Fun fact: Omni Man was originally going to be named "Supra Man", but Image Comics made the writers change the name due to it being too close to the DC character, Superman.
Soup man is a man that shoots soup out his hands his rival is frozen soup and frozen soup was souped into a volcano that erupted 3 seconds before and soup man's a anti hero
The fact that Omin Man killed Superman's friends tells me this fight should have been over with the moment he arrived. I think we can all agree that when you hurt or (heaven help you) kill his loved ones, the gloves comes off and you are 100% done.
@@evanwashington6959 if a supernova occurred in a city, that wouldn't just destroy that city. Our whole solar system would get destroyed. The only thing that's probably gonna survive is the sun.
Yea he just showed his real power against possibly his extremely strong enemy of superman. The fact that he sent him flying at all with one punch is insane
Finally, an actual battle where Superman’s freeze breath is actually taken into account. Why do so many other match ups always forget about this powerful ability? It’s just as potent as his heat beams.
L bro ice breath is kind of dum£ bro sits there and blows cold air at someone bro freezes then bro ice isn’t tuff bro would just break through it with Ease
"But, that's a weaker version of Omni Man". Yeah, goes both ways, and literally every other version of Superman stomps out any other version of Omni Man.
@@KaosNova2 Omniman is the image comics version of Superman. Superman literally flew to the end of the universe in a matter of minutes and also held a sun in his hand
And Before people ask "But What about Omni-Man's Regeneration??" Keep in mind that Invincible Healed a hole In a stomach in a few days, Besides, Omni-Man Did die a few times in his life. So that Regeneration is limited by the timeframe and potency. Update: I accidentally fell for mistaking the Incarnations back then. I'm very sorry.
@@TripleA_TheSole see I don’t know about that one only because of one newspaper article in BvS stating how Super realigned the tectonic plates. But I think he could beat down the first rendition of Superman in which he couldn’t even fly
@@ethoslost2887 It’s called Mark had get Thragg into the Sun, and then continue pummeling Thragg inside the Sun to make sure that he never got out. The Sun doesn’t kill Viltrumites instantly. They literally have to be forced to stay inside. These being literally fly all the way through Earth-like planets and destroy the planet by going all the way through the planet, including the inner core with temperatures of 12,000F or above. Mark also was in the core of the Sun punching Thragg, and he lived.
@@KaosNova2 Supermans heat vision scales far above the core of the sun in terms of sheer heat. I know it's ridiculous but its sealed holes in reality, warmed up an entire planet, literally vaporized an army of doomsday clones (animated version as well), stalemated omega beams from Darkseid and even stalemated the 7 energies of the Universe, all used in one blast (speedforce, life force, etc)
Stop mentioning sunlight bro, Superman’s body is like a solar battery so both night, day, space , anywhere in the world Superman’s strength is far superior
AnimationRewind long time fan and love the realistic, possible fights. Thank you my friend. For just animating all kinds of fight whether it be meme-y or realistic. You’re so amazing.
Holy shit I just rediscovered your channel back in Elementary school I used to watch u and Death Battle all the time. I'm in high school now and I'm so glad I found u guys again.
Here's an example for you: Nevermind that Superman somehow heard an alarm from a watch while he was in a whole other galaxy, and showed up on earth before the speed of sound could prosibly have traveled even outside of the city. That's without factoring in the diminishing nature of sound as it travels. By that logic, Omni Man would be toast before Superman even launches an attack. Superman will always be as powerful as he needs to be no matter what. All his limitations are always arbitrary and debatable, and no laws of physics really ever apply to him. Meaning: Any time the story calls for Omni Man (or anyone else for that matter) to need a good beating, Superman would win.
The thing about Superman is that he’s just re-written as stronger ever few years. He’s gone from “faster then a speeding bullet” to able to fly across the multiverse in seconds and “more powerful than a locomotive” to being able to move the earth back into proper orbit for no other reason then the writers just re-wrote him as stronger. I like non-dc super races like sayians or viltrumites, or even Allan the alien better then kryptonians because the have in-story mechanics relativ to which they get stronger as oppose to “we just made him stronger and he’s stronger now because he’s a character and we re-wrote him.”
Manny's strength and ramming speed is definitely a hindrence against shrek while it's most likely shrek is faster and versatile Manny doesn't have much in his sleeves in terms of attacks and shrek isn't really a strategist
No. He would have to descover kryptonite existing, then find the rare stone and use it, as well as figure out supes, gets power by the sun all before supes demolishes him. Also, supes doesn't get affected by kryptonite anymore
I will say Omni man is clearly faster than the speed of light as in the recent episodes he set in front of a black hole which not even light itself can escape he literally was on the event horizon
But he does, plus Omni man has had hundreds of years of combat experience, mostly fighting beings close to his or superman's power. Even if Superman is stronger I think Omni mans battle skill and utter brutality will win him the fight
If you think about it, superman is invulnerable to anything except kryptonite, and on the other hand, viltrumites are vulnerable to someone that is stronger than them, so kryptonians are stronger than viltrumites
This is hard to gauge as we never see DCAU Superman take the gloves off and try (the closest is in Superman vs the Elite and he was pretty horrifying in that) and there has only been one season of Invincible. If this was comic book Superman this would be a bloodbath for poor Omni man as comic book Superman is just straight up broken.
I'd like for them to battle in their ideologies, since superman sees the beauty of earth and everything in it, and Omni man sees earth as a useless place.
Fun video, & neat analysis! The animation was great! Very brisk pace, well-done, but the voice clips were a bit quiet, & didn't always seem context perfect. Still, thanks for uploading!
Video idea the banana splits movie vs Fnaf Sml vs smg4 total war The banana splits movie vs slendytubbies The banana splits movie vs sonic exe Willy’s wonderland vs the banana splits movie Fnaf vs willy’s wonderland Deadshot vs deadpool Talis vs foxy Power rangers vs marvel Power rangers vs tmnt Bendy vs cartoon cat Friday night funkin vs parappa the rapper Angry birds vs plant vs zombies Skylanders vs Disney infinity Stormtroopers vs Cybermen daleks vs battle droids spider man in to the spider verse vs sans au my hero academia vs demon slayer yu gi oh vs Pokemon total war rick and morty vs futurama south park vs family guy Ant man vs Godzilla
The one thing that doesn't wash here is when Omni-man plows Superman through the civilians. Superman would almost certainly come up with some way to change their trajectory so no one was hurt.
Omni-Man is way closer to Superman than the likes of Homelander, but still orders of magnitude below Clark. The easiest fact to go by is that Viltrumites can approach the sun's surface but will slowly roast to death when touching it's outer layer whereas Kryptonians can dive all the way in, spend indefinite amounts of time meditating inside of it and come out unphased. The difference between both feats of durability is quite astronomical.
Ok I knew superman would win but lets be for real, He wouldn't showboat like that during an intense battle like that. I get that he showboats sometimes but we didn't see him doing that against doomsday or darkseid
Think Clark Think: ua-cam.com/video/74k8K9S2ahg/v-deo.html
Whoa
@@barney9800 Stop spamming
This video was awesome can you do requests like The Genie from Aladdin vs Bill Cipher. Pls
This is kinda like a battle between a lizard and an army tank. Where Superman is the army tank and Omni-Man is the lizard.
3 green goblin from every spiderman fight echthother
Fun fact: Omni Man was originally going to be named "Supra Man", but Image Comics made the writers change the name due to it being too close to the DC character, Superman.
Supra man is taken by the fast and furious franchise
Soup man
Soup man is a man that shoots soup out his hands his rival is frozen soup and frozen soup was souped into a volcano that erupted 3 seconds before and soup man's a anti hero
Lies
@@WaqarAhmed-xq3er no soup for you man
He made one fatal mistake.
He hurt Superman’s friends
And Hawkman.
@@gantz22ify yes, and hawk man
That's a big no no
It’s green arrow
The fact that Omin Man killed Superman's friends tells me this fight should have been over with the moment he arrived. I think we can all agree that when you hurt or (heaven help you) kill his loved ones, the gloves comes off and you are 100% done.
Fun fact: DCAU Superman version’s striking strength almost destroyed Metropolis before the end of ‘Justice League Unlimited.’
No it didn't but it should have because that was the infinite mass punch which is a strong as a supernova
@@evanwashington6959 yes he almost
No, it wasn’t his punch, it was Darkseid flying through multiple buildings after Superman hit him in the face with a running punch.
@@evanwashington6959 if a supernova occurred in a city, that wouldn't just destroy that city. Our whole solar system would get destroyed. The only thing that's probably gonna survive is the sun.
Yea he just showed his real power against possibly his extremely strong enemy of superman. The fact that he sent him flying at all with one punch is insane
As strong as Omni Man is Superman is still on a whole another level.
He is no where near Superman
@@coffeelink943 he is the embodyment of " parralels ahead"
I think if they get into a fight no one will win and no one will lose
@@brenaxquiny8639 No shitass literally 80% of superman can beat Omni man
The only superhuman type hero to match against omni man is homelander.
superman is way too much for both of them.
"Superman vs Superman if he was a jerk"
That made me chuckle a bit 😄
Isn't that Homelander
@@Nameless82284 nah that’s Superman if he was a psycho
And yet Superman still won
@@jjohnson6382 ok?
@@jjohnson6382 does that have anything to do with the convo?
Finally, an actual battle where Superman’s freeze breath is actually taken into account.
Why do so many other match ups always forget about this powerful ability?
It’s just as potent as his heat beams.
Just immobilizing his opponent for a second gives Superman enough time to finish him. That’s all he needs with his incredible speed.
Its the weakest power anyone could even use against someone who has superhuman strength.
Omni man is faster than light twice over and super man is faster than a bullet also doesn’t Omni man have super strength
@@ladyj6393 superman is 15x faster than the speed of light in the comics, and also it takes a while for Omniman to accelerate to the speed of light.
L bro ice breath is kind of dum£ bro sits there and blows cold air at someone bro freezes then bro ice isn’t tuff bro would just break through it with Ease
I love how Clark tried to spare him but in the end had no choice but to kill him.
Just like Man of Steel.
"But, that's a weaker version of Omni Man". Yeah, goes both ways, and literally every other version of Superman stomps out any other version of Omni Man.
Omni-Man had a draw with Ethan Crane or Supreme the Image Comics Superman equivalent capable of shattering the edge of the Universe.
@@KaosNova2 crossovers allow writers to change and ignore canon facts
Honestly pissed me off that they made Superman weaker in the DCAU
@@oldirtymartian look what they did to lucifer
@@KaosNova2 Omniman is the image comics version of Superman. Superman literally flew to the end of the universe in a matter of minutes and also held a sun in his hand
And Before people ask
"But What about Omni-Man's Regeneration??"
Keep in mind that Invincible Healed a hole
In a stomach in a few days,
Besides, Omni-Man Did die a few times in his life. So that Regeneration is limited by the timeframe and potency.
Update: I accidentally fell for mistaking the Incarnations back then. I'm very sorry.
who cares
@@crescentstar8232
I was just pointing that out.
He died “a few times???”
@@lucasbroome4148
I mean As in Omni-Man died at Least a few times in the comic series.
I thought he only died once
In essence, Supes just absorbs the Sun's output whilst Omni man gets sunburned beyond recognition. There really is no contest.
There is no version of Omni-Man that beats Superman.
Actually there is. In a fight between Omniman from the Invincible tv show and DCEU Superman, Omniman will stomp.
@@TripleA_TheSole see I don’t know about that one only because of one newspaper article in BvS stating how Super realigned the tectonic plates. But I think he could beat down the first rendition of Superman in which he couldn’t even fly
@@Minetic So what? This guy literally destroyed a planet by just flying through it. Imo he can solo the entire MCU and DCEU excluding cosmic beings.
@@TripleA_TheSole he hasn't done that in the TV show. Even then, Superman is ftl and multi continental in the dceu
@@sptflcrw8583 OMG I can't believe people even think DCEU Superman has a chance against Omniman.
8:17 Omni Man tried that typical Invincible Universe rip your opponent apart literally. Then realized “Wow that always works what happened?”
That was probably when he realized he was boned.
should have went for the head
The way his right hand got too close to "down there" tho👀
Lmao but I LOVE the sickass combo superman does to him right after
The fact that superman could just disintegrate him with his heat vision tho.
Apparently a lot of people don’t know what the sun does to Thragg and mark.
@@ethoslost2887 what does it do ?
Omniman: *kills lois lane*
Superman: *"I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard."*
@@ethoslost2887 It’s called Mark had get Thragg into the Sun, and then continue pummeling Thragg inside the Sun to make sure that he never got out. The Sun doesn’t kill Viltrumites instantly. They literally have to be forced to stay inside. These being literally fly all the way through Earth-like planets and destroy the planet by going all the way through the planet, including the inner core with temperatures of 12,000F or above. Mark also was in the core of the Sun punching Thragg, and he lived.
@@KaosNova2 Supermans heat vision scales far above the core of the sun in terms of sheer heat. I know it's ridiculous but its sealed holes in reality, warmed up an entire planet, literally vaporized an army of doomsday clones (animated version as well), stalemated omega beams from Darkseid and even stalemated the 7 energies of the Universe, all used in one blast (speedforce, life force, etc)
Finnally first time seeing invincible character in a vs fight
Yes very good
@@StevenJones851 What's the background music?
@@jjohnson6382 i have no idea what's the background music sorry
@@StevenJones851 Damn. Thank you anyways for trying
@@jjohnson6382 your welcome buddy
Stop mentioning sunlight bro, Superman’s body is like a solar battery so both night, day, space , anywhere in the world Superman’s strength is far superior
AnimationRewind long time fan and love the realistic, possible fights. Thank you my friend. For just animating all kinds of fight whether it be meme-y or realistic. You’re so amazing.
Omniman literally let Invincible get whooped by Battlebeast because he didn't want the smoke. There's no way he beats superman
THANK YOU I thought I was the only one that peeped that
Lol so true
YESSSS HAHA
It was actually more of a this is to learn your lesson for disobeying me but yeah
I thought it was because he was testing Mark
Yeah Superman is Literally the One That Started on the Most Overpowered Superhero Types, You'd Think a Copycat Version of him being JJJ is gonna win??
That’s literally like red hulk vs hulk.. come on lol
@@Vision_Officia yea true
I think I smell salt.
@@night-seeker666 nah just saying
Saitama is the current most overpowered.
Superman hands down against all of his copies.
This is what i always wanted to see.
Thank you animation rewind for this amazing sprite battle.
Finally, Superman have save us from a traitor
Well omni man did it for an interesting reason
Kal-El gonna show Omni-Man why they call him Superman
It's amazing to me that people actually think Omni-Man has any chance against Superman.
Some people think homelander beats both
@@fifaufcclipz18 Too wrapped up in their fanboyism for their fav characters to see the UNDENIABLE TRUTH! Which is Superman wins.
@@fifaufcclipz18 no one actually think Homelander beats both.
I mean, he can't do anything besides punch.
@@fifaufcclipz18 homelander would get torn apart by both 💀
7:37 I don't think bruce will be able to pay clark his 16 dollars
Realistically this would have been more like the Invincible vs Omni-Man fight but Nolan is Mark.
I love the way superman says. "Iam who your trying to be".
I bet Superman can defeat the entire army of viltrum in his prime form
Ez
You have a my little pony pfp
I bet Saitama can defeat prime superman with a serious one-pinky finger flick. 🤭
@@KyranSparda superman prime one million is one of the weakest supermans, don't be fooled.
@@blood6276 If you have to revise your version of character, you have already lost. Saitama, one version, one punch only. 😂
Titans is a great series, can't wait for season 4!
Superman & lois is the best superman series ever!!
Batman and Doomsday: laughing their asses off.
@@gogeta5303 doomsday and superman stalemated and batman has never actually beaten superman in a fight
Like All Might (in his own universe)
Doomsday says hi.
@@wititorac doomsday and superman stalemated
Of course Superman won. Didn't expect anything less
I knew Supes was going to win.
Me too
Who else was rooting for super man the whole time?
finally a fight that i wanted to see animated
The iconic "THERE IS NOO PREP TIIME!"
Omni-man: earth isn't yours to conquer
Superman: I'm it's protector
Animationrewind I haven’t seen your videos for years I am just happy I can see your videos again
Now you have 903,000 subscribers.
Congratulations, Animation Rewind.
🙂👍
Amazing fight. Gabriel once again did a fantastic job on the fight animation.
Excited for the next fight as well.
Come on. Did we expect anything less from Clark. My boy is wicked strong.
Shrek VS. Manny: Battle Of Gods.
Holy crap! The way Superman used his freeze breath on Omni Man was brutal AF! I’m surprised Batman was able to beat this guy.
Batman only wins with prep time and because the writers love him and alfred
Strength feats wise, Omni Man doesn’t even come close to Superman.
Yet
wow can't believe I didn't know about this channel till now. This is some great quality content. SUBBED!
This is a massive stomp in favor of Kal El
no its harsh reality
@@crescentstar8232 Definitely. Some people just can't accept it.
Awsome battle dude
Holy shit I just rediscovered your channel back in Elementary school I used to watch u and Death Battle all the time. I'm in high school now and I'm so glad I found u guys again.
*Insert "think Mark think"joke*
Out of all these sites that I watched. You have a new subscriber I like the way you did it
Them boys punched eachother to a whole nother dimension😂
You’re super close to to 1M keep it up! I’ve been here since the very first episode!
Here's an example for you: Nevermind that Superman somehow heard an alarm from a watch while he was in a whole other galaxy, and showed up on earth before the speed of sound could prosibly have traveled even outside of the city. That's without factoring in the diminishing nature of sound as it travels.
By that logic, Omni Man would be toast before Superman even launches an attack.
Superman will always be as powerful as he needs to be no matter what. All his limitations are always arbitrary and debatable, and no laws of physics really ever apply to him. Meaning: Any time the story calls for Omni Man (or anyone else for that matter) to need a good beating, Superman would win.
DCEU Superman played by Henry Cavill is a lot weaker.
@@KaosNova2 How? He's still winning against Nolan.
@@windghost2 A dude who pulls a ship against a man who triggers nuclear fusion in the atmosphere of a planet? Are you going to compare those two?
The thing about Superman is that he’s just re-written as stronger ever few years. He’s gone from “faster then a speeding bullet” to able to fly across the multiverse in seconds and “more powerful than a locomotive” to being able to move the earth back into proper orbit for no other reason then the writers just re-wrote him as stronger. I like non-dc super races like sayians or viltrumites, or even Allan the alien better then kryptonians because the have in-story mechanics relativ to which they get stronger as oppose to “we just made him stronger and he’s stronger now because he’s a character and we re-wrote him.”
This is gonna be an interesting fight!
Cool
Think Clark! Think!
Cool Episode! Also, Shrek Vs. Manny Will Also Be Epic!
Manny all the way
Manny's strength and ramming speed is definitely a hindrence against shrek while it's most likely shrek is faster and versatile
Manny doesn't have much in his sleeves in terms of attacks and shrek isn't really a strategist
@@gachalifetoonstudios1377 so who do you choose
Green goblin vs the joker
Possibly shrek as manny doesn't have that many noticeable speed feats
The greatest touch of the animation is Superman avoiding hitting the kid running as omni man drags them through people. well played 💯
I knew Superman wins this one. Gg
Awesome Video Bro!
Great video
OmniMan is smart enough and has the ability enough to find kryptonite and fight him at night
How? There would be too many factors to reliably do that.
No. He would have to descover kryptonite existing, then find the rare stone and use it, as well as figure out supes,
gets power by the sun all before supes demolishes him.
Also, supes doesn't get affected by kryptonite anymore
All Star Superman would pummel Omni Man to the ground with just a flick of his finger!
Omni-man would put in a good fight but Superman is just too fast for Omni-man!
After hearing Superman's feats I just fast-forwarded through Omni man's
😂
Lmao
I do like Omni-man but I just like Superman more because Superman is better than he is!
I would love to see a rematch of this! Of perhaps a more matured Omni Man seeing as how he is weaker because he is younger.
comic book omniman is apparently a lot stronger
But it wouldn't really change the verdict, Superman in the comics is fucking ridiculous when it comes to power levels.
And Nolan might even think it would be an excellent idea to throw Supes into the sun, yeah, we all know that would end really well for him
@@BenunoKagaho or throw him in a blue star then well hes dead
@@reddawn1873 a blue star makes supes stronger
Nicely done on the animation
The original is the best!
Superman wins!!!
I will say Omni man is clearly faster than the speed of light as in the recent episodes he set in front of a black hole which not even light itself can escape he literally was on the event horizon
It's very obvious that superman would win, omniman doesn't even come close in terms of power to him.
But he does, plus Omni man has had hundreds of years of combat experience, mostly fighting beings close to his or superman's power. Even if Superman is stronger I think Omni mans battle skill and utter brutality will win him the fight
@@brickwall1368 Delusional
@@brickwall1368wat
@@brickwall1368 Yet Superman has defeat Darkseid himself and Doomsday, a being created to KILL HIM.
Just realized Superman has the CHAD face.
So awesome my man 💪exactly..now show one where he and one punch man are equal
Superman stomps easily! No contest
Omni man really tried to rip him in half 😂
IKR epic fail and Omni-man was the one ripped in half.
@@Khalfrank Fr lol
Superman ripping him in half is actually a karma lol
Awesome battle! I'd love to see omni man vs juggernaut & omni man vs lobo
Exactly, the chance to beat Superman is 0% without Kryptonite. The dude is just ridiculous.
An amazing battle from 2 very powerful beings
Good fight but I think Omni Man vs Bardock is more thematic
No.
Bardock
@@shiningking7416 Yeah
@@Juicyedup o yes nvm
I think Broly’s a Better title
If you think about it, superman is invulnerable to anything except kryptonite, and on the other hand, viltrumites are vulnerable to someone that is stronger than them, so kryptonians are stronger than viltrumites
That and sound based attacks.
Yep, nice call on this one. We clearly saw that Omniman had limits taking a nose bleed from an attack that Superman could tank easily.
This is hard to gauge as we never see DCAU Superman take the gloves off and try (the closest is in Superman vs the Elite and he was pretty horrifying in that) and there has only been one season of Invincible. If this was comic book Superman this would be a bloodbath for poor Omni man as comic book Superman is just straight up broken.
I'd like for them to battle in their ideologies, since superman sees the beauty of earth and everything in it, and Omni man sees earth as a useless place.
Nice!
I think a classic mistake that many make is thinking that Clark Kent is the disguise when in fact, the secret identity is Superman.
So well done!
Fun video, & neat analysis! The animation was great! Very brisk pace, well-done, but the voice clips were a bit quiet, & didn't always seem context perfect.
Still, thanks for uploading!
Video idea the banana splits movie vs Fnaf
Sml vs smg4 total war
The banana splits movie vs slendytubbies
The banana splits movie vs sonic exe
Willy’s wonderland vs the banana splits movie
Fnaf vs willy’s wonderland
Deadshot vs deadpool
Talis vs foxy
Power rangers vs marvel
Power rangers vs tmnt
Bendy vs cartoon cat
Friday night funkin vs parappa the rapper
Angry birds vs plant vs zombies
Skylanders vs Disney infinity
Stormtroopers vs Cybermen
daleks vs battle droids
spider man in to the spider verse vs sans au
my hero academia vs demon slayer
yu gi oh vs Pokemon total war
rick and morty vs futurama
south park vs family guy
Ant man vs Godzilla
fights like this always feel like "immovable object vs unstoppable object, how can i make one of them win in a certain constelation"
Cool hero fight
I just stumbled upon your videos for the first time
That intro was godlike and the rest of the video was just as good
Accurate
The one thing that doesn't wash here is when Omni-man plows Superman through the civilians. Superman would almost certainly come up with some way to change their trajectory so no one was hurt.
Omni-Man is way closer to Superman than the likes of Homelander, but still orders of magnitude below Clark. The easiest fact to go by is that Viltrumites can approach the sun's surface but will slowly roast to death when touching it's outer layer whereas Kryptonians can dive all the way in, spend indefinite amounts of time meditating inside of it and come out unphased. The difference between both feats of durability is quite astronomical.
Omni man isn't close at all
The superman crotch surfing has to end in these crossover match ups smh
Proof of how Omni-man wins, then?
I’m a DBZ fan but I know that Sup will slap the soul out of Omni-man. I 100% legit
Ok I knew superman would win but lets be for real, He wouldn't showboat like that during an intense battle like that. I get that he showboats sometimes but we didn't see him doing that against doomsday or darkseid
Nobody can match the man of steel. Super man is the quintessential super hero, and alway will be.
I love the animation it's like being back in the early 2000s playing skull kid
Cool
Imagine superman after he obsorbs the sun for 1000 years...
Omni man gets squashed like a bug
Strongest version of Supes wipes the floor with the strongest version of Omni Man. Supes can survive flying through the sun, Omni Man can't.
other superhero's can survive kryptonite , superman cant 😂😂
way to list weakneses
@@davidvar1027 which kryptonite? Green doesn't do jack at this point