Raided for the first time in BWL with darkmantle last night. Seemed to be a about the same dps as the other rogues and I’m running IEA so if I were to spec normal I would probably be a little bit ahead of them. But when we fought nef (a longer fight), even with IEA, I destroyed them all in dps.
If you're daggers and you're doing fights in 45 sec - 1 min I promise you will do more damage with IP over WF. Get a Sham with GoA in your group with a hunter and you will increase your overall raid DPS, since the Hunters are 2 AP per 1 Agil.
I see that many BiS lists include Master Dragonslayer Ring over Exalted Brood Ring. Exalted Brood ring is 24 agility and 1% hit, while MDR is 48 AP and 1% hit. With ZG buff and Kings, Exalted Ring grants 30 Agi (27.6 for Horde) which is more dps than 48 AP from MDR. Also, 30 Agi is nearly 2% dodge, which can be helpful against some cleaves/whirlwinds (Sartura for example).
yep that's definitely something to consider in the future as far as ring choices go. I'd make the brood ring as an alternate choice when I eventually make a more AQ targeted prio video
However, there is still questions about the actual proc rate of the Darkmantle set in Classic correct? Will you be testing the proc rate once you get the set?
@@jacob0246 they basically reuse proc IDs a lot in the current version of classic that is live right now. It's similar to how the 40atk bonus on rank 10 vs rank 12/13 gear is the same bonus down to the ID used, just swapped to a different piece of gear.
are you simming with garcia or bloodmoon? Just fyi always sim energy with garcia, bloodmoon tends to have issues with energy stuff. If you still run into odd results feel free to pop into our discord and we can see what's going on there.
How does a Seal Fate Dagger spec compare to combat daggers in full P5 bis? I assume it won't compare until you have Death's Sting and are wearing ACLG, but I don't know for sure.
So as a main SOF rog since P1 with 90% logs and rank 12 pvp i can give you some advice, SOF is OBV only good if you get enough crit from gear(30-40% unbuffed) so OBV in a short combat (farm runs, MC, BWL) Combat is way better because of the burst. how ever for every other fight longer SOF deal way more damage. Main Reason for that is your gameplay is way faster, exciting and your set bonus matches way better. T2.5 5er +15 damage on eviserate dont matter for combat. (T3 Set is better on SOF too) So if you play combat you get weapon expert with extra +5 on dagger and ofc the ACLG. just keep ACLG FOREVER, i would only consider dropping it for T3 naxx gloves when i already got other t3 pieces. I will do AQ progress with Combat an as soon i get the pugio (OH dagger) im at 32.5% crit unbuffed so im ready to go. PS: so basicly it means: if you start raiding with realy bad gear play combat sword, if you get ACLG and perditions blade go play dagger and last if you have full T2 (crit) you go play SOF. in a loot council the SOF rog should get the dagger before everyone other rog because combat actualy dont realy need it.
John Acosta results from PTR servers are not favourable for darkmantle. Especially for dagger rogues which I am. Since t2,5 is better anyway I’m just gonna sit this one out.
i max lvl my rogue before a week and iam so confuse about all that combinations.I got already 2x ZG 1x T1 belt and 2xShadowcraft nothing darkmantle.I dont know what need 1st. :P
in general you don't want to use blue pvp set bonus from zg onwards assuming you have p4 bis gear onwards because the shoulder slot gets used by zg 2 piece set which is overall better and other slots of blue pvp gear lose to p4 gear.
hey so I've been duo boxing tank and rogue in ubrs no luck yet 0/4. I am thinking about just doing sc boot/belt/glove/ helm. Whats the disadvantage of going this route? Is it just the few attkp? Also for the zg trinket, are u using this on the opener for most fights in aq/ bwl then swapping to hoj? I have tried vanish swapping gear and it seems to not always work. Also can you grind exalted with Cenarion circle now by turning in pages and doing bosses? Curious how long it takes if you have a static group running each day.
On the website linked in description I go through all the dps losses for each piece of gear, so you can have a look and see the differences. I'd encourage you to sim and check if you want to go an alternate route with darkmantle pieces. With zg trinket you keep it on with 2 piece (normally shoulders) from zg so that you get 20 atk power. Mid fight vanish swaps don't work in classic. Rep farm is hard beyond honored. Only the super keen will go to exalted beforw AQ20 launches. Most are stopping at honored until then.
Hey sno, great guide! This is a lot of gold and grinding to get this Darkmantle set. Do you think it’s really worth it or would you rather recommend farming bloodfang or nightslayer gear? I’m a new 60 and in my first MC and BWL raids I managed to pick up Nightslayer bracer and boots and Bloodfang gloves.
this late into it, i'd probably go 2.5 if you're in a raid guild and slowly work on darkmantle over time if you want it for your tier 3 set flexibility in p6. That said if you do have the time to farm/grind it out a full set of Darkmantle is very very good catch up gear.
You haven't talked about enchants. Would it be interesting to enchant + 1% attack speed on the helmet, hands and legs, to activate the proc more frequently?
The problem with haste enchants of low amounts (like 1% for example) is they only help when you actually gain an extra swing. Meaning in almost all cases the fights never go long enough for you to gain that extra swing, which means the haste enchant basically did nothing. It has to be a higher amount for it to really come into play to give you an extra swing, which is why most rogues don't value the 1% haste enchants.
Ravencrest's legacy still wins by a tiny amount in offhand due to the faster speed (less than 1 dps difference). That said, moving CTS to offhand by itself would be a strange move for most, as most guilds typically don't have people take both CTS and then also take AQR in AQ (i suppose it might happen in a DKP guild without proper prios in place or a pug). Unless your guild is insanely good luck and everyone who needs raid MH sword has a CTS already i suppose.
One question, The more hit I have, the more likely to hit the enemy in white hits, then, the more likely to activate the 35 restoration points, right? So is it worth trying to get close to the top of white hits?, Also, it is probably better on off-hand the enchant crusader, if i have 15 or 16% of hit?
Hit is a valuable stat regardless of darkmantle or not. With bis gear you'll end up around 18-19% hit right now. Offhand enchant I'd go 15 agi personally because proc in offhand is unreliable, but that's me personally.
P5 you can just use earthstrike instead and go full tier + 4 piece darkmantle. It's tiny bit less dps than including zg 2 piece but you'd still be fine.
By absolute chance I kept all 8/8 pieces in the bank! Just spotted on AH some bracers/belts for 10-15g each, stocking up to resell when they inflate :D
@@Michael-zi2qg yeah now prices are up from a few days ago, and every dungeon group has shadowcraft reserved ;). Belt was 80gold this morning, gloves at 350/400g. Luckily i bought all three a few weeks ago.
Just a question with the quest line for Darkmantle. Is it a requirement to have all the shadowcraft pieces prior to upgrading say the helm and chest? If I for example had every piece except the pants, would I still be able to complete Part 4 and upgrade the helm/chest?
Sno appreciate the info! Question. I recently acquired Claw of the Blake Drake. I was chatting w/ one of our sword rogues about possible spec that might be viable which includes 5 points in fists and swords. The sword spec procs MH swings. My best sword atm is Brut Blade. What are your thoughts on this?
Hey, so im new to wow and got a 57 lvl rogue now. For my pre raid bis should I farm shadowcraft set and use it. Im kinda worried about breaking the set bonus eventually and darkmantle quest chain is really long and expensive. What should I do? Thanks.
@@ClassicRoguecraft Thank you for your answer, let's say I finished darkmantle set quests and got all the set. Should I use 8/8 until I get better items in AQ or BWL?
@@kaan7369 Yes, you'd use darkmantle for a long time, it's great filler gear and even geared rogues will be keeping some darkmantle for quite awhile in AQ to focus on non armor pieces first.
shoulders 100%, then either chest or bracers is fine for the 2nd piece until you get bloodfang chest/bracers (then you'd swap in renataki's trinket to keep the 20 atk bonus).
Hey! Love the video, thanks for the information! I'm hitting R14 next week (finally), and did you have any notes on the Daggers? I notice your "r14 weapons not included". Thanks again.
for r14 weapons pretty much use those for now, they're awesome. Death sting does beat it in MH for p5 though. The plus side is you won't need offhand weapon in p5 since the r14 offhand is very similar to a pugio.
depends on spec. A lot of rogues will swap out of murder either way in AQ since it's less effective there, but imp evis or ruthlessness will likely be the 2 options for those points.
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks as a combat rogue i already have 3 pts in ruthlessness though, what would be your recommendation of spec if i have a 5/5 T2.5?
Pick your spec based on playstyle, not which spec does more dps in sims. They're close enough that rogues are free to pick either weapon spec and still do great 99 parses.
Hey Sno! Nice video, love your content. I have some questions regarding the simming methodology. What debuffs are put on the target, what buffs does the player have and what do you know what PPM the 4set has? And how does the dps scale gradually from no buffs to full buffs? Sorry for bombarding you with questions!
With simming I use standard full raid buffs + consumes in garcia's sim sheet. The set has a 1ppm to our knowledge (since it uses same id as the 35 energy proc from shadowcraft). The gain from darkmantle should be great for everything unless it's an absurdly short fight where you don't enough time to spend your base energy and cds (eg razorgore in a top guild maybe).
@@nerielgshsdh2195 instant poison beats dense, particularly with the 3 piece t2 bonus. For 5+ vs crusader, crusader wins in pve typically, but a lot of rogues still choose 5+ mh because it works better in pvp (so they take the small pve dps loss for better pvp performance)
Most of my sims are run with full buffs (including warchief), although iirc from testing no warchief didn't change much in the actual dps increase/decrease for the sets (just changed the starting dps)
@@ClassicRoguecraft except when you don't have WCB, Renataki's outperforms Earthstrike due to the slower attack speed making AP not as strong as the 60 energy. I would consider adding that to your guide, as it's important for Alliance rogues to know who can't/don't get WCB.
@Ryan it is depending on the sim settings etc. Progression wear whatever honestly, it's more about being clean than any min/maxing with your gear unless you're in a hardcore server 1st type guild
yes, assuming you go into p5 with bis gear (like DFT), your hit will still be fine after swapping. I'd recommend downloading a crit cap weakaura either way to live track your crit cap in game (one is listed in my weakaura guide in the UI page of my site).
if you get death sting it might be tad bit better, but it's absurdly rare, you're not going to be able to get death sting for all your rogues without insane luck.
I will be going seal fate once I know I can achieve 40% crit without world buffs or at least 35%+. If you're going to go Seal Fate I suggest you pick up Blade Furry
I guess it depends on the damage lost from BS to the damage gain from Evis. We won’t know till we reach that Crit mark. Also have to take in a count of how long the fights are going. In a two min fight seal fate will put perform combat. From my play testing in MC during phase 1 I was out damaging combat but once the fights got shorter the constant damage from seal fate could not out match AR/BF.
Great video. Sorry if I missed it but did you sim with Sealed Fate dagger spec? I would think a higher percentage of the damage would come from Evis so maybe 2.5 is a higher priority than 4p dark mantle?
Classic Roguecraft thank you, that sucks because some are really nice for cat dps (I'm a tank but do cat when I have to) but good because I don't have to refarm my shadowcraft pieces lol
@@kzpylj7729 As a rogue, I never liked it when fury warriors and feral druids would steal my Shadowcraft pieces in dungeon rolls. Fortunately, *most* people aren’t jerks and wouldn’t roll need if there was a rogue in the group. And of the ones who did, they simply didn’t know any better and weren’t aware of WoW etiquette.
The set is still amazing with/without a DFT. The DFT has nothing to do with darkmantle being good or not good. You'd just swap in a different trinket for the DFT slot.
It's standard pve combat daggers/swords. Nothing special with my talent setup, but I'll work on putting together some basic talent links in the discord.
haven't tested in full 8 set because it's honestly not worth using 8 set unless it's a brand new rogue. But you can test it out using garcia's sim sheet which is on the site.
Yo! Thanks for the video! Really helpful. One more thing. right now I just got maladath and I'm been using set dalrend. What will give me most dps? I got a few different set up but I dont know what is best Maladath MH+ mirah (higher stats dps) Dalrend MH+ Maladath (slower MH swing) Sword of zeal MH+ Maladath (Zeal sword proc like crazy for +10dmg.) Can you help me out? Thanks dude
Pvp gear is fairly linear. 5 piece nightslayer, max sta in other slots, keep at least 5% hit in your gearing, and the last 3 armor slots are situational/preference.
@@ClassicRoguecraft sorry what i meant was if there is any space in pve gear for a 2set bonus from pvp (maybe with zg bonus set as well if no luck with shadowcraft)
@@rockoras ah, basically the blue pvp gear doesn't fit in anymore in a bis scenario due to needing the shoulders to perform well (and zg set takes up shoulders slot). But your individual case may be different if you're not in bis gear yet (eg. missing pieces of tier 2 in key slots). The rank 12 legs are possibly the only piece able to slot in with zg gear included.
@@ClassicRoguecraft It's my alt character so i only have the zg pieces for now.. if i dont get tier 2 pieces i think i will experiment with the pvp(blue)/zg set till i can get them.. Thanks for the reply!
@@houseoffirebellytoads1439 You got a shit ton of stuff to do. Farm Nature Resistance, farm Raidmats, check stuff for NAXX, if you're not exalted with argent dawn, farm it because you need to be if you don't wanna pay a load of gold and mats for the access to naxx
Too much of a hassle for the little dmg upgrade.. It's fun to use for the occasional super parse where you get lucky with procs and get in an extra backstab or three. Otherwise it's like what not even 1k dmg on a 60 second fight for rogues on average. And if you get unlucky you will have some fights where it won't proc and you'll get pissed off hehe. Choice between bit of extra dmg on average 100rund. Or go for bf and skip the rng factor of the gear itself really.
Duzo one it’s not much effort if you just farmed proper pre BiS couple phases back. I’ve had 8/8 SC in my bank for like 6 months now. The rest is just buying mats and stuff which isn’t much.
@@kolfyr4912 the effort part was ment for the people that just found out about it, not for the people that played months ago at a time where people were constantly spamming these dungeons
For me it's not worth it. I'd rather not have to rely on procs to get my DPS. It's one of the main reasons why I stopped playing retail WoW in Legion. Everything was tied to whether or not you got lucky with procs.
it's possible (i'd have to check sims myself for such a long fight length), depending on your sim settings, but remember that at 3 min you'd get another use of your trinket because the CD would be up, which would tilt things in favour of the active trinkets again.
Heck no. I’m writing this in 2022 and still having loads of fun in WoW Classic. It’s still a vibrant community despite TBC Classic having been released and WotLK Classic looming. I liked those releases well enough back in the day, but IMHO, Blizzard had already started going down the wrong path with TBC. Im strictly a Classic Era guy now.
pve. Pvp you'd be using high sta gear mixed with nightslayer most likely, although darkmantle honestly isn't horrible in pvp (just you're missing out on the 10 energy bonus of Nightslayer 5 set).
@Max Cranston That would actually make sense. I didn't think of a guild that is mostly warriors going for those speed clears. Our guild is pretty casual so I tend to print that situation onto others' situations.
Not cool tbh, it's nowhere the same upgrade for warriors as it is for rogues, rogues need the hit much more. Unless the warriors getting it are all r14 or something you have reason to be upset
It depends on what phase of p5 and also on the sta values. If you watch the video I actually explain that dps differences with dagger rogues in particular ending up with darkmantle dps being barely ahead even vs full deathdealer. It requires practically full deathdealer to reach the dps output of darkmantle.
"Cheers in full shadowcraft set stored in bank"
Didn't know that.. sold all my shadowcraft stuff.. yikes :D nice detailed video - subbed
Go on the blizzard item restoration service, they should be on there so you can restore them and they will be sent to your mailbox
@@jamescotterill352 I sold them aswell to the vendor, but they are not in the item restoration service :(
@@steenf0rce yea item restore only works if it was somewhat recent, so if it was months ago they can't restore
I have to refarm as well 😂 being full phase 4 bis and having to farm shitty dungeons feels bad man...
Raided for the first time in BWL with darkmantle last night. Seemed to be a about the same dps as the other rogues and I’m running IEA so if I were to spec normal I would probably be a little bit ahead of them. But when we fought nef (a longer fight), even with IEA, I destroyed them all in dps.
Already feelin nostalgic again for classic lol
If you're daggers and you're doing fights in 45 sec - 1 min I promise you will do more damage with IP over WF. Get a Sham with GoA in your group with a hunter and you will increase your overall raid DPS, since the Hunters are 2 AP per 1 Agil.
why do you use gloves of enforcement over aged core leather gloves with death sting?
you don't need the extra +dagger skill anymore once you pick up death sting (which has +3 dagger skill on it already)
I see that many BiS lists include Master Dragonslayer Ring over Exalted Brood Ring. Exalted Brood ring is 24 agility and 1% hit, while MDR is 48 AP and 1% hit. With ZG buff and Kings, Exalted Ring grants 30 Agi (27.6 for Horde) which is more dps than 48 AP from MDR. Also, 30 Agi is nearly 2% dodge, which can be helpful against some cleaves/whirlwinds (Sartura for example).
yep that's definitely something to consider in the future as far as ring choices go. I'd make the brood ring as an alternate choice when I eventually make a more AQ targeted prio video
However, there is still questions about the actual proc rate of the Darkmantle set in Classic correct? Will you be testing the proc rate once you get the set?
Darkmantle set bonus uses the exact same proc ID as Shadowcraft +35 proc, so it should be the same ppm as we have for shadowcraft now.
@@ClassicRoguecraft wasnt the proc id different in vanilla, how do you know this
@@jacob0246 they basically reuse proc IDs a lot in the current version of classic that is live right now. It's similar to how the 40atk bonus on rank 10 vs rank 12/13 gear is the same bonus down to the ID used, just swapped to a different piece of gear.
@@ClassicRoguecraft cool that makes sense ty for your time
@@merlousgaming Proc rate has been tested on ptr already and it's the same as shadowcraft
I'm showing a DPS loss of ~25 for human rogues without world buffs, which will be the case for progressing guilds. This is on your spreadsheet.
are you simming with garcia or bloodmoon? Just fyi always sim energy with garcia, bloodmoon tends to have issues with energy stuff. If you still run into odd results feel free to pop into our discord and we can see what's going on there.
As a rank 13 warrior, I do enjoy keeping up to date with a mortal enemy such as rogues. 🤓
As a rogue warrior is my favorite to fight
Come join us in the Classic Roguecraft Discord, we're growing fast at over 1.5k members already! - discord.gg/T9XQJw7gJj
If you like minmax why you don't play ORC for blood fury?
Got lucky last night. First reset first c’thun kill and Deaths Sting has been acquired.
What, didn't know the rogue trinket from ZG was actually good for PvE. Guess i fucked up..
It’s great for short fights
Recent sims says Darkmantle not better, cant remember the youtuber who posted it but its out there.
He's wrong. Watch what happens when AQ logs start being filled with Darkmantle parses.
@sno you need to do 4p t0.5 + 4p T3 vs full T3 sims. I have a sneaking suspicion that 4p t0.5 +4p t3 is the play
no way. Even full t2.5 is almost equal to 4p darkmantle. t3 will sim higher for sure
@@FlyToSafety yeah i simmed full t3 vs 4p t3 + 4p t0.5 its 10dps difference ;)
hmm what about combining 4 set dark mantle, with 3 piece Stormshroud Armor? double energy proc? could it be done?
How does a Seal Fate Dagger spec compare to combat daggers in full P5 bis? I assume it won't compare until you have Death's Sting and are wearing ACLG, but I don't know for sure.
So as a main SOF rog since P1 with 90% logs and rank 12 pvp i can give you some advice, SOF is OBV only good if you get enough crit from gear(30-40% unbuffed)
so OBV in a short combat (farm runs, MC, BWL) Combat is way better because of the burst. how ever for every other fight longer SOF deal way more damage. Main Reason for that is your gameplay is way faster, exciting and your set bonus matches way better. T2.5 5er +15 damage on eviserate dont matter for combat. (T3 Set is better on SOF too)
So if you play combat you get weapon expert with extra +5 on dagger and ofc the ACLG. just keep ACLG FOREVER, i would only consider dropping it for T3 naxx gloves when i already got other t3 pieces.
I will do AQ progress with Combat an as soon i get the pugio (OH dagger) im at 32.5% crit unbuffed so im ready to go.
PS: so basicly it means: if you start raiding with realy bad gear play combat sword, if you get ACLG and perditions blade go play dagger and last if you have full T2 (crit) you go play SOF.
in a loot council the SOF rog should get the dagger before everyone other rog because combat actualy dont realy need it.
Imagine having vendored your 6/8 shadowcraft set for bankspace while not knowing about darkmantle and now having to get it again... hehe...
Try 8/8 lmao fuck me
John Acosta results from PTR servers are not favourable for darkmantle. Especially for dagger rogues which I am. Since t2,5 is better anyway I’m just gonna sit this one out.
@@Bouwtje i did this and used the item restore to get them back
i max lvl my rogue before a week and iam so confuse about all that combinations.I got already 2x ZG 1x T1 belt and 2xShadowcraft nothing darkmantle.I dont know what need 1st. :P
It’s 12-14 dps increase in combat dagger build but what about seal fate spec?
Thanks man love your guides!!!!!!
What if you got the legionnare pvp set bonus ? Boots and gloves together is 40ap ! Please help!
in general you don't want to use blue pvp set bonus from zg onwards assuming you have p4 bis gear onwards because the shoulder slot gets used by zg 2 piece set which is overall better and other slots of blue pvp gear lose to p4 gear.
Classic Roguecraft x Sno you my fucken hero
hey so I've been duo boxing tank and rogue in ubrs no luck yet 0/4. I am thinking about just doing sc boot/belt/glove/ helm. Whats the disadvantage of going this route? Is it just the few attkp? Also for the zg trinket, are u using this on the opener for most fights in aq/ bwl then swapping to hoj? I have tried vanish swapping gear and it seems to not always work. Also can you grind exalted with Cenarion circle now by turning in pages and doing bosses? Curious how long it takes if you have a static group running each day.
On the website linked in description I go through all the dps losses for each piece of gear, so you can have a look and see the differences. I'd encourage you to sim and check if you want to go an alternate route with darkmantle pieces.
With zg trinket you keep it on with 2 piece (normally shoulders) from zg so that you get 20 atk power. Mid fight vanish swaps don't work in classic.
Rep farm is hard beyond honored. Only the super keen will go to exalted beforw AQ20 launches. Most are stopping at honored until then.
Hey sno, great guide! This is a lot of gold and grinding to get this Darkmantle set. Do you think it’s really worth it or would you rather recommend farming bloodfang or nightslayer gear? I’m a new 60 and in my first MC and BWL raids I managed to pick up Nightslayer bracer and boots and Bloodfang gloves.
this late into it, i'd probably go 2.5 if you're in a raid guild and slowly work on darkmantle over time if you want it for your tier 3 set flexibility in p6. That said if you do have the time to farm/grind it out a full set of Darkmantle is very very good catch up gear.
You haven't talked about enchants. Would it be interesting to enchant + 1% attack speed on the helmet, hands and legs, to activate the proc more frequently?
The problem with haste enchants of low amounts (like 1% for example) is they only help when you actually gain an extra swing. Meaning in almost all cases the fights never go long enough for you to gain that extra swing, which means the haste enchant basically did nothing.
It has to be a higher amount for it to really come into play to give you an extra swing, which is why most rogues don't value the 1% haste enchants.
Correct me if Im wrong but im seeing that CTS is OH bis with elemental sharpening stone over Ravencrest's Legacy. For human that is.
Ravencrest's legacy still wins by a tiny amount in offhand due to the faster speed (less than 1 dps difference). That said, moving CTS to offhand by itself would be a strange move for most, as most guilds typically don't have people take both CTS and then also take AQR in AQ (i suppose it might happen in a DKP guild without proper prios in place or a pug).
Unless your guild is insanely good luck and everyone who needs raid MH sword has a CTS already i suppose.
@@ClassicRoguecraft all our warriors are rank 14.
Doing that long quest line for less than a 1dps increase seems like a waste of time if no warriors want AQR.
@@KCurtis87 yeah that's fair. if you guys have full r14 wars I could see it going that way
Good video. One quick question. Did you consier back stab skill book in AQ in this SIMS?
yep I did :)
@@ClassicRoguecraft Can I refer this video to Korean rogue community? I will translate and share it
@@wkdgnsgo sure
One question, The more hit I have, the more likely to hit the enemy in white hits, then, the more likely to activate the 35 restoration points, right? So is it worth trying to get close to the top of white hits?, Also, it is probably better on off-hand the enchant crusader, if i have 15 or 16% of hit?
Hit is a valuable stat regardless of darkmantle or not. With bis gear you'll end up around 18-19% hit right now.
Offhand enchant I'd go 15 agi personally because proc in offhand is unreliable, but that's me personally.
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks for ask!
I need the priest version of snomie
would it be worth to use R12 pants and somehow fit in darkmantle + bf chest as ally swords?
yeah r12 may be worth swapping in, you'll have to sim a different combination of darkmantle using r12 pants to check for sure, but very likely.
As a fresh 60, does it make more sense to concentrate on Darkmantle above anything else right now?
yes. Shadowcraft is a great pre bis set and darkmantle is great to fill in all your armor slots in p5.
I'm having a hard time getting zg trinket. Thinking of going sword into p5. What would u reccomend to replace the zg 2 piece
P5 you can just use earthstrike instead and go full tier + 4 piece darkmantle. It's tiny bit less dps than including zg 2 piece but you'd still be fine.
Hi bro, Really like your image, do you have a high resolution one?
By absolute chance I kept all 8/8 pieces in the bank! Just spotted on AH some bracers/belts for 10-15g each, stocking up to resell when they inflate :D
The boe pieces are like 50-150gold atm on Earthshaker EU
@@johanlahti84 200-300g on Skullflame EU
@@Michael-zi2qg yeah now prices are up from a few days ago, and every dungeon group has shadowcraft reserved ;). Belt was 80gold this morning, gloves at 350/400g. Luckily i bought all three a few weeks ago.
Just a question with the quest line for Darkmantle. Is it a requirement to have all the shadowcraft pieces prior to upgrading say the helm and chest? If I for example had every piece except the pants, would I still be able to complete Part 4 and upgrade the helm/chest?
you can't unfortunately. Quest must be done in order.
@@ClassicRoguecraft so it's a requirement to have the entire SC set :( . Thank you for the reply!
Sno appreciate the info! Question. I recently acquired Claw of the Blake Drake. I was chatting w/ one of our sword rogues about possible spec that might be viable which includes 5 points in fists and swords. The sword spec procs MH swings. My best sword atm is Brut Blade. What are your thoughts on this?
You should still go fist spec, it should be more damage gained still than sword spec in your situation
Looks like I need to get a couple of swords
Hey, so im new to wow and got a 57 lvl rogue now. For my pre raid bis should I farm shadowcraft set and use it. Im kinda worried about breaking the set bonus eventually and darkmantle quest chain is really long and expensive. What should I do? Thanks.
yes I would use shadowcraft as prebis. You must as well since you'll be doing those instances a bit anyway. You won't replace it for a long time.
@@ClassicRoguecraft Thank you for your answer, let's say I finished darkmantle set quests and got all the set. Should I use 8/8 until I get better items in AQ or BWL?
@@kaan7369 Yes, you'd use darkmantle for a long time, it's great filler gear and even geared rogues will be keeping some darkmantle for quite awhile in AQ to focus on non armor pieces first.
which 2 pcs of zg should you replace t1 for daggers? I have chest, bracers, and shoulders.
shoulders 100%, then either chest or bracers is fine for the 2nd piece until you get bloodfang chest/bracers (then you'd swap in renataki's trinket to keep the 20 atk bonus).
Hey! Love the video, thanks for the information!
I'm hitting R14 next week (finally), and did you have any notes on the Daggers? I notice your "r14 weapons not included".
Thanks again.
for r14 weapons pretty much use those for now, they're awesome. Death sting does beat it in MH for p5 though. The plus side is you won't need offhand weapon in p5 since the r14 offhand is very similar to a pugio.
hi would you respec imp eviscerate from murder , if you have 5/5 T2.5? thanks
depends on spec. A lot of rogues will swap out of murder either way in AQ since it's less effective there, but imp evis or ruthlessness will likely be the 2 options for those points.
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks as a combat rogue i already have 3 pts in ruthlessness though, what would be your recommendation of spec if i have a 5/5 T2.5?
@@jasonchen3301 Imp evis or poisons (ally) would probably be the path for sword rogues.
Amazing video thanks. What is the exact % proc rate? Do we know that?
1 ppm should be the base proc rate based off shadowcraft proc testing (blizzard uses the same proc ID for both shadowcraft and darkmantle)
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks alot!! Put your name around my server good work
Which Dps spreadsheet do you use? I've tried a couple but they don't seem to be that accurate.
garcia's is the most accurate. You can find it in the formulas page in the menu on classicroguecraft.com
Why replace Bloodfang chest and not bracers for sword rogues? (Head, bracers, gloves, boots being Darkmantle)
some darkmantle pieces have better stats than others basically, so it's not an exact 1 to 1 for all darkmantle pieces.
so dagger is better than sword? i have thunderfury and i want to collect this old qiraj blade
Pick your spec based on playstyle, not which spec does more dps in sims. They're close enough that rogues are free to pick either weapon spec and still do great 99 parses.
@@ClassicRoguecraft I love swords. Getting TF soon
Hey Sno! Nice video, love your content. I have some questions regarding the simming methodology. What debuffs are put on the target, what buffs does the player have and what do you know what PPM the 4set has? And how does the dps scale gradually from no buffs to full buffs? Sorry for bombarding you with questions!
With simming I use standard full raid buffs + consumes in garcia's sim sheet. The set has a 1ppm to our knowledge (since it uses same id as the 35 energy proc from shadowcraft). The gain from darkmantle should be great for everything unless it's an absurdly short fight where you don't enough time to spend your base energy and cds (eg razorgore in a top guild maybe).
did you SIm the shadowflame vs 3set t2 with 2x insta poison or just 1x?
both. 2x on ally and 1x on horde (since horde use windfury)
@@ClassicRoguecraft Dense sharpeing for Daggers is not up to par? what about +5wep dmg enchant MH also inferior to crusader?
@@nerielgshsdh2195 instant poison beats dense, particularly with the 3 piece t2 bonus. For 5+ vs crusader, crusader wins in pve typically, but a lot of rogues still choose 5+ mh because it works better in pvp (so they take the small pve dps loss for better pvp performance)
what about 4/8 t0.5 + stormshroud set ? I don't know proc rate but you can get 2x energy proc
generally not worth as you trade off too much for it.
When you simmed as a human rogue was this with warchiefs blessing or without?
Most of my sims are run with full buffs (including warchief), although iirc from testing no warchief didn't change much in the actual dps increase/decrease for the sets (just changed the starting dps)
@@ClassicRoguecraft Thanks
@@ClassicRoguecraft except when you don't have WCB, Renataki's outperforms Earthstrike due to the slower attack speed making AP not as strong as the 60 energy. I would consider adding that to your guide, as it's important for Alliance rogues to know who can't/don't get WCB.
@Ryan it is depending on the sim settings etc. Progression wear whatever honestly, it's more about being clean than any min/maxing with your gear unless you're in a hardcore server 1st type guild
Really love your webiste. I had a question with all the darkmantle ,will I my hit still be okay compared to my crit?
yes, assuming you go into p5 with bis gear (like DFT), your hit will still be fine after swapping. I'd recommend downloading a crit cap weakaura either way to live track your crit cap in game (one is listed in my weakaura guide in the UI page of my site).
@@ClassicRoguecraft awesome,thanks a lot your guides are on point!
so is dagger rogue better then sword in p5 for humans ? because then I will never again give them a sword instead of the furys
if you get death sting it might be tad bit better, but it's absurdly rare, you're not going to be able to get death sting for all your rogues without insane luck.
Hey thanks for the content ! I just get my Thunderfury and i wonder if its really better than my viskag maladath
Warblade of Hakkari over Brutality Blade?
yes. Warblade is a 5ish dps upgrade over BB.
HoJ or BB the better trinket you think?
HoJ for swords, BhB for daggers if not crit capped
Which program do you use to sim?
I use the garcia sim spreadsheet linked in the formulas section on classic roguecraft
Should i go seal fate daggers or combat in phase 5 if i go full 2.5 set
I will be going seal fate once I know I can achieve 40% crit without world buffs or at least 35%+. If you're going to go Seal Fate I suggest you pick up Blade Furry
Yea i was thinking about that deathdealers set bonus and imp eviscrate but yeah dont if it can beat combat
I guess it depends on the damage lost from BS to the damage gain from Evis. We won’t know till we reach that Crit mark. Also have to take in a count of how long the fights are going. In a two min fight seal fate will put perform combat. From my play testing in MC during phase 1 I was out damaging combat but once the fights got shorter the constant damage from seal fate could not out match AR/BF.
Might just stick with combat
Seal fate is more gear dependent than Combat. For myself I have 43% Crit but that’s with world buffs :/
Great video. Sorry if I missed it but did you sim with Sealed Fate dagger spec? I would think a higher percentage of the damage would come from Evis so maybe 2.5 is a higher priority than 4p dark mantle?
Sealed fate doesn't compete still. It gets a bit better as the game goes, but combat is just eternally the better spec in most situations.
Druids can get this too correct? It's not class specific? And sorry if this was mentioned
it's class specific sorry. Druids get a different tier set.
Classic Roguecraft thank you, that sucks because some are really nice for cat dps (I'm a tank but do cat when I have to) but good because I don't have to refarm my shadowcraft pieces lol
@@kzpylj7729 As a rogue, I never liked it when fury warriors and feral druids would steal my Shadowcraft pieces in dungeon rolls. Fortunately, *most* people aren’t jerks and wouldn’t roll need if there was a rogue in the group. And of the ones who did, they simply didn’t know any better and weren’t aware of WoW etiquette.
always hear it as 'dark mental'
What's up with blizzard and 1337?
Isn't that the defense of a perfect dusk enigma as well?
If so...
I mean...
You have to take in consideration that most rogues DO NOT have DFT. It's a very rare item.
The set is still amazing with/without a DFT. The DFT has nothing to do with darkmantle being good or not good. You'd just swap in a different trinket for the DFT slot.
What if you don't have DFT ?
Can you link the talent tree for this setup please?
It's standard pve combat daggers/swords. Nothing special with my talent setup, but I'll work on putting together some basic talent links in the discord.
What was the dps in full 8 set dark mantle?
haven't tested in full 8 set because it's honestly not worth using 8 set unless it's a brand new rogue. But you can test it out using garcia's sim sheet which is on the site.
Yo! Thanks for the video! Really helpful.
One more thing. right now I just got maladath and I'm been using set dalrend. What will give me most dps? I got a few different set up but I dont know what is best
Maladath MH+ mirah (higher stats dps)
Dalrend MH+ Maladath (slower MH swing)
Sword of zeal MH+ Maladath
(Zeal sword proc like crazy for +10dmg.)
Can you help me out?
Thanks dude
Mala MH with mirah offhand for sure. Then whenever you get a raid level mh you'll swap mala to offhand of course.
@@ClassicRoguecraft goddamn ty for fast reply! subbed!
@@ClassicRoguecraft one more thing. where do you calculate the dps of items? a simulater? what its called?
@@eriksos111 i use the garcia spreadsheet. It's on the classic roguecraft site under the 'formulas' section in the menu
wich two zg set items should i wear in p4 ?
shoulders + trinket is best option if we're talking about bis
@@ClassicRoguecraft thx
any comments on pvp gear for rogues?
Pvp gear is fairly linear. 5 piece nightslayer, max sta in other slots, keep at least 5% hit in your gearing, and the last 3 armor slots are situational/preference.
@@ClassicRoguecraft sorry what i meant was if there is any space in pve gear for a 2set bonus from pvp (maybe with zg bonus set as well if no luck with shadowcraft)
@@rockoras ah, basically the blue pvp gear doesn't fit in anymore in a bis scenario due to needing the shoulders to perform well (and zg set takes up shoulders slot). But your individual case may be different if you're not in bis gear yet (eg. missing pieces of tier 2 in key slots).
The rank 12 legs are possibly the only piece able to slot in with zg gear included.
@@ClassicRoguecraft It's my alt character so i only have the zg pieces for now.. if i dont get tier 2 pieces i think i will experiment with the pvp(blue)/zg set till i can get them.. Thanks for the reply!
I am rank 14 on my rogue (horde) the r13 gear is pretty nice but should i still go for darkmantle?// i am sword rogue in pve*
for sure. Darkmantle is amazing even if you have the rank gear.
Sno x Classic Roguecraft Thanks man! Now i finally have something to do again than waiting for raid days 😂
@@houseoffirebellytoads1439 You got a shit ton of stuff to do. Farm Nature Resistance, farm Raidmats, check stuff for NAXX, if you're not exalted with argent dawn, farm it because you need to be if you don't wanna pay a load of gold and mats for the access to naxx
Too much of a hassle for the little dmg upgrade.. It's fun to use for the occasional super parse where you get lucky with procs and get in an extra backstab or three. Otherwise it's like what not even 1k dmg on a 60 second fight for rogues on average. And if you get unlucky you will have some fights where it won't proc and you'll get pissed off hehe. Choice between bit of extra dmg on average 100rund. Or go for bf and skip the rng factor of the gear itself really.
I mean, the same thing can be said with crits. Some fights you won’t crit often and others you will. There will always be RNG factors.
@@kolfyr4912 crit and the effort to get to get the complete 0.5 set is completely different and i agree the effort is too much for a small reward
Duzo one it’s not much effort if you just farmed proper pre BiS couple phases back. I’ve had 8/8 SC in my bank for like 6 months now. The rest is just buying mats and stuff which isn’t much.
@@kolfyr4912 the effort part was ment for the people that just found out about it, not for the people that played months ago at a time where people were constantly spamming these dungeons
For me it's not worth it. I'd rather not have to rely on procs to get my DPS. It's one of the main reasons why I stopped playing retail WoW in Legion. Everything was tied to whether or not you got lucky with procs.
This is why my shadowcraft pieces are taking bank space for half a year
t 2.5 > darkmantle for alliance swords
Darkmantle bis on tbc till t6, nothing New for me, but for ally on classic without wf? i don't think so.
My calculations are showing HoJ being better than Earthstrike or Renataki with DM 4/8 for Swords for 3min fight length. Am I missing something?
it's possible (i'd have to check sims myself for such a long fight length), depending on your sim settings, but remember that at 3 min you'd get another use of your trinket because the CD would be up, which would tilt things in favour of the active trinkets again.
What about the +4 weapon damage + hit ring revered cenarion circle rep
4 wep dmg = 27 ap
What about this early build with DM and Veiled shadows set? www.classicwowbuilds.com/build/view/f9d1a402-e245-46b5-a30c-ce6115d878e2/aq-build/0
veiled is quite good from the early sims i tested. will likely be a very good pickup for transition gear from p4 to p5 bis.
Is it too late to start playing game now?
nah. P5 darkmantle is huge catch up gear. You could be missing all the big BWL pieces and still do great dps just by picking up darkmantle.
@@ClassicRoguecraft thanks !
Heck no. I’m writing this in 2022 and still having loads of fun in WoW Classic. It’s still a vibrant community despite TBC Classic having been released and WotLK Classic looming. I liked those releases well enough back in the day, but IMHO, Blizzard had already started going down the wrong path with TBC. Im strictly a Classic Era guy now.
Wait wait wait... So your telling me. Tier 0.5 dark mantle over tier 2 bloodfang
yep, although you preserve 3 piece BF for a little while.
Think I'll take my 8pc bonus on Bloodfang over the .5dark mantle gear.. Liked the video though
Bis in PvE or PvP?
pve. Pvp you'd be using high sta gear mixed with nightslayer most likely, although darkmantle honestly isn't horrible in pvp (just you're missing out on the 10 energy bonus of Nightslayer 5 set).
Soo basically you just use darkmantle and loot only weapons and you are fine to pass all loot ;P
A lot of rogues will do weapons then off set pieces then armor last since darkmantle is so good
dft goes to all warriors first in my guild :(
Lmao why?... DFT is just as good for rogues they're just being greedy. That really sucks :(
@Max Cranston That would actually make sense. I didn't think of a guild that is mostly warriors going for those speed clears. Our guild is pretty casual so I tend to print that situation onto others' situations.
well in our guild the first 2 went to tanks and the next 4 will go to rogues :( because ...idk it sims to just 5 dps for warriors ?
Id let rogues get dft after tanks have it tbh. At least the MT.
Not cool tbh, it's nowhere the same upgrade for warriors as it is for rogues, rogues need the hit much more. Unless the warriors getting it are all r14 or something you have reason to be upset
This is definitely not bis for phase 5 - Deathdealer > Darkmantle
It depends on what phase of p5 and also on the sta values. If you watch the video I actually explain that dps differences with dagger rogues in particular ending up with darkmantle dps being barely ahead even vs full deathdealer. It requires practically full deathdealer to reach the dps output of darkmantle.
Sim dagger rogues with NIGHTSLAYER HELM not BLOODFANG
You will lose a lot of hit going darkmantle.. not worth for swords imo
you still have plenty of hit. It's 100% worth in dps gained.
@@ClassicRoguecraft i cant wait to try it
@@TheFitDragon but in your opinion its not worth so why try it :)
im gonna try :D just got chest today
the proc rate is unknown at this point... so nobody knows if this set is worth it
Untrue. The proc ID used by blizzard is the same as shadowcraft's 4 set bonus, meaning it should have the same proc rate as shadowcraft.
im human with thunderfury. please include me in ur "BIS"
Yay, more shit to farm.
18 minute video and you couldn't just say where the fucking quest starts FML