To your point on enjoying them without knowledge; My wife came to EVO with me last year and she was super hyped during the Sunday Top 8's and the MK top 8. She's very supportive but not into fighting games, yet she still had a great time and got hype.
I used to be really big into starcraft 2 right when it first came out. And I played on the ladder competitive. I was okay I made it through high gold/Low Plat, until I had to move back home after college. I had to get a real job, and my mom was particularly not pleased about me liking and playing video games at my age. So any enjoyment I got out of the game was undercut by mother's disdain for me enjoying them. I had not been able to play the game for so long but I still had a passion for the game and I really enjoy watching it even though I didn't get to play it anymore. To this day I still watch big starcraft 2 tournaments and interesting matches while I can, and even though I live alone I can't bring myself back to playing again because of how much you have to dedicate to the game to even enjoy it casually. At the end of the day I had to accept the fact that I will never be as good as I was 10 years ago and I will never enjoy playing the game at a high-level without putting it in a lot of time and dedication I just cannot afford to put in right now
gosh this speaks to me... something interesting about fighting games vs sports is people seem to understand how to have fun playing casual sports, but people who play fighting games or other competitive games feel this urge to try be pro players and get depressed when they are not seeing results.
The crux of the matter is that it's unclear how to have casual fun with FGs (if it's at all possible). Even if you're trying to see it casually, getting destroyed ultimately urges you to start wondering how you can get better. This inevitably leads to thinking there's a barrier to having fun in FGs.
@@AkibanaZero Another thing is that ultimately you can't have fun and think simultaneously. You'd be too busy thinking. In hindsight, you could say that was fun but is it really?
@@AkibanaZero I don't think it's getting destroyed. I personally am fueled by losses, cause it's room to self evaluate and adjust, but the real difference between casual sports and casual gaming is the "Perceived" difference in skill. When someone beats you in 1v1 basketball for example, It's probably cause they had a mean 3 pointer or maybe they significant better defense than you. You realize you were outmatched, outplayed, out-whatever applies. But in fighting games, It was "That move was so cheap", "Their connection sucks", "They played top tier", and the field of other excuses people leverage to spare their fragile egos. In B-ball, you miss shots, you work on your shooting. In fighting games, they get crossed up, but their defense was perfect fine, It was the other player who was being scrubby. That's the real difference.
@@Count_Virgil The bball analogy is partially apt. FGs however tend to be a lot more nebulous as to the things you need to improve upon. I'd argue also that FGs have so many aspects to work on they become too overwhelming.
@@AkibanaZero I don't disagree at all. There are fundamental things you can learn from playing a sport, that are visually easy to understand. In Fighting games, the finite things we can't "See" aren't as obvious, but my analogy was less about the technical difference between the two, and more so the attitude of the participants. Sajam has discussed many times that tutorials need to be more clear, have more frame data, and more diverse dummy options need to be present so that what a player needs to do in a specific situation is a clear choice for them. "What are my options?" and "When/how do I use them?" Right? But in true form, these tutorials require players to be self-reflective and understand what happened in order to change. This is where the nebulousness you stated exists, because the difference in a mistake or success occurs in a fraction of a second's time, and changes with the rules of the game.
yup you grow with all these to need to use them on a case by case bases mainly when T7 goes on sale (i mean Vs a seemly new player spamming think that's key to a win to has zero knowing of frames, safe moves etc) and we all lack one to excel in another or only excel in execution *or win by a wonky Tekken 7* thing but who hasn't by now lol
I NEVER play fighting games. I stopped playing over a decade ago before I was even aware of high level competitive play. What got me into watching competitive fighting games was the jargon. Looking at the language of a subculture from an anthropological perspective is always interesting. The deeper/more complex the jargon the more interesting the subculture.
Can confirm. Literally don't play fighting games at all, they are my favorite esport to watch and FGC content creators are some of my absolute favorites. Still miss The Recipe
Same here. I've watched Aris, Sajam, and Maximillian's content regularly for years now and the closest thing to a fighting game I play is the occasional Smash. Fighting games are awesome because of the cool, flashy stuff that comes out of badass characters. Its like a dual-layer movie, the characters get to battle it out, and the content creators get to improve and it all comes together to form an amazing narrative experience.
I feel like this also applies to what I’ve seen of people saying “older game was better, this one sucks.” People have said it (with varying degrees of accuracy) about every new installment or fighting game. Strive is so stiff, why didn’t they make it more like xrd. Man, xrd sucks, go play ac+r. Ac+r is a dead game, play a popular arcsys game like dbfz. Dude, don’t even bother with dbfz, play a real tag fighter like mvc3. Man, mvc3 is garbage, just play mvc2. Only mashers play tag games with stupidly long combos, play a footsie based game where you have to think like sf5. Man, sf5 is booty batter buttcheeks, play sf4 instead. Sf4 is so much worse than third strike, just play that. Man, FUCK third strike, sf2 super turbo is where it’s at, just think about the good old arcade days! Man, super turbo is archaic, play a modern game, I hear there’s a new guilty gear coming out! And so on and so forth until the end of time 😅
I think the thing is you are looking at "people" as a single entity that should have a consistent opinion. When that's varying opinions for multiple people.
You get into and find a favorite fighting game. No matter what, the next release is different. Online is bad so you might have to follow the trend so you can play local more often. Nowadays, not only are new games different, they're simpler, still have bad netcode, aren't doing things that would increase player retention or but are simultaneously focused on esports. Your anime fighter is now street fighter, despite the contention surrounding the game since release. No game is doing what could and should be the standard in fighting game quality. It will take an outside force, like the League fighter or a quarantine to finally change things up
Ahegaliant oh I agree, so much of fighting games are becoming centralized around certain ideas rather than appreciating the things that make, for example, guilty gear different from street fighter. I don’t understand what’s happening in KI at all, but I love watching and appreciating it for its uniqueness. That’s what bothers me about both new fighting games becoming similar to each other and people just saying, “go play/watch this instead!” Both are missing out on how the uniqueness of these games not only makes them fun, but builds different skills and abilities as a player. Fighting game fans want this uniqueness to continue and grow more, with better user features, not regress due to a misunderstanding of what makes these games appealing to new players. And your point on an outside force being needed seems spot on. (Which is unfortunate in a way, but that’s a different discussion) I hope that some new fighting game comes along and just absolutely shocks the system into action. Give us a story that actually helps people learn, great netcode and lobbies, ACTUAL ease of entry with real depth and not just devs saying that while only simplifying games, etc. 🙂
it depends, sf5 was thrash compared to most fighters at launch thats why people hated it so much, without even mentioning other problems, nowadays its ok because its been improved upon years, people grew fond of these games over time.
I think Sajam underestimates the problem in League right now. It's become well known that the report system does not function properly so it has become very common for people to literally take games hostage because theyre upset, play on a smurf and troll if the game goes bad etc. I agree that every game has things people love complaining about but the "shit show" in the reddit thread isnt just something annoying. Everyone who plays league knows that the game itself has become frustrating even when you are winning because of how well known it had become that you can avoid punishments very easily. I've played league since 2014 and have never been less interested in playing than I am this season, even though I've been climbing and improving the actual games have been a full time baby sitting job because of how well known it has become this season that the report system is broken. It's not about winning or losing anymore, it's about not being able to play without a headache lol
The problem with League is the very design of MOBAs in general. Imagine if a fighting game round took 30 minutes to an hour to finish. Now imagine for 20 of those minutes you got your ass kicked so hard that there is literally nothing you can do to win, but you aren't allowed to quit. Forcing people to play a game that they know they'll lose is always going to lead to disaster. MOBAs in general and League in particular is designed to snowball so that its incredibly difficult to make a comeback. Its no surprise that the vast majority of people in that situation would just choose to cut and run and save themselves the aggravation. But they CAN'T cut and run because MOBAs punish you for leaving. People tend to get pretty resentful when you force them into that kind of situation, and there is no limit to the creativity of resentful people. Its a "if I have to be miserable playing this lost game, then EVERYONE is going to be miserable with me" kind of mentality. Every aspect of MOBAs besides character abilities are designed to be as awful to interact with as possible.
@@matrix3509 but that's not even the big problem most people at plat+ in league are willing to ff15 in a lost game but people ego the fuck out in games they can win but they aren't carrying. They would rather lose a winnable game then play around someone else. It's super frustrating because one person "can't" be the deciding factor in whether their team wins but you can easily determine if your team loses
it's mainly since randoms can't have great team work, be in sync to lack synergy which sadly common in team based modes to MOBA's or very common in league to all the riot games owned things to in the real comp modes specifically! since those like winning yes, but all think to want all to follow a game plan randoms surely don't follow a game plan when playing.
"Why don't y'all just find good teammates?" Finding teammates that will play regularly AND have a similar schedule AND are good AND not quit, is just the worst.
It's like most of the games Because pro play even compared to high level play, it's different It's simply not the same games and that's the beauty of it I do play a lot of games, and all of them it's the same The game you're watching will never be the same game you're playing
It's REALLY difficult to have a consistently good competitive experience in pretty much any team-based pvp game when you're not queueing with a full group. Matches will simply be won or lost based on factors not under your control a fair percentage of the time when you queue with randoms who refuse to cooperate with the team.
I will say there's at least one difference between the online experience of MOBAs and 1v1 fighting games. When asking about where to find a good source of info to get started, I've only ever been immediately told to uninstall by MOBA players.
That makes me think, could it be because of install base? FG's are still a niche genre so the community tends to help newbs willing to learn. While MOBAs are "too big to fail" so they can afford to "discourage" these "filthy noobs".
@@malcovich_games I think that's part of it, but as someone who plays and enjoys both MOBAs and FGs, I think it comes mostly down to the team-reliance of MOBAs. Sometimes you feel like you're spending 90% energy trying to manage randoms' toxicity and ego and 10% playing the actual game itself, and it gets un-fun super fast. The worst thing it amounts to in a fighting game is some annoying trash-talk, it affects the actual gameplay to a much lesser degree.
@@jshcalebchang I don't know what it's like for other mobas but in league you get more individual agency over the outcome of games by not trying then you do for trying. It makes winning feel like you rolled good rng which takes away from wins but for some reason and losses feel like you rolled poorly always giving you something to blame. It's very rare I have a league game that actually feels good regardless of outcome but when you do have one it's one the best feelings. It's better to just not play then sit there with the rest of the community chasing that feeling.
@@ElvisMaximus1 This dude gets it.. dont play mobas. Played them for 7 years now and I can tell you they suck massive nuts but are incredibly addicting lmao
imagine playing DOA still? lol but few variables with this *i think* to this is a general take to good reads to i'm guessing match up based or something.
@@DevilJ432 not saying there is *dang sarcasm don't translate well via text* to hate for the greedy DLC stuff aside just wish FG's had a more chill welcoming vibe & appeal to all ain't over focus on winning to the point of rage quitting & even having smurf and or alts to keep their rank.
@@CylonDorado miss to wish all just had a care free and FUN playing of FG's to all not seeking to be "the best" and whatever. and also ready to lend a hand out for those seeking it or just reach out anyway i have few times many should but many already know of creators of FG content to prob watch a few tournament matches but don't need a "expert" to teach a new player the basics and the general FG stuff.
I've gotten into watching some Dwarf Fortress youtubers (Shoutout to Kruggsmash) and its a game I have zero intrest in playing. But I love listening to these DF youtubers plays and generate stories on the fly turning what looks like a litteral mess of ASCII into this Super cool narrative about Dwarfs offering Ettin sacrifices to their home volcano.
It's really easy to lose context as an entry level viewer. You see the highest quality a game has to offer, the best art a community can make, etc. And you miss out on the work and failure that gets a pro to their level. This is part of why seeing Sajam get his ass kicked in Skullgirls and TFH was encouraging for many watchers, because it demonstrated how everyone goes through the learning period, pros and new folks alike.
At a low level of understanding, its the wacky combos and close comebacks that get really entertaining to watch. At a high level of understanding, there's footsies, resource management, really specific character interactions and knowing really tough combo links and watching them get pulled off. Its kinda why something like Evo moment 37 is a thrill to watch for anyone. You can see its a close as hell comeback with zero understanding, but anyone with some solid knowledge knows how insane the parry timing and consistency was to get down.
They might be right! After all, suits are mostly concerned about sales, not regular player size--because players accessing the servers to play online costs them money.
Scratch Hare Games A lot of money is made in player retention via microtransactions, season passes, DLC, and all that. The cost of a single player accessing a server is insignificant by comparison.
Ahegaliant To that, I think it won't matter. Because, for example, Nintendo doesn't make any more money out of Melee. If Melee had (official) online, it would've cost them more to keep the servers running.
FOGSHIE Well, DLC is still sales they care about. Or Blazblue's/Guilty Gear's/Street Fighter 2-3's business model of forcing you to buy a new game every time there's a major update. If a game had micro transactions for consumable in game currency or lootboxes then maybe that's used to keep the servers running and more. Then sure. But not every game is an Injustice 2 or MK 11 or Killer Instinct. Every other game bleeds out from server fees and they have to shut it down eventually when they're done selling any more DLC or aren't getting digital/physical sales.
My dad went with me to Evo 2015 I think it was when the guy's stick broke and 2019 and he barely knows anything about games but he's played sports and things for 40 years so there's still that understanding that there's deeper layers even if he doesn't understand the mechanics well enough to know every little thing going on
I have that online ladder anxiety, but worse. I always worry that I'm gonna lose so hard and that my connection is gonna be so bad that its gonna paint me in a bad light with the guy curbstomping me.
BetaManicCommand this used to be me too, but once i got over the bad connection part (in other words I stopped playing delay based fighters), that cut down on my ladder anxiety a lot because I could finally blame myself for losses instead of input delay.
I think many many people have the wrong mentality about team games about bad teammates. If you're good, then you exert pressure on the enemy team yourself, making your teammates seem better than they actually are. And as much as people crap on Nintendo for not having voice/text chat with randoms in Splatoon, it really does help a lot in reducing the toxicity of the game. It's a common anecdote that the game's director tried going online in a team FPS game and came to... a conclusion.
Played league once , Q into bot lobby teammates flame me harder than my dad when I brought back my report card senior year . Literally the game mode meant for learning. gets bullied out didnt even get to experience the bullshit
I think this might not have been the case years ago when fighting games weren't as visually appealing to casual gamers. But with the crazy shit game engines are pulling off now, like Tekken, you don't even need to understand the game mechanics to admire how visually satisfying it is to see a corner pressure. And there's nothing wrong with it; in fact quite the opposite - e-sports needs casual viewers.
Speedrunning and woodturning videos are two things I love watching but will never personally do myself, and they're still tight as fuck. Sajam's got the right of it.
That's why good commentators are very important. They give insight and entertain people who aren't hardcore but still want to watch high level competitive gameplay.
Me everytime I see a pro play charge type characters. How the hell do pros do charge motions and make it look like instantaneous , thats why I cant play Leo or Vatista
It’s actually pretty easy to do and I’m not even a pro. Like the other comment mentioned. Hide the charge. While you’re doing one charge move, have your thumb or fingers set to charge the next move.
Part of it is that they start charging the instant the move comes out. Like you can charge during the animation of an attack. That and also they have internalized the exact amount of time necessary to charge and gotten used to it. I can't play charge characters either.
This video is mad old but this topic is one reason why I really like t90s age of empires 2 casting. He does series where he casts no name mid and low elo matches and points out all of the legitimately competitive ways players are engaging with the game at whatever level they're at. I'm sure there's something similar for fgc, I just don't know about it because I don't play fgcs I just watch sajam wik and random casts/streams.
You post it on tappedout and never spend the money or time . I've made literal hundreds of decks . And then just deleted the decklist cause I have no want to play the game.
I was a casual before I started getting better, I watched Momochi vs Daigo didn't understand why but it looked so fucking cool so I had learn it 2016-2020 it's worth it
I have a lot of difficulty to enjoy watching something I dont understand. For me the tension comes from knowing (or rather fearing for) what comes next. Like infiltration picking up Juri vs Gamerbee or Justin with akuma vs fchamp's Phoenix and Doom. The moment of truth becomes much more "WOW HE DID THAT" if you know that akuma has an invincible hyper for example. At least for me that's how it works.
Its really weird that some people believe that you cant enjoy watching a competitive fighting game , or any games in general casually. My dad and i watches evo every year together for example, and he never touched a fighting game
100% agree with you. I haven’t played a fighting game in months but still watch your content. (Mainly haven’t played because of work and computer troubles rip) but still
I got into fighting games because Ultra David and James Chen made it sound really interesting. I don’t think less of people that would rather watch (I do that with chess) but I think I’d rather watch other stuff if I didn’t intend to play fighting games at all.
4:29 the quote is right. most us who understand the FGC lingo to stuff get what's going on with FG events to some i've seen posted on IGN's channel with those not in the loop who prob were lost on "wait what a mixup" "what's a DP?" etc i remember know knowing simple terms good some years ago to i know them real clean now *hope FG dev's make a Smash like How To play* that's done/ narrated by That blasted, is a dream.
Yeah, I'm like this lol. Probably just because I want to open the game and just be as good as people on tournament streams, which *logically* I know is impossible, but I still do it subconsciously. All that ends up happening is I get mad too quickly and shut off the game. It's weird because the way I learn languages is just throwing myself at speakers and talking like a caveman while gradually getting better (and also lots of reading), but for some reason I can't do it for video games.
You get into and find a favorite fighting game. No matter what, the next release is different. Online is bad so you might have to follow the trend so you can play local more often. Nowadays, not only are new games different, they're simpler, still have bad netcode, aren't doing things that would increase player retention or but are simultaneously focused on esports. Your anime fighter is now street fighter, despite the contention surrounding the game since release. No game is doing what could and should be the standard in fighting game quality. It will take an outside force, like the League fighter or a quarantine to finally change things up
i feel like fighting game is always going to be more fair than any team game because most of the time you only have at most 20% of the control to your outcome, imagine having the flip 4 coins and needs to land on heads at least 3 times to have a chance at winning even if you performed perfectly for urself
I started the watching and not playing From Starcraft. I enjoyed playing till I reached a point of having tendonitis and didn’t wanna go through that again. Nowadays I watch a lot of esports that I stopped playing the games all together, for a couple of reasons such as love to continue watching the storyline’s unfold, or just love to watch high level of play, and find the game annoying for reasons (bad servers, bad pc, trash netcode). I think it’s very normal to be interested in watching something. I grew up playing sports and video games because my friends circle was like that. I loved playing sports but found em so boring to watch. Not the same story on Esports.
I still question the idea that fighting games are the hardest genre of games, when you can place a complete noob in any game and they all will have problems with something
it's still true tho, many not jump into FG's for the fear of losing when all even "the greats" lose to losing is baked in outright shouldn't even care about winning 1st off on FG's should want to learn to be some what competent, play Arcade mode or Trials, figure the mechanics out and NOT rush to go online mainly ranked! most fear losing yea and most over focus on winning when the goal is growth. go for growth over ether winning or losing.
Hmm... when you put it that way, there's a value in figuring out which genres have the better "complete noob" experience... and how to improve it so that the player remains engaged and interested even after suffering losses and (in team games) being told to uninstall the game.
Eventually every game becomes more of a game of numbers and percentages when it gets old enough. With the amount of resources available, there's very rarely things you just haven't seen before if you play long enough.
I'm definitely "guilty" of this, I'm really into the theory of fighting games, I respect the talent of high-level players, but I'm too easily salted to ever really get into them on a competitive level. I love to watch folks popping off, though.
I had a different experience with dragon ball fighterz, I was playing against this guy who probably had 10,000 matches online. He would block everything, and he would constantly cross me up. It was really fun playing against him and I felt like he could compete with the professionals. Later that day I watch a professional match and I felt like they couldn't do what my opponent was doing earlier. Then again, offline matches are a different thing since it's much faster, much less delay, and a lot less time to react to your opponent.
this rings pretty true because I play 2d fighters and have ZERO understanding of tekken or soul cal but still find them fun to watch its not as if i need to play tekken or soul cal to know someones getting their ass kicked
I agree that some people use teammates as an excuse but I don't fully agree with your take on it. Honestly, because of teammates, I don't feel like I have the rank I should in League. I feel like I might deserve a higher or a lower rank because sometimes my teammates carried me and sometimes they screwed me over. In general, I don't really like playing with teammates because the victory or the lost does not feel deserved. Playing fighting games I make a lot of excuses as you say, but in the end I know everything falls on me.
I mean twitch viewership would be extremely small for tournaments if only the guys that played it watched. Thats why there's a huge disparity between viewership of tournaments and of top players' streams. You know those that watch brianf are active sfv players because its a great source to learn and improve. On the other hand, everyone thats kinda interested in fighting games watch tournaments, heck, even those that hate sfv watch every sfv event if the twitch chat is anything to go by.
Yeah, I haven't been able to play fighting games regularly. I prefer playing with friends, but I haven't had friends who want to play with me for quite a while. Plus, my favorite fighting games all have shit netcode. Hopefully, Strive will get their lobby system figured out so at least that point can change.
Damn, are you me? I prefer playing with friends, and they are fairly close by so delay based is fine when playing with them but not as much with randoms. But, all my friends who play havent played in a long time. And my favorite games are all delay based (until Strive, hopefully they change the lobbies). Though, I also have an issue where I get anxiety before playing with randoms because I'm worried, not about losing, but about disappointing them and not being a good opponent; since I can't see or hear randoms. A game I like having rollback would help encourage me to do it more at least, though
@@ZariLutus Netcode problems aside, don't worry about disappointing opponents. If you are matched up against someone much better than you, they won't remember you in the long run anyway. If you're matched against someone much worse than you, it's not your fault if you crush them. Just focus on enjoying the game and getting better.
I might be alone on this, but I rarely feel this way, I often feel like the opposite a lot of the time. For example, I hate watching Soccer, but I like playing it with my friends
Someone said 'Top Diff' the other say saying how much I swamped Fiddle and Sett and I felt pretty good about it lol. I just got back into playing LoL so Id never heard someone say that before so I was like 'wtf' lol
This video is aimed at me and I don't like how I ticked every box of his list. On another note, there if you watch enough you understand the concepts, especially if you get good commentary from people who do. Hell, even those who do color commentary. When Steve pop's off, regardless of if someone knows shit, they know somethings going down. Edit: I still have to say that 6:48 Basically every example you give other than the game is laggy is something that you blame yourself for. that's the reason most people suggest it's easier to lose a team game because the excuse is pushed to someone else. Any excuse admitting you blame yourself is an admission of defeat. MY character can't beat YOUR character, that mixup is unfair, I can't deal with that. At the same time, I know people who hate playing team games because they will do this, they hate it when a player doesn't do their job expertly and because of that only play 1v1 games so they don't feel so salty about a loss.
Friend of mine has me play ARAM with her in LoL. I haven't played since like 2014. Damn near every character I'm like "I have no idea what's going on. Oh...this looks cool." *dies for trying it*
I always take full blame on fighting games, either being pressured or my moves were read.. I can't take blame if my teammates decide to feed an enemy on MOBAs.
I enjoy watching starcraft but I don't play bc it's rough on my hands, which are already injury prone. I enjoy watching fighting games but I don't play because I don't have the time to get good enough for me to be personally satisfied with my progress. I enjoy watching league, but I only really enjoy playing with friends bc randoms can be so toxic.
I 100% agree on the main point on the video, but I do think that some communities hate their game more then others. Lol or ow players are much less happy overall the fgc members in my experience at least.
There was recently post about the same topic in League of Legends subreddit and totally blew up, lol community +1 this video. Edit: Ok I kept watching and you saw that post :D
"How many fighting game players have you ever met that have taken full accountability for their losses" *Raises hand* Its me. I do that. Even when Skullgirls happens, its my fault for doing the thing that let Skullgirls happen.
I feel like I am/can be competent in almost any game I play. The only thing is I lack self confidence so I feel like I couldn't play anything Amateur/Professionally.
That could be a mentality problem but not for the reasons you may be expecting... ya should not have to feel a game has a skill requirement before enjoying it. You could find other competent/casual players and fight them, or find a good level in your game's ranking system and try to maintain it.
I sometimes see pro League of Legends highlights and have no clue wtf is going on or why it's hype cause there's so much going on I don't know where to even look half the time.
The main problem with highlight videos is they tend to leave out the slowmo replay, where the commentators go into detail. You might have a better clue if the highlight videos left that in, or you watched a full match.
I absolutely hate playing online. I love the games, I like playing them offline, I enjoy learning them, but online is really awful. The only online experience that is close to decent to me is Killer Instinct. Everything else feels awful to play.
Not in my experience. MK11 is an especially confusing thing to me, because everybody says it's good, but to me it feels like I'm playing underwater even in the absolute best matches, and when it's bad, it's REAL BAD, like I can't walk a step forward and then block kind of bad.
Agreed entirely, with the only caveat being: if you don't know shit about the game, keep your opinions on game balance out of my face. The super casual/watch only fans tend to complain so much about high tier characters while having no understanding of why they're actually tiered highly, it's nauseating
I know there's one complaint is nearly always valid in FGs: the online is trash. I love BB then I go online, I need to predict the fucking future to land a 2k combo, it fucks my brain. I really want a good online environment to let me die in peace not in frustration.
The more I understood FGs, the more it became apparent that you can dump the salt of a 40-50 minute match in a MOBA in 3-5 minutes of playing a ranked match in fighting games. I had to quit MOBAs after that. Actually, FilipinoMan's Rose at Evo Pools made me quit MOBAs cold turkey. It was probably the most boring match I watched that Evo. But I could feel his opponent's salt rise as the poor guy got near double perfected 4 rounds straight 90 seconds each.
i don't play league or the main league mode since all focus on winning to consistent changing meta it's too much. FG's yea got bunch of characters, moves, frames, recovery, not safe, some hate x Vs y match up etc but it's more tolerable *then insert FG has bad netcode* which sure is the main issue but i love viewing FG's, fortnite (yea i said it), osu (remember that DS game elite beat agents it's pretty much that) when i'm tired to play them to games i have a ok to fair bit of knowing of what's going on to game i like if i don't i maybe won't. surely not a garald quote to entire video also on this exact subject *of course he nails it* and it's true most us aren't good in x game to seeing "the greats" do what is deemed "impossible" in it has the many factors of awe, amazement to then YOU want to do it too! great better get ready to grind, use the tool that exist (hopefully) to get good you won't be like eyemuscian in a week just the facts. BUT if you lab, take insight of tech, even reach out in the nice manner to enjoy the process you'll grow and over time you'll be a semi decent yoshi main but were all different and learn at a different pace.
I can attest to being both ends of the spectrum in terms of viewership vs understanding. When I was a kid I really enjoyed watching high level Tekken Tag Tournament 2, I watched every major tournament streamed by spooky after evo 2013 and I just watched for the combos and the hype moments. Fast forward until now and I've grown into loving high level play of almost every fighting game because I'm intrigued by the decision making by the players at the top level. While I think that it's better to understand what you're watching, I think I had more fun watching when I was younger but that might just be because I liked the older games more. Man I miss usf4/ttt2/umvc3 era so bad lol
Professional content creator and tournament commentator argues for watching games instead of playing them. No agenda there. :P Seriously, I prefer to play over watch almost a 100%. Once I kind of figure out a fighting game I almost entirely lose interest in watching it. The game I watch the most of is by far Super Mario Maker 2 because that shit is crazy but I can't afford a Switch to play it myself. But if other people enjoy watching fighting games more power to them. People should do what they enjoy, not what other people enjoy or what they're told they should enjoy.
![$2000 WORLD FINALS: The Biggest Mortal Kombat 1 Khaos Reigns Tournament [TOP64]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qfHWKSv8bKY/mqdefault.jpg)
It's funny because no one feels awkward about it with real sports. Like "Oh, the Olympics are fun to watch but I don't run the fastest 100 m dash."
Man these fucking scrubs who can't run a 10 second 100m can't appreciate the gameplay of a top gamer like Usain Bolt.
Every time I play against vatista.
"Flash kick difference"
To your point on enjoying them without knowledge; My wife came to EVO with me last year and she was super hyped during the Sunday Top 8's and the MK top 8. She's very supportive but not into fighting games, yet she still had a great time and got hype.
Throws out a move.... Gets punished.... "Frame Difference"
I used to be really big into starcraft 2 right when it first came out. And I played on the ladder competitive. I was okay I made it through high gold/Low Plat, until I had to move back home after college. I had to get a real job, and my mom was particularly not pleased about me liking and playing video games at my age. So any enjoyment I got out of the game was undercut by mother's disdain for me enjoying them. I had not been able to play the game for so long but I still had a passion for the game and I really enjoy watching it even though I didn't get to play it anymore. To this day I still watch big starcraft 2 tournaments and interesting matches while I can, and even though I live alone I can't bring myself back to playing again because of how much you have to dedicate to the game to even enjoy it casually. At the end of the day I had to accept the fact that I will never be as good as I was 10 years ago and I will never enjoy playing the game at a high-level without putting it in a lot of time and dedication I just cannot afford to put in right now
thats rough man, all the best.
Sajam: "Fireball difference? Can you imagine?"
C-Ciel: "Yeah, I'm throwing fireballs. You want to throw a fireball too? Do it. I DARE you."
Beams tho... can Aoko do it? ;)
C-Roa:
@@slightlyaltruistic9470 Can actually snipe C-Roa orb sets with Ciel lmao
gosh this speaks to me...
something interesting about fighting games vs sports is people seem to understand how to have fun playing casual sports, but people who play fighting games or other competitive games feel this urge to try be pro players and get depressed when they are not seeing results.
The crux of the matter is that it's unclear how to have casual fun with FGs (if it's at all possible). Even if you're trying to see it casually, getting destroyed ultimately urges you to start wondering how you can get better. This inevitably leads to thinking there's a barrier to having fun in FGs.
@@AkibanaZero Another thing is that ultimately you can't have fun and think simultaneously. You'd be too busy thinking. In hindsight, you could say that was fun but is it really?
@@AkibanaZero I don't think it's getting destroyed. I personally am fueled by losses, cause it's room to self evaluate and adjust, but the real difference between casual sports and casual gaming is the "Perceived" difference in skill. When someone beats you in 1v1 basketball for example, It's probably cause they had a mean 3 pointer or maybe they significant better defense than you. You realize you were outmatched, outplayed, out-whatever applies.
But in fighting games, It was "That move was so cheap", "Their connection sucks", "They played top tier", and the field of other excuses people leverage to spare their fragile egos. In B-ball, you miss shots, you work on your shooting. In fighting games, they get crossed up, but their defense was perfect fine, It was the other player who was being scrubby. That's the real difference.
@@Count_Virgil The bball analogy is partially apt. FGs however tend to be a lot more nebulous as to the things you need to improve upon. I'd argue also that FGs have so many aspects to work on they become too overwhelming.
@@AkibanaZero I don't disagree at all. There are fundamental things you can learn from playing a sport, that are visually easy to understand. In Fighting games, the finite things we can't "See" aren't as obvious, but my analogy was less about the technical difference between the two, and more so the attitude of the participants. Sajam has discussed many times that tutorials need to be more clear, have more frame data, and more diverse dummy options need to be present so that what a player needs to do in a specific situation is a clear choice for them. "What are my options?" and "When/how do I use them?" Right? But in true form, these tutorials require players to be self-reflective and understand what happened in order to change. This is where the nebulousness you stated exists, because the difference in a mistake or success occurs in a fraction of a second's time, and changes with the rules of the game.
Observation, application, execution.
That's the gradual evolution of skill which varies on an individual basis.
yup you grow with all these to need to use them on a case by case bases
mainly when T7 goes on sale (i mean Vs a seemly new player spamming think that's key to a win to has zero knowing of frames, safe moves etc)
and we all lack one to excel in another or only excel in execution *or win by a wonky Tekken 7* thing but who hasn't by now lol
I NEVER play fighting games. I stopped playing over a decade ago before I was even aware of high level competitive play. What got me into watching competitive fighting games was the jargon. Looking at the language of a subculture from an anthropological perspective is always interesting. The deeper/more complex the jargon the more interesting the subculture.
Can confirm. Literally don't play fighting games at all, they are my favorite esport to watch and FGC content creators are some of my absolute favorites. Still miss The Recipe
Same here. I've watched Aris, Sajam, and Maximillian's content regularly for years now and the closest thing to a fighting game I play is the occasional Smash. Fighting games are awesome because of the cool, flashy stuff that comes out of badass characters. Its like a dual-layer movie, the characters get to battle it out, and the content creators get to improve and it all comes together to form an amazing narrative experience.
6:40 might just be the best timed shoutout ever
Lmao it always impresses me how he always manages to plug the sub's name into whatever he is talking about at the time.
"anti-air difference" im dead
I feel like this also applies to what I’ve seen of people saying “older game was better, this one sucks.” People have said it (with varying degrees of accuracy) about every new installment or fighting game. Strive is so stiff, why didn’t they make it more like xrd. Man, xrd sucks, go play ac+r. Ac+r is a dead game, play a popular arcsys game like dbfz. Dude, don’t even bother with dbfz, play a real tag fighter like mvc3. Man, mvc3 is garbage, just play mvc2. Only mashers play tag games with stupidly long combos, play a footsie based game where you have to think like sf5. Man, sf5 is booty batter buttcheeks, play sf4 instead. Sf4 is so much worse than third strike, just play that. Man, FUCK third strike, sf2 super turbo is where it’s at, just think about the good old arcade days! Man, super turbo is archaic, play a modern game, I hear there’s a new guilty gear coming out! And so on and so forth until the end of time 😅
I think the thing is you are looking at "people" as a single entity that should have a consistent opinion. When that's varying opinions for multiple people.
You get into and find a favorite fighting game. No matter what, the next release is different. Online is bad so you might have to follow the trend so you can play local more often. Nowadays, not only are new games different, they're simpler, still have bad netcode, aren't doing things that would increase player retention or but are simultaneously focused on esports. Your anime fighter is now street fighter, despite the contention surrounding the game since release. No game is doing what could and should be the standard in fighting game quality. It will take an outside force, like the League fighter or a quarantine to finally change things up
Ahegaliant oh I agree, so much of fighting games are becoming centralized around certain ideas rather than appreciating the things that make, for example, guilty gear different from street fighter. I don’t understand what’s happening in KI at all, but I love watching and appreciating it for its uniqueness. That’s what bothers me about both new fighting games becoming similar to each other and people just saying, “go play/watch this instead!” Both are missing out on how the uniqueness of these games not only makes them fun, but builds different skills and abilities as a player. Fighting game fans want this uniqueness to continue and grow more, with better user features, not regress due to a misunderstanding of what makes these games appealing to new players. And your point on an outside force being needed seems spot on. (Which is unfortunate in a way, but that’s a different discussion) I hope that some new fighting game comes along and just absolutely shocks the system into action. Give us a story that actually helps people learn, great netcode and lobbies, ACTUAL ease of entry with real depth and not just devs saying that while only simplifying games, etc. 🙂
Roozel that’s a fair point, I feel like my initial comment got more and more hyperbolic as I typed lol 😅
it depends, sf5 was thrash compared to most fighters at launch thats why people hated it so much, without even mentioning other problems, nowadays its ok because its been improved upon years, people grew fond of these games over time.
I think Sajam underestimates the problem in League right now. It's become well known that the report system does not function properly so it has become very common for people to literally take games hostage because theyre upset, play on a smurf and troll if the game goes bad etc. I agree that every game has things people love complaining about but the "shit show" in the reddit thread isnt just something annoying. Everyone who plays league knows that the game itself has become frustrating even when you are winning because of how well known it had become that you can avoid punishments very easily. I've played league since 2014 and have never been less interested in playing than I am this season, even though I've been climbing and improving the actual games have been a full time baby sitting job because of how well known it has become this season that the report system is broken. It's not about winning or losing anymore, it's about not being able to play without a headache lol
The problem with League is the very design of MOBAs in general. Imagine if a fighting game round took 30 minutes to an hour to finish. Now imagine for 20 of those minutes you got your ass kicked so hard that there is literally nothing you can do to win, but you aren't allowed to quit. Forcing people to play a game that they know they'll lose is always going to lead to disaster. MOBAs in general and League in particular is designed to snowball so that its incredibly difficult to make a comeback. Its no surprise that the vast majority of people in that situation would just choose to cut and run and save themselves the aggravation. But they CAN'T cut and run because MOBAs punish you for leaving. People tend to get pretty resentful when you force them into that kind of situation, and there is no limit to the creativity of resentful people. Its a "if I have to be miserable playing this lost game, then EVERYONE is going to be miserable with me" kind of mentality. Every aspect of MOBAs besides character abilities are designed to be as awful to interact with as possible.
@@matrix3509 but that's not even the big problem most people at plat+ in league are willing to ff15 in a lost game but people ego the fuck out in games they can win but they aren't carrying. They would rather lose a winnable game then play around someone else. It's super frustrating because one person "can't" be the deciding factor in whether their team wins but you can easily determine if your team loses
Overwatch for sure. Watching pro teams is fun, playing around 5 clowns to have an even okay game is stressful.
it's mainly since randoms can't have great team work, be in sync to lack synergy which sadly common in team based modes to MOBA's or very common in league to all the riot games owned things
to in the real comp modes specifically! since those like winning yes, but all think to want all to follow a game plan randoms surely don't follow a game plan when playing.
"Why don't y'all just find good teammates?"
Finding teammates that will play regularly AND have a similar schedule AND are good AND not quit, is just the worst.
It's like most of the games
Because pro play even compared to high level play, it's different
It's simply not the same games and that's the beauty of it
I do play a lot of games, and all of them it's the same
The game you're watching will never be the same game you're playing
🤡
It's REALLY difficult to have a consistently good competitive experience in pretty much any team-based pvp game when you're not queueing with a full group. Matches will simply be won or lost based on factors not under your control a fair percentage of the time when you queue with randoms who refuse to cooperate with the team.
I will say there's at least one difference between the online experience of MOBAs and 1v1 fighting games. When asking about where to find a good source of info to get started, I've only ever been immediately told to uninstall by MOBA players.
That makes me think, could it be because of install base?
FG's are still a niche genre so the community tends to help newbs willing to learn. While MOBAs are "too big to fail" so they can afford to "discourage" these "filthy noobs".
@@malcovich_games I think that's part of it, but as someone who plays and enjoys both MOBAs and FGs, I think it comes mostly down to the team-reliance of MOBAs. Sometimes you feel like you're spending 90% energy trying to manage randoms' toxicity and ego and 10% playing the actual game itself, and it gets un-fun super fast.
The worst thing it amounts to in a fighting game is some annoying trash-talk, it affects the actual gameplay to a much lesser degree.
@@jshcalebchang I don't know what it's like for other mobas but in league you get more individual agency over the outcome of games by not trying then you do for trying. It makes winning feel like you rolled good rng which takes away from wins but for some reason and losses feel like you rolled poorly always giving you something to blame. It's very rare I have a league game that actually feels good regardless of outcome but when you do have one it's one the best feelings. It's better to just not play then sit there with the rest of the community chasing that feeling.
They're actually just trying to save you, turn back before it's too late!
@@ElvisMaximus1 This dude gets it.. dont play mobas. Played them for 7 years now and I can tell you they suck massive nuts but are incredibly addicting lmao
Definitely enjoy watching high level DOA than learning it, I love seeing someone take the match with the good read on counter holds.
imagine playing DOA still? lol
but few variables with this *i think*
to this is a general take to good reads to i'm guessing match up based or something.
nothing wrong with people playing the games they enjoy, I too continue to play DOA like I have since the DOA 3 days and I'm not ashamed of it
Playing that game in arcade and mashing buttons is still fun even without competitive.
@@DevilJ432 not saying there is *dang sarcasm don't translate well via text* to hate for the greedy DLC stuff aside just wish FG's had a more chill welcoming vibe & appeal to all ain't over focus on winning to the point of rage quitting & even having smurf and or alts to keep their rank.
@@CylonDorado miss to wish all just had a care free and FUN playing of FG's to all not seeking to be "the best" and whatever.
and also ready to lend a hand out for those seeking it or just reach out anyway i have few times many should but many already know of creators of FG content to prob watch a few tournament matches but don't need a "expert" to teach a new player the basics and the general FG stuff.
I've gotten into watching some Dwarf Fortress youtubers (Shoutout to Kruggsmash) and its a game I have zero intrest in playing.
But I love listening to these DF youtubers plays and generate stories on the fly turning what looks like a litteral mess of ASCII into this Super cool narrative about Dwarfs offering Ettin sacrifices to their home volcano.
God damn that segway from OhWaitDon't was frame perfect! Very well done as always.
i play both mobas and fighting games and can tell you one thing, everyone's mad and a small percent of those people know why
It's really easy to lose context as an entry level viewer. You see the highest quality a game has to offer, the best art a community can make, etc. And you miss out on the work and failure that gets a pro to their level. This is part of why seeing Sajam get his ass kicked in Skullgirls and TFH was encouraging for many watchers, because it demonstrated how everyone goes through the learning period, pros and new folks alike.
At a low level of understanding, its the wacky combos and close comebacks that get really entertaining to watch. At a high level of understanding, there's footsies, resource management, really specific character interactions and knowing really tough combo links and watching them get pulled off. Its kinda why something like Evo moment 37 is a thrill to watch for anyone. You can see its a close as hell comeback with zero understanding, but anyone with some solid knowledge knows how insane the parry timing and consistency was to get down.
the issue being that suits think making their games watered down and simplified will convince that audience to actually buy the games
They might be right! After all, suits are mostly concerned about sales, not regular player size--because players accessing the servers to play online costs them money.
@@malcovich_games what about player retention and a game's longevity?
Scratch Hare Games A lot of money is made in player retention via microtransactions, season passes, DLC, and all that. The cost of a single player accessing a server is insignificant by comparison.
Ahegaliant To that, I think it won't matter. Because, for example, Nintendo doesn't make any more money out of Melee. If Melee had (official) online, it would've cost them more to keep the servers running.
FOGSHIE Well, DLC is still sales they care about. Or Blazblue's/Guilty Gear's/Street Fighter 2-3's business model of forcing you to buy a new game every time there's a major update.
If a game had micro transactions for consumable in game currency or lootboxes then maybe that's used to keep the servers running and more. Then sure. But not every game is an Injustice 2 or MK 11 or Killer Instinct. Every other game bleeds out from server fees and they have to shut it down eventually when they're done selling any more DLC or aren't getting digital/physical sales.
My dad went with me to Evo 2015 I think it was when the guy's stick broke and 2019 and he barely knows anything about games but he's played sports and things for 40 years so there's still that understanding that there's deeper layers even if he doesn't understand the mechanics well enough to know every little thing going on
I have that online ladder anxiety, but worse. I always worry that I'm gonna lose so hard and that my connection is gonna be so bad that its gonna paint me in a bad light with the guy curbstomping me.
BetaManicCommand this used to be me too, but once i got over the bad connection part (in other words I stopped playing delay based fighters), that cut down on my ladder anxiety a lot because I could finally blame myself for losses instead of input delay.
I think many many people have the wrong mentality about team games about bad teammates. If you're good, then you exert pressure on the enemy team yourself, making your teammates seem better than they actually are.
And as much as people crap on Nintendo for not having voice/text chat with randoms in Splatoon, it really does help a lot in reducing the toxicity of the game. It's a common anecdote that the game's director tried going online in a team FPS game and came to... a conclusion.
League players really do hate league though
fact
"Why I quit League and became a Teamfight Tactics/Legends of Runterra player"
Scratch Hare Games LOL
as an adc main i hate bot lane XD
Played league once , Q into bot lobby teammates flame me harder than my dad when I brought back my report card senior year . Literally the game mode meant for learning. gets bullied out didnt even get to experience the bullshit
I think this might not have been the case years ago when fighting games weren't as visually appealing to casual gamers. But with the crazy shit game engines are pulling off now, like Tekken, you don't even need to understand the game mechanics to admire how visually satisfying it is to see a corner pressure. And there's nothing wrong with it; in fact quite the opposite - e-sports needs casual viewers.
Speedrunning and woodturning videos are two things I love watching but will never personally do myself, and they're still tight as fuck. Sajam's got the right of it.
That's why good commentators are very important. They give insight and entertain people who aren't hardcore but still want to watch high level competitive gameplay.
Me everytime I see a pro play charge type characters. How the hell do pros do charge motions and make it look like instantaneous , thats why I cant play Leo or Vatista
Playing a charge character for long enough, they'd get used to how much time to charge and ways to hide the charge.
It’s actually pretty easy to do and I’m not even a pro. Like the other comment mentioned. Hide the charge. While you’re doing one charge move, have your thumb or fingers set to charge the next move.
Part of it is that they start charging the instant the move comes out. Like you can charge during the animation of an attack. That and also they have internalized the exact amount of time necessary to charge and gotten used to it. I can't play charge characters either.
This video is mad old but this topic is one reason why I really like t90s age of empires 2 casting. He does series where he casts no name mid and low elo matches and points out all of the legitimately competitive ways players are engaging with the game at whatever level they're at. I'm sure there's something similar for fgc, I just don't know about it because I don't play fgcs I just watch sajam wik and random casts/streams.
That's me in mtg hahaha, I love to think, create and assemble new decks. After the decks is complete: Whats next?.
you queue up against another temur reclamation
Shandalar with a 2016 mod
You post it on tappedout and never spend the money or time . I've made literal hundreds of decks . And then just deleted the decklist cause I have no want to play the game.
I 100% felt this way about SFIV and MVC3; I couldn't stand playing them, but loved watching them. Same for a few other fighting games these days.
me: thinks to play Tekken 7
also me: aw shit gonna play Tekken 7 again 😂
I was a casual before I started getting better, I watched Momochi vs Daigo didn't understand why but it looked so fucking cool so I had learn it 2016-2020 it's worth it
So true. I love watching KI, but there's no way I could develop the reflexes and execution needed to play it.
I was a watcher for almost a decade until I quit FPS games and started learning SFV. Now I love fighting games :D
I have a lot of difficulty to enjoy watching something I dont understand. For me the tension comes from knowing (or rather fearing for) what comes next. Like infiltration picking up Juri vs Gamerbee or Justin with akuma vs fchamp's Phoenix and Doom. The moment of truth becomes much more "WOW HE DID THAT" if you know that akuma has an invincible hyper for example. At least for me that's how it works.
Its really weird that some people believe that you cant enjoy watching a competitive fighting game , or any games in general casually. My dad and i watches evo every year together for example, and he never touched a fighting game
The longer Sajam's hair gets the more attracted to him I become
100% agree with you. I haven’t played a fighting game in months but still watch your content. (Mainly haven’t played because of work and computer troubles rip) but still
My obsession with Claire Saffitz was attacked in this video.
I got into fighting games because Ultra David and James Chen made it sound really interesting. I don’t think less of people that would rather watch (I do that with chess) but I think I’d rather watch other stuff if I didn’t intend to play fighting games at all.
If I get hit by round start dash dragon rush I Have every right to be mad lmao
Bruh, just jump back. That covers all round start options.
Jackal VonStone it’s a joke man
dude Sajam's hair is fucking top tier.
Thanks Senpai! Knowing this, I can rest easy.
Are Melee players the only ones who don't hate their game?
4:29 the quote is right.
most us who understand the FGC lingo to stuff get what's going on with FG events to some i've seen posted on IGN's channel with those not in the loop who prob were lost on "wait what a mixup" "what's a DP?" etc i remember know knowing simple terms good some years ago to i know them real clean now *hope FG dev's make a Smash like How To play* that's done/ narrated by That blasted, is a dream.
I love the "Word on the Street" series for this. Is there really no Smash equivalent for Word on the Street?
Yeah, I'm like this lol. Probably just because I want to open the game and just be as good as people on tournament streams, which *logically* I know is impossible, but I still do it subconsciously. All that ends up happening is I get mad too quickly and shut off the game.
It's weird because the way I learn languages is just throwing myself at speakers and talking like a caveman while gradually getting better (and also lots of reading), but for some reason I can't do it for video games.
I still show everyone I know Evo moment 37 because I know that everyone can enjoy how cool it looks
You get into and find a favorite fighting game. No matter what, the next release is different. Online is bad so you might have to follow the trend so you can play local more often. Nowadays, not only are new games different, they're simpler, still have bad netcode, aren't doing things that would increase player retention or but are simultaneously focused on esports. Your anime fighter is now street fighter, despite the contention surrounding the game since release. No game is doing what could and should be the standard in fighting game quality. It will take an outside force, like the League fighter or a quarantine to finally change things up
i feel like fighting game is always going to be more fair than any team game because most of the time you only have at most 20% of the control to your outcome, imagine having the flip 4 coins and needs to land on heads at least 3 times to have a chance at winning even if you performed perfectly for urself
I started the watching and not playing From Starcraft. I enjoyed playing till I reached a point of having tendonitis and didn’t wanna go through that again. Nowadays I watch a lot of esports that I stopped playing the games all together, for a couple of reasons such as love to continue watching the storyline’s unfold, or just love to watch high level of play, and find the game annoying for reasons (bad servers, bad pc, trash netcode). I think it’s very normal to be interested in watching something. I grew up playing sports and video games because my friends circle was like that. I loved playing sports but found em so boring to watch. Not the same story on Esports.
I still question the idea that fighting games are the hardest genre of games, when you can place a complete noob in any game and they all will have problems with something
it's still true tho, many not jump into FG's for the fear of losing when all even "the greats" lose to losing is baked in outright shouldn't even care about winning 1st off on FG's should want to learn to be some what competent, play Arcade mode or Trials, figure the mechanics out and NOT rush to go online mainly ranked!
most fear losing yea and most over focus on winning when the goal is growth. go for growth over ether winning or losing.
Hmm... when you put it that way, there's a value in figuring out which genres have the better "complete noob" experience... and how to improve it so that the player remains engaged and interested even after suffering losses and (in team games) being told to uninstall the game.
Eventually every game becomes more of a game of numbers and percentages when it gets old enough. With the amount of resources available, there's very rarely things you just haven't seen before if you play long enough.
I'm definitely "guilty" of this, I'm really into the theory of fighting games, I respect the talent of high-level players, but I'm too easily salted to ever really get into them on a competitive level. I love to watch folks popping off, though.
I had a different experience with dragon ball fighterz, I was playing against this guy who probably had 10,000 matches online. He would block everything, and he would constantly cross me up. It was really fun playing against him and I felt like he could compete with the professionals. Later that day I watch a professional match and I felt like they couldn't do what my opponent was doing earlier. Then again, offline matches are a different thing since it's much faster, much less delay, and a lot less time to react to your opponent.
Connection is definitely the biggest issue for me. Somehow I manage to drop autocombos once in a while.
this rings pretty true because I play 2d fighters and have ZERO understanding of tekken or soul cal but still find them fun to watch
its not as if i need to play tekken or soul cal to know someones getting their ass kicked
I agree that some people use teammates as an excuse but I don't fully agree with your take on it.
Honestly, because of teammates, I don't feel like I have the rank I should in League. I feel like I might deserve a higher or a lower rank because sometimes my teammates carried me and sometimes they screwed me over. In general, I don't really like playing with teammates because the victory or the lost does not feel deserved. Playing fighting games I make a lot of excuses as you say, but in the end I know everything falls on me.
accountability is a myth
i've never seen it irl
I mean twitch viewership would be extremely small for tournaments if only the guys that played it watched. Thats why there's a huge disparity between viewership of tournaments and of top players' streams. You know those that watch brianf are active sfv players because its a great source to learn and improve. On the other hand, everyone thats kinda interested in fighting games watch tournaments, heck, even those that hate sfv watch every sfv event if the twitch chat is anything to go by.
Yeah, I haven't been able to play fighting games regularly. I prefer playing with friends, but I haven't had friends who want to play with me for quite a while. Plus, my favorite fighting games all have shit netcode. Hopefully, Strive will get their lobby system figured out so at least that point can change.
Damn, are you me? I prefer playing with friends, and they are fairly close by so delay based is fine when playing with them but not as much with randoms. But, all my friends who play havent played in a long time. And my favorite games are all delay based (until Strive, hopefully they change the lobbies). Though, I also have an issue where I get anxiety before playing with randoms because I'm worried, not about losing, but about disappointing them and not being a good opponent; since I can't see or hear randoms. A game I like having rollback would help encourage me to do it more at least, though
@@ZariLutus Netcode problems aside, don't worry about disappointing opponents. If you are matched up against someone much better than you, they won't remember you in the long run anyway. If you're matched against someone much worse than you, it's not your fault if you crush them. Just focus on enjoying the game and getting better.
I might be alone on this, but I rarely feel this way, I often feel like the opposite a lot of the time. For example, I hate watching Soccer, but I like playing it with my friends
Someone said 'Top Diff' the other say saying how much I swamped Fiddle and Sett and I felt pretty good about it lol. I just got back into playing LoL so Id never heard someone say that before so I was like 'wtf' lol
This video is aimed at me and I don't like how I ticked every box of his list.
On another note, there if you watch enough you understand the concepts, especially if you get good commentary from people who do. Hell, even those who do color commentary. When Steve pop's off, regardless of if someone knows shit, they know somethings going down.
Edit: I still have to say that 6:48 Basically every example you give other than the game is laggy is something that you blame yourself for. that's the reason most people suggest it's easier to lose a team game because the excuse is pushed to someone else. Any excuse admitting you blame yourself is an admission of defeat. MY character can't beat YOUR character, that mixup is unfair, I can't deal with that.
At the same time, I know people who hate playing team games because they will do this, they hate it when a player doesn't do their job expertly and because of that only play 1v1 games so they don't feel so salty about a loss.
What's your thesis?
Oh yea I am definitely one of those people that watches Binging w/ Babish but doesn't cook ^_^
Friend of mine has me play ARAM with her in LoL. I haven't played since like 2014. Damn near every character I'm like "I have no idea what's going on. Oh...this looks cool." *dies for trying it*
I've definitely spent more time watching CPT and NLBC than actually playing SFV.
I always take full blame on fighting games, either being pressured or my moves were read.. I can't take blame if my teammates decide to feed an enemy on MOBAs.
> Getting smoked by Bardocks LLL
Auto-combo difference.
im gonna start saying anti air diff. that shit had me rolling
1:35 holy fuck i feel personally attacked
I enjoy watching starcraft but I don't play bc it's rough on my hands, which are already injury prone.
I enjoy watching fighting games but I don't play because I don't have the time to get good enough for me to be personally satisfied with my progress.
I enjoy watching league, but I only really enjoy playing with friends bc randoms can be so toxic.
I 100% agree on the main point on the video, but I do think that some communities hate their game more then others. Lol or ow players are much less happy overall the fgc members in my experience at least.
There was recently post about the same topic in League of Legends subreddit and totally blew up, lol community +1 this video.
Edit: Ok I kept watching and you saw that post :D
"How many fighting game players have you ever met that have taken full accountability for their losses" *Raises hand* Its me. I do that. Even when Skullgirls happens, its my fault for doing the thing that let Skullgirls happen.
Im the king of getting bodied online in most games i played but i still have fun playing and watching
If you think about it League is just a fighting game with 4 teammates and 5 opponents.
I mean, I watch a lot of dota 2 but it's like a year since my last played match...
I feel like I am/can be competent in almost any game I play. The only thing is I lack self confidence so I feel like I couldn't play anything Amateur/Professionally.
That could be a mentality problem but not for the reasons you may be expecting... ya should not have to feel a game has a skill requirement before enjoying it. You could find other competent/casual players and fight them, or find a good level in your game's ranking system and try to maintain it.
I sometimes see pro League of Legends highlights and have no clue wtf is going on or why it's hype cause there's so much going on I don't know where to even look half the time.
The main problem with highlight videos is they tend to leave out the slowmo replay, where the commentators go into detail. You might have a better clue if the highlight videos left that in, or you watched a full match.
I love watching Vs games. I'm trash, but MVC3 gets me hype to watch lol
I absolutely hate playing online. I love the games, I like playing them offline, I enjoy learning them, but online is really awful. The only online experience that is close to decent to me is Killer Instinct. Everything else feels awful to play.
Mortal Kombat 11 has a decent online experience also.
Not in my experience. MK11 is an especially confusing thing to me, because everybody says it's good, but to me it feels like I'm playing underwater even in the absolute best matches, and when it's bad, it's REAL BAD, like I can't walk a step forward and then block kind of bad.
Agreed entirely, with the only caveat being: if you don't know shit about the game, keep your opinions on game balance out of my face. The super casual/watch only fans tend to complain so much about high tier characters while having no understanding of why they're actually tiered highly, it's nauseating
Rainbow 6 Siege is the only thing I can think of that I enjoy to play more than watching.
That segway was Z Tier
I know there's one complaint is nearly always valid in FGs: the online is trash.
I love BB then I go online, I need to predict the fucking future to land a 2k combo, it fucks my brain. I really want a good online environment to let me die in peace not in frustration.
Fahkumram: hurtbox difference.
The more I understood FGs, the more it became apparent that you can dump the salt of a 40-50 minute match in a MOBA in 3-5 minutes of playing a ranked match in fighting games. I had to quit MOBAs after that. Actually, FilipinoMan's Rose at Evo Pools made me quit MOBAs cold turkey. It was probably the most boring match I watched that Evo. But I could feel his opponent's salt rise as the poor guy got near double perfected 4 rounds straight 90 seconds each.
Mfs who love to go on a car everywhere but never learned to drive themselves
I'm the guy who loves fighting games but doesnt understand them
i don't play league or the main league mode since all focus on winning to consistent changing meta it's too much.
FG's yea got bunch of characters, moves, frames, recovery, not safe, some hate x Vs y match up etc but it's more tolerable *then insert FG has bad netcode* which sure is the main issue but i love viewing FG's, fortnite (yea i said it), osu (remember that DS game elite beat agents it's pretty much that) when i'm tired to play them to games i have a ok to fair bit of knowing of what's going on to game i like if i don't i maybe won't.
surely not a garald quote to entire video also on this exact subject *of course he nails it* and it's true most us aren't good in x game to seeing "the greats" do what is deemed "impossible" in it has the many factors of awe, amazement to then YOU want to do it too! great better get ready to grind, use the tool that exist (hopefully) to get good you won't be like eyemuscian in a week just the facts.
BUT if you lab, take insight of tech, even reach out in the nice manner to enjoy the process you'll grow and over time you'll be a semi decent yoshi main but were all different and learn at a different pace.
I can attest to being both ends of the spectrum in terms of viewership vs understanding. When I was a kid I really enjoyed watching high level Tekken Tag Tournament 2, I watched every major tournament streamed by spooky after evo 2013 and I just watched for the combos and the hype moments. Fast forward until now and I've grown into loving high level play of almost every fighting game because I'm intrigued by the decision making by the players at the top level. While I think that it's better to understand what you're watching, I think I had more fun watching when I was younger but that might just be because I liked the older games more. Man I miss usf4/ttt2/umvc3 era so bad lol
Shit happens to me in Dota 2 everytime it's TI season
Must be *this* tall to MAKE SOME NOISE
Professional content creator and tournament commentator argues for watching games instead of playing them. No agenda there. :P
Seriously, I prefer to play over watch almost a 100%. Once I kind of figure out a fighting game I almost entirely lose interest in watching it. The game I watch the most of is by far Super Mario Maker 2 because that shit is crazy but I can't afford a Switch to play it myself.
But if other people enjoy watching fighting games more power to them. People should do what they enjoy, not what other people enjoy or what they're told they should enjoy.
I'm this way about Valorant.