Steam Locomotive Repair - Steam Pipe Rings
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2016
- Another repair on the 1917 Vulcan Iron Works narrow gauge locomotive at the Georgia Museum of Agriculture in Tifton, GA - this time to a leaky steam pipe ring in the smoke box of the locomotive. The old steam pipe rings were removed along with a steam pipe and new steam pipe rings were made on the metal lathe to replace them - as well as a jig to hold the steam pipe rings as they are lapped to fit the sockets that they fit into.
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I hope the museum realizes how lucky they are to have a resource like you. I don't mean to embarrass you, but you really are their go-to guy for so many things.
Lathes have always fascinated me but I never got around to learning how to use them. I enjoyed the entire video. Thanks,
Mate, do it! You ain't never too old to learn. I bought my lathe when i was 55, and my mill when I was 58, and I',\m still acquiring tools: just bought a three-axis CNC router to make a kitchen, and I'm pushing 70.
Don't wait.
That's a nice way of lapping the pieces, should be fast and efficient.
When building sewer treatment plants, I always enjoyed working with the large ...8"-16"... ductile iron piping and fittings. It was just a pleasant day's work when you could stand back and admire your accomplishments...and my employees where happy too! (happy employees, happy contractor). I know that your ductile iron material and what we used are different, but it looked like your proper tooling and the ease of working with it made for a pleasant day of volunteer work. You did a great job, and thank you for your videos!
....13
Keith, you are an artist. The job you are doing here is just AMAZING.
What a great video just goes to show you that things they did in the old days are so clever and smart we still use them to this day. Great do Keith
Very cool that you get to use those old techniques and rediscover the methods of our past! Thanks for sharing this with us, Aloha...Chuck
Good job Keith, there are not a few joints on a steam locomotive that are hand lapped, done some myself. It is always satisfying to apply old techniques and experience how effective they are.
Informative as usual Keith. Shows our ancestors knew ingenuity and how to make things work. If ever we take a giant leap backwards the reference material you high lighted is always relevant in many other aspects and elsewhere the need may arise. Thanks.
Locomotives are an unending source of work to keep them going obviously. Good work making the rings and the lap tool. Keep on keeping on.
I could easily spend the equivalent of a full time job just working on the locomotive....
Thank you very much Keith, I enjoy watching your videos to help me learn how to better design engineered components for easier machining.
I always had the curiosity to know what was behind the bulkhead , now I have a clearer idea of how to operate the steam locomotives , kate as always thank you for sharing your work and thank you again for the charming notions that you add in video .
A technique still used today. Lapping. But an impressive amount of work to get to that point. Thanks for sharing.
I am really glad you make these. Always interesting to see old machines like these being taken apart and repaired.
Very interesting project, the old books came in handy.
I'm a few years late, but I just got to watch this video. Years ago when I took a course in auto mechanics, I still remember about lapping new valves unto their seats in the heads of a V8 motor.
When I was a young lad my neighbour had a car repair workshop where I worked in school holidays, mostly for interest and to learn a bit. When lapping in cylinder valves the spindle would be turn run back and forth between the palms of the hands then rotated about 90 degrees, never spun with a drill, (which we had even then). I believe you got a better finish although it was harder work. Originally this is how that engine would have been done - by hand.
Very often lapping was done by hand. But, I found a reference to it being done by means of power all the way back in 1915!
I'm not sure which impresses me more, the fact that all this was figured out over 100 years ago and still is applicable today or that they had the foresight to write it all down in books for future reference?? Either way that is awesome.
Nice job Keith, here in the UK we use what is known as a "navy union" for steam connections, the mating surfaces have a brass insert ring cast into both mating surfaces and they are both soft enough to make a steam tight connection when tightened up and as the union gets hotter and expands the surfaces become ever more tight.
I'VE NOTICED IN THE VIDEOS WHERE YOUR EITHER TURNING MATERIAL THAT YOU DONT COVER THE WAYS OF YOUR LATHE
, ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR VIDEOS
You make it look easy as always. Thanks Keith
I look forward to Keith's videos as much as I look forward to my favorite TV shows!
It is easy to imagine steam boilers and engines to be simple, old, unrefined machines. At the latest, when listening to your discussion of something that would seem so trivial as a steam pipe connection it becomes apparent that there is a lot engineering that goes into these machines. Even the little Wilesco toy steam engine I loved as a kid had its share of issues, many of them similar to the ones on big engines. Thanks so much for clearly explaining the intricacies of these wonderful old machines!
one thinks of steam as simple, and thus easy to make and tolerances as slack, in reality, theres a whole lot of precision, machining, valves to make, pipes to seal, and pressure to deal with, none of that is for casual sloppy backyard bodgers!
Indeed. Just because its old doesn't mean its poorly engineered or made.
By the 1900's, steam was a very mature technology. The only crudeness was due to machining limitations (and not much of that by 1917), not engineering. To think what was accomplished with slide rules and manual machines is mind boggling.
Don't forget; they had to transfer the power to the drive wheels somehow. And to the generator. And to the compressor, for the brakes. Some engines even provide(d) steam heating to passenger coaches. Some still do, like over in the United Kingdom...I think.
The engineering that went into these old steam engines is amazing to me - all figured out by people who for the most part had nothing to go by - they just made it up and refined things as the went along. Amazing! And if you think these guys were not technical back in the day, just get some of the old engineering books that I have on steam engines and just see how much they did know!
Thumbs up Keith.
Very nice video. Thanks for sharing
Nilton Polydoro
It's nice that you can add to the body of knowledge about how to repair these antique machines and help people in the future. Good work.
This is such cool stuff Keith.
Thanks for posting this.
I think you are pretty much everybody's favorite shop teacher !!!
Thank you!
Absolutely fascinating insight to the challenges they faced being steam engines, great video.
Amazing contents - and you, sir, are a great teacher! Thank you for post!
That useless, waste of time, Friday morning meeting was CANCELLED. So, I can watch STEAM LOCOMOTIVE VIDEOS.
YEAH. Nice video Keith and the historical and engineering info was great; very interesting. If I could give it TWO thumbs up, I would.
Thanks John!
An excellent job of explanation at the beginning of this. I had no idea what a steam box was a half hour ago and I felt like I totally understood it by the time you fired up the lathe.
And again a job well done Keith.
Looks well made. Got some cryogenic valves at work needs some touching up. I'm going to borrow you wisdom. Thanks and thanks for sharing.
I've said it in another vid but I'll say it again, you are a gifted individual!
Another great video - thanks Keith.
Cheers, John
Absolutely beautiful job Keith. Keeping the old new again! Thanks for sharing... fred
Good video Keith. I learn something new nearly every video you make. Keep up the good work...
As always, great work Keith. Love to see these old techniques being kept alive by good folk like yourself.
Great work Mr. Keith!
Hey Keith! I really enjoy your videos. I learn much and they have given me a great deal of confidence for my home tinkering (I am a healthcare executive, so I do this tinkering as a hobby). Thanks for your cool and steady way, and your teacher's heart. I imagine that these videos are work to produce. Thanks for putting in that work. I watch all of them as they come out. Very very useful, and relaxing for me to "be in the shop" with you as you teach.
very nice job,love to see your library
I finally caught up on all the videos, now I can spend more time in the shop.! Also loved the 2" bit; I recently picked up a free 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" on a MT4 shank- what a monster! Thanks for all the videos, past and future!
Steam (just like water) is a powerful etchant when passing through tiny openings. I read somewhere that the process is similar to cavitation etching on marine propellers (not prop aeration, which is something else). As it passes through a pinhole at high speed, the water actually turns to vapor momentarily at low-pressure points and when it returns to liquid it slams into the metal since the liquid is incompressible and actually blasts tiny particles of metal from the surface. Steam, of course, is already in vapor form, so as it passes to cooler, lower-pressure places in the pinhole leak it condenses directly to liquid with the same slamming effect. This is why you need nice wide, good-fitting contact surfaces in water and steam valves and joints. (And why you need to keep them in good repair.)
What causes the steam to be abrasive is the water droplets in the steam. Unless the steam is superheated it is very difficult to keep it dry. Any heat loss at all will cause the steam to begin to condense. This condensate form tiny droplets of water and with the velocity of the steam flow these droplets act like sand. The low pressure end of turbines for instance, are always dealing with wet steam.
Keith, a great video. I know nothing of locomotives but enjoy watching/learning from your videos. And I learned a lot.
Bob
nice work Keith
very interesting again. they must be so happy with you at the museum! cheers.
another great video Keith!
Thanks Keith, really enjoyed the video!
Another great video, Keith. Interesting that you were referencing material that was written some 125 years ago.
I just love that!
I'm glad you had a reason to not have to crawl into that smokebox and lap those out. Hopefully they found someone smaller than you are to do that! :-)
Fortunately for me, I was out of town the week that they did that! Don't you just love it when a plan comes together!
Wonderful to see the time honoured skills in use .. thank you for sharing with us. Greetings from New Zealand .. we have a few steam locomotives here too.
Thanks for the video, Keith. Interesting as always.
If you google "exhaust pipe ball joint", you will learn that the principle is widely used on exhaust systems on cars.
It was fascinating to see that plastic/perspex material be machined. It is so strange to think you can work something other than metal in a metal-working lathe! However, I have heard that carpenters can use a wood lathe to turn brass and gun-metal pieces, so... Very strange and very interesting to see!
Many thanks as ever Keith!!!
I have done quite a bit of plastic work on a metal lathe. I have also cut wood on a metal lathe. Never had to cut metal on a wood lathe, but only because I have a metal lathe.....
Another fantastic save!
Very awesome Keith , Thumbs up !
Thanks Keith very informative and enjoyable.
Well done video, informative, thanks Keith.
Wonderful repair job Keith, and thanks much for the increased insight about what goes into keeping these mechanical marvels working and operating. What really caught my eye was that book you referenced to, published in the 1850's to illustrate the problem that ground steam pipe rings were created to address.
Using a grinding wheel during lathe work! That was pretty improvisational, but also ingenious to turn a simple convex radius since the museum's Lodge & Shipley lathe doesn't have a tracer attachment. That radius looked too big to try and grind a custom high-speed tool to cut it. I'm thinking the stick-out would have been excessive had that been tried and so there would have been unsolvable chatter problems. Slick setup meanwhile for doing the facing of the mating surfaces inside the smokebox. ^^
Some people have said that my method would not be precision enough for the job but since I am lapping the two curves together, it really just does not matter. Sometimes you have to get creative to get a job done! Truth is, I got the tip on doing it that way from another guy who does locomotive repair work - it works for him!
you're doing amazing stuff, keep on.
Really nice video, very informative.
One word of caution, that type of universal joint can kink under power. When it does, it will Jerk the drill right out of your hands, and possibly Injure you. preferably, use a Wobble extension, or a impact universal joint. These will limit the amount of bending that is possible and is much safer to use. If neither is available, Put a stiff rubber hose around the Standard universal joint, so that it will not allow it to bend to the point of Locking up. a standard universal joint will work fine as long as it's fairly straight. There's a point where these universal joints or more of a nuisance/safety issue that I would like. Even used by hand, No power tools involved, they can be a nuisance. Having an impact universal joint in your toolbox is highly recommended. Even if you don't have air tools.
stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
Keith, We used to call lapping compound "Magic" grease.
Great vid Keith.Always love your lathe and mill projects,especially when you make tools.Sure beats using a keyboard all day.
Hello Keith,
Great video and learned again a bit of the locomotive, things you normally never hear or see so detailed. Hope there come more of this kind video's about repairs on the locomotive. Always like that old technics they used and especially the way you explain it how it works.
Looking forward to the next video and many greetings from Roel !
Thank you!
Very very interesting I really enjoyed watching you, what you did and how you did it.
Thank you again, another great video!
Very informative, thanks for the video. I especially enjoyed that monster drill bit!
When I saw it, I was thinking that 2" drill bit gets it's own toolbox!
Keith, very interesting setup for lapping the the two parts together. Also thanks for the lathe machining tip for putting a slight radius on parts using a sanding disk and angle grinder. Regards, Paul
I had no idea steam would erode iron like that.
Thanks Keith.
When it is forced though a tiny hole, it is just like a waterjet!
We're not ramping down, we're just getting started, nothing stops this train.
This is so awesome. I have flange coupling theory as homework today and today only, so I'm basically doing homework by watching this video!
Works for me!
love the videos nice job need to come back down and ride again
good video. excellent information
It was amaing what capabilities and insights the engineers had 100 and more years ago.
Indeed!
Thank you very much I'm just getting involved with the IRM in Union,in the steam shop,will be a couple months but what a cool place and great guys.
Very cool! I visit IRM each year for the annual "ArnFest" event that is held there. This will make year number 12 for me I think. I should be around on Fri - Sat, Sep 30-Aug 1. Been on the steam shop tour many times - you guys have a great shop there!
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Nice work. Cast iron and delrin - good materials to work on the lathe. When I have needed to put a radius on a small part without the right size radius tool, I have cut a hole with the right radius in a piece of 3/4 plywood, cut the ply with the hole into suitably sized blocks and glued pieces of emery paper into the concave sections. These concave blocks, with successive grits can then be used to radius and polish the part. Works well if the part does not need too much material removing. Best wishes
I was basically eyeballing the original one that had the correct radius on it. I though about making a template, but I just did not think it was necessary.
nice work ... thanks for the video..
Hi Keith,
Thanks for a super interesting video, just a shame we couldn’t have any of the lapping stuff but anyone who has rebuilt an Car Engine will know what it happening and there is not I would imagine too many that have not done this or done it themselves to a car engine. There’s room to see on those engine’s, whereas there is almost zero room to film anything that will enlighten those who do not already know the procedure.
I was not in town when they lapped the pieces together. Well, I did see about five min of the operation as I was heading out of town one morning, but it was nothing super interesting. Very tight quarters, I am not sure I could have filmed it even if I had wanted to....
awesome video keep up the good work
Interesting job thanks Keith
Intake manifold gaskets for a steam engine, made in the manner of ground unions, and for the same reasons. Another nice job, especially the lapping arrangement. I hope the crew kept the abrasive out of the passages to the cylinders, else upcoming videos will show Keith boring new steam cylinders on the K&T!
Yes, we stuffed rags down there and cleaned things up very well when done!
nice job keith
useing new/old knoglage
keep up the good work
Good job as usual.
nice work
very interesting,
this kind of recuperation is much more brain work than the initial fab work.
lapping is mostly needed due to wear and corrosion, the new parts being straight and pitting free.
excellent refurbishing work
Thank you!
Great Video Keith!! Love the 1917 Vulcan Iron Works Steam Videos ... When she is all spruced up You'll have to get 1917 to 2017 ~ 100 year Celebration photograph of all of you that keep her running ... Be a nice historical photo for the Museum wall :-)
I wish we could give her a nice paint job before then, but I just don't know how we will be able to.....
Thanks for the video Keith. My short time as a machinist mate in the navy taught me to never check for super heated (600ppsi) steam with any part of one's body. A broom stick was usually used. Small leaks couldn't be seen just heard. It would cut into the stick rather quickly when found. Scary. Cheers.
A good friend of mine who was a pilot in the Navy told me the same thing - when he was on a ship, they used a broomstick to find the leaks!
nice job !!!
Looks good! There are times when I feel I need my pipes lapped. Well, I knew there were special fittings for steam like the tubes were swedged (or how ever it's spelled). Oh well, bricklayers usually used a concave joint between courses to help seal the mortar joints but that's another story. Greg
GREAT VIDEO !!
Keith: Most people do not understand the engineering and knowledge that people like you have to have in order to fix this equipment. When people go to a mechanic to fix their car for instance they don't consider those things. So let's give credit where credit is due.
Great vid, thanks!
I love seeing this repair stuff on UA-cam.
Thanks!
AvE just gave you a shout-out in his latest vijayo!! He was singing the praises of your long-format videos and your excellent repository of all things old and cool! Expect a few new subs soon!
That's how I got here too
Very awesome!
nice project there
Very nice job, thankyou Keith!
It would be interesting to see how the lapping went, maybe you could twist someone's arm to take some pictures before it all goes back together again...
The lapping is done but they have not put it all back together yet. I will try and get some photos or video this week.
This is so cool, the inards of a train engine...cool stuff
Keith,
Good job on the video. That ductile iron and Delrin are nice materials to machine. I seem to get my best finishes on those two, as well as brass. :-)
Cast iron is actually one of my favorite materials to work with!
I can't believe you touched that beautiful old book with those dirty hands !
should he touch a dirty book with clean hands?
It's a grimore. You can see the eldritch spirits escaping when he opens it.
+jusb1066 hahahahaa well said!
LOL - I actually washed my hands first, but they were stained from working around the stuff on the locomotive. I have a hard time getting clean after working on the locomotive....
Interesting video, Keith. Thanks for sharing.
Everyone else has already made the comments that I was going to make, but thanks again anyway.
Joe
G'day Keith I found this very interesting and you explained very well, you showed how hot steam gets to by the indentations on the seal. Thank you for showing the vid and explaining where the seal fits and the job it does. Thanks mate John Kinnane Tasmania Australia. PS I lost you for a while due to computer problems ( Virus ) al fixed and subscribed
Hello from California. Isn't the internet great. People living thousands of miles apart can meet and talk. Some day my girls will both finish at university and I might have the chance to visit Australia; I'd love to visit Tasmania. But, I'm betting that I'll end up paying for weddings and grand kids first so I'll have to just dream about it.
+John Ferguson G'day John keep the dream alive as we say and I hope that you do get down here. It's a truly beautiful island and worth seeing, two daughters well you never know they might put off getting married, one can hope. Very nice of you to write to me keep in touch regards John
John Kinnane I worked with a fellow from Australia and he always said that everyone had it all wrong. Australia is up top and the rest of the world is down under. He had a map in his office with Australia in the middle and the south pole at the top .The names of all the countries printed to be read that way.
Thanks!
cool. always something interesting going on with them trains.