Dash is really good at amongus. He sees peoples quirks as well as Jacob does, maybe even better - watching from his PoV, hes constantly making calls on who it is or whats happening with ease. And I think part of why he doesn't play well 90% of the time is that he knows it upsets people when he does actually do well. Every time we get a clip of Dash going genius mode and deducing exactly who it is, someone gets mad about it immediately following. The 'why the one time that you do anything useful' clip being the loudest one, but its disappponting. It feels like he acts as the silliest little guy because if he played with 100% of his brain for a full session, multiple people would probably not wanna play with him anymore.
I think that "the reason he doesn't play seriously is because it'll make people upset" is a weird parasocial assumption because he can both play seriously and act goofy if he wanted to. His POV during their Death Note stream was one of the few times he both actively tried and goofed around, the only reason that he tried was because he said he was intrigued by the mechanics of the game. He was actually one of the few that kind of got the game down and was pretty good at playing it especially during that Kira round with Adriana, but he still made random weird Angry Bird-esque noises and just being a jokester for most of the entire session.
Well, I'd like to propose a different reason, besides just "he's a silly little guy." Despite being an incredible crewmate, he's a terrible impostor, so he deliberately chooses to behave as confusing as possible at all times so he still has a chance when he gets impostor, because anything could be in character for crewmate dash.
Regularly playing a social engineering/deduction game with the same group of people is going to produce meta gaming. I know it sucks and feels bad but acting like people are bad for recognizing patterns in behaviour isn't fair imo. Like Jacob himself will say things like 'I don't think this person is imposter because kills are too slow for them' which is also meta gaming, but I think we can all agree that those sort of assumptions are just part of the game. I think at some point players have to be willing to change up their play style, try new roles/modes etc to mix up game play if they don't want their imposter plays to be predictable.
I agree. People should adapt their behavior to break patterns, it's called getting better at the game, they did it all the time back in 2020. They haven't had to actually logic things out in 4 years.
@@helenforrest03031999the way she killed him was also metagaming tho, i think it’s super lame to get mad at meta gaming bc that’s quite literally just how the game is played if you aren’t willing to change how you play in a social deduction game
And this is why I think the best player is Dash. He can easily switch his playstyle, from trying to be annoying, to just joking around, to trying to look sus on porpuse, to actually playing seriously. He uses what people think he would do to his advantage and I love that
I am Spanish, and I usually watch Mongy Mondays live from bed until I feel sleepy. Yesterday I thought it was strange not to see that there was live, and now I find out that I could have seen this live.
Dash getting jumped pissed me off. If you don’t want to get meta gamed don’t play exactly the same every time. Random deaths with little to no evidence in meetings, Jacob dying immediately, and her “What’s going on” makes it so damn obvious. Then when she meta games it’s ok. I’m not sure why Jacob is so defensive for Della but it wasn’t cool shaming Dash.
haven't finished the VOD yet so it might come up, but crew winning too much may have to do with their vision range getting mistakenly bumped back up to 75% (i think? if I'm wrong disregard it) when it was at 50% previously. dropping it to 50% proved a simple and effective solution to this problem before so it should work again.
I get being annoyed by meta plays but like. It’s one thing to say oh the imposter is playing well, they must be the really good player (which I agree is shitty and unfun) but Della has a pretty noticeable trademark of bold guesses especially with Jacob, and when the point of the game is to go unnoticed, it’s a little weird to talk down on other ppls wins and get tilted when she could’ve just switched up her playstyle every now and again
it’s like if some player called lights and killed first round 90% of the time when no one else usually does it, and got tilted when ppl raised suspicion at them after lights were called and someone got killed first round
Jacob was very quick on accusing Dash of metagaming, but when people pointed out that what Della did could also be classified as metagaming he got really defensive. Della guessed based on 0 ingame information.
This part, hes just very defensive over della which is fine, I think its good to care about your friends. It just starts to be a bit hypocritical when certain types of meta or calling people out ont tells is okay but in other cases it isn't.
ehhhhhh it was kinda borderline in Della's case I think. She had Double Shot, she was tactically spending a resource for information based on her plan for the upcoming round, and it just so happened to result in a kill. Dash literally came in with the 'well who else would guess Jacob that early based on nothing', and I mean he's literally right but it's kind of a buzzkill. When Jacob has that kind of hunch he just goes 'okay, I'm just going to keep an eye out for real evidence based on that vibe'. If there's anything that I would say might be Della's fault here, it's just that. yeah she did in fact kind of lean into it by risking that kill and walking into that situation, because really yeah who else *would* make Jacob suddenly explode in literally the second meeting with so little information. The closest thing to a 'real answer' I can say is that maybe people have to work to get over their meta tells, but experience has kinda shown that that just means you get bullied for a night before giving up and going back to normal (cough cough 'Cade isn't yelling, that's weird, let's vote him out')
@@C_KiriDella didn't guess to make sure he wasn't vet, that was Jacob's assumption. Della explained after that she guessed because she knew Fyrus was dead so it could only be a random sheriff (which was very unlikely) or a vet. Since there was no way of knowing who was the vet, she went: "Jacob would be the type to not say anything after Veteraning somebody". And since she had double shot decided to just guess based on that. That is the same thing Dash did.
@@human_pog3893 Everyone makes plays based on hunches or "metagaming". That's literally the point of double shot (or roles like sheriff and vigilante). Take a guess and, in double shot case, you don't get punished. They just don't want meta guesses to be the reason for voting people out. If you publicly accuse someone, have an in-game reason. I don't have an issue with what altrive did, I think he's hilarious, but the two situations were not the same. In one of the other mongy Mondays, Jacob explained it perfectly. You can obviously use your meta gaming hunches to sus people, but find some kind of in game evidence before presenting to the class. At the end of the day, they're playing to have fun and be entertaining, not to worry about every single move and decision they make. That's literally what killed money Monday in the first place. It's why they always do keys at the beginning, why engineer shouldn't just sit in vents, etc.
Honestly I'd say at some point metagaming is necessary to ensure the players don't repeat the same thing over and over unchecked. Alpharad said it himself. Della has an habit of doing just that whenever she gets double shot. At some point someone was going to recognize the pattern and bring it up. Dash could have easily kept the info for himself and then just hound Della every game she did that play. At least now Della knows she'll get screwed if she pulls that shit again... or I guess she could just kill Dash first since he is the one willing to call that shit. Della could have and should have waited a few more rounds before pulling the trigger.
Meta calls only become an issue when they're just based on perceived statistics. Like, the 'if I don't know who it is, it's probably della' type strats. The more you play with the same group and get to know them, the better you can read them, just like the better they read you, and that's fine, at least in part because it's mutual. It just means you have to become self aware and mix things up. But like, 'if no one is sus x person is sus' is making a meta call against someone, potentially, for what other players are doing, and not what your meta call target is doing, and there's nothing they could really do about it. It becomes witch hunt esque, where either they act sus and get called out or don't act sus and get called out anyways. That's the shit that sucks.
@cjjulius4138 I mainly meant that sussing someone in meeting for tells without any evidence is what could be argued as meta, what happened with Della is not an example of that imo.
I honestly love that Mari won through the Meta comment. It was super ironic and funny. But it seems that it’s kinda sad Joe said he didn’t want to speak up against Della because he didn’t want to upset her. If players are too afraid to speak against another player especially with this game, then it’s not going to be fun for anyone. As a long time VOD Watcher and enjoyer, I also want to point out that other players get meta’d too like Vulpixie, Altrive, Joe, Smith and even Jacob. “Vulpixie has tells” “If Joe isn’t mayor, he’s imposter” “If Della is dead first it’s Jacob” Etc Della also did game meta when she said “well this task takes this long so that’s how I know” which isn’t fun either for those who don’t keep game statistics or speed of tasks Honestly I just believe Della needs to switch her Meta and change up her play style. Play as non-Della a few times to confuse everyone lol I get that it’s among us, but Della gets a lot of leeway compared to everyone else and some of her actions speak otherwise, she uses meta as well and it becomes so noticeable. It just doesn’t seem too fair to the other people and they can end up hurt as well. Of course all that matters is everyone having fun and of course no hate to Della but just an observation
@@zacharyenglish2904 It's not parasocial lol, this is something that Jacob talks about a lot with chat and particularly about Della. But there's only so many times that people can make the same plays without others picking up on it. If a person has tells in gambling, you're not gonna feel bad by calling them and taking the money, that's part of the game and they need to adapt. Stakes are obviously lower here, but the point is still that if you feel like you're losing because people are finding some of your habits, you shouldn't get upset and instead try switching it up, healthier for you and makes the game more diverse.
"well this task takes this long so that's how I know" is NOT meta gaming. that's just general game knowledge. sorry for the semantics but I feel like they apply here I could play among us with a group of complete strangers right now and if someone spends 2 seconds doing simon says and leaves then I'll know they're faking because that thing takes way longer. Meta gaming is far more player-specific than that, and is something that is generally developed after playing with specific people for long periods of time (I'm not arguing it's not lame for the people involved--that's up to every individual group) I don't have a strong opinion either way, I just wanted to point this out because you weakened your argument a bit by raising that as a point imo
@@messssIn all fairness I think it depends. If someone spends 3 seconds on a 10 second task, that’s just obvious. But if someone spends 5 seconds on a 6 second task then…I wouldn’t say meta gaming necessarily but is still frustrating.
Della and somewhat Jaiden are so annoyingly sensitive and just bring the vibe down. Then of course Jacob coddles them and lets them win so they don't get sad. Jaiden isn't a super tryhard like Della so it's not nearly as bad with her.
In the crew's complete defense, Investigator saw Della kill during hypnotist, they just didn't need to role reveal since the sus was already there, crew always won that game. Especially on Della if it was a kill in front of crew since tracker and investigator both would know, but I'll give Della the benefit of the doubt. I also think you can't blame meta game if a crew is randomly guessed with no sus and the impostor didn't need to, it was very clear to dash that it was veteran guess because no other crew role needed to be guessed at that point in the game and it would have been Della doing it. Unfortunate for Della but making repeat plays like that in situations where impostor doesn't need to guess will always bring suspicion.
Yea, also Della is meta guessing Jacob as veteran and somehow thats not a problem... I think it's kinda weird to pretend to not notice consistent trends in a player's behaviour and let them get away with it over and over. Also Jacob uses meta to suspect Della when she is like "I dont know whats going on" so I dont see the problem...
@Alpharad yeah I understand that perspective, you don't necessarily need to bring up that info to be voted on. I think what Della did would make more sense if you were reporting someone she didn't kill and they were the impostor. She knew veteran was likely in play because of the impostor being dead and took the shot on you which is why she was sussed, but there wasn't any big reason to guess you in particular, Dash called out the fact that you were guessed off no role revealing info. Not many crew roles besides medic can be guessed so early like that (at least to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) in a long meeting where no role info on you was brought up, he understood Della yolod the double tap on you, and I think what he did is as fair as the guess imo. In a different situation I think if you had slipped a hint at your role during the meeting it would be a completely different story because being guessed for that is a totally fair deduction, it would suck if people voted Della because "she's good at the game" like has happened in the past, but I wouldn't really say that this play was like that. Sorry for yapping XD
I feel like the entire "meta" conversation just sucks from all angles. I don't think Dash can be blamed for using his sus. That meta knowledge naturally evolves over time and I don't think it is necessarily wrong to use that. Della loses the game because of the meta knowledge, which sucks. Jacob arguably gets metagamed, which no matter if it was or not, only added to the fire. When it is continuously brought up, it just weighs down the mood of everyone involved, which is part of the reason for biweekly Mongy Monday. For the game to feel good for everyone, the community should probably stop engaging in it so much, and the players probably need to not dwell on it so much. This example is just one of many, and as someone who loves to watch this group, the "drama" never feels good when it is supposed to be a bunch of friends having fun.
I completely agree, also weird going against Dash matagaming when the kill on themselves was a metagame kill that also got confirmed but not called out, even tho dash then explained that his metagame hunch was actually just a way to cover for his investigator role...
Also agree. While in general i agree one should avoid metagaming too much, and specifically telling others your metagame hunches (because having meta knowledge is natural)... The kill itself was Della metagaming. Using meta knowledge to solve a meta kill is a little different than using meta knowledge to solve a role-based kill.
@@fancypants3828 his whole thing with della is a big metagame between both of them. her using double tap to just randonly guess veteran on him just to make sure he is or not, just because she knows he is the smartest one in the group who knows her strats best (aside from dash but dash is a clown most of time except when he just decides he is not) so she put him as a high priority target, that itself is a metagame, and he does the same with her. this is a game about wits and deduction you cant just not metagame when you know the people youre with, theyre not strangers.
On the topic of 'how do we fix the impostor losing streak, would adding back Executioner fix that', I dunno if it's something modders can make happen but I had the thought once that maybe the secret sauce would be making Executioner and Jester a team where the Executioner is trying to help the Jester get voted out. Because nobody feels good being the Executioner target, but Executioner adds a lot of chaos, and meanwhile Jester has a really really hard time winning unless you're Altrive. I think that could at least potentially be really interesting. Really volatile and potentially hard to play against because two people corroborating each other's win con like that could end up being really strong, but I mean if the problem is 'crew has gotten too good', that could be a way to poison the well of information passively at all times.
It’s like the tanner and apprentice in ultimate werewolf. I think it would require new roles though, just so that the other 2 can, more specifically jester, can still be used in the original way
It's a neat idea, but, neutral roles are tricky just because, like, you have to keep the goal in mind. The problem isn't necessarily that crew is winning too much, but more that impostor is losing too much. As crew gets better at being crew, impostors are having to sweat harder and harder for worse results, and that ends up in people not enjoying getting 'stuck with' the evil team. Disinformation is vital for making the evil team's job easier, but, if you do that by buffing neutral roles with alternate win conditions, does that help? Crew might win fewer games, but, if impostors are also winning fewer games, you've failed the one thing you were trying to do.
@@DaBoweh My thought process is this, right: Neutral Killing roles being added is definitely too disruptive to regular gameplay because they might kill the Impostors and run the game in undesirable directions, so that's why that's out. But in making the Neutral roles specifically a team with an alt-wincon, and that wincon being 'lie your ass off and make it believable', you're messing with Crew as much as possible without actually directly damaging the Impostors' plan-- because Crew will be more wary with more people working against them, which means you'll have more meetings that go nowhere, which means Impostors have more time, and all *they* have to do is get 6-8 kills over the course of the game. Also, doing this by buffing Jester makes a lot of sense to me personally, because Jester is seemingly in a really, really bad spot lately, even worse than Impostor, because nowadays what do you even do, you hope to find a body and stand on it? You're fighting for your life when literally all you can do is have Impostor vision and hop into a vent and make 'mistakes' that nobody in the lobby is doing anymore. And by making Jester stronger, you have actually improved the defense Impostors have against them-- because we're at a point now where if you call Jester *too quickly*, you start sounding like an Impostor trying not to lose. If Jester is a stronger role to be more concerned about, because they have backup, and you have more reason to throw an entire reasonable-sounding story in the garbage because 'what if they're both making things up', not only do you sound less bad, but you have more ammunition to turn people against each other, which potentially keeps their eyes off you. I dunno if it would absolutely 100% produce the desired result, but what it would do is change how people are playing, and Impostors win more games when people are less sure of what they're doing. Could be a worthwhile experiment, if nothing else, just to keep things fresh. (Also making Executioner part of a pair in my mind solves the problem of 'Executioner feels bad to play and worse to be on the receiving end of' because you're not trying t fuck over a specific person *out* of their win-con, it becomes a cooperative thing, and I just like that idea personally)
@@C_KiriI was with you but the other guy is right. The problem is Imposter loses too much, not that crew wins too much. Your solution makes crew win less a jester win more. It doesn't solve imposter not winning enough.
Not to be that guy but commenters have a point. You cant do the same thing every time and expect different results. Have a little more respect for Dash. And before someone makes the ‘parasocial’ comment that’s not what I’m trying to say. If you’re going to stream this to thousands, it’s not good to create situations that will make your viewers uncomfortable to see even if you yourself had different feelings.
I feel like It’s like poker, if you’re playing with your chips every time you bluff people are gonna notice and call you on that shit. Don’t have easy tells like that or you’re gonna get beat. Switch it up if you notice you’re starting to play the same every time. Idk seems kinda logical to me. Doesn’t seem like meta if the person is doing the same thing every time. I feel like saying “oh this must’ve been a good player therefore I think it’s della” is stupid and meta which maybe they thought dash was doing bit it didn’t really seem like he was with full context.
Metagaming seems like a fraught topic; Della impostor (in particular) plays very differently to Della crew so they're more likely to be a victim of it, which of course is no fun. That's one of the big flaws of playing with friends: eventually you learn people's tells and impostors have a massive hill to overcome. Not sure there's a good solution to it, banning all 'vibes' arguments?
TLDR; Confirmation bias from vibes is an even more ubiquitous metagaming force than directly arguing on vibes alone, & is impossible to regulate. The most successful imposters are less active as crew, so maintaining the most favorable imposter position (keeping your mouth shut & letting crew eat each-other without implicating yourself) isn't suspicious. Vibe flags aren't raised, & they get more buffer before they start taking heat for other imposter-ish behaviors. Sucks but there's not much you can do about it without mind-control. If you ban vibe arguments they will look for other reasons to accuse that person, but it will still be because of a vibe. It's relying on conscious confirmation bias by gathering evidence to support an existing conclusion for argument's sake, rather than forming a conclusion based on evidence. The argument itself isn't based on vibes, but the investigation & interpretation of evidence is. Mr. Streamer already does this occasionally; because "they're acting different" isn't usually a solid enough argument, he'll collect & eventually pick apart a bunch of suspicious-if-you-squint behaviors from that person to form a case. I don't think it's possible to ban or regulate confirmation bias (that will inevitably come from vibes a lot of the time); & even if you could, it would require such stringent rules that it removes most of the "social" element of the "social deduction" game. But yeah it probably sucks getting rolled because you're so good & active as crew that your silence/"mistakes" in deduction as imposter stand out in stark contrast. Della eats the worst of it because she's arguably the best crew in mongy monday, & she's otherwise a fantastic imposter, so the best "evidence" against her is often that she just isn't contributing much; & good luck trying to balance that out by making up/jumping on false claims, drawing heat to yourself even if you're *NOT* disproven (which will be fairly often because it's total bullshit). Giwi can get away with staying pretty quiet & not even pretending to do tasks because she does that as crew anyway; Della & Jacob in particular have a steep uphill battle just on the other players' notions of them being really good at crew. The most successful imposters in this group seem to have crew behaviors that happen to lend themselves better to a low-profile game, making them much harder to metagame. Giwi & Fir come to mind; on top of just being very good imposters, they're not the most frequent meeting leaders. Which, compared to Della & Jacob, seems to buy them more time.
Not playing the same as usual is also a skill. If you're playing with your friends and they know your "tells", you have to adjust your habits. But losing due to "vibe" is a whole different sad story
The solution is to take advantage of your tells. There are ways to play sloppy, intentionally, because your form of optimal play is too predictable. The problem is that taking the game to that sort of level is some sweaty tryhard shit that isn't particularly fun for most people, let alone instinctive. There's counterplay from a competitive standpoint but they're playing these games to enjoy themselves, not to take home a title. Buffing impostors is a fine way to go about things, which is what Alpha and crew have done traditionally. It's not necessarily about mechanical competitive balance and more about making sure that impostors can play the way they want to play and still have fun with it. The more bad information and neutral actors muddying up the works, the more the actual impostors get to sit back and observe other players fighting amongst themselves.
no hate to no one but as an avid vod watcher calling Dash out for meta gaming is, at best, silly, and at worst, very disingenuine, as everyone here has their tells and gets called out on them, wich is "meta", the only way this would not happen would be if people were new every week, wich also doesn't seem to be fun.
Meta-gaming is unfortunate, but in situations where something really weird just happened, and one of a few explanations is meta-gaming, it's incredibly difficult to look past that, especially in Dash's case where he KNEW Jacob was veteran. At that point, the only option is that Jacob got guessed, and the only one who could've/would've taken that shot is Della. Once you know, even through meta-gaming, that it's Della, it's then super easy to tunnel and collect evidence anyway.
That Della "got voted from metagame" game I don't know. On one hand its Dash. He's gonna vote Della anyways, but like the guess on Jacob is like a confirmation. Nobody guesses Jacob like her. But also she just was not crew at all that game. That's not reason to vote her, but everyone else is just so much more crew.
I get not metagaming when you like hear something through someone's mic or don't go into Jaiden's room to see if she's impostor (not that anyone would do that), but idk like thinking that it might be Della if Jacob gets guessed or it might be GIWI if the imposter is playing well? Knowing an imposter is Altrive if kills are slow because he's too wholesome? I understand it's not information you got strictly from that game but surely isn't adapting to the play of your group part of the fun?
@@ConnorGrummer Can be, but certainly not for everyone. Especially the case of "Impostors are good". This is not just a group of friends hanging out and having fun, they're trying to have entertaining streams and videos as well. Voting on "impostor is good" just feels really shitty, if it's the only thing. The alternative is playing bad and getting caught, so it's a lose-lose situation for della, giwi, etc. Use meta gaming to guide your game plan, don't use it to accuse others. As Jacob said before, it's usually pretty easy to dig up some dirt on someone when you already have suspicions. Then accuse them based on that instead.
@@DaTimmeh But it wasn't just "impostor is good", it was "Jacob exploded for no reason in discussion early in the game on top of other evidence I found." There's very few people who'd make a call like that with little-no info (Della being one of them), and if an impostor did somehow find Jacob's role it'd again have to be somebody extremely good at deducting and willing to make a bold play (again, Della is one of few who fits this mold). Plus Della and Jacob historically have beef: based on experience, subconsciously or not, she is going to be who players find suspicious as a result. Better to voice it out then to not say anything about it at all.
57:40 Meta gaming DOES suck, but that kind of kill also sucks.. And, unfortunately, you can't just NOT know who does it after a certain amount of games. Even Alpha knew the thought process right as it happened.
To be honest, I think metagaming is completely fair. People are always guessing your role because they know the way you play? Then just play differently. Adapt, that's how the game works. That's like complaining that people tell you're lying when they discover you're lying, don't complain, improve at lying. It's a SOCIAL deduction game and the fact you're playing with friends makes "metagaming" part of it. If you don't want metagaming, why not play with randoms or bots or something like that? You can go out of your way to change your strategy, or even try to copy someone else's to accuse them. EVERYONE is ALWAYS metagaming, even if it's not noticable, that's just how our brains work. Complaining when someone metagames in a more obvious sense doesn't solve anything, you're just getting annoyed at someone that does the same thing everyone does, but admits it consciously and vocally. "Hating meta calls" is just hating the more obvious metagaming, not metagaming itself. "Hating meta calls" is hating being punished for always using the same strategy. People are eventually going to caught up to you. If you want to play mind games read other people in this game you need to accept that YOU are going to be read too unless you change your game plan.
using role knowledge isn't really meta gaming in social deduction games, it's not even close to as bad as saying something like "it has to be x person because only they're good enough to play like this", or "killer is x, because they're new and only new people would do x". using role knowledge is in the same tier as using task knowledge or any other actual in game knowledge.
Della guessing Jacob was veteran based on "That's how a veteran player plays" is by definition meta-gaming. You use the context clues of how that role is played to deduce if a player is playing that role. It's less annoying because it's not based on "That's how Jacob plays Veteran", whereas Pikmin 5's guess was based on how Della plays against Jacob. So yes it's meta-gaming, but it's less egregious.
i think meta gaming is a key part of mafia like games if you play with a group of people that you know you cannot just ignore clear signs of suspicion and they should be trying their best to hide those suspicious traits it removes alot of skill and interest from a game about social engineering if you cant use social cues, thats the whole fun of playing with the same group of people rather then a different group everytime. also everyone including alpha does it, like if alpha says "it cant be [person] because the kills are too fast" thats text book meta gaming it can suck if you waited to be imposter and you died because of something not directly related to the game, but unless it was literally just someone being random then that is unfortunately a skill issue very much so feels like meta gaming is okay if its you or one of your closer friends doing it, but if it happens to you or to them then its lame also none of that really matters that much, but everyone jumping on altrive for "meta gaming" or any unserious allegation just feels abit shitty when its just meant to be a game to have fun with friends in. if you notice someone getting ganged up on for something like that you should just move on and forget it. even if altrive didnt care, thats a very likely way to make someone feel alienated and i dont think you should treat friends like that
Jacob complaining about the lobby metagaming against Della, but Della's guess on you as vet is metagame logic. She didn't guess vet because she saw any in-game evidence, and you didn't say anything to rouse suspicion, and it wasn't a raw random guess. It was her metagaming the roles and double-shot. I don't get why you'd be upset at Dash for calling that out? Regardless, I'd just choose to call it unfortunate and just move on.
Fun fact: The only people that cry about metagaming are the people that are best at the game, because without "metagaming" they are unstopabble. You wouldn't even be mad if Dash just said "I have a hunch it's Della" without explaining why. You see that your anger is flawed when it is only justified if he admitted it was because of "metagaming". Don't like being metagamed? Change your playstyle once in a while or play off other people's expectation's, like Altrive does.
Hella nah why is Alpha defending della there lmao. Della was the one that metagamed in that game first, and Dash did after that it was a fair game if you're gonna metagame kill someone. There's no excuse there too since atleast dash had a reason to doubt della while della was just out to fcking kill Alpha. IDK man if i see unreasonable glazing just gonna switch to Dash pov
Yeah, I love watching the group play, and Alpha is the only person here I'm subbed to since I've been watching him since Smash 4, but I'm real close to switching PoVs at this point. Really tired of all the favoritism he shows at others expense as well as general hypocrisy on this stuff. Switching to another PoV will at least mitigate some of it for all the times he mutes to get overly defensive.
I wouldn't mind seeing Executioner return with the setting that doesn't end the game. Makes sussing more sus, but it's also not countered as hard since it's not game loss for everyone else
I also want to see that, the problem they were having with executioner is that no one liked being forced to lie and make up facts to accuse their friends. This is a group of friends at the end of the day, and while Jacob obviously wants to put on a fun game, no one liked being the role. Maybe it gets better because the game doesn't end immediately, so there is less pressure to try to force your lies into the conversation.
@@andreabustos3208 Well, they did it in the newest VOD. You still win the game, it's just that the others can play the game even after you finish what you were set out to do. It's not being instantly punished for voting one random person out, but they also reach their wincon and win with the others that won, whether that be crew or impostors.
i'm not from the eu but i end up being a vodwatcher because of attention span issues, it's really nice to be able to pause this and do some other stuff then come back when i'm waiting to play a set or whatnot.
Going to be honest. Meta gaming is simply natural when playing a game like this. Its inevitable. If being meta is a problem then you are suppose to switch up the way you play and even if someone susses someone off nothing thats also part of the game. I know this because it happens all the time even in some of the mongy vods where one person kills and somehow the other imposter gets all the sus either due to movement or general cues in someone's behavior. People tend to catch on to those when you play with the same people for a long time. I feel like the whole meta gaming rule is just in place to avoid the harsher reality of a social engineering game which is fair, but its reasonable to expect people to find a lidl less enjoyment out of not letting it be a thing because in all fairness I believe altrive's sus was genuine and I wouldn't be shocked to anyone that would think the same if put in a similar situation. With all that said I feel that metagaming should be allowed as metagaming itself isn't a surefire way and the person could still not be what they are accused of being based on external cues. The rule is basically just there to avoid "drama" which if you are playing games like this to the fullest extent possible you will inevitably have arguments. I play the new death note game with some friends as well on discord and while we get in a few arguments and say stuff like "well you guys are going to lose if you vote me" or "How the fuck am I getting suspected" etc, we all know its all fun and games, have tons of fun, and get along right after while talking about le epic rounds because if people are good friends and respect each other, then a game like this shouldn't hurt too bad.
I don't understand the meta game thing. So analyzing player behavior on some people, but not on others? Dash cannot analyze Della being big brained because it's metagame. But people can analyze when Dash is being a third imposter? Just seems like a double standard to me. Plus, it's an investigation type game, you kinda have to "meta game" all the time. I just don't get it
I want a mod where if the Guardian angel loses their protectee to a kill they become an Avenging angel where they must kill the protectee's killer to win.
To add to that, maybe the GA sees everyone as gray except for their protectee. So it's even if they see someone kill their protectee they have to guess.
That's an interesting idea. I think I like it without more cause it gives a reason for imposters to fear someone getting GA role and avoiding crew pairs more.
The meta gaming tangent is kinda frustrating because i think theres a certain level of meta to any multiplayer game, especially among us. I think logic was used and i think thats fairplay, if you know people well enough you know how they think. Punishing or arguing against that doesnt feel fair to me. Though i get the frustration to some degree. 90% of chats you reply to are negative and thats gotta be so bad for you, you gotta address things sure but i do think it takes its toll. I know the comments here is full of it. So i feel bad contributing.
i was halfway through the previous weeks vod when jacob randomly dropped the fact he was doing an eu friendly stream and i literally joined halfway through but had a butt ton of stuff to do and rejoined during the very last game
"Some people are so online they have the American sleep schedule" I have the opposite problem, half my online friends are EU/AUS/Asia time zones and every day I have off I am halfway across the clock about it.
@@Red_Phobic2I agree with you on that, but on that note I also believe that the “metagaming” wasn’t a lame play either. Della always hard targets Jacob whether as imposter or crew so it was pretty obvious that she was the imposter in that scenario
@@EpicestGamer2It's their mutual agreement that they target each other when one is evil. And the veteran guess strat is pretty fair, cuz it utilises the tools the imp has to kill someone safely. And as jacob said, imps are having a hard time winning right now, so a strat benefit the imp is a net positive for balance
Meta-gaming is gonna happen, especially as much time as you guys spend together, you can't take that out of who you are and what you know, and taking it to butthurt town is childish at best.
49:28 I don't agree with the neutral killer reasoning, just because there are other roles that can do the same, if someone got imposter and they get sheriff shot in dropship, they won't feel any better than a glitch doing it, I thought it was because newer players and even the old ones would have to readjust and consider them more, though I'm pretty sure they would only bring back glitch if anything Also after October ended and freaky jailor came to an end, jailors have become scared, they have a role that can kill the moment a meeting starts, and they never kill anyone.
The jailor is crew, they should be scared. If they are wrong all they have done is helped the imposter out. Sure, the round where Nancy had them both jailed and didn't take the shot looked like she was a bad jailor, but if you don't have proper info, you shouldn't take the shot in the first place. If she wasn't locked in and knew that she had it right, she wasn't going to do the imposter job for them.
2:07:45 personally, I will always have a soft spot for Little Caesars, it’s my comfort pizza that I’ll even eat cold sometimes. That sounds gross to some people but that’s how I much I like their pizza
I mean if i run the same strats on every time as imposter maybe i should mix up my strategy instead of doing the same thing every time. That feels like basic strats, not "unfair metagame"
1:11:23 I just had an epiphany in real time as you were walking back to admin Nandre Sheriffed Pikmin 5 Smith was Amnesiac, was in the room, grabbed Sherriff, and ran Here's to hoping chat brings it up or you have the realization before you find Pikmin 5 because that is going to be *tragic* 1:11:45 Ooh. That is also tragic
A note about executioner. By identifying an executioner you identify two safe people, which narrows down who imposter is. That might be why imposters are winning more
i caught around the last hour of this due to classes, i didnt remember quite how long i watched and then all of a sudden the meeting with "is sam hypnotist hmmm" and then nancy hopping in a vent gave me such intense deja vu i went ah ik where i am (and then watched the chat for past me asking about mongy multiplier)
Yo! A hat in time conductor in the thumbnail! Nice. Obviously, I'm happy he's playing conductor in general, but the confidence to put it in the thumbnail is great.
Siento que lo del meta-gaming fue culpa de Della al principio. Ella la cagó al matar a Jacob sin justificación alguna en junta, digo una cosa son sus acuerdos mutuos y otra cosa es que los demás sepan, actuen acorde y que no se les haga de "???". El adivinar su rol como veterano fue de la nada, por eso hizo pensar a Altrive de que era algo de entre ellos dos, y como Jacob y Della tienen esos acuerdos de matarse apenas uno u otro es impostor, pues por eso. En mi opinión que nadie pidió, y de metiche, de un evento que ya pasó: Della debió esperarse para encontrar una oportunidad de acusar a Jacob de "veterano" o que el tema salga a la luz, que sí se da y es bastante común que se de el debate de si fue veterano, sheriff o impostor. Aunque, sí, también Altrive al traer eso a la mesa pues no estuvo bien, debió dejárselo más para sí mismo y buscar una manera de inculparla.
I just thought of an insane bomber strat when people are walking behind you but can't see you, you put a bomb in front of a door and close it after you went through
I find it ironic that I, a European, missed this stream because I forgot it was being streamed at a reasonable time for me
I downloaded twitch to specifically watch the stream but completely forgot
SAME... and last week i even thought to make an alarm for it AND I FORGOR
Same
@@Riheinorn same, i completely forgot abt it lol
Exactly
Dash is really good at amongus. He sees peoples quirks as well as Jacob does, maybe even better - watching from his PoV, hes constantly making calls on who it is or whats happening with ease.
And I think part of why he doesn't play well 90% of the time is that he knows it upsets people when he does actually do well.
Every time we get a clip of Dash going genius mode and deducing exactly who it is, someone gets mad about it immediately following. The 'why the one time that you do anything useful' clip being the loudest one, but its disappponting.
It feels like he acts as the silliest little guy because if he played with 100% of his brain for a full session, multiple people would probably not wanna play with him anymore.
I honestly love watching when Dash locks in because he’s just genuinely so good at it like he cooks so hard every time
I think that "the reason he doesn't play seriously is because it'll make people upset" is a weird parasocial assumption because he can both play seriously and act goofy if he wanted to.
His POV during their Death Note stream was one of the few times he both actively tried and goofed around, the only reason that he tried was because he said he was intrigued by the mechanics of the game.
He was actually one of the few that kind of got the game down and was pretty good at playing it especially during that Kira round with Adriana, but he still made random weird Angry Bird-esque noises and just being a jokester for most of the entire session.
Well, I'd like to propose a different reason, besides just "he's a silly little guy." Despite being an incredible crewmate, he's a terrible impostor, so he deliberately chooses to behave as confusing as possible at all times so he still has a chance when he gets impostor, because anything could be in character for crewmate dash.
Genuinely crazy you see it as sad when Altrive is having the time of his life
the what clip?
Regularly playing a social engineering/deduction game with the same group of people is going to produce meta gaming. I know it sucks and feels bad but acting like people are bad for recognizing patterns in behaviour isn't fair imo. Like Jacob himself will say things like 'I don't think this person is imposter because kills are too slow for them' which is also meta gaming, but I think we can all agree that those sort of assumptions are just part of the game. I think at some point players have to be willing to change up their play style, try new roles/modes etc to mix up game play if they don't want their imposter plays to be predictable.
I agree. People should adapt their behavior to break patterns, it's called getting better at the game, they did it all the time back in 2020. They haven't had to actually logic things out in 4 years.
And Della guessing Jacob as veteran so she can kill him safely is kinda meta gaming aswell.
@@jan6580that’s not what she did though, that was Jacob’s theory but she explained that’s not why she killed him
@@helenforrest03031999the way she killed him was also metagaming tho, i think it’s super lame to get mad at meta gaming bc that’s quite literally just how the game is played if you aren’t willing to change how you play in a social deduction game
And this is why I think the best player is Dash. He can easily switch his playstyle, from trying to be annoying, to just joking around, to trying to look sus on porpuse, to actually playing seriously. He uses what people think he would do to his advantage and I love that
Love when Della's here for mongy. The completely fucking diabolical interplay between Jacob and Della is absolute cinema.
absolute cinema 🙌
Time stamps
9:09 crewmate mystic
22:47 crewmate vigilante
32:32 imposter swooper
48:16 neutral amnesiac
1:02:02 crew imitator
1:16:02 crew veteran
1:37:50 crew engineer
1:50:07 crew detective
2:04:48 crew detective
2:19:42 crew tracker
2:38:39 crew detective
2:56:10 crew mystic
3:22:37 crew transporter
3:38:55 crew imitator
3:55:20 imposter grenadier
W doing gods work
Thanks
In brackets next to the role would you mind listing what the power/trait of the role is ? Sometimes it’s hard to read the in game explanation
Thanks
Thank you
@@Orderflow-samaya I can do that no sweat
I am Spanish, and I usually watch Mongy Mondays live from bed until I feel sleepy. Yesterday I thought it was strange not to see that there was live, and now I find out that I could have seen this live.
same😭😭
im mexican and i do the same but for vods lol
@@DaMudkipFan isn't mexico just 1 hour timezone difference at most tho? Still in central America after all
@@invertebradoI think they’re just saying they fall asleep to mongy vods
My friend, I’m with you. Just look at my username, could I be less obvious?
Idk what you want people to do when Della is doing all the things she does everytime she's an imposter and rightfully gets called out for it
Exactly, she repeats impostor behaviours over and over and your arent supposed to point it out???
Dash getting jumped pissed me off. If you don’t want to get meta gamed don’t play exactly the same every time. Random deaths with little to no evidence in meetings, Jacob dying immediately, and her “What’s going on” makes it so damn obvious. Then when she meta games it’s ok. I’m not sure why Jacob is so defensive for Della but it wasn’t cool shaming Dash.
Real, I don’t understand why Dash got attacked for it
glad i wasn't the only one who found that really strange. he kept trying to justify his meta gaming too by claiming it wasn't lmao
idk about the meta thing - that's kinda like saying figuring out someone's tell in gambling is unfair
It's legit what among us is, figure out who's Lyon
haven't finished the VOD yet so it might come up, but crew winning too much may have to do with their vision range getting mistakenly bumped back up to 75% (i think? if I'm wrong disregard it) when it was at 50% previously. dropping it to 50% proved a simple and effective solution to this problem before so it should work again.
Yeah this has been bothering me too :p
I get being annoyed by meta plays but like. It’s one thing to say oh the imposter is playing well, they must be the really good player (which I agree is shitty and unfun) but Della has a pretty noticeable trademark of bold guesses especially with Jacob, and when the point of the game is to go unnoticed, it’s a little weird to talk down on other ppls wins and get tilted when she could’ve just switched up her playstyle every now and again
it’s like if some player called lights and killed first round 90% of the time when no one else usually does it, and got tilted when ppl raised suspicion at them after lights were called and someone got killed first round
@@blunderstruck1 *cough cough* Weegee
Jacob was very quick on accusing Dash of metagaming, but when people pointed out that what Della did could also be classified as metagaming he got really defensive. Della guessed based on 0 ingame information.
This part, hes just very defensive over della which is fine, I think its good to care about your friends. It just starts to be a bit hypocritical when certain types of meta or calling people out ont tells is okay but in other cases it isn't.
ehhhhhh it was kinda borderline in Della's case I think. She had Double Shot, she was tactically spending a resource for information based on her plan for the upcoming round, and it just so happened to result in a kill. Dash literally came in with the 'well who else would guess Jacob that early based on nothing', and I mean he's literally right but it's kind of a buzzkill. When Jacob has that kind of hunch he just goes 'okay, I'm just going to keep an eye out for real evidence based on that vibe'.
If there's anything that I would say might be Della's fault here, it's just that. yeah she did in fact kind of lean into it by risking that kill and walking into that situation, because really yeah who else *would* make Jacob suddenly explode in literally the second meeting with so little information. The closest thing to a 'real answer' I can say is that maybe people have to work to get over their meta tells, but experience has kinda shown that that just means you get bullied for a night before giving up and going back to normal (cough cough 'Cade isn't yelling, that's weird, let's vote him out')
@@C_KiriDella didn't guess to make sure he wasn't vet, that was Jacob's assumption. Della explained after that she guessed because she knew Fyrus was dead so it could only be a random sheriff (which was very unlikely) or a vet. Since there was no way of knowing who was the vet, she went: "Jacob would be the type to not say anything after Veteraning somebody". And since she had double shot decided to just guess based on that. That is the same thing Dash did.
yeah that was really gross to witness :/
@@human_pog3893 Everyone makes plays based on hunches or "metagaming". That's literally the point of double shot (or roles like sheriff and vigilante). Take a guess and, in double shot case, you don't get punished. They just don't want meta guesses to be the reason for voting people out. If you publicly accuse someone, have an in-game reason.
I don't have an issue with what altrive did, I think he's hilarious, but the two situations were not the same.
In one of the other mongy Mondays, Jacob explained it perfectly. You can obviously use your meta gaming hunches to sus people, but find some kind of in game evidence before presenting to the class.
At the end of the day, they're playing to have fun and be entertaining, not to worry about every single move and decision they make. That's literally what killed money Monday in the first place. It's why they always do keys at the beginning, why engineer shouldn't just sit in vents, etc.
Honestly I'd say at some point metagaming is necessary to ensure the players don't repeat the same thing over and over unchecked. Alpharad said it himself. Della has an habit of doing just that whenever she gets double shot. At some point someone was going to recognize the pattern and bring it up. Dash could have easily kept the info for himself and then just hound Della every game she did that play. At least now Della knows she'll get screwed if she pulls that shit again... or I guess she could just kill Dash first since he is the one willing to call that shit.
Della could have and should have waited a few more rounds before pulling the trigger.
Exactly. At bare minimum Della needed to wait a round cause she pulled on him with nothing really after he revealed shit. It was a bad play
Dash using tells = NOT okay, GROSS
Della metagaming = So cool you guys
Meta calls only become an issue when they're just based on perceived statistics. Like, the 'if I don't know who it is, it's probably della' type strats. The more you play with the same group and get to know them, the better you can read them, just like the better they read you, and that's fine, at least in part because it's mutual. It just means you have to become self aware and mix things up. But like, 'if no one is sus x person is sus' is making a meta call against someone, potentially, for what other players are doing, and not what your meta call target is doing, and there's nothing they could really do about it. It becomes witch hunt esque, where either they act sus and get called out or don't act sus and get called out anyways. That's the shit that sucks.
I will say it's not really meta guessing off that, it's a tell, Della targets Jacob and even tests if she can kill him with double tap.
I think you can make the argument that sussing someone in meeting for a tell is meta gaming
@@woomynation Half of among us is lying and deception.
@@woomynationplus he also later argued that using behavior cues isn't meta, which is kinda the same thing
@cjjulius4138 I mainly meant that sussing someone in meeting for tells without any evidence is what could be argued as meta, what happened with Della is not an example of that imo.
@@cjjulius4138 a tell is an unconscious behavior/action, what Della did was not a tell which is why I made that first comment.
I honestly love that Mari won through the Meta comment. It was super ironic and funny.
But it seems that it’s kinda sad Joe said he didn’t want to speak up against Della because he didn’t want to upset her.
If players are too afraid to speak against another player especially with this game, then it’s not going to be fun for anyone.
As a long time VOD Watcher and enjoyer, I also want to point out that other players get meta’d too like Vulpixie, Altrive, Joe, Smith and even Jacob.
“Vulpixie has tells”
“If Joe isn’t mayor, he’s imposter”
“If Della is dead first it’s Jacob”
Etc
Della also did game meta when she said “well this task takes this long so that’s how I know” which isn’t fun either for those who don’t keep game statistics or speed of tasks
Honestly I just believe Della needs to switch her Meta and change up her play style.
Play as non-Della a few times to confuse everyone lol
I get that it’s among us, but Della gets a lot of leeway compared to everyone else and some of her actions speak otherwise, she uses meta as well and it becomes so noticeable. It just doesn’t seem too fair to the other people and they can end up hurt as well.
Of course all that matters is everyone having fun and of course no hate to Della but just an observation
And this weird parasocial stuff is the reason why they do mongy Monday less
@@zacharyenglish2904 It's not parasocial lol, this is something that Jacob talks about a lot with chat and particularly about Della. But there's only so many times that people can make the same plays without others picking up on it. If a person has tells in gambling, you're not gonna feel bad by calling them and taking the money, that's part of the game and they need to adapt. Stakes are obviously lower here, but the point is still that if you feel like you're losing because people are finding some of your habits, you shouldn't get upset and instead try switching it up, healthier for you and makes the game more diverse.
"well this task takes this long so that's how I know" is NOT meta gaming. that's just general game knowledge. sorry for the semantics but I feel like they apply here
I could play among us with a group of complete strangers right now and if someone spends 2 seconds doing simon says and leaves then I'll know they're faking because that thing takes way longer. Meta gaming is far more player-specific than that, and is something that is generally developed after playing with specific people for long periods of time (I'm not arguing it's not lame for the people involved--that's up to every individual group)
I don't have a strong opinion either way, I just wanted to point this out because you weakened your argument a bit by raising that as a point imo
@@messssIn all fairness I think it depends. If someone spends 3 seconds on a 10 second task, that’s just obvious. But if someone spends 5 seconds on a 6 second task then…I wouldn’t say meta gaming necessarily but is still frustrating.
Della and somewhat Jaiden are so annoyingly sensitive and just bring the vibe down. Then of course Jacob coddles them and lets them win so they don't get sad. Jaiden isn't a super tryhard like Della so it's not nearly as bad with her.
In the crew's complete defense, Investigator saw Della kill during hypnotist, they just didn't need to role reveal since the sus was already there, crew always won that game. Especially on Della if it was a kill in front of crew since tracker and investigator both would know, but I'll give Della the benefit of the doubt.
I also think you can't blame meta game if a crew is randomly guessed with no sus and the impostor didn't need to, it was very clear to dash that it was veteran guess because no other crew role needed to be guessed at that point in the game and it would have been Della doing it. Unfortunate for Della but making repeat plays like that in situations where impostor doesn't need to guess will always bring suspicion.
della meta gamed to kill jacob it’s fair game 🤷♂️
Yea, also Della is meta guessing Jacob as veteran and somehow thats not a problem... I think it's kinda weird to pretend to not notice consistent trends in a player's behaviour and let them get away with it over and over. Also Jacob uses meta to suspect Della when she is like "I dont know whats going on" so I dont see the problem...
I think there's a difference in thinking out loud meta plays to chat than speaking them to everyone in the meeting and voting off it is all I meant
@@AlpharadI came here to comment that same thing but glad you beat me to it.
@Alpharad yeah I understand that perspective, you don't necessarily need to bring up that info to be voted on. I think what Della did would make more sense if you were reporting someone she didn't kill and they were the impostor. She knew veteran was likely in play because of the impostor being dead and took the shot on you which is why she was sussed, but there wasn't any big reason to guess you in particular, Dash called out the fact that you were guessed off no role revealing info. Not many crew roles besides medic can be guessed so early like that (at least to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) in a long meeting where no role info on you was brought up, he understood Della yolod the double tap on you, and I think what he did is as fair as the guess imo. In a different situation I think if you had slipped a hint at your role during the meeting it would be a completely different story because being guessed for that is a totally fair deduction, it would suck if people voted Della because "she's good at the game" like has happened in the past, but I wouldn't really say that this play was like that.
Sorry for yapping XD
I feel like the entire "meta" conversation just sucks from all angles. I don't think Dash can be blamed for using his sus. That meta knowledge naturally evolves over time and I don't think it is necessarily wrong to use that. Della loses the game because of the meta knowledge, which sucks. Jacob arguably gets metagamed, which no matter if it was or not, only added to the fire. When it is continuously brought up, it just weighs down the mood of everyone involved, which is part of the reason for biweekly Mongy Monday.
For the game to feel good for everyone, the community should probably stop engaging in it so much, and the players probably need to not dwell on it so much. This example is just one of many, and as someone who loves to watch this group, the "drama" never feels good when it is supposed to be a bunch of friends having fun.
I completely agree, also weird going against Dash matagaming when the kill on themselves was a metagame kill that also got confirmed but not called out, even tho dash then explained that his metagame hunch was actually just a way to cover for his investigator role...
Also agree.
While in general i agree one should avoid metagaming too much, and specifically telling others your metagame hunches (because having meta knowledge is natural)...
The kill itself was Della metagaming. Using meta knowledge to solve a meta kill is a little different than using meta knowledge to solve a role-based kill.
Jacob used meta before as well. It’s hypocritical.
@@weeklyhan8506 the investigator was joe not dash. dash was imitator who got jacobs vet (who was nandres) vet which did help build his suspision.
@@fancypants3828 his whole thing with della is a big metagame between both of them. her using double tap to just randonly guess veteran on him just to make sure he is or not, just because she knows he is the smartest one in the group who knows her strats best (aside from dash but dash is a clown most of time except when he just decides he is not) so she put him as a high priority target, that itself is a metagame, and he does the same with her. this is a game about wits and deduction you cant just not metagame when you know the people youre with, theyre not strangers.
On the topic of 'how do we fix the impostor losing streak, would adding back Executioner fix that', I dunno if it's something modders can make happen but I had the thought once that maybe the secret sauce would be making Executioner and Jester a team where the Executioner is trying to help the Jester get voted out. Because nobody feels good being the Executioner target, but Executioner adds a lot of chaos, and meanwhile Jester has a really really hard time winning unless you're Altrive. I think that could at least potentially be really interesting. Really volatile and potentially hard to play against because two people corroborating each other's win con like that could end up being really strong, but I mean if the problem is 'crew has gotten too good', that could be a way to poison the well of information passively at all times.
i would absolutely love to see them try this, it sounds really fun to watch
It’s like the tanner and apprentice in ultimate werewolf. I think it would require new roles though, just so that the other 2 can, more specifically jester, can still be used in the original way
It's a neat idea, but, neutral roles are tricky just because, like, you have to keep the goal in mind. The problem isn't necessarily that crew is winning too much, but more that impostor is losing too much. As crew gets better at being crew, impostors are having to sweat harder and harder for worse results, and that ends up in people not enjoying getting 'stuck with' the evil team. Disinformation is vital for making the evil team's job easier, but, if you do that by buffing neutral roles with alternate win conditions, does that help? Crew might win fewer games, but, if impostors are also winning fewer games, you've failed the one thing you were trying to do.
@@DaBoweh My thought process is this, right: Neutral Killing roles being added is definitely too disruptive to regular gameplay because they might kill the Impostors and run the game in undesirable directions, so that's why that's out. But in making the Neutral roles specifically a team with an alt-wincon, and that wincon being 'lie your ass off and make it believable', you're messing with Crew as much as possible without actually directly damaging the Impostors' plan-- because Crew will be more wary with more people working against them, which means you'll have more meetings that go nowhere, which means Impostors have more time, and all *they* have to do is get 6-8 kills over the course of the game.
Also, doing this by buffing Jester makes a lot of sense to me personally, because Jester is seemingly in a really, really bad spot lately, even worse than Impostor, because nowadays what do you even do, you hope to find a body and stand on it? You're fighting for your life when literally all you can do is have Impostor vision and hop into a vent and make 'mistakes' that nobody in the lobby is doing anymore. And by making Jester stronger, you have actually improved the defense Impostors have against them-- because we're at a point now where if you call Jester *too quickly*, you start sounding like an Impostor trying not to lose. If Jester is a stronger role to be more concerned about, because they have backup, and you have more reason to throw an entire reasonable-sounding story in the garbage because 'what if they're both making things up', not only do you sound less bad, but you have more ammunition to turn people against each other, which potentially keeps their eyes off you.
I dunno if it would absolutely 100% produce the desired result, but what it would do is change how people are playing, and Impostors win more games when people are less sure of what they're doing. Could be a worthwhile experiment, if nothing else, just to keep things fresh.
(Also making Executioner part of a pair in my mind solves the problem of 'Executioner feels bad to play and worse to be on the receiving end of' because you're not trying t fuck over a specific person *out* of their win-con, it becomes a cooperative thing, and I just like that idea personally)
@@C_KiriI was with you but the other guy is right. The problem is Imposter loses too much, not that crew wins too much. Your solution makes crew win less a jester win more. It doesn't solve imposter not winning enough.
Not to be that guy but commenters have a point. You cant do the same thing every time and expect different results. Have a little more respect for Dash.
And before someone makes the ‘parasocial’ comment that’s not what I’m trying to say. If you’re going to stream this to thousands, it’s not good to create situations that will make your viewers uncomfortable to see even if you yourself had different feelings.
I feel like It’s like poker, if you’re playing with your chips every time you bluff people are gonna notice and call you on that shit. Don’t have easy tells like that or you’re gonna get beat. Switch it up if you notice you’re starting to play the same every time. Idk seems kinda logical to me. Doesn’t seem like meta if the person is doing the same thing every time. I feel like saying “oh this must’ve been a good player therefore I think it’s della” is stupid and meta which maybe they thought dash was doing bit it didn’t really seem like he was with full context.
Metagaming seems like a fraught topic; Della impostor (in particular) plays very differently to Della crew so they're more likely to be a victim of it, which of course is no fun. That's one of the big flaws of playing with friends: eventually you learn people's tells and impostors have a massive hill to overcome. Not sure there's a good solution to it, banning all 'vibes' arguments?
Della also should've just waited to test it, she had nothing to go on if she's right but even Jacob instantly knew what she'd tried
Evwn if you try to not meta game, you know that person is impostor and start paying more attention to them and look for flaws in their words
TLDR; Confirmation bias from vibes is an even more ubiquitous metagaming force than directly arguing on vibes alone, & is impossible to regulate. The most successful imposters are less active as crew, so maintaining the most favorable imposter position (keeping your mouth shut & letting crew eat each-other without implicating yourself) isn't suspicious. Vibe flags aren't raised, & they get more buffer before they start taking heat for other imposter-ish behaviors. Sucks but there's not much you can do about it without mind-control.
If you ban vibe arguments they will look for other reasons to accuse that person, but it will still be because of a vibe. It's relying on conscious confirmation bias by gathering evidence to support an existing conclusion for argument's sake, rather than forming a conclusion based on evidence. The argument itself isn't based on vibes, but the investigation & interpretation of evidence is. Mr. Streamer already does this occasionally; because "they're acting different" isn't usually a solid enough argument, he'll collect & eventually pick apart a bunch of suspicious-if-you-squint behaviors from that person to form a case. I don't think it's possible to ban or regulate confirmation bias (that will inevitably come from vibes a lot of the time); & even if you could, it would require such stringent rules that it removes most of the "social" element of the "social deduction" game.
But yeah it probably sucks getting rolled because you're so good & active as crew that your silence/"mistakes" in deduction as imposter stand out in stark contrast. Della eats the worst of it because she's arguably the best crew in mongy monday, & she's otherwise a fantastic imposter, so the best "evidence" against her is often that she just isn't contributing much; & good luck trying to balance that out by making up/jumping on false claims, drawing heat to yourself even if you're *NOT* disproven (which will be fairly often because it's total bullshit). Giwi can get away with staying pretty quiet & not even pretending to do tasks because she does that as crew anyway; Della & Jacob in particular have a steep uphill battle just on the other players' notions of them being really good at crew. The most successful imposters in this group seem to have crew behaviors that happen to lend themselves better to a low-profile game, making them much harder to metagame. Giwi & Fir come to mind; on top of just being very good imposters, they're not the most frequent meeting leaders. Which, compared to Della & Jacob, seems to buy them more time.
Not playing the same as usual is also a skill. If you're playing with your friends and they know your "tells", you have to adjust your habits. But losing due to "vibe" is a whole different sad story
The solution is to take advantage of your tells. There are ways to play sloppy, intentionally, because your form of optimal play is too predictable. The problem is that taking the game to that sort of level is some sweaty tryhard shit that isn't particularly fun for most people, let alone instinctive. There's counterplay from a competitive standpoint but they're playing these games to enjoy themselves, not to take home a title.
Buffing impostors is a fine way to go about things, which is what Alpha and crew have done traditionally. It's not necessarily about mechanical competitive balance and more about making sure that impostors can play the way they want to play and still have fun with it. The more bad information and neutral actors muddying up the works, the more the actual impostors get to sit back and observe other players fighting amongst themselves.
1:04:49
Nothing against her but isn't that more metagaming than Dash going off of his information from imitator.
no hate to no one but as an avid vod watcher calling Dash out for meta gaming is, at best, silly, and at worst, very disingenuine, as everyone here has their tells and gets called out on them, wich is "meta", the only way this would not happen would be if people were new every week, wich also doesn't seem to be fun.
Meta-gaming is unfortunate, but in situations where something really weird just happened, and one of a few explanations is meta-gaming, it's incredibly difficult to look past that, especially in Dash's case where he KNEW Jacob was veteran. At that point, the only option is that Jacob got guessed, and the only one who could've/would've taken that shot is Della. Once you know, even through meta-gaming, that it's Della, it's then super easy to tunnel and collect evidence anyway.
Putting Della and Dash in the thumbnail was appropriate considering that’s what all the discourse in the comment section is about
That Della "got voted from metagame" game I don't know. On one hand its Dash. He's gonna vote Della anyways, but like the guess on Jacob is like a confirmation. Nobody guesses Jacob like her. But also she just was not crew at all that game. That's not reason to vote her, but everyone else is just so much more crew.
I get not metagaming when you like hear something through someone's mic or don't go into Jaiden's room to see if she's impostor (not that anyone would do that), but idk like thinking that it might be Della if Jacob gets guessed or it might be GIWI if the imposter is playing well? Knowing an imposter is Altrive if kills are slow because he's too wholesome? I understand it's not information you got strictly from that game but surely isn't adapting to the play of your group part of the fun?
@@ConnorGrummer Can be, but certainly not for everyone. Especially the case of "Impostors are good". This is not just a group of friends hanging out and having fun, they're trying to have entertaining streams and videos as well.
Voting on "impostor is good" just feels really shitty, if it's the only thing. The alternative is playing bad and getting caught, so it's a lose-lose situation for della, giwi, etc.
Use meta gaming to guide your game plan, don't use it to accuse others. As Jacob said before, it's usually pretty easy to dig up some dirt on someone when you already have suspicions. Then accuse them based on that instead.
@@DaTimmeh But it wasn't just "impostor is good", it was "Jacob exploded for no reason in discussion early in the game on top of other evidence I found." There's very few people who'd make a call like that with little-no info (Della being one of them), and if an impostor did somehow find Jacob's role it'd again have to be somebody extremely good at deducting and willing to make a bold play (again, Della is one of few who fits this mold). Plus Della and Jacob historically have beef: based on experience, subconsciously or not, she is going to be who players find suspicious as a result. Better to voice it out then to not say anything about it at all.
Also everyone got hypnotized, that makes new in game information incredibly hard to get and so you need to go off of what you can
Not having giwi really makes a difference in crew victories
57:40 Meta gaming DOES suck, but that kind of kill also sucks.. And, unfortunately, you can't just NOT know who does it after a certain amount of games. Even Alpha knew the thought process right as it happened.
Yeah it's pretty unavoidable, but not telling your metagame hunches to others helps.
To be honest, I think metagaming is completely fair. People are always guessing your role because they know the way you play? Then just play differently. Adapt, that's how the game works. That's like complaining that people tell you're lying when they discover you're lying, don't complain, improve at lying. It's a SOCIAL deduction game and the fact you're playing with friends makes "metagaming" part of it. If you don't want metagaming, why not play with randoms or bots or something like that? You can go out of your way to change your strategy, or even try to copy someone else's to accuse them. EVERYONE is ALWAYS metagaming, even if it's not noticable, that's just how our brains work. Complaining when someone metagames in a more obvious sense doesn't solve anything, you're just getting annoyed at someone that does the same thing everyone does, but admits it consciously and vocally.
"Hating meta calls" is just hating the more obvious metagaming, not metagaming itself. "Hating meta calls" is hating being punished for always using the same strategy. People are eventually going to caught up to you. If you want to play mind games read other people in this game you need to accept that YOU are going to be read too unless you change your game plan.
using role knowledge isn't really meta gaming in social deduction games, it's not even close to as bad as saying something like "it has to be x person because only they're good enough to play like this", or "killer is x, because they're new and only new people would do x". using role knowledge is in the same tier as using task knowledge or any other actual in game knowledge.
50 people mongus?
That would be wild one time thing. Imagine dying first
Della would still figure out when it’s Jacob round 2
1:19:05 'I need to memorize this map' on my Bingo card. Never fails. Once a week at least.
57:24 BRO WTF WHY DASH OUT OF EVERYONE IS THE ONLY OTHER WHO CAN READ DELLAS BS?
Della guessing Jacob was veteran based on "That's how a veteran player plays" is by definition meta-gaming. You use the context clues of how that role is played to deduce if a player is playing that role. It's less annoying because it's not based on "That's how Jacob plays Veteran", whereas Pikmin 5's guess was based on how Della plays against Jacob. So yes it's meta-gaming, but it's less egregious.
Pikman 5 locking in to take Della down was so satisfying.
One thing smart about Mari is that she plays the game very consistently. I feel like she's kinda immune to metagaming because of it.
i think meta gaming is a key part of mafia like games
if you play with a group of people that you know you cannot just ignore clear signs of suspicion and they should be trying their best to hide those suspicious traits
it removes alot of skill and interest from a game about social engineering if you cant use social cues, thats the whole fun of playing with the same group of people rather then a different group everytime.
also everyone including alpha does it, like if alpha says "it cant be [person] because the kills are too fast" thats text book meta gaming
it can suck if you waited to be imposter and you died because of something not directly related to the game, but unless it was literally just someone being random then that is unfortunately a skill issue
very much so feels like meta gaming is okay if its you or one of your closer friends doing it, but if it happens to you or to them then its lame
also none of that really matters that much, but everyone jumping on altrive for "meta gaming" or any unserious allegation just feels abit shitty when its just meant to be a game to have fun with friends in. if you notice someone getting ganged up on for something like that you should just move on and forget it. even if altrive didnt care, thats a very likely way to make someone feel alienated and i dont think you should treat friends like that
Jacob complaining about the lobby metagaming against Della, but Della's guess on you as vet is metagame logic. She didn't guess vet because she saw any in-game evidence, and you didn't say anything to rouse suspicion, and it wasn't a raw random guess. It was her metagaming the roles and double-shot. I don't get why you'd be upset at Dash for calling that out?
Regardless, I'd just choose to call it unfortunate and just move on.
Fun fact: The only people that cry about metagaming are the people that are best at the game, because without "metagaming" they are unstopabble.
You wouldn't even be mad if Dash just said "I have a hunch it's Della" without explaining why. You see that your anger is flawed when it is only justified if he admitted it was because of "metagaming". Don't like being metagamed? Change your playstyle once in a while or play off other people's expectation's, like Altrive does.
Della when she does something no one else does and gets called out for it: 😡
It is a twist of fate that now I, a humble US citizen, am now a vod watcher.
at least you usually can watch on time. my time zone made that I couldn't watch the european live when I also can't usually watch the pst time live
Hella nah why is Alpha defending della there lmao. Della was the one that metagamed in that game first, and Dash did after that it was a fair game if you're gonna metagame kill someone. There's no excuse there too since atleast dash had a reason to doubt della while della was just out to fcking kill Alpha. IDK man if i see unreasonable glazing just gonna switch to Dash pov
Yeah, I love watching the group play, and Alpha is the only person here I'm subbed to since I've been watching him since Smash 4, but I'm real close to switching PoVs at this point. Really tired of all the favoritism he shows at others expense as well as general hypocrisy on this stuff. Switching to another PoV will at least mitigate some of it for all the times he mutes to get overly defensive.
I wouldn't mind seeing Executioner return with the setting that doesn't end the game. Makes sussing more sus, but it's also not countered as hard since it's not game loss for everyone else
I also want to see that, the problem they were having with executioner is that no one liked being forced to lie and make up facts to accuse their friends. This is a group of friends at the end of the day, and while Jacob obviously wants to put on a fun game, no one liked being the role. Maybe it gets better because the game doesn't end immediately, so there is less pressure to try to force your lies into the conversation.
@@floataway3my only doubt is.. if it doesn't win the game why would I try to do my role? What am I gaining?
@@andreabustos3208 Well, they did it in the newest VOD. You still win the game, it's just that the others can play the game even after you finish what you were set out to do. It's not being instantly punished for voting one random person out, but they also reach their wincon and win with the others that won, whether that be crew or impostors.
I do hate how much the pets ruin Janitor, seems it comes up every time there is one
I feel the same, honestly maybe remove pets or janitors? Cause if u can see the body was removed it's basically useless
I think there should be like a toggle on the Janitor role to have pets be or not be there when you kill someone
Vitals already provides counterplay to janitor, pets being there is an unnecessary addition.
i'm not from the eu but i end up being a vodwatcher because of attention span issues, it's really nice to be able to pause this and do some other stuff then come back when i'm waiting to play a set or whatnot.
you are so real for this !!!! my adhd really kicks my butt when it comes to long streams :,)
Going to be honest. Meta gaming is simply natural when playing a game like this. Its inevitable. If being meta is a problem then you are suppose to switch up the way you play and even if someone susses someone off nothing thats also part of the game. I know this because it happens all the time even in some of the mongy vods where one person kills and somehow the other imposter gets all the sus either due to movement or general cues in someone's behavior. People tend to catch on to those when you play with the same people for a long time. I feel like the whole meta gaming rule is just in place to avoid the harsher reality of a social engineering game which is fair, but its reasonable to expect people to find a lidl less enjoyment out of not letting it be a thing because in all fairness I believe altrive's sus was genuine and I wouldn't be shocked to anyone that would think the same if put in a similar situation.
With all that said I feel that metagaming should be allowed as metagaming itself isn't a surefire way and the person could still not be what they are accused of being based on external cues. The rule is basically just there to avoid "drama" which if you are playing games like this to the fullest extent possible you will inevitably have arguments. I play the new death note game with some friends as well on discord and while we get in a few arguments and say stuff like "well you guys are going to lose if you vote me" or "How the fuck am I getting suspected" etc, we all know its all fun and games, have tons of fun, and get along right after while talking about le epic rounds because if people are good friends and respect each other, then a game like this shouldn't hurt too bad.
I don't understand the meta game thing. So analyzing player behavior on some people, but not on others?
Dash cannot analyze Della being big brained because it's metagame.
But people can analyze when Dash is being a third imposter?
Just seems like a double standard to me. Plus, it's an investigation type game, you kinda have to "meta game" all the time.
I just don't get it
I want a mod where if the Guardian angel loses their protectee to a kill they become an Avenging angel where they must kill the protectee's killer to win.
I think goose goose duck has something like that
To add to that, maybe the GA sees everyone as gray except for their protectee. So it's even if they see someone kill their protectee they have to guess.
That's an interesting idea. I think I like it without more cause it gives a reason for imposters to fear someone getting GA role and avoiding crew pairs more.
57:56 while I agree metaing like that isn't fun, but didn't she do the same kind of meta to kill you?
The meta gaming tangent is kinda frustrating because i think theres a certain level of meta to any multiplayer game, especially among us. I think logic was used and i think thats fairplay, if you know people well enough you know how they think. Punishing or arguing against that doesnt feel fair to me. Though i get the frustration to some degree.
90% of chats you reply to are negative and thats gotta be so bad for you, you gotta address things sure but i do think it takes its toll.
I know the comments here is full of it. So i feel bad contributing.
i was halfway through the previous weeks vod when jacob randomly dropped the fact he was doing an eu friendly stream and i literally joined halfway through but had a butt ton of stuff to do and rejoined during the very last game
I think you should experiment with more neutral roles, to make it more difficult for the crewmates to discover who the impostor is
"Some people are so online they have the American sleep schedule" I have the opposite problem, half my online friends are EU/AUS/Asia time zones and every day I have off I am halfway across the clock about it.
i dropped my phone in the (full of water) sink while watching this, great video vod
Mari deserved that jester win cuz she was RIGHT
imo, adapt. Meta Gaming is hype. Switch up your play style. Be like Pikmin 5.
Me mourning missing morning mongey monday
Using double shot to veteran check is so much more lame to me than the meta gaming like that invalidates veteran so much
I actully think it’s really smart- plus that wasn’t even her reasoning, and even if it was, alpha was clearly fine with it
@@Red_Phobic2I agree with you on that, but on that note I also believe that the “metagaming” wasn’t a lame play either. Della always hard targets Jacob whether as imposter or crew so it was pretty obvious that she was the imposter in that scenario
@@EpicestGamer2It's their mutual agreement that they target each other when one is evil.
And the veteran guess strat is pretty fair, cuz it utilises the tools the imp has to kill someone safely.
And as jacob said, imps are having a hard time winning right now, so a strat benefit the imp is a net positive for balance
2:19:46 is my place so I don’t lose my place. Thanks, and also metagaming is awesome
naw cause if you make meta play you cant get upset when someone else makes a meta play
Meta-gaming is gonna happen, especially as much time as you guys spend together, you can't take that out of who you are and what you know, and taking it to butthurt town is childish at best.
49:28 I don't agree with the neutral killer reasoning, just because there are other roles that can do the same, if someone got imposter and they get sheriff shot in dropship, they won't feel any better than a glitch doing it, I thought it was because newer players and even the old ones would have to readjust and consider them more, though I'm pretty sure they would only bring back glitch if anything
Also after October ended and freaky jailor came to an end, jailors have become scared, they have a role that can kill the moment a meeting starts, and they never kill anyone.
The jailor is crew, they should be scared. If they are wrong all they have done is helped the imposter out. Sure, the round where Nancy had them both jailed and didn't take the shot looked like she was a bad jailor, but if you don't have proper info, you shouldn't take the shot in the first place. If she wasn't locked in and knew that she had it right, she wasn't going to do the imposter job for them.
Doesn't matter if you never kill anyone, maybe Im too pikmin5 brained@@floataway3
Timestamps:
Video starts: 0:00
Video ends 4:04:24
You're welcome.
Our savior
This was very helpful thank you I was trying to find the beginning and end for a while
ty
i love vod tuesday
yay, fyrus, it's been forever since he was in mongey monday
EU times
@@Red_Phobic2 doesn't stop him from being on wildcard
i love the twitch that always says hello to us vod watchers, makes me smile!
Helo twitch!
Thanks for the eu friendly stream. Really made my day and found some fellow finnish fans.
2:07:45 personally, I will always have a soft spot for Little Caesars, it’s my comfort pizza that I’ll even eat cold sometimes. That sounds gross to some people but that’s how I much I like their pizza
I love Little Caesars and people are so judgemental about it. It's a hell of a deal! And crazy bread is awesome!
I love cold pizza in general. Leftover cold pizza is like my favorite thing to get up and eat for breakfast after a pizza party the night before
As a European VOD watcher, this was in fact my first live mongy monday and it was very fun to watch live :D
1:48:00 true! That is so hypocritical.
Yeah, he really does play favorites in the group and Della is at the top of that list lol
50 player among us would finally make airship a viable map
I mean if i run the same strats on every time as imposter maybe i should mix up my strategy instead of doing the same thing every time. That feels like basic strats, not "unfair metagame"
pikmin 5 in wheelchair
i am a day sleeper (american) and i fell asleep watching della's stream of this, and then had mongy monday stress dreams lmao
1:11:23
I just had an epiphany in real time as you were walking back to admin
Nandre Sheriffed Pikmin 5
Smith was Amnesiac, was in the room, grabbed Sherriff, and ran
Here's to hoping chat brings it up or you have the realization before you find Pikmin 5 because that is going to be *tragic*
1:11:45
Ooh. That is also tragic
I quite enjoyed seeing people lock in way more this time because people are less tired and done with the day
Alpha was locked tf in for those crew games 😂
We had Jessie and Meowth, just needed James
I liked how Tommie was like a combination of Jessie and TMNT Donatello
57:22 the fact that if he picked up swooper AND already got hard cleared this game would make amnesiac being able to do tasks soooo broken
For the OP roles day, should have imitator be able to take every ability from all the dead crewmates. Stack the OP skills lol
0:39 it was not, in fact, rerun
IT'S THAT TIME OF THE WEEK AGAIN ‼️‼️‼️ VIVA EL MONGY MONDAY ❤❤❤
It would be interesting to add a glitch or juggernaut, to add a third party killer and give the crew more trouble
"oh wait no i forgot its embarassing and my favorite is ankha actually"
That was a funny short
3:25:30 You can hear Della checking on a tamagotchi connection, this makes you the goat Della! 💜💖
A note about executioner. By identifying an executioner you identify two safe people, which narrows down who imposter is. That might be why imposters are winning more
Okay corrects I forgot last week had no imposter wins but I think it stands
I agree, except crew never knows if it's actually executioner and it muddies the water
1:15:09 I thought this was a clip from Smith at first for some reason, and I was like “wow, Smith changed their avatar to that?”
i caught around the last hour of this due to classes, i didnt remember quite how long i watched and then all of a sudden the meeting with "is sam hypnotist hmmm" and then nancy hopping in a vent gave me such intense deja vu i went ah ik where i am (and then watched the chat for past me asking about mongy multiplier)
Yo! A hat in time conductor in the thumbnail! Nice. Obviously, I'm happy he's playing conductor in general, but the confidence to put it in the thumbnail is great.
I think it’d be funny to buff imposter by giving them a text/VC chat.
4:54 It's chewsday, innit?
Timestamps:
9:02 Crewmate (Mystic)
22:30 Crewmate (Vigilante)
32:27 Impostor (Swooper)
48:07 Neutral (Amnesiac)
1:02:07 Crewmate (Imitator)
1:15:56 Crewmate (Veteran)
1:37:44 Crewmate (Engineer)
1:49:59 Crewmate (Detective)
2:04:32 Crewmate (Detective)
2:19:39 Crewmate (Tracker)
2:38:27 Crewmate (Detective)
2:56:03 Crewmate (Mystic)
3:22:30 Crewmate (Transporter)
3:38:50 Crewmate (Imitator)
3:55:22 Impostor (Grenadier)
Siento que lo del meta-gaming fue culpa de Della al principio. Ella la cagó al matar a Jacob sin justificación alguna en junta, digo una cosa son sus acuerdos mutuos y otra cosa es que los demás sepan, actuen acorde y que no se les haga de "???". El adivinar su rol como veterano fue de la nada, por eso hizo pensar a Altrive de que era algo de entre ellos dos, y como Jacob y Della tienen esos acuerdos de matarse apenas uno u otro es impostor, pues por eso.
En mi opinión que nadie pidió, y de metiche, de un evento que ya pasó: Della debió esperarse para encontrar una oportunidad de acusar a Jacob de "veterano" o que el tema salga a la luz, que sí se da y es bastante común que se de el debate de si fue veterano, sheriff o impostor. Aunque, sí, también Altrive al traer eso a la mesa pues no estuvo bien, debió dejárselo más para sí mismo y buscar una manera de inculparla.
Of course the one mongy in my timezone is the one I missed
*laughs in vod watcher*
EYYYY i missed fyrus on these
That was such a cool stream. :3 I‘m happy that I could watch it live for the first time.
And I saw a lot of fellow German comments, that was fun. ^~^
I just thought of an insane bomber strat when people are walking behind you but can't see you, you put a bomb in front of a door and close it after you went through
2:48:06 someone said "blood for the blood gods" and i immediately thought technoblade ref omg
I love when alpha mogs all over my mondays
Nothing like watching Mongy Monday VODs while playing pokemon unite