My whole group thought we would be perfectly happy playing D&D forever until our DM decided he wanted to switch to Star Wars RPG by FFG. We were slightly skeptical about learning a new system at first but the learning has been surprisingly fun and we are all really enjoying the system six months later. It feels very fresh which is fun.
I enjoyed that too, my only complaints were that characters felt like you have to be really advanced to reliably do basic things that we saw Force users do in the movies and shows. I wish they’d have made that curb less steep, otherwise it takes lots of experience points to feel just okay at something.
@@InsightCheck Just one tiny point - the 1-20 numbered dice pretty much replace the 0-9 x2 version in the early 80s as the market demand shifted from the older historical miniature games to the new ttrpg market.
Something that I'll like to add regarding having life and not enough time to learn new systems. Modern RPG designers know this and after learning the fundamental of a system like 5e you're going to learn a new system extremely quickly, you only need the disposition, some YT videos(that are easier to absorb that a rulebook) and one person of the group to learn the specifics so the rest don't deviate so much. In my experience character creation is the longest part of any TTRPG if you already know how and RPG should work(roll dice and role play) and every game will have premade characters to ease that part.
Absolutely excellent presentation and summary of this. Easy to understand and fascinating to keep up with. I'd never considered the economic intentions of the OGL, and how that shaped the TTRPG market. I also appreciate you appreciating all these new TTRPGs as forms of art. One thing I've discovered -- and one thing that brought me to this channel -- is that I'm endlessly enamoured with game mechanics. I have been LIVING with all these youtube channels breaking down all these new TTRPGs.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! And yes, I absolutely view them as art. I’ve also loved digging into game mechanics and seeing just how different all the approaches to things can be.
It really is underrated just how brilliant the inception of the OGL was. The fact that WotC tired to veer away from it on two separate occasions is just comical.
Yeah this is fantastic. This sort of rational economic and game design analysis highlights your distinct voice and a unique insight you bring to the community.
I appreciate this well researched and balanced perspective. I certainly remember the d20 system explosion in the 2000s and watched multiple Ryan Dancy interviews last year. But it was great to see those archived documents. It's also important to not present one-sided hot takes. I'm exhausted by the "sky is falling" and "WotC is Evil" clickbait videos. Thanks again for the insightful discourse. That's also good for the hobby.
It’s truly fascinating seeing all the influences are shape the growth of the game over time. I’ve been loving digging into this stuff so I’m glad others are enjoying it too!
The controversy around the OGL stuff was what caused me to branch out and discover all the 2d20 games from Modiphius - especially the Star Trek game omg, now I'm a GM and happy about it!
Having played in the 80's, I can say from first hand that there was a lot of playing of multiple games. It was a nerdy hobby and you got into it because you liked learning new games; it is really only a factor for attracting casual players. Generally, you played Vampire the Mascarade *because* it was different from d&d. The "d20 glut" was a rush for other publishers to put their games out under the ogl, but most did not stick around because they were not popular. There was a d20 version of Call of Cthulhu and Traveller, for instance, but the current edition of both games do not use the "d20 system" because it is not what players of those games wanted. "Network Externality" is an economic term, and there are a lot of ways to get it which do not always work in practice. Ie, writing an adventure with no stats for monsters has high network externalities as you can use the adventure equally well in Call of cthulhu, traveller, pathfinder, rune Quest, d&d.... but the gm would have to to make stats and balance the adventure themselves, so it is more people can have use for it but less useful to everyone. This is why this does not generally work in table top markets. You see the "intrusive element suppression" fail in practice with the osr, dc20, mcdm, cypher system, tales of the valiant, shadows of the Demon lord, modiphius 2d20, mork borg... these are all successful game lines that buck the norm. They are not as big, sure, but they have not been around for 50 years. They have their own groups and are able to sustain a game line; the aborent creates its own identity and it becomes its own thing just like there is a reason to buy a Kia over a Ford or a Honda and vice versa.
TSR also had the license for Marvel in the ‘80’s for TTRPG space. The entire game system ran percentile dice. Just two 10 sided dice was all you needed and the success/fail tables. It was a great game!
Youve been a great inspration and resource around ttrpgs and dnd. Youve inspired me to start making videos and youve helped with finding information on ttrpgs as im making my own game. Thanks a lot youre really apreciated and loved by us!
Great video. Very different, very informative! I didn't know all the history. Thanks for doing this and keep up the great work! Also, love your collaborations with Colby/D4, Dungeon Dudes, Treantmonk, etc. Y'all are awesome! Especially big thanks for being honest, fair, and unapologetically pro DnD. It's a great game!
This might be your best video yet! I knew bits and pieces of some of this, but having it all laid out this way is really, really great. Thank you for all the hard work!
There's no such thing as too many TTRPGs! I'm currently working on my own TTRPG system. Once I get it to a Playtestable state, I will be pushing for it to be known.
DC20 is the system I'm most excited for these days, and the creator has explicitly stated that he changed the project from a 5e "homebrew/alternate rules book" to its own system, because of the OGL scandal 😝
Good content. I remember the release of 3e and OGL & d20 STL. Ryan Dancey really had to talk fast to convince corporate to go with the OGL. There were successes and failures here. The D20 system license did not do what they thought it would do; i.e. offload the less profitable 'adventure module' and other products to third parties while they concentrated on the big money makers. There was a glut of d20 product in the first few years, of widely varying quality. Then there was a market adjustment and things evened out.
Loving this type of content, I am here for it. One thing I'd like to point out is that Kickstarter sales (or sales in general) don't necessarily translate to people playing the game. From my experience, I have friends who back TTRPG Kickstarters but rarely play them because their friends prefer sticking to the games they already know. My guess is many people buy TTRPGs out of wishful thinking, which is a shame.
Personally, I like the idea of having all of these systems. I don't think Daggerheart is for me. The emphasis isn't really what I'm looking for in a game I play. Tales of the Valiant doesn't seem like it's different enough to have any real value over the behemoth D&D. It might have been a good idea if the OGL weren't moved to Creative Commons, but after that happened, it became moot. DC20 and Pathfinder I've found overly complicated--and I think MCDM seems like it would be as well, but in a different way. Shadowdark is the one I've really liked so far. It might be TOO simple, but that remains to be seen.
I love DC20. It was marketed as a simpler version of D&D and it technically is. But I fear it might be cumbersome in the future. I do love that it's fun from lvl 1 though. And I adore the direction it takes in terms of character design. Because when you're playing with would-be "adventures" who knows nothing of the system, I believe that's what gives the best impression. You can play an entire 1/2-month long module and have a hell of a time. THAT'S what I'm looking for. I'm interested in Shadowdark too. But honestly? I'm just going to start calling them all D&D. Because that's what they are. Different versions of D&D
Ah... the joys of decipher AD&D rules and prose. I have always been one of those folks willing to try a new game system and I always try to learn the rules within a couple of game sessions. Those days helped develop game design chops for GenX who you might notice are now often the sclerotic outliers complaining whenever there is any change or refinement of the older systems. It is easier for people to think in percentages when trying to abstract. It's only due to the 5 decades of exposure to using dice as a mechanic to resolve problems and overcome obstacles to success have people been able to abstract even further. Percentages and odds are concepts that come pretty easily to most folks (they're easy to physically demonstrate) and I know I can manipulate those numbers in my head easier than the simple arithmetic required for 3.X editions.
I mean, sure, a non zero amount of people played different games. It’s also possible that you may have had a particularly adventurous group. But, it’s pretty well documented that there wasn’t a whole lot of overlap at the time.
Wow, I forgot how overtly monopolistic Ryan was back int he day - oh god, the flame wars, the mess and it lingers to this day vis-a-vis WotC vs content creators.
One thing that parallels the story of 1d20 was the evolution of game design. Back in the day, if a ttrpg system had a different die roll/resolution system, it was because they wanted one. Familiarity with probability math and the balance of probability-driven play vs narrative-driven play was not often present. Now, when a game comes out, in part because of the 1d20 design, the mechanics and design of a game is more actively thought about - this allows for the emergence of similar meta-ttrpg mechanics, things like Powered by the Apocalypse, the improved and streamlined die pool systems of World of Darkness and Shadowrun, even a re-engineering of 0-99 percentile tables. When the market has games where the mechanics have been studied, tested and thought about, if you pick a method of determining success or failure on a whim without looking at how it worked and how it would work with the kind of game you intend to be played with your system, it shows. And your success will be impacted by that choice.
Yes small no talent creators like Monte Cook. What was that he's one of the brains behind 3rd edition? Loads of these "small no talent creators" have worked for WOTC.
I respectfully disagree. The quality of the games matters and it matters a lot. There simply are too many "rules light" half assed games, and that kind of muddies the water and makes it harder to find quality games. I've bought *looks at shelf* 8 different systems in the past year and a half, and downloaded pdf's for another 3.l Of them, icrpg, crown and skull and chaosium's basic roleplaying are the only three that feel like complete games worth running. Even games like lancer, which show promise, are just too damned lacking in one aspect of play or not. Now 3 out of 11 isn't HORRIBLE, but less than 1 in 3 isn't exactly confidence building numbers when a lot of them are in the $45-65 range and I still have to pay for rent and food, and my job isn't one that allows me to write them off as a business expense.
I do think it was a mistake for alot of these people to splinter the community and try to capitalize on OGL incident by creating their own systems. I do believe that competition is good, but it has to be real focused competition. More like Coke and Pepsi in the 2000s. All these people should've teamed up instead of going into business for themselves. DC 20 should've teamed up with Daggerheart, MCDM should've combined with Tales of the Valiant. Or other combinations of these examples. Forming a big team would've made these stronger competition and maybe one would actually be able to truly challenge D&D in a few years. Instead I see most of these new systems dying out in a few years or just remaing a small niche project that doesn't have major traction. These kickstarters might seem big, but it isn’t real money. It isn’t real competition and I don't see people's attention spans supporting them forever. Long story short, I just believe that if more of them worked together they could be better.
There probably is an element of truth to this. If some groups did work together there’s not an unreasonable chance that that they could have performed better. It is worth noting that the kickstarter money is very much real money. It’s already been paid out to the creators. How much of it will translate to sustained interest is anyone’s guess though.
I don't think a ttrpg needs to be able to challenge dnd in terms of scale to be worth pursuing. From a design perspective, these different teams getting together to produce their ttrpgs would have watered down their individual visions, leading to conflicting goals and "design by committee."
@matthewparker9276 I'm not saying they all need to be major contenders. I would just like one big one so it doesn't functionally feel like a monopoly. Right now it WOTC 100 space bars Pathfinder 10 more spaces Everyone else
I agree in the sense that these ttrpgs are being treated as "dnd killers". Like dnd has been around for 50 years, it is not going away any time soon and none of these groups or ttrpgs will be the reason why. That being said, I think new ttrpgs are always welcome and that these new ones deserve to be treated as more than just "dnd but better" because ultimately that title doesn't matter to anyone who isn't already playing more than just dnd. They will go so much farther if they aren't trying to ride the "wotc is evil, ogl bad" train that is ultimately losing steam. People thought wotc would commit to the ogl bs, they didn't and now a lot of promises have to be kept. Spite is not as good of a motivator as passion, and time will tell how many of these new projects are made of genuine passion for the hobby.
I really dislike the whole rhetoric of “splintering the community”. You can play more than 1 TTRPG in your life. In fact everyone can. Yeah buying all of the books at once is crazy expensive, but splitting among groups and spreading purchases over time is pretty normal in general. And doing one shots or mini-campaigns of games besides the group favorite can help keep things fun and interesting.
I thought the OGL scandal was the perfect time to consolidate all the various games into another RPG. We already had a plethora of games to choose from. There was no need to add more, niche games to the pile. What we needed was another option, another game system that could challenge WotC's 90% market share. I hoped MCDM, Critical Role, Kobold Press, et al, would come together and create a new system for all companies to adopt. Had they done so, we likely would have a very different landscape in the industry today - probably one where WotC doesn't have such a dominant role. Instead, the most prominent creators all decided to go their separate ways, leaving WotC to retain what is, by far, the largest slice of the pie. That's not good for the gaming community. In fact, I remember Matt Coleville specifically saying he thought the best thing for the RPG industry would be for a multitude of games to arise in the wake of the OGL debacle. I thought to myself, "That's what have now. How will more game systems be better?" And I think we can all see at the moment, not much has changed. There is still no system capable of challenging D&D for dominance. Let's hope the corporate idiots making decisions at Hasbro don't decide to attempt to strangle the industry again.
And that's why we need communism, folks. Sure, it would solve a lot of more important problems, but it would also fix gaming. Intellectual Property rights are a cancer on human ingenuity. Also, I would suggest not adjusting those Bonus Action spell casting rules because they actually didn't retool Quicken Spell 2024 like you said - its the same as 2014. If you give players the ability to cast a Bonus Action and a leveled spell on their turn, you ARE authorizing my Sorcerers to cast double fireballs and other insane stuff. Id be real careful about any homebrew of the rules. DMs are good at coming up with stories and being creative narritively, they often make poor game designers. That's the facts. 😊😂
i very much disagree with this analays... its seems like a end result working backwards kinda deal so its literally making up reasons to justify end state. texmp the value of the OGL is highly over rated compared to accessablilty of the game in cultural site guise, the average player doesn't engage with any OGL-related content other than obvoiuslty the base rules of the game. the OGL is basically only known because of the scandal as AND I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGHT all PNP rtg basically run a OGL style user policy its actually only WotC that recently changed this relationship between content makers and the end product. the whole vid comes across as cart before the horse, a attempt at finding patterns or trends one find personally attractive without empirical partiality.
I mean… sure? I’m not really sure I understand how you arrived at this conclusion though other than by just saying it. Everything I presented was shown with quotes and/or historical context. You don’t need to agree with anything I said if you don’t want to, that’s totally fine. Also, in your disagreement you kind of underscored my point. The fact that most people haven’t heard of the OGL or engaged in OGL content is pretty much exactly the goal here. Because what it meant was that pretty much the only game you ever heard about was D&D, even if you weren’t engaging with that content. I’m not even trying to push a narrative lol, this is just a recounting of events in chronological order.
@@InsightCheck 2 things.... 1 you have made a essay with a conclusion before the hypothesis.... You are asserted the OGL relevance then attempted to find quotes to support it...this ain't how you write essays, it's how you write opinions. 2nd why would the OGL not being relevant make it super relevant?....or are you still missing that it's not unique....that the whole hypothesis you have relays on the conclusion being the OGL is somehow the holy grail here...and not idk the fact that dnds cultural impact is massive, that it's been the original pnp game for most and as such referenced in Western media for decades....not it's timing of 5e with the generational change in content consumption or any other variables ....and you come to the conclusion it's the OGL.... something that DND wasn't first with, wasn't alone with and was far more restrictive than others with.... Like you can lol all you want....but really....lol? I expected to be ignored if you didn't agree with my critic, rather than to have it attempted at ridicule.
From someone who was there during the d20 boom. Yes, the OGL was a big deal, and yes it changed the TTRPG landscape. It’s easy to say “according to my understanding of copyright law the OGL is unnecessary”, but the safe harbor it created allowed a lot of folks to invest money into products without a fear of getting a cease-and-desist that would require destroying paid-for product (remember very few PDFs and no Print on Demand then).
@@jacobrodgers7743 you do realize the OGL was made in the 2000 right the PDF is from the 90s and like you can distribute pdfs? I know Somone may think their age matters here but when games like dragons and demons a bunch of other companies like fria ligan, white wolf, paizo to name a few has a different story to tell regarding this... I trust them a bit more about legal framework work regarding copyright in RPGs than people who think a share alike and derivative work protection constitute charitable safety for creators, Like I lived that time too and I can tell you that unless you only do your research very spotty you can't get to that conclusion.
@@sirderik I remember the print shop I was working at when I learned about this new-dangled "PDF" thing that would replace EPS files. The distribution network wasn't there in 2000 however, not like today. I guess I don't understand your objection. These things happened. WotC released the OGL, the SRD, the d20 license, etc. That is a fact. Publishers made use of it and produced products. That is a fact. What is contentious about that?
My whole group thought we would be perfectly happy playing D&D forever until our DM decided he wanted to switch to Star Wars RPG by FFG. We were slightly skeptical about learning a new system at first but the learning has been surprisingly fun and we are all really enjoying the system six months later. It feels very fresh which is fun.
I enjoyed that too, my only complaints were that characters felt like you have to be really advanced to reliably do basic things that we saw Force users do in the movies and shows. I wish they’d have made that curb less steep, otherwise it takes lots of experience points to feel just okay at something.
Really cool video and topic! If D&D hadn't fumbled that OGL they would be in a much stronger position right now
Yeah… the whole situation was a brutally short sighted one. It did not help them at all…
so, TLDR:
One Dice to rule them all, One Dice to find them,
One Dice to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them
Really enjoyed this deep dive! Fantastic work, cheers!
Thank you so much! I’m really glad you enjoyed it! It was a lot of work to make but also really fun :)
@@InsightCheck Just one tiny point - the 1-20 numbered dice pretty much replace the 0-9 x2 version in the early 80s as the market demand shifted from the older historical miniature games to the new ttrpg market.
Something that I'll like to add regarding having life and not enough time to learn new systems.
Modern RPG designers know this and after learning the fundamental of a system like 5e you're going to learn a new system extremely quickly, you only need the disposition, some YT videos(that are easier to absorb that a rulebook) and one person of the group to learn the specifics so the rest don't deviate so much.
In my experience character creation is the longest part of any TTRPG if you already know how and RPG should work(roll dice and role play) and every game will have premade characters to ease that part.
Absolutely excellent presentation and summary of this. Easy to understand and fascinating to keep up with. I'd never considered the economic intentions of the OGL, and how that shaped the TTRPG market. I also appreciate you appreciating all these new TTRPGs as forms of art. One thing I've discovered -- and one thing that brought me to this channel -- is that I'm endlessly enamoured with game mechanics. I have been LIVING with all these youtube channels breaking down all these new TTRPGs.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! And yes, I absolutely view them as art. I’ve also loved digging into game mechanics and seeing just how different all the approaches to things can be.
It really is underrated just how brilliant the inception of the OGL was. The fact that WotC tired to veer away from it on two separate occasions is just comical.
Yeah this is fantastic.
This sort of rational economic and game design analysis highlights your distinct voice and a unique insight you bring to the community.
You just made my month :)
Thank you so much for this comment, you have no idea how much it means to me!
I appreciate this well researched and balanced perspective. I certainly remember the d20 system explosion in the 2000s and watched multiple Ryan Dancy interviews last year. But it was great to see those archived documents.
It's also important to not present one-sided hot takes. I'm exhausted by the "sky is falling" and "WotC is Evil" clickbait videos. Thanks again for the insightful discourse. That's also good for the hobby.
Really loving the evolution in game mecanics its funny too think of both how mecanics changed over time and how they are also a product of their time
It’s truly fascinating seeing all the influences are shape the growth of the game over time. I’ve been loving digging into this stuff so I’m glad others are enjoying it too!
The controversy around the OGL stuff was what caused me to branch out and discover all the 2d20 games from Modiphius - especially the Star Trek game omg, now I'm a GM and happy about it!
Having played in the 80's, I can say from first hand that there was a lot of playing of multiple games. It was a nerdy hobby and you got into it because you liked learning new games; it is really only a factor for attracting casual players. Generally, you played Vampire the Mascarade *because* it was different from d&d. The "d20 glut" was a rush for other publishers to put their games out under the ogl, but most did not stick around because they were not popular. There was a d20 version of Call of Cthulhu and Traveller, for instance, but the current edition of both games do not use the "d20 system" because it is not what players of those games wanted.
"Network Externality" is an economic term, and there are a lot of ways to get it which do not always work in practice. Ie, writing an adventure with no stats for monsters has high network externalities as you can use the adventure equally well in Call of cthulhu, traveller, pathfinder, rune Quest, d&d.... but the gm would have to to make stats and balance the adventure themselves, so it is more people can have use for it but less useful to everyone. This is why this does not generally work in table top markets.
You see the "intrusive element suppression" fail in practice with the osr, dc20, mcdm, cypher system, tales of the valiant, shadows of the Demon lord, modiphius 2d20, mork borg... these are all successful game lines that buck the norm. They are not as big, sure, but they have not been around for 50 years. They have their own groups and are able to sustain a game line; the aborent creates its own identity and it becomes its own thing just like there is a reason to buy a Kia over a Ford or a Honda and vice versa.
TSR also had the license for Marvel in the ‘80’s for TTRPG space. The entire game system ran percentile dice. Just two 10 sided dice was all you needed and the success/fail tables. It was a great game!
Youve been a great inspration and resource around ttrpgs and dnd. Youve inspired me to start making videos and youve helped with finding information on ttrpgs as im making my own game. Thanks a lot youre really apreciated and loved by us!
Thanks so much for this awesome comment :)
You’ve got a new subscriber too! I enjoyed your video about the character sheet!
Great video. Very different, very informative! I didn't know all the history. Thanks for doing this and keep up the great work! Also, love your collaborations with Colby/D4, Dungeon Dudes, Treantmonk, etc. Y'all are awesome! Especially big thanks for being honest, fair, and unapologetically pro DnD. It's a great game!
I am very excited for dc20. If you haven't checked it out, the alpha 0.8 rules are out right now
Already preparing videos about it! :)
This might be your best video yet! I knew bits and pieces of some of this, but having it all laid out this way is really, really great. Thank you for all the hard work!
There's no such thing as too many TTRPGs! I'm currently working on my own TTRPG system. Once I get it to a Playtestable state, I will be pushing for it to be known.
DC20 is the system I'm most excited for these days, and the creator has explicitly stated that he changed the project from a 5e "homebrew/alternate rules book" to its own system, because of the OGL scandal 😝
Congrats on the law degree
Hahaha thanks :P
Good content. I remember the release of 3e and OGL & d20 STL. Ryan Dancey really had to talk fast to convince corporate to go with the OGL. There were successes and failures here. The D20 system license did not do what they thought it would do; i.e. offload the less profitable 'adventure module' and other products to third parties while they concentrated on the big money makers. There was a glut of d20 product in the first few years, of widely varying quality. Then there was a market adjustment and things evened out.
Super interesting video!
You’ve really been killing it with great videos lately!
Thank you so much for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it :)
Loving this type of content, I am here for it. One thing I'd like to point out is that Kickstarter sales (or sales in general) don't necessarily translate to people playing the game. From my experience, I have friends who back TTRPG Kickstarters but rarely play them because their friends prefer sticking to the games they already know. My guess is many people buy TTRPGs out of wishful thinking, which is a shame.
Hey thanks! I’m glad :)
And yeah, there’s an element of truth to this. But it’s kind of the only metric we have to go on!
Well done video, and solid break down of the OGL.
Thank you so much, I’m really proud of this video. On a personal level( it’s probably my favourite one I’ve made :)
Great video, learned a lot about the history of TTRPGs ^^
Nice breakdown of the history!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it :)
Imma just call them all D&D. Take Matt Colville's advice. Do what you want to do and use what system suits you best.
Amazing work. Very fascinating, thanks!
This is in your TOP 3 best videos. ❤
That really means a lot thank you so much! I spent a lot of time working on this one :)
Personally, I like the idea of having all of these systems. I don't think Daggerheart is for me. The emphasis isn't really what I'm looking for in a game I play. Tales of the Valiant doesn't seem like it's different enough to have any real value over the behemoth D&D. It might have been a good idea if the OGL weren't moved to Creative Commons, but after that happened, it became moot. DC20 and Pathfinder I've found overly complicated--and I think MCDM seems like it would be as well, but in a different way. Shadowdark is the one I've really liked so far. It might be TOO simple, but that remains to be seen.
I love DC20. It was marketed as a simpler version of D&D and it technically is. But I fear it might be cumbersome in the future. I do love that it's fun from lvl 1 though.
And I adore the direction it takes in terms of character design. Because when you're playing with would-be "adventures" who knows nothing of the system, I believe that's what gives the best impression. You can play an entire 1/2-month long module and have a hell of a time. THAT'S what I'm looking for.
I'm interested in Shadowdark too. But honestly? I'm just going to start calling them all D&D. Because that's what they are. Different versions of D&D
Great video as always!
Just for the algorithm, but hey, really good video. I really enjoyed it. Good job.
Ah... the joys of decipher AD&D rules and prose. I have always been one of those folks willing to try a new game system and I always try to learn the rules within a couple of game sessions. Those days helped develop game design chops for GenX who you might notice are now often the sclerotic outliers complaining whenever there is any change or refinement of the older systems.
It is easier for people to think in percentages when trying to abstract. It's only due to the 5 decades of exposure to using dice as a mechanic to resolve problems and overcome obstacles to success have people been able to abstract even further. Percentages and odds are concepts that come pretty easily to most folks (they're easy to physically demonstrate) and I know I can manipulate those numbers in my head easier than the simple arithmetic required for 3.X editions.
"Both people watching this" xD
Don't sell yourself short!
I like Hero System.
Thank you for this cool video
So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Great video. Open source FTW!
First? *Cringe that I actually did that...*
It's ok to be cringe, as long as you're happy
Hahaha thanks for the engagement anyway! :)
No, there was tons of overlap in players. Everybody played all kinds of games in the 80s and 90s.
I mean, sure, a non zero amount of people played different games. It’s also possible that you may have had a particularly adventurous group. But, it’s pretty well documented that there wasn’t a whole lot of overlap at the time.
I find it ironic that many DnD players feel that learning a new system is hard. Many modern systems are much simpler than 5e.
Wow, I forgot how overtly monopolistic Ryan was back int he day - oh god, the flame wars, the mess and it lingers to this day vis-a-vis WotC vs content creators.
One thing that parallels the story of 1d20 was the evolution of game design. Back in the day, if a ttrpg system had a different die roll/resolution system, it was because they wanted one. Familiarity with probability math and the balance of probability-driven play vs narrative-driven play was not often present. Now, when a game comes out, in part because of the 1d20 design, the mechanics and design of a game is more actively thought about - this allows for the emergence of similar meta-ttrpg mechanics, things like Powered by the Apocalypse, the improved and streamlined die pool systems of World of Darkness and Shadowrun, even a re-engineering of 0-99 percentile tables.
When the market has games where the mechanics have been studied, tested and thought about, if you pick a method of determining success or failure on a whim without looking at how it worked and how it would work with the kind of game you intend to be played with your system, it shows. And your success will be impacted by that choice.
Yes small no talent creators like Monte Cook. What was that he's one of the brains behind 3rd edition?
Loads of these "small no talent creators" have worked for WOTC.
lol yup. It’s wild some of the gate keeping some people do.
Tried DC20. Didnt like it.
To each their own! That’s kind of the beauty of it all!
I respectfully disagree. The quality of the games matters and it matters a lot.
There simply are too many "rules light" half assed games, and that kind of muddies the water and makes it harder to find quality games.
I've bought *looks at shelf* 8 different systems in the past year and a half, and downloaded pdf's for another 3.l
Of them, icrpg, crown and skull and chaosium's basic roleplaying are the only three that feel like complete games worth running.
Even games like lancer, which show promise, are just too damned lacking in one aspect of play or not.
Now 3 out of 11 isn't HORRIBLE, but less than 1 in 3 isn't exactly confidence building numbers when a lot of them are in the $45-65 range and I still have to pay for rent and food, and my job isn't one that allows me to write them off as a business expense.
I do think it was a mistake for alot of these people to splinter the community and try to capitalize on OGL incident by creating their own systems. I do believe that competition is good, but it has to be real focused competition. More like Coke and Pepsi in the 2000s. All these people should've teamed up instead of going into business for themselves. DC 20 should've teamed up with Daggerheart, MCDM should've combined with Tales of the Valiant. Or other combinations of these examples. Forming a big team would've made these stronger competition and maybe one would actually be able to truly challenge D&D in a few years. Instead I see most of these new systems dying out in a few years or just remaing a small niche project that doesn't have major traction. These kickstarters might seem big, but it isn’t real money. It isn’t real competition and I don't see people's attention spans supporting them forever. Long story short, I just believe that if more of them worked together they could be better.
There probably is an element of truth to this. If some groups did work together there’s not an unreasonable chance that that they could have performed better. It is worth noting that the kickstarter money is very much real money. It’s already been paid out to the creators. How much of it will translate to sustained interest is anyone’s guess though.
I don't think a ttrpg needs to be able to challenge dnd in terms of scale to be worth pursuing. From a design perspective, these different teams getting together to produce their ttrpgs would have watered down their individual visions, leading to conflicting goals and "design by committee."
@matthewparker9276 I'm not saying they all need to be major contenders. I would just like one big one so it doesn't functionally feel like a monopoly.
Right now it WOTC
100 space bars
Pathfinder
10 more spaces
Everyone else
I agree in the sense that these ttrpgs are being treated as "dnd killers". Like dnd has been around for 50 years, it is not going away any time soon and none of these groups or ttrpgs will be the reason why. That being said, I think new ttrpgs are always welcome and that these new ones deserve to be treated as more than just "dnd but better" because ultimately that title doesn't matter to anyone who isn't already playing more than just dnd.
They will go so much farther if they aren't trying to ride the "wotc is evil, ogl bad" train that is ultimately losing steam. People thought wotc would commit to the ogl bs, they didn't and now a lot of promises have to be kept. Spite is not as good of a motivator as passion, and time will tell how many of these new projects are made of genuine passion for the hobby.
I really dislike the whole rhetoric of “splintering the community”. You can play more than 1 TTRPG in your life. In fact everyone can. Yeah buying all of the books at once is crazy expensive, but splitting among groups and spreading purchases over time is pretty normal in general. And doing one shots or mini-campaigns of games besides the group favorite can help keep things fun and interesting.
I thought the OGL scandal was the perfect time to consolidate all the various games into another RPG. We already had a plethora of games to choose from. There was no need to add more, niche games to the pile. What we needed was another option, another game system that could challenge WotC's 90% market share. I hoped MCDM, Critical Role, Kobold Press, et al, would come together and create a new system for all companies to adopt. Had they done so, we likely would have a very different landscape in the industry today - probably one where WotC doesn't have such a dominant role. Instead, the most prominent creators all decided to go their separate ways, leaving WotC to retain what is, by far, the largest slice of the pie. That's not good for the gaming community. In fact, I remember Matt Coleville specifically saying he thought the best thing for the RPG industry would be for a multitude of games to arise in the wake of the OGL debacle. I thought to myself, "That's what have now. How will more game systems be better?" And I think we can all see at the moment, not much has changed. There is still no system capable of challenging D&D for dominance. Let's hope the corporate idiots making decisions at Hasbro don't decide to attempt to strangle the industry again.
And that's why we need communism, folks. Sure, it would solve a lot of more important problems, but it would also fix gaming. Intellectual Property rights are a cancer on human ingenuity.
Also, I would suggest not adjusting those Bonus Action spell casting rules because they actually didn't retool Quicken Spell 2024 like you said - its the same as 2014.
If you give players the ability to cast a Bonus Action and a leveled spell on their turn, you ARE authorizing my Sorcerers to cast double fireballs and other insane stuff. Id be real careful about any homebrew of the rules. DMs are good at coming up with stories and being creative narritively, they often make poor game designers. That's the facts. 😊😂
Interesting how you attribute this to open gaming and it the fact that those other games are just shitty games.
i very much disagree with this analays... its seems like a end result working backwards kinda deal so its literally making up reasons to justify end state. texmp the value of the OGL is highly over rated compared to accessablilty of the game in cultural site guise, the average player doesn't engage with any OGL-related content other than obvoiuslty the base rules of the game. the OGL is basically only known because of the scandal as AND I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGHT all PNP rtg basically run a OGL style user policy its actually only WotC that recently changed this relationship between content makers and the end product.
the whole vid comes across as cart before the horse, a attempt at finding patterns or trends one find personally attractive without empirical partiality.
I mean… sure? I’m not really sure I understand how you arrived at this conclusion though other than by just saying it. Everything I presented was shown with quotes and/or historical context. You don’t need to agree with anything I said if you don’t want to, that’s totally fine. Also, in your disagreement you kind of underscored my point. The fact that most people haven’t heard of the OGL or engaged in OGL content is pretty much exactly the goal here. Because what it meant was that pretty much the only game you ever heard about was D&D, even if you weren’t engaging with that content.
I’m not even trying to push a narrative lol, this is just a recounting of events in chronological order.
@@InsightCheck 2 things.... 1 you have made a essay with a conclusion before the hypothesis.... You are asserted the OGL relevance then attempted to find quotes to support it...this ain't how you write essays, it's how you write opinions.
2nd why would the OGL not being relevant make it super relevant?....or are you still missing that it's not unique....that the whole hypothesis you have relays on the conclusion being the OGL is somehow the holy grail here...and not idk the fact that dnds cultural impact is massive, that it's been the original pnp game for most and as such referenced in Western media for decades....not it's timing of 5e with the generational change in content consumption or any other variables ....and you come to the conclusion it's the OGL.... something that DND wasn't first with, wasn't alone with and was far more restrictive than others with.... Like you can lol all you want....but really....lol? I expected to be ignored if you didn't agree with my critic, rather than to have it attempted at ridicule.
From someone who was there during the d20 boom. Yes, the OGL was a big deal, and yes it changed the TTRPG landscape. It’s easy to say “according to my understanding of copyright law the OGL is unnecessary”, but the safe harbor it created allowed a lot of folks to invest money into products without a fear of getting a cease-and-desist that would require destroying paid-for product (remember very few PDFs and no Print on Demand then).
@@jacobrodgers7743 you do realize the OGL was made in the 2000 right the PDF is from the 90s and like you can distribute pdfs? I know Somone may think their age matters here but when games like dragons and demons a bunch of other companies like fria ligan, white wolf, paizo to name a few has a different story to tell regarding this... I trust them a bit more about legal framework work regarding copyright in RPGs than people who think a share alike and derivative work protection constitute charitable safety for creators, Like I lived that time too and I can tell you that unless you only do your research very spotty you can't get to that conclusion.
@@sirderik I remember the print shop I was working at when I learned about this new-dangled "PDF" thing that would replace EPS files. The distribution network wasn't there in 2000 however, not like today.
I guess I don't understand your objection. These things happened.
WotC released the OGL, the SRD, the d20 license, etc. That is a fact.
Publishers made use of it and produced products. That is a fact.
What is contentious about that?