Ribbon Mic Shootout: AEA N22 vs Royer R-121 on Guitar, Drums and Drum Room
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2018
- These two mics share a lot of roles in the studio, and I wanted to see how they compared to each other.
The AEA N22 is an active ribbon mic, meaning that it uses phantom power but the Royer R-121 is passive.
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I think this guy does some of the best demos on UA-cam when it comes to mic shootouts
I just discovered your channel, and I love the things you consider, the choices you make in terms of gear, DIY,etc. Keep up the great work!
Thank you a lot! Very helpful for me. These two had to be compared
If you want an (less expensive) alternative to the r121, I think the aea r92 is absolutely amazing, sound full and natural.
Thanks for the video, this channel is gold!
Hi Ryan! Nice video! I got my OP-6 preamp back from restoration full rebuild with all slutty components. It has a euphoric aural glow that is hard to describe. Nice upper mids boost and silly amount of character and fat smoothness. Used an opera singer the other day to break it in and it was killing it. Hope you can hear it soon. Glad you are doin well. Love all your vids.
Royer uses an offset ribbon, which gives the front and back a slightly different response. That may explain what you were hearing in the off axis room test.
Yep I thought the same thing. Just didn't want to get quoted on something before I research it.
I watched this on my phone and was suprised to still hear a vast difference with low quality speakers. Obviously no low end experience but I could definetely tell that the R121 had a much smoother mid range while the AEA N22 consistently seemed brighter.
I cant make a fair judgement yet, but thanks for the thorough video!
to my ears, the R121 won everything, the A22 has a blatant peak at 2k or 3k. I think with a lowcut at 40Hz the R 121 will sound amazing in any situation
Once the mics were set back on the gtr, the royer sounded phenomenal. I just started using a ribbon mic, and i like having that distance from the speaker cone. I also thought the aea n22 had a more boxy sound compared to the royer. The royer had much nicer low end and a room mic on drums too.
Great comparison. The N22 was designed to be an all around workhorse mic for the producer/engineer working in smaller spaces, where it needs to sound good in close proximity. For distance miking, use the AEA N8.
Yes very true. Some of these experiments are just to show the "What if".
@@creativesoundlab Understood. My comment was for the folks that may not understand the design brief of the N22. I actually appreciated the comparison you did in a different video between the N22 and the N8 that clearly shows how they sound at different distances. You are also the first person I have seen point out the fact that mic comparisons that place different mics in the same placement/distance is very misleading. In the real world, we optimize mic placement using our ears. I always enjoy your stuff, and boy does the N22 sound fantastic on guitar amps!
Try the 121 for kick out. I've gotten great results using the 121 about 2 feet away, angled down 40 degrees. Wasn't my first thought for 121 application but after I tried it I used it on countless recordings (121>WA-TB12). Cheers
I really liked that "Ringo-ey" overhead sound with the R121 but the N22 sounded fine also, maybe "pre mixed" and ready to go like you said, comparable to a condenser. On the guitar amp the N22 did the same thing up close. At a distance the Royer was clearly favorable, which is funny to me, because I think I usually see the Royer crammed up on the amp. So a good pro-tip from this video would be to back off your ribbons from the guitar amp! I find that this High end/Low end tilt is really the defining factor between a lot of the ribbon mics. This has to do with the geometry of the ribbon motor. A shorter acoustic path from the front to the back of the ribbon, around the metal motor/magnets, will result in a brighter sound. Mesanovic ribbons for example have a very short path, as well as something like the Royer SF-12. A longer acoustic (air distance) path around the ribbon motor will give a bassier, more classic ribbon sound, like an RCA 44 for example. A lot of the active ribbon mics seem brighter. I'm not sure why that is, maybe a high impedance preamp inside the microphone. Anyway thanks for the video, Ryan, I am really interested in microphone design, and these are two very different microphones that look deceptively similar just glancing at them.
Great comment Dan. Yeah I remember reading about that distance around the mic will determine how much of a pressure gradient a mic will have, and thus how much prox effect it'll have. I always think of this fun fact, along with the tape gap concept to be interesting as far as how the attribute/geometry of the tool will affect the sound. PS I think I read from AEA that the prox effect starts at 6 feet on the 44s, but I'm not sure how it's that much.
What superb mid range crunch that N22 has. Tasty!! Wish I could afford one. I do have a Cascade Fathead II though which I like.
Yeah I really dig the mids on the n22s. I have not tried the Cascade but would love to.
So far I can say the Royer R-121 absolutely captures the full picture of the amp which really gave it a pushed final sound right off the bat.
The AEA N22 however won on the drum side of things. Really put the drum up front with a dryer more focused crack.
Both sounded good but the R121 really paints a full picture (Bass and all) so it worked best on toms and guitar cabinet.
Yeah lots of good things. Great ears man.
Very cool. Explains why the N22 + SM57 trick is harder to pull off than the Royer, the N22 is doing most of that already. I usually end up picking one or the other.
I just bought a pair of the fathead 2's mainly for my guitar amps. I have 7 mics for drums including my mxl r144 for my room,Which means i haven one input left on my mic pre thats open right now. gonna have to start micing the drums up with the fatheads in a Blumlein array. MY room is tiny as hell so,i might be just the ticket, with a lot of compression, wonder if i comp one heavy and one not much at all. Gonna be a pain switching that all out, and rewiring the patchbay every time I track a new instrument so i can run it all through my "good" pres
How about using an AEA rpq 500 to put the Royer up close and roll off the low end rumble and open up the mic? That pre has been designed with that specific purpose in mind.
You really need to check out the Beyerdynamic M 160, M 130, and TG V90. Check out the Audio-Technica 4080 and 4081 as well.
Hi Ryan, Thanks for all your content. I was just curious why the ribbon mics need to angled towards the amp/ vocals? Cheers from Australia.
It releases some of the tension on the ribbon and it's safer to use on loud sources.
Hey, Ryan. I'm trying to figure out which ribbon to buy for mic'ing electric guitar at about 5-6 inches. The problem is my single-speaker 45W cranked combo amps are too loud for the N22 right on the grill (they're putting out at or above 140SPL). How far did you have the R-121 in this second example? Would the N22 sound good and balanced around 5-6 inches?
Hey man I absolutely love this video. I was wondering why the human hearing sometimes to be so different with other people. While I was listening to the examples given it seemed like at times the 121 rejected the drums at a distance a little bit better then the 22 but when you explained it that particular comparison you thought differently. I would love to get your insight on this.Thank you for all you do!
Yeah the 121 sounded like the null wasn't actually out to the sides, or that the drums were not in it's null. The n22 sounded like the drums were right there. You also have to consider that there is a difference in tone between the two mics, so the test can only show so much without measuring a difference in dB between on/off axis.
Creative Sound Lab I also was not using headphone lol
Which kit is that? Sounds amazing!
What a great video (again!) About to purchase my first ribbon and this is an excellent comparison. Quick question - is it best to angle a ribbon off-axis like that on a guitar cab? Thanks.
Thanks! Yeah the best practice is to angle the ribbon on loud sources. I've heard it explained that the ribbon is under less tension but I've also heard that the sound can deflect off of the ribbon better. Either way angle the ribbon.
Creative Sound Lab thanks Ryan. Really appreciate your reply.
They sound so different from each other! The N22 won on guitars and overheads for me in this example, but i think the 121 might sound better than the N22 on the overs with a little bit of presence boosting.
Also, how hard is it to get a hold of these kind of mics for a shootout like this, considering you have a fair chunk of subscribers? I'd be really curious to see a giant ribbon shootout between all the different manufacturers' flagship ribbons (SE electronics RNR1, your R88, the Royers, maybe an M160...). Would be really cool to see what sources/applications every mic is happiest on, since i feel like a lot of engineers only use one type of Ribbon mic
Yeah regarding getting review gear in...it's easy but it's hard. Each manufacturer will have to be contacted and each will want a video they can share and some won't share if other brands are in it. It'd be easier for Sweetwater to do something like that with inventory.
Pleasure to hear my track in the opening :-)
Greetings: are you positioning your mics at 90 degrees from the speaker? Thx so much,
Jeremy
Try mixing the N22 close to the guitar cabinet with the r121 a lil' further back, bet it's gonna sound huge
My problem with that approach is the phasing that happens when you have two mics at different distances like that. I'm sure people do it, but I've never had luck with it.
What this tells me: if I want THE "ribbon sound," I'd reach for the Royer. If I want a slightly smoother alternative to a condenser, I'll reach for the AEA N22.
Andrew Weitz that's pretty much exactly how AEA is marketing this mic
n22 hasnt the weight but focuses the sound better, almost like a nice compressor, its a mixed 121 lol
nice strata too.
Now i wonder if there is any difference between N8 and 121
Yeah I'm wondering that myself.
There is a difference between every microphone :)
Its not competition - set the R92 it will bring justice to AEA
Oh no! Don't let the guitar sound full, and well, like a guitar! Wouldn't want that rumble to rock us or anything. That would be a shame! The R-121 sounds warmer, punchier and fuller in every scenario. What? You're going to rely on EQ to pull in fullness later? I do like the AEA on vocals through a tube pre, though. IDK if I would use an R-121 on vocal. Haven't tried. The AEA had a bit of clarity for a ribbon as an overhead, but if you want a thick snare thump, it aint' there. That could be useful for metal, not so much for rock, depending. The AEA made the drum room sound flat, however, and uninteresting. Great video, though. Great comparison choice too.
Pitcher? Baseball or drinks?
R121 for sure! this rock guitar fullness...just get too close...
the drums with the R121 has soooooo much punch... ok it lacks some highs, but what are you using ribbons for? for highs? nope...
I preferred the 121 across the board. Then again I might have a different opinion in the context of a mix.
Nice!
I think the 121 sounds way more focused
Both sound great, overall I prefer the Royer R121.
The Royer sounds more full bassy if that’s what your looking for n22 sounds tinnie on the close Mickey amp test
Great review! Royer smokes the AEA on guitar, for my taste.
Yeah I loved the far r121 but didn't like it close.
the r121 sounds more like the n22 when it's far away.. and there is too much rumble on the r121 in the close mic position but it's the reason why it works further away...
Proximity effect is normal, especially for ribbons, which is why the R121 manual suggests placing the mic 6-8 inches from the cab at least. The first test in this video does not follow or acknowledge that recommendation, so it's a bit unfair to the Royer. Here is the actual quote from the manual, "Amplified Instruments should be miked from a distance of 6-8 inches or more. The smooth
undistorted bass response is very useful for electric guitars and particularly electric bass.
Since guitar amplifier speakers are often beamy, experiment with mic placement to find just the
right spot. Placing the mic at greater distances from the speaker cabinet adds more room
ambience to the mix. You will find that the R-121 does not add undesirable elements to the
sound. Basically, what you hear at the amp is what you get in the control room and in your
recordings." Otherwise, for my personal taste, I don't like the mid-bump the AEA has. I prefer the Royer matched with the 57. Just my opinion, though. Cheers.
All that being said, I know that plenty of people have successfully recorded killer rock tones on the 121 smashed up against the grill. High pass is your friend.
121 all the way.
That might be my future mic
@@ramencurry6672 i want one
The N22 sounds no better than an sm57 on the guitar, to my ear. The Royer is on an whole different level in terms of fidelity.
No offense here, but I do not like either of these mics for recording drums- or at least this particular video recording. There's something missing. However, I just listened to a female jazz vocal recorded on a different ribbon AEA in a "shootout" video that sounded nice. Also, the ribbon mic sounded great on other instruments. I suppose it depends what type of drum sound(s) you are going for. It just does not sound "natural" to my ears.