Seed compost trial results | the benefits of vermiculite?
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- Опубліковано 24 бер 2022
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Howdy Steve!🖐 Interesting post. I say if it ain't broke and works well for one, keep with it.🙂
Your pots of tatars behind ya are looking good. Love your cute fur baby!🙂
We are finally staying in thev50s and 60s at night...spring has arrived and today I'm excited to pot my pepper plants I overwintered.😃
Continued happy gardening!🖐
Thanks Valorie, they should be ready in about a month, hopefully lovely baking potatoes, just as we run out of last year's : All the best - Steve
My seed sowing mix is sifted old potting mix refreshed with homemade compost and worm castings. Sometimes this can be a bit heavy so something like vermiculite is good to lighten the mix. Perlite does the same thing though, and is cheaper, so I use that instead. The only thing I use vermiculite for is a very fine covering over seeds which require light to germinate, to prevent the surface of the mix from drying out.
It's a little embarrassing to admit but knowing my 80/20 approach to gardening I'm sure you will have guessed that this approach would be far too much hassle for me
@@SteveRichards Sifting is definitely not much fun!
I've literally never sifted compost, but I have done quite a bit of rough soil to get the rocks and stones out
Simpler you can make something the better in my opinion - can't argue with your points at all... Will have to try it myself to see results...
I agree, simpler and consistent is almost always better, if efficiency and results are the objective
Maybe you hit the nail on the head there with watering every other day, with bottom watering I don't water again until the seeds have germinated (generally - there's always an exception).
For me, the seaweed solution is to provide the micro-nutrients that are missing from the F2S seed compost as there are none listed on the datasheet.
The F2 and F2S aren't too bad for caking over but there are several that do, and even these two are getting to be poorer quality with sticks etc in so as they are getting worse, I do occasionally use a sprinkle of vermiculite on the top of the seeds. (Especially the ones with only a few in a pack that cost a fortune LOL)
Lord knows what I'll do in 2 years when there is no peat-based compost!
Thanks for the shoutout buddy! Surname is "House" by the way. Digwell Greenfingers came about from a mate's Mum calling me it 10 years ago LOL
You've given me a bit of food for thought here so maybe another trial or two on their way.
That video was shot before you made yours btw, it was prompted by Richard Perkins. I’ve been watching carefully a few videos of seed sowing and watering and damping off etc, including Charles Dowdings poor results. I’ve become ever more convinced that too much water, too early, is the issue.
Pleased to have stimulated a few more trials Steve, I was kind of forced into this one due to the lettuce germination issue, first time in 6 years, but I don’t want to make a habit of it. I’d rather leave it to you, we all have to have our niches in the youtube machine : all the best - Steve
Every word was useful. I was scratching my head why i need all these extra products. Seems like gardeners do it to portray expertise and 'grow" their youtube channels.
Gardener's do focus too much on things like "no dig", fertilisers, composts and the like, whereas 80% of the opportunity to improve comes from sowing the right varieties, at the right time, with the right protection and with lots of interplanting and successions : All the best - Steve
I tend to grow most seeds in only compost. I use vermiculite 1:3 for celery and celeriac- as bog plants I think they appreciate more water to get going. I have issues germinating onions and have tried +\- vermiculite with no positive effect. I may be suffering from old seed which I have to say I do not know the age at packing, I assume fresh but how do I know for sure? And I don’t know if the sellers do a viability check before packing. So I am doing this on some paper now before wasting compost on seeds which are non starters. But I do agree with you - if it’s isn’t broke don’t fix it. Always enjoy your videos! Sandra
I’m do my celery, celeriac and onions with compost, works great, I cover the celeriac with 1-2mm of compost, no propagator or cover. Onions seems to do much better without heat too, just a steady 15-18c which for me is an unheated bedroom : all the best - Steve
Interesting video, I think the key point is that you are using a high end professional grade compost to begin with which is aimed at commercial growers. Most gardeners and allotment growers are using retail multi-purpose compost which won't be of nearly the same quality. I'm assuming that F2 is peat based and my personal choice is to not use peat based compost but that can introduce some additional problems. A lot of retail peat free or peat reduced compost is based on wood fibre and bark and this can dry out very quickly on the surface layer and can even become hydrophobic - adding a layer of vermiculite largely prevents this from happening. Cheap retail compost can also be poor at steady nutrient release as plants grow on hence the need for additional fertiliser. I think it's worth pointing out that the Levington Advance you buy is made by ICL and nothing to with the retail Levington brand which is made by Westland - just in case people think they are buying the same stuff as you.
I understand the issues with peat preservation, but the amount used for seed starting is so tiny by comparison with the environmental benefits associated with growing my own I don't really consider it an issue, by comparison with other uses of compost. It's also worth noting that although I consider it an excellent compost, I buy it for about £8 a bag, for 3 months of seeds, so it's not really expensive, about £32 of compost to grow £8,000 worth of food : All the best - Steve
@@SteveRichards Realistically if I was to order one bag (enough for all my sowing) from an online specialist I'd be paying £10-15 delivery surcharge on top of the price unless I was lucky enough to live close so I could collect it myself. In any case the only point I was making is that the reason people amend compost is because it is lacking in some way in the first place which the amendment corrects and this is a particular problem with a lot of the peat free products that have been rushed onto the market recently. I've been trailing a premium peat free compost from Carbon Gold this year and so far it doesn't seem to need any amendment to get great results but it's expensive and hard to source locally.
That may well be the case, but I offered up a counter explanation, people are over-watering : All the best - Steve
Very interesting Steve. This is such an uncomplicated subject, but some gardeners make it so complicated by faffing about. Being a grower for 30 years I’m pretty experienced in this. If you buy a decent seed compost (I use Levington F1) you will never have to seize. Levington is expensive (I’m lucky that I get it trade) but by not seiveing you are not wasting any compost. Adding vermiculite is an added expense that you don’t need. In my opinion a good seed, the correct germination temperature, correct heat & little water is the key. When an apprentice I was told that you can always add extra water you can’t take it out and that is key factor, seeds and seedlings do not need lots of water, I have also never watered from below little & often. I’ve never soaked or chitted a seed. Get those four key things right and all will be fine. Take care
Thanks for that Mark, it's nice to hear experience confirming my bias, observation and experiments : All the best - Steve
Do you use F1 because you also do a lot of flowers Mark, or because you prefer to water in a fertiliser?
@@SteveRichards I do plant a lot of flowers but to be honest Steve, it’s the one the horticultural supplier always supplied me. I couldn’t believe when you said it’s £20 a bag, I looked it up blimey, I pay £6.95 + vat. I would definitely recommend Melcourt peat free composts, they were the only ones that we found grew all varieties of plants that we grew. I was always very sceptical of PF but after trialling it we went 100%. I do think that there will be a massive problem when PF is the only option, materials will be scarce and the suppliers will have to baulk up with something. The horticulture industry uses 2% of all peat used.
I pay £8.62/bag which is about the same as multipurpose from the garden centre. But from Amazon it's much more because of delivery, but bog standard multipurpose from Amazon is similarly expensive. Seed compost is about 0.5% of my harvest value, so I don't normally think about cost : All the best - Steve
Steve, could you please tell me where you purchased your black stand in the background. Looks exactly what I'm needing. Thanks for all the videos 👍😆
Looks exactly the same as the ones I bought on Amazon. - Amazon Basics 4-Shelf Shelving Unit, up to 160 kg per shelf
it looks like an amazon one
There's links to everything I use in my Amazon shop, here's the section with the shelving www.amazon.co.uk/shop/stevesseasidekitchengardenallotment/list/2TTR7HMCU5CYS : All the best - Steve
Hi Steve i work using vermiculite in refractory concretes vermiculite holds a lot of water and is slow to release it
I've stopped buying seed compost, I just use a good peat free multipurpose (Melcourt), and add builder's sand (max 25%), and bark fines, if I want a really open compost for say starting onion sets.
Since it's the same price I've gone the other way around, I use seed compost to prick out into for anything that's going to be planted within a month : All the best - Steve
Good compost and fresh seeds should be all you need.
That's always been my bias but maybe there's some scenarios where it really helps : All the best - Steve
I've just taken delivery of some vermiculite from Premier Seeds Direct. Never used it before, however their website recommends using it for the seeds I've purchased. Think it might have been the tomatoes. I sow my seeds by my big balcony doors, so I'm wondering if it will help to stop the compost drying out so quickly. Not sure if I will see any differences otherwise, but will be interesting to see.
Most seeds germinate best out of direct sunlight, where the temperature and humidity are fairly stable, the compost shouldn't dry out that fast in those conditions. Once germinated of course they need more light and often less heat : All the best - Steve
hi steve, just wondering where you get your labels from, the white tee shaped ones, i find mormal stick types are quite hard to write on., cheers.
Hi, you can find all the things I use in my Amazon shop, see the 'sowing' section www.amazon.co.uk/shop/stevesseasidekitchengardenallotment
@@SteveRichards thank you i have ordered the labels.
Hi do you buy the F2 from Amazon? I’m struggling to find another source. Thanks
Yes, I get mine from www.lssystems.co.uk/fertilisers-growing-media/professional-compost/levington-advance/levington-seed-modular-f2-75ltr-45p-each?code=LEV75F2SM
The compost mix you’re using has peat moss and additions already in it as well as sand. The reason for adding vermiculite is to break the soil up to retain water etc I use fish manure when watering the large plants once a week. Cheers 🍻
Yeah, that was my point, seed composts are already designed for germinating seeds. F2 doesn't have sand though, that's F2S and the sand is for automated compost filling machines, to make it flow better, not needed when filling by hand of course : All the best - Steve
I use muti purpose compost, I sieve it before I use it. I put a tiny bit of blood fish and bone init, I've never really had any issue but I may try my next lot without blood fish and bone and see if there any difference
I think you would find that you don't need the BF&B Mark : All the best - Steve
Appreciate replies below - I just followed your advice and started my first test with some cilantro seeds - potted them up 1cm below soil surface etc...
Only spraying water from top, however, I notice my tray soil is drying up rather quickly in sun - should I relocate trays to shaded area during germination? Or just water multiple times when sun is out?
I always germinate at a stable temperature out of the sun, usually a cool corner of a bedroom 16-18c works best for most things : all the best - Steve
@@SteveRichards Perfect - much appreciated. Will report back results later!
@@SteveRichards Would 16-18c work for hot chilli peppers too? Also could you please confirm something as small as a strawberry seed will be able to germinate and make its way through 1cm of seed compost on top? Might make for a great video to see what is possible with this method!
Yes, small seeds like brassica and lettuce are fine pushing through 1cm of compost. Summer fruits: tomato, peppers, squash, cucumbers etc prefer 20-22c, they often germinate cooler but they take a long time : All the best - Steve
@@SteveRichards Fantastic info Steve - does that mean the theory that lettuce needs light to germinate is a fairy tale? Will report back my findings for sure!
vermiculite is not for drainage. australian national botanical garden seed raising mix is 2:1 vermiculite and river sand.
i'm going to try that, as commercial seed raising mix i get is a bale of peat and perlite, and it can become hard to re-wet.
Im considering putting it in my pots and raised beds this year- mixed in with compost- to try to reduce the needs to water and fertilise as much.
Im not sure if its a good idea or not really and its not like there is going to be anyway to remove it if I dont like it. Still Ive got 100l of it for £34 so it I dont use it Im not sure what I will do with it LOL
personally I'd do a side by side comparison with a few pots first to see how well it works : All the best - Steve
Is home made compost or potting mix always a disaster for seed starting? I would love to see a video comparing these different scenarios with your commercial grade mix for seed starting...
It's not always a disaster, but it is inconsistent and at certain times of year, inconsistent can be a disaster
Charles Dowding has done a couple of videos showing pretty bad results from using home made compost and organic compost mixes of very variable quality
@@SteveRichards I had success with sun baked home made compost so it has close to no pests! Certainly for anyone growing on a bigger scale a consistent commercial mix makes total sense.
I just seed start in compost as well. I tried vermiculite once and I did not like the vermiculite for all the same reasons.
Thanks for the feedback : All the best - Steve
I follow most of the steps you do, but I find using vermiculite helps. I have never found good seed compost like you have though. Actually I have stopped using seed compost as every seed compost I have tried is terrible. Wish they stocked the one you use locally.
I agree, good seed compost is the place to start, Amazon do the seed compost I use : all the best - Steve
Just like all hobbies, there are plenty of folks out there wanting to see you magic potions and magic beans!
I fill my modules from my raised bed, finely sieved compost that has had hundreds of veg plants living in it.
Works perfectly!
Why would I want “good drainage” in a module? I would be forever watering them!
It’s not rocket surgery!
Exactly Dean, as I speculated in the video people want 'good drainage' because they over-water : All the best - Steve
@@SteveRichards or they are just repeating what they have been taught.
There are no shortage of ridiculous gardening tips out there!
That's for sure Dean! That's the great thing about video, you can't (or shouldn't) just pontificate about how to garden, you really need to also show your results, a bit like fishing : All the best - Steve
@@SteveRichards amen!
is this levington f2 peat free? I guess not, have you tried any peat free composts?
It's not peat free, I understand the issues with peat preservation, but the amount used for seed starting is so tiny by comparison with the environmental benefits associated with growing my own I don't really consider it an issue, by comparison with other uses of compost
@@SteveRichards That's interesting. I use sylvagrow peat free, which seems the best quality I have seen, I don't add any sand or vermiculite as it seems to dry out quickly in small modules. Recently, I have come to an idea that I have over-watered some seedlings. My chillies failed last year completely, and the first batch this year. It's sometimes difficult to tell how dry the compost is. If you fancy another trial, try one with peat free composts. Love your channel. Simon
Quite a few years back now I did try sylvagrow, I had the worst results, but I might have just been unlucky or perhaps they have much improved now. It put me off though : All the best - Steve
"I don't know how to pronounce that" -- Ciucca = chee-oo-cha. I told you that when you asked last year! ;-)
I remember you telling me, but sadly I have a bit of brain damage and can't remember some types of information : All the best - Steve
Hi Steve, I did a similar trial earlier this year, I came to similar conclusions as yourself.
Thanks for the feedback! : All the best - Steve
Isn't it because Levington is super expensive?
Not really, it’s £8 for 75 litres, which is not much more than garden centre multipurpose. Seed compost costs me about £32/year to grow about £8,000 of food, that’s not expensive to me : all the best - Steve
maybe vermiculite helps if you are a bit rubbish at looking after them.
As I speculated I think it comes down to your watering practices. One of the reasons I switched to growing seedlings at home was so I could water less : All the best - Steve
I never understood the need for vermiculite or any other magic ingredients. Even if it gives 100% germination instead of the 95% I get it is not worth the extra faffing about.
Well the seed compost companies might already have added the magic ingredients, but I've never felt the need to second guess them : All the best - Steve