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Seele should have been the quantum and hunt character of the standard banner giving us every path and element instead of that fraud 5 star unit yanqing.
I've been saying this for the longest. I also love how people ignore the issue of it not that Seele is bad or has fallen off but more of these newer units passives are just absolutely broken. For example take away Jingliu's passive and make her skill a normal burst move and she would just be Misha. Same for DHIL (His buffed 3 times skill passive plus extra skill points on ult), maybe Acheron. How every Hunt unit would not struggle as much. Just my two since on how these unit passives are getting out of hand for Destruction and maybe other paths two.
this is typical hoyo design right. the only universally broken 4 stars in genshin and honkai are the ones that were released on launch when they add kits that can help players progress but don't realize how op some mechanics are. Every other 4 stars after that are niche and only useful in certain situations or are just a budget alternative to a 5 star
@@mysh24robin would run alongside tingyun in hypercarry if anything, unless you're running dual dps in which then she's competing with ruan mei and not tingyun
People just drop her before getting into a certain power threshold that she needed to be good, since she is a 1.0 character. Like she’s terrible for casual players, but in CN she’s a record breaking character for tryhards in both Pure Fiction and Memory of Chaos. She’s also the hardest character to play, you just have to know the right stats for her and her supports to make her work, skill and knowledge issue is a problem.
100% agree, I feel like Seele is one of the few units in HSR that genuinely requires more skill and knowledge to play, because of action adv and extra turns.
I sort of agree with what you said about Seele but about her being still record breaking in CN I would love to see that, I got the opposite impression that CN dont think of her as highly anymore, A while back :/
This really does feel like a damage-per-screenshot scenario. People see Acheron ult doing 700k and don't realize that half of that damage is waster in overkilling mobs and Seele could have acted 4-6 times by the time Acheron gets enough stacks.
I still love using Seele. Main DPS for my quantum team, main DPS who carried me in belobog. Silver Wolf and Sparkle just make her extremely fun to use, and she's still fine.
Seele’s true colors only show at a certain investment threshold, but me personally, I’d say it was worth it. All those extra good leftover Quantum relics from farming saved time for my other DPS builds, namely Jingliu and Acheron, all while my Seele’s deleting MoC bosses left and right from having some solid relics.
I do not agree with the 0 cycle metric because those almost always drop the sustain character. It also almost always requires absurdly fast supports. Some safe dps characters like Clara and Blade can do low cycle clears better because they can drop sustains or use weaker sustains. Some characters allow you to greatly increase your dps but they prevent you from 0 cycling sometimes due to the nature of their kit. So for example: Acheron, Sparkle, Silverwolf, Pela will easily 0 cycle but that team usually sucks because it dies often. An Acheron, Pela, Silverwolf, Gepard team will easily clear but it can take several cycles. An Acheron, Welt, Silverwolf, Sparkle might take 1 cycle to clear by doing way more damage than the Gepard team but it is very tough to 0 cycle with it. It is however much safer than a risky 0 cycle team. If we measured characters by their ability to 0 cycle it would mean that sustains are all trash.
That last part is true though, that's why Luocha and Gepard fell off, Fu Xuan, HuoHuo and Aventurine all provide offensive utility in addition to comfort, sustains that only sustains aren't considered meta anymore
I agree 0 cycles is not a good metric to judge character strength. I used it more as a point that, if you can 0 cycle every single MOC and 40k every PF with Seele, she definitely isn't powercrept or has fallen off yet. And yes 0 cycles should absolutely not be used to judge sustain characters. Only offensive ones.
It's not a good metric for playing normally, but it is an entirely different separate category. You normally don't want to go over 0, or at the very least 1 cycle if you're playing 0 cycle, past that you'll definitely die. The point is, if you can beat something in 0 cycle, the enemies most likely don't do enough damage for you to actually die, unless you're unlucky and got focus fired by multiple enemies. Bringing a sustain or not can be a 0-cycle to 3-cycle differences, it doesn't matter, but it feels great ngl. Though i never seen a low cost sustainless Clara clear, you kinda really need her to get hit to do anything, most sustainless runs don't want to get hit frequently. Though there are some merit on your last statement. The top tier sustains usually have offensive buffs, or at least offensively capable, that's why you see people valuing Aventurine, Fuxuan, and Huohuo more than Bailu, Gepard, and Luoca. Surviving in this game is easy at end game, because the more damage you do, the less sustaining you have to do, and pretty much the safest sustains in endgame are the one that's able to help you kill the enemy faster while doing the bare minimum to sustain. That's why sometimes you see a high end Acheron team playing Welt, she don't need that much sustain, because with Welt's help she can kill the enemy faster.
Tbh, I’m kinda glad someone actually posted something about this; People like tectone keep shitting on selee, and because of that, people in that crowd are convinced that she’s dogshit, when she’s still useable, and in all terms, still viable for all the current content in the game. Yeah, it’s harder to build selee than Acheron, but I just kinda wished that they were more vocal about pros and cons, and willing to say it more as it is, instead of just shiting on something through our own rose-tinted glasses.
She most definitely got powercreeped by like almost every single DPS that has come out and tbh the only reason she is still meta is because there is no other quantum DPS character (except QQ but it depends on who you ask on whos better between the two) once another 5-star quantum DPS comes out shes cooked 100% immediate mid A tier especially considering the powercreep in HSR and if the content keeps getting harder as is she might drop even lower since its already hard enough to proc resurgence often without bronya/sparkle + high investment if that stops being reliable she’ll be one of the worst 5-star DPS’s which is given since she is the first limited 5-star in the game shes gonna get powercreep to that extent eventually
All that is spot on, still techtone has bad take’s so I don’t wanna take him seriously. The same guy who likes to rage bait just to stay relevant in a way.
@@zerovking7629 Seele got so powercrept, that she's one of the few characters in the game, that can one turn kill most MoC 12 bosses at e0, with sustain on the team. There's no bad characters, there's only bad players
@@zerovking7629 Yeah couldn't have said it better, if she does her thing then S tier prob best 0 cycler, if not then her dmg output is terrible compared to anything else. Extremely hit or miss unit
Your point about Seele being one of the fastest DPS characters in the game is so TRUE! I don't know how many times people disregard the fact she can abuse turns in a TURN BASED GAME. Any character that can move multiple times in Turn based games have a lot of potential, and Seele's damage lacks in return compared to other damage dealers. Also ty for the small shoutout lol xD
The thing is that we already have characters like Bronya and Sparkle who make you move just as much as seele while still being able to keep their high damage
I really want to main her back, but this time seriously, like optimizing every part of her and knowing exactly how she works, looks like a very fun character to main
@@natsan18 I’ve lowkey been binging your content since the Blade vid got shown to me. 💀 Your discussion content is music to my ears. I love this stuff!
Clicked on a random video and you just metioned your Blade video which i really really liked and realized ive been watching you for a while. Nice videos man, just subscribed
I still skipped Acheron and continued using Seele, I'm F2p so i feel like pulling for Fu Xuan would be good for my mono Quantum team since i already have SW and bronya, Yes Acheron is waaaaay better than Seele but that's also the reason why i skipped, playing Acheron felt like putting the game on Easy mode. If you're not tryharding you can make any DPS work as long as you enjoy the character
Using Seele e0s1 to this day, mono quantum team of SW, Sparkle and Fu. Sparkle has her LC, pushing my build on Seele to 100% crit rate with 199.9 crit damage and just a bit over 3500 attack before buffs. She did 4 cycles on second half of latest MoC which is great in my book given that this fight is not in her favor at all. Seele is fine.
as the first limited dps unit, she's in a much better spot than if she was in many other games that end up doing powercreep for monetization / revenue. also i feel like that on top of being the first limited unit ever in hsr while also using one of the most universal relic sets, it can be safe to assume that a lot of people will have her built by now, especially since sparkle was the final piece a proper mono quantum team. overall fun vid and you explain things well
I personally don’t care what anyone says about selee. She’s still my favorite character and I use her till this day in MOC. She’s still my most invested character and I love her kit. And all those I have Acheron and jingliu I still picked her for MOC 12 and 3 stard it
from what I've seen Seele mains are rather classy when it comes to meta-discussions. They admit that other characters are stronger than her (namely Acheron and Jingliu), but still point out her upsides and ceiling if properly invested. Side note: I think the notion of Seele needing an "insane" amount of relic investment is a byproduct of Seele Mains being upfront about it from the get go because the other DPSs (except Jingliu and Acheron) hit like a wet noodle without the same high level relics as well but that is hardly mentioned for them. Also Quantum domain was by far the best domain to farm until the dot set came out (now thoses two are tied). All in all I am perplexed seeing so many doubters about an arguable Top 3 Dps in the game
Seele still works, I used mine side 1 this abyss. The issue is everyone’s sort of kind of built Seele isn’t good enough anymore. I know people still are using the artifacts they got the first month and haven’t tried to improve them at all.
I think it's also good to account that there may not be many 0-cycle videos for characters outside of 5 stars as much due to their popularity. a ton of ppl pulled and spent money on Seele's banner on debut, so it'd be natural there'd be a ton of recorded documentation of her capabilities. (btw she's great, i use her--- but i just wanted to point this out) this might also be why the 1.0 dpss' are sometimes accounted as power crept into the 'unusable' category, as ppl may be comparing characters based on how much investment they need (which feels weird as the gap usually isn't big if you invest equally) of course, this will definitely change as more dps characters come out, but it isn't a reality just yet.
Yea but some characters just that good in 0 cycles compared to others, thats why u still see selee in every patch doing it while not other dps shortly released after her, like JY, kafka and blade.
@@ranges787 Argenti maybe cause they have to release another physical erudition to make him irrelevant. But Jinglu is most likely getting powercrept by Sam cause Firefly literally has Fire implant in her base kit and is a Destruction character, so yeah
@@Ikaretayaroudaze i see jingliu stayn relevant vs any moc with ice weakness forever. and i doubt that they will make another ice dps like her in a long time. same with acheron and sam i doubt that they will ever get irrelevant
On the topic of 0 cycles, E0S0/E0S1 Seele has always been the one to do it with low gold cost and/or with a sustain compared to other limited 5 star dpses according on bilibili. This is the first MoC where she cant because Aventurine mechanic completely counters her. However, according to leaks, e1s1 Robin can help Seele achieve 0 cycle against Aventurine. Even if we ignore 0 cycles altogether, ive seen e0s1 seele clear aventurine within 4 cycles on yt. This is pretty impressive considering the fact that theres no trash mobs ( no uptime on resurgence) and she cant win the gamble (loses dmg %).
Her pasive really lock him behind from other meta character, and you need heavely invesment to unlock his pasive to work properly and when compare to other character with the same invesment they do better than seele
I think the not so good reception Seele has been getting has to do with her not feeling very good to play(if u miss a crit, or fail to even get your resurgence she feels pr bad). Since calcs are usually extremely sus in hsr, ppl like to go off feelscrafting to judge a unit. And if a unit doesn’t “feel” good to play, then ppl will just very easily brush them off. This is why Blade, a unit that u said yourself was mid, still had relatively good community reception because he was just that comfy and easy to use.
I barely use her but I used to use her a lot for her technique to skip the bugs when I was doing the main story in space station, before I got Acheron and insta killing enemies now deleting em from existence and not having to worry about fights. Nowadays I only use Seele in simulated universe and she is pretty nice there but other than that she isn't you need AoE nowadays in everything and new bosses and content. The only thing I think Seele needs is for her resuguarance to be an enhanced skill that doesn't consume a skill point.
To me zero cycling should not be the metric. I have an E1S Seele with a quantum 4pc, around 90/190 crit ratio and atk boots, but even with S1 Sparkle and another S+ support (or SW) she sometimes feels clunky and she works best in very specific content. Maybe it’s a skill issue, but my Seele struggles against enemies like YQ, with his stupid swords. And missing crits really sucks. It’s completely anecdotal, but I don’t enjoy doing runs with her as much as I do with my Kafka dot teams, Acheron or even Blade, who is not the fastest, but so consistent. So she might not be powercrept per se, but she is not as comfortable to use and I feel she needs way more pampering and baby sitting than other dps’s. And that makes me use her less and less.
yeah, that's a skill issue I've 0-cycled old MoC 11 and 12 YQ with an abundance LC using an e0 seele, e1 bronya, e6 tingyun and e3 pela with no 5-star LC's. However, recently I prefer using Dhil or Ratio since they're so much easier to play even if they clear slower.
as someone who has used seele since day 1 i can say that she is criminally underrated she is that one dps that has been able to keep up with everyone else people state that she is powercrept because its like the woody and buzz lightyear picture where andy has gotten a new toy that's the same with seele the moment a new dps comes out they instantly assume that the previous dps's are bad now Seele is still very good there are better options but id say she is worth it to pick up if you want at least she isint like a regret pull that just depends on you unless they release an Insane Support that targets mostly Hunt units i think seele will at least go down to High A and stay there
Yes like most people commented here: Seele needs a certain amount of investment to pop up but she is to this day stull my to go DPS for how comfy Mono Quantum since I can just slot this team whenever on a stage and the other side can use some of my other high end DPS unit like Acheron, Jingliu, Ratio or even Clara
I feel like seele takes too much investment to be competitive with newer units, i have her e0s1 and my dhil was overpowering her with the spare musketeer pieces i had and aeon s5
Yo, you're here, you think that she can 0 cycle Aventurine with E0S1 supports? I don't, so prove me wrong once again, also Bronya Eidolons are allowed even her LC superimpositions,but only Bronya, No E1RUAN or E2SPARKLE, gud luckkk!!!!
I think a problem with Seele is that her Talent has a strict trigger condition, so for most of the time she effectively don't have a talent, where as other characters' talent is online most or all of the time. Further more, Seele's Ascension 1 trace is effectively useless, she don't need to decrease her aggro, she isn't Yaqing where she loses buffs if hit.
this video made me go back to my e0s1 seele, feel sorta bad i stopped using her, and put her set pieces back on. Gonna even top out her traces now (even though that should have been done a while ago. a loooooong time ago)
It's all about enemies - For a while I also thought that Seele was left behind to a point I mostly left her out of my team for Qingque, but that's because game tailored new content to new units that focused on AOE. Few patches later and my Seele can clear last MOC floor in 2-3 rounds, while my Blade team struggles to not excess 20 turns left limit.
Kinda wish that at the current state of the game, her ult is changed to also trigger resurgence instead of just letting her enter the buffed state. So she gets to ult under the buffed state then gets an extra turn. If the ult gets a kill, she gets to resurge. If the extra turn also gets a kill, she gets another resurge(maybe under an eidolon or smth) so her full combo can trigger upwards of basically 5-6 actions. I don’t think it’ll be completely busted given that she only gets all these extra turns if she can get a kill which unless there are plenty of adds like in PF she won’t be that much more effective than she is now. It’s just that the scope of abilities the current roster and newer units have compared to what Seele is able to do as a day one unit is getting quite glaring. But HYV did do a great job at maintaining her niche and strength.
Those saying Seele is power crept simply don't know how to use her to her full potential or have underwhelming relic stats. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending but i honestly believe it's 'skill issue'. She can still do her job really well, only difference that she has compared to other hyper carries is she needs higher investment & some setup. She's the most reliable quantum dps we have in the game as of now. Seele will always have a place in the meta until another 'busted' 5* quantum unit is released that can take her place.
@@jak4290Acheron is annoying af to play with if you plan on using E0S0, because most Nihility units are made of paper and for some reason get targeted alot
since my only DPS are seele and jingliu, with right support seele doing her job quite well, but when I checked other DPS at youtube other DPS just outperform seele and I was really sad... but at the end of the day I can clear most of game contents and keep saving for firefly :)
I'm a dude that got a e1 seele in 1.0 then dipped all the way till 2.1. All I want for her is to be viable in Moc and the new (Allegedly) upcoming single target content down the line (for at least a year or so) as an f2p.
the problem is my E0S0 Seele is doing 30k skill dmg with 2 harmony fully maxed out relic and talent and my light cone is yanqing signature, dont tell me i have build problem, some f2p doesnt have sparkle S1 and ruan mei E2, even i saw some f2p seele doing the same damage as mine wonder why she powercreep (my best selee dmg full buffed is 80k skill and 110k ult)
Enemies in Honkai Star Rail have a resistance stat to various elements. If an enemy is weak to an element, then they have a 0% resistance to an element If an enemy is not weak to an element then they have a 20% resistance to that element And if an enemy is stated to have a "[element] resistance" then they have a 40% resistance to that element. Very rarely it's 60% though (like Cocolia's ice resistance) These values translate to a value between 0.1 and 2 (an enemy with a 20% resistance would be set to 0.8) and finally we get back to elemental resistance penetration. Elemental resistance penetrarion increases that value by a flat amount. So if you're fighting a quantum weak enemy the value will be of 1, then Seele will add 20% to that increasing the value to 1.2 instead of 1 as a multiplier to all of her damage. It's a pretty rare source of damage boosting so on average it is quite important.
Finnaly someone commenting on her with a brain and not baised calling her bad cuz they cant make her work. one of the bigger issues she has is that just like free 2 play universe hunt cone, if u cannot manage kills anymore, and dont have another characters to soften the blow. shes gonna fall off heavely. so powercreeps is quite a natural problem for her in a way. i been using seele since day1, and only the next dps i pulled for was acheron, with near perfect sub stat rolls. but still use seele for most of the work actually ironicly enough. the resurgenge is where her kit mostly comes from, and if u keep the resetting up the advance forward and the extra kill energy and bonus action is also extra energy, procs of like crazy in shorts amount of time. and also i think to many are just screenshothrny and only look and rate it only at that. Great video
One thing about Seele I think many don’t understand is that the buffed state actually lasts for more than just the turn you get from Resurgence. There resistance penetration and dmg % buffs actually last until the end of Seele’s next turn (assuming you don’t get Resurgence again).
Seele is good enough to clear any type of content in this game, she's just the least strong limited dps and i think ratio gonna be a more comfortable choice since he's really is a top tier single target
Seele is a character that was basically designed to become slowly obselete the longer the game goes on. Its very clear to see that the HP pools of enemies in both MoC and PF have been increasing very rapidly every patch and will most likely continue to do so (we can infer that from characters like Acheron being released). Seele is unique in the sense that she gets affected by this way more than any other DPS would because of the requirement for her to trigger resurgence. The HP pools of small mobs increasing to the point where Seele can't one shot, or maybe even two shot small mobs with her skill will be the end of her, and that looks to be inevitable at this point.
But it is also a fact that Relic Quality improves over time, so as Day 1 Seele players play the game and get better relics their damage should also be increasing. Unless it comes to a point where like you said it's impossible to one-shot a mob then she'll be a pretty timeless DPS since I don't think there will be a another until with a kill reset Passive.
Would disagree. This current moc with aventurine, all the elites/bosses has their hp raised by around ~20%. My e0s1 seele team with a sustain clears first half against cocolia/dinos in 1 cycle, whereas my mono quantum team can clear aventurine in 3 cycles.
Newer units will always be stronger, but stating that she was designed to be obsolete over time is forgetting that Sparkle released one patch ago and she is the biggest upgrade for her team because she was designed to fully complement her. That's not something mods would do if they really wanted to powercreep her completely. Instead, they're slowly implementing characters and modes to get even older characters still usable, such as Yanqing (or Arlan to an extent), whom with the release of Aventurine is becoming relevant again. When they introduce mechanics that will make older units completely unasable, that's when it will make sense to say that the devs are going to take the Hi3 route.
I am a qingque main but i have had an E1 seele since launch (using the stellar sea lightcone) and my qingque is using the S5 peaceful day lightcone (identical base stats) with the same monoquantum team (E2 S1 sparkle, E0 S0 fu xuan, E0 tutorial silver wolf) Using nearly identical builds (but seele can use a crit damage body and still maintain very high crit rate) They are both highly invested and i still prefer using qingque tbh. In this most recent moc on the first half my qingque can sometimes 2 cycle but garuntees a 3 cycle and seele always 3 cycles. While i do think (from my experience) that qingque is still better i would never to as far to call seele bad, a 3 cycle is still very good.
The thing is that Dan jingliu and Acheron are just so much better, like my e0 s1 Dan with garbage stats is still hitting 120k per basic, and my e1 s1 seele, who I got F2P on her first banner, can barely do anything even with the same stats
My personal experience with her is that she performs worse than both my Qingque and Xueyi, making it so I have no reason to field her ever. I'm not sure what the issue is, whether it's the lack of her signature LC or a relic diff. I've tried playing her, really, but I can't reliably kill things to utilize resurgence fast enough. As a bit of isolated, anecdotal data from the current MoC12 using my characters: Qingque -> 3 cycles Seele -> 7 cycles
I think Seele is still the beast dps in my Team, but the reason for that is not that Acheron is weaker, but my Seele is by far the best build char in my Team. In any kind of content i can rely on her and i think she even got a small buff with the release of sparkle.
My Seele is e1 and missing her light-cone, but Shushang speed> crit > break at e6 and swordplay s5 will usually get more turns when farming the hunt Cylex on the snow planes for resources and racing the two against each other for the fun of it. And yes, I read Susangs kit and wanted to see if she could be as fast a Seele so that was the focus of relic build. advancement thru break vrs kills (Seele breaking actually advance Sushang). now e6 Seele with her light con I am sure Sushang will be better of reading her book then readying her sword.
I would say for the upcomming Endgame Content that we'll get in 2.3 she will be more valueable again. That is, if you don't have other good single Target DPS' already and don't need to pull for Seele because of that.
@@satoukazuma2875 Yeah I feel this is only really true for the Acheron comparison, otherwise she's actually gets fairly close to the Destruction carries in terms of damage output *if played correctly properly managing her buffs and Resurgence. The biggest problem is how frequently she can get into Resurgence, which may become an issue in the future but isn't too bad right now. If we get 5-star version of Tingyun so Seele can have 2-turn ult rotations, that would just be insane (but that's not likely to happen for a while).
I mean, there another way to buff Seele is a support that give decent Additional DMG on attack like Tingyun. Since Seele take so many action the DMG could add up really quickly. Also it could help a lower investment Seele one-shot mob more constistency, the only thing that hindering newer player to use her. A character that have a counter that count the number of action the DPS take and upon reaching the threshold trigger somekind of attack/effect like how Adventurine and Blade talent work could also be very interesting. And they also work very good with FuA character like Topas, Ratio, Clara not just Seele 🔱
Robin seems perfect fit xD. Tho u need more investment (like E1S1) on robin so her bonus dmg can do good dmg. FuA team no need as much investment on robin coz how often they attack, the bonus dmg piles up anyway. But if u E1S1 her, FuA comp will be insane
I got seele on her rerun completely by chance (literally 10 pity for no reason). I really wish I had clicked the topaz banner instead because I want her for a ratio-aventurine team and with the reruns coming and with firefly coming, I can’t justify pulling topaz for myself.
I do agree with the fact that seele is still good but she won’t be doing the same as newer and fresher units like Acheron dmg wise since she is a day one unit but as buffers keep coming she’ll still be decent to use for some situations or just be relevant in general
@@invertbrid don’t over look him with MR Vibe around people are 0/1 Cycling MoC with him now that he has a reliable shielder in Single Target fights be is definitely about Seele in DPS.
I wouldn't, unless you're willing to farm Quantum for 2 months or more. Seele isn't bad but she needs so much investment that the best time to build her was Patch 1.0-1.2. The second best time, however, is now.
One important thing I dont see anyone talking about is MoC turbulence favorings. Why are we using 0 cycling MoC as a "benchmark", when it always has a turbulence that is crafted to favor the newest units and their unique mechanics? Similar story for PF buffs. Probably the best example is Acheron and the debuff spamming buff. No one uses that buff well EXCEPT acheron. In the absence of it, I dont see acheron being nearly as good as seele for pf
Well yes it does buff the current new 5 star unit, we're talking about a 1.0 dps, the very first unit in the enitre game. She has 0 cycled every moc with the turbulence. For one moc that does not mean much, but we're talking about every moc since release. They're plenty of moc buffs good for her and bad for her, yet she still cleared it. That can be used as solid data. The next moc will be 0 cyxled by acheron or selee regardless of the moc buff and they will continue to be. Also there have been plenty of moc where the buff only happens once at the end of the cycle, which is pretty bad and makes everyone stand a netural feild and they all perform how we expect them too. Moc turbulence is no were near a big enough impact, if we don't use 0 cycle as a becnch mark then what will we. Simulated universe, story bosses, farming? All of which are easy and mindless.
@@uyeah1234 Im not saying seele is bad, I’m saying the opposite. The newest dps will always look miles ahead of old ones because we don’t have any data for future MoC or PFs that don’t favor them. Seele is strong because we’ve seen her at her worst and she still performs well. No one has tried being more creative in methods gauging character strength. I think there’s potential in gold and gears bosses of plane 1 and 2. You can use the pursuit dice to skip directly to them: nearly all blessings and curios can be removed from the equation. They are bulky, hit hard, have a variety of mechanics (testing flexibility), and you can fight them in the absence of a turbulence
Honestly why seele is "falling off" is because her single target kit(the hunt) with the abundance of AoE characters(foreshadowing Acheron...) All of the hunt, eurodition, got clapped by either the destruction, or nihility since we thought that nihility units are supposed to be a sub DPs kind of thing that will change an outcome for your main Dps. But I guess hoyo is literally going beyond that "nihility units are there to tamper with enemy capabilities" And let's be real, acheron should've been a destruction. Not a nihility..
Overall, Seele is still pretty good at average relic investment. But at high relic investment Seele is pretty much the best by quite a long shot. Xolze's channel has vids of Seele with very high relic investment and pretty much none of the other dps units competes with her. Not even DHIL or Acheron.
I started to feel the exact same way, my Seele is decently built yet she's very, very inferior to my Dr. Ratio. IDK if its because of the fact that I lack her Signature lightcone since I am using the Herta Store one.
1 idea of a support that would make Seele become overpowered: A support that summon "false enemy" The event "Tides of Wave" give us a perfect example for Seele's best buff that allow to redirect "Overflow" DMG to other enemies. If there come a unit that can apply a debuff where dmg got redirect onto the debuffed enemy, or a buffer that create fodder enemies and allow "Overflow" DMG to accumilate and redirect it to the Elite/Boss. These buffer does not benefit Seele only but also help pure AoE character like Agenti or Jingyuan. I have this idea since the early games, and i thought they would not able to make such thing until the event, which give me hope that soon we will have such support for Seele, and she will once again conquer the meta.
Dan Heng IL, Acheron and Jingliu are some of the examples you gave that are better than her and they are much more versatile than her. Dan Heng IL will do big damage when you have 3 sp, Acheron will get a lot of ult dmg with nihility teammates, Jing liu cuts allies hp to make sure she has enough atk (which might even be an upside if you are using blade). Another reason is that the only hunt lightcones she wants are the 5* light cones so it is definitely a higher barrier of entry if you are already using Cruising on Dr Ratio lets say. Seele pushing for very hypercarry playstyles is also a detriment while considering what teams to use in PF or MoC for example. Then what if we use seele as a subdps? Resurgence isnt as consistent since if the main dps is aoe the mobs might already be dead or if the main dps is single target there might be no good enemies to proc resurgence off. Frankly i think her best double dps team is with Jing yuan as Jing yuan's backloaded damage can go all onto the main enemy due to seele taking care of the mobs and Jingyuan skill not doing enough to kill usually. Seele has no real synergy, any dmg buff or ult gauge increase is going to benefit any dps, but Acheron, Jing liu, blade and even the DoT units are all dps that have much greater synergy than her. The only one who also falls into this category is Dan Heng IL, but his playstyle is that if you can Enhanced Basic every turn, he WILL do consistent damage. Perhaps if we have a dps that gets buffed whenever an enemy is killed or a buffer that gives buffs on kill that she will start to really shine. In such a resource intensive game like HSR, its just not worth building her right now. I still havent farmed a glamoth set for her because i have other units to raise
"-she has an amazing relic set, she has extra turns with resurgence, she has a hot girlfriend,-" liked. subscribed. shared. raised the banner in your name. marching at dawn.
What's frustrating about seele is when she doesn't crit in her most important turns, the damage difference is humongous 😂 When the boss is low on health, weakness broken, seele is buffed by 2 harmonies, and then guess what... At that moment she doesn't crit 😂😂😂
Id recomend sacrificing c dmg for c rate for seele because of that. Makes her very consistent and actually quite strong even if her individual hits are less. My seele atm is at 75/150 ratio with the herta lc so she basically always crits even if its on the lower end of c dmg.
@@TheUnholyToast1 bro, even at 90% crit rate this seele behavior is still annoying. Seele's problem is more like the way she did the damage hits rather than the crit.
This surely won't age horribly when Boothill comes out! /J I think something important to think about is that even if a character isnt the most "meta" or "bis", they can still be good. With enough love and the right characters you can still clear moc. If my copium ahh Argenti can, then your hyper invested Seele definitely can Meta is fun and all, but it's kind of stupid when you think about it- and unfortunately is used to doompost characters based off personal bias a lot of the time Another thing is niche characters will still have content to solo. Herta and Argenti will remain relevant in pure fiction, Fua will be good in MOC and SU.
And what people forget is META WILL change and maybe this is just Copium but there might be a time where Seele can actually fight to her fullest potential
I agree but I mean Argenti is super good at base lmao, he gets free 25 crit rate I remember? Not really fair for Seele to be compared to him since Argenti can stay at 50 crit rate then his own Planar set and Sparkle will just buff his crit dmg so no need investment while for Seele u at least want 90% to be consistent. Even with Fuxuan and Sparkle LC u still want 70% from artifacts which is not easy lol.
It's not all about how fast she can be, rather how quick she can kill the enemy with the least sp as posibile and what else brings to the table for a Hunt character. She maybe be one of the strongest Hunt chatacters, but Ratio and Topaz can do her work just as good as her, even better sometimes because of their FUA's. That's why I belive that once Boothill releases he will outshine her(not by much, just like Dr ratio) only for his skill alone. Spoiler for those who don't know:Boothill's skill it's something like a Blade skill combined with TB's skill, I mean he taunts an enemy for 2 turns, gains a ton of damage and he doesn't need a sp for those 2 turns.
My take is she is just investment heavy compared to other units like Jingliu or Acheron. Her passive literally wont work if you lack the investment. If you make her work then good she isnt really a bad unit but also hard to reach her full potential
Pulling Seele on her rerun was by far the worst mistake i made in HSR so far. I was too obsessed by the vision of a mono-quantum team to think clearly. Like, sorry, but i am not willing to put 3-4 months of farming into one character to maybe make her almost as usable as my Jingliu, or Acheron with similar supports after a couple days of farming relics. Even QQ is more effective when i give her Seele's relics... That's just not worth my time / investment. But i still hope they introduce new good Quantum DPS soon, i have not given up on the dream yet and the base (SW, Fu Xuan and Sparkle) of the team is potentially very strong.
Seele is still a solid character, but it is undeniable that she is falling further and further behind in the META comfort DPSs with even more damage and utility are released and the game increases the difficulty in favor of the new characters
I feel like maybe my biggest Seele mistake has been tying her to mono-quantum. I still enjoy her and clear but I've honestly never used her with RM or Tingyun.
All 5 star limited characters are good. They are not trying to Rick Astley you if you're paying Au$300 for a character. It will however depend on your current roster, what you want to synergize, how you like to play and do you like the character. I got my eyes on Jacqiao inbound!
Tbh doesn't matter how bad seele gets I will still E6S5 her with all her possible future reruns Because I love her entire existence in every universe. And after all, she was the only one who I spent more than 200 usd on (every others like blade, IL, acheron, blackswan and ruan mei usually only get 10-20 usd spent on them, and I failed to get her copy on her rerun during topaz banner :V so I'm stuck at E1S1) Also if I got hanabi/sparkle I will just do the braindead mono quantum and auto run MOC (Acheron already able to 3 cycle aventurine with bad stats mono mommy)
Hear me out This is pure speculation from me , but we might get a seele henshin (transformation like Dan heng) From sampo in 2.0 we know that belobog is experiencing some issuee right now so we likely are going back Furthermore , belobpg is the only place that doesnt have a blessed STATIONARY emanator , herta from herta space , King yuan from Luofu. Etc Now the most PROBABLE CAUSE , Seele vollerei in HI3 has a weapon that she can use , its name? "path to acheron" I believe acheron and seele are likely to be intertwined now as people have even confused them in some official arts. No less how Acheron is an emanator , and raiden mei from HI3 is a herscher. It is likely that seele might get a transformation of some sort IM SAVING UP FOR MY WOMAN!
2:06 She is collecting so much dust in my F2P account that i 0cycled MoC 12 with her... A F2P account 0 cycle without insane builds(no wind set Sparkle, no E6 TIngyun, no S5 Luka LC on SW and Danace3x being only S2).
Personally, i think the reason why people think Seele dmg isn't that impressive nowadays because aside from Jingliu and Blade SR has been releasing nothing but damage per screenshot characters
I mean... she is a good character, I've invested a lot in mine. but it's 'easier' to build other characters [acheron, jingliu] with lower investment. is she getting powercrept? yes, is she still viable? yes, would I recommend her over other dmg dealers? no, but in the end, it's best to play whoever you having fun with...
1k subs. Thank you guys so much ♥♥♥ I'm going to try my absolute best to keep making the content that you guys have been enjoying!
Also 07:13 the Genshin brainrot slipped out 💀.
Don't forget to join my discord server! Hangout with other HSR/Genshin enjoyers, have your ideas show up in videos and I will do some small giveaways soon! discord.com/invite/j3rPgbD2UV
I'm looking forward to this new content! (You make great content already btw)
Congrats on 1k subs bro! Looking forward to seeing you grow even more! :)
Seele should have been the quantum and hunt character of the standard banner giving us every path and element instead of that fraud 5 star unit yanqing.
I've been saying this for the longest. I also love how people ignore the issue of it not that Seele is bad or has fallen off but more of these newer units passives are just absolutely broken. For example take away Jingliu's passive and make her skill a normal burst move and she would just be Misha. Same for DHIL (His buffed 3 times skill passive plus extra skill points on ult), maybe Acheron. How every Hunt unit would not struggle as much. Just my two since on how these unit passives are getting out of hand for Destruction and maybe other paths two.
its honestly amazing how tingyun a 4 star at launch is still so great and still fills a niche that hasn't been powercrept by other harmonies
Robin:
@@mysh24no battery? 👀
this is typical hoyo design right. the only universally broken 4 stars in genshin and honkai are the ones that were released on launch when they add kits that can help players progress but don't realize how op some mechanics are. Every other 4 stars after that are niche and only useful in certain situations or are just a budget alternative to a 5 star
@@mysh24robin would run alongside tingyun in hypercarry if anything, unless you're running dual dps in which then she's competing with ruan mei and not tingyun
@@felixma9192 fua is the battery
Imagine you, your girlfriend, and your older sister are all top tier characters. Seele impact
Not canon
@@1m_N0t_CrAzY yeah I know I’m not dumb
Broneele is cannon is hi3 tho
@@deedeesga34 remind me what game the video in question is covering
@@1m_N0t_CrAzY imagine being this homophobic
People just drop her before getting into a certain power threshold that she needed to be good, since she is a 1.0 character. Like she’s terrible for casual players, but in CN she’s a record breaking character for tryhards in both Pure Fiction and Memory of Chaos. She’s also the hardest character to play, you just have to know the right stats for her and her supports to make her work, skill and knowledge issue is a problem.
100% agree, I feel like Seele is one of the few units in HSR that genuinely requires more skill and knowledge to play, because of action adv and extra turns.
Where can I see the difference in playerbase for each server? Is there a specific website?
@@MrBertonznah you just go to chinese website like Bilibili
I sort of agree with what you said about Seele but about her being still record breaking in CN I would love to see that, I got the opposite impression that CN dont think of her as highly anymore, A while back :/
@@natsan18I mean this is a team game so why not have strategy involved you know? Feed the brain some knowledge might save you one day
This really does feel like a damage-per-screenshot scenario. People see Acheron ult doing 700k and don't realize that half of that damage is waster in overkilling mobs and Seele could have acted 4-6 times by the time Acheron gets enough stacks.
Oh my goodness this is so true! Like they compare numbers to numbers, without actually thinking about what those numbers mean.
Acheron e0s1 ults nearly twice every turn. Unless a Seele does like 2 million damage per turn (she doesn't), she is straight up just worse.
@@voii0777Yeah she doesnt, she does 3 million effective dmg at e0s1
@@XolzeTelosSeele is not doing 3 million damage in a turn lil bro 😭
@@XolzeTelos Im talking about sustain teams btw not 0 cycle teams
I still love using Seele. Main DPS for my quantum team, main DPS who carried me in belobog. Silver Wolf and Sparkle just make her extremely fun to use, and she's still fine.
Seele’s true colors only show at a certain investment threshold, but me personally, I’d say it was worth it. All those extra good leftover Quantum relics from farming saved time for my other DPS builds, namely Jingliu and Acheron, all while my Seele’s deleting MoC bosses left and right from having some solid relics.
I do not agree with the 0 cycle metric because those almost always drop the sustain character. It also almost always requires absurdly fast supports. Some safe dps characters like Clara and Blade can do low cycle clears better because they can drop sustains or use weaker sustains. Some characters allow you to greatly increase your dps but they prevent you from 0 cycling sometimes due to the nature of their kit.
So for example: Acheron, Sparkle, Silverwolf, Pela will easily 0 cycle but that team usually sucks because it dies often. An Acheron, Pela, Silverwolf, Gepard team will easily clear but it can take several cycles. An Acheron, Welt, Silverwolf, Sparkle might take 1 cycle to clear by doing way more damage than the Gepard team but it is very tough to 0 cycle with it. It is however much safer than a risky 0 cycle team.
If we measured characters by their ability to 0 cycle it would mean that sustains are all trash.
Skill issue ngl
I agree the 0 cycle metric is bad
That last part is true though, that's why Luocha and Gepard fell off, Fu Xuan, HuoHuo and Aventurine all provide offensive utility in addition to comfort, sustains that only sustains aren't considered meta anymore
I agree 0 cycles is not a good metric to judge character strength. I used it more as a point that, if you can 0 cycle every single MOC and 40k every PF with Seele, she definitely isn't powercrept or has fallen off yet.
And yes 0 cycles should absolutely not be used to judge sustain characters. Only offensive ones.
It's not a good metric for playing normally, but it is an entirely different separate category. You normally don't want to go over 0, or at the very least 1 cycle if you're playing 0 cycle, past that you'll definitely die. The point is, if you can beat something in 0 cycle, the enemies most likely don't do enough damage for you to actually die, unless you're unlucky and got focus fired by multiple enemies. Bringing a sustain or not can be a 0-cycle to 3-cycle differences, it doesn't matter, but it feels great ngl. Though i never seen a low cost sustainless Clara clear, you kinda really need her to get hit to do anything, most sustainless runs don't want to get hit frequently.
Though there are some merit on your last statement. The top tier sustains usually have offensive buffs, or at least offensively capable, that's why you see people valuing Aventurine, Fuxuan, and Huohuo more than Bailu, Gepard, and Luoca. Surviving in this game is easy at end game, because the more damage you do, the less sustaining you have to do, and pretty much the safest sustains in endgame are the one that's able to help you kill the enemy faster while doing the bare minimum to sustain. That's why sometimes you see a high end Acheron team playing Welt, she don't need that much sustain, because with Welt's help she can kill the enemy faster.
Seele is so powercrept that she successfully zero cycled MoC since 1.0
Tbh, I’m kinda glad someone actually posted something about this;
People like tectone keep shitting on selee, and because of that, people in that crowd are convinced that she’s dogshit, when she’s still useable, and in all terms, still viable for all the current content in the game.
Yeah, it’s harder to build selee than Acheron, but I just kinda wished that they were more vocal about pros and cons, and willing to say it more as it is, instead of just shiting on something through our own rose-tinted glasses.
She most definitely got powercreeped by like almost every single DPS that has come out and tbh the only reason she is still meta is because there is no other quantum DPS character (except QQ but it depends on who you ask on whos better between the two) once another 5-star quantum DPS comes out shes cooked 100% immediate mid A tier especially considering the powercreep in HSR and if the content keeps getting harder as is she might drop even lower since its already hard enough to proc resurgence often without bronya/sparkle + high investment if that stops being reliable she’ll be one of the worst 5-star DPS’s which is given since she is the first limited 5-star in the game shes gonna get powercreep to that extent eventually
All that is spot on, still techtone has bad take’s so I don’t wanna take him seriously.
The same guy who likes to rage bait just to stay relevant in a way.
not rlly iirc tectone said shes still good, acheron is just way more better
@@zerovking7629 Seele got so powercrept, that she's one of the few characters in the game, that can one turn kill most MoC 12 bosses at e0, with sustain on the team.
There's no bad characters, there's only bad players
@@zerovking7629 Yeah couldn't have said it better, if she does her thing then S tier prob best 0 cycler, if not then her dmg output is terrible compared to anything else. Extremely hit or miss unit
Your point about Seele being one of the fastest DPS characters in the game is so TRUE! I don't know how many times people disregard the fact she can abuse turns in a TURN BASED GAME.
Any character that can move multiple times in Turn based games have a lot of potential, and Seele's damage lacks in return compared to other damage dealers.
Also ty for the small shoutout lol xD
The thing is that we already have characters like Bronya and Sparkle who make you move just as much as seele while still being able to keep their high damage
I really want to main her back, but this time seriously, like optimizing every part of her and knowing exactly how she works, looks like a very fun character to main
Make more of these cause my lord is this a golden video!
Holy IYO! Love your content man, can't believe you watched my video. Much love and appreciate the compliment ♥
@@natsan18 I’ve lowkey been binging your content since the Blade vid got shown to me. 💀 Your discussion content is music to my ears. I love this stuff!
@@Iyoverse damn... never felt more proud in my life. I won't let you down dad.
Clicked on a random video and you just metioned your Blade video which i really really liked and realized ive been watching you for a while. Nice videos man, just subscribed
I still skipped Acheron and continued using Seele, I'm F2p so i feel like pulling for Fu Xuan would be good for my mono Quantum team since i already have SW and bronya, Yes Acheron is waaaaay better than Seele but that's also the reason why i skipped, playing Acheron felt like putting the game on Easy mode.
If you're not tryharding you can make any DPS work as long as you enjoy the character
Using Seele e0s1 to this day, mono quantum team of SW, Sparkle and Fu. Sparkle has her LC, pushing my build on Seele to 100% crit rate with 199.9 crit damage and just a bit over 3500 attack before buffs. She did 4 cycles on second half of latest MoC which is great in my book given that this fight is not in her favor at all.
Seele is fine.
as the first limited dps unit, she's in a much better spot than if she was in many other games that end up doing powercreep for monetization / revenue. also i feel like that on top of being the first limited unit ever in hsr while also using one of the most universal relic sets, it can be safe to assume that a lot of people will have her built by now, especially since sparkle was the final piece a proper mono quantum team.
overall fun vid and you explain things well
I personally don’t care what anyone says about selee. She’s still my favorite character and I use her till this day in MOC. She’s still my most invested character and I love her kit. And all those I have Acheron and jingliu I still picked her for MOC 12 and 3 stard it
I mean you already invested to her so logically speaking you should use her. It would be a waste if not
from what I've seen Seele mains are rather classy when it comes to meta-discussions. They admit that other characters are stronger than her (namely Acheron and Jingliu), but still point out her upsides and ceiling if properly invested.
Side note: I think the notion of Seele needing an "insane" amount of relic investment is a byproduct of Seele Mains being upfront about it from the get go because the other DPSs (except Jingliu and Acheron) hit like a wet noodle without the same high level relics as well but that is hardly mentioned for them. Also Quantum domain was by far the best domain to farm until the dot set came out (now thoses two are tied).
All in all I am perplexed seeing so many doubters about an arguable Top 3 Dps in the game
Seele still works, I used mine side 1 this abyss. The issue is everyone’s sort of kind of built Seele isn’t good enough anymore. I know people still are using the artifacts they got the first month and haven’t tried to improve them at all.
Thank you for your efforts providing this kind of analysis. All the best!
I think it's also good to account that there may not be many 0-cycle videos for characters outside of 5 stars as much due to their popularity. a ton of ppl pulled and spent money on Seele's banner on debut, so it'd be natural there'd be a ton of recorded documentation of her capabilities. (btw she's great, i use her--- but i just wanted to point this out)
this might also be why the 1.0 dpss' are sometimes accounted as power crept into the 'unusable' category, as ppl may be comparing characters based on how much investment they need (which feels weird as the gap usually isn't big if you invest equally) of course, this will definitely change as more dps characters come out, but it isn't a reality just yet.
Yea but some characters just that good in 0 cycles compared to others, thats why u still see selee in every patch doing it while not other dps shortly released after her, like JY, kafka and blade.
The thing is like the luocha situation
If you already have her then sure but not worth pulling on her anymore
just like blade.
Just like Jingyuan
@@Ikaretayaroudaze only one i see stayn relevant is jingliu and argenti
@@ranges787 Argenti maybe cause they have to release another physical erudition to make him irrelevant. But Jinglu is most likely getting powercrept by Sam cause Firefly literally has Fire implant in her base kit and is a Destruction character, so yeah
@@Ikaretayaroudaze i see jingliu stayn relevant vs any moc with ice weakness forever. and i doubt that they will make another ice dps like her in a long time. same with acheron and sam i doubt that they will ever get irrelevant
On the topic of 0 cycles, E0S0/E0S1 Seele has always been the one to do it with low gold cost and/or with a sustain compared to other limited 5 star dpses according on bilibili. This is the first MoC where she cant because Aventurine mechanic completely counters her. However, according to leaks, e1s1 Robin can help Seele achieve 0 cycle against Aventurine. Even if we ignore 0 cycles altogether, ive seen e0s1 seele clear aventurine within 4 cycles on yt. This is pretty impressive considering the fact that theres no trash mobs ( no uptime on resurgence) and she cant win the gamble (loses dmg %).
Her pasive really lock him behind from other meta character, and you need heavely invesment to unlock his pasive to work properly and when compare to other character with the same invesment they do better than seele
PPL keep saying she will fall off but almost a year later she's still good. I dunno guys im starting to think she wont fall off.
Seele is the only 5-star I haven't used for the past 6 months+
robin can definitely bring seele up a lot in terms of dps. Looking forward to trying the 2 of them together
I think Seele will will make a comeback with Robin.. Since Robin can help Seele to get her resurgence proc..
I think the not so good reception Seele has been getting has to do with her not feeling very good to play(if u miss a crit, or fail to even get your resurgence she feels pr bad). Since calcs are usually extremely sus in hsr, ppl like to go off feelscrafting to judge a unit. And if a unit doesn’t “feel” good to play, then ppl will just very easily brush them off. This is why Blade, a unit that u said yourself was mid, still had relatively good community reception because he was just that comfy and easy to use.
I barely use her but I used to use her a lot for her technique to skip the bugs when I was doing the main story in space station, before I got Acheron and insta killing enemies now deleting em from existence and not having to worry about fights. Nowadays I only use Seele in simulated universe and she is pretty nice there but other than that she isn't you need AoE nowadays in everything and new bosses and content. The only thing I think Seele needs is for her resuguarance to be an enhanced skill that doesn't consume a skill point.
its so refreshing to hear good things about my favorite character
To me zero cycling should not be the metric. I have an E1S Seele with a quantum 4pc, around 90/190 crit ratio and atk boots, but even with S1 Sparkle and another S+ support (or SW) she sometimes feels clunky and she works best in very specific content. Maybe it’s a skill issue, but my Seele struggles against enemies like YQ, with his stupid swords. And missing crits really sucks. It’s completely anecdotal, but I don’t enjoy doing runs with her as much as I do with my Kafka dot teams, Acheron or even Blade, who is not the fastest, but so consistent. So she might not be powercrept per se, but she is not as comfortable to use and I feel she needs way more pampering and baby sitting than other dps’s. And that makes me use her less and less.
yeah, that's a skill issue I've 0-cycled old MoC 11 and 12 YQ with an abundance LC using an e0 seele, e1 bronya, e6 tingyun and e3 pela with no 5-star LC's. However, recently I prefer using Dhil or Ratio since they're so much easier to play even if they clear slower.
1 Hit Damage types tend to have the "50-50 Crit Debuff" regardless of the ratios.
Like Clara, Dr Ratio, Dan Heng, Seele and Qingque.
as someone who has used seele since day 1 i can say that she is criminally underrated she is that one dps that has been able to keep up with everyone else people state that she is powercrept because its like the woody and buzz lightyear picture where andy has gotten a new toy that's the same with seele the moment a new dps comes out they instantly assume that the previous dps's are bad now Seele is still very good there are better options but id say she is worth it to pick up if you want at least she isint like a regret pull that just depends on you unless they release an Insane Support that targets mostly Hunt units i think seele will at least go down to High A and stay there
Yes like most people commented here: Seele needs a certain amount of investment to pop up but she is to this day stull my to go DPS for how comfy Mono Quantum since I can just slot this team whenever on a stage and the other side can use some of my other high end DPS unit like Acheron, Jingliu, Ratio or even Clara
I feel like seele takes too much investment to be competitive with newer units, i have her e0s1 and my dhil was overpowering her with the spare musketeer pieces i had and aeon s5
Seele is underrated true. Best DPS in the game.
My based Queen
Yo, you're here, you think that she can 0 cycle Aventurine with E0S1 supports? I don't, so prove me wrong once again, also Bronya Eidolons are allowed even her LC superimpositions,but only Bronya, No E1RUAN or E2SPARKLE, gud luckkk!!!!
@@Ikaretayaroudaze I'll try
Cope
That's the mental right there, ur fav will always be ur best. For me, Jing Yuan is the best.
I think a problem with Seele is that her Talent has a strict trigger condition, so for most of the time she effectively don't have a talent, where as other characters' talent is online most or all of the time. Further more, Seele's Ascension 1 trace is effectively useless, she don't need to decrease her aggro, she isn't Yaqing where she loses buffs if hit.
this video made me go back to my e0s1 seele, feel sorta bad i stopped using her, and put her set pieces back on. Gonna even top out her traces now (even though that should have been done a while ago. a loooooong time ago)
Even now as long as you have a good Seele she can comfortably clear every content on the game
It's all about enemies - For a while I also thought that Seele was left behind to a point I mostly left her out of my team for Qingque, but that's because game tailored new content to new units that focused on AOE.
Few patches later and my Seele can clear last MOC floor in 2-3 rounds, while my Blade team struggles to not excess 20 turns left limit.
Kinda wish that at the current state of the game, her ult is changed to also trigger resurgence instead of just letting her enter the buffed state. So she gets to ult under the buffed state then gets an extra turn. If the ult gets a kill, she gets to resurge. If the extra turn also gets a kill, she gets another resurge(maybe under an eidolon or smth) so her full combo can trigger upwards of basically 5-6 actions. I don’t think it’ll be completely busted given that she only gets all these extra turns if she can get a kill which unless there are plenty of adds like in PF she won’t be that much more effective than she is now. It’s just that the scope of abilities the current roster and newer units have compared to what Seele is able to do as a day one unit is getting quite glaring. But HYV did do a great job at maintaining her niche and strength.
Those saying Seele is power crept simply don't know how to use her to her full potential or have underwhelming relic stats. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending but i honestly believe it's 'skill issue'. She can still do her job really well, only difference that she has compared to other hyper carries is she needs higher investment & some setup. She's the most reliable quantum dps we have in the game as of now. Seele will always have a place in the meta until another 'busted' 5* quantum unit is released that can take her place.
Yeah but pretty sure anyone would rather take a acheron then a seele
Is it even possible for Seele to get powercrept rn? Because there are no major quantum dps and no character can do what Seele can do.
Is it really a skill issue if what's holding them back is their relic luck?
Luck Issue
@@jak4290Acheron is annoying af to play with if you plan on using E0S0, because most Nihility units are made of paper and for some reason get targeted alot
Seele has always been my fav character and this video made me unbench her after such a long time thx lol
since my only DPS are seele and jingliu, with right support seele doing her job quite well, but when I checked other DPS at youtube other DPS just outperform seele and I was really sad... but at the end of the day I can clear most of game contents and keep saving for firefly :)
I'm a dude that got a e1 seele in 1.0 then dipped all the way till 2.1. All I want for her is to be viable in Moc and the new (Allegedly) upcoming single target content down the line (for at least a year or so) as an f2p.
new endgame mode got announced which hopefully means seele buff 🤞
the problem is my E0S0 Seele is doing 30k skill dmg with 2 harmony fully maxed out relic and talent and my light cone is yanqing signature, dont tell me i have build problem, some f2p doesnt have sparkle S1 and ruan mei E2, even i saw some f2p seele doing the same damage as mine wonder why she powercreep (my best selee dmg full buffed is 80k skill and 110k ult)
I love seele, have also been using her since her release. BTW, i never understood what RES PEN meant and what it does?
Enemies in Honkai Star Rail have a resistance stat to various elements.
If an enemy is weak to an element, then they have a 0% resistance to an element
If an enemy is not weak to an element then they have a 20% resistance to that element
And if an enemy is stated to have a "[element] resistance" then they have a 40% resistance to that element. Very rarely it's 60% though (like Cocolia's ice resistance)
These values translate to a value between 0.1 and 2 (an enemy with a 20% resistance would be set to 0.8) and finally we get back to elemental resistance penetration.
Elemental resistance penetrarion increases that value by a flat amount.
So if you're fighting a quantum weak enemy the value will be of 1, then Seele will add 20% to that increasing the value to 1.2 instead of 1 as a multiplier to all of her damage.
It's a pretty rare source of damage boosting so on average it is quite important.
х 1.2 damage
How much of the enemy’s quantum resistence she can ignore
Resistance Penetration? Meaning you deal more dmg to enemy
Finnaly someone commenting on her with a brain and not baised calling her bad cuz they cant make her work.
one of the bigger issues she has is that just like free 2 play universe hunt cone, if u cannot manage kills anymore, and dont have another characters to soften the blow. shes gonna fall off heavely. so powercreeps is quite a natural problem for her in a way. i been using seele since day1, and only the next dps i pulled for was acheron, with near perfect sub stat rolls. but still use seele for most of the work actually ironicly enough.
the resurgenge is where her kit mostly comes from, and if u keep the resetting up the advance forward and the extra kill energy and bonus action is also extra energy, procs of like crazy in shorts amount of time.
and also i think to many are just screenshothrny and only look and rate it only at that.
Great video
She’s still good because of the amount of speed. I love using her
One thing about Seele I think many don’t understand is that the buffed state actually lasts for more than just the turn you get from Resurgence. There resistance penetration and dmg % buffs actually last until the end of Seele’s next turn (assuming you don’t get Resurgence again).
Seele is good enough to clear any type of content in this game, she's just the least strong limited dps and i think ratio gonna be a more comfortable choice since he's really is a top tier single target
Seele is a character that was basically designed to become slowly obselete the longer the game goes on. Its very clear to see that the HP pools of enemies in both MoC and PF have been increasing very rapidly every patch and will most likely continue to do so (we can infer that from characters like Acheron being released). Seele is unique in the sense that she gets affected by this way more than any other DPS would because of the requirement for her to trigger resurgence. The HP pools of small mobs increasing to the point where Seele can't one shot, or maybe even two shot small mobs with her skill will be the end of her, and that looks to be inevitable at this point.
But it is also a fact that Relic Quality improves over time, so as Day 1 Seele players play the game and get better relics their damage should also be increasing. Unless it comes to a point where like you said it's impossible to one-shot a mob then she'll be a pretty timeless DPS since I don't think there will be a another until with a kill reset Passive.
When then time comes, sure, but as for now, seems not the case yet. Even 1 year after her release
@@aidanarmaggeddon Relic Quality has a ceiling, enemy HP doesn't.
Would disagree. This current moc with aventurine, all the elites/bosses has their hp raised by around ~20%. My e0s1 seele team with a sustain clears first half against cocolia/dinos in 1 cycle, whereas my mono quantum team can clear aventurine in 3 cycles.
Newer units will always be stronger, but stating that she was designed to be obsolete over time is forgetting that Sparkle released one patch ago and she is the biggest upgrade for her team because she was designed to fully complement her. That's not something mods would do if they really wanted to powercreep her completely. Instead, they're slowly implementing characters and modes to get even older characters still usable, such as Yanqing (or Arlan to an extent), whom with the release of Aventurine is becoming relevant again.
When they introduce mechanics that will make older units completely unasable, that's when it will make sense to say that the devs are going to take the Hi3 route.
I am a qingque main but i have had an E1 seele since launch (using the stellar sea lightcone) and my qingque is using the S5 peaceful day lightcone (identical base stats) with the same monoquantum team (E2 S1 sparkle, E0 S0 fu xuan, E0 tutorial silver wolf) Using nearly identical builds (but seele can use a crit damage body and still maintain very high crit rate)
They are both highly invested and i still prefer using qingque tbh. In this most recent moc on the first half my qingque can sometimes 2 cycle but garuntees a 3 cycle and seele always 3 cycles.
While i do think (from my experience) that qingque is still better i would never to as far to call seele bad, a 3 cycle is still very good.
The thing is that Dan jingliu and Acheron are just so much better, like my e0 s1 Dan with garbage stats is still hitting 120k per basic, and my e1 s1 seele, who I got F2P on her first banner, can barely do anything even with the same stats
My personal experience with her is that she performs worse than both my Qingque and Xueyi, making it so I have no reason to field her ever. I'm not sure what the issue is, whether it's the lack of her signature LC or a relic diff. I've tried playing her, really, but I can't reliably kill things to utilize resurgence fast enough.
As a bit of isolated, anecdotal data from the current MoC12 using my characters:
Qingque -> 3 cycles
Seele -> 7 cycles
I think Seele is still the beast dps in my Team, but the reason for that is not that Acheron is weaker, but my Seele is by far the best build char in my Team. In any kind of content i can rely on her and i think she even got a small buff with the release of sparkle.
My Seele is e1 and missing her light-cone, but Shushang speed> crit > break at e6 and swordplay s5 will usually get more turns when farming the hunt Cylex on the snow planes for resources and racing the two against each other for the fun of it. And yes, I read Susangs kit and wanted to see if she could be as fast a Seele so that was the focus of relic build. advancement thru break vrs kills (Seele breaking actually advance Sushang). now e6 Seele with her light con I am sure Sushang will be better of reading her book then readying her sword.
I would say for the upcomming Endgame Content that we'll get in 2.3 she will be more valueable again. That is, if you don't have other good single Target DPS' already and don't need to pull for Seele because of that.
I think comments aren’t an accurate estimate because the vocal minority would mostly ask for more while most players are fine with it
Objectively, she does less damage than current damage dealers. Can she still clear MoC? Yes.
This. There’s no reason to not admit that pure meta pullers shouldn’t get her. If you’re a fan you can still go for it.
Technically this only works for Acheron, Seele could 0 cycle both sides for every MoC ever, DHIL couldn't, so it really depends
@@satoukazuma2875 Yeah I feel this is only really true for the Acheron comparison, otherwise she's actually gets fairly close to the Destruction carries in terms of damage output *if played correctly properly managing her buffs and Resurgence. The biggest problem is how frequently she can get into Resurgence, which may become an issue in the future but isn't too bad right now. If we get 5-star version of Tingyun so Seele can have 2-turn ult rotations, that would just be insane (but that's not likely to happen for a while).
My queen carried me through 1.5 i gotta respect that
I mean, there another way to buff Seele is a support that give decent Additional DMG on attack like Tingyun. Since Seele take so many action the DMG could add up really quickly. Also it could help a lower investment Seele one-shot mob more constistency, the only thing that hindering newer player to use her. A character that have a counter that count the number of action the DPS take and upon reaching the threshold trigger somekind of attack/effect like how Adventurine and Blade talent work could also be very interesting. And they also work very good with FuA character like Topas, Ratio, Clara not just Seele 🔱
Robin seems perfect fit xD. Tho u need more investment (like E1S1) on robin so her bonus dmg can do good dmg.
FuA team no need as much investment on robin coz how often they attack, the bonus dmg piles up anyway. But if u E1S1 her, FuA comp will be insane
I got seele on her rerun completely by chance (literally 10 pity for no reason). I really wish I had clicked the topaz banner instead because I want her for a ratio-aventurine team and with the reruns coming and with firefly coming, I can’t justify pulling topaz for myself.
I do agree with the fact that seele is still good but she won’t be doing the same as newer and fresher units like Acheron dmg wise since she is a day one unit but as buffers keep coming she’ll still be decent to use for some situations or just be relevant in general
Welp they just confirmed new Endgame that is looking Single target focused so ya GG the Hunt path is finally getting its spotlight.
Yanqing hopefully.....
@@invertbrid lol he might actually be more useful then Seele now if you have MR Vibes.
@@The_CodFish69 definitely not lol. But yea hooefully new mode can mske him shine like herta, tho i doubt too
@@invertbrid not exactly if the boss doesn’t have adds and if they aren’t 1 shots then Seele is still useless unlike our Ice boi…
@@invertbrid don’t over look him with MR Vibe around people are 0/1 Cycling MoC with him now that he has a reliable shielder in Single Target fights be is definitely about Seele in DPS.
i guess its time to build my seele
I wouldn't, unless you're willing to farm Quantum for 2 months or more. Seele isn't bad but she needs so much investment that the best time to build her was Patch 1.0-1.2. The second best time, however, is now.
@@META_mahn 😥
She was objectively powercrept by multiple units. Doesnt mean she isnt viable anymore though.
One important thing I dont see anyone talking about is MoC turbulence favorings. Why are we using 0 cycling MoC as a "benchmark", when it always has a turbulence that is crafted to favor the newest units and their unique mechanics?
Similar story for PF buffs. Probably the best example is Acheron and the debuff spamming buff. No one uses that buff well EXCEPT acheron. In the absence of it, I dont see acheron being nearly as good as seele for pf
Well yes it does buff the current new 5 star unit, we're talking about a 1.0 dps, the very first unit in the enitre game. She has 0 cycled every moc with the turbulence. For one moc that does not mean much, but we're talking about every moc since release. They're plenty of moc buffs good for her and bad for her, yet she still cleared it. That can be used as solid data. The next moc will be 0 cyxled by acheron or selee regardless of the moc buff and they will continue to be. Also there have been plenty of moc where the buff only happens once at the end of the cycle, which is pretty bad and makes everyone stand a netural feild and they all perform how we expect them too. Moc turbulence is no were near a big enough impact, if we don't use 0 cycle as a becnch mark then what will we. Simulated universe, story bosses, farming? All of which are easy and mindless.
@@uyeah1234
Im not saying seele is bad, I’m saying the opposite. The newest dps will always look miles ahead of old ones because we don’t have any data for future MoC or PFs that don’t favor them. Seele is strong because we’ve seen her at her worst and she still performs well.
No one has tried being more creative in methods gauging character strength. I think there’s potential in gold and gears bosses of plane 1 and 2. You can use the pursuit dice to skip directly to them: nearly all blessings and curios can be removed from the equation. They are bulky, hit hard, have a variety of mechanics (testing flexibility), and you can fight them in the absence of a turbulence
She literally the only dps in game right now that has record of doing 0 cycle every MoC and 40k every PF, regardless of turbulance.
@@invertbridHere's the thing. Seele also has that record
Honestly why seele is "falling off" is because her single target kit(the hunt) with the abundance of AoE characters(foreshadowing Acheron...) All of the hunt, eurodition, got clapped by either the destruction, or nihility since we thought that nihility units are supposed to be a sub DPs kind of thing that will change an outcome for your main Dps. But I guess hoyo is literally going beyond that "nihility units are there to tamper with enemy capabilities"
And let's be real, acheron should've been a destruction. Not a nihility..
Jade a 5 star quantum is coming soon... a 5 star quantum erudition follow up.
btw her best support is still a 4 star tingyun now imagine when 5 star tingyun in 2 patches what seele will be able to do
Overall, Seele is still pretty good at average relic investment. But at high relic investment Seele is pretty much the best by quite a long shot. Xolze's channel has vids of Seele with very high relic investment and pretty much none of the other dps units competes with her. Not even DHIL or Acheron.
I started to feel the exact same way, my Seele is decently built yet she's very, very inferior to my Dr. Ratio. IDK if its because of the fact that I lack her Signature lightcone since I am using the Herta Store one.
Never seen it done without sparkle
1 idea of a support that would make Seele become overpowered: A support that summon "false enemy"
The event "Tides of Wave" give us a perfect example for Seele's best buff that allow to redirect "Overflow" DMG to other enemies. If there come a unit that can apply a debuff where dmg got redirect onto the debuffed enemy, or a buffer that create fodder enemies and allow "Overflow" DMG to accumilate and redirect it to the Elite/Boss. These buffer does not benefit Seele only but also help pure AoE character like Agenti or Jingyuan. I have this idea since the early games, and i thought they would not able to make such thing until the event, which give me hope that soon we will have such support for Seele, and she will once again conquer the meta.
Dan Heng IL, Acheron and Jingliu are some of the examples you gave that are better than her and they are much more versatile than her. Dan Heng IL will do big damage when you have 3 sp, Acheron will get a lot of ult dmg with nihility teammates, Jing liu cuts allies hp to make sure she has enough atk (which might even be an upside if you are using blade).
Another reason is that the only hunt lightcones she wants are the 5* light cones so it is definitely a higher barrier of entry if you are already using Cruising on Dr Ratio lets say. Seele pushing for very hypercarry playstyles is also a detriment while considering what teams to use in PF or MoC for example. Then what if we use seele as a subdps? Resurgence isnt as consistent since if the main dps is aoe the mobs might already be dead or if the main dps is single target there might be no good enemies to proc resurgence off. Frankly i think her best double dps team is with Jing yuan as Jing yuan's backloaded damage can go all onto the main enemy due to seele taking care of the mobs and Jingyuan skill not doing enough to kill usually.
Seele has no real synergy, any dmg buff or ult gauge increase is going to benefit any dps, but Acheron, Jing liu, blade and even the DoT units are all dps that have much greater synergy than her. The only one who also falls into this category is Dan Heng IL, but his playstyle is that if you can Enhanced Basic every turn, he WILL do consistent damage. Perhaps if we have a dps that gets buffed whenever an enemy is killed or a buffer that gives buffs on kill that she will start to really shine.
In such a resource intensive game like HSR, its just not worth building her right now. I still havent farmed a glamoth set for her because i have other units to raise
Also fuck that ruan mei break not proc-ing resurgence
"-she has an amazing relic set, she has extra turns with resurgence, she has a hot girlfriend,-"
liked. subscribed. shared. raised the banner in your name. marching at dawn.
Blade deserve his own buffer
Manifesting
Seele helped me to beat the swarm story boss who was a pain in the a## for a long time that boss had 40% quantum res
What's frustrating about seele is when she doesn't crit in her most important turns, the damage difference is humongous 😂
When the boss is low on health, weakness broken, seele is buffed by 2 harmonies, and then guess what... At that moment she doesn't crit 😂😂😂
Id recomend sacrificing c dmg for c rate for seele because of that. Makes her very consistent and actually quite strong even if her individual hits are less. My seele atm is at 75/150 ratio with the herta lc so she basically always crits even if its on the lower end of c dmg.
@@TheUnholyToast1 bro, even at 90% crit rate this seele behavior is still annoying. Seele's problem is more like the way she did the damage hits rather than the crit.
Her supports give her cdmg so idk what’s so hard to give her 100 cr.
@@akanakaa great idea! Let's prioritize 100% crit rate stat for seele
Theorycrafters do exist, there is KQM Star Rail
Disappear among the sea of butterflies
This surely won't age horribly when Boothill comes out! /J
I think something important to think about is that even if a character isnt the most "meta" or "bis", they can still be good. With enough love and the right characters you can still clear moc. If my copium ahh Argenti can, then your hyper invested Seele definitely can
Meta is fun and all, but it's kind of stupid when you think about it- and unfortunately is used to doompost characters based off personal bias a lot of the time
Another thing is niche characters will still have content to solo. Herta and Argenti will remain relevant in pure fiction, Fua will be good in MOC and SU.
And what people forget is META WILL change and maybe this is just Copium but there might be a time where Seele can actually fight to her fullest potential
@@darkerrex1442 Honestly yeah- look at how they've buffed Kafka and Jing Yuan.
I agree but I mean Argenti is super good at base lmao, he gets free 25 crit rate I remember? Not really fair for Seele to be compared to him since Argenti can stay at 50 crit rate then his own Planar set and Sparkle will just buff his crit dmg so no need investment while for Seele u at least want 90% to be consistent. Even with Fuxuan and Sparkle LC u still want 70% from artifacts which is not easy lol.
been using Seele for almost a year now, and she got powercrept by every new dps character (except Jing Yuan bro got none ☠☠) its pretty sad tbh
It's not all about how fast she can be, rather how quick she can kill the enemy with the least sp as posibile and what else brings to the table for a Hunt character.
She maybe be one of the strongest Hunt chatacters, but Ratio and Topaz can do her work just as good as her, even better sometimes because of their FUA's.
That's why I belive that once Boothill releases he will outshine her(not by much, just like Dr ratio) only for his skill alone.
Spoiler for those who don't know:Boothill's skill it's something like a Blade skill combined with TB's skill, I mean he taunts an enemy for 2 turns, gains a ton of damage and he doesn't need a sp for those 2 turns.
My take is she is just investment heavy compared to other units like Jingliu or Acheron. Her passive literally wont work if you lack the investment. If you make her work then good she isnt really a bad unit but also hard to reach her full potential
Pulling Seele on her rerun was by far the worst mistake i made in HSR so far. I was too obsessed by the vision of a mono-quantum team to think clearly.
Like, sorry, but i am not willing to put 3-4 months of farming into one character to maybe make her almost as usable as my Jingliu, or Acheron with similar supports after a couple days of farming relics. Even QQ is more effective when i give her Seele's relics... That's just not worth my time / investment.
But i still hope they introduce new good Quantum DPS soon, i have not given up on the dream yet and the base (SW, Fu Xuan and Sparkle) of the team is potentially very strong.
Nah fr idek why i pulled for her bro , she needs so much investment😭😭😭
Seele is still a solid character, but it is undeniable that she is falling further and further behind in the META comfort DPSs with even more damage and utility are released and the game increases the difficulty in favor of the new characters
At least Seele is incredibly fun to use in SU with hunt path. HSR becomes a Seele's-turn based game.
I feel like maybe my biggest Seele mistake has been tying her to mono-quantum.
I still enjoy her and clear but I've honestly never used her with RM or Tingyun.
RM arguable as she can steal kill but her buff expired on her turn indeed good for selee. But yea u should try tingyun.
All 5 star limited characters are good. They are not trying to Rick Astley you if you're paying Au$300 for a character. It will however depend on your current roster, what you want to synergize, how you like to play and do you like the character. I got my eyes on Jacqiao inbound!
wait until a new quantum 5 star dps arrives seele will go onto the standard banner
Tbh doesn't matter how bad seele gets I will still E6S5 her with all her possible future reruns
Because I love her entire existence in every universe. And after all, she was the only one who I spent more than 200 usd on (every others like blade, IL, acheron, blackswan and ruan mei usually only get 10-20 usd spent on them, and I failed to get her copy on her rerun during topaz banner :V so I'm stuck at E1S1)
Also if I got hanabi/sparkle I will just do the braindead mono quantum and auto run MOC (Acheron already able to 3 cycle aventurine with bad stats mono mommy)
Hear me out
This is pure speculation from me , but we might get a seele henshin (transformation like Dan heng)
From sampo in 2.0 we know that belobog is experiencing some issuee right now so we likely are going back
Furthermore , belobpg is the only place that doesnt have a blessed STATIONARY emanator , herta from herta space , King yuan from Luofu. Etc
Now the most PROBABLE CAUSE , Seele vollerei in HI3 has a weapon that she can use , its name? "path to acheron"
I believe acheron and seele are likely to be intertwined now as people have even confused them in some official arts. No less how Acheron is an emanator , and raiden mei from HI3 is a herscher.
It is likely that seele might get a transformation of some sort
IM SAVING UP FOR MY WOMAN!
Yeahsssssaasvhxchh. I need that henshin gimme the real Veliona🦋🦋
YASSSS SHE'S GONNA BE EVEN BETTER🤩
@@Ikaretayaroudaze WE AWAIT HER HENSHIN
@@IisLasagna i seriously wonder what they gonna do with her YESSS
@@DerpHut I got her in less than a week, she manages to carry me through pf bc I only have hunt bulit💀
don’t let Molly see this
2:06 She is collecting so much dust in my F2P account that i 0cycled MoC 12 with her... A F2P account 0 cycle without insane builds(no wind set Sparkle, no E6 TIngyun, no S5 Luka LC on SW and Danace3x being only S2).
Personally, i think the reason why people think Seele dmg isn't that impressive nowadays because aside from Jingliu and Blade SR has been releasing nothing but damage per screenshot characters
I mean... she is a good character, I've invested a lot in mine. but it's 'easier' to build other characters [acheron, jingliu] with lower investment. is she getting powercrept? yes, is she still viable? yes, would I recommend her over other dmg dealers? no, but in the end, it's best to play whoever you having fun with...