DC Bronze Age Horror Isn't The Gold Mine You Think It Is...Let's Discuss...
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- In this video I discuss the latest greatest hottest genre of Comic Book to begin simmering in the market - DC BRONZE AGE HORROR! Halloween must be approaching because everywhere I got it seems like people are talking about these books going to the moon. So in this video I go in depth talking about if these books will in fact blow up. In my humble opinion, there will be a time when all the books get attention in the market, but I'm not yet convinced they can provide year over year returns like PCH books do. If you can find them in the wild for cheap, then sure, they can be great flips but I wouldn't be the first to jump on a CGC 9.8. We have to see which books pull ahead of the pack as "keys" and I would suggest to focus on the covers done by Neal Adams and Bernie Wrightson the most.
What do you guys think of DC Bronze Age Horror? Will this books go to the moon?
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Intro
02:57 - The Next Best Thing Theory
06:36 - Lack Of Historic ROI
10:06 - Artists & Books To Focus On
17:02 - Low Census Doesn't Mean Value
20:26 - Final Thoughts
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Not many 'keys,no movie hype, but some of the best comics of the 70s.They've always been collectable and still will be when today's comics are long forgotten.
DC Bronze Age Horror is old news to me. Been picking them up for years on the cheap. As a collector I actually hope they don’t get expensive. Wrightson covers/art will always hold value though.
I completely agree! I’ve been buying these for years because they’re so much fun to read. I’m hoping they stay low so I can keep enjoying them
I have few counterpoints.
1. (a)The main reason we've seen so many of the DC Horror in $1 bins over the years is because most comic shops have historically been Super hero-centric and many were never considered for priced back issue stock by owner/managers that are biased against anything not in their wheelhouse.
(b) Most horror fans aren't digging through $1 bins hoping to pull horror comics because 99.999% of the $1 comics are comics they will never be interested in, so they are more like to sit for $1. They want to be pointed to the horror section, they will look through those and not touch anything else in the store.
2. I buy lots of collections and not just comics, Horror collectors are a special breed of collector and the most likely place you will get a horror collection is at an estate sale, Horror fans hold on to their collections all the way to the grave.
If you just limit your access to Wrightson and Adams you are missing SO MUCH. Enjoy the genre and don’t forget about Charlton and Gold key and ……
Thank You jess
As a new collector who is into horror comics, I couldn’t agree more with you Jess. I am buying what strikes me and there are SO MANY cool comics out there. Ive fallen for Charlton personally, they have some really cool artwork, including some by the great Steve Ditko. I’ve not purchased much DC yet, there’s enough Charlton and Gold Key to keep my happily searching for quite some time.
Just be careful with Charlton.
Look for an "All new" on the cover
@@dreamakuma Also a big M in left corner for Modern Comics (reprints)
The most valuable Bronze Age DC horror book, by far, is House of Secrets 92. There are only three 9.8s out of 3300+ graded copies. Only 1% of graded copies are 9.6 or better.
I don't think we have to worry about a flood of high grade Bronze Age DC horror hitting the matket. The stuff was never that popular. If you can find your favorite books in 9.0 consider yourself lucky.
Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love has been hot and rare for over 20 years.
Bronze age horror is my sweet spot. Glad to see this video, but also a little sad. You mentioned a couple that I'm still trying to acquire in high grade. The rush is on now that Swagglehaus is talking about them on his channel. Lol
Great video - enjoyed the content. You could make the same argument for the Warren magazines from the same era: Eerie, Creepy & Vampirella. Many had the fantastic covers by Frank Frazetta & interior art by all the top artists of the time. I think the other part of this argument is that most collectors (such as myself) are from that era, and remember buying these books off the rack. These are still relatively affordable compared to other silver age / bronze age books.
I think you’re way off here. DC Bronze Age horror has had a peak before, 15ish years ago, and then went soft. There are so many sales not in GPA. I personally owned the Oakland HoM 175 which was graded 9.6 and sold for $2,650 back in’07 or so. Sold a Witching Hour #1 for $800 in 9.4 about the same time, and got $1,200 for a Witching Hour #2 9.6 back then as well. You think there are a lot of DC bronze horror unslabbed, maybe, but the prices these were getting back then would have brought out a lot of them and it didn’t. You didn’t even mention king daddy, DC 100 Page Super Spectacular #4 with the best Bernie Wrightson cover of all of his BA horror work. If a 9.4 or 6 ever hits an auction now, watch out! Book is seriously rare in grade.
You know up until a couple of years ago you could get Gaines files copies of most EC horror books for a relatively reasonable price, 1-2K for non keys, that was because people had the thought “oh, they aren’t rare”. Look at CSS 22 now, and any EC GFC is going to command multiples of what it did just a few years ago. Why? Because collectors recognize they are some of the best comics ever made. DC horror are the best horror books of the Bronze Age, covers and art. They are legitimately hard to find in grade and I don’t think this time that they will soften like they did back in the late 2000’s. If you like em, better get them now.
Loved these in the 1970's and still love them now. Always buy what you love :) I always buy low grade to read them......
Great video and for the most part I agree. The biggest regret I have as a collector was losing a short box of almost every published Wrightson cover. It was stolen at load-out at a Boston convention in the late 80s. And actually losing that box diminished my enthusiasm for collecting comics for many years. But I still have nostalgia for it and I'm not alone.
This is significant because the factor that rules value at auction is the necessity for just a few buyers with deep pockets to be interested in the same comic. Several film directors and musicians are massive collectors of both pre-code and Bronze horror which is why they go for mad cash in 9.8 at auction and rarely get sold in that condition. And as far as finding an ungraded 9.8 candidate in the wild, you are really in needle/haystack territory -so when these books appear you need to fight Guillermo del Toro, Kirk Hammett, Mike Flanagan, Greg Nicotero, Joe Dante, and even low-key collectors like Michael Rosenbaum who are likely to outbid you.
High-grade War comics are also super tough in high grade but a little easier to score in the wild. There are also fewer really classic covers, but when they go to auction they always sell for multiples of the so-called FMV.
Like anything in this hobby, your expertise is your edge. If you know that there are hundreds of Wrightson collectors, go after Kaluta and Jeff Jones covers. In the case of Kaluta, try to find his 90s Vertigo comics in 9.8. It's not easy. Titles like Books of Magic, with gorgeous covers, are scarce as graded 9.8s. So are all the James Jean covers of Fables except for the first issue. As more recent comics released in an era of conservation-minded collectors you really can find 9.8 candidates raw in back-issue bins for cover price. And it's kind of crazy to me that James Jean isn't being collected like Dave Stevens. And aside from Fables, there are only a handful of other covers under his signature, making that subset easy to collect and complete with a super low buy-in.
You are absolutely right! Finding 9.6 - 9.8 copies of the early Bronze Age horror is extremely difficult. I have a very nice collection I would be lucky to have even one raw 9.8 candidate. I would be lucky to have a 9.6 or two!
Hmmm. There are several videos discussing DC Bronze Age Horror as the next big thing. Sounds like it already is. And it does make sense, given that so many collectors, influenced by UA-camrs such as yourself and Automatic and others, can't afford pre-code horror. But in any case, people should buy them because of the cool covers by Neal Adams, Mike Kaluta, Berni Wrightson and others. Comics as an investment? Not a great idea.
I always say if comics were a great investment every comic book dealer would be rich. They aren't.
Don’t forget about Nick Cardy!
@@CelestialWoodway Yes. I wish this idea of comics as an investment would just go away. In the case of DC Bronze Age horror, I think they're fun and I like the art. It seems like an entertaining collecting (not investing) area.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time….as I showed in the video I personally collect some of these books for fun, but I focus on values because the goal of my channel is to help collectors make good buying decisions. I’m addressing the fact that there is going to be a time when Fomo goes crazy for these books and people should be careful of buying into the hype
yea because if these books pop off, they will just as quickly disappear sooner than later, its still a long way off before there has even been enough time since these things came out (if ever) for alot of them to be no brainer investments like many PCH books are. Plus pch books have that pch allure to them. These could be great books for flipping when the time hits for sure tho, but def would not be a sector of the market i would fomo into whatsoever.
Now do it for Bronze Age Romance. Same deal!
Dont forget the Halloween effect and how some of these books jump during the month of October
As a vendor, I try to supply these out at easy to get prices for a substitute of PCH.
Well timed episode. Lots of birdies talking about this.
I have a witching hour skull cover collection that I adore. I've always loved skull covers but could never justify paying big bucks for pch books, so I found this title to be great and super cheap
Swaggle you just gave me an idea for my next cover homage !
I don’t want to go to the moon. But I do like some of the DC horror books. And some Marvel. And don’t forget there are some very nice Charlton Horror Books.
Love horror comics of all eras, but definitely on the hunt for Bronze Age lately. Not as easy to find now
Love these vids bro…and I agree with your assessment of DCH? on all fronts ✊
Def fair point, but i think Swagg's point is that since there are very little of high grade, most spec buys will be of lower to mid grade copies, in which case it would be a reach, at least in IMO@@DavidClark-vu3dw
Sorry for all the comments. I actually watched this twice as I liked it. So much. I just realized You did not mention The Witching Hour. Oh my. That series is definitely worth checking out.
Better watch it for a third time then!
❤🎉 SWAG 🎉.... Good inside info for sure... But we're all going to have love for that pre code.. but there was some good stuff from DC in 70s... Just as I read little bonus tidbit I got that Edgar Allan Poe pit and the pendulum
What's the obsession with how much money a comic is worth? Just enjoy the damn things.
because they are way more enjoyable when they are worth a big wad of money, simple as that
@@nunyabizwacks6711It's largely a scam perpetrated by greedy comic shop owners and slab companies.
@@DavidClark-vu3dwGood for him.
I think it’s exciting to have some newer books and a horror genre get hot. A few others to look out for are the tops comics from the 90s with Freddy Krueger and Halloween covers.
Great analysis.
When is the video dropping about all the Marvel spec books bombing miserably?
That Hollywood Marvel hype is over. The Boys tv series has made a mockery out of Marvel superhero shows. The Boys is done right.
Never happen, those that love Marvel love it to death
Did you warn people who got burned during the boom? Tons of people got burned buying over hyped and inflated marvel and dc superhero FOMO books in the past couple of years, in my opinion people are less likely to get burned with this genre. Anyone buying based on FOMO is likely to get burned, regardless of the specific genre, if we’re being honest. I will be waiting for this huge jump in census numbers from the people with stacks of high grade HOM and HOS according to you and your colleague!
Lastly, nice job pointing out some of the great covers. I give you credit for your taste and you did point out some valid aspects to consider. Peace!
Fun video and good to see these books getting attention, thanks for featuring them!.
All I'll say re: finding 9.8 raws of pre-1974 DC bronze horror in the wild... good luck! You'll need it. The paper is very unforgiving and doesn't press up easily.
DC horror is great, but dont skip the Marvel and Warren horror/monster magazine format books. Art and stories in these are amazing, and you get some awesome Neal Adams and Frazetta covers as well. Might not go to the moon, but will bring much hoy
I would say buy it because you like those books, don't do it because you're specing on it.
Thanks for the video.. Anybody knows who made DC Unexpected 1971: "The deadly widows web" great art
Agree with you more or less. It seems like more older collectors (50 to 60 year olds) have rotated more into the bronze age horror the past few years. The prices on those books have been lower in comparison to the superhero books of the same era. Price is just a reflection of demand, right? I don't see many 20 to 40 year old collectors diving into bronze age horror so this is probably like Western comics were to the older collectors back in the 80s right before they fell off a cliff. Buy what you like is what I always say and forget the trend. If you're speculating then best of luck to you on predicting what the next bronze age horror book will be. Thanks for the video Swagg!
I agree. If I buy horror Pre-code seems a better bet.
But you'll have to pay a whole lot more. Isn't the interest in Bronze Age horror simply the result of most collectors interested in horror not being able to afford pre-code?
Pre Code Horror is valuable because those books are old, and the creators were sick in the head, and Seduction of the Innocent made them infamous. Bronze Age Horror books are not even comparable. They aren't "second best" or remotely as violent or comparably infamous to the PCH genre books. That said, Bronze Age Horror are very kitschy, melodramatic ghost stories akin to Scooby Doo Mysteries with some great 70s/80s cover art. They will never have any movie spec mass market appeal, and they were likely mass produced and found in every personal collection and LCS 5 dollar box. There is not a wide market for 9.8 graded Bronze Age Horror books, but the speculators and dealers and market makers will hype this because the Silver Age superhero comics are crashing.
I was like true but eh at the Same time about everything you said. Everything has a value and even the value people place on things fluctuates. A tip to ALL collectors. Collect what you like! It is the point after all. I value things people could care less for and things I did care about while others didn’t now hold more value in their eyes and now less in mine. Collect what catches your eye just don’t overpay for what you want unless it’s by a couple of bucks to definitely secure what you’re after.
Love bronze horror and DC is the best of them, but I will buy any. What do I look for? The damsel in distress in her nightgown. Some other cover are great too, but those are the best
Something else that has a low census is The New Universe. Legendary run, historically important, first alternate universe before multiple universes were cool! New Universe to THE MOON!
Fun and timely video. I'm curious to know, however, why you think there won't be a growing demand over time for these sorts of books. If pre-code horror is popular, but many people can't afford it, isn't it reasonable to expect that the demand will continue to grow for BA horror in tandem with the popularity of pre-code horror? By the way, I don't own any and so I'm not a seller.
i dont think BA horror books are going anywhere too fast
@@nunyabizwacks6711 I don't think ANY comics are going anywhere too fast. So might as well just pick them up for fun.
There are a few DC goth romance books that had a horror vibe that have been expensive for years. The had Great art , Decent writing and were more geared towards a female audience, so, they were more story driven than action driven. They are hard to find and even harder to find in high grade.
I don't know the exact number of these books there are because they kept changing the tile. I guess between 4 to 6.
I'd also guess that they had lower print runs and only came out either bimonthly or quarterly , ergo they
, honestly, I'd say probably 90-95% of DC bronze age horror books just weren't very good. Yep, they had beautiful covers but they suffered from poor writing and often , not great art.
The anthology style just didn't seem to serve them well as opposed to Marvel's mostly on going character title horror books .
Anyway, all that to say, I absolutely agree with you Swag!
Once humans start travelling to Mars and hotels are built on the moon, there will be such excitement around space that pre-code sci fi will be the ultimate winner, that is one of many reasons I have started buying a lot of weird science and weird fantasy books (I also do love the covers hehe) 😀🚀🚀👽👽
Bronze Age romance is the new low key sleepers.
Shhhh. lol
The only Mystery comics that I’m interested is Journey into Mystery Marvel.
If your looking to go to the moon comics aren't the ticket 🤣🤣🤣 collect them read them love them don't expect a charter to the moon.
No! Its hard enough to find these witnout fighting the flippers for them. I love collegting these
For years I searched for HoM and HoS in high grade, amassing nice runs in high grade raw. These books are very hard to find in the wild. No one cared. The books have great covers and super fun stories. Most of them are not and never will be keys. Very few DCU characters can be found in these anthologies, other than the firsts of Cain and Abel and of course HoS 92 with ol’ Swampy Guy. This stuff is for niche collectors for sure such as your post-chad collector you outlined on your white board. I am very skeptical that there are boxes and boxes of this stuff sitting around in high grade raw. Supply will always be limited. But will there be a larger collector base other than weirdos like me who actually live this stuff? Maybe but I don’t think there are too many. The other thing to remember is that these titles ran for a long time and so there are many, many issues with so few keys. Which ones should one pick other than the ones with done history? I think you got it exactly right. I like Kaluta’s covers too, Vince just doesn’t get the love he deserves.
Along with superhero books, I love the horror genre and am actively pursuing ECs when I see decent mid grade books for sale. I have almost all the marvel silver and bronze horror books and to be Frank, have neglected the DCs but must admit, some of the covers are enticing me! One area you overlooked is marvel magazines that were published in the 70s whose sole purpose was to get around the comic code. I purchased and read them as a kid and was enthralled with the stories and art. I own I think every horror magazine they published and am proud to have them in my PC.
Some of us collect these for the art and enjoyment. Not everything is about profits down the road.
Yup, I almost got sucked into this FOMO…
I’m not so patiently waiting, 😢when is issue 2 of Sanity coming out Swag???
Depending on the book something like an awesome cover could spike but I'd be investing in something like EC war books instead
War books are never that hot.
@@CelestialWoodway that's why I'd invest in them the art is still incredible and I bet they will catch up when people catch on
Dude c’mon, if you know this genre you know there is a major reason there is only one 9.6 copy of HOM 179 on the census. It’s extremely tough in high grade due to the dark cover and it’s age. I mentioned this genre to the other UA-camrs that I’m pretty sure you’re alluding to, and the question was if they are undervalued, not whether they were going to take anyone to the moon.
I buy and collect pre code but I love bronze horror! I'll be perfectly happy if they never gain in value and hope nobody wants them! Just more for me!
I agree!
id say they will have their wave like everything else, but will probably be a loooong time yet before they build that long term investment type value
Overlooked later gem - 'Flinch' (DC 1999-2001) - check out the talent in this short, dirt cheap run
Everyone should start making videos on them being trash so I can keep buying them cheap lol
All these kids growing up aren't going to buying DC bronze age Horror in droves; they will be buying spider-man.
Think they'll be buying a lot more then Spiderman lol. Y not batman, x men, avengers?
@@yashileakduth928 spiderman, x men, avengers, Superman and Batman etc yes. Although I think spiderman will come out the top from what I’ve seen with the newer generation.
@@jaredlandry it will be interesting to stay the least, lots of ppl would be betting on miles morales at the moment. From what I can see from sales charts and rankings spidey and spidey characters are currently at the top, sales are dominated by marvel characters and batman carries the lonely fight for dc and is the only character selling well and that's sad for dc, they need to sell more then just batman even tho he's the most popular, he can't carry them on his back forever. He's getting over saturated in the market and he's my fav character and I can barley afford more then 2 series of his.
@@yashileakduth928 It's a good bet. Miles Morales + Peter Parker + Gwen. Those three cover many different demographics. Spider-boy just came out recently too. I'm already collecting his stuff in hopes he'll become a mainstay and eventually be introduced in a movie. Batman I think is a close 2nd behind Spiderman. When I was growing up he was Number 1. I agree with all your sentiments about him. But at least he didn't tumble as hard as Superman did. DC films is a mess and the only thing they really go going for them is the solo batman and jokers films. They keep DC afloat.
@@jaredlandry definitely bud, u Makin great points. I just hope more n more ppl will collect, especially the young ones but we need good creator's and writers on the titles. What are u currently collecting?
Theres still so many good pch books that are really affordable, and from and investment point of view why wouldn't you go for those instead
What is pch
@@CelestialWoodway pre code horror
Behave Swaggle ! Bronze Age DC horror isn’t going to take anyone to the moon - however it is quality - and buying quality is never a bad thing. Joe Orlando as editor on House of Mystery set high standards on art and storytelling. Buying quality is a solid bet.
Someone found an Avengers 57 box in a warehouse. Just sayin :)
subscribe, like and comment the video 🥶
Swag - another great video. Some thoughts - I think it's fair to say that one of the reasons that Bronze Age horror (DC or otherwise) is getting investment traction is that the genre has received increased popularity in recent years and these books are much more obtainable than PCH. You emphasize the risk of prices being impacted by increased supply but this could be said for most any genre - not just DC Bronze Age horror. One relatively notable aspect of collecting these books which you did not mention in your video is how often the best covers are the ones which have no text, captions, or dialog. The image tells the story. I think that is particularly why these books resonate so well with collectors.
House of secrets 94❤
This is not new . There are a lot of Wrightson and Neil Adam’s covers that have been sought after for along time . I’m a big horror collector . So I hade been buying and hoarding them for years .
First of all, you keep mentioning flipping these books. This genre has nothing to do with flipping. Flippers aren't buying this stuff, the price increases are purely organic to this point. Not every genre of comics has value because of fomo and flippers and mcu and all that crap. Some of it just awesome art and rare in high grade. The genre is now half a century old and chock full of top notch artists including Wrightson, Adams, Kaluta, Cardy, Dominguez, Morrow, Sparling, etc. A broad swath of collectors are discovering how awesome these books are, and with scant supply in high grade there is no reason to think the prices won't continue to rise. I think you don't fully realize how hard these are to find in 9.4 and up. "All of the backstock gets pulled and sent to cgc." This stuff is not even in the same ballpark as Eternals 1, not even the same universe as Marvel superhero bronze. I've been hunting high grades raws of this genre for years and they are all exceptionally hard to find in anything above 9.0. Many of these books have NO 9.8's on the census - that's not because people just kept their worthless dollar bin mint raws in mylar lol - it's because they just aren't out there. All the guys I know who are buying this stuff, including me, are true collectors who only resell our undercopies. Don't hold your breath waiting on a flood of high grades hitting the census anytime soon lol.
Thanks for the comment. I do think these books are tough in high grade - I say as much in the video. As I’m sure you know HOS 92 only has 3 in 9.8 (and that’s a book many people send in). My point in this video is that people need to be careful and educate themselves on the genre. A book like HOS 138 has zero 9.8’s and only 11 on the census…Does that mean it’s rare? Not necessarily, it’s just a book that isn’t that sought after and sent in. I made this video as we are quickly approaching Halloween and seasonality and Fomo play a role in this market. I’ve already seen/heard people just buying up random books on hype. And yes, those people are flipping them. You yourself admit that you sell your under-copies is that not flipping? I know you have a wealth of knowledge in this topic which I respect, but my video is just here to add caution an awareness to it. Are there amazing covers? Yes. Do I myself own some of them? Yes. Would I sell into hype if prices went crazy? Yes. And if things did ever get crazy do I think the entire collecting market would be incentivized to send in more for grading? Yes. All things can be true at once.
@@Swagglehaus ill bet you $20 you cant get a 9.8 of hos 138 in the next 6 months lol. thats plenty of time to scour the comicverse out there for high grade raws, and if you get a 9.8 on one ill come on your show and paypal you $20 during the show and we can shoot the breeze about the genre. ill even bet you cant get a 9.8 on ANY raw bronze dc horror book from 1969-1973 in the next 6 months. people have no idea how tough these books are.
@@dscomics5603ha you might be right but I picked 138 specifically cause it’s 1975 :). Figured that would improve my chances. I agree with your year window being super tough…even super hero stuff has low 9.8 rates in those years. But Do you feel like the later run horror is as hard in 9.8? Even the 1980 stuff?
READ SANITY NOW
I bought my DC Bronze Horror decades ago. They are all raw. Some could get highest graded.
Not all comics are meant to be spec'd or invested in. Some comics are meant to be collected and enjoyed. Bronze Age DC horror -- which has some of the finest stories and art -- is meant to be collected and enjoyed. And I will add this: it wasn't long ago that PCH was relatively cheap -- books in the low 100s. I've seen this movie before. Early BA DC horror in high grade (9.0 and higher) is becoming harder and harder to find. And with that, prices start to go up. Eventually these high-grade gems will be highly sought after and prices will be in the 500s to 900s for 9.2s to 9.6s. Remember this.
These books have been sought after , sold for 10x guide in grade, and sent in for grading for 20 years. Your take on the genre shows your lack of understanding. That’s fine, steer more people away please.
Silly boy Marvel Bronze age horror is where it's at
It's so cute when you younger guys think you have figured out something that us old timers have sought for years. DC bronze horror have been in demand for decades but you young'uns who only care about first apps never noticed. Any early HOM or HOS in 9.8 is near a grand and no there are not thousands of high grade copies out there. Funny thing is if you don't appreciate comic art for arts sake there is no reason for you to buy DC bronze. So, just tell everyone to move on to the next bigender alien superhero first app and leave the DC horror to those of us who actually buy comics for the art, not the resale value.
Biggest problem is Bronze Age horror is a wet fart compared to golden age. And there is so much more golden age horror that is better. Plus at the end of the day, one would rather $500-1000 on an awesome lower grade pre code than a high grade Bronze Ager. It’s just the fact of the matter
Your delivery is so obnoxious I decided to quit collecting comic books.
I love how every youtube comic guy thinks the comic code was bullshit...have you seen the covers... have you read the stories lol. How dare parents want childrens books to not be about sadomasochistic sex and violence! Anyone who has moral fortitude is a Karen I guess, society must be moral free for freedom, now wear your mask to the comic show and be a good boy!
jfc karen...