Just did my first shot based on this video. Using 1:4 Dektol and rather old pearl-finish fiber based paper. Shot in pretty much full sun. Citric acid 1/2 tsp to a quart of water, 40 Volume hair lightener (hydrogen peroxide) picked up at the beauty supply shop full strength. Very contrasty positive but it worked. Interesting thing is there's a texture on the highlight areas - like the bubbles of the H202. Going to try again with RC paper. Thanks for the instructions - very fun to experiment!
From a creative / artistic expression perspective, this approach raises some really interesting thoughts and challenges. Just like a Daguerreotype, there’s only the original, the one created in the camera and finished in the darkroom. Imagine if Man Ray or Edward Weston had made images like this? How precious they’d be!
Wow! Thank you so much for this video! I want to do paper positives for so long but all thé tutorials I have found on forums where too complicated. Now I need to try this with my pinholes
This is super awesome on a few levels. One, this means I can shoot photo paper using my RB67 (why it didn't hit me I could do that I don't know), two this also means I don't have to buy ultra fancy paper when I want to print any black and white slides either. Three, just starting to get my darkroom setup going so this is going to be a massive help.
Damn... I had so much issues with my bleaching process and I only found THAT video now. Citric acid... The missing part was sitting in my lab watching my frustration growing 😅Thank you 🙏🏿
Very very cool. I read a fair amount of recipes but they did not work. What is different in your method, is that acid and H2O2 are not mixed but alternated. Very convincing demonstration that this is the way to go.
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras What is the concentration of citric acid? I have Citric Acid powder and 6% Hydrogen Peroxide on hand. Do you think the 6% hydrogen peroxide will work?
@@jojocolina2412 Should still work, but would ideally take longer - perhaps twice as much or more, since he is using a 12% solution. Also, depending on your paper size, maybe take a larger quantity of it, to get around the probability of it exhausting quicker than same qty. of 12% solution.
Thank you for an excellent step by step up date to other Photography UA-cam videos, it's really good to see how Photography is a community of share know how.
Apart from the fact that the process and finished image that you have demonstrated is the best thing iv seen photo wise for a long time, i would say it compares and perhaps rivals the wet collodion process for effect, and is safer and cheaper to do. thank you .
Interesting... this made me think of two things. First, if you want to lower the contrast you should consider changing developers. I had similar contrast problems when using ortho-litho film in my 4x5. I eventually settled on HC-110 dilution F to get a lower contrast negative that's actually usable. Also, I remember years ago seeing a recipe by an Italian guy for reversing cine film. In his recipe he mixed the peroxide and the citric acid into a single bath. I can look to see if I still have the information somewhere. As for your instant camera, you probably could replace the liquid peroxide by the gel or cream type. That would essentially make a light goop that could be closer to the Polaroid stuff and easier to handle inside a camera.
I've seen the recipe you're talking about. I've had many issues with the acid mixed with the bleach. maybe i am missing something, but alternating between the two seems to be much more effective. As for the cream H2O2, that seems like a messy nightmare, but please report back if you have success with it!
This is incredible, really wish I could try it! Seems like the process is really reliant on being able to work under safelight. No darkroom for me. I’ve been thinking of trying to shoot “regular” paper negatives but shoving the paper into a tank and hoping for the best.
I was supposed to be releasing some tools to do this without a safelight around now, but the quarantine has kept me away from the laser cutter. look out for a video about some new products towards the end of this year. Self Developing Film Holders!
Hey thanks for going into this much detail! One thing I would like clarified, if you're willing: You said that your concentration of citric acid was that of tomatoes. Does that mean that you used the amount of citric acid per volume that is called for when canning tomatoes (since you mentioned that it was citric acid that was marketed for canning purposes)? Or did you mean you added enough citric acid such that the solution had the pH of tomatoes? Perhaps you could provide the actual concentration of the citric acid in the video's description.
You can mix the citrix acid and the peroxide and can save a lot of time during developing. For me the paper (8x10) gets completely white under one minute this way.
Wonderful. I'm going to give this a go. I've been wanting to do film reversal but the recipes are either really toxic or use sulphuric acid that you can't buy in the UK any more. I wonder if going back and forth a few times between acid and h202 with a slow film would work.
This is awesome! Do you still agree with your statement that there is no need for fixing? I was trying to figure out a way to shoot images at events and then process on site. I checked out the Harman Direct Positive Paper but since it is fibre based it would require fixing and washing which adds too much time and headache for a portable set up. This looks like a potential solution. Thanks for sharing your research!
Very cool. Looking into reversal processes for a potential summer project this year. Only thing that isn't specified is what paper you are using. Are you using multigrade or graded paper, if graded what grade are you using?
Thanks for sharing the tek, i am currently building my first pinhole and planning to develop the photos the same way.. I have some questions regarding the concentration of the citric acid and the h2o2. thanks in advance
Why dont you just combine the bleach and acid? Ive been using that for developing film positives as a bleach, and it worked okay up to now Great video!!!!
Hi! I am so intrigued by this process! Thanks so much for sharing this process, I am definately in! I have been looking out for a reversal product that only sells in the U.K and now I don't have to wish for it anymore. I was just curious as to your hydrogen peroxide bath? I have read that you use a 12% concentration, what are the exact measurements that you use, (water and hydrogen peroxide?). I know that his may be off topic but do you ever pre-flash your paper? I have worked with paper using a pinhole camera and the contrast can be a little much at times, I have never pre-flashed paper before and was wondering if you had any tips on that. Thanks again for sharing! Nicole
Hey Nicole, thanks for watching! I still owe you a Zine, just waiting for some scooby do style mail shuffling.... As for the process, I am using undiluted 40V crystal clear hydrogen peroxide, its a hair bleach. This is the amazon link: www.amazon.com/Stabilized-Crystal-Liquid-Peroxide-HC-50409/dp/B00TP1IZDE/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=40+volume+peroxide&qid=1574520135&sr=8-1 . I got mine for 9.99 at the local beauty supply place, but in a pinch you can get it from amazon for $20. As for pre-flashing, I think it will greatly improve the tones and effective ISO of the paper during the main exposure, but I haven't done all that much experimentation with it, and what I have done was pretty unsuccessful. I will absolutely try a few more times and make a video if I get some pleasing results from it. Also, if you leapfrog me and make a better process, I'd love to see it!
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras Hahaha No problem! Thanks for the link, I will first check to see if i can get it local before ordering. I might try the pre flashing this weekend and jump on the process as well. I will keep you posted!
citric acid mixed as indicated for canning tomatoes. I dont think it really matters, so long as theres enough. H2O2 is 12% - V40 strength crystal clear H2O2 from the beauty supply shop
nope, its just an a7 with a 50 1.2 nikkor. didn't realize that the shutter was too fast for the frequency of my fluorescent lights. will be aware of that in the future.
Do you ever get a sorta blotchy or inconsistent image? I have been experimenting with this on film for the past year and it sometimes looks like the emulsion is melting. Makes for a neat effect, but I was hoping for black and white slides. It does work well for making positives from old kodachrome though, it gets rid of the black layer, good for 8mm
I did dipped the negative to the acid and then HP. Doesn't bleached out. The acid seems to fix the the negs. Then I tried bypassing the acid. It works. But after fogging and redevelope it the image doesnt have contrast. Anybody have an answer? Thanks
citric acid should stop, but not fix the negative. I would try the dilution recommended for canning tomatoes by ball. I bet that if the acid is too strong, it will retard the action of the hydrogen peroxide.
I am facing the same problem. If I dip the image in citric acid, the H2O2 won't do anything. But I was wondering if its necessary to do citric acid part, while I still am able to bleach the images out only with peroxide. After bleaching, paper is all white..but in next development, even the bleached parts turns dark, which results in very dark low contrast positive
Having luck with the whole process until 2nd development. It’s just turns black with a very faint positive image. Tried weaker developer as well as less time for 2nd exposure
My best guess is that you aren't exposing the paper in camera nearly enough. The negative should be 2 or 3 stops denser than you would shoot for a paper negative. It really sucks up the light. I think of it as 'burning through excess emulsion'. Joe and I made some diagrams about it a while ago, one day we'll do a boring technical manual. for now, try increasing your exposure 3 to 4 stops.
Thanks Ethan for this nice video. I would like to ask what is the dilution of dektol, citric acid, and hydrogen peroxide? Can I use 3% hydrogen peroxide? I am not sure about our 12% here because it is milky-like in consistency. Thanks. For your time and looking forward to your next video with Joe.
thanks Reynaldo. Standard Print Dilution for the dektol, although I have learned that ilford multigrade developer works better since this video. Citric acid was diluted about as much as the ball packaging suggested for canning tomatoes. I can't remember exactly how much, but ultimately you can be within a wide range and still get exactly the same results. something like two tablespoons of powder per liter. As for H2o2, 3% wont do anything. It would take something like a day to partially bleach. you've really got to get 12% or higher. Look to find a beauty supply store that supplies hair salons. Or talk to your local hair salon.. Maybe you can convince them to sell you a bottle. I spent an entire day driving around albuquerque when Joe and I were working on this, going to every beauty supply store that wholesaled to hair salons to find this one. I remember it was a sunday, so there was only one place open way across town. Now I know that I can get it two blocks from my house if I go on a weekday. It's super common everywhere people bleach their hair. Also very cheap. I got a gallon for about $10. Sometimes Health food stores have it, but it tends to be very expensive there, although often in as high a concentration as 35%.
This makes the 7th video Ive watched and no one gives the formula for the reversal chemicals !! How strong is the hydrogen peroxide and how much!! Where do you get tha citric acid and how much do you use!!?? These are important facts!! Only beauty supply houses offer 12 persent but its full of conditioners for use on human hair!!
You area genius. This is an amazing process and also very cheap and with easy to find chemicals!
Just did my first shot based on this video. Using 1:4 Dektol and rather old pearl-finish fiber based paper. Shot in pretty much full sun. Citric acid 1/2 tsp to a quart of water, 40 Volume hair lightener (hydrogen peroxide) picked up at the beauty supply shop full strength. Very contrasty positive but it worked. Interesting thing is there's a texture on the highlight areas - like the bubbles of the H202. Going to try again with RC paper. Thanks for the instructions - very fun to experiment!
Interesting. I tried it w d76 stock and got a very low contrast positive.
Sorry, i am used to the metric system. quart of water = .... ml??
@@barryvanweldam9882 1 US quart = 946 ml (1 US gallon = 3,785 ml); 1 UK quart = 1,137 ml (1 UK gallon = 4,546 ml)
From a creative / artistic expression perspective, this approach raises some really interesting thoughts and challenges. Just like a Daguerreotype, there’s only the original, the one created in the camera and finished in the darkroom. Imagine if Man Ray or Edward Weston had made images like this? How precious they’d be!
Wow! Thank you so much for this video!
I want to do paper positives for so long but all thé tutorials I have found on forums where too complicated. Now I need to try this with my pinholes
Thanks for making the tutorial, this is the best video I've yet seen on reversal development!
This is super awesome on a few levels. One, this means I can shoot photo paper using my RB67 (why it didn't hit me I could do that I don't know), two this also means I don't have to buy ultra fancy paper when I want to print any black and white slides either. Three, just starting to get my darkroom setup going so this is going to be a massive help.
Damn... I had so much issues with my bleaching process and I only found THAT video now. Citric acid... The missing part was sitting in my lab watching my frustration growing 😅Thank you 🙏🏿
Very very cool. I read a fair amount of recipes but they did not work. What is different in your method, is that acid and H2O2 are not mixed but alternated. Very convincing demonstration that this is the way to go.
thanks! please let me know if you make any experiments with the process, I'd love to see what you come up with!
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras What is the concentration of citric acid? I have Citric Acid powder and 6% Hydrogen Peroxide on hand. Do you think the 6% hydrogen peroxide will work?
@@jojocolina2412 Should still work, but would ideally take longer - perhaps twice as much or more, since he is using a 12% solution. Also, depending on your paper size, maybe take a larger quantity of it, to get around the probability of it exhausting quicker than same qty. of 12% solution.
I've been intuiged by paper positives for a long time but this is the first I can see myself doing. Kudos for a good job and sharing this! :)
bro you're a genius. such clear explanations. we'll see how much I retain
Thank you for an excellent step by step up date to other Photography UA-cam videos, it's really good to see how Photography is a community of share know how.
Nice video ! Thank you for sharing. The process is disconcerting : all black, and then all white but the end result is way cool.
Apart from the fact that the process and finished image that you have demonstrated is the best thing iv seen photo wise for a long time, i would say it compares and perhaps rivals the wet collodion process for effect, and is safer and cheaper to do. thank you .
this is very cool - giving this a go asap
What's up @ribsy did you ever give this a try?
brilliant Ethan, a lot more tones in there than I would have thought, great result
Interesting... this made me think of two things. First, if you want to lower the contrast you should consider changing developers. I had similar contrast problems when using ortho-litho film in my 4x5. I eventually settled on HC-110 dilution F to get a lower contrast negative that's actually usable.
Also, I remember years ago seeing a recipe by an Italian guy for reversing cine film. In his recipe he mixed the peroxide and the citric acid into a single bath. I can look to see if I still have the information somewhere. As for your instant camera, you probably could replace the liquid peroxide by the gel or cream type. That would essentially make a light goop that could be closer to the Polaroid stuff and easier to handle inside a camera.
I've seen the recipe you're talking about. I've had many issues with the acid mixed with the bleach. maybe i am missing something, but alternating between the two seems to be much more effective. As for the cream H2O2, that seems like a messy nightmare, but please report back if you have success with it!
This is incredible, really wish I could try it! Seems like the process is really reliant on being able to work under safelight. No darkroom for me. I’ve been thinking of trying to shoot “regular” paper negatives but shoving the paper into a tank and hoping for the best.
I was supposed to be releasing some tools to do this without a safelight around now, but the quarantine has kept me away from the laser cutter. look out for a video about some new products towards the end of this year. Self Developing Film Holders!
It is neat to see this in your poster camers!
Blimey. I had no idea this was possible. Thanks a lot for the info.
Thanks dude
Hey thanks for going into this much detail!
One thing I would like clarified, if you're willing: You said that your concentration of citric acid was that of tomatoes. Does that mean that you used the amount of citric acid per volume that is called for when canning tomatoes (since you mentioned that it was citric acid that was marketed for canning purposes)? Or did you mean you added enough citric acid such that the solution had the pH of tomatoes?
Perhaps you could provide the actual concentration of the citric acid in the video's description.
I just did this yesterday with my 4x5 Crown Graflex. I really love the results it came out with.
You can mix the citrix acid and the peroxide and can save a lot of time during developing. For me the paper (8x10) gets completely white under one minute this way.
Awesome. I got to try this
Wonderful. I'm going to give this a go. I've been wanting to do film reversal but the recipes are either really toxic or use sulphuric acid that you can't buy in the UK any more. I wonder if going back and forth a few times between acid and h202 with a slow film would work.
Very cool process!
Pretty cool my friend, very cool!
This is awesome! Two years later, have you adjusted the way that you would approach this process?
That's amazing.
This is awesome! Do you still agree with your statement that there is no need for fixing?
I was trying to figure out a way to shoot images at events and then process on site. I checked out the Harman Direct Positive Paper but since it is fibre based it would require fixing and washing which adds too much time and headache for a portable set up. This looks like a potential solution. Thanks for sharing your research!
Hello, could you tell me if the bleach was diluted and was that a regular household bleach?
Very cool. Looking into reversal processes for a potential summer project this year. Only thing that isn't specified is what paper you are using. Are you using multigrade or graded paper, if graded what grade are you using?
When he is metering for exposure he states “old ilford multi grade rc”
Great stuff 😊👌, can you tell me how long the peroxide lasts? How many Paper sheets can you bleach till it’s out ?
Thanks for sharing the tek, i am currently building my first pinhole and planning to develop the photos the same way.. I have some questions regarding the concentration of the citric acid and the h2o2. thanks in advance
Wait so is the third bin literally bleach or the stuff that kills the rest of the unexposed silver salts?
Why dont you just combine the bleach and acid? Ive been using that for developing film positives as a bleach, and it worked okay up to now
Great video!!!!
Hi! I am so intrigued by this process! Thanks so much for sharing this process, I am definately in! I have been looking out for a reversal product that only sells in the U.K and now I don't have to wish for it anymore. I was just curious as to your hydrogen peroxide bath? I have read that you use a 12% concentration, what are the exact measurements that you use, (water and hydrogen peroxide?). I know that his may be off topic but do you ever pre-flash your paper? I have worked with paper using a pinhole camera and the contrast can be a little much at times, I have never pre-flashed paper before and was wondering if you had any tips on that. Thanks again for sharing!
Nicole
Hey Nicole, thanks for watching! I still owe you a Zine, just waiting for some scooby do style mail shuffling.... As for the process, I am using undiluted 40V crystal clear hydrogen peroxide, its a hair bleach.
This is the amazon link: www.amazon.com/Stabilized-Crystal-Liquid-Peroxide-HC-50409/dp/B00TP1IZDE/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=40+volume+peroxide&qid=1574520135&sr=8-1 . I got mine for 9.99 at the local beauty supply place, but in a pinch you can get it from amazon for $20.
As for pre-flashing, I think it will greatly improve the tones and effective ISO of the paper during the main exposure, but I haven't done all that much experimentation with it, and what I have done was pretty unsuccessful. I will absolutely try a few more times and make a video if I get some pleasing results from it. Also, if you leapfrog me and make a better process, I'd love to see it!
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras Hahaha No problem! Thanks for the link, I will first check to see if i can get it local before ordering. I might try the pre flashing this weekend and jump on the process as well. I will keep you posted!
Thanks for sharing! What are the concentration used of citric acid an H2O2?
citric acid mixed as indicated for canning tomatoes. I dont think it really matters, so long as theres enough. H2O2 is 12% - V40 strength crystal clear H2O2 from the beauty supply shop
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras Citric acid bottle says 1/2 tsp to a quart of tomatoes, so I just went with 1/2 tps to a quart of water.
Does not peroxide + citric acid have any detrimental effects on the paper itself?
Awesome, are you shooting video onto a larger format ground glass?
nope, its just an a7 with a 50 1.2 nikkor. didn't realize that the shutter was too fast for the frequency of my fluorescent lights. will be aware of that in the future.
Do you ever get a sorta blotchy or inconsistent image? I have been experimenting with this on film for the past year and it sometimes looks like the emulsion is melting. Makes for a neat effect, but I was hoping for black and white slides. It does work well for making positives from old kodachrome though, it gets rid of the black layer, good for 8mm
I did dipped the negative to the acid and then HP. Doesn't bleached out. The acid seems to fix the the negs. Then I tried bypassing the acid. It works. But after fogging and redevelope it the image doesnt have contrast. Anybody have an answer? Thanks
citric acid should stop, but not fix the negative. I would try the dilution recommended for canning tomatoes by ball. I bet that if the acid is too strong, it will retard the action of the hydrogen peroxide.
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras Thanks! Would try dilute the acid more and see
I am facing the same problem. If I dip the image in citric acid, the H2O2 won't do anything. But I was wondering if its necessary to do citric acid part, while I still am able to bleach the images out only with peroxide.
After bleaching, paper is all white..but in next development, even the bleached parts turns dark, which results in very dark low contrast positive
Whoa, are those yellow bands from some fluorescent lights?
yeah. I have a slightly better vlogging camera now, so sound and light should be incrementally better but still unprofessional in future videos
Having luck with the whole process until 2nd development. It’s just turns black with a very faint positive image. Tried weaker developer as well as less time for 2nd exposure
My best guess is that you aren't exposing the paper in camera nearly enough. The negative should be 2 or 3 stops denser than you would shoot for a paper negative. It really sucks up the light. I think of it as 'burning through excess emulsion'. Joe and I made some diagrams about it a while ago, one day we'll do a boring technical manual. for now, try increasing your exposure 3 to 4 stops.
Thanks Ethan for this nice video. I would like to ask what is the dilution of dektol, citric acid, and hydrogen peroxide? Can I use 3% hydrogen peroxide? I am not sure about our 12% here because it is milky-like in consistency. Thanks. For your time and looking forward to your next video with Joe.
thanks Reynaldo. Standard Print Dilution for the dektol, although I have learned that ilford multigrade developer works better since this video. Citric acid was diluted about as much as the ball packaging suggested for canning tomatoes. I can't remember exactly how much, but ultimately you can be within a wide range and still get exactly the same results. something like two tablespoons of powder per liter. As for H2o2, 3% wont do anything. It would take something like a day to partially bleach. you've really got to get 12% or higher. Look to find a beauty supply store that supplies hair salons. Or talk to your local hair salon.. Maybe you can convince them to sell you a bottle. I spent an entire day driving around albuquerque when Joe and I were working on this, going to every beauty supply store that wholesaled to hair salons to find this one. I remember it was a sunday, so there was only one place open way across town. Now I know that I can get it two blocks from my house if I go on a weekday. It's super common everywhere people bleach their hair. Also very cheap. I got a gallon for about $10. Sometimes Health food stores have it, but it tends to be very expensive there, although often in as high a concentration as 35%.
@@CAMERADACTYLCameras Thanks a lot Ethan. I will do as adviced.
Btw, you use 12% straight? Without dilution?
This makes the 7th video Ive watched and no one gives the formula for the reversal chemicals !! How strong is the hydrogen peroxide and how much!! Where do you get tha citric acid and how much do you use!!?? These are important facts!! Only beauty supply houses offer 12 persent but its full of conditioners for use on human hair!!
Would Dichromate bleach work , as for reversing film?
It would probably work better, just be more toxic
a consultation, my good friend, what is citric acid for?