Excellent explanation and has changed my mind about raising the gearing in my modern Honda CBF to give what many in the various forums suggest will achieve a “more relaxed” cruising speed.
I totally agree with you Paul. My best mate Scotty (from Peterhead) who contracted you a long time ago, tried a bigger gearbox sprocket on his 350 Bullet, which didn’t help (in fact made it worse). I’ve gone from a 15 to a 16 tooth sprocket on my Super Meteor 650, and it gives me a less “buzzy” cruising ride at 70mph. With the lesser cc, it gives you less scope in my opinion. Manufacturers do their testing, and I guess what they come up with, is the best result. In my case, I chose to cruise at a lower rpm. There’s no right or wrong, just what you prefer. Keep up the good work on your channel which I’m pleased is growing.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You just solved a riddle that had been challenging me for a while. I had bought a used Classic 500 that seemed to strain a bit around 60 mph. In the paperwork I got with the bike was a list of all the modifications done to the bike. A new larger sprocket was put onto it. Now, I may have the solution.
I did something similar, I went 2 teeth down on the rear sprocket of my 2020 500 Efi. That should equal to appx 2/3 of going up 1 tooth in front. I think it's a great solution. I can still pot around, but also enjoy less vibrations at 80 kmh. 😍As for the obsession with the so called "Dug-dug", I avoid it like the plague. These engines are happy to be revved, trying to make it sound like an old trawler will ruin the engine.
Good point, well explained and its exactly why I won't be changing the gearing on my AJS, bearing in mind that it has to haul my bulk through the Northumbrian gales.
I geared up my triumph 650 and it pinked so I started getting increasingly large main jets. Obviously that didn’t help but this was 1982 and I was 20 and the internet couldn’t help. Take a standard old bike or Landrover and start messing with gears or suspension or motor tuning and you may gain something but at something else’s expense. The factory standard is usually the best compromise available. Mum knows best!
Thanks Paul, I'm glad an expert confirms what I have concluded after my so far limited experience on my Bullet 500 EFI. I would say chugging along at 50-55mph in top gear is far more relaxing and efficient than struggling up to 60mph+ and then constantly changing gear every time you reach a bit of a hill, slow down for a bend or get hit by the backdraught of a wagon going the other way. After decades of producing bikes I'll trust RE knows how to gear them optimally, and the default speed limit will soon be 50mph anyway!
A good compromise is to gear them up but also fit the close ratio gearbox sprockets. As long as it's got enough puff to pull away cleanly in first, you can take advantage of any increase in top speed the higher gearing might give you but with the option of riding in third without the engine screaming.
Great explanation Paul. I use the same analogy with the bicycle gears and peddling to those RE owners here in Australia. They are fascinated with low rpm running trying to gear them so tall so they barely make it past 3500rpm at 60mph laboring the buggery out of them. When tuning my GT535 I found going a lower gearing by 1 tooth from the stock 18 to a 17 tooth with the peaky power delivery of Hitchcocks cams made the bike only accelerate harder and also gain higher top speed allowing the engine to "rev out" in top gear. The 18 tooth with the Peaky cams was just not the right combination. Would make the engine labor before the cams would come "on song". I feel even now just one or 2 more teeth on the rear sprocket would be the ticket. As for the older 500 Bullets I stand by the 17 and 18 tooth with a somewhat stock engine/cams depending on their use and a tuned 535 and 5 speed only then I like the 19 tooth. Especially in my area of Australia where its mostly highways.
On my tuned '54 350 , I raised the gearing by one tooth to great advantage, so was greedy and tried another tooth. At first all seemed good until I got on the motorway at 65 ish, I couldn't get past the bow wave of the waggons. 😣
You are Correct.... but only when your dealing with low horsepower ! in low horsepower motorcycles you can "OVER GEAR IT" but on the higher horsepower machines that is less likely to happen.... for instance a 8.5hp honda 90cc back in the 1960's could barely reach 60mph... I changed the gearing so I could cruise at 60mph with that bike but on hills I did have to shift down, some times twice just to get up them.... later with a much bigger machine I was dismayed at the BUZZ i was getting at freeway speeds.... I geared it up to get the RPM down and that worked great.... recently I got a 2012 Ninja 250 it was geared so low I had to shift 3 times before I reached 30mph ! I changed both sprockets on it and finally got it right for my type of riding a huge 16 tooth in the front and a 43 tooth in the rear..... and at 70mph the bike is turning about half the RPM's that it used to... but keep in mind this bike loves the RPM where it was at 9,000 RPM before doing 70mph now is around 7,000 rpm but if I want to I can still get to 9000 rpm as long as it's not a steep hill..... i have to shift down for that.... and that is how it should be.... not rapped out to 9,000 RPM all the time ! gearing up a bike has many advantages ! most bikes are geared too low to be of any use on todays highways especially if they are older vintage machines my 1977 Triumph 750 doesn't need any changes to the gearing at all and I can accelerate on any hill on the freeway without shifting down if I want... so the power is there.... but the Ninja can do that too if I shift down. gearing the ninja UP changed the nature of that machine dramatically, and for the good. on a small motorcycle that you want to be able to go faster on you may want to gear it up because it may well loose power on the hills..... but that is what the transmition is for....just shift down ! but in normal riding you will be doing it faster.... I know because I did it !
Very well explained Paul. I think sometimes people want a cheap "improvement" to their bike and a sprocket change is cheap and simple. ( Never mind the team of engineers with years of experience and expertise who designed it) 😂
Yes indeed.Before computer control and automatic transmissions, big lorries,running somewhere around 14/15L displacement,19:1-21:1 compression, with a turbocharger,had a pyrometer,to measure cylinder head temperature. This let the driver know if the combustion chamber (head) was overheating. Generally you have a 10 speed manual gearbox,and with a modicum of experience,you knew when to downshift,when pulling a hill,loaded,and really didn't need a pyrometer. I'm 62, been driving truck 40 years,and riding even longer.I would not go more than 1 tooth up or down,from stock,and yeah, I thought I knew better too,in my younger day. The factory gearing is the optimal gearing.Lugging the engine is rarely a good thing. Camming and ignition timing are based on factory gearing.
Hi Paul I've got a tuned 350 now. . . I have a 16t but with a 400x18 rear tyre . . . I was thinking of decreasing the gearbox sprocket to 15 because of the taller tyre. . . .not yet run it up in its turned state as I've found she's got a stripped sump nut. . .
Hello Paul, out of interest I would like to ask you a question: Don't all motorcycles in the UK have to go to the MOT and what is tested at the MOT? Here in Germany it would be unthinkable to drive around on a motorcycle without working lights. Even the change in the gear ratio of the chain drive would have to be entered into the vehicle registration certificate by an expert. The same applies to rear-view mirrors, etc. Of course, only those parts that have the corresponding test marks are permitted. In Germany, all vehicles that require registration must undergo a general inspection every two years. For trucks and vehicles used to transport passengers, sometimes even an annual safety inspection is carried out.
Hi Harald - and I thought our system was strict! Here, machines over 40 years old do not require an mot any more, but otherwise it is every year. Vehicles without any lights can be used on our roads in the hours of daylight, which are specified and different for each day of the year, and using such machines 'out of hours' can result in penalties for a user.
Far too many people fail to have their bike engines turning over quickly enough when they grab a large handful of throttle. The result is damage to gears, bearings and sometimes cases. Over gearing just worsens the situation. HD Sportsters and BSA B40s are particularly susceptible to damage as their gearboxes cannot handle much torque, but are OK if the revs are used. Think Geoff Smith, he did not lug his B40.
So many variables there, such as terrain, skill levels and if any road miles are also envisaged. The trials wide ratio gearbox conversion lowering the first 3 gears and leaving top as it is might be worth considering, as well as going down by 1 tooth or more on the gearbox sprocket.
@@paulhenshaw4514 thanks Paul it has trails ratios in the box apparently definitely geared for trials with 13 tooth gearbox sprocket and rear is 54 teeth
Hi paul, recently (2 weeks back), spark plug hole of my 1989 bullet 350 got damaged and every thread got slipped, I got it fixed with my nearest mechanic with helicoils sleeve, but I noticed something odd with my engine timing right away when I picked my bike. So I came home and checked the timing, it was 3mm after TDC. I don't know why my mechanic did this, but the engine thump was very heavy and strong with that timing setup. Should I keep it as it is for few hundred miles or should I go to the regular 0.8 mm before TDC?
Both the Indian gearing (17 / 38) and Redditch gearing (21 / 46) are very similar, at 2.235 : 1 and 2.190 : 1 respectively. Though if the Indian engine gives a similar output to the Redditch one, perhaps you could forgive riders wanting a tooth extra on the gearbox sprocket?
Excellent explanation and has changed my mind about raising the gearing in my modern Honda CBF to give what many in the various forums suggest will achieve a “more relaxed” cruising speed.
Great analogy Paul! Regardless the machine the principles are all relative!👍
Great point. Thanks!
I totally agree with you Paul. My best mate Scotty (from Peterhead) who contracted you a long time ago, tried a bigger gearbox sprocket on his 350 Bullet, which didn’t help (in fact made it worse). I’ve gone from a 15 to a 16 tooth sprocket on my Super Meteor 650, and it gives me a less “buzzy” cruising ride at 70mph. With the lesser cc, it gives you less scope in my opinion. Manufacturers do their testing, and I guess what they come up with, is the best result. In my case, I chose to cruise at a lower rpm. There’s no right or wrong, just what you prefer. Keep up the good work on your channel which I’m pleased is growing.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You just solved a riddle that had been challenging me for a while. I had bought a used Classic 500 that seemed to strain a bit around 60 mph. In the paperwork I got with the bike was a list of all the modifications done to the bike. A new larger sprocket was put onto it. Now, I may have the solution.
I did something similar, I went 2 teeth down on the rear sprocket of my 2020 500 Efi. That should equal to appx 2/3 of going up 1 tooth in front. I think it's a great solution. I can still pot around, but also enjoy less vibrations at 80 kmh. 😍As for the obsession with the so called "Dug-dug", I avoid it like the plague. These engines are happy to be revved, trying to make it sound like an old trawler will ruin the engine.
great video ,
Good point, well explained and its exactly why I won't be changing the gearing on my AJS, bearing in mind that it has to haul my bulk through the Northumbrian gales.
Always tempting to under rev with big singles
I geared up my triumph 650 and it pinked so I started getting increasingly large main jets. Obviously that didn’t help but this was 1982 and I was 20 and the internet couldn’t help.
Take a standard old bike or Landrover and start messing with gears or suspension or motor tuning and you may gain something but at something else’s expense.
The factory standard is usually the best compromise available.
Mum knows best!
Thanks Paul, I'm glad an expert confirms what I have concluded after my so far limited experience on my Bullet 500 EFI. I would say chugging along at 50-55mph in top gear is far more relaxing and efficient than struggling up to 60mph+ and then constantly changing gear every time you reach a bit of a hill, slow down for a bend or get hit by the backdraught of a wagon going the other way. After decades of producing bikes I'll trust RE knows how to gear them optimally, and the default speed limit will soon be 50mph anyway!
A good compromise is to gear them up but also fit the close ratio gearbox sprockets. As long as it's got enough puff to pull away cleanly in first, you can take advantage of any increase in top speed the higher gearing might give you but with the option of riding in third without the engine screaming.
I've always tried to get across to others to NOT "lug" the engine, get it spinning up to it's happy spot
My 500 Bullet is fine, but I'm old and knackered. Do I still need to change any sprockets?
Great explanation Paul. I use the same analogy with the bicycle gears and peddling to those RE owners here in Australia.
They are fascinated with low rpm running trying to gear them so tall so they barely make it past 3500rpm at 60mph laboring the buggery out of them.
When tuning my GT535 I found going a lower gearing by 1 tooth from the stock 18 to a 17 tooth with the peaky power delivery of Hitchcocks cams made the bike only accelerate harder and also gain higher top speed allowing the engine to "rev out" in top gear.
The 18 tooth with the Peaky cams was just not the right combination. Would make the engine labor before the cams would come "on song". I feel even now just one or 2 more teeth on the rear sprocket would be the ticket.
As for the older 500 Bullets I stand by the 17 and 18 tooth with a somewhat stock engine/cams depending on their use and a tuned 535 and 5 speed only then I like the 19 tooth. Especially in my area of Australia where its mostly highways.
Very interesting. May you never experience cavitation on a motorcycle!
Indeed!
On my tuned '54 350 , I raised the gearing by one tooth to great advantage, so was greedy and tried another tooth. At first all seemed good until I got on the motorway at 65 ish, I couldn't get past the bow wave of the waggons. 😣
You are Correct.... but only when your dealing with low horsepower ! in low horsepower motorcycles you can "OVER GEAR IT" but on the higher horsepower machines that is less likely to happen.... for instance a 8.5hp honda 90cc back in the 1960's could barely reach 60mph... I changed the gearing so I could cruise at 60mph with that bike but on hills I did have to shift down, some times twice just to get up them.... later with a much bigger machine I was dismayed at the BUZZ i was getting at freeway speeds.... I geared it up to get the RPM down and that worked great.... recently I got a 2012 Ninja 250 it was geared so low I had to shift 3 times before I reached 30mph ! I changed both sprockets on it and finally got it right for my type of riding a huge 16 tooth in the front and a 43 tooth in the rear..... and at 70mph the bike is turning about half the RPM's that it used to... but keep in mind this bike loves the RPM where it was at 9,000 RPM before doing 70mph now is around 7,000 rpm
but if I want to I can still get to 9000 rpm as long as it's not a steep hill..... i have to shift down for that.... and that is how it should be.... not rapped out to 9,000 RPM all the time !
gearing up a bike has many advantages ! most bikes are geared too low to be of any use on todays highways especially if they are older vintage machines my 1977 Triumph 750 doesn't need any changes to the gearing at all and I can accelerate on any hill on the freeway without shifting down if I want... so the power is there.... but the Ninja can do that too if I shift down.
gearing the ninja UP changed the nature of that machine dramatically, and for the good.
on a small motorcycle that you want to be able to go faster on you may want to gear it up
because it may well loose power on the hills..... but that is what the transmition is for....just shift down ! but in normal riding you will be doing it faster.... I know because I did it !
Very well explained Paul. I think sometimes people want a cheap "improvement" to their bike and a sprocket change is cheap and simple. ( Never mind the team of engineers with years of experience and expertise who designed it) 😂
Yes indeed.Before computer control and automatic transmissions,
big lorries,running somewhere around 14/15L displacement,19:1-21:1 compression,
with a turbocharger,had a pyrometer,to measure cylinder head temperature.
This let the driver know if the combustion chamber (head) was overheating.
Generally you have a 10 speed manual gearbox,and with a modicum of experience,you knew when to downshift,when pulling a hill,loaded,and really didn't need a pyrometer.
I'm 62, been driving truck 40 years,and riding even longer.I would not go more than 1 tooth up or down,from stock,and yeah, I thought I knew better too,in my younger day.
The factory gearing is the optimal gearing.Lugging the engine is rarely a good thing.
Camming and ignition timing are based on factory gearing.
Hi Paul I've got a tuned 350 now. . . I have a 16t but with a 400x18 rear tyre . . . I was thinking of decreasing the gearbox sprocket to 15 because of the taller tyre. . . .not yet run it up in its turned state as I've found she's got a stripped sump nut. . .
Wise words Paul, but as they say. "You drag an Idiot to a library but you can't make them think!" 😃 Keep up the good work.
If one wants to lug, chose steam. Maximum torque at zero revs!
Hello Paul, out of interest I would like to ask you a question: Don't all motorcycles in the UK have to go to the MOT and what is tested at the MOT? Here in Germany it would be unthinkable to drive around on a motorcycle without working lights. Even the change in the gear ratio of the chain drive would have to be entered into the vehicle registration certificate by an expert. The same applies to rear-view mirrors, etc. Of course, only those parts that have the corresponding test marks are permitted. In Germany, all vehicles that require registration must undergo a general inspection every two years. For trucks and vehicles used to transport passengers, sometimes even an annual safety inspection is carried out.
Hi Harald - and I thought our system was strict!
Here, machines over 40 years old do not require an mot any more, but otherwise it is every year. Vehicles without any lights can be used on our roads in the hours of daylight, which are specified and different for each day of the year, and using such machines 'out of hours' can result in penalties for a user.
Very interesting Paul love your bike
Ps
I’m trying to find a centre stand for my 69 starfire have you any idea where I’ll get one
Thanks
Terry
Hi Terry and thanks. You could try Burton Bike Bits for a stand.
Far too many people fail to have their bike engines turning over quickly enough when they grab a large handful of throttle. The result is damage to gears, bearings and sometimes cases. Over gearing just worsens the situation. HD Sportsters and BSA B40s are particularly susceptible to damage as their gearboxes cannot handle much torque, but are OK if the revs are used. Think Geoff Smith, he did not lug his B40.
For trials use Paul what would you recommend no teeth gearbox/rear sprocket for plonking along on 350 Bullet
So many variables there, such as terrain, skill levels and if any road miles are also envisaged. The trials wide ratio gearbox conversion lowering the first 3 gears and leaving top as it is might be worth considering, as well as going down by 1 tooth or more on the gearbox sprocket.
@@paulhenshaw4514 thanks Paul it has trails ratios in the box apparently definitely geared for trials with 13 tooth gearbox sprocket and rear is 54 teeth
Standard gears work fine for me. Who wants to ride for long distances at 90+ M.P.H. anyway?
Hi paul, recently (2 weeks back), spark plug hole of my 1989 bullet 350 got damaged and every thread got slipped, I got it fixed with my nearest mechanic with helicoils sleeve, but I noticed something odd with my engine timing right away when I picked my bike. So I came home and checked the timing, it was 3mm after TDC. I don't know why my mechanic did this, but the engine thump was very heavy and strong with that timing setup. Should I keep it as it is for few hundred miles or should I go to the regular 0.8 mm before TDC?
Re time it NOW, or damage will result !!!
@@paulhenshaw4514 Thanks paul! Noted.
Both the Indian gearing (17 / 38) and Redditch gearing (21 / 46) are very similar, at 2.235 : 1 and 2.190 : 1 respectively.
Though if the Indian engine gives a similar output to the Redditch one, perhaps you could forgive riders wanting a tooth extra on the gearbox sprocket?
The Indian versions have a fair bit less power than the Redditch machines.
@@paulhenshaw4514 that may explain the slightly lower gearing on Indian machines
a good lesson