@@ThinkingandTinkering im Irish and i agree 100% with ya. and i also noticed that alot of Canadian guy's do alot of electronic videos too. but i don't understand why we don't see more Irish guy's on you tube coz ya wouldn't believe how many guys tinker about in their sheds making and fixing all sorts of things. (but then again most eccentric people are sort of shy)
My Mother's from near The Zouder Zea!! Opposite the Friesland Isles, Although, I am not too sure about if there's Any Zea, left, bearing in mind how efficient the Dutch are at Reclaiming Land!! (* I Always suggest that we get Dutch Engineers in, when we are having problems with 'Flooding' here in the UK, but up to now, no one will take me seriously!! Dankje. XxX
Denver Colorado here, I wanna take a moment to thank you for your videos and tell you how inspiring it is to see these videos in this day and age. There is so much information that is getting lost and a dependency on black magic boxes.It’s good to be reminded that we can build things with stuff that’s around us thank you
Sir, thank you for another instructive and interesting video. Some comments: 1 - The suppressor capacitor usually has a 100 ohm resistor in series to limit the discharge current when the contact recloses. 2 - The plug-in relay you showed would have had two sets of contacts. If you drive the coil through one contact set and the load through the other set, you should achieve frequency stability, limited only by the sag in battery voltage as you load it - reducing frequency. 3 - One should switch on a transistor radio nearby to assess the radio frequency interference. Even with the suppressor capacitor, expect it to be excessive. (Although less if you use the two-contact-set arrangement). The metal-cased relays to which you referred would be better in this respect if you earthed the case. 4 - Early car radios - pre-transistor of course - used a vibrator to generate 50mA or so of HT current. The valves (toobs to our American brethren) would have had 12V heaters and run off the battery DC. 5 - Relays are specified for around a million ops. Assume a likely frequency - try 200Hz - that gives 1.4 hours running time. If the relay were spec'd for 10million ops, you'd still only get a little over half a day. But it's fun to make, and instructive at the same time, which is important. Oh yes, we didn't mention polarising the transformer core, did we!
Hi, great comment. This video is to explain some basic principles to viewers. The 100 ohm resistor you mentioned is not needed in this low voltage application. The capacitor won't be killed easily here. Those ancient vibrator relays have a dead weight tuned to low Hz. They look like those tall earlier telephone relays. Modern Electro mechanical Relays are not specified for million cycles. May be 50k. These mechanical relays will not operate at 200 Hz because of the physical limitation. Open and close times around 10 msec each. 200 cycles per minute is already considered very high. Even these we have use special relays. Regards.
I like these videos before the intro has finished and never take it back. What a great resource this channel is. Thanks Rob & Co. , inspiring stuff mate.
What I love about you doing these projects is that they demonstrate the building blocks on which our modern technology is built. What concerns me greatly about modern tech is how "disconnected" people are becoming from "how stuff works". There's that old saying, "we don't want to re-invent the wheel"... well, at the rate we're going, at some future point we may have to because people will have forgotten that a wheel was ever even used to make things. 😄
No that's false. You read Books on electric engineering pre 60s and you will find much more useful info than today. And they admitted to not being able to account for energy in a closed system that would blow up devices This is Maxwell and Teslas Math... Today it's all lies in every science
@@cassdroid2183 That's Exactly what is being said!! I hope you realise that you are agreeing, despite what you said in the first paragraph that you wrote?! Namaste 🙏 Andrea and Critter Family. XxX
It's kinda strange how annoyed you were in totally agreeing with them 😅, you took everything they said 'bass ackwards'.... "No, that's false!" , thanks for the laugh 😅. Peace and best wishes from Ireland, have a great Christmas mo chara x
Took inspiration from you this week. Saw a treadmill with free scrap on it on school run. Took it home stripped it down. All looked ok apart from the motor not turning. Took it appart and found what looked like crispy spiders inside stopping the coil from turning. Cleaned it up and is now working. Put it all back together and now have a treadmill for my pain cave
Hi Rob, you should attach a capacitor across the points to stop them burning out. Use the condensor from an auto ignition as it is designed for exactly this use. Note: the relay is only hiding the arcing from view, it is still happening. Edit: LOL! I commented before finishing the video, I see you addressed it at 5:20. :) HAHA Well done mate.
The most important advantage is the price and it's resistance to high rads, important for all preppers out there, easy to make and maintain, specially in harsh conditions. Thanks for the video mate, hope you can give us more electro-mechanical devices in the future.
There are so many ways to make Ac current. I found another on u-tube. Lookup : Ruhmkorff Induktor with elektrolytic Interrupter. Basicly two dissimilar electrodes in a weak acid add about 30volts Dc and it oscilates.
Absolutely, RM-S! radio inside the passenger compartment, aerial on the fender, but DC generator commutator , voltage regulator contacts, distributor points all potentially causing noise. Spark suppression was in a field all its own. Solutions are out there, our fathers and grandpa's had it all down pat.
yeah, i just replaced a voltage regulator on an 1950ies hanomag, the old one is still jumping along at 16V, I now may hook it up to an old transformer and make myself a variable AC powersupply.
Early in my career I used to have to fit Redlline Inverters, these were full sinewave and simply comprised of a 12 volt motor a connecting shaft and a 240 volt generator.
Many machine shops use them especially when there's no 3 phase incoming mains available & needed to power 3 phase equipment. Simply use a 3 phase motor (large enough to handle the electical load [i.e. 20 or more% greater than the load]) and presto....you're in business.
Knew I subbed for a reason. In Oregon just had an ice storm and was out of power for almost a week. I have a generator now and made some solar panels and a bunch of batteries....
I was thinking about minimizing the arc, and I think surface area is the key, so maybe use a half ball and socket to maximise the surface area and reduce the current flowing through a very small spot, thus reducing its temperature.
When i was a kid i would get old car radios and fix them most of the time it was the vibrator that was not working so i would pry open the can and clean and rebend the contact reed and wala working radio. Most of the radios i fixed were 6v the ac from the inverter was to step up the 6v to 80v for the b+ required for the plate bias on the valves/tubes. And amazingly enough these old am radios would only have a very faint sound of the vibrator singing in the background at about 100hz . A very gratifying sound when you'd fire up the old radio and the tubes would warm up and you'd hear that sound.
sounds like the lifespan can be extended greatly by using a solid state relay instead and putting a shunt across the output so the back feed has somewhere to go that isn't the relay.
Presuming that the energisation of the relay is enough to actually engage the NO contact, then it would be possible to use a 24v CT to 240v and have the off cycle power one side of the centre tapped primary and the on cycle powering the other, with negative going to the centre tap. That should produce a better waveform out of the transformer secondary.
You like arcs.... Make a capacitance charger.. I ran it with 2 (used for Browns gas generator I have) Put 2pieces of charcoal and put them under water in a bucket. Nature of capacitance charger allows you to pull the charcoal apart increasing the arc back and forth. I'm not too skilled but piss easy to make just caps and bridge rectifier. I used it for a Alchemy experiment making Iron. 2 Carbon molecules + 2 Oxygen make "a type of" stainless steal Human resonance. Org
Great work ; Tesla, Marconi and others built such an inverter to generate high voltage waves and fed these voltages to a long antenna and that's how they transmitted wireless morse codes across the oceans.
Vibrating coil technology was so common! Including in millions of cars with PM DC generators, before alternators, that had a resistor in the NO contact circuit which was inserted in the field winding to regulate the output to charge the 12v battery.
Good project and demo. I'm anticipating a variable, controlled frequency oscilator made from a cheap rc motor and driver, with a magnetically pulsed, voltage amplifying switch actuated by a rotary magnet, in a shielded, steam punk case.
You could probably make a slightly-less-retro version of this with some or all solid-state components, if you need a quick-and-dirty way to turn DC into AC! It's basically three sections: An oscillator, a high-current switch, and a transformer. The oscillator could be anything from discrete transistors to a 555. You just need to produce a square wave at the frequency you want the output. This is relatively easy. The switch is the hard part -- high-current solid-state switches tend to be expensive, and high-current mechanical switches (relays) tend to be noisy (physically and electronically/by radio) and wear out quickly. The mechanical oscillator design he showed basically combined both these parts together in a clever way -- one relay can be the entire oscillator while also being the high-current switch, though you do really need something to suppress arcing on the contacts or it'll burn itself out quickly. The third part is a transformer -- as these isolate two circuits from each other in a way that doesn't care about the "centre" voltage on either side, this can take any square wave as an input and produce a scaled version on the outputs that can be used as a substitute for a more traditional AC line (though it's not going to be a sine wave, which will interfere with some electronics). Ideally, you also have some kind of overheat/overcurrent cut-out on the transformer's input line, since if the relay/transistor/whatever burns out in such a way that it gets stuck in the closed position, you're essentially shorting the 'battery' or other high-current DC line through the transformer's primary winding. I think you can find transformers that come with this, but it tends to be essentially a non-replacable one-shot fuse, so it's probably best to add your own that trips faster even if your transformer has one built in, to avoid burning out a heavy and expensive component (and to add an additional layer of safety).
Resistive loads don't care if you feed them AC or DC, so you could just use a collection of batteries to make up the required voltage - same goes for an appliance with a universal motor. Many other appliances also don't care if you feed them AC or DC, since the current runs through a bridge rectifier before anything else.
wouldn't that mean you need 10 12 volt batteries to run a 120 volt appliance instead of running 1 battery through a relay and a transformer, that cost half a battery and don't need to be charged?
@@williamburdon6993 Yes, it means you need more batteries. However, in the long run it'd be way more efficient as there would be no power lost transforming the voltage or powering a relay. If you're stepping up the voltage you're going to need the battery to provide a lot of current. For every 1amp of 120v you're going to need 10amps of 12v from the battery and that isn't including transformer losses. Current demand is what results in a voltage drop and more current means more power lost due to resistance that becomes heat. Yes, 10 batteries are going to need charging for 10x longer but 1 battery is going to need charging 10x more frequently, thus reducing its lifespan by 10x. Whichever way you look at it, it's always more efficient to start with a higher voltage and use it as it is.
IF YOU USE A FERRITE CORE TRANSFORMER YOUR SQUARE WAVE (ON OFF 0-120) WILL GET 'LOOPY'... SOMETHING ABOUT THE 'EDDY CURRENTS' IN THE FERRITE CORE. I discovered this by accident while building my own 'capacitance discharge ignition' for a Honda four wheeler... what happened on the oscilliscope to the wave was amazing!
Yup... 1957 Chevy from my youth... remember that HV step up arraignment pretty well.... and waiting for the radio to "warm up" before it would start to output audio...
That is almost exactly how the old ringing doorbells worked! They would have an adjusting screw on the arm to fine tune the ring ;0) The other thing to remember is that you don't get "Owt fer nowt" ..... Power in = Power out. Double the output voltage double the input current!
I have a old farm manual that shows how to make what they call a buzz box. It used the bell ringer from an old phone as the make brake relay and showed you how to wind your own step-up transformer. they also used a compositor off a car distribute to keep the arcing to a minimum.
Imagine the EM coming out of that thing. What happens when you put 100A at 12V through it? What if instead the vibrator swings a magnet that energizes a secondary coil into a transformer? Then you'll get a nice, clean sine wave. Not sure how stable your frequency will be for various loads with this mechanical method, though.
That would mean running the motor very slowly. Accurate speed control would be difficult, I think running it at a normal higher speed and gearing it down...it would take 100's:1 ratio such as a worm drive.
I personally like the idea of useing a brushed motor t drive a commutator, I think it would be much esyer to make a drive sircuit for. I think they used to make an inverter made of a motor connected to an altanaitor at some point i'm guessing it'd be the best regarding both control and sine wave quality.
True, this was common technology. My Dad told me about working on the Vampire (1950's, one of the first jet fighters, used in the RAF and RAAF, amongst others) that employed this to obtain high voltage.
I was looking into this some time ago and was put off by the cost of relays and the noise, not sure if with an SSR solid state relay H bridge it would be better (never got to test it). I find it specially interesting as inverters now are expensive and can fail easily (makes it or complex to repair or expensive to replace). I was thinking of this in the context of heating loads during sun spells (solar + battery)
I... accidentally deleted the reply I typed. Trying to recreate it from memory: Looking at this circuit, I don't think an H-bridge is even necessary! You just need some way to generate a square wave at the desired frequency (555 timer?), and use it to somehow switch your high-amperage DC side (Preferably with something less noisy than the improvised contactor shown, one DC SSR should be enough, in other words, as long as it can handle the power. Needs to be pretty powerful, though.). This eg. 0-12V square wave side goes through a transformer, and the AC coming out the other side has the same peak-to-peak swing, multiplied by whatever the step-up factor of the transformer is (-6 to +6V for a 1:1 transformer, -60 to +60V for a 10:1 transformer, etc.). Voltage is relative, so you can redefine your "zero" freely between the sides of the transformer. The only actual output it produces is the difference between its output terminals, and that only cares about the difference between the input terminals. The "average" of both sides can be completely different (as long as you don't connect between them)! Super clever stuff! Keep in mind that the peak voltage of an AC square wave and the RMS voltage are different, though! You'll need to do some unexpected mathematics when selecting your component values if you want to provide comparable 'voltage' to a traditional sine-wave AC grid! That said, if you need AC at a voltage you can easily achieve for DC, an H-bridge might make more sense. I think this is more for producing bootleg (square-wave or otherwise malformed, but correct frequency and VA) "mains voltage" AC, as you would in some sort of emergency or off-grid power system (as he said, you won't be running any delicate electronics off of this, and some kind of motors might also be unhappy. It should run lights and heaters intended for mains voltage though, and maybe other stuff too! Keep in mind that the power supplies used in 'mains voltage' LED lights vary greatly. Some won't mind it at all, some might not work, some could even break, it all depends on the specific circuit used. No idea how fluorescents work, but they have a lot of electronics behind the scenes too, as well as being scary high-voltage gas-discharge tubes, so I would be afraid to try them with power sources they weren't designed for. Keep in mind I'm not an expert, I just like to read/watch things like this. The books I have don't really talk about AC stuff a lot, and even less about non-sine waves, so I may have the wrong idea about any or all of this. Stay safe!
I used a DIN rail relay because it easy to see but Omicron make relays in the order of a pound or so with 100,000,000 fillips - and I din't get that wrong - they switch with that order of life - but the noise is an issue unless you put a piece of felt around it - An SSR can't switch fast enough.
Thanks to both , in terms of frequency i had thought arduino could be used to create the frequency for 50 a second. In terms of step up i got hold of a 240 to 12 AC transformer and was hoping to go in with the 12. For ssd not being fast enough, i could be mixing things up but i think the idea is a single one would only handle a half AC cycle but doing the H bridge would give you both half cycles (yes, square form). There are ssd on ebay for high amperage (i thought i would target to use half the max rated amperaje). I am also not a specialist, just dabbling and never enough time to finish things but this one i want to finish one day, i have a second 240 to 12v AC transformer, not sure of wattage now but its a 16kg beast 😅. Overall to use with a hot plate not electronics. All part of a wider thing... Damn the castles in the air and not enough time...
@@TheBlackadder-Edmund That all sounds good, except the use of a microcontroller as a frequency generator. As it's going to be exposed to whatever electromagnetic noise this inverter makes, and whatever poor-quality power source it's connected to, and the sudden power drops on the DC side from the AC side being connected to a load, I would be worried about a microcontroller potentially crashing here -- keep in mind that, if it crashes while generating a PWM square wave, there's a 50-50 chance of essentially shorting your DC supply across the transformer. Maybe I'm just overcautious, though.
Old Ferris radios had this device arrangement. It was called a Vibrator and was used to convert 6 or 12 volt battery DC to high voltage to run the valves in the current Car Radios of the day. Chewed heaps of waisted power and flattened a car battery within a couple of hours!
Rob Sir that's a great video very nice build, How to work with the noise reduction and smooth flow of power is what will make this just hi tech, love and very warm regards from India
great info...while we are on this topic....is there a way to clean up the output of a regular generator for use on sensitive electronics? Like they say inverter generators are good for sensitive electronics. thank you.!
Yes it's called an ac voltage regulator and they are really energy hogs but some older small commercial hydro plants sold them to customers for sensitive computer equipment in the 70s 80s and 90s
It's interesting how things were done during the industrial revolution. I am going to play around with a bridged MOSFET device with 2-3 FET's on each side to reduce the heat, but again it's about getting a pure sine wave on the output
Sine wave... Rather than running the fet as a voltage controlled variable resister. You may be able to run it as a class D amplifier. Loads of circuit examples of such. But pretty much a pwm signal that ramps up and down in duty, switching a fet between off and on... followed by a low pass filter that blocks the pwm switching frequency, but allows f of Sine wave through.
@@stevecummins324 yes, this is what I meant, it pumps the switching frequency into a transformer to achieve the best possible 220vAC wave as possible with the purest possible sine wave as a result.
@@stevetobias4890 the inductance of the transformer input coil will itself act somewhat as a low pass filter. Add a capacitor across it if you want to further lower the maximum frequency it'll pass. (LC low pass filter if you wanted to calculate values, rather than determine experimentally) Pwm signal frequency at least double the output frequency. And low pass filter cut off f between pwm and output frequency. Higher pwm frequency won't make for cleaner output... But will allow small component values to used in the low pass.Most FETs can cope with 1kHz pwm speed and that's more than enough for a 50/60hz output. Pwm signal could be generated by a Sine wave oscilator circuit, a voltage comparator and a ramp waveform generator of 1khz frequency. *but* arduino probably easiest.
Can I use a large toroidal Transformer? I also have some really big capacitors any idea what size I want to use? I'll start with a small one.... and work my way up.
yes - I am not sure on what the output will be. like but you can pretty much use anything - it just gets better with better selection of components but pretty much anything will do
The Surge in Solar PV caused Me to realise the Possibility of more DC Systems. In Turn DC Lighting is Easy to do. If Only the Manufacturers Offered a Broader Range of DC Lamps plus DC Rated Switches. I did Enjoy the Video.
I agree the real answer is to change the equipment used to DC - after all most of it I DC already and ac is really only used to transport then changed back to DC for loads of things
During the late 1950, early 1960s, mobile radio transceiver used mechanical vibrators to generate high voltage power for the transmitter valves from the car 12 volt supply. The efficiency was very poor, with an output power of just 5 watts at VHF. Later the mechanical vibrators were replaced by germanium power transistors, this significantly improved the efficiency, though it was still poor compared with modern solid state designs. The contact arcing problem is usually addressed in the same way as in the old mechanical car ignition system, by the inclusion of a high voltage capacitor across the interrupter contacts.
I am sorry mate - I get your point and don't disagree but there is a lot to be learnt from this tech is what I think and I get the impression there is a degree of discounting that in what you are saying
@@ThinkingandTinkering unlike your video on magnet amplifiers, I think this technology is better consigned to the history books, particularly due to its poor efficiency and it's potential for generating EMI. You may be interested to know, that my first amateur radio was an old Pye Cambridge am mobile transceiver. ( I still have it). This was of the benefaction that used OC23 power transistors for the inverter that generated the high voltage power for the transmitter valves The output stage was a QQV310. As the internal chassis, was punched out for a valve FM modulator, I latter added this stage allowing the transmitter to transmit either AM or The new fangled FM. By the time I retired the Cambridge it was something of a hybrid. It used a integrated circuit connected to the if to demodulate the FM signals. It had a dual gate MOSFET receiver front end amp an first mixer, and a CMOS CD series crystal switching stage, that used pin diodes, to allow the receiver to scan at a whole 10 channels of the amateur 2m band. The whole thing required about 10 Amps from the 12 volt supply to give about 6 watts on AM and about 10 watts on FM. It was the size of a suit case. Today, far greater functionality can be achieved in the size an old cigarette packet.
That was excellent Robert, I was only asking my father today, what's the difference between AC and DC, I probably learned it years ago but had it forgotten🙂 anyway UA-cam must have read my mind and suggested your video 😁
lol when i was a kid in the early 1970's i made those. it lit a light bulb 💡 but hook it to a stereo & buzzz. i was really interested to see the way modified sine waves & pure sine waves are made.. its more like music how it graduates & steps towards pole shifts. similar to a dyson motor.
I used to be fascinated as a boy by how simple farm electric fences worked, they used similar to your relay but it was highly wound with a capacitor in paralell and would charge up and clck very slowly cus the capcitor would keep the relay open unill it discharged
I did the exact same thing except all i used was car relay, running in series with contactor, and to control the frequency rate you put different rating capacitor on the coil,
Can the analog inverter(no transistors) run something like a welding machine or 1hp electric motor? When I tried to run a motor rated at 2400 watts (120V*20Amp=2400) with a 2500 Watt invertor (had transistors) the motor ran for maybe 2 or 3 seconds then shut off. The inverter started beeping and hasn't worked since haha. Could an analog inverter(no transistors) handle the continuous 2400 watts? Or is this a battery problem(I had the invertor hooked up to a fully charged 12v car battery).
Question, why don't you start with DC ultracapacitors .. Into the stepup transformer.. Then into AC capacitors... Would that not work? Avoiding the arcing in the first place.
In a pinch, for a few hours, maybe, but there was a very good reason switching inverters were invented, and you just displayed why. But there was a intermediate step between electro-mech inverters and solid state inverters involving big old caps and valves, which morphed into big old germanium transistors and big old caps with an analogue vibration circuit... what they had to do before 555's...
I am sorry mate - I have to disagree with a part of that - this was a predominant tech and issues like lifetime were overcome to a degree - so I can't agree with the 'in a pinch' argument - plus there is a lot to be learnt by looking at how they did it and making it to give you a hands on feel of what is involved in inverters
@@ThinkingandTinkering Relay contacts are rated in 100's of 1000's and chattering at 50 times a sec is not "normal working conditions". They would wear out quick smart.
I am sorry mate - that's not right they are rated in the millions of flips - the one I used is rated at 100 million flips Moicron do ones with higher ratings
could make it solid state... just a standard amv circuit with a transformer in the collector lines will work fine has a close to sinus output and basically always works ;) sure, no high efficiency but realy easey to make :)
nifty and clever, although I believe we should be back to DC power use when generating our own and using DC/DC transformers - unless it is a high power equipment shop - someone taking it ? there was a WG focused on household Dc power distribution , I don't know where it went
Quiet by accident my first relay lab I unintentionally wired up my relay like this.. But not only did it cycle (because of the way I wired it) it added inductive kick to the original load. And an intended 12 vdc load lamp instead received 24. What do you know....a DC to DC converter too....
so…maybe I misunderstand…but it doesnt seem to be a real ac inverter…doesn’t it just generate pulsed 240v dc? I don’t understand how it could switch polarity or generate a sin wave. ??
LOL I have a 300w 12v / 120v inverter from back in the 70's that uses a vibrator relay with a set screw to set timing. Being square wave out put it's noisy as hell but works for many things. Most modern Computer PSU would be ok with it. KISS , Keep It Simple Stupid is the game. Not like your trying to run a Air Conditioner with the thing. Put a .o1uf cap across your contacts and they will not ark so much.
so, what do I need to convert 3VDC to 1.5VDC? I have a aaa powered copy of the world's best selling book and want to listen to it constantly without having to change batteries (battery).
...unless you want an actual sine wave with decent quality and an accurate frequency... and no KHz / MHz / GHz harmonics, which are illegal to produce...
I immediately thought of my father's Model T ignition coil/box. (Made my first Jacob's ladder with it). My first thought on the frequency stability: I think you could add a 50/60 hz resonance circuit to the activation of the relay coil to help stabilize the frequency somewhat (without making it overly complex). Additionally, like the old Ford coil, you could have a thumbscrew to adjust the spacing between off/on (deadtime) which could optimize for frequency too.
a capacitor in parallel with the relay coil will do it mate thought you would need a DPDT relay as you would need to connect the output to a different switch to help prevent frequency drift
Robert Have you heard of this Glass Battery that apparently never runs out Americans had it for years now putting it on the market 3 dollars a share check it out please should we invest??????????? regards Dan.
I wonder how hard it would be to build a double vibrator tube....? I bet it could be done. Locked safe in an gas tube the vibrators last longer. Points and such. 🫡 Keep'em Thinking'n'Tinkering Boss. Good Fortunes, Great Successes and Many Blessings 🤝
You should name this, 'the series of First Principles'. This series of vids are primary building blocks to creative inventions.
I like that mate - I might create a playlist and collect them in one place
@@ThinkingandTinkering A playlist is a very good idea!
In the Dutch Airforce I heard ones one of my instructor say; Never underestimate an Englishman in his shed. You just reminded me of that. :-)
lol - we are a nation of tinkerers mate lol
What a good story. How about a half Dutch, half English Australia?
@@ThinkingandTinkering im Irish and i agree 100% with ya. and i also noticed that alot of Canadian guy's do alot of electronic videos too. but i don't understand why we don't see more Irish guy's on you tube coz ya wouldn't believe how many guys tinker about in their sheds making and fixing all sorts of things. (but then again most eccentric people are sort of shy)
My Mother's from near The Zouder Zea!! Opposite the Friesland Isles,
Although, I am not too sure about if there's Any Zea, left, bearing in mind how efficient the Dutch are at Reclaiming Land!!
(* I Always suggest that we get Dutch Engineers in, when we are having problems with 'Flooding' here in the UK, but up to now, no one will take me seriously!!
Dankje. XxX
Denver Colorado here, I wanna take a moment to thank you for your videos and tell you how inspiring it is to see these videos in this day and age. There is so much information that is getting lost and a dependency on black magic boxes.It’s good to be reminded that we can build things with stuff that’s around us thank you
Thank you mate and thank you for taking the time to say so - all the best
Sir, thank you for another instructive and interesting video. Some comments:
1 - The suppressor capacitor usually has a 100 ohm resistor in series to limit the discharge current when the contact recloses.
2 - The plug-in relay you showed would have had two sets of contacts. If you drive the coil through one contact set and the load through the other set, you should achieve frequency stability, limited only by the sag in battery voltage as you load it - reducing frequency.
3 - One should switch on a transistor radio nearby to assess the radio frequency interference. Even with the suppressor capacitor, expect it to be excessive. (Although less if you use the two-contact-set arrangement). The metal-cased relays to which you referred would be better in this respect if you earthed the case.
4 - Early car radios - pre-transistor of course - used a vibrator to generate 50mA or so of HT current. The valves (toobs to our American brethren) would have had 12V heaters and run off the battery DC.
5 - Relays are specified for around a million ops. Assume a likely frequency - try 200Hz - that gives 1.4 hours running time. If the relay were spec'd for 10million ops, you'd still only get a little over half a day.
But it's fun to make, and instructive at the same time, which is important.
Oh yes, we didn't mention polarising the transformer core, did we!
Hi, great comment.
This video is to explain some basic principles to viewers.
The 100 ohm resistor you mentioned is not needed in this low voltage application. The capacitor won't be killed easily here.
Those ancient vibrator relays have a dead weight tuned to low Hz. They look like those tall earlier telephone relays. Modern Electro mechanical Relays are not specified for million cycles. May be 50k. These mechanical relays will not operate at 200 Hz because of the physical limitation. Open and close times around 10 msec each. 200 cycles per minute is already considered very high. Even these we have use special relays.
Regards.
I like these videos before the intro has finished and never take it back. What a great resource this channel is. Thanks Rob & Co. , inspiring stuff mate.
What I love about you doing these projects is that they demonstrate the building blocks on which our modern technology is built. What concerns me greatly about modern tech is how "disconnected" people are becoming from "how stuff works". There's that old saying, "we don't want to re-invent the wheel"... well, at the rate we're going, at some future point we may have to because people will have forgotten that a wheel was ever even used to make things. 😄
I agree - I did this because it is exactly the basics of current modern inverters
No that's false. You read Books on electric engineering pre 60s and you will find much more useful info than today.
And they admitted to not being able to account for energy in a closed system that would blow up devices
This is Maxwell and Teslas Math...
Today it's all lies in every science
@@cassdroid2183 That's Exactly what is being said!!
I hope you realise that you are agreeing, despite what you said in the first paragraph that you wrote?!
Namaste 🙏
Andrea and Critter Family. XxX
It's kinda strange how annoyed you were in totally agreeing with them 😅, you took everything they said 'bass ackwards'....
"No, that's false!" , thanks for the laugh 😅. Peace and best wishes from Ireland, have a great Christmas mo chara x
Took inspiration from you this week. Saw a treadmill with free scrap on it on school run. Took it home stripped it down. All looked ok apart from the motor not turning. Took it appart and found what looked like crispy spiders inside stopping the coil from turning. Cleaned it up and is now working. Put it all back together and now have a treadmill for my pain cave
Well done m8🙂
Good job! Rescued one myself, also (membrane keypad was corroded, so I wired in some pushbuttons for the necessary functions). Pain cave made me LOL
I just love that story mate - well done you and thank you for sharing
Hi Rob, you should attach a capacitor across the points to stop them burning out. Use the condensor from an auto ignition as it is designed for exactly this use.
Note: the relay is only hiding the arcing from view, it is still happening.
Edit: LOL! I commented before finishing the video, I see you addressed it at 5:20. :) HAHA
Well done mate.
lol - cheers mate
I love the through-core vibrator, that is so elegant.
I agree mate
The most important advantage is the price and it's resistance to high rads, important for all preppers out there, easy to make and maintain, specially in harsh conditions. Thanks for the video mate, hope you can give us more electro-mechanical devices in the future.
There are so many ways to make Ac current. I found another on u-tube. Lookup : Ruhmkorff Induktor with elektrolytic Interrupter. Basicly two dissimilar electrodes in a weak acid add about 30volts Dc and it oscilates.
What comes out of there is rf interference pissing off all your neighbours lol
Much less these days, but you'll certainly piss off Hams for quite a ways away.
Make it inside a microwave.
if you really wanted to do this you just put it in a can like they used to - this was used in car radios
Absolutely, RM-S! radio inside the passenger compartment, aerial on the fender, but DC generator commutator , voltage regulator contacts, distributor points all potentially causing noise. Spark suppression was in a field all its own. Solutions are out there, our fathers and grandpa's had it all down pat.
yeah, i just replaced a voltage regulator on an 1950ies hanomag, the old one is still jumping along at 16V, I now may hook it up to an old transformer and make myself a variable AC powersupply.
I have learned so much from this gentleman.
Early in my career I used to have to fit Redlline Inverters, these were full sinewave and simply comprised of a 12 volt motor a connecting shaft and a 240 volt generator.
I know the kind you mean mate and I love them
We have always called those dynamos
Many machine shops use them especially when there's no 3 phase incoming mains available & needed to power 3 phase equipment. Simply use a 3 phase motor (large enough to handle the electical load [i.e. 20 or more% greater than the load]) and presto....you're in business.
Knew I subbed for a reason. In Oregon just had an ice storm and was out of power for almost a week. I have a generator now and made some solar panels and a bunch of batteries....
awesome mate
I was thinking about minimizing the arc, and I think surface area is the key, so maybe use a half ball and socket to maximise the surface area and reduce the current flowing through a very small spot, thus reducing its temperature.
When i was a kid i would get old car radios and fix them most of the time it was the vibrator that was not working so i would pry open the can and clean and rebend the contact reed and wala working radio. Most of the radios i fixed were 6v the ac from the inverter was to step up the 6v to 80v for the b+ required for the plate bias on the valves/tubes. And amazingly enough these old am radios would only have a very faint sound of the vibrator singing in the background at about 100hz . A very gratifying sound when you'd fire up the old radio and the tubes would warm up and you'd hear that sound.
Very cool demo. Appreciate the wiring diagram. In a pinch and with the parts one can use this inverter for a while. Many thnaks DVD:)
cheers mate and yes you could
sounds like the lifespan can be extended greatly by using a solid state relay instead and putting a shunt across the output so the back feed has somewhere to go that isn't the relay.
Couple the relay to a capacitor and bam frequency stable, and set, I make these all the time
Presuming that the energisation of the relay is enough to actually engage the NO contact, then it would be possible to use a 24v CT to 240v and have the off cycle power one side of the centre tapped primary and the on cycle powering the other, with negative going to the centre tap. That should produce a better waveform out of the transformer secondary.
Awesome, and it works great to annoy the neighborhood too, tons of emf!!
I like that cow boy skull at the background made out of bicycle seat and a steering wheel.
lol - cheers mate - I got the idea from Picasso
You sir are a wealth of information. Your explanation is so clear and well laid out. I have forever thought inverters were NASA level technology. LOL
Wow, thanks and yes once it was the height of tech - ah how things have changed lol
I have lots of microwaves. I've been collecting them lol. I see an arc and it just makes me want to go and practice my welding.
it was quite an arc lol
You like arcs....
Make a capacitance charger.. I ran it with 2 (used for Browns gas generator I have)
Put 2pieces of charcoal and put them under water in a bucket. Nature of capacitance charger allows you to pull the charcoal apart increasing the arc back and forth.
I'm not too skilled but piss easy to make just caps and bridge rectifier.
I used it for a Alchemy experiment making Iron.
2 Carbon molecules + 2 Oxygen make "a type of" stainless steal
Human resonance. Org
@@cassdroid2183 sounds really interesting . You should make a video mate
You can do that pretty much with a solid stat relay too
Another great video, thank you!
Great work ; Tesla, Marconi and others built such an inverter to generate high voltage waves and fed these voltages to a long antenna and that's how they transmitted wireless morse codes across the oceans.
It would be interesting to see the output on a scope. As always, great video.
It's a pretty cheap and easy thing to make mate - give it a go and share the output
Outstanding DnD😎
Vibrating coil technology was so common! Including in millions of cars with PM DC generators, before alternators, that had a resistor in the NO contact circuit which was inserted in the field winding to regulate the output to charge the 12v battery.
I love old tech mate - it teaches us so much in a clear way about what we are doing now
Good project and demo. I'm anticipating a variable, controlled frequency oscilator made from a cheap rc motor and driver, with a magnetically pulsed, voltage amplifying switch actuated by a rotary magnet, in a shielded, steam punk case.
lol - pretty much the plan here mate lol
You could probably make a slightly-less-retro version of this with some or all solid-state components, if you need a quick-and-dirty way to turn DC into AC!
It's basically three sections: An oscillator, a high-current switch, and a transformer.
The oscillator could be anything from discrete transistors to a 555. You just need to produce a square wave at the frequency you want the output. This is relatively easy.
The switch is the hard part -- high-current solid-state switches tend to be expensive, and high-current mechanical switches (relays) tend to be noisy (physically and electronically/by radio) and wear out quickly. The mechanical oscillator design he showed basically combined both these parts together in a clever way -- one relay can be the entire oscillator while also being the high-current switch, though you do really need something to suppress arcing on the contacts or it'll burn itself out quickly.
The third part is a transformer -- as these isolate two circuits from each other in a way that doesn't care about the "centre" voltage on either side, this can take any square wave as an input and produce a scaled version on the outputs that can be used as a substitute for a more traditional AC line (though it's not going to be a sine wave, which will interfere with some electronics).
Ideally, you also have some kind of overheat/overcurrent cut-out on the transformer's input line, since if the relay/transistor/whatever burns out in such a way that it gets stuck in the closed position, you're essentially shorting the 'battery' or other high-current DC line through the transformer's primary winding. I think you can find transformers that come with this, but it tends to be essentially a non-replacable one-shot fuse, so it's probably best to add your own that trips faster even if your transformer has one built in, to avoid burning out a heavy and expensive component (and to add an additional layer of safety).
it's sort of where we are heading with this mate - I like the mechanical version because it shows the logic and operation in a way that can be 'seen'
What parts would you recommend for a 6kw inverter?
Resistive loads don't care if you feed them AC or DC, so you could just use a collection of batteries to make up the required voltage - same goes for an appliance with a universal motor.
Many other appliances also don't care if you feed them AC or DC, since the current runs through a bridge rectifier before anything else.
wouldn't that mean you need 10 12 volt batteries to run a 120 volt appliance instead of running 1 battery through a relay and a transformer, that cost half a battery and don't need to be charged?
@@williamburdon6993
Yes, it means you need more batteries.
However, in the long run it'd be way more efficient as there would be no power lost transforming the voltage or powering a relay.
If you're stepping up the voltage you're going to need the battery to provide a lot of current. For every 1amp of 120v you're going to need 10amps of 12v from the battery and that isn't including transformer losses.
Current demand is what results in a voltage drop and more current means more power lost due to resistance that becomes heat.
Yes, 10 batteries are going to need charging for 10x longer but 1 battery is going to need charging 10x more frequently, thus reducing its lifespan by 10x.
Whichever way you look at it, it's always more efficient to start with a higher voltage and use it as it is.
IF YOU USE A FERRITE CORE TRANSFORMER YOUR SQUARE WAVE (ON OFF 0-120) WILL GET 'LOOPY'... SOMETHING ABOUT THE 'EDDY CURRENTS' IN THE FERRITE CORE. I discovered this by accident while building my own 'capacitance discharge ignition' for a Honda four wheeler... what happened on the oscilliscope to the wave was amazing!
I love how Old Tech becomes New Tech, It also depends on applications. But still sound principles. Thanks Teach. A+
lol - My pleasure mate! - I love it too
brings back memories of 1950s car radios that used valves with a vibrator power supply fot the HT
Yup... 1957 Chevy from my youth... remember that HV step up arraignment pretty well.... and waiting for the radio to "warm up" before it would start to output audio...
lol - exactly where I got the circuit from - I just cut out all the stabilising stuff
Will pulsed dc work with a magnetic amplifier? Or are magnetic amplifiers only work with ac?
That is almost exactly how the old ringing doorbells worked!
They would have an adjusting screw on the arm to fine tune the ring ;0)
The other thing to remember is that you don't get "Owt fer nowt" ..... Power in = Power out. Double the output voltage double the input current!
for sure mate
Thank you. Excellent video. I try to keep up, but theirs so much info. Ty
I do cover quite a bit of ground that's for sure - cheers mate
I wonder if a solid state relay would work
I am afraid it can't switch fast enough
Easy as that. I made some inverters, but that one was clever . Perfect for education.
sure would like to see how easy your inverter was to make.
I think so too mate - cheers
That's just how I made electric shock machine as a kid.
Oh what fun our early days were
lol - for sure
I have a old farm manual that shows how to make what they call a buzz box. It used the bell ringer from an
old phone as the make brake relay and showed you how to wind your own step-up transformer. they also
used a compositor off a car distribute to keep the arcing to a minimum.
compositor... condenser???
@@jbodden6977 condenser, where did that mp come from
I was just pondering this a couple weeks ago was gonna use a fet but this seems easier.
I get a dc pulse from a washing machine pump,by spinning the magnet ,runs the pp backwards and puts out a very strong pulse.
awesome
Excellent information thanks for sharing
🌞😎🌞
Glad you enjoyed it
Could you use a solid state relay instead to achieve the result?
Imagine the EM coming out of that thing. What happens when you put 100A at 12V through it? What if instead the vibrator swings a magnet that energizes a secondary coil into a transformer? Then you'll get a nice, clean sine wave. Not sure how stable your frequency will be for various loads with this mechanical method, though.
What about running a dc motor at 60 rpm tapping a set of points as a chopper
That would mean running the motor very slowly. Accurate speed control would be difficult, I think running it at a normal higher speed and gearing it down...it would take 100's:1 ratio such as a worm drive.
@@nil5221 yes, maybe a modified timer motor, just throwing some ideas out there, thanks for the great videos.
they did that mate they were motor - gen sets or dynamotors
By the way even transistors wear out after a long period from oscillating.
Can you go the other way and convert AC to half-wave DC with a vibrator?
New to all of the but would a solid stat relay be better and quiter?
lol - now that's the truth lol
Thanks for sharing that's really interesting
Glad you enjoyed it
I personally like the idea of useing a brushed motor t drive a commutator, I think it would be much esyer to make a drive sircuit for. I think they used to make an inverter made of a motor connected to an altanaitor at some point i'm guessing it'd be the best regarding both control and sine wave quality.
True, this was common technology. My Dad told me about working on the Vampire (1950's, one of the first jet fighters, used in the RAF and RAAF, amongst others) that employed this to obtain high voltage.
I believe they were called dynamotors mate
I was looking into this some time ago and was put off by the cost of relays and the noise, not sure if with an SSR solid state relay H bridge it would be better (never got to test it). I find it specially interesting as inverters now are expensive and can fail easily (makes it or complex to repair or expensive to replace). I was thinking of this in the context of heating loads during sun spells (solar + battery)
I... accidentally deleted the reply I typed. Trying to recreate it from memory:
Looking at this circuit, I don't think an H-bridge is even necessary! You just need some way to generate a square wave at the desired frequency (555 timer?), and use it to somehow switch your high-amperage DC side (Preferably with something less noisy than the improvised contactor shown, one DC SSR should be enough, in other words, as long as it can handle the power. Needs to be pretty powerful, though.). This eg. 0-12V square wave side goes through a transformer, and the AC coming out the other side has the same peak-to-peak swing, multiplied by whatever the step-up factor of the transformer is (-6 to +6V for a 1:1 transformer, -60 to +60V for a 10:1 transformer, etc.). Voltage is relative, so you can redefine your "zero" freely between the sides of the transformer. The only actual output it produces is the difference between its output terminals, and that only cares about the difference between the input terminals. The "average" of both sides can be completely different (as long as you don't connect between them)! Super clever stuff! Keep in mind that the peak voltage of an AC square wave and the RMS voltage are different, though! You'll need to do some unexpected mathematics when selecting your component values if you want to provide comparable 'voltage' to a traditional sine-wave AC grid!
That said, if you need AC at a voltage you can easily achieve for DC, an H-bridge might make more sense. I think this is more for producing bootleg (square-wave or otherwise malformed, but correct frequency and VA) "mains voltage" AC, as you would in some sort of emergency or off-grid power system (as he said, you won't be running any delicate electronics off of this, and some kind of motors might also be unhappy. It should run lights and heaters intended for mains voltage though, and maybe other stuff too! Keep in mind that the power supplies used in 'mains voltage' LED lights vary greatly. Some won't mind it at all, some might not work, some could even break, it all depends on the specific circuit used. No idea how fluorescents work, but they have a lot of electronics behind the scenes too, as well as being scary high-voltage gas-discharge tubes, so I would be afraid to try them with power sources they weren't designed for.
Keep in mind I'm not an expert, I just like to read/watch things like this. The books I have don't really talk about AC stuff a lot, and even less about non-sine waves, so I may have the wrong idea about any or all of this. Stay safe!
I used a DIN rail relay because it easy to see but Omicron make relays in the order of a pound or so with 100,000,000 fillips - and I din't get that wrong - they switch with that order of life - but the noise is an issue unless you put a piece of felt around it - An SSR can't switch fast enough.
Thanks to both , in terms of frequency i had thought arduino could be used to create the frequency for 50 a second. In terms of step up i got hold of a 240 to 12 AC transformer and was hoping to go in with the 12. For ssd not being fast enough, i could be mixing things up but i think the idea is a single one would only handle a half AC cycle but doing the H bridge would give you both half cycles (yes, square form). There are ssd on ebay for high amperage (i thought i would target to use half the max rated amperaje). I am also not a specialist, just dabbling and never enough time to finish things but this one i want to finish one day, i have a second 240 to 12v AC transformer, not sure of wattage now but its a 16kg beast 😅. Overall to use with a hot plate not electronics. All part of a wider thing... Damn the castles in the air and not enough time...
@@TheBlackadder-Edmund That all sounds good, except the use of a microcontroller as a frequency generator. As it's going to be exposed to whatever electromagnetic noise this inverter makes, and whatever poor-quality power source it's connected to, and the sudden power drops on the DC side from the AC side being connected to a load, I would be worried about a microcontroller potentially crashing here -- keep in mind that, if it crashes while generating a PWM square wave, there's a 50-50 chance of essentially shorting your DC supply across the transformer. Maybe I'm just overcautious, though.
Old Ferris radios had this device arrangement. It was called a Vibrator and was used to convert 6 or 12 volt battery DC to high voltage to run the valves in the current Car Radios of the day. Chewed heaps of waisted power and flattened a car battery within a couple of hours!
Rob Sir that's a great video very nice build, How to work with the noise reduction and smooth flow of power is what will make this just hi tech, love and very warm regards from India
cheers mate
great info...while we are on this topic....is there a way to clean up the output of a regular generator for use on sensitive electronics? Like they say inverter generators are good for sensitive electronics. thank you.!
Yes it's called an ac voltage regulator and they are really energy hogs but some older small commercial hydro plants sold them to customers for sensitive computer equipment in the 70s 80s and 90s
It's interesting how things were done during the industrial revolution. I am going to play around with a bridged MOSFET device with 2-3 FET's on each side to reduce the heat, but again it's about getting a pure sine wave on the output
Sine wave... Rather than running the fet as a voltage controlled variable resister. You may be able to run it as a class D amplifier. Loads of circuit examples of such. But pretty much a pwm signal that ramps up and down in duty, switching a fet between off and on... followed by a low pass filter that blocks the pwm switching frequency, but allows f of Sine wave through.
@@stevecummins324 yes, this is what I meant, it pumps the switching frequency into a transformer to achieve the best possible 220vAC wave as possible with the purest possible sine wave as a result.
@@stevetobias4890 the inductance of the transformer input coil will itself act somewhat as a low pass filter. Add a capacitor across it if you want to further lower the maximum frequency it'll pass. (LC low pass filter if you wanted to calculate values, rather than determine experimentally)
Pwm signal frequency at least double the output frequency. And low pass filter cut off f between pwm and output frequency.
Higher pwm frequency won't make for cleaner output... But will allow small component values to used in the low pass.Most FETs can cope with 1kHz pwm speed and that's more than enough for a 50/60hz output.
Pwm signal could be generated by a Sine wave oscilator circuit, a voltage comparator and a ramp waveform generator of 1khz frequency.
*but* arduino probably easiest.
@@stevecummins324 thank you Steve (great name by the way) 👍
awesome mate - sounds like a good project
Hey am curious is there bullet proof armor you can buy made of graphene yet
no 0 I don't think so
Can I use a large toroidal Transformer? I also have some really big capacitors any idea what size I want to use?
I'll start with a small one.... and work my way up.
yes - I am not sure on what the output will be. like but you can pretty much use anything - it just gets better with better selection of components but pretty much anything will do
Use your mechanical driver of brushless motors in making of simple inverter
yes you could
The Surge in Solar PV caused Me to realise the Possibility of more DC Systems.
In Turn DC Lighting is Easy to do.
If Only the Manufacturers Offered a Broader Range of DC Lamps plus DC Rated Switches.
I did Enjoy the Video.
I agree the real answer is to change the equipment used to DC - after all most of it I DC already and ac is really only used to transport then changed back to DC for loads of things
During the late 1950, early 1960s, mobile radio transceiver used mechanical vibrators to generate high voltage power for the transmitter valves from the car 12 volt supply.
The efficiency was very poor, with an output power of just 5 watts at VHF. Later the mechanical vibrators were replaced by germanium power transistors, this significantly improved the efficiency, though it was still poor compared with modern solid state designs.
The contact arcing problem is usually addressed in the same way as in the old mechanical car ignition system, by the inclusion of a high voltage capacitor across the interrupter contacts.
I am sorry mate - I get your point and don't disagree but there is a lot to be learnt from this tech is what I think and I get the impression there is a degree of discounting that in what you are saying
@@ThinkingandTinkering unlike your video on magnet amplifiers, I think this technology is better consigned to the history books, particularly due to its poor efficiency and it's potential for generating EMI.
You may be interested to know, that my first amateur radio was an old Pye Cambridge am mobile transceiver. ( I still have it).
This was of the benefaction that used OC23 power transistors for the inverter that generated the high voltage power for the transmitter valves
The output stage was a QQV310. As the internal chassis, was punched out for a valve FM modulator, I latter added this stage allowing the transmitter to transmit either AM or The new fangled FM. By the time I retired the Cambridge it was something of a hybrid. It used a integrated circuit connected to the if to demodulate the FM signals. It had a dual gate MOSFET receiver front end amp an first mixer, and a CMOS CD series crystal switching stage, that used pin diodes, to allow the receiver to scan at a whole 10 channels of the amateur 2m band. The whole thing required about 10 Amps from the 12 volt supply to give about 6 watts on AM and about 10 watts on FM. It was the size of a suit case. Today, far greater functionality can be achieved in the size an old cigarette packet.
That was excellent Robert, I was only asking my father today, what's the difference between AC and DC, I probably learned it years ago but had it forgotten🙂 anyway UA-cam must have read my mind and suggested your video 😁
Very good video, I like
lol when i was a kid in the early 1970's i made those. it lit a light bulb 💡 but hook it to a stereo & buzzz. i was really interested to see the way modified sine waves & pure sine waves are made.. its more like music how it graduates & steps towards pole shifts. similar to a dyson motor.
I used to be fascinated as a boy by how simple farm electric fences worked, they used similar to your relay but it was highly wound with a capacitor in paralell and would charge up and clck very slowly cus the capcitor would keep the relay open unill it discharged
I did the exact same thing except all i used was car relay, running in series with contactor, and to control the frequency rate you put different rating capacitor on the coil,
cheers mate
seen imhotep use relays like this, fun power spikes
Can the analog inverter(no transistors) run something like a welding machine or 1hp electric motor? When I tried to run a motor rated at 2400 watts (120V*20Amp=2400) with a 2500 Watt invertor (had transistors) the motor ran for maybe 2 or 3 seconds then shut off. The inverter started beeping and hasn't worked since haha. Could an analog inverter(no transistors) handle the continuous 2400 watts? Or is this a battery problem(I had the invertor hooked up to a fully charged 12v car battery).
Isn’t that the pulse contraption the same as a solenoid ? by the way I like to show your good guy
Question, why don't you start with DC ultracapacitors .. Into the stepup transformer.. Then into AC capacitors... Would that not work?
Avoiding the arcing in the first place.
In a pinch, for a few hours, maybe, but there was a very good reason switching inverters were invented, and you just displayed why. But there was a intermediate step between electro-mech inverters and solid state inverters involving big old caps and valves, which morphed into big old germanium transistors and big old caps with an analogue vibration circuit... what they had to do before 555's...
I am sorry mate - I have to disagree with a part of that - this was a predominant tech and issues like lifetime were overcome to a degree - so I can't agree with the 'in a pinch' argument - plus there is a lot to be learnt by looking at how they did it and making it to give you a hands on feel of what is involved in inverters
@@ThinkingandTinkering Relay contacts are rated in 100's of 1000's and chattering at 50 times a sec is not "normal working conditions". They would wear out quick smart.
as you no doubt have gathered from my posts, I really do not like relays.
I am sorry mate - that's not right they are rated in the millions of flips - the one I used is rated at 100 million flips Moicron do ones with higher ratings
lol - no I got that - but it's like anything to my mind - useful for some stuff
could make it solid state...
just a standard amv circuit with a transformer in the collector lines will work fine
has a close to sinus output and basically always works ;)
sure, no high efficiency but realy easey to make :)
nifty and clever, although I believe we should be back to DC power use when generating our own and using DC/DC transformers - unless it is a high power equipment shop - someone taking it ? there was a WG focused on household Dc power distribution , I don't know where it went
Quiet by accident my first relay lab I unintentionally wired up my relay like this.. But not only did it cycle (because of the way I wired it) it added inductive kick to the original load. And an intended 12 vdc load lamp instead received 24. What do you know....a DC to DC converter too....
A light bulb that takes high voltage doesn't care if it's fed AC or DC.
Yes but how to get high DC voltage when you've only got a 12v battery? A step-up transformer needs AC (or pulsed DC in this case)
@@nil5221 For that, we don't worry about output frequency - you can also use a spark, that's what Tesla did.
if you have never done it try taking a strip light down to an overhead HV supply line - it will just light up - it's quite awesome
@@ThinkingandTinkering I have Tesla coils for that kind of fun.
awesome!
Thank you! Cheers!
Multivib using them 98% efficient SiC mosfets is better. Needs centre tapped transformer.
so…maybe I misunderstand…but it doesnt seem to be a real ac inverter…doesn’t it just generate pulsed 240v dc? I don’t understand how it could switch polarity or generate a sin wave. ??
You could use a Reed Switch instead of Relay couldn't you Robert? You could also uses some Diodes too couldn't you Robert?
you could mate on both counts
LOL I have a 300w 12v / 120v inverter from back in the 70's that uses a vibrator relay with a set screw to set timing. Being square wave out put it's noisy as hell but works for many things. Most modern Computer PSU would be ok with it. KISS , Keep It Simple Stupid is the game. Not like your trying to run a Air Conditioner with the thing. Put a .o1uf cap across your contacts and they will not ark so much.
lol - that is awesome mate and thanks for the cap tip
so, what do I need to convert 3VDC to 1.5VDC? I have a aaa powered copy of the world's best selling book and want to listen to it constantly without having to change batteries (battery).
A quick patent search will show you that original electric clocks ran on earth batteries
555 timer produce sinewave and move from low current to higher....I think this is the simplest
...unless you want an actual sine wave with decent quality and an accurate frequency... and no KHz / MHz / GHz harmonics, which are illegal to produce...
Another simple way is to run an ac generator with a dc motor.
I immediately thought of my father's Model T ignition coil/box. (Made my first Jacob's ladder with it).
My first thought on the frequency stability: I think you could add a 50/60 hz resonance circuit to the activation of the relay coil to help stabilize the frequency somewhat (without making it overly complex).
Additionally, like the old Ford coil, you could have a thumbscrew to adjust the spacing between off/on (deadtime) which could optimize for frequency too.
a capacitor in parallel with the relay coil will do it mate thought you would need a DPDT relay as you would need to connect the output to a different switch to help prevent frequency drift
Runs led. And charges pho
good enough mate lol - cheers
Would you do a clip on hydrogen technology, I believe it is the future of energy.
aND FOR YOUR nEXT tRICK: may i suggest you construct a rudamentary Theremin and play the dr who intro, your not far from building your own Tardis,
A really helpful video would be 240v to 440v three phase in layman’s terms great videos as always
Let us know when you get that done
Robert Have you heard of this Glass Battery that apparently never runs out Americans had it for years now putting it on the market 3 dollars a share check it out please should we invest??????????? regards Dan.
DO NOT PLUG ELECTRONICS INTO THIS!!!
relay wont last long been pulsed hard like that..
Wash those hands
Amateur !
I wonder how hard it would be to build a double vibrator tube....? I bet it could be done. Locked safe in an gas tube the vibrators last longer. Points and such. 🫡 Keep'em Thinking'n'Tinkering Boss. Good Fortunes, Great Successes and Many Blessings 🤝