The V1 tube (furthest away from power tubes) is the preamp tube and position that the 12AY7 normally resides. The V2 tube is a phase inverter and is typically a 12AX7 tube. To get more gain you can add a 12AX7 tube in the V1 position. However, tone isn't as sweet and these amps shine with a 12AY7 in the V1 position. Electro Harmonics and Groove Tubes make a better 12AY7 tube than JJ. JJ 6V6 power tubes sound great in these amps. A NOS rectifier tube (GE, RCA, Sylvania, CBS, Hytron, etc.) is essential for proper B+ voltage drop and amp tone. NOS 12AY7 tubes sound the best (e.g. GE and RCA with triple mica, etc.) Rob Robinette has the best 5E3 tweed deluxe website on the planet and includes great mods.
This is how an A,B should be done. Need to compare like for like. Not wait 3 mins with a load of effects added then repeat. You cannot easily compare that way. Thanks 👍
I like the cleaner headroom of the 12AY7 tubes. Both of my vibroluxes are set up with all AT7s in the appropriate spots so I can crank them and hardly get any distortion. That let's me use pedals for all that while retaining a great clean tone without.
Well the 12AY7 is V1 in the original spec of the 5E3, so this should be a highly relevant comparison (if the tubes are in the correct position - which also means that he should be explaining it wrong in the intro of the video...)
My question as well! either he is mixed up, or he is changing out the wrong tube! because the tube closest to the power tubes is the phase inverter. Stock on these for preamp is the 12AY7
V1 is the tube closest to the guitar input jack and that preamp tube is the first step in the preamp circuit. The preamp circuit is where all the "tube" gain comes in a tube amp. I use 12AU7 tubes as they have a gain factor of 16% as opposed to the 100% gain factor of the 12AX7 tube! The 12AY7 has a gain factor of 45%, which is still too much gain if the amp has a hi-gain circuit design. Only the 12AU7 can calm the gain and make the amp "clean" amp that is clean at all volumes. That's the point here, right? -Peter
I figured the point here was just to show the general difference. It doesn’t make any sense to me to buy a Tweed Deluxe and then try to make it into a “clean to 10” amp. If that’s what you’re after it would make way more sense to buy something like a Blackface Princeton Amp (non-reverb) or Twin Reverb, and then you don’t have to change anything.
I'm curious as to what was originally in this amp, since the stock tube complement specified for the 5E3 circuit is a 12AY7 in the preamp, and a 12AX7 for the phase splitter. You say you're swapping the tube closest to the power tubes, so that's the phase splitter, but the phase splitter is already supposed to be a 12AX7. The tweed amps have so little headroom that I personally don't understand why anyone would put a 12AX7 in place of a 12AY7, but I prefer low-gain overdrive to high-gain distortion.
the original valve for tweed 1st position should be AY7. I put a AT7 in the 3rd position and it is great now. much more like a blackface with less mids and more clarity.
Just to echo what has already been commented really mate. Valve comparisons like this, or when you want to accurately hear how swapping valves will affect your tone, always do the swap with V1 instead of V3 or V4, which is likely to be the phase inverter valve, because even though you could hear a difference by swapping that valve, it will be more pronounced when you swap V1. Another handy tip is this - If I remember correctly a 12AY7 will give you either 60 or 70% (I get 12AY7s & 12AT7s mixed up unless I check my notes) of the gain that a 12AX7 will give you. However, a 5751 valve gives you about 80% of the gain of a 12AX7. Last year I bought a few GEC 5751s and swapped the V1 12AX7 in my Laney Lionheart which was the T.A.D brand, and what a nice difference in tone the 5751 made. I mean it was already a great sounding amp before I did the swap, which I only did as an experiment for my own curiosity but I've kept the 5751 in my amp ever since. Swapping just the V1 valve saves you a load of money because you don't need to swap the rest of your pre amp valves to get the benefit of different amp sounds, just swapping the V1 is enough. 👍
To my ears, 12ax7 clips more compressed more and more harmonic while the 12at7 gives more headroom and shorter sustain. Both are nice character depend on what one want. Very nice review, thanks.
relly dont need effects if you're trying to hear the tone of each tube
The V1 tube (furthest away from power tubes) is the preamp tube and position that the 12AY7 normally resides. The V2 tube is a phase inverter and is typically a 12AX7 tube. To get more gain you can add a 12AX7 tube in the V1 position. However, tone isn't as sweet and these amps shine with a 12AY7 in the V1 position. Electro Harmonics and Groove Tubes make a better 12AY7 tube than JJ. JJ 6V6 power tubes sound great in these amps. A NOS rectifier tube (GE, RCA, Sylvania, CBS, Hytron, etc.) is essential for proper B+ voltage drop and amp tone. NOS 12AY7 tubes sound the best (e.g. GE and RCA with triple mica, etc.) Rob Robinette has the best 5E3 tweed deluxe website on the planet and includes great mods.
0:34 clean AY7
1:28 clean AX7
Would've loved to see how the AY7 affects clean headroom with humbuckers!
Thanks for the time marks
This is how an A,B should be done. Need to compare like for like. Not wait 3 mins with a load of effects added then repeat. You cannot easily compare that way. Thanks 👍
0:44 Slightly Crunchy AY7
1:39 Slightly Crunchy AX7
I like the cleaner headroom of the 12AY7 tubes. Both of my vibroluxes are set up with all AT7s in the appropriate spots so I can crank them and hardly get any distortion. That let's me use pedals for all that while retaining a great clean tone without.
I agree I run a 12ay7 in V1 and a 5751 in V2.
Great video. The 12ax7 sounds like it has more character and more possibilities to shape the sound.
It is different, but its very subtle
Roman I've watched your videos for years and I've always admired your playing with a delay. I'm glad you're still putting out videos for us
Why are you not comparing V1 tube instead of "tube closest to power tubes"? That doesn't matter hardly at all and V1 totally matters.
Well the 12AY7 is V1 in the original spec of the 5E3, so this should be a highly relevant comparison (if the tubes are in the correct position - which also means that he should be explaining it wrong in the intro of the video...)
My question as well! either he is mixed up, or he is changing out the wrong tube! because the tube closest to the power tubes is the phase inverter. Stock on these for preamp is the 12AY7
Great demonstration
Thanks for laying it out for us
A Harp player thinking of changing
My harp player says this is still too loud and now wants a champ
V1 is the tube closest to the guitar input jack and that preamp tube is the first step in the preamp circuit. The preamp circuit is where all the "tube" gain comes in a tube amp. I use 12AU7 tubes as they have a gain factor of 16% as opposed to the 100% gain factor of the 12AX7 tube! The 12AY7 has a gain factor of 45%, which is still too much gain if the amp has a hi-gain circuit design. Only the 12AU7 can calm the gain and make the amp "clean" amp that is clean at all volumes. That's the point here, right?
-Peter
I figured the point here was just to show the general difference. It doesn’t make any sense to me to buy a Tweed Deluxe and then try to make it into a “clean to 10” amp. If that’s what you’re after it would make way more sense to buy something like a Blackface Princeton Amp (non-reverb) or Twin Reverb, and then you don’t have to change anything.
@@darwinsaye I was referring to tube amps in general and not any specific model. I never mentioned a word about a Fender Tweed Deluxe.
excellent tests
Closest to the power tubes should be the phase inverter position.
Exactly.. Wtf
I think he meant furthest away from P tubes
I'm curious as to what was originally in this amp, since the stock tube complement specified for the 5E3 circuit is a 12AY7 in the preamp, and a 12AX7 for the phase splitter. You say you're swapping the tube closest to the power tubes, so that's the phase splitter, but the phase splitter is already supposed to be a 12AX7. The tweed amps have so little headroom that I personally don't understand why anyone would put a 12AX7 in place of a 12AY7, but I prefer low-gain overdrive to high-gain distortion.
my Victoria has ay7 1st position and I put a at7 in the 3rd position. it's great now. more like a blackface
you are right
The 12AY7 is a lot cleaner. And the 12AX7 crunch is really nice. I wonder if you get the same crunch out of the 12AY7 with a drive pedal in front?
SRV used the 5751 instead of the 12AX7 fwiw
Cool
12AY7 sounds nice and smooth
maybe he started out by buying the wrong amp,
We need a Shnobel tone Tone Print for the delay’s
No apostrophe
the original valve for tweed 1st position should be AY7. I put a AT7 in the 3rd position and it is great now. much more like a blackface with less mids and more clarity.
Great tip for Tweed Deluxe owners like myself. Mahalos!
Funny how ppl like less mids
You put a AT7 in v3? I’m confused. I thought that is where a 6v6 goes. Do you mean v1 or v2?
12AY7: 0:34
12AX7: 1:28
they make amps with 2 channels! who's going to turn yup the volume when you want to kick it midway thru?
shoulda got a deluxe reverb
12AX7 more bright.
Also less compressed
Just to echo what has already been commented really mate. Valve comparisons like this, or when you want to accurately hear how swapping valves will affect your tone, always do the swap with V1 instead of V3 or V4, which is likely to be the phase inverter valve, because even though you could hear a difference by swapping that valve, it will be more pronounced when you swap V1.
Another handy tip is this - If I remember correctly a 12AY7 will give you either 60 or 70% (I get 12AY7s & 12AT7s mixed up unless I check my notes) of the gain that a 12AX7 will give you. However, a 5751 valve gives you about 80% of the gain of a 12AX7.
Last year I bought a few GEC 5751s and swapped the V1 12AX7 in my Laney Lionheart which was the T.A.D brand, and what a nice difference in tone the 5751 made. I mean it was already a great sounding amp before I did the swap, which I only did as an experiment for my own curiosity but I've kept the 5751 in my amp ever since.
Swapping just the V1 valve saves you a load of money because you don't need to swap the rest of your pre amp valves to get the benefit of different amp sounds, just swapping the V1 is enough. 👍
For my ears the 12AY7 was best, first on my phone & second from a pair of alright speakers. Thanks
You make everything sound great !!!!!
what microphone is that?
its a Sennheiser e906 microphone
12AY7 PERIOD
Thanks for a great video!
To my ears, 12ax7 clips more compressed more and more harmonic while the 12at7 gives more headroom and shorter sustain. Both are nice character depend on what one want. Very nice review, thanks.
I find the ax7 less compressed
Maybe because it breaks up differently
Nicer
JJ Tbs Rocks!!
Thanks, great video!
why do a demo with pedals ... you would have been better with direct in to the amp ..
i have a question. if i wanted to buy a delay pedal, which one would you recommend?
mxr echoplex
@@andremellao4882 i bought that one actually. thanks
12ax7 has more of the bite you come to expect from a tube amp
depth, warmth is the place to start, if you want bite, get a tube screamer and a compressor like everone else, we're not on Hee Haw
Good!!!😃😃😃
The best video!
I think a 5751 is just perfect as V1 as it is only 70% of the gain a 12AX7 has. A 12AX7 is just a bit much for my liking.