Topping P50 Linear Power Supply Review - Is it worth it?
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- The Topping P50S is available here: amzn.to/311fppe or here: shenzhenaudio.com/products/to...
Or for a simple 5V USB power adapter you can use something like this: amzn.to/2CODVlG (Note: I have not specifically tested this model power supply, only others similar to it)
Music in this video: Come 2gether by Ooyy - You can get it here: www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
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TOPPING P50 SPECS
Compatible with global voltage
115V for AC100V-120V 50/60HZ,230V for AC220V-240V
Dimensions:11.0cm x 11.0cm x 5.2cm
Weight:0.88Kg
Power input: 110V / 220V AC 50Hz/60Hz
Color: Black / Silver
Power output: USB-A x 2, DC (5.5/2.1) x1
Power supply noise: less than 1mV rms
Output Power:
DC 5V 1A x2
DC 15V 1A
DC5V 1A x1＋DC15V 0.9A
DC5V 0.8A x 2＋DC15V 0.8A
PASSION FOR SOUND GEAR LIST
(Affiliate links to Amazon and Apos Audio help to support the channel - thank you!)
Desktop Sources
Playback software: Roon roonlabs.com/r/St5em2YsbUqGXc...
Primary DAC: Chord Hugo TT2 tinyurl.com/y4vys4zq with Chord M-Scaler tinyurl.com/y6hcm3kw
Secondary DAC for active speakers: Topping D50s amzn.to/2T2GExr upgraded with Muses02 op-amp amzn.to/2FtPmNj
USB cables: AudioQuest Diamond amzn.to/35AX4Qf and AudioQuest Coffee amzn.to/3059qiA
Active Speakers
Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 3 Speakers
Amps
Massdrop x THX AAA 789 Amplifier massdrop.7eer.net/J0xWa
Bottlehead Mainline DIY kit tube amplifier bottlehead.com/product/mainli...
Burson Audio FUN: www.bursonaudio.com/products/... with Sparkos Labs SS3601 op-amps: sparkoslabs.com/product/singl...
Headphones
Open: Meze Audio Empyrean tinyurl.com/y6gfyquz
Open: Focal Clear amzn.to/37Ihgky
Semi-open: Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium LE massdrop.7eer.net/L6633 or amzn.to/3bBg7xs
Closed: AudioQuest NightOwl Carbon (these may have been discontinued)
Closed: Audio Technica ATH-M50x amzn.to/2Y2NeXo
Closed: Meze Audio 99 Neo tinyurl.com/y2zjd6wm
Portable
Phone: Samsung Galaxy S10+ amzn.to/37MzTUA
DAC for phone: Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt amzn.to/36AzpAB
Digital audio player: Astell & Kern AK240 Stainless Steel amzn.to/2ZluP70
Earphones
Audiofly AF1120 Mk2: amzn.to/2ZoTuHZ
Noble Kaiser 10 custom IEM (discontinued) - universal version available via Drop massdrop.7eer.net/vkaWy
SIMGOT EN700 PRO amzn.to/304xO3R
Shozy Form 1.4 amzn.to/3cIL0Az or massdrop.7eer.net/499YL
Bluetooth Headphones
Nuraphone amzn.to/2N7G2Tu - Наука та технологія
I really appreciate your level-headed, click bait and hyperbole free, soft-spoken approach to audio reviews. And since stumbling upon your channel have begun to turn to it for a lot of my research into both function and the tech behind function. Thanks for all your work!
So glad I've been able to help. I do occasionally get excited about products, but still try to keep it balanced and grounded 🙂
Oh, gosh... I just saw your P50 review now, so detailed review, thank you so much!
Oh, I forgot to send you a link - sorry! Glad you like the review!
Great review Lachlan as usual. Also, cool product shot in the beginning!
Thanks Brocco! I think you'll like tomorrow's video's opening shots too. I'm very happy with it 😁
Out of it seems hundreds of audiophiles out there with a you tube channel you have THE BEST audio on your videos. That tells me you really do have a passion for sound. I'm betting it takes a bit more work to do that and it shows, so great job with that. It's refreshing. I told one guy it's like reviewing video products and having a black screen all of the time, it just doesn't make sense.
Wow. Thanks for the compliment. Music really is my passion so I'm glad that shows. I put a lot of thought into which track to choose for each video and also into ensuring the best vocal quality I can (short of covering my office walls in sound treatment).
Completely agree with the video, the astonishing defference between notebook/PC usb power and the P50 was like night and day to me. I can confidently say the sound from my D50s received a complete overhaul from the P50, I love it.
Glad it's not just me! 😉 It's a great example to demonstrate just how important power supplies are.
Thank you for this video. I too, subscrided. I had watched your review of the D50s in order to get an understanding of the seven filters. Upon watching this one, just ordered a P50 for my D50s.
So glad I could help! Thanks for the sub 🙂🙂
This is a great video. I've subscribed as a result. I researched power sources whilst awaiting my Topping E30's arrival this week and I can now confirm the performance difference between power sources is pretty astonishing. It sounds the most transparent while powered by a USB battery bank as there is no AC contamination from the mains supply but it has a fairly lean presentation due to the limited current output of the battery itself.
The winner so far out of a half a dozen or so USB power sources is a Samsung fast charger that has roughly ninety percent of the spaciousness and transparency of a purely DC power source with a warm and punchy tonal charterer and plenty of bass impact due to the current capacity and slew rate of the Samsung switch mode supply.
I was curious how much of a difference the P50 unit would made as this little DAC has now replaced a much more expensive source and I too have had a ton of fun rolling power supplies to observe the result. You've done well in putting those questions to rest and that is very much appreciated.
I think it's cool topping is selling these DACs without a power supply to allow the end user to invest as they see fit to maximize it's performance as their budget and taste allows.
Thanks Ben both for your compliment, but also for sharing your experiences. It's kind of like the modern version of the rolling! The E30 is a brilliant device. Have you tried the L30 yet? My review is coming up and I think the E30/ L30 combo could be one of the very best value options on the market that punch way beyond their price.
@@PassionforSound Cheers! I've not yet tried a Topping amplifier of any variety so I'm excited to the see your review. I hear it serves as a nice alternative to the JDS Labs Atom at the same price point. The E30 now has me contemplating selling my Schiit Asgard 3 I bought last fall with the Multibit DAC card installed as it's never had the wow factor I'm looking for and the E30 handily outperforms it now that it's powered properly. I drives planars well but is a bit dry sounding.
I look forward to the L30 review! If the P50 would power both adequately I might be able to make a case for it. It would double the cost of the E30 so I can't make a business case for it yet.
I've got an Asgard 3 on the way. I'll try to share a quick comparison either here or as an add on to the L30 review
@@PassionforSound Thank you, sir! That's very kind of you.
Got a new subscriber, baby!
Thanks so much for joining the crew!
I love seeing videos for the stuff I already own, lol!
If it says good things it can be fun, not so much if it's negative 🙂
This is the video that made me subscribe.
Thank you for subbing!
Excellent review! I was able to get the sparkos dual opamp into the d50s. I had to remove some of the aluminum to make this work. I also have the p50 power supply as well. The sound is absolutely amazing. The muses02 opamp is very good but the sparkos is on another level.
I've thought about doing that, buy not sure if my Dremel is quite powerful enough for the extended grinding involved. You've got me tempted now though! 🙂
Have you tried the d50s with muses02 powered with the p50 yet? And what did you think if you did. I’m guessing your review was with the stock opamp.
I have. It's actually my preferred setup.
Yes, review was with stock op-amps. Can't recall if I commented on the setup with the D50S in the review, but I really like the combo. Brings a great sense of space to the presentation.
@@PassionforSound I am looking at E50 + A50S, powered by P50, how does changing the op amps for the E50? Is it better to do with D50S or E50? Or doesn't matter and just go with D50S for the bluetooth?
I haven't looked to see if the E50 has swappable op-amps, but I'd buy it over the D50S regardless. It's a much better DAC even if you change the D50S op-amps
This reminds me of the argument that better measuring power supplies ( that have lower DC ripple etc.) in your computer helps your overclocking memory and video card reach higher stable clocks. I wonder if it would help the onboard sound card as well.
That's an interesting question! I'd guess that it might.
Thanks for your reviews appreciated. See that you rate the E30 over the D50s , would that remain your view with an improved power supply on both? Thank you and loving your review style.
Hi Christian. Glad you like the reviews - thanks! I'd choose the E30 either way because both will improve with the better power supply and the E30 starts with a better base performance. The D50S needs an op-amp change to get closer/better and it's fiddly and not worth it IMO
@@PassionforSound thank you really appreciated
My pleasure
Superb and extremely detailed review, I have the excellent Topping D50s with a JDS Labs Atom headphone Amp & a pair of sennheiser HD660s headphones.
I was fascinated to hear that different ( switching mode) phone chargers can improve the sound quality of the D50s I’m currently using a 5watt 1amp Apple phone charger but I also have a spare iPad charger so I will try that & see ( or rather hear) how it goes.
But I’m interested in squeezing the upmost from my D50s so I think I will save up and get the P50.
have you reviewed the Topping A50 yet as it would be an interesting stack to review altogether A50/D50s/P50
Hi Mike, glad it was helpful! It's fun trying all the different power supplies. The P50 is a nice improvement.
I haven't tried the A50 as yet. I've got the A90 here and L30 on the way, but no A50 - sorry. I'll see if I can try one in the future.
Passion for Sound Thanks so much it would be really interesting to hear your opinions on the A50 should you manage to procure one at a later date.
When I tried the Apple iPad phone charger it did make a difference ( I was listening to Mary’s in India by Dido) and to me It sounded less enjoyable & Didos vocals seemed to be moved to the background.
I repeated the A to B comparison with different tracks and different artists & & found the 5watt 1amp charger actually gave me a more detailed & more enjoyable sound than the iPad 18watt 5amp charger to which I was very surprised
Really interesting! Thanks for sharing, Mike
I followed a similar process with my Topping E30. USB power was disappointing given the good reviews. An Apple power brick provided an improvement. My power brick provided great results. My best brick could probably continuously power the E30 for 3 or 4 days, but that would shorten the life of the brick with constant use. I now use the iFi 5V linear power supply. It's $50 USD and gives great results.
Hi Keith, that's good to hear about the iFi because you're right about the battery devices being harmed by constant use and charging like that. Thanks for sharing!
So, if im getting this correctly. Using a phone charger is already an upgrade enough from using regular PC usb output power? Because i can't afford to spend another 50-100$ for the power supply
@@MrBlitzpunk For me, a power brick was an upgrade over USB power from the audio source. But you'll have to let your ears decide what you prefer.
@@keithjohnson2863 my power sockets have one of those USB output, i guess i'll try that out first
Absolutely! Just use a phone charger and it's a big improvement
Still awaiting my Pa5 as out of stock si in the mean time,, do you consider the P50 to have sufficient output to power my E50 ans L50? loved the review again.
I don't have the P50 here to check. It'll be fine on the E50, but you should probably check the specs for the L50's power requirements
Would this be able to power a project tube box s2 at the same time as one of the USB outputs?
Unlikely, Michael. The P50 has very low current (amps) output. Most amplifiers need more current.
Thank you for doing this video. I was thinking of getting the P50 to power a chord quetest, but did notice that you mentioned that it could not power that DAC. Did I understand it correctly? The quetest requires 5V 1A so I thought the P50 would be able to. I'm going to try the switch mode suggestions that you suggested too.
It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure the Qutest required more power than the P50 could provide.
The included power supply with the Qutest is pretty good so I wouldn't bother with phone chargers, but some battery power banks can work well and a higher current (e.g. 5V, 3A) linear power supply can be even better.
@@PassionforSound thank you for the reply. Love your reviews
My pleasure! Glad you like the content
Great review. So quick question, I just bought P50 for powering my Chromecast Audio just to avoid jitter from the Toslink output which goes to my SMSL M500 DAC. The challenge is that I can't power the M500 by the P50. Anyways, I am getting a blacker background with the Chromecast Audio when compared to my Laptop USB put through my AQ Forest USB cable. 1) Any ideas how I can clean the background of my USB out as I need it for my Peace EQ setup? Also, 2) would you recommend upgrading the THX 789 power supply to the linear PSU? Thanks
Hi Shoaib, I think it's easy to go crazy with things like this and it's really just a final 1% type improvement for most devices (i.e. those that don't rely on USB power).
I haven't done any testing of other alternative power supplies and I'm honestly reluctant to go down that path as I believe there is a lot of truth to the wisdom that linear power supplies aren't necessarily better than SMPS so there are probably only minor gains to be had swapping out the power supplies for devices like the 789. You'd likely have to spend as much as the 789 to get a significantly better LPS and I doubt it would then match an amplifier twice the price. Other than that, a product like the AudioQuest JitterBug or Schiit's equivalent might improve the USB sounds quality on the M500.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the detailed response. I can confirm that the P50 did make slight difference ie removed some of the glare perhaps due to jitter when powering the Chromecast Audio. Apart from that, for USB I am gonna try the ifi ipurifier 3 USB cleaner and see as the Jitterbug kinda made my music lifeless and took away some of the high frequency info. Just looking around for a good deal on that. Good luck with the videos mate.
Good idea on the iPurifier and good luck finding a deal. Thanks for the support!
It’s crazy easy to fry the D50s if you plug it into the wrong port, as both inputs into the A50s and D50s are identical in appearance.
Excellent use of a penny label to save a $250 dac :)
Very true! Same size DC sockets and plugs can be very dangerous when you're running different voltages
I LIKE to try replace the ASUS sound card in my Desk PC by buying a simple D10S to connect to my desk top active speakers. But now I am worry about the possible bad effectnoise effect of the simple USB output transfer data and PC power. I am think of use the HS01 USB noise isolator and attach a external DC power to reduce switching noise. Will this work to improve the SQ of the D10s. If not, I will try the E30II with/without the HS01 and attach a nice 5V DC source (P50). Dont worry for me about the C/P for doing either way, D10s ans E30 II are both not cost too much. Thank you.
The HS01 or HS02 should help, but I'd personally use the E30 II for a significant performance upgrade, especially with a quality power supply.
I have the Topping DX3 Pro+ with its own power supply (15V/1A). Will it make any difference sound wise if I buy the P50 LPS to power the DX3?
Nice video and very informative btw. Greets from GR.
Glad you liked the video. I'm pretty sure the supplied power pack is a switch mode power supply so the linear power supply of the P50 (or alternatives) may provide some improvement
@@PassionforSound Yes, it's a switch mode power supply the one that comes with the DX3 Pro+.
Thanx for the info.
I use the P50 power supply to power my RasPi streamer and Hifiberry Amp4. It makes a huge difference in quality, especially in the low frequencies. I'm a big fan of linear power now. I wish they would make a higher voltage unit. Still, I love the P50.
Bought a P50 to go with my E30 a week ago. Sounds very similar to other power supplies until I started listening to the music instead of the system. First, and I’m surprised cause it’s only a 5v supply was the improvement in dynamic range. Notes seemed to bloom. Second was the purity of the sound, without the R50 there was a (sawdusty?) grain to the sound that was probably coming from the noise of the other power sources. Without the grain you could then hear what it was masking. I’ve tried numerous wall warts and a battery. When I first listened with the P50 I thought it was better but listening for the why was fun. The power supply from the R50 seems to be buffered with a large bank of electrolytic capacitors which must have a low dialect absorption to make it so quiet. I wonder what some small polypropylene bypasses would do?
Glad you've had a chance to hear this for yourself and that you're liking the results! I can't say what the various caps do - sorry
@@PassionforSound electrolytic caps tend to react slower to changes in voltage than film capacitors.
Adding to my earlier comments regarding this , what topping amps can be used with this? As I understand the L30 isn't suitable due to its AC input?
I don't know if any amps work with the P50. Maybe some older ones? I've never checked. It's a very low current power supply and most amps need 3A or more to operate due to the power requirements of driving lower resistance loads.
Apparently when the a50s is used with the p50 it can't output its full power. Any idea whether a p50s with more power is in the pipeline so it can unlock the a50s' full power?
I don't have any inside contacts with Topping so I'm not sure. It doesn't surprise me to hear about the limitations though because the P50S is a low current power supply and amps need more current.
Testing power bank again today I noticed that the E30 somehow sounds a lot cleaner than the apple phone charger, but it gets more shrill, a little thin, the apple phone charger despite sounding slightly harsh and less clear at the same time sounds more relaxed and with better bass , didn't you notice that the sound got more ''thin'' with the P50? or was it more ''warm'' and calm? just asked why i plan to buy a p50.
The P50 made the D50S sound smoother and calmer as you put it - definitely not thin. The same should apply to the E30
Great video I have quick question I recently purchased Topping DX3 Pro + requires 15v 1A I purchased iFI Audio Power V1 but for some reason wont powered on . I reached out to APOS they reply back Topping uses any standard 15v DC power adapter, any remommendation power supply or just go with Topping P50
I don't have a specific recommendation so the P50 is probably a good choice. I'm surprised the iFi doesn't work though.
Thank you on your in-depth coverage. I just wonder if the USB Powerbank is worth to look into powering the DAC over the Topping P50.
Hi Moh is, a USB power bank will be as good or better than the P50 if you're happy to keep recharging it. Some will be fine plugged in permanently too.
@@PassionforSound Thank you for your reply. I currently used a 30k mAh Powerbank and has surpassed of 20hrs coverage with balance of 91%. Guessed I have plenty of juice to go for before the next charge.
By the way I have 20k mAh as backup, cause it takes 12hrs to charge the 30k mAh Powerbank.
Keep the good work and stay healthy.
Yep, sounds like you've got plenty of juice available 🙂 and your setup should sound about as good as it can.
Take care and thanks for contributing!
@@PassionforSound You welcome.
@@PassionforSound Really? Do you sir know that powerbank also has always dc/dc step up converter that can cause little to freaking lot of noise depending on how good it was implemented. Also quality of components used and quality of assembly(bad solder etc.) Stating that, powerbank is on par or better than a specialized power source, I'd say may vary by Huge amount depending on how good powerbank converter is. Also it is so easy to measure cleanliness of dc power source. Accurate enough oscilloscope costs fraction of those DACs you review.
Also you can use a soundcard as oscilloscope there are plenty tutorials on that matter. All those reflections on how power sources "sound" are rather dubious with 0 measurements taken
Would u think its ok to power my E30 dac and my liquid spark amp at the same time? Or would i be better off using what came with my amp and just powering my e30 alone
I'm pretty sure the P50 doesn't have sufficient current for the Liquid Spark even on its own so you probably can only power the E30
@@PassionforSound thank you, you did mention its meant more for topping devices. I will try to just power it with a stock psu
Just added one of these to my E30ii driving by my smsl HO100 amp driving Sundaras and WOW! Its only when you add one of these to the system in my case the DAC that you suddenly realise what was missing in your system, ordinarily you wouldnt notice the difference but adding this to the mix lowers the noise floor considerably every instrument seems more 'meaty' added texture and solidity, much cleaner sound increased seperation and just overall much better. This is far more than a tweak its added true value to your system, if you have any suitable products to utilise this then i heartily recommend spending the money. Iam now considering selling my SMSL and buying an L30ii in order that i can utilise the P50 more.
Iam not entirely sure if the added value of adding it to the L30 will make a big a difference as adding it to my E30???
So glad you got the chance to hear it for yourself! The amps use an AC power supply so the P50 won't work with the L30, L50, etc.
In the D50s + P50 vs Qutest test, what power supply was used with the Qutest?
Additionally, I'm very interested to know how a power bank alters the sound.
Thanks for the review. I didnt expect a LPS make that much difference.
You're welcome! I used the standard Qutest power supply. The Qutest requires a higher current than the P50 can provide.
How much is the IDLE power consumption for a linear power supply when plugged in in the socket (amp is off)?
I'm not sure - sorry.
Been thinking of trying this topping LPS to my iFi Zen Dac (5V/2.5A)
I can't remember the specs now, but I seem to recall the Topping having very low available current so it might not provide the 2.5A. Best to check before you buy
@@PassionforSound
Yes it is as low as 0.5A output from the topping.
Thought so. Probably a no-go for the iFi then ☹️
What about power strips with USB connections. Would those be similar to a computer USB port or a switching power supply?
They should be more like a switching supply IME
@@PassionforSound Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for the review. Just discovered your channel. I am an Aussie expat in Sri Lanka so nice to hear the Aussie twang. I look forward to more reviews as I try to build my system without trialling here.
Hi kjbiz, glad you found me! Hope Sri Lanka is treating you well during these interesting times
@@PassionforSound Yes grew up in Melbourne so nice to here someone from there. I am now considering D30/E30 combo or Schiit Asgard 3 for my work set up. Any recommendations?
Or the D50s/A50s combo??
That's where I live now (grew up in Sydney). I'm assuming you mean L30/E30? Or do you mean either D30 or E30 plus Asgard?
The E30 is great, but I haven't heard the D30. I've got Asgard 3 here now for review and I really like it, but I haven't compared to the Topping L30 yet and that's the real test. Either way, very hard to go wrong with what you're looking at.
What's your budget (in USD or AUD)?
@@PassionforSound Thanks. I lived in Sydney for a couple of years in my youth, in Erskineville. Sorry yes I mean the L30/E30 combo. I was originally looking at A50s/D50s combo. It is for my office at work. so would be coming off my MacBook Pro and using Hifiman Sundara's. Was looking at Meze but again availability) Looking at spending around AUD500 - AUD700 approx. The problem is with import here as they sometimes hit you up with a 30% duty so need to be conscious of where it is coming from. Thanks for your help.
Question, the likes of the E30 are rated as 5v 1amp. Apple chargers and the like are rated at 5v 2+ amps - is this not dangerous as regards current?
Hi Andrea, you always need to match voltage, but more current is fine. The current rating is about how hard the power supply CAN push, but the device itself controls how much current it actually draws. Too much voltage = 🔥, too much current means you will never run out of juice 🙂
@@PassionforSound brilliant, thanks for the confirmation 👌😊
My pleasure
I have topping A50s and E30. Can i use it for both of them?
I think the A50s will require too much current and maybe voltage. The P50s is a very low current power supply so best to check what the A50s needs and then compare that to the output specs of the P50s
Thank you for the insightful review. I bought P50 for two devices: Ifi Zen Stream (requires 15V-0.8A) and Schiit Modius (requires 5V-0.5A). With these two devices on P50, the manual says P50 could support 5V-1A + 15V-0.9A. However, I felt something is not quite right, specially the low-end notes are light and loose. What I found is that, although Modius only calls for 5V-0.5A but it actually need 5V-2A to get its punchiness and Schiit's house sound. The SMPS adapter comes with Modius is also in 5V-2A. I also contacted Schiit (actual human not AI) and they told me to use 5V-2A. On the other hand, Ifi ZS fed with the 15V-1A tap (alone) performs well, although I am not sure if other LPS with larger power (say 25VA) that provides juicier 15V-1.5A will outperform P50.
What do you think? Is it necessary to supply the DAC or Streamer with larger power LPS to get the best performance?
That's very interesting about the power requirements. Thanks for sharing. As for which needs the power supply more, every device is different so you can really only try them for yourself and see which sounds best.
@@PassionforSound Thank you.
Does the P50 have much of an effect on the A50s as well?
I haven't tried the A50S to know for sure, but I've got a review of linear power supplies across a range of devices coming soon and they're almost always improved by the LPS
I had found an improvement with Ifi I power with topping E30 and E50 but not with other stuff eg Amazon Firestick. Max with the Ifi Ipower 2
Thanks for sharing your experiences
soo.. to get best results, do you put the PSU ABOVE or UNDER the D50s?
Lol. Neither. Just get a battery supply that can be charged while in use 😉
@@PassionforSound hmm this reminds of my digitech trio stompbox in which I needed to use 9V boost converter from my powerbank to get rid of noise..
You don't HAVE to use the P50 or a different supply to get good sound, but it definitely improves the sound of their products that don't already come with external power supplies
Now my question is this, I know absolutely nothing about DACs and Amps, you are using the Apple usb charge and usb to dac, how do you connect the DAC to a pc via usb?
Good question, John. The D50S has separate power and USB inputs, but it comes with a cable designed to source the power from the computer USB. What I'm doing here is trying different connections for the power section, but still using USB from the PC for the audio
Can i Connect both my streamer and dac to the p50?
It all comes down to power requirements. The outputs from the P50 are very limited in terms of specific voltages (5V and 15V DC I think) and also the maximum current available. You'd need to check what your devices need in terms of both voltage (V) and current (A) and see if the P50 is capable
Does the topping P50 improve the Chord Mojo 2 sound when it goes into desktop mode? I use my P50 to power my Mojo 2 but I can't be sure if there are any improvements between that and battery power. The Topping M50 along with the chord mojo 2 powered by the P50 make a nice little stack. I feel usb sounds best, what are your thoughts? Usb, optical or co-ax?
I've not tested that with the Mojo 2, but it's unlikely it will improve the sound due to the way the power is managed in the Mojo 2
@@PassionforSound and your thoughts on which output from the Chord Mojo 2 sound best to your ears?
The Mojo 2 only has the two 3.5mm outputs and they're identical
@@PassionforSound apologies, I ment inputs.
I was connecting mojo 2 to PC via USB. Recently I tried a cheap DDC from Amazon which converts USB signal to coax. It significantly improved sound stage. The idea is that not only USB connection is noisy, the USB receiver in mojo 2 is also noisy.
Any chance to revews Topping PA5 amp?
I only do headphones I'm afraid - sorry
Has anyone tried this with a Topping D30, which would use the 15V output of the P50? I'm itching to try but not sure if it would make a difference.
I haven't. Do you know what the current requirement of the D30 is? I don't know if the P50 would supply enough at 15V, but I guess they designed it to power something at 15V so maybe...
@@PassionforSound I took the plunge and bought it for Black Friday. The website advertises compatibility, so I will report back in case anyone is still interested!
Great! Hope you enjoy a nice upgrade!
Would two of these work with a TT2 and an M-scaler?
Hi Marco, no they wouldn't. The current requirements are too high. Also, the TT2 doesn't benefit from external power supplies due to its internal super capacitor setup. The M-Scaler definitely does benefit, but you'll need a 12-15V supply with 3A or more IIRC.
A great option that I'll be testing soon is the Kraftwerk II linear power supply from Giesler Audio here in Australia (but I believe he can supply worldwide)
@@PassionforSound I'm a fellow Aussie, too.... I'll look into it. Thanks mate!
Brilliant. Definitely check out the Giesler power supplies. Tell Clay that I referred you and I'm sure he'll take great care of you 😉
Compared to my good Aqvox linear power supply unit (not manufactured anymore), the Topping P50 has a more open and deep soundstage. This is done by increasing the treble level. However, the bass and slam are lacking. Instruments sound thin and not natural.
Interesting to hear, Steve. The perceived treble increase is often due to noise in the system which makes sense when comparing the P50 against a more expensive, higher quality LPS.
I spy a Chord Hugo TT and MScaler!
We'll spotted! I was wondering who'd be first to pick that out.
Would the P50 be able to power the ifi zen can? The zen can is 5 volt but the power adapter is 5 volt 2.5 amp. The topping is 5 volt 1 amp. Would i just get a reduction in volume if i did?
It's generally not a good idea to use a power supply with less current than needed. It can result in random shutdowns of the product and distortion of the output due to clipping of the signal when the amp can't produce sufficient power due to the limited input current
@@PassionforSound I have the Hifiman Sundara and Edition xs too. I've bought the Ifi Zen Can and will just use the included power supply. I will use the P50 to power my topping M50 music player and provide desktop power to my chord mojo 2. I also have a Denon usb 300 but the headphone amp is not great. So I will just use the dac side of the denon connected to the Ifi Zen Can signature. I know topping designed the P50 for its own range of products but why didn't they make it more compatible with other equipment? I can't understand why it didn't work with your Chord Quietest dac as it's 5 volt and chord say 5 volt 1 amp minimum I believe.
A bit more current capability would have been helpful, but they'd have had to make it bigger I think and it was originally designed to stack with the D50 so that would have limited the size
So sorry for being stupid here. But I'm guessing that instead of powering your DAC through the USB-port of your computer you power it through a charger in your outlet? How would sound then come from you computer?
Not stupid at all. These DACs have separate USB and power inputs - they just come with a USB-A to DC connector so you can take power from a second USB outlet on your computer or a separate USB power source.
I don't think I've ever seen a sexier B-roll shot of a humble power board before! 😂
Your results were unsurprising given how much electrical noise computer and laptop components can generate. I'd be interested to see if something like a Raspberry Pi would provide a cleaner power supply than a PC/laptop due to its lower power requirements.
That being said, I've seen power conditioners and audiophile power cables sell for thousands of dollars, and I doubt I'd be able to tell any immediate improvement without very highly resolving components.
Haha. I had lots of trouble trying to make power adapters, cables and power boards look attractive - glad it paid off!!
I've heard that RPis can be pretty noisy with their power supplies and a lot of the add-on audio boards provide inputs for external power for that very reason. As for audiophile power conditioners and power cables, I think it largely depends on the product and where you live. Some countries have noisier power than others and some products have better power filtration built in. I see it as one of those 'last 1%' type upgrades
Weirdly when using a Samsung or Apple charger for the Topping E30 DAC, the low end is off and muffled. When I plug it directly into laptop, my word, the sound quality improves significantly.
That does sound strange. I found a noticeable difference when using external power supplies, but for the better. Not sure what would be causing that...
your laptop probably has lesser noise with the USB port being powered by the laptop battery
Normally, just the many components inside a laptop (Bluetooth, wifi, CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD/HDD) will all produce lots of noise so it's unusual for a laptop USB to be cleaner regardless of the use of battery or mains power.
@@PassionforSound I ended up getting the P50 power supply. It was better than using the charger, better than the laptop as well. Bass is where I noticed most of the difference. A lot tighter bass and not muffled. Nice clean sound. I have a feeling this is one of those times it is the setup with my room and amount of noise in the line, stand out of the norm. May also be how I perceive the sound differently.
That's great to hear! The P50 is definitely a nice addition and I did find it to be a further improvement over the phone chargers. Glad you're enjoying it!
so do you recommend linear Power supply for optimal sound?
Yes, for the absolute best I think either the P50 or a battery pack (if you can be bothered having to recharge it or ruining it by leaving it permanently charging).
The phone chargers get you 90-95% of the way there though so it really depends on how important that last increment is
@@PassionforSound
Nice man,
this video opened my mind.
I thought about the following, if a power bank can give a dac a cleaner sound, would the same apply to an amplifier? if for example I turn on my amp and my dac each in a power bank, would there be any improvement? (additional improvement)
No problems. There's no reason the same won't apply to an amp although perhaps to a slightly lesser degree because the power in a DAC is crucial to both the decoding of the signal and the analog output stage whereas an amp is only the analog amplification.
Do keep in mind, that most amps demand a lot more current and voltage than a DAC so you may struggle to find a suitable powerbank for the amp.
@@PassionforSound
Great! what do you think about this cheap linear power supply Jameco reliapro? www.amazon.com/Jameco-Reliapro-DDU050100H4660-Adapter-Transformer/dp/B00B88ENAG
That will be a switch mode power supply, but should do fine and will be better than the USB power. A simple phone charger will be just as good though.
It is of course system dependent. The power supply not only sends noise to D50s, but also to all other gears plugged to the wall socket.
Hi azzinny, are you saying the P50 creates noise on the power circuit?
@@PassionforSound Yes, of course. It is common to all "linear" power supplies and switching mode power supplies.
Cool. Thanks for confirming
Why would Burson and Apple switching sound different? Would this be the same worldwide? I try to never use a shared USB or DC power path, same with instruments and effect pedals
It all comes down to the RF noise created and/or rejected by the power supply as far as I know. Switching supplies create noise that needs to be filtered out so as not to interact with the circuitry of the downstream device. I don't know enough to explain it further, but that's the explanation I've heard from engineers who make these products.
@@PassionforSound is there a way to measure the difference? I wouldn't enjoy sitting and listening to a bunch of options but it would be nice to be able to quantify it and figure out the value that matters. Apple seems to have good engineering but they don't waste money either, and then use wasn't intended, so it must be something cheap to implement in parts
There might be ways to measure it, but that's beyond my level of knowledge. What I can tell you is that it's definitely not cheap (or easy) to perfectly filter out the RF noise. That's why many super high end setups have separate power supplies, power filtering, etc. it's a significant challenge to solve.
I think the real test would be to plug the switch mode phone charger into a mains conditioner power strip and then see if you could tell the difference.
Hi John, I think that will depend a lot on which country you're in (as I understand it) because some countries seem to get significant benefit from such products while others are more limited in the impact. I've not put any time into testing these devices though so I may be wrong about this...
With phone chargers and similar switch mode power supplies, 99% of the noise is on the low voltage output due to poor filtering after the switching regulator. You can easily prove this by placing a small medium wave transistor radio near the low voltage output cable. You will hear loud wide band hash. This can easily be removed by building an L/C low pass filter. Filtered correctly the switch mode power supply will sound just as good as a linear power supply.
@@jimdavis5230 what do you mean by L/C low pass filter? a ferite core for example?
@@myplaguesify Yes an inductor wound on a ferrite core with capacitance to ground.
I sent it back because I have a D50 L50 Stack and the P50 provides 15VDC not the 15VAC I need for my L50.....
Yeah, the AC inputs on some of the new amps is a bit of a trap
A word of caution, S.M.S.L. warn users not to use fast charge mode power supplies because of possible voltage discrepancies.
Good to know. Thank you for sharing!
So p50 not a good choice for a chord dac, eg a tt2. What lps makes sense for a tt2?
I've been looking into that myself and it seems there's no benefit in using an LPS with the TT2 because it uses internal super capacitors (i.e. the external power supply doesn't influence any of the DAC circuitry). The M-Scaler is a very different story, but save your money with the TT2 and stick with the supplied SMPS.
@@PassionforSound awesome, thanks
@@PassionforSound how about the qutest? I would think that it's the same as a Hugo without the power supply so it would be the ideal combination with the topping
In theory yes, but the Qutest needs more current than the P50 produces ☹️
Tbh, I never heard anyone praising the sound of a switching power supply.
Maybe watch my Burson Super Charger review 😁
Review was just what I wanted - much appreciated. However, the sound cues are a bit annoying. And fifteen minutes to get to the result?
Glad I could help. This is quite an old video now so things are a bit different with the newer ones 🙂
Did you or can you compare these power supplies blind?
Hi Timmy, no I didn't
@@PassionforSound You should do, because a lot of the "audiophile change"s people find are not visible at all when you use a spectrum analyzer or doing a blind test.
Hi becks, spectrum analysers don't tell us all there is to know about how something sounds so don't put too much weight into measurement-only reviews. I agree that blind testing can be very helpful when we need to manage expectation bias, but it really wasn't necessary in this situation because I had no idea what to expect. In reviews where I have expectations of any variety I am very careful to control for these in my listening tests
@@PassionforSound Well as long as you only try to change the power supply on the DAC which has an analog output signal which can be affected by other analog signals (electrical noise in the end is just another analog signal, just like the sound), I am ok with what you say. There is a reason why the spend a lot of work on building the powersupplies in amps.
But stay away from the "influence of power supplies on the digital signals" (aka power supply influence on the USB/SPDIF cable from the streamer to the DAC), because that would be nonsense.
I'm not sure I agree that we can claim nonsense when it comes to power supplies on digital equipment, particularly given the significant impact that the power supply to the Hugo M-Scaler can have and that operates solely in the digital domain. I believe there are still a lot of things that we don't understand about sound reproduction and much of it can't be properly measured still
I use a battery pack as dac power supply. Zero noise.
Yeah, I didn't think to test that in my review process, but it's the ideal option for perfect power.
@@PassionforSound I have a Topping D50s , using Li battery pack. Noise non exist. Best of all I use solar panels to charge my battery pack. Feeling very good.
Nice! Very planet friendly and sounds great too! 🙂
I need to try this. I have a ton of power banks. So do you just keep it plugged in and output from the bank to the topping?
Also is the PC your source? If so what are you using optical or another type of connection?
@@Princeton_James Yes. The are dc power, no noise
A battery would be good if you drove the dac directly, as this would rule out any noise. But the Li-Ion battery runs at 2.7-4.2V, so you need a switch-mode step-up converter to train it to 5V. Because they are basically chargers, their manufacturers do not deal with 5V noise. The best is a good quality linear power supply.
In my experience, they're still preferable to phone chargers and USB, but I do agree that an LPS provides maximum quality
@@PassionforSound ♥️🙂
@@PassionforSound Does that mean you would now recommend the P50 over the battery pack you mentioned ( amzn.to/3m22IFn ) for the Topping E50? In the E50 review you recommended the battery pack over the P50. This battery pack mentions 5V output so I'm a bit confused by the comments here.
I don't particularly like the P50 because of its very limited current output. I'd personally choose the battery still because the improvement to an LPS is only minor and the convenience of being able to drive more current hungry devices is valuable I think
@@PassionforSound Thanks, I've ordered a battery and will give it a go!
I'm using power bank on my D50s
They work really well, don't they!
@@PassionforSound d50s test ua-cam.com/video/KYceSHvkxyo/v-deo.html
After bought one for SMSL Sanskrit 10th MKII my opinion is: listening to music without it is like drinking Dom Perignon from a plastic cup.
It makes a nice improvement, doesn't it? I like the analogy
@@PassionforSound Yes, if I listen to my ears I can only recommend it.
Hi!
Can you please tell me how you connected your smsl to the P50.
My impression is that the sound was better with my phone charger ! 😑
@@Mikaelsson If this is your impression, then I don't understand the question. The important thing is that it is good for you.
@@robertmay3505
My question really is if I have connected it properly
What power supply is recommended for qutest. ?
Personally, I'd stick with the supplied power supply and spend the money on better amplification, headphones, speakers or interconnects and similar cables. The gains you're likely to achieve from an upgraded PS are smaller in my experience than by adding better components.
If you're still keen though, start by looking into devices like this: www.sbooster.com/botw-pp-eco-5v-6v/chord-qutest
Disclaimer: I HAVE NOT tested this device and AM NOT recommending it. I'm just giving you somewhere to start 🙂
Passion for Sound what are your thoughts on running the qutest 5v off the grid with an external USB power bank ?
I can't remember the exact current draw of the Qutest, but if you can get a power bank with sufficient current, it should be as clean a power source as you can get.
Too bad it's only rated 1A for the 5V output. Ik currently have a ifi iPower powering my Beelink GT King Android box and wanted to replace this with the Topping P50 but de Beelink requires a 2A power supply. :(
Yeah, the P50 is very limited and really only good for Topping's DACs
It will power the Qutest! 1A is just fine, I’m sure the Qutest manual says so
I think it's worth double-checking that. My memory is that the Qutest has a 3A power supply and it's running an FPGA chip so it's going to draw more power than you're average DAC.
@@PassionforSound "A 2A supply is shipped with qutest, but it will work fine with a 1A 5V supply." --Rob Watts (head-fi post).
Thanks for the info!
Time to bust out the conductonaut
The conductonaut?
I use a powerbank for my E30.
It's a really nice upgrade, Bob.
I also use a power bank for my topping E30 and improved a lot. I wonder if buying a linear power supply will make a great difference or powerbank is enough.
@@bernier55 My powerbank is noisier than a 3$ wallwart when charging while in use, an I got tired of recharging it:) Audible grinding switching noise through speakers and headphones. Just last week i got the ifi audio ipower. No switching noise, none, through my Klipsches. None of the wallwarts or USB slots I tried ever managed that. It's not cheap (I payed half of the cost of a my E30) but linear PSU will set you back at least the same amount.
@@Bob.martens I always charge the powerbank at night, so I have no problem with the carge. I wonder if with topping P50 for example I will hear an improvement in sound quality. I have no inmidiate acces to ifi power or Topping P50 in my country, in both cases I musti import it via Amazon.
A power bank should be the best possible option so a LPS will not improve and may actually degrade the sound depending on the quality of the LPS.
I use it for some years now on a topping dac and my streamer.
Let me tell you there is no turning back to the basic stuff
I use it in a highend setup with audio research,accuphase and jeff rowland electronics and you can absolutely hear a great jump forward
For the money a bargain and a no brainer..
A nice LPS can make such a good addition to a well-chosen system. Glad you're enjoying yours!
For the price I would want it to provide power to 3 devices concurrently. It is a shame that it is underpowered to support the 3 inputs simulataneously.
I agree that it's very limited, but the size and price of an LPS to handle more voltage and current would be significantly greater (unless corners were cut)
@@PassionforSound While it makes absolutely no audibled difference, if it provided a single source for multiple devices rather than my collection of power supplies it might have some value.
Yeah, that would be handy for sure to have less plugs and long cables everywhere
A brick like this… 1A 😳
Yeah. It's pretty low powered. Not sure if it's due to the need to dissipate heat or something else.
@@PassionforSound I had in mind to buy one to power the Raspberry Pi 4 portion of my Pi2AES. After watching your review, I’m going to turn to another option. Thanks!
Yeah, not really an option for anything more than a DAC due to processor and or output requirements of other devices.
My question is why not providing a normal Power supply with the E30 DAC? This is the answer!!!! Why if they can sell an other similar one for the same price as the E30??? ;-) Well done again greedy Topping!!!!!
I think it's more about keeping the price low for those wanting a budget DAC. It's not like they've made it difficult to power from a USB socket or phone charger
@@PassionforSound yeah but adding a cheap and "a little better then usb" Topping power supply would have been much better. I wanted to buy this and plug it to a power socket. I heard that a dedicate normal Topping power supply is better then a usb with an iphone normal usb power adapter. To buy separate.would cost quite a bit... Probably 20-30 AUD.
It will all come down to cost to produce, profit margins and the retail price required to achieve both. I don't know Topping's specific pricing strategy and I do agree that including a simple wall wart would have been preferable, but there would be some science or logic to their decision and not just about forcing people to spend more.
Here's another test you should consider trying. Use a Power Bank.
A Power Bank requires no rectification and should produce the cleanest per possible.
Hi Paul, do you mean a battery style supply? That's a great suggestion!
@@PassionforSound
Yes. The large rechargeable battery packs that you can recharge your phone or tablet from. Many of these can provide 2 amps or more for larger devices. They should provide the cleanest power possible. Good way to benchmark any audio device that can run on USB power.
Are there any "audiophile power banks" around? I've wondered before why I haven't seen any. It would surprise me if no companies have ever come up with them, but I've never heard of anyone having done it. I don't generally see people talking at all about powering their audio gear with batteries though, so maybe that's why.
Power banks don't really need to be "audiophile" because batteries create no noise to start with - they're pure DC to begin with. There are products out there that use this concept already like the Chord Hugo 2 and Hugo TT2 (uses capacitors instead of batteries, but same concept)
@@PassionforSound I know there's no sense or reason for them to exist, but that won't stop some people. I'm more surprised though that I don't see anyone selling their own-brand packs. Companies have their own power supplies, but it seems that none market batteries as an upgrade.
You have to do blind testing, otherwise you are hearing things. I started my music journey in 1976, friends we’re listening to Macintosh receivers, I had a technics 70 watts receiver, I borrowed his Macintosh for a month no difference. The 90’s came along, another audiophile friend was listening to a LeVINson 50 watt amp, I used an adcom gfa 555 ll, again no difference, I still own a $800 75 ohm digital cable, compared it to a $25 Chinese cable still no difference.
Blind testing has its own challenges that can mask the differences in a similar way to sighted testing creating bias. There's no one right way to test audio gear and I think a blend of extended listening, quick switching, etc. is necessary to properly understand what an audio device is/isn't doing.
You seem like a knowledgeable thoughtful audiophile, but... Complete measurements of the D50 / D50s by Audio Science Review and many others show that it's output is essentially perfect, and that the D50's distortion, frequency accuracy, and noise does not measurably change at all using a wide variety of power supplies. A well designed DAC like the D50 should be designed to do that. Since you notice a 10-20% sound improvement when you change power supplies (perhaps I misunderstood what you said), I would think that big a change would be easily measurable by test equipment. We certainly know that all humans are subject to confirmation bias. Since your listening tests were not double blind, can you be confident that the major but not measurable differences you heard were not the result of your expectations?
Hi GG, measurements can't actually pickup all that we can hear. There's no doubt that expectations can alter our perception, but in the case of the P50 I was expecting no major difference so it's not expectation bias that I'm hearing as it goes against my expectations, not with them.
The big flaw with the pure measurement approach is that there are 100% audible differences between products that measure almost identically - the Topping D90 and D50 are a good example. I'm still working on an explanation as to why this is and it comes down to the circuit designs, but I'm not yet clear on the why of it given that measurement shows no significant distortion differences.
@@PassionforSound true that. the Audio Science Review measurements are not using the material we're hearing. It's not even telling rolling frequency response. They'll have to change the method otherwise their measurements are useless for some concerns.
I used to read Audio Science Review and truly believed that Amir really knew what he writes about... But everything said there is all useless. Its all stress tests and graphs of circuits and chips. People there go by graphs, its like buying a car just by dynamometer test results, it will only tell you half the story. A great graph doesn't guarantee it sounds great.
Exactly, Mark. Nice analogy
Talking about percentages of impressions without any measurements is nonsense. These comparisons are meaningless without considering what is happening to the grounding of the entire system, voltages drops in power cables and common impedance coupling. Two of these PSUs have no mains PE, one does, but we don't know if it is connected through to its outputs.
Why is your intro so loud??
This is a very old video now and I was still learning a lot about editing back then. New videos don't have these issues. 🙂
Skip the awful music show
too much waffle need test traces otherwise too subjective takeaway from this suonds better 10 secocond video end of