I think these two, the Metaspeed Sky, and the Endorphin Pro+ are my favorites. I think it is an interesting question as to if the slightly lower stack and slightly more flexible super shoes could be faster at the 5k. They may allow you to be a bit more explosive in the calves, but I think there is also a balance. Some amount of added flexibility while maintaining some rigidity is probably preferable. The Streakfly may have gone too far in the soft and flexible direction to be a competition to these two. It feels closer to the Rebel v2, which is still quite fast and comfortable as a trainer, but a bit too soft/flexible/undirected to feel like a true super shoe competitor at shorter distances. The Takumi Sen 8 strikes that balance really well though in my opinion and could actually be a real competitor at shorter distances. The Metaspeed Edge and Deviate Elite kinda do this as well. The Takumi Sen 8, Fuelcell Pacer's plate, and Dragonfly's pebax plate inclusion make me think Nike did intend the Streakfly more as a value versatile fun fast trainer than a Takumi Sen 8. That would make sense since the Vaporfly is already so capable and light across shorter race distances.
I have a question: there's a lot of talk about energy return with fast shoes and nowadays we have all sorts of technologies, but how do these supershoes compare to... well, nothing? What if the runner is literally racing barefoot or with a pair of minimalistic shoes? Is the energy return 100% of what the athlete puts on the ground if there's no foam? Granted, there's no cushioning to "soften the blow" but purely in terms of how much elastic energy you can re-use while running.
I would assume the energy return from a traditional flat would be zero. They aren't bouncy, they don't return any energy to your legs, they are literally there to be as lightweight as possible.
I think the plate helps... I think if one just does a 100m sprint, they can be equally quick (barefoot or a supershoe like vaporfly), but any greater distance than that the bounce from the foam and support from the plate helps the feet stay fresher longer! Did you test it yourself? I reckon the energy loss in the interface between your feet and the ground(the shoe) is compensated by retaining more energy in your legs by keeping them fresher!
Spending that much money for either shoe, and using them almost exclusively for the 10K, which one do you think will keep its "pop" and be more durable longer?
I agree with your conclusions as to distance - i find vaporfly sole is not so great in wet or anything greasy whereas adidas excels. An alternative is Saucony Endorphin Pro+ which i think is great for Half and lower, not tried a marathan. Much was made that the upper on the vaporfly 2 was better than than 1 and agree on the toe as it doesn’t collapse as much but the rest of the upper I find the vaporfly 2 quite baggy and not a great fit whereas the fit on the Adidas is a lot better in my view for the Takumi and the Adios Pro 2
@@chrisvarelabenitez4690 does ts8 leave the legs beat up after a hard workout? i already have endorphin pro 3 for longer distances but i want a faster one for shorter workouts
@@edusalas6913 If you are doing it on track I would heavily advise dragonfly or air zoom victory spikes, if you don’t want to wear spikes, i’d say sen 8, nike streakflys, or you can try a higher stack shoe, vaporfly, adios pro etc.
As a fan of the Adios 6 and the torsion bar system, the rest of the Adizero line and their medial side cutout gives me too much cause for concern. As someone who is sensitive to pronation with shoes that tend to crash in too much on the medial side. Haven't tried the Vaporfly, but I do own the Alphafly (with limited KMs on them), and the Alphafly feels divine...so far. Hoping that impression continues as I mix it in on my last few long runs before my May 8th marathon. Thanks for the content!
I own both the Adios 6 and Takumi Sen 8’s and really enjoy both shoes. I sized my Takumi’s a half size down from my Adios’ which gives me the same length as the Adios and a very similar lockdown to the Adios, just in a stripped down version. I’ve had no issues with either cutout in the Takumi at any pace. The shoe is very stable and the grip is incredible. If you enjoy the Adios 6, I would highly recommend the Takumi Sen 8 in your shoe rotation.
Exactly what Matt said. The Takumi is very stable and more than anything you feel the cut out on turns like on the track. It’s a magical shoe. The Adios Pro 2 is the one you probably wanna stay away from.
Just raced in the Vaporfly 1 and I felt super light and fast... I must say that I had been training in the alphafly 2 and also Vaporfly 2. I tried the Takumis in the store, and they felt SUPER bulky, maybe they would do the work for recovery, but i dont think they would meet the requirements for a race.
I'd argue if you found it super bulky then it wasn't this shoe you tried. I've got this shoe, as well as the Alphafly V1 and Vaporfly V2, and this shoe doesn't feel remotely bulky.
The day the shoe companies veered away from "racing flats" is the day runners started losing focus. "Nering out" on Shoe TECH. Making a shoe with 56mm stack height at the heel. A shoe (Adidas Prime X) that's actually illegal in competition. What companies SHOULD be doing is going back the days of the "Racing flat" whee "road feel" is vital and training/conditioning/coaching MORE important...than the dhoe. Are the guys at Struttgart, Germany (Porsche) thining along the same lines as running shoe engineers? "Ya YAA ...MORE cushion in the tire....SOFTA shocks ...so at end of race driver doesn't feel beat up!!"....the shoe is akin to the tires. In a sports car we WANT raod feel/trip. Likewise race cars. More so even....A shoe that works so well for the reunner you don't know it's there. e.g. Nike Streakfly..
Perfect comparison! Helps me a lot!! I chose TS9.
(Watch at 1.5x... bro is feeling a bit laid-back on this one :))
I would love to try the Takumi Sen 8, but we don’t have it in Canada yet! So I guess I’m sticking to my Vaporfly.
Both are good
I think these two, the Metaspeed Sky, and the Endorphin Pro+ are my favorites. I think it is an interesting question as to if the slightly lower stack and slightly more flexible super shoes could be faster at the 5k. They may allow you to be a bit more explosive in the calves, but I think there is also a balance. Some amount of added flexibility while maintaining some rigidity is probably preferable. The Streakfly may have gone too far in the soft and flexible direction to be a competition to these two. It feels closer to the Rebel v2, which is still quite fast and comfortable as a trainer, but a bit too soft/flexible/undirected to feel like a true super shoe competitor at shorter distances. The Takumi Sen 8 strikes that balance really well though in my opinion and could actually be a real competitor at shorter distances. The Metaspeed Edge and Deviate Elite kinda do this as well. The Takumi Sen 8, Fuelcell Pacer's plate, and Dragonfly's pebax plate inclusion make me think Nike did intend the Streakfly more as a value versatile fun fast trainer than a Takumi Sen 8. That would make sense since the Vaporfly is already so capable and light across shorter race distances.
Yeah its a lot to think about! My list is pretty similar for the shorter distances.
I have a question: there's a lot of talk about energy return with fast shoes and nowadays we have all sorts of technologies, but how do these supershoes compare to... well, nothing? What if the runner is literally racing barefoot or with a pair of minimalistic shoes? Is the energy return 100% of what the athlete puts on the ground if there's no foam? Granted, there's no cushioning to "soften the blow" but purely in terms of how much elastic energy you can re-use while running.
I would assume the energy return from a traditional flat would be zero. They aren't bouncy, they don't return any energy to your legs, they are literally there to be as lightweight as possible.
I think the plate helps... I think if one just does a 100m sprint, they can be equally quick (barefoot or a supershoe like vaporfly), but any greater distance than that the bounce from the foam and support from the plate helps the feet stay fresher longer!
Did you test it yourself?
I reckon the energy loss in the interface between your feet and the ground(the shoe) is compensated by retaining more energy in your legs by keeping them fresher!
Spending that much money for either shoe, and using them almost exclusively for the 10K, which one do you think will keep its "pop" and be more durable longer?
Which shoe are you picking in this head to head?
Vaporfly, faster feel (less flex) and more comfortable upper.
Takumi Sen seems like a shoe I’d love for workouts and maybe even races. I wouldn’t want to wear the vaporfly for training.
I agree with your conclusions as to distance - i find vaporfly sole is not so great in wet or anything greasy whereas adidas excels. An alternative is Saucony Endorphin Pro+ which i think is great for Half and lower, not tried a marathan. Much was made that the upper on the vaporfly 2 was better than than 1 and agree on the toe as it doesn’t collapse as much but the rest of the upper I find the vaporfly 2 quite baggy and not a great fit whereas the fit on the Adidas is a lot better in my view for the Takumi and the Adios Pro 2
Takumi Sen 8 is very fast compared to the next % 2. I think 5k-10k Takumi / anything above half marathon the next % 2
@@chrisvarelabenitez4690 does ts8 leave the legs beat up after a hard workout? i already have endorphin pro 3 for longer distances but i want a faster one for shorter workouts
Hi. I want to run 1000 mts under 3:00. My weigh is 87 kgs. Takumi is nice for that or what you prefer? Thanks
Track or road?
@@mr.stepbro6422 track. I am between adiós pro 3 and Saucony endorphin pro 3
@@edusalas6913 If you are doing it on track I would heavily advise dragonfly or air zoom victory spikes, if you don’t want to wear spikes, i’d say sen 8, nike streakflys, or you can try a higher stack shoe, vaporfly, adios pro etc.
As a fan of the Adios 6 and the torsion bar system, the rest of the Adizero line and their medial side cutout gives me too much cause for concern. As someone who is sensitive to pronation with shoes that tend to crash in too much on the medial side. Haven't tried the Vaporfly, but I do own the Alphafly (with limited KMs on them), and the Alphafly feels divine...so far. Hoping that impression continues as I mix it in on my last few long runs before my May 8th marathon.
Thanks for the content!
I own both the Adios 6 and Takumi Sen 8’s and really enjoy both shoes. I sized my Takumi’s a half size down from my Adios’ which gives me the same length as the Adios and a very similar lockdown to the Adios, just in a stripped down version. I’ve had no issues with either cutout in the Takumi at any pace. The shoe is very stable and the grip is incredible. If you enjoy the Adios 6, I would highly recommend the Takumi Sen 8 in your shoe rotation.
Exactly what Matt said. The Takumi is very stable and more than anything you feel the cut out on turns like on the track. It’s a magical shoe. The Adios Pro 2 is the one you probably wanna stay away from.
How’s the sizing on the Takumi? Thanks
True to size, just a touch long. Somewhat classic adidas fit.
I thought you were going to say sub 20 5k. Sub 20 4 miles is serious running. I haven't broke 22 mins so know how much work that is. We'll done.
Was this filmed on a trampoline?
It’s not fair to compare the two, vaporfly is too next level hands down winner, talcuming has weird fit and no pop
Just raced in the Vaporfly 1 and I felt super light and fast... I must say that I had been training in the alphafly 2 and also Vaporfly 2. I tried the Takumis in the store, and they felt SUPER bulky, maybe they would do the work for recovery, but i dont think they would meet the requirements for a race.
I'd argue if you found it super bulky then it wasn't this shoe you tried. I've got this shoe, as well as the Alphafly V1 and Vaporfly V2, and this shoe doesn't feel remotely bulky.
How dare! Trail + vaporfly? You heathen!!
I accept this... lol
Adios 6 is a better track shoe than the Takumi. Takumi stack height is much higher (has the same heel stack as an Ultra Boost).
The day the shoe companies veered away from "racing flats" is the day runners started losing focus. "Nering out" on Shoe TECH. Making a shoe with 56mm stack height at the heel. A shoe (Adidas Prime X) that's actually illegal in competition. What companies SHOULD be doing is going back the days of the "Racing flat" whee "road feel" is vital and training/conditioning/coaching MORE important...than the dhoe.
Are the guys at Struttgart, Germany (Porsche) thining along the same lines as running shoe engineers? "Ya YAA ...MORE cushion in the tire....SOFTA shocks ...so at end of race driver doesn't feel beat up!!"....the shoe is akin to the tires. In a sports car we WANT raod feel/trip. Likewise race cars. More so even....A shoe that works so well for the reunner you don't know it's there. e.g. Nike Streakfly..