I really like the Kiwami4 WBX, its spraying long I thin pattern is just wonderful and the atomization is great, but seems like the WBX is quite well known
Hi Benjamin, Yes, the WBX is a very good gun , I will have to do a WBX v WB video one day as the two are slightly different, it would be interesting to see how the pattern differs if at all as they are completely the same apart from the cap, cheers mate 👍
Hey, Pete! Was wondering when you were going to get back to the Dram. There's no doubt the WBX is a better gun, but as you noted it should be for the difference in price. However, I've had good experience with the Dram, but I use a medium solid clear. It's easy to push the fluid out with fluid and fan wide open and lays thinner clears down flat. This would probably be more aligned with budget DIY painters that find HS clears harder to spray and stick to MS clears thats more popular in the US, although a good flowing HS clear would be of some advantage as well. The fan is small, but nothing terrible. It wets out pretty good. Thanks for the great video!
Hi Boss, Both these are very good guns, certainly using them on there own you wouldn't think either fan was small, it only becomes obvious that the Dram is smaller but not necessarily small, when these are side by side, which is the reason for the videos really. What you say makes perfect sense. The split tip guns do lay finer particles of material down, so thinner would give better results. Also, the lower air consumption would help the DIY guys and girls. I didn't realise that MS clears were more popular in the US, I will get some at some stage, will do me good to try some, only one I have experience of is the Upol 1k which is rather thin. Cheers, mate. Thank you 👍
@@peteshobbies5383hi Pete. Try some MS you will like it. As for cost ratio , I never really thought that HS or UHS is beneficial. I even know painters thinning their UHS clears with 15-20 percent thinners to get the MS experience.
@lutra7670 Hi Buddy, You are the second person to say that, as you say, it would be beneficial for the lower output guns as it flows better. I will get some as it would be interesting to compare, cheers mate 👍
@lutra7670 yes, there's been a trend towards HS clears in the US to avoid dieback, shrinkage, and get a quicker build, but the truth is some MS clears remain popular behind closed doors. The particular one I use is relabled Nason 498-00. It's easy to smash on with lesser guns, and a splash of retarder during extreme heat keeps it performing well. The gloss is great for an inexpensive clear, better than Upol 2802.
Hi Mate, Yes, exactly, I will get round to a WB v WBX, as it is purely the cap that's different. Everything else is fully interchangeable, so it may be interesting to see what the patterns are like. Cheers, mate, thank you 👍
Hi mate, yeah, that's exactly what I did after the video as I leave that in there. Another way is a o'ring on the base of the adapter at the top of the threads, that's a good idea if you wish to remove it each time as the o'ring just stays on the adapter and does it thing, cheers mate, I appreciate it 👍
Hi Dean, The Iwata is definitely better for sure, but then it should be, I guess. Considering the price you can get the Iwata for, it does make you wonder if you really need a WS400 at twice the price 🤔, cheers mate, and hope the wife is recovering well 👍
Hi Andrew, Yes, It's the WBX, which is the gold cap. Both of these are 1.3, although I do have the 1.4 setup as well for the WBX, which just makes it a bit faster , cheers mate 👍
Hi Pete, still enjoying you videos, very informative - thanks :) Wich gun do you think offers the best value for money for a DIY guy, with the Ntools 4000b, dram or Porhis 717, with the cost of the gun taken in to consideration? is the Dram that much better than 4000b and is the porphis that much better than the dram? or what is your judgement between these guns? :) Thanks Christian, Denmark
Hi Christian, that's quite a wide price range you are looking at there! The Porphis is on a completely different level in terms of build and performance, it can run at higher pressures if needed but is excellent at low pressures, so is much more universal than the Dram or 4000B. The Dram is quite different to the Ntools in that it's more refined, slower, and uses less air. Certainly, if you can afford it, go for the Porphis, it really is very good and an absolute bargain 👍
Hi mate, they are very different. The Porphis is a far better gun on every level. it's also nearly 3 times the price, so it's probably unfair to compare
Off Topic Question: I have heard some say the Wider4L does not spray as well ( regarding atomization ) - as the LPH400. Have you found any difference in quality between these two guns?
There are 3 caps available for the LPH400, only one for the Wider4L, the one the Wider4L comes with is the same as the LPH400 4LV cap, it's the best clear coat cap. The Wider4L sprays the same as the LPH400 4LV. it's a direct replacement. Certainly, the Wider4L I have is better for clearcoat than the LPH400 LVX I have, but there's little in it 👍
I've read those same sentiments as well as comparisons between tbe Kiwami4 and original Bellaria. However, I've yet to see comparative sprayouts except for on this channel, which leads me to believe many are going by memory. That's all well and good, but oftentimes, memories can be inaccurate. Not to mention, are people even spraying the same products from over 10-15 years ago?
@bosshawg7427 That's one of the things I find enjoyable about doing these side by side reviews, your memory sometimes flatters a gun or product, it's just not as good, or it may be better than you remember. Doing reviews with everything the same day, temperature, materials, humidity, painters frame of mind, and the same regulator is the best way, imo to compare these things. Cheers Boss 👍
Yes, I have seen it, I will try and get one as I'm not sure if it is like the Wider4 or the Kiwami4 BA4J, as you probably know, the Kiwami4 BA4J has a much bigger pattern than the Wider4, it would be interesting to see what one it copy's 😀
@jesuszaragoza2473 I assume you're talking about the new "Berosslin" gun by Quality Ecpert (lol, that name can't be right). I've been checking it out as well, and from the Dram's specs being not too far off, I would suspect the new gun may be somewhat accurate as well. It is intriguing, but it's suggested PSI is around 21-22/1.5 bar. CFM is supposedly a mere 7.7, or let's just say 8. However, the fluid output is surprisingly low at 125 ml/m. Fan width is estimated to be about 9.8 inches/ 250 mm. In my head, I'm trying to capture what such a gun would be good for with low fluid output and low CFM and how the atomization would be. It almost appears to be a LVLP, but a slow one at that. However, the specs aren't that far off from a W400 1.3. I'm tempted to buy one as it's coming up on sale soon for about $55 with free shipping.. taxes to add, perhaps.
@@bosshawg7427 si amigo de esa misma hablo por qué pienso que es una copia de la Iwata 400 o wider 4 o bien podría ser una copia de la bellaria aún no se, las especificaciones que dan a veces no son reales lo e visto aquí en los vídeos de el amigo Petes, yo también estoy tentado a comprarla aunque ya tengo algunas de otras me intriga que puedan ser tan buenas como la copia draw que va casi casi alcanzando a la Iwata, aún no me decido a darle el clic a la compra pero estoy muy inclinado a pedirla
@@jesuszaragoza2473Keep in mind that the Dram's suggested PSI is 2.5 bar/36psi, which would change certain specs if ran lower like fluid output, air consumption, and fan size. Also, the fluid viscosity used in the company's testing isn't known, so the end user is left guestimating with their own experience. I briefly ran it at 32-35 psi to see the results, and it still sprayed nicely without fan breakup, but I do recall overspray increasing quite a bit as I use MS clears which really don't need gobs of pressure. With that, it's hard to say what level of overspray is considered "acceptable" during manufacturer testing. As far as the Berosslin, its more aligned with the W400 LV2 air cap/Wider4. The Kiwami4's 220ml/m fluid output is far above both Wider4 and Berosslin. The Berosslin spec's aren't exactly the same as the Wider4 either, but it isn't rated the same with regards to inlet pressure. As I've mentioned before, the Iwata is rated at 2 bar, and the Berosslin is rated at 1.5 bar. Half a bar is enough to offset some of those stats. However, being an exact copy, I don't expect. Being a very good value for money, I think is more realistic. I could use another sealer gun as my original Astro Evo4014 has developed wear on the fan valve to where it leaks. The good thing about that is it uses the same Iwata W400/Kiwami4 type fluid nozzles, so that would give me a 1.4 option for the Berosslin. I am going to pull the trigger while it's on sale.. No pun intended 😅
@jesuszaragoza2473 the Berosslin is more akin to the Wider4/W400 LV2 setup as far as specifications are concerned. However, we can't say how close until one is compared in hand to the LV2/J2 air cap. I just ordered one a few minutes ago with the sale and added coin discount, bringing the total price to $56 shipped to the US. It will be replacing an older wearing Astro Evo4014, which is another W400 copy. As far as the specs, we have to keep in mind that comparisons made on paper differ by the suggested inlet pressure. The Berosslin is suggested at .5 bar lower than the Iwata, just like the Dram's inlet pressure is rated differently than the compared Iwata model. That's enough to make some of those claimed differences in other aspects like fluid output, fan width, and air consumption. I highly doubt it would be an exact copy, but it still can be a high value. The good thing is that with the common design of the Berosslin fluid tip, from the Astro I'll have a 1.4 tip to go along with it if need be as I used the Astro for sealer, thus what the Berosslin will be used for.
Hi Pete hope you are keeping ok mate, very nice comparison between these two guns and considering the price difference they both give similar results as it was difficult to tell which was better from the video but I would expect a better finish from the WBX🤔the Dram does look like it's worth getting as for the price it looks like a well made gun it just depends on how reliable it will be👍 Do you think there is a big advantage of the 4 split tip over the 3 split tip setup, would the WS400 lay the clear better than the WBX🤔I was just wondering if the loss of speed from a 4 split tip is worth it for the better finish🧐🤷♂cheers Pete👍 Oh someone was asking me if it's possible to get a clear aircap for the Finer Core 1.3 HVLP or has he got to buy the complete gun🤔🤔👍
Hi John, Yes, I was comparing these two because one is a copy of the other, price will obviously be a consideration for most people, the Dram is certainly good for the money. I think the WBX lays the clear as well as the WS400, I know many in the US fit a 3 split tip to their LPH400s as it speeds them up but keeps the quality, it not a huge speed increase though as you would expect I guess. From memory, when I looked at this, on the Finer Core, to convert to HVLP from standard, you need the HVLP cap and plastic baffle. That's it, There is a difference on the pitch of the threads for fluid adjustment, the HVLP being finer, but that obviously doesn't matter that much, cheers mate 👍
I've seen the Dram for sale and it looks a good gun plus others on here also seem to like it. I am interested in converting my W400 to a split tip and have mentioned it to you before but I think you said it's not worth it so I haven't done anything else about it but I hoped it would make it better and spray like the WBX, I don't know what I need to change it, probably the tip, needle and cap🤔 Thanks for the advice on the Finer Core mate, he has got the HVLP version which he was given to review but he want's to change it to the clear version but was told the parts are not available, I haven't seen ant tip sets for this gun🤷♂ Cheers mate👍
@JohnWD40TC02 Hi John, The needle is the same in all the W400, LPH400, and series 1 WS400 and LS400 for any size between and including 1.3 to 1.6, so for your Bellaria you would need a tip and cap, tips, normally sold in sets are the same for the WB and WBX, it's only the cap that's different. Paintingtool_jp can get whatever parts are required for the Meiji Finer Core, if the person is in the UK then Meiji.co.uk keep the parts, they are part of BSS beyondsurfacesolutions.co.uk/
Ok mate thanks for the info, I'll keep my eye out to see if I can pick up a second hand setup for my Bellaria 👍 He's in the USA but has since told me he found the aircap and plastic baffle for the gun so I think he's going to get one, cheers mate👍
great video pete 👍👍👍
Thanks, Grant, much appreciated 👍
Aún sin empezar a ver el video estoy por seguro que será una buena batalla, toma todos mis likes amigo Petes te deseo una buena salud
Thank you, buddy. I appreciate it 🙏
Thanks for another one Pete!
Thanks for watching, buddy. It's much appreciated 😊
Once again, very informative video. Thanks for doing them
Cheers, buddy. Thanks for watching 👍
I really like the Kiwami4 WBX, its spraying long I thin pattern is just wonderful and the atomization is great, but seems like the WBX is quite well known
Hi Benjamin, Yes, the WBX is a very good gun , I will have to do a WBX v WB video one day as the two are slightly different, it would be interesting to see how the pattern differs if at all as they are completely the same apart from the cap, cheers mate 👍
Hey, Pete! Was wondering when you were going to get back to the Dram. There's no doubt the WBX is a better gun, but as you noted it should be for the difference in price. However, I've had good experience with the Dram, but I use a medium solid clear. It's easy to push the fluid out with fluid and fan wide open and lays thinner clears down flat. This would probably be more aligned with budget DIY painters that find HS clears harder to spray and stick to MS clears thats more popular in the US, although a good flowing HS clear would be of some advantage as well. The fan is small, but nothing terrible. It wets out pretty good.
Thanks for the great video!
Hi Boss, Both these are very good guns, certainly using them on there own you wouldn't think either fan was small, it only becomes obvious that the Dram is smaller but not necessarily small, when these are side by side, which is the reason for the videos really.
What you say makes perfect sense. The split tip guns do lay finer particles of material down, so thinner would give better results. Also, the lower air consumption would help the DIY guys and girls.
I didn't realise that MS clears were more popular in the US, I will get some at some stage, will do me good to try some, only one I have experience of is the Upol 1k which is rather thin.
Cheers, mate. Thank you 👍
@@peteshobbies5383hi Pete. Try some MS you will like it. As for cost ratio , I never really thought that HS or UHS is beneficial. I even know painters thinning their UHS clears with 15-20 percent thinners to get the MS experience.
@lutra7670 Hi Buddy, You are the second person to say that, as you say, it would be beneficial for the lower output guns as it flows better.
I will get some as it would be interesting to compare, cheers mate 👍
@lutra7670 yes, there's been a trend towards HS clears in the US to avoid dieback, shrinkage, and get a quicker build, but the truth is some MS clears remain popular behind closed doors. The particular one I use is relabled Nason 498-00. It's easy to smash on with lesser guns, and a splash of retarder during extreme heat keeps it performing well. The gloss is great for an inexpensive clear, better than Upol 2802.
Hi Pete. The WBX looks like it would be really good for metallics with that wide pattern👍
Hi Mate, Yes, exactly, I will get round to a WB v WBX, as it is purely the cap that's different. Everything else is fully interchangeable, so it may be interesting to see what the patterns are like. Cheers, mate, thank you 👍
Use some Teflon tape for your adapter. I use this since years , replacing it every now and then with no leakage.
Hi mate, yeah, that's exactly what I did after the video as I leave that in there.
Another way is a o'ring on the base of the adapter at the top of the threads, that's a good idea if you wish to remove it each time as the o'ring just stays on the adapter and does it thing, cheers mate, I appreciate it 👍
Може и водопроводни калчища от коноп😂
Hi Pete the iwata runs rings around the dram imo
Hi Dean, The Iwata is definitely better for sure, but then it should be, I guess.
Considering the price you can get the Iwata for, it does make you wonder if you really need a WS400 at twice the price 🤔, cheers mate, and hope the wife is recovering well 👍
@@peteshobbies5383 😉😉😉😉😉😉
HI PETE, IS,THAT THE WBX 1.4 GOLD CAP 😊 GOOD FINSH PETE I LIKE THE WBX 1.4 😊😅
Hi Andrew, Yes, It's the WBX, which is the gold cap. Both of these are 1.3, although I do have the 1.4 setup as well for the WBX, which just makes it a bit faster , cheers mate 👍
Hi Pete, still enjoying you videos, very informative - thanks :)
Wich gun do you think offers the best value for money for a DIY guy, with the Ntools 4000b, dram or Porhis 717, with the cost of the gun taken in to consideration? is the Dram that much better than 4000b and is the porphis that much better than the dram? or what is your judgement between these guns? :) Thanks Christian, Denmark
Hi Christian, that's quite a wide price range you are looking at there!
The Porphis is on a completely different level in terms of build and performance, it can run at higher pressures if needed but is excellent at low pressures, so is much more universal than the Dram or 4000B.
The Dram is quite different to the Ntools in that it's more refined, slower, and uses less air.
Certainly, if you can afford it, go for the Porphis, it really is very good and an absolute bargain 👍
Have you a link for buying that Chinese gun?
Hi buddy, try this one,
a.aliexpress.com/_EIbeM0d
Hi Pete how does the dram stack up against the Split tip on the Porphis PRD717 ? Is there much difference would you say ?
Hi mate, they are very different. The Porphis is a far better gun on every level. it's also nearly 3 times the price, so it's probably unfair to compare
Off Topic Question: I have heard some say the Wider4L does not spray as well ( regarding atomization ) - as the LPH400. Have you found any difference in quality between these two guns?
There are 3 caps available for the LPH400, only one for the Wider4L, the one the Wider4L comes with is the same as the LPH400 4LV cap, it's the best clear coat cap.
The Wider4L sprays the same as the LPH400 4LV. it's a direct replacement. Certainly, the Wider4L I have is better for clearcoat than the LPH400 LVX I have, but there's little in it 👍
I've read those same sentiments as well as comparisons between tbe Kiwami4 and original Bellaria. However, I've yet to see comparative sprayouts except for on this channel, which leads me to believe many are going by memory. That's all well and good, but oftentimes, memories can be inaccurate. Not to mention, are people even spraying the same products from over 10-15 years ago?
@bosshawg7427 That's one of the things I find enjoyable about doing these side by side reviews, your memory sometimes flatters a gun or product, it's just not as good, or it may be better than you remember.
Doing reviews with everything the same day, temperature, materials, humidity, painters frame of mind, and the same regulator is the best way, imo to compare these things. Cheers Boss 👍
Otra cosa amigo Petes ya sacaron una pistola igual a la dram pero sin la boquilla dividida pienso que vendría siendo la copia de la wider 4
Yes, I have seen it, I will try and get one as I'm not sure if it is like the Wider4 or the Kiwami4 BA4J, as you probably know, the Kiwami4 BA4J has a much bigger pattern than the Wider4, it would be interesting to see what one it copy's 😀
@jesuszaragoza2473 I assume you're talking about the new "Berosslin" gun by Quality Ecpert (lol, that name can't be right). I've been checking it out as well, and from the Dram's specs being not too far off, I would suspect the new gun may be somewhat accurate as well. It is intriguing, but it's suggested PSI is around 21-22/1.5 bar. CFM is supposedly a mere 7.7, or let's just say 8. However, the fluid output is surprisingly low at 125 ml/m. Fan width is estimated to be about 9.8 inches/ 250 mm.
In my head, I'm trying to capture what such a gun would be good for with low fluid output and low CFM and how the atomization would be. It almost appears to be a LVLP, but a slow one at that. However, the specs aren't that far off from a W400 1.3. I'm tempted to buy one as it's coming up on sale soon for about $55 with free shipping.. taxes to add, perhaps.
@@bosshawg7427 si amigo de esa misma hablo por qué pienso que es una copia de la Iwata 400 o wider 4 o bien podría ser una copia de la bellaria aún no se, las especificaciones que dan a veces no son reales lo e visto aquí en los vídeos de el amigo Petes, yo también estoy tentado a comprarla aunque ya tengo algunas de otras me intriga que puedan ser tan buenas como la copia draw que va casi casi alcanzando a la Iwata, aún no me decido a darle el clic a la compra pero estoy muy inclinado a pedirla
@@jesuszaragoza2473Keep in mind that the Dram's suggested PSI is 2.5 bar/36psi, which would change certain specs if ran lower like fluid output, air consumption, and fan size. Also, the fluid viscosity used in the company's testing isn't known, so the end user is left guestimating with their own experience. I briefly ran it at 32-35 psi to see the results, and it still sprayed nicely without fan breakup, but I do recall overspray increasing quite a bit as I use MS clears which really don't need gobs of pressure. With that, it's hard to say what level of overspray is considered "acceptable" during manufacturer testing.
As far as the Berosslin, its more aligned with the W400 LV2 air cap/Wider4. The Kiwami4's 220ml/m fluid output is far above both Wider4 and Berosslin. The Berosslin spec's aren't exactly the same as the Wider4 either, but it isn't rated the same with regards to inlet pressure. As I've mentioned before, the Iwata is rated at 2 bar, and the Berosslin is rated at 1.5 bar. Half a bar is enough to offset some of those stats. However, being an exact copy, I don't expect. Being a very good value for money, I think is more realistic.
I could use another sealer gun as my original Astro Evo4014 has developed wear on the fan valve to where it leaks. The good thing about that is it uses the same Iwata W400/Kiwami4 type fluid nozzles, so that would give me a 1.4 option for the Berosslin. I am going to pull the trigger while it's on sale.. No pun intended 😅
@jesuszaragoza2473 the Berosslin is more akin to the Wider4/W400 LV2 setup as far as specifications are concerned. However, we can't say how close until one is compared in hand to the LV2/J2 air cap. I just ordered one a few minutes ago with the sale and added coin discount, bringing the total price to $56 shipped to the US. It will be replacing an older wearing Astro Evo4014, which is another W400 copy.
As far as the specs, we have to keep in mind that comparisons made on paper differ by the suggested inlet pressure. The Berosslin is suggested at .5 bar lower than the Iwata, just like the Dram's inlet pressure is rated differently than the compared Iwata model. That's enough to make some of those claimed differences in other aspects like fluid output, fan width, and air consumption. I highly doubt it would be an exact copy, but it still can be a high value. The good thing is that with the common design of the Berosslin fluid tip, from the Astro I'll have a 1.4 tip to go along with it if need be as I used the Astro for sealer, thus what the Berosslin will be used for.
Hi Pete hope you are keeping ok mate, very nice comparison between these two guns and considering the price difference they both give similar results as it was difficult to tell which was better from the video but I would expect a better finish from the WBX🤔the Dram does look like it's worth getting as for the price it looks like a well made gun it just depends on how reliable it will be👍
Do you think there is a big advantage of the 4 split tip over the 3 split tip setup, would the WS400 lay the clear better than the WBX🤔I was just wondering if the loss of speed from a 4 split tip is worth it for the better finish🧐🤷♂cheers Pete👍
Oh someone was asking me if it's possible to get a clear aircap for the Finer Core 1.3 HVLP or has he got to buy the complete gun🤔🤔👍
Hi John, Yes, I was comparing these two because one is a copy of the other, price will obviously be a consideration for most people, the Dram is certainly good for the money.
I think the WBX lays the clear as well as the WS400, I know many in the US fit a 3 split tip to their LPH400s as it speeds them up but keeps the quality, it not a huge speed increase though as you would expect I guess.
From memory, when I looked at this, on the Finer Core, to convert to HVLP from standard, you need the HVLP cap and plastic baffle. That's it, There is a difference on the pitch of the threads for fluid adjustment, the HVLP being finer, but that obviously doesn't matter that much, cheers mate 👍
I've seen the Dram for sale and it looks a good gun plus others on here also seem to like it.
I am interested in converting my W400 to a split tip and have mentioned it to you before but I think you said it's not worth it so I haven't done anything else about it but I hoped it would make it better and spray like the WBX, I don't know what I need to change it, probably the tip, needle and cap🤔
Thanks for the advice on the Finer Core mate, he has got the HVLP version which he was given to review but he want's to change it to the clear version but was told the parts are not available, I haven't seen ant tip sets for this gun🤷♂
Cheers mate👍
@JohnWD40TC02 Hi John, The needle is the same in all the W400, LPH400, and series 1 WS400 and LS400 for any size between and including 1.3 to 1.6, so for your Bellaria you would need a tip and cap, tips, normally sold in sets are the same for the WB and WBX, it's only the cap that's different.
Paintingtool_jp can get whatever parts are required for the Meiji Finer Core, if the person is in the UK then Meiji.co.uk keep the parts, they are part of BSS
beyondsurfacesolutions.co.uk/
Ok mate thanks for the info, I'll keep my eye out to see if I can pick up a second hand setup for my Bellaria 👍
He's in the USA but has since told me he found the aircap and plastic baffle for the gun so I think he's going to get one, cheers mate👍
@JohnWD40TC02 OK mate, you can sometimes pick the tips up on ebay, as I say, needles are the same. Cheers John 👍