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In 1999 I was a 20 year old college student studying media. For me the resounding memory was that in my lifetime to date this was only the 3rd global news story in my memory and was not only on the front page of every newspaper but also all over the new medium of ‘the internet’. Prior to this we had Live Aid and the tragic death of Princess Diana, but this story was up there with both of these 🙏🏻
The problem with the “we don’t know” view and we need more evidence approach is that it downplays the evidence we have. The people who hold the evidence have decided they will hang onto it and at the same time conclude the evidence is insufficient to make conclusions. But unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. Painstaking forensic examination of the existing evidence by experts might yield new clues that aren’t necessarily obvious to people trained mainly in mountain climbing. We have conflicting testimonies of what was found in 1999, one or two oxygen bottles, whether they had air in them or didn’t, the watch which had hands but now doesn’t, the altimeter which might yield clues, whether the rope around Mallory was cut or snapped, was there bruising from the rope or not. I could go on. This is important stuff and establishing the facts can help build a picture. Yes we may need more evidence but that is not a reason not to treat the evidence we have properly and establish what is factual and what is not.
The desire is probably there but we all have to remember that his remains are at 27000 feet and frozen to the ground. Just getting to the body would likely take months of preparation and then you are still relying on weather and plain good luck. Just my perspective
Quite correct and concise. Without questions, no amount of NEW DATA can solve this. However, if we apply NEW QUESTIONS of the data we have, then a beyond reasonable doubt circumstantial case is attainable. In archaeology you learn that just digging up more ancient trash isn’t going to solve anything. We learn by questioning, not digging.
You brought up a great point regarding that none of the people in the 1999 Expedition were trained in areas such as archaeology or even how to “properly” search or even deal with a body that had been on the mountain for so long. I’ll be honest here… I personally thought that the handling of the body might have been unprofessional. But, the reality is that’s because technically it was “unprofessional”. I think people need to remember that his body would have essentially been completely frozen to the mountain and not simply laying out like a person who had just fallen down. On top of this, the entire search team would have been wearing bulky winter clothing, would have been fatigued, working at extreme altitude, and all of this is going down while you’re not only at one of the most dangerous places on the planet, you were also off the main “beaten path”. Considering all that was found, new information gained from your discovery in 1999, and even the resulting new public interest in the Mallory/Irvine story, I cannot see any conclusion other than your discovery of Mallory was anything but a complete success. I confess that it is remarkably easy to Monday Morning Quarterback how the discovery of Mallory was handled while sitting in the comfort of a recliner in nice warm living room. I suppose if anyone would like to tell everyone exactly how this sort of stuff is handled, then they are free to come up with a solid plan, find and fund their way to Everest, climb the mountain, find Irvine, and do everything better. Myself, I will withhold any and all judgements from this point forward since I realize and admit that I am not prepared, nor educated enough to do any better job of such a monumental task myself.
Thank you, your insights are very much appreciated. One thing to consider is the criticism that someone should have put together a team of 'trained' professionals. Perhaps that's true. Who is to say that GLM ever would have been found? Without the discovery in 1999 none of this would be taking place....the discovery happened in great measure to the exceptional research of Jochen Hemmleb and the random sheer luck of Conrad straying below the established search area. Thanks so much for watching, I truly appreciate it and do appreciate your comment.
Saw the 10 minute clip of the 1999 exhibition and have been completely obsessed with this story/mystery of Mallory and Irvine ever since. Truly a blessing Thom is here on UA-cam talking about it and teaching us in real time. Story feels very much alive and I’m glad to witness it all. Thanks for being here and doing this Thom.
MadMartigan, I couldn’t have said it better! It’s such an entrapping story. Once i get one tidbit of the story, I hang on, eagerly, to get the next tidbit. So, many people try to throw in their 50 cents when they weren’t even there, they didn’t have any direct or even indirect relationship to the 1999 expedition. I like hearing it from the horses mouth, the brave climbers who trudged around the steep slope, unroped, taking great risk of falling to try yo complete the Mallory/Irvine climb to be the first to conquer Mount Everest. Thom, I hope this is not rude to ask and you can be straight forward with me in answering. Was there ever a time that any of the team felt like keeping just a tiny part of Mallory’s climbing gear/small piece of his climbing clothing as keepsake? As a sort of personal homage to George Mallory? Please know I’m not trying to ask this in a disrespectful way, but as in a way that the climbers might even take a tiny article of Mallory to the summit as maybe a tribute to the man. Thanks Thom!
Thanks Thom and Jochen for this overview. As an alpinist and a generally inquisitive person I fully appreciate the attraction of this subject. Really would be great if we someday know the ultimate answers. In the meantime I would like to refer everyone to Terray’s book Conquistadors of the Useless😉
Hi Thom. Now that was an interesting video, great to see you both in an interview. Also, a big thank you for the new photo of Mallory's watch. It really cleared up a lot of questions I had about the hour hand and the rust stains and how they corresponded. I was unclear from the other publicly available watch photo how you knew it was the hour hand that was left on the watch. Now I can see the broken bulge of the "cathedral" portion of that hand. Really, Thom, thank you so much, you're a peach! As a former archaeologist I am all over photos of artifacts like a fly on Shinola.
Thank you John! An archaeologist! What most of the authors got wrong about the watch is that none of them bothered to ask me about finding it....except for Jochen and Mark Synnott. All the others got parts of the wrong. I just unearthed more artifact photos yesterday....will endeavor to share them soon. Cheers my friend!
@@EverestMystery Hi Thom, I’m working on an artifact by artifact, Datapoint by Datapoint, re-analysis of what we know and what we can find out by looking closer at what we have. Towards refining the timeline I’m interested in that watch you found. So, I’m writing a first draft soon, but would like your input to be part of it, agree with my opinions or not is fine and you may add and criticize whatever you like. You’ve lived this thing for a long time and are an authority. I’m doing this as a hobby interest. My point is to illuminate “what happened” and not necessarily to prove Mallory and Irvine summited. If you’re interested, I will send you preliminary text as soon as I have it. I find this a fascinating archaeological and cultural case to which to apply some different analytical techniques. Success in this process is separating the possible from the probables. Thanks again for that new watch photo. It made a very positive difference, as you will see (but may choose to disagree with). Cheers.
@@EverestMystery Thank you, Thom. It is now obvious that you, along with Andy Politz, discovered THE key clue that has solved most of the Mallory and Irvine summit question. It’s now clear just how the watch’s box crystal popped off in Mallory’s pocket during his fatal plunge, and how the hands stopped moving at that moment - without damage to the watch. As Odell saw them somewhere on the ridge at 12:50 PM on June 8th, and the watch stopped at 1:27, in 37 minutes it’s not possible for them to have suddenly turned around and made it back to the spot Mallory fell from. Odell says they were strongly moving up to the west on the ridge. Thus, Thom, Mallory’s watch is showing 1:27 AM, just after midnight on June 9th - that’s when Mallory fell and died. That’s 12 hours and 37 minutes after Odell last saw them. What were they doing all that time up in the Death Zone? If they sat still, they would have frozen dead. Mallory and Irvine spent that time summiting Everest, and then struggling to make it back to Camp VI - but they died late in the night. Everest Summit Fever’s first victims. Late start by todays’s standards. There’s a lot more technical detail in my analysis than what I’m presenting here. Thom, I’m not laying it on too thick when I say that you and Andy discovered the answer when you guys went back to Mallory one last time and found that watch in his pocket. If you hadn’t, there would be no hard evidence.
@@JohnDavidHays Hi, John! That was an incredibly interesting read. Is there any way I can read your full analysis? Your comment was kind of like an epic teaser trailer lol.
It felt like pure chance...when I got hired to go on this expedition I hadn't met a single person on the entire team....now, several of them are among my closest friends in life.
If Mallory made it to the summit he would have known that he could die trying to get back down. Surely even without a camera or knowing a camera could be lost he would have written a short note of the time that he had summitted and put that where it would stay with his body as his other papers did. In other words, the quandary we are in now would have been foreseeable to him and he would want to leave every evidence possible that he had summitted if he was going to die accomplishing that. For this reason I suspect he did not make it to the top.
@kayakdog121 you assume that someone who has been at that altitude for that period of time without O2 (taken at the correct flow-rate) still make rational decisions and has clarity of though
Another thought, when Mallory was found, Irvine was forgotten. He is probably not far off, unless the rumors of a Chinese team removing him are true. Maybe the next search for Irvine should take place in urban China.
I’ve seen a few of the items in person at the Royal Geographical Society in London. Quite touching really to see the watch face and silk hanky with flecks of blood on it.
@@EverestMystery I had a tear in my eye if I’m honest. Those items knew it all, they had all the secrets. He was a giant of a man, more than a legend, but the flecks off blood a testament to his mortality, with those humble few possessions and garments at the end of his life.
Thanks Thom. I asked what happened / where the objects are? And you replied saying you will follow up on this. Excellent video again. Keep up the good work.
The artifacts are all in museums, such as the Royal Geographical Society in London, as far as I know. Mark Synnott's book The Third Pole discusses it a bit, as he went for a first-hand look of the axe and boot, among other things. I plan to go see them again someday.... Thank you!
@@EverestMystery Hi Thom. How about this for a coincidence - I just picked up some prints from the RGS in london just now. I mentioned you to them / asked about the objects. Many of them are on loan to Bowers in California for an exhibition there.
You most likely don't know this but if you had not flown the altimeter back to the US, it may have been rather easy to determine if Mallory made it to the summit. That would require an electron/polarized microscope scans of the metal parts of the mechanism to understand the deformations of the metallic structure in the spring. If the altimeter was in the cabin or pressurized baggage compartment it may still be possible to determine the maximum altitude the altimeter was subjected to. Take it to the materials science folks at Berkeley and tell them what you need, then don't take no for an answer. You can determine the maximum subjected deformation of a metal. When I heard you had the altimeter I immediately thought you don't need the camera. If the altimeter was flown home in an unpressurized compartment this data is gone. Cheers amigo -
Super interesting. Thank you! If only I had possession of the altimeter, I'd do just that. I will investigate the possibility of this scenario taking place. thank you Alex for your insight. Cheers!
You can't say that 100% for sure unless you know the exact history of the altimeter before it was taken on that expedition, for example was it possibly in an unpressurized aircraft before the Mallory expedition that flew at high altitude? Did the manufacturer test them in a simulated environment that would have produced results equal to high altitude? Without knowing the exact history of the device and whether or not the mechanism inside was exposed to that criteria you'll still never know 100% for sure. Also, the barometric pressure at different altitudes is not fixed, it varies with the changing daily barometric pressure, you can find lower barometric pressures on Everest at an altitude that's actually lower than where Mallory's body is at that would match the pressure at the summit on a different day, on one day the pressure at the summit could be the same as the pressure at an altitude lower than Mallory's body all it takes is one good low pressure zone to move in, so the lab at Berkeley still wouldn't be able to tell you whether or not it made it's way to the summit or not and I'm sure one of them there would explain that to you.
@@dukecraig2402 I don’t think there were any aircraft in 1924 that flew at that altitude. And passenger air travel was barely a thing at the time. Surely, it could be researched to determine if he had even been in an aircraft before, let alone been above 28,000 ft. (I would guess that would have been more or less an altitude record for an aircraft at that time as well!)
@@dblackconductor Yes there were aircraft flying at that altitude then, not many yet there were. But you're missing the point, without being able to 100% verily the history of that altimeter then sending it to Berkeley still wouldn't prove anything, in the scientific and research worlds it's what's known as control's, and without them nobody credible will ever verify anything by putting their name on it.
Sorry to add on to my previous post: my wife and I have established Everest Hr each night in our lounge. I bought a huge wall hanging of Everest on Amazon....22.00, and have hung it, plus a Nepalese and New Zealand flag with it. We have been scouring all the streaming channels for content and have watched as much as we can, which has also turned into wider mountains other than Everest. Meru, K2, Annapurna, Vinson etc etc etc. We had visited Base Camp a couple of years ago and this has been a nice call back to earlier adventures. Besides, it's better than all the economy and politics BS in the news right now. Give it a go!!.....PS....I even bought a Kodak VPK off Ebay...a real beauty you should see it! I plan to put film in it, and take a few snaps for fun...yah know, to get into the spirit of the thing...but thinking about what Tom had said regarding smuggling it out of Nepal....eeeesh, sends shivers down my spine...LOL. Good day gents--and ladies!!!
LOL, indeed my friend! In 2019 as well as in 1999 we had VPK's with us....the film in 1999 didn't come out, but I've yet to learn if the images from 2019 ever made the light of day. Sounds like you are ALL IN on Everest! I agree with you that it's a hell of a lot better than the news which clogs up our airwaves these days. Stay in touch, and do let me know if you have success with photos from the VPK! Cheers my friend
Thank you for another amazing video Thom I always look forward to your videos you are my favorite you tuber by far with your great enthusiasm and a passion like mine to solve the Mallory and Irvine mystery,regards Elisabeth Kieliskowski
Thank you Elisabeth, I appreciate your kindness! I enjoy this and have fun talking to other people about it. This process has also helped me hone in on my own beliefs about what happened on June 8th 1924.... Thanks as always!
Hi,I AM a 65 year old surgeon and have been fascinated almost from the time the professional search for Mallory and Irvine started and have seen all of Mr Pollard’s videos and read almost everything there is to read about the subject . My question is if one day the Chinese will open themselves and admit they brought down Irvine’s body and the camera and tell the truth? After watching Conrad Anker free climb the second step ,well,the possibility of them having reached the top increases What do you think? Thanks Miguel Foncerrada MD FACS Mexico City
Hi Thom! I've become crazy about your channel, Mt. Everest climbs, Nepal and it's 21:2221:25 beautiful people! I've commented on several of your videos and read many of the comments from others. The negative comments crack me up. Those that don't believe the facts about the discovery, what was found, etc., are seething in jealousy. I think they need to go themselves but I doubt they even have cajones bigger than a dot! I dont think others realize that you all have communicated closely with the families and do what they request and what you are allowed to talk about. I do not think the 1999 discovery of GLM was to beat your chests and be big braggers. It was to put the mystery of what happened to them and if anything can be learned from them, if they were found. At this point, I'm not concerned whether the two men made it to the top or not, it's more fascinating how they were able to do it considering the only cold weather clothes that were available that many years ago! Maybe that's just me being an old woman. Anyway, thank you for the time and effort you put into each of your videos. I enjoy them immensely!
It's great having you here, thank you. I agree with you on the negative comments. They used to bug me to no end....but I have done the work and take them with a grain of salt. I've also hidden a bunch of people from the channel...repeat offenders or obtusely racist or unkind individuals that have no place on this channel. I'm with you on the not necessarily caring if M&I made it to the summit. Regardless, what they accomplished is beyond measure. Ahh, if only Mallory and Teddy Norton had teamed up for a crack at the top! Thanks for being here!
Thank-you for the fascinating interview and background. Were any fragments of rock discovered among Mallory's possessions? As a geologist, I may tell you that had I summited Everest, I would have carried at least one rock sample back from as near the summit as possible. If such were found, it could possibly be used to deduce the altitude they made good, provided enough detail is known about the outcrop geology on Everest, and that there is enough variation in lithologies. Are rock samples from the summit commonly available for study?.
There unfortunately were no rocks found in Mallory's pockets...yes, indeed, people typically take a summit rock (I did). I have another given to me by my mentor Bradford Washburn, who was gifted said rock from a 1984 expedition. Where do you work? I'd love to know more.... Thank you for watching!
@@EverestMystery Canadian expat exploration geologist in Namibia. After watching many of your videos, I realise that I have asked a rather naïve question, that many have asked before! Ever climbed the Brandberg?
Have you heard about the giant boulders in death valley get pushed slowly over many years....why couldn't this happen to mallorry after 100 years especially with the snow coming an going over a century, you seemed to be able to move his body so why not the wind like the giant impossible boulders in death valley ?
I've discussed this on many occasions. There were none. Not even a tiny spec of sand. Virtually everything found was brought to Base Camp, there were no rocks, such as the ones I gathered on the occasions that I was up there.
The damage to Mallory's climbing boots, was the damage to his boots caused by his falling down to the location where he was found. Now Sandy's left boot has been recovered, does sandy's boot resemble the same damage to that of Malory's boots.?
Several have honestly asked why this mystery needs to be solved. To paraphrase our subject, "because it's there!" The climbing community is by it's nature the very peak (pun) of "challenge accepted". Plus it fascinates even those of us who now have trouble climbing stairs.
George Leigh Mallory was a British citizen. How dare they take his artefacts to the USA? I don’t believe everything was given to the family or RGS, or why not bring them straight to the UK?
Slow your roll a little. We all know GLM was British. The artifacts *_are_* at the RGS, with permission of the family. I don't understand the need for such assumptions, and knee jerk reactions.
I'm not sure why you're so dramatic over the British thing? I'm in Scotland. I don't hold a grudge about items going elsewhere and I believe the family consented. It seems to me that the mountaineering community sticks together, regardless of where people are from. There's also an issue with items possibly being in china or Tibet...
@@EverestMystery From now on let's communicate using our secret decoder rings. I don't want to get caught up in your conspiracy and you definitely don't want to get caught up in mine....
Some questions, were Mallory’s pockets/clothing frozen? What would happen to Sir Hillary and Tenzing if proof was found that Mallory and Irvine did indeed summit and lastly, your inquisitive ginger cat, what is his name? Appreciate your videos so thank you.
I Wish that somebody would write a book on all the search areas that they have done ,it's Frusterating to me how the Chinese can find the bodies & all the other searches cannot except for Mallory IN 1999
Here's a darn good start: ua-cam.com/video/ARkuJEGMPwQ/v-deo.html in the notes under the video is a link where you can have a closer look at all the search areas. Cheers, my friend! Perhaps a book is in order...
Because selfish people refuse to share information. Those people want to be the ones that make the discoveries and limit information so others don't have a change. Now because of it too many things are lost with time that nobody will be able to find them. The people that are the most involved are also the reason progress can't move forward, they only want the pieces put together by themselves and nobody else.
@@hdlivemodels I have on many occasions said that there are searches that need to take place on Everest and I'm not the one to do it. I'll offer beta to anyone going. Admittedly, one does get tired of the incessant trolling of disempowered followers of an unnamed conspiracy buffoon who is constantly slinging shade. Buy me dinner sometime, I'll talk right through the after dinner drinks.... The Discord channel for first tier of members on this channel is a good place to start
They never checked Mallory pockets or anything on him most people don’t know Mallory was a avid rock collector he would always give the queen and other people, the rocks he collected from his expeditions especially the ones from the top of the mountains, because if they check him out properly, it could answer the question dd he make it to the top? I’m not saying they did anything wrong.
They did check his pockets. Wherever you got that info is sadly mistaken and poorly informed. There were no rocks unfortunately in any of the pockets. Cheers and thank you for watching! Truly appreciate you being here
Hi Alex, no rocks were found, unfortunately. For those pinning hopes on M&I making the summit by way of rocks having been found (or not) in GLM's pockets, the supposition would therefore be that they did not make it to the summit. Cheers and thanks so much for watching!
I see that you, dear Sir, generally answer reader's comments - this observation deeply respected and admired by me; not often one meets such behaviour at YT. Question: China has had an on-off attitude towards western climbers historically, and to the latter's access to the mountain. Why do China now seem to find Mallory-Irvine controversial - or is north-slopes Everest climbing in general controversial to them.
Thanks so much for your thoughts. It's probably never going to be proven that anyone other than the Chinese were the first to summit on the north via the ridge route. However, I believe there is a tendency to dissuade climbers and teams from uncovering anything to prove the contrary. At the same time, they aren't interested in using the mountain to raise funds, as Nepal is, and aren't motivated by money. In fact, they are truly interested in keeping the mountain clean, as well as free of bodies. I appreciate that you watched, thank you!
@@EverestMystery Thank you kindly. I know more about the situation now, plus that I checked your YT contribution and others. Many thanks dear Thom, we appreciate what you do, this with a positive and sympathetic attitude, ïn contrast to some of the others out there! /Hakan
Has this material been published? Look forward to what you will publish. It is rumored that a list of provisions was found on Mallory. Does it include a camera? Film? The watch crystal may have fallen out of the bezel before Mallory fell. The watch is a 1915-16 silver Borgel trench watch that would have had a Celluloid "unbreakable" crystal. The thermal coefficient of Celluloid (100) differs from that of silver (19) such that the crystal disk would shrink away from the bezel ring enough that the crystal would fall out under extreme cold conditions. Horologists know that this happened with these watches. The implication is that the position of the watch hands does not necessarily indicate the time of Mallory's fall.
The watch was facing 'in' inside GLM's pocket, and there was no sign of the crystal. I came to the conclusion that it had fallen off before he placed it in his pocket. In regards to the position of the hands, I felt sure at that moment that because he'd placed the watch facing toward his body that the hands probably didn't move much after going into the pocket. The list of artifacts does exist....unfortunately there is not a camera or film on the list. Thank you for watching!
@@EverestMystery Thank you for that information. I found a UA-cam video of a watch repair in which the plastic crystal was pressure domed to fit inside the bezel and released to a tight fit using a crystal press. I found a cross sectional diagram of the watch, printed it out and scaled some dimensions. It shows the edge of the crystal beveled, larger on the back face than the front. The bezel is similarly beveled. Once sprung into place, the crystal is securely retained. I considered the temperature that would be required to release the crystal from the bezel with the bevel and found it would take -127 degrees C. Not likely on Everest, at its coldest. So I must dismiss the hypothesis that Mallory's watch crystal fell out due to the cold. My previous calculation did not consider the bevel. There were early reports that plastic watch crystals fell out in extreme cold. I suspect the first plastic crystals were inserted in the same way as previous glass crystals, without consideration for the difference in thermal coefficient, so early plastic crystals might have fallen out in cold weather. Manufacturers would have quickly responded to the problem with the obvious solution of pressure doming the crystal into a beveled bezel. I am thinking glass is too brittle to be flexed. Returning to Mallory's watch, the question arises as to why the crystal was missing. The plastic was supposedly "unbreakable" under trench warfare conditions. How could it have broken in a little stroll up a mountain? Temperature again comes into play. The cameras used in the Houston Flight over Everest had to be heated. Otherwise the roll film would have shattered when wound. The film base was Celluloid. It becomes brittle at low temperature. It is possible the low temperature made the watch crystal fragile enough to shatter under impacts it normally would have withstood. Which pocket was the watch in? Would it have been exposed to the cold?
What's the significance of summit rocks and was there any possibility that he was carrying one? Surely a geologist would go nuts if they could find one on Mallory and solve the issue. But I suppose that everything was so charred and scattered, that, even if they did summit, the rock got lost in the fall or was blown away. You couldn't miss a rock on Mallory, could you?
Someone did a post lambasting the ‘99 team for not explicitly saying we were looking for summit rocks. We weren’t looking for a pencil, though, and found one anyway. Or, a letter and found one. There were no rocks in his pockets. Some feel this is how to prove he made the summit. Without having a look at Irvine it is impossible to know. Truly appreciate that you watched the video. Thank you!
I have a theory andrew could be a few thousand meters down the mountain from where his ice axe was found he could be buried under the snow being stepped on by others going to the summit
Hello, Thom. A few days ago a wrote a comment about British and Soviet involvment in descructing artifacts. Do you think, the Soviet expedition in 1952 did exist? Are there any traces of those phantom alpinists? Maybe their tracks have been covered as well? If so, all the case is getting as complicated as "The Bold and the Beautuful".
Very interesting....and apologies for not replying to that. I will have to look into this, as it's certainly worth some inspection. I'm not entirely sure the '52 Russian expedition existed, and have only barely tapped into writings regarding it. Love the soap opera reference! :)
The truth will eventually come out - I can't imagine any of the climbers who found out that they are not the first on this route to be okay with this lie for the rest of their lives. Even if you get rid of all the evidence, your own conscience will bite you forever.
Since GM was face down semi covered n rocks and his jacket in tatters, summit rocks could easily have already spilled out, or spilled when his body was disturbed, and missed amongst the mass of rocks already there.
Enough of this Mallory Irivine stuff that's old news....where the heck is Somervell's ice axe more importantly!!!!! He lost it on his summit bid with Norton...if we could just find that axe it will tell us everything...my word! On a serious note after reading pretty much all the books at this stage, even the obscure ones, I find myself wondering if Mallory had taken O'Dell instead of Irvine what might have happened? I mean that guy was all over the mountain for like 10 days waaaaay up high and it didn't seem to bother him. Given he was no Bueno for the o2 idea, and Mallory was, we might have a different story to be talking about right? Anyway the mystery as it were continues...and we will have more to speculate as I think there is another movie with Ewan McGregor as Mallory...wahoo! If you want to watch a really hilarious piece of propaganda/drama watch "The Climbers", with a cameo of Jackie Chan at the end....pure cinema gold....sorta.
Odell was a very, very strong climber, indeed. In reading journals of team members, I've read that he was not fast, but acclimatized very well, which is everything in the mountains. On another note, I'm in the camp that believes Irvine's ice axe was found in 1933, just below the ridge. Cheers and THANK YOU, always good hearing your thoughts!
If there was a reasonable expectation that his body would be found, may I ask why you didn't take an archaeologist or forensic anthropologist with you?
I'd have to defer to the producers of PBS Nova and the BBC. I suppose Dr. Peter Hackett would have been a good addition (he was on the next film I did with Nova, called Deadly Ascent, filmed on Denali the following year). My role in the endeavor came into being six weeks before departure, at a time where I had never even heard the names 'Mallory & Irvine' until the producer offered me the gig. My gut instinct when I got hired went like this (and I quote) "there's no way in hell we're ever going to find a body up there. But, if they want to pay me to go film a documentary on Everest, I'm all in."
Yes, could be right. But, could be wrong.... Where Odell saw them is important. I am in the minority in this belief, but feel they were much farther east than most have placed them. Thanks as always for your thoughts!
I know that I will be barked at, the more as 2024 is approaching fast, but: DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHO WAS THE FIRST ON MOUNT EVEREST??? The obsession with this "mystery" by certain people is ridiculous. OK, it's a mystery, like an unsolved crimecase, but beyond that ...? It's just about a list - and all climbers on this list derserve our deepest respect. Which name is on top - does it matter?
Generally speaking, no, it doesn't matter worth a penny. However, given that Everest is the highest mountain in the world - The Third Pole - humans are endlessly fascinated by firsts and the attempts at being the first. Will learning the truth of this change our lives? Not really? If M&I were found to have been the first on top, it would indeed change the record books. For me personally, I believe that the mystery leads people to the story because within the story is a story of desire, passion, drive, love, the force of human willpower to go to a place where no one has ever gone. The story inspires people (well, it inspires me). I've always maintained that Everest in and of itself is not important. However, and again for me personally, it has become a portal wherein I am able to talk to students and audiences about human endeavor, about going after one's dreams, about success and failure, about dreaming and believing we are capable of the impossible. So, in the end, no, it doesn't matter. But then again, it matters very much. Thank you for watching! I appreciate your comments and honestly LOVE these kinds of questions. Be well and hope to see more of you here!
@@EverestMystery Beautiful reply. Actually I should have commented on another channel, but that guys animosity and - yes, fanatism is disturbing me. I'm not a climber, so I can't speculate on the basis of the facts. I just ask myself: What would change in my great respect for these men, if the mystery could finally be solved? If M+I made it to the summit - would it even increase my respect for them ( maybe at the expense of H+T )? Certainly not! If they definitively didn't make it - I would still admire their courage. We westerners have a sad approach to these overwhelming landscapes (and to many other things too!) Always thinking about Best-of-Lists and our place on them. I have to admit, I'm sympathizing more with the mentality of the natives. They must think we are crazy. And they are right.
@@EverestMystery What I try to say is: Mountaineering (and in a wider sense being on the way/on the road) must be a spiritual experience. If you just aspire to be the first or the fastest or having a summit picture to show around - then it gets banal. For Mallory, his endeavours maybe had this transcendental quality. For Irvine it was yet probably more another adventure (or am I doing this young, goodlooking guy wrong?) For keeping the "mystery" and hence our interest and fascination alive, the question of success or failure is indeed important, I agree with you. That is: As long as it's not solved. I hope it will never be.
Most likely the Chinese already searched his body and or moved it, maybe irvine body was stuck to camera so they carried body down to base camp to heat it up to safely dislodge camera....if irvine gave mallory a boost at to get up towards the summit, maybe irvine left because he started freezing and mallory injured his head on the jump down and they probably died like most people who die on the way back down
@xenophagia you can easily swap out the missing watch hands in any watch...someone obviously took out the set of watch hands and probably put them inside their rolex as a souvenir...this is tourists grave robbing a historical figure
@@EverestMysterySo, is your cat named Simba? I'm a little confused lol. I saw a comment right before this that referred to your cat as Simba, and you replied something along the lines of "Oh man. Perhaps I named him the wrong name. Good call on the yeti."
What are you holding back about the possible discovery of Irvine? There's a comment that where you said you know something? Tell us what this is please? What do you want? Money I'm assuming?
Not holding back anything that would necessarily change the game....merely saving the story for what I am currently writing. Money is the farthest thing from what I'm after....my motivation is to hopefully inspire people to go after their dreams, to be kind to others (even if they disagree) and to endeavor to live more sustainably. Cheers and thank you for watching
@Everest Mystery - Thom Dharma Pollard I didn't mean that in a mean way. Seriously. In this day and age everyone is after cash. I'm just curious, since this mystery is so close to your heart, why anything would be held back. If it's the location Irvine then that's a big deal. So was just asking........
@@adventurfly879 thanks for the further thought, truly....if we had found Irvine in 2019 the world would have known in 5 minutes....National Geographic would not have let us hold that back, they would have milked it for maximum value. Honestly, there are so many trolls reacting to the nonsense of a couple conspiracy slinging buffoons out there that I've grown tired to talking about M&I.
My Parents were journalists and writers. We had The Whitakers over for a slide show, my father had a two digit REI number! Herzog came over one night and showed slides of Anna Purna. Most of the climbers were missing pieces of fingers and frost burned noses and cheeks. I had a wild variety kids to play with! Burmese refugees, CIA men's kids. So I listened in '86 or. '87. I thought that hunting in the Pamir mountains sounded pretty cool to me! Every once in a while they would all argue about Mallory and Irvine. At five to ten years old the poets were cool to me. I did learn to keep away from their hands
For more great content about the Mystery of Mallory and Irvine check out our playlist at this link: ua-cam.com/play/PLwmpwZ6gVdGy03uHt2aYVqJrc7gXFfPBP.html
In 1999 I was a 20 year old college student studying media. For me the resounding memory was that in my lifetime to date this was only the 3rd global news story in my memory and was not only on the front page of every newspaper but also all over the new medium of ‘the internet’. Prior to this we had Live Aid and the tragic death of Princess Diana, but this story was up there with both of these 🙏🏻
The problem with the “we don’t know” view and we need more evidence approach is that it downplays the evidence we have. The people who hold the evidence have decided they will hang onto it and at the same time conclude the evidence is insufficient to make conclusions. But unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. Painstaking forensic examination of the existing evidence by experts might yield new clues that aren’t necessarily obvious to people trained mainly in mountain climbing. We have conflicting testimonies of what was found in 1999, one or two oxygen bottles, whether they had air in them or didn’t, the watch which had hands but now doesn’t, the altimeter which might yield clues, whether the rope around Mallory was cut or snapped, was there bruising from the rope or not. I could go on. This is important stuff and establishing the facts can help build a picture. Yes we may need more evidence but that is not a reason not to treat the evidence we have properly and establish what is factual and what is not.
So true and great insight...I appreciate your thoughts and also for watching and caring enough to contribute.
@@EverestMystery hi Thom, hi everyone
It makes one wonder if there really is the desire to solve the mystery. Perhaps more is ultimately to be gained by "not knowing"?
The desire is probably there but we all have to remember that his remains are at 27000 feet and frozen to the ground. Just getting to the body would likely take months of preparation and then you are still relying on weather and plain good luck. Just my perspective
Quite correct and concise. Without questions, no amount of NEW DATA can solve this. However, if we apply NEW QUESTIONS of the data we have, then a beyond reasonable doubt circumstantial case is attainable.
In archaeology you learn that just digging up more ancient trash isn’t going to solve anything. We learn by questioning, not digging.
You brought up a great point regarding that none of the people in the 1999 Expedition were trained in areas such as archaeology or even how to “properly” search or even deal with a body that had been on the mountain for so long.
I’ll be honest here… I personally thought that the handling of the body might have been unprofessional. But, the reality is that’s because technically it was “unprofessional”. I think people need to remember that his body would have essentially been completely frozen to the mountain and not simply laying out like a person who had just fallen down. On top of this, the entire search team would have been wearing bulky winter clothing, would have been fatigued, working at extreme altitude, and all of this is going down while you’re not only at one of the most dangerous places on the planet, you were also off the main “beaten path”.
Considering all that was found, new information gained from your discovery in 1999, and even the resulting new public interest in the Mallory/Irvine story, I cannot see any conclusion other than your discovery of Mallory was anything but a complete success.
I confess that it is remarkably easy to Monday Morning Quarterback how the discovery of Mallory was handled while sitting in the comfort of a recliner in nice warm living room. I suppose if anyone would like to tell everyone exactly how this sort of stuff is handled, then they are free to come up with a solid plan, find and fund their way to Everest, climb the mountain, find Irvine, and do everything better.
Myself, I will withhold any and all judgements from this point forward since I realize and admit that I am not prepared, nor educated enough to do any better job of such a monumental task myself.
Thank you, your insights are very much appreciated. One thing to consider is the criticism that someone should have put together a team of 'trained' professionals. Perhaps that's true. Who is to say that GLM ever would have been found? Without the discovery in 1999 none of this would be taking place....the discovery happened in great measure to the exceptional research of Jochen Hemmleb and the random sheer luck of Conrad straying below the established search area. Thanks so much for watching, I truly appreciate it and do appreciate your comment.
Saw the 10 minute clip of the 1999 exhibition and have been completely obsessed with this story/mystery of Mallory and Irvine ever since. Truly a blessing Thom is here on UA-cam talking about it and teaching us in real time. Story feels very much alive and I’m glad to witness it all. Thanks for being here and doing this Thom.
It's a pleasure, thank you!
MadMartigan,
I couldn’t have said it better! It’s such an entrapping story. Once i get one tidbit of the story, I hang on, eagerly, to get the next tidbit.
So, many people try to throw in their 50 cents when they weren’t even there, they didn’t have any direct or even indirect relationship to the 1999 expedition. I like hearing it from the horses mouth, the brave climbers who trudged around the steep slope, unroped, taking great risk of falling to try yo complete the Mallory/Irvine climb to be the first to conquer Mount Everest.
Thom, I hope this is not rude to ask and you can be straight forward with me in answering. Was there ever a time that any of the team felt like keeping just a tiny part of Mallory’s climbing gear/small piece of his climbing clothing as keepsake? As a sort of personal homage to George Mallory? Please know I’m not trying to ask this in a disrespectful way, but as in a way that the climbers might even take a tiny article of Mallory to the summit as maybe a tribute to the man.
Thanks Thom!
Thanks Thom and Jochen for this overview. As an alpinist and a generally inquisitive person I fully appreciate the attraction of this subject. Really would be great if we someday know the ultimate answers. In the meantime I would like to refer everyone to Terray’s book Conquistadors of the Useless😉
Great book, thank you George! That book, bye the way, has probably the best name in all of mountaineering literature!
Thank you guys so much for continuing this story, it has gripped ne for years x
I like to believe they made it. Those SOB's had to be tough as nails just to get there back in the day. Thank You Thom for making these videos.
They were definitely tough individuals! The incredible commitment, the physical and emotional sacrifice....
Great conversation! It was fascinating hearing him talk about the smell of his clothes; what incredible memory triggers to carry on into life.
Indeed! ....and at the site where GLM lay, the same experience happened to me. It was striking....
Hi Thom. Now that was an interesting video, great to see you both in an interview.
Also, a big thank you for the new photo of Mallory's watch. It really cleared up a lot of questions I had about the hour hand and the rust stains and how they corresponded. I was unclear from the other publicly available watch photo how you knew it was the hour hand that was left on the watch. Now I can see the broken bulge of the "cathedral" portion of that hand. Really, Thom, thank you so much, you're a peach! As a former archaeologist I am all over photos of artifacts like a fly on Shinola.
Thank you John! An archaeologist! What most of the authors got wrong about the watch is that none of them bothered to ask me about finding it....except for Jochen and Mark Synnott. All the others got parts of the wrong. I just unearthed more artifact photos yesterday....will endeavor to share them soon. Cheers my friend!
@@EverestMystery Hi Thom, I’m working on an artifact by artifact, Datapoint by Datapoint, re-analysis of what we know and what we can find out by looking closer at what we have. Towards refining the timeline I’m interested in that watch you found. So, I’m writing a first draft soon, but would like your input to be part of it, agree with my opinions or not is fine and you may add and criticize whatever you like. You’ve lived this thing for a long time and are an authority. I’m doing this as a hobby interest. My point is to illuminate “what happened” and not necessarily to prove Mallory and Irvine summited. If you’re interested, I will send you preliminary text as soon as I have it. I find this a fascinating archaeological and cultural case to which to apply some different analytical techniques. Success in this process is separating the possible from the probables.
Thanks again for that new watch photo. It made a very positive difference, as you will see (but may choose to disagree with). Cheers.
@@JohnDavidHays although you left this message a year ago....all the best to you on your endeavors!
@@EverestMystery Thank you, Thom. It is now obvious that you, along with Andy Politz, discovered THE key clue that has solved most of the Mallory and Irvine summit question. It’s now clear just how the watch’s box crystal popped off in Mallory’s pocket during his fatal plunge, and how the hands stopped moving at that moment - without damage to the watch. As Odell saw them somewhere on the ridge at 12:50 PM on June 8th, and the watch stopped at 1:27, in 37 minutes it’s not possible for them to have suddenly turned around and made it back to the spot Mallory fell from. Odell says they were strongly moving up to the west on the ridge. Thus, Thom, Mallory’s watch is showing 1:27 AM, just after midnight on June 9th - that’s when Mallory fell and died.
That’s 12 hours and 37 minutes after Odell last saw them.
What were they doing all that time up in the Death Zone? If they sat still, they would have frozen dead.
Mallory and Irvine spent that time summiting Everest, and then struggling to make it back to Camp VI - but they died late in the night. Everest Summit Fever’s first victims. Late start by todays’s standards.
There’s a lot more technical detail in my analysis than what I’m presenting here.
Thom, I’m not laying it on too thick when I say that you and Andy discovered the answer when you guys went back to Mallory one last time and found that watch in his pocket. If you hadn’t, there would be no hard evidence.
@@JohnDavidHays Hi, John! That was an incredibly interesting read. Is there any way I can read your full analysis? Your comment was kind of like an epic teaser trailer lol.
Great interview Thom. Really appreciate your efforts to talk with 1999 expedition members on their experiences.
Perhaps one day I'll have all of them here in one place. Thanks for being here, much appreciated!
Great video Thom. I’m glad that you guys had the opportunity to work together on researching this mystery
It felt like pure chance...when I got hired to go on this expedition I hadn't met a single person on the entire team....now, several of them are among my closest friends in life.
@@EverestMystery are you planning any interviews with any of the other team members? I know you have a Politz interview coming out soon.
Excellent show! Thanks for sharing.
Great Video! Watching you and Jochen getting excited just recalling the discovery is awesome to see.... Thanks Kemosabe!
Elvis
More to come! Thank you!
Interesting video, thank you! Also thank you to your guest star: The gorgeous kitty in the background... 🥰
Thom, always a pleasure to watch. I agree with you that it's kind of crazy to think any of this is a conspiracy. I loved the discussion with Jochen.
If Mallory made it to the summit he would have known that he could die trying to get back down. Surely even without a camera or knowing a camera could be lost he would have written a short note of the time that he had summitted and put that where it would stay with his body as his other papers did. In other words, the quandary we are in now would have been foreseeable to him and he would want to leave every evidence possible that he had summitted if he was going to die accomplishing that. For this reason I suspect he did not make it to the top.
@kayakdog121 you assume that someone who has been at that altitude for that period of time without O2 (taken at the correct flow-rate) still make rational decisions and has clarity of though
Another thought, when Mallory was found, Irvine was forgotten. He is probably not far off, unless the rumors of a Chinese team removing him are true. Maybe the next search for Irvine should take place in urban China.
Or a museum in somewhere in Tibet.... Thank you for watching!
Nice interview! IMO I doubt we’ll ever know the full story on what happened. But at least Mallory has been located.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing this, it was very informative.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you!
Great Thom thanks for sharing.
Paul, thank you! Glad you enjoyed it
I’ve seen a few of the items in person at the Royal Geographical Society in London. Quite touching really to see the watch face and silk hanky with flecks of blood on it.
I endeavor to make that journey someday! It must have been incredible to see it firsthand!
@@EverestMystery I had a tear in my eye if I’m honest. Those items knew it all, they had all the secrets. He was a giant of a man, more than a legend, but the flecks off blood a testament to his mortality, with those humble few possessions and garments at the end of his life.
Thanks Thom. I asked what happened / where the objects are? And you replied saying you will follow up on this. Excellent video again. Keep up the good work.
The artifacts are all in museums, such as the Royal Geographical Society in London, as far as I know. Mark Synnott's book The Third Pole discusses it a bit, as he went for a first-hand look of the axe and boot, among other things. I plan to go see them again someday.... Thank you!
@@EverestMystery Hi Thom. How about this for a coincidence - I just picked up some prints from the RGS in london just now. I mentioned you to them / asked about the objects. Many of them are on loan to Bowers in California for an exhibition there.
@@arsenal10141014 super cool, I hope you saw the artifacts!
You most likely don't know this but if you had not flown the altimeter back to the US, it may have been rather easy to determine if Mallory made it to the summit. That would require an electron/polarized microscope scans of the metal parts of the mechanism to understand the deformations of the metallic structure in the spring. If the altimeter was in the cabin or pressurized baggage compartment it may still be possible to determine the maximum altitude the altimeter was subjected to. Take it to the materials science folks at Berkeley and tell them what you need, then don't take no for an answer. You can determine the maximum subjected deformation of a metal. When I heard you had the altimeter I immediately thought you don't need the camera. If the altimeter was flown home in an unpressurized compartment this data is gone. Cheers amigo -
Super interesting. Thank you! If only I had possession of the altimeter, I'd do just that. I will investigate the possibility of this scenario taking place. thank you Alex for your insight. Cheers!
You can't say that 100% for sure unless you know the exact history of the altimeter before it was taken on that expedition, for example was it possibly in an unpressurized aircraft before the Mallory expedition that flew at high altitude? Did the manufacturer test them in a simulated environment that would have produced results equal to high altitude?
Without knowing the exact history of the device and whether or not the mechanism inside was exposed to that criteria you'll still never know 100% for sure.
Also, the barometric pressure at different altitudes is not fixed, it varies with the changing daily barometric pressure, you can find lower barometric pressures on Everest at an altitude that's actually lower than where Mallory's body is at that would match the pressure at the summit on a different day, on one day the pressure at the summit could be the same as the pressure at an altitude lower than Mallory's body all it takes is one good low pressure zone to move in, so the lab at Berkeley still wouldn't be able to tell you whether or not it made it's way to the summit or not and I'm sure one of them there would explain that to you.
@@dukecraig2402 I don’t think there were any aircraft in 1924 that flew at that altitude. And passenger air travel was barely a thing at the time. Surely, it could be researched to determine if he had even been in an aircraft before, let alone been above 28,000 ft. (I would guess that would have been more or less an altitude record for an aircraft at that time as well!)
@@dblackconductor
Yes there were aircraft flying at that altitude then, not many yet there were.
But you're missing the point, without being able to 100% verily the history of that altimeter then sending it to Berkeley still wouldn't prove anything, in the scientific and research worlds it's what's known as control's, and without them nobody credible will ever verify anything by putting their name on it.
Sorry to add on to my previous post: my wife and I have established Everest Hr each night in our lounge. I bought a huge wall hanging of Everest on Amazon....22.00, and have hung it, plus a Nepalese and New Zealand flag with it. We have been scouring all the streaming channels for content and have watched as much as we can, which has also turned into wider mountains other than Everest. Meru, K2, Annapurna, Vinson etc etc etc. We had visited Base Camp a couple of years ago and this has been a nice call back to earlier adventures. Besides, it's better than all the economy and politics BS in the news right now. Give it a go!!.....PS....I even bought a Kodak VPK off Ebay...a real beauty you should see it! I plan to put film in it, and take a few snaps for fun...yah know, to get into the spirit of the thing...but thinking about what Tom had said regarding smuggling it out of Nepal....eeeesh, sends shivers down my spine...LOL. Good day gents--and ladies!!!
LOL, indeed my friend! In 2019 as well as in 1999 we had VPK's with us....the film in 1999 didn't come out, but I've yet to learn if the images from 2019 ever made the light of day. Sounds like you are ALL IN on Everest! I agree with you that it's a hell of a lot better than the news which clogs up our airwaves these days. Stay in touch, and do let me know if you have success with photos from the VPK! Cheers my friend
Thank you for another amazing video Thom I always look forward to your videos you are my favorite you tuber by far with your great enthusiasm and a passion like mine to solve the Mallory and Irvine mystery,regards Elisabeth Kieliskowski
Thank you Elisabeth, I appreciate your kindness! I enjoy this and have fun talking to other people about it. This process has also helped me hone in on my own beliefs about what happened on June 8th 1924.... Thanks as always!
Hi,I AM a 65 year old surgeon and have been fascinated almost from the time the professional search for Mallory and Irvine started and have seen all of Mr Pollard’s videos and read almost everything there is to read about the subject .
My question is if one day the Chinese will open themselves and admit they brought down Irvine’s body and the camera and tell the truth?
After watching Conrad Anker free climb the second step ,well,the possibility of them having reached the top increases
What do you think?
Thanks
Miguel Foncerrada MD FACS
Mexico City
Hi Thom!
I've become crazy about your channel, Mt. Everest climbs, Nepal and it's 21:22 21:25 beautiful people!
I've commented on several of your videos and read many of the comments from others.
The negative comments crack me up. Those that don't believe the facts about the discovery, what was found, etc., are seething in jealousy. I think they need to go themselves but I doubt they even have cajones bigger than a dot!
I dont think others realize that you all have communicated closely with the families and do what they request and what you are allowed to talk about.
I do not think the 1999 discovery of GLM was to beat your chests and be big braggers. It was to put the mystery of what happened to them and if anything can be learned from them, if they were found.
At this point, I'm not concerned whether the two men made it to the top or not, it's more fascinating how they were able to do it considering the only cold weather clothes that were available that many years ago! Maybe that's just me being an old woman.
Anyway, thank you for the time and effort you put into each of your videos. I enjoy them immensely!
It's great having you here, thank you. I agree with you on the negative comments. They used to bug me to no end....but I have done the work and take them with a grain of salt. I've also hidden a bunch of people from the channel...repeat offenders or obtusely racist or unkind individuals that have no place on this channel. I'm with you on the not necessarily caring if M&I made it to the summit. Regardless, what they accomplished is beyond measure. Ahh, if only Mallory and Teddy Norton had teamed up for a crack at the top! Thanks for being here!
Thank-you for the fascinating interview and background.
Were any fragments of rock discovered among Mallory's possessions?
As a geologist, I may tell you that had I summited Everest, I would have carried at least one rock sample back from as near the summit as possible.
If such were found, it could possibly be used to deduce the altitude they made good, provided enough detail is known about the outcrop geology on Everest, and that there is enough variation in lithologies.
Are rock samples from the summit commonly available for study?.
There unfortunately were no rocks found in Mallory's pockets...yes, indeed, people typically take a summit rock (I did). I have another given to me by my mentor Bradford Washburn, who was gifted said rock from a 1984 expedition. Where do you work? I'd love to know more.... Thank you for watching!
The layer of limestone at the summit is steeply slanted, so similar rocks can be found a considerable distance down from the exact summit.
@@EverestMystery Canadian expat exploration geologist in Namibia.
After watching many of your videos, I realise that I have asked a rather naïve question, that many have asked before!
Ever climbed the Brandberg?
@@aeromodeller1 Thank-you.
Here is a professional paper on the geology of the Everest range. www.earth.ox.ac.uk/~mikes/map/Searle.Everest.pdf
Have you heard about the giant boulders in death valley get pushed slowly over many years....why couldn't this happen to mallorry after 100 years especially with the snow coming an going over a century, you seemed to be able to move his body so why not the wind like the giant impossible boulders in death valley ?
The khumbu glacier moves about 4 feet every day.
I'm pretty sure that his body is actually frozen to the ground.
The one thing I’ve never seen mentioned is the rock samples. No mention of finding any or looking for them. Is this an oversight or is there a reason?
I've discussed this on many occasions. There were none. Not even a tiny spec of sand. Virtually everything found was brought to Base Camp, there were no rocks, such as the ones I gathered on the occasions that I was up there.
The damage to Mallory's climbing boots, was the damage to his boots caused by his falling down to the location where he was found. Now Sandy's left boot has been recovered, does sandy's boot resemble the same damage to that of Malory's boots.?
Several have honestly asked why this mystery needs to be solved. To paraphrase our subject, "because it's there!" The climbing community is by it's nature the very peak (pun) of "challenge accepted". Plus it fascinates even those of us who now have trouble climbing stairs.
George Leigh Mallory was a British citizen. How dare they take his artefacts to the USA? I don’t believe everything was given to the family or RGS, or why not bring them straight to the UK?
Slow your roll a little. We all know GLM was British. The artifacts *_are_* at the RGS, with permission of the family. I don't understand the need for such assumptions, and knee jerk reactions.
I'm not sure why you're so dramatic over the British thing? I'm in Scotland. I don't hold a grudge about items going elsewhere and I believe the family consented. It seems to me that the mountaineering community sticks together, regardless of where people are from. There's also an issue with items possibly being in china or Tibet...
All these conspiracies in the world and finally I have a friend who is an accused conspirator!!!...lol....good stuff Thom.
Hey I always wanted to be SOME-body! LOL Thanks Ted hope all is well in SE Asia my friend 😎🙏
@@EverestMystery From now on let's communicate using our secret decoder rings. I don't want to get caught up in your conspiracy and you definitely don't want to get caught up in mine....
Some questions, were Mallory’s pockets/clothing frozen? What would happen to Sir Hillary and Tenzing if proof was found that Mallory and Irvine did indeed summit and lastly, your inquisitive ginger cat, what is his name? Appreciate your videos so thank you.
Nothing happens to Hillary and Norgay, the rule in mountaineering is it doesn't count if you don't come back down alive.
I Wish that somebody would write a book on all the search areas that they have done ,it's Frusterating to me how the Chinese can find the bodies & all the other searches cannot except for Mallory IN 1999
Here's a darn good start: ua-cam.com/video/ARkuJEGMPwQ/v-deo.html in the notes under the video is a link where you can have a closer look at all the search areas. Cheers, my friend! Perhaps a book is in order...
Mark Synnott's book The Third Pole: Mystery, Obsession, and Death on Mount Everest would be a great book for this. Cheers!
Because selfish people refuse to share information. Those people want to be the ones that make the discoveries and limit information so others don't have a change. Now because of it too many things are lost with time that nobody will be able to find them. The people that are the most involved are also the reason progress can't move forward, they only want the pieces put together by themselves and nobody else.
@@hdlivemodels I have on many occasions said that there are searches that need to take place on Everest and I'm not the one to do it. I'll offer beta to anyone going. Admittedly, one does get tired of the incessant trolling of disempowered followers of an unnamed conspiracy buffoon who is constantly slinging shade. Buy me dinner sometime, I'll talk right through the after dinner drinks.... The Discord channel for first tier of members on this channel is a good place to start
Aweeesome
They never checked Mallory pockets or anything on him most people don’t know Mallory was a avid rock collector he would always give the queen and other people, the rocks he collected from his expeditions especially the ones from the top of the mountains, because if they check him out properly, it could answer the question dd he make it to the top? I’m not saying they did anything wrong.
They did check his pockets. Wherever you got that info is sadly mistaken and poorly informed. There were no rocks unfortunately in any of the pockets. Cheers and thank you for watching! Truly appreciate you being here
Hi Man, it was very important tô Mallory tô collect Rockefeller from summit. Do you know about this info tô the tem that fundo him in 99? Tks
Hi Alex, no rocks were found, unfortunately. For those pinning hopes on M&I making the summit by way of rocks having been found (or not) in GLM's pockets, the supposition would therefore be that they did not make it to the summit. Cheers and thanks so much for watching!
Interesting fact photo of his wife not found.
I see that you, dear Sir, generally answer reader's comments - this observation deeply respected and admired by me; not often one meets such behaviour at YT.
Question: China has had an on-off attitude towards western climbers historically, and to the latter's access to the mountain. Why do China now seem to find Mallory-Irvine controversial - or is north-slopes Everest climbing in general controversial to them.
Thanks so much for your thoughts. It's probably never going to be proven that anyone other than the Chinese were the first to summit on the north via the ridge route. However, I believe there is a tendency to dissuade climbers and teams from uncovering anything to prove the contrary. At the same time, they aren't interested in using the mountain to raise funds, as Nepal is, and aren't motivated by money. In fact, they are truly interested in keeping the mountain clean, as well as free of bodies. I appreciate that you watched, thank you!
@@EverestMystery Thank you kindly. I know more about the situation now, plus that I checked your YT contribution and others. Many thanks dear Thom, we appreciate what you do, this with a positive and sympathetic attitude, ïn contrast to some of the others out there! /Hakan
@@hni7458 thank you!
Has this material been published? Look forward to what you will publish.
It is rumored that a list of provisions was found on Mallory. Does it include a camera? Film?
The watch crystal may have fallen out of the bezel before Mallory fell. The watch is a 1915-16 silver Borgel trench watch that would have had a Celluloid "unbreakable" crystal. The thermal coefficient of Celluloid (100) differs from that of silver (19) such that the crystal disk would shrink away from the bezel ring enough that the crystal would fall out under extreme cold conditions. Horologists know that this happened with these watches. The implication is that the position of the watch hands does not necessarily indicate the time of Mallory's fall.
The watch was facing 'in' inside GLM's pocket, and there was no sign of the crystal. I came to the conclusion that it had fallen off before he placed it in his pocket. In regards to the position of the hands, I felt sure at that moment that because he'd placed the watch facing toward his body that the hands probably didn't move much after going into the pocket.
The list of artifacts does exist....unfortunately there is not a camera or film on the list.
Thank you for watching!
@@EverestMystery Thank you for that information.
I found a UA-cam video of a watch repair in which the plastic crystal was pressure domed to fit inside the bezel and released to a tight fit using a crystal press. I found a cross sectional diagram of the watch, printed it out and scaled some dimensions. It shows the edge of the crystal beveled, larger on the back face than the front. The bezel is similarly beveled. Once sprung into place, the crystal is securely retained.
I considered the temperature that would be required to release the crystal from the bezel with the bevel and found it would take -127 degrees C. Not likely on Everest, at its coldest. So I must dismiss the hypothesis that Mallory's watch crystal fell out due to the cold. My previous calculation did not consider the bevel.
There were early reports that plastic watch crystals fell out in extreme cold. I suspect the first plastic crystals were inserted in the same way as previous glass crystals, without consideration for the difference in thermal coefficient, so early plastic crystals might have fallen out in cold weather. Manufacturers would have quickly responded to the problem with the obvious solution of pressure doming the crystal into a beveled bezel. I am thinking glass is too brittle to be flexed.
Returning to Mallory's watch, the question arises as to why the crystal was missing. The plastic was supposedly "unbreakable" under trench warfare conditions. How could it have broken in a little stroll up a mountain? Temperature again comes into play. The cameras used in the Houston Flight over Everest had to be heated. Otherwise the roll film would have shattered when wound. The film base was Celluloid. It becomes brittle at low temperature. It is possible the low temperature made the watch crystal fragile enough to shatter under impacts it normally would have withstood.
Which pocket was the watch in? Would it have been exposed to the cold?
What's the significance of summit rocks and was there any possibility that he was carrying one? Surely a geologist would go nuts if they could find one on Mallory and solve the issue. But I suppose that everything was so charred and scattered, that, even if they did summit, the rock got lost in the fall or was blown away. You couldn't miss a rock on Mallory, could you?
Someone did a post lambasting the ‘99 team for not explicitly saying we were looking for summit rocks. We weren’t looking for a pencil, though, and found one anyway. Or, a letter and found one. There were no rocks in his pockets. Some feel this is how to prove he made the summit. Without having a look at Irvine it is impossible to know. Truly appreciate that you watched the video. Thank you!
I have a theory andrew could be a few thousand meters down the mountain from where his ice axe was found he could be buried under the snow being stepped on by others going to the summit
Hello, Thom. A few days ago a wrote a comment about British and Soviet involvment in descructing artifacts. Do you think, the Soviet expedition in 1952 did exist? Are there any traces of those phantom alpinists? Maybe their tracks have been covered as well? If so, all the case is getting as complicated as "The Bold and the Beautuful".
Very interesting....and apologies for not replying to that. I will have to look into this, as it's certainly worth some inspection. I'm not entirely sure the '52 Russian expedition existed, and have only barely tapped into writings regarding it. Love the soap opera reference! :)
The truth will eventually come out - I can't imagine any of the climbers who found out that they are not the first on this route to be okay with this lie for the rest of their lives. Even if you get rid of all the evidence, your own conscience will bite you forever.
For sure, and the clock is ticking as the older climbers die off. Thank you for watching!
Since GM was face down semi covered n rocks and his jacket in tatters, summit rocks could easily have already spilled out, or spilled when his body was disturbed, and missed amongst the mass of rocks already there.
Anything is possible - (there were no rocks or pebbles in his front pockets). Thanks for watching!
Enough of this Mallory Irivine stuff that's old news....where the heck is Somervell's ice axe more importantly!!!!! He lost it on his summit bid with Norton...if we could just find that axe it will tell us everything...my word! On a serious note after reading pretty much all the books at this stage, even the obscure ones, I find myself wondering if Mallory had taken O'Dell instead of Irvine what might have happened? I mean that guy was all over the mountain for like 10 days waaaaay up high and it didn't seem to bother him. Given he was no Bueno for the o2 idea, and Mallory was, we might have a different story to be talking about right? Anyway the mystery as it were continues...and we will have more to speculate as I think there is another movie with Ewan McGregor as Mallory...wahoo! If you want to watch a really hilarious piece of propaganda/drama watch "The Climbers", with a cameo of Jackie Chan at the end....pure cinema gold....sorta.
Odell was a very, very strong climber, indeed. In reading journals of team members, I've read that he was not fast, but acclimatized very well, which is everything in the mountains. On another note, I'm in the camp that believes Irvine's ice axe was found in 1933, just below the ridge. Cheers and THANK YOU, always good hearing your thoughts!
If there was a reasonable expectation that his body would be found, may I ask why you didn't take an archaeologist or forensic anthropologist with you?
I'd have to defer to the producers of PBS Nova and the BBC. I suppose Dr. Peter Hackett would have been a good addition (he was on the next film I did with Nova, called Deadly Ascent, filmed on Denali the following year). My role in the endeavor came into being six weeks before departure, at a time where I had never even heard the names 'Mallory & Irvine' until the producer offered me the gig. My gut instinct when I got hired went like this (and I quote) "there's no way in hell we're ever going to find a body up there. But, if they want to pay me to go film a documentary on Everest, I'm all in."
Still don't think Mallory would of went with a full ridge route on the ascent.
Completely agree, he followed on Norton’s footsteps and went either the Couloir or the zigzag route
Yes, could be right. But, could be wrong.... Where Odell saw them is important. I am in the minority in this belief, but feel they were much farther east than most have placed them. Thanks as always for your thoughts!
It's possible!
Simba strikes at 7.21 🐈
LOL, oh man, perhaps I named him the wrong name! Good call on the Yeti!
I know that I will be barked at, the more as 2024 is approaching fast, but:
DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHO WAS THE FIRST ON MOUNT EVEREST???
The obsession with this "mystery" by certain people is ridiculous. OK, it's a mystery, like an unsolved crimecase, but beyond that ...? It's just about a list - and all climbers on this list derserve our deepest respect. Which name is on top - does it matter?
Generally speaking, no, it doesn't matter worth a penny. However, given that Everest is the highest mountain in the world - The Third Pole - humans are endlessly fascinated by firsts and the attempts at being the first. Will learning the truth of this change our lives? Not really? If M&I were found to have been the first on top, it would indeed change the record books. For me personally, I believe that the mystery leads people to the story because within the story is a story of desire, passion, drive, love, the force of human willpower to go to a place where no one has ever gone. The story inspires people (well, it inspires me). I've always maintained that Everest in and of itself is not important. However, and again for me personally, it has become a portal wherein I am able to talk to students and audiences about human endeavor, about going after one's dreams, about success and failure, about dreaming and believing we are capable of the impossible.
So, in the end, no, it doesn't matter.
But then again, it matters very much.
Thank you for watching! I appreciate your comments and honestly LOVE these kinds of questions. Be well and hope to see more of you here!
@@EverestMystery Beautiful reply. Actually I should have commented on another channel, but that guys animosity and - yes, fanatism is disturbing me.
I'm not a climber, so I can't speculate on the basis of the facts. I just ask myself: What would change in my great respect for these men, if the mystery could finally be solved? If M+I made it to the summit - would it even increase my respect for them ( maybe at the expense of H+T )? Certainly not! If they definitively didn't make it - I would still admire their courage.
We westerners have a sad approach to these overwhelming landscapes (and to many other things too!) Always thinking about Best-of-Lists and our place on them. I have to admit, I'm sympathizing more with the mentality of the natives. They must think we are crazy. And they are right.
@@EverestMystery nailed it 👌
@@EverestMystery What I try to say is:
Mountaineering (and in a wider sense being on the way/on the road) must be a spiritual experience. If you just aspire to be the first or the fastest or having a summit picture to show around - then it gets banal.
For Mallory, his endeavours maybe had this transcendental quality. For Irvine it was yet probably more another adventure (or am I doing this young, goodlooking guy wrong?)
For keeping the "mystery" and hence our interest and fascination alive, the question of success or failure is indeed important, I agree with you. That is: As long as it's not solved. I hope it will never be.
@@markus6425 my friend, you might enjoy this: ua-cam.com/video/ly8FKbOJe-U/v-deo.html
Most likely the Chinese already searched his body and or moved it, maybe irvine body was stuck to camera so they carried body down to base camp to heat it up to safely dislodge camera....if irvine gave mallory a boost at to get up towards the summit, maybe irvine left because he started freezing and mallory injured his head on the jump down and they probably died like most people who die on the way back down
Watch hands are easily replaceable....kinda grose somebody has that inside there watch ⌚️
?
@xenophagia you can easily swap out the missing watch hands in any watch...someone obviously took out the set of watch hands and probably put them inside their rolex as a souvenir...this is tourists grave robbing a historical figure
@@fluffles9591 only the hour hand was lost it was a Borgel trench watch the hour hand was probably less than 1cm and so light it could easily be lost
love your cat!
He's a total love bug....frequently in need of attention!
@@EverestMystery he sure made a subscriber of me! 😀
@@aunum Simba and I very much appreciate you!
@@EverestMysterySo, is your cat named Simba? I'm a little confused lol. I saw a comment right before this that referred to your cat as Simba, and you replied something along the lines of "Oh man. Perhaps I named him the wrong name. Good call on the yeti."
What are you holding back about the possible discovery of Irvine? There's a comment that where you said you know something? Tell us what this is please? What do you want? Money I'm assuming?
Not holding back anything that would necessarily change the game....merely saving the story for what I am currently writing. Money is the farthest thing from what I'm after....my motivation is to hopefully inspire people to go after their dreams, to be kind to others (even if they disagree) and to endeavor to live more sustainably. Cheers and thank you for watching
@Everest Mystery - Thom Dharma Pollard I didn't mean that in a mean way. Seriously. In this day and age everyone is after cash. I'm just curious, since this mystery is so close to your heart, why anything would be held back. If it's the location Irvine then that's a big deal. So was just asking........
@@adventurfly879 thanks for the further thought, truly....if we had found Irvine in 2019 the world would have known in 5 minutes....National Geographic would not have let us hold that back, they would have milked it for maximum value. Honestly, there are so many trolls reacting to the nonsense of a couple conspiracy slinging buffoons out there that I've grown tired to talking about M&I.
My Parents were journalists and writers. We had The Whitakers over for a slide show, my father had a two digit REI number! Herzog came over one night and showed slides of Anna Purna. Most of the climbers were missing pieces of fingers and frost burned noses and cheeks. I had a wild variety kids to play with! Burmese refugees, CIA men's kids. So I listened in '86 or. '87. I thought that hunting in the Pamir mountains sounded pretty cool to me! Every once in a while they would all argue about Mallory and Irvine. At five to ten years old the poets were cool to me. I did learn to keep away from their hands
Do you mean Werner Herzog the film maker?
Where was mallory's pack, didnt he something to carry oxygen, water , few supplys?
Not sure where the pack was. Given what was probably a violent fall, chances are that it came off or was left behind....