Didn't BR continue to run the odd train from Epping to Liverpool Street leaving the Central Line at Leyton into the 70s? I remember seeing a photo in a railway publication but I can't find any reference to it anywhere. There was also East Finchley to Mill Hill East. BR locos at least used to operate the Chesham branch in steam days and goods trains into Watford Met station.
Hi Jago, do you know what is being built underground when you look out the left side of a thameslink train travelling between either City thameslink and Farringdon or Farringdon and KX - one of the two (I should be more observant). It’s a huge space with lots of building lights on
I believe it’s rolling stock sidings.
Should the underground lines share more - District or H and C to Barking Riverside ? Elizabeth Line Expansion ( Riverside / Grays Line through Barking to Straford to Heathrow ? ) (?? Is Elizabeth a Tube / Could those freed up old Shenfield Units do a Barking Riverside - Liverpool Street Service ?))
"Is Elizabeth a Tube" no.
I remember that you did a video about the different way that the electric lines are set out on the old Southwestern Railway mainline tracks versus the underground. I was wondering how they are set out on stretches of line that are shared between mainline electric and underground.
Very educational. I love it!!