This was a fantastic video man, really helps to get some insight to the advanced strategies and ideas behind using these techniques. You rarely hear anyone say anything more than "that was a good mixup" in commentary. Really appreciate how in depth you went here.
I'd suggest narrating what you have in the text instead of having viewers read it. I think its easier to listen to you explain while watching the clip instead of reading the text quickly and then switching to watch the clip.
I may do both, bc some people are visual learners. i know when people tell me things it goes in one ear and out the other but when i see it i start to understand it
I like to define the scale first. I call it, logarithmic-ish! 10 = top 5 player (God/Slayer) 9 = top 15 (Demigod) 8 = top 50 (Made top 8 at a major) 7 = top 100 (Made top 32 at a major/Won a local) 6 = top 500 (Made it out of pools at a major/made top 16 at a local) 5 = top 1000 (Made top 50% at a local) 4 = top 2500 (Been to a local tournament) 3 = top 10,000 (Played smash for more than a year) 2 = top 100,000 (Played Smash for more than a month) 1 = top 10,000,000 (Played Smash at least once) 0 = top 7,000,000,000 (Never played Smash) By a scale so defined, I would be 5.5.
@@cruzinki9785 if we are counting loopholes I'm a 7. I won a local in queens going on the same day as a larger tournament in new jersey that all of the good players went to
Im AT LEAST an 8. I really give a lvl 5 G&W CPU some real trouble. It's taken a couple years to arrive here but it couldn't be more worth it. Imma grind more tech for at least another month before I attempt lvl 6 G&W
Considering that I just started playing Melee in June, I'd give myself a 2. A 2 because I've been watching your videos ever since and it's really helped me a lot, and I still can't wavedash consistently XD
I’m a 2. I can do the basics consistantly, 100% of the time, and I have a strong neutral game. There’s a few matchups I need to learn, but I am getting there. I have competed and done fairly well in tournaments before being knocked out by an above average player. All these people claiming to be 7’s or anywhere above 1 while also admitting they don’t have tournament experience, means they really do not know just how low level on they actually are. Sm4sh neutral game and Melee neutral game is so different that how well you can read or do one thing in Sm4sh is not a good metric for your ability to do it in Melee. Also, Sm4sh is a lot more lenient with shortened hitstun, high knockback, rage, staling, and ledge trumping.
Let's start off by saying I'm around a 4 for my skill level. I want to follow that up by saying I appreciate the continuation of you analysis videos since these videos are the ones that help me out the most. I know how to most applicable tech. At this point, my main problem is understand WHEN to perform certain actions over others and why certain choices are better and it is the later part that impedes my own ability to analyze tournament matches well. So again, I thank you for these small chunks of analysis. Maybe this will get me over the slump I'm in.
You guys can practice a lot by yourselves. You'll still have a hard time making it too far in tournaments without a practice partner, but there's a ton to learn. In 2016, there are so many resources for solo practicing, you just have to do it. M2K, PP, and Armada all had periods where they improved a ton, mostly without opponents anywhere near their level. It just comes down to a willingness to grind and improve over time.
+pmac139 armada and pp yeah but m2k lol wtf he was in east coast, if he had never gotten to play so much good east coast players then he'd probably just have stayed a mindless tech skill zombie.
I think there needs to be clarification on analog jumps and aerial drift. At 2:13, for example, Mango is analog jumping backwards (as shown by Marth's jump animation) rather than simply jumping, drifting back, and fastfalling with and aerial. The analog jump backwards creates more initial velocity (combined with backwards aerial drift) and allows him to out-space Armada's approach.
How advanced am I? Probably a 2 or 3...lol The spectrum between Day 1 Scrub and Top Professional (or in your example Mang0) is so huge that any gap as you go up in the scale is extremely and significantly larger than the lower levels, especially when it gets into the greatest and most minute details of what is going on Of course, low level people typically rate themselves higher than they actually are (dunning-kruger effect), so there isn't really any guidance (or set milestones) to better rate yourself with this scale...so if you provided things like 2's can: -SHFFL with >50% success rate on average -Wavedash with >50% rate on average -Can utilize dash dance -Knows how to CC-punish and Shield grab 3's can: -SHFFL with Y% success rate on average -Can control wavedash distances to an extent with Y% success rate on average -Can control dash dance distances -Can link moves together from their punishes and other things like that...i was just making stuff up for those ratings
I would say I'm an 8 at the game. I'm a pro player, not top pro. I'm known at tournaments, am a killer and the best player in my region, and have gotten recognition from Hbox and my Florida crew. If I went to more tournaments or took the game a little more seriously, I can see myself being top50.
2. I can't use l - canceling, wavedashing, etc. consistently. However I feel like I mix-up my play style quite a bit more than most at my level. Also, I play jigs so the wavedashing thing doesn't hurt but the l-cancelling does.
Try to work a lot on aerial drift and L-canceling. Spend about 5-10 minutes L-canceling aerials from full-jump and short-hop heights, then another 5-10 with fast-falls. After that, try controlling your drift as you continue to L-cancel. Make it into a regular routine if you can. By practicing these techniques, you can improve your mobility and combo game. Wavedashing is more of use as an out-of-shield option, since Jig's ground speed is horrendous. It doesn't need to be on your current "to do" list, but consider learning it in the near future.
Really changed the way I bait and approach with Marth. Great video. Having your voice would have been better than just text, so I wouldnt have to multitask so hard.
I mostly agree. This is how I would rank it out: 10 - Top 10 9 - Top 50 8 - Top 100/ top local players 7 - Top 5 finishers at locals (maybe top 10 for things like SSS and top 2 or 3 for smaller ones) 6 - PR players 5 - good but never super high placing 4 - consistently win some sets, but never go too deep 3 - wins some sets sometimes 2 - able to beat absolute noobs but still rekt by anyone above 1 - absolute noobs
I'd say I'm a 3. I've attended a couple tournaments, went 1 - 2 in my first one, came third in singles in my second one. Don't practice as much as I should, since all of my Smash friends play Smash 4, but my tech skill is relatively proficient. Dual maining Marth and Falco at the present. My Marth's grounded movement is probably my strongest point, as well as grab follow-ups (as they should be), and my strengths with Falco are shine pressure, quick decision-making (which I feel is easier with a spacie than any other character because reflex options are so much more potent), lasers, platform movement and combo potential. Hope to be slightly known in my state once I can get out to a few more tournaments and hopefully get some decent results. This video was really interesting btw @SSBM Tutorials, really enjoyed this. Gives a really different insight to "your options are SHFFL or delayed aerials", and really gives a better, fuller understanding to just how deep the Melee rabbit-hole is, even if it's only in terms of minor aerial adjustment.
I'd rather sell myself short than think too highly of myself, that makes me work harder and want to work harder. Since I've posted this comment I've trained 4-ish hours a day and I'd say I'm significantly better in terms of neutral and ledge-game, I've given myself a large amount of different options and learned a few new things, mostly from just messing about in 20XX and playing a few Netplay games, which of course means they'll only translate to local games 25% of the time, but that's better than nothing. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. The scene here isn't too large but it's growing and I want to cement myself as part of it when I get the chance.
5 or 6 I'd say. Techskill is coming together nicely and I've already taken down a bunch of players that have been around for way longer than me, I'm decently high on my regions PR, and I'm starting to play the mental game a lot more. Still, my Techskill, Tournament Nerves, Mindgames and Adaptations need a lot of work, but at least whenever I'm at a bigger tournament, I beat just about everybody I don't know, which is what I set as my goal last year. Now all that's left is winning the catch-up race, so still a lot of work to do.
I'd put myself at a six. I have a long way to go, and I believe in diminishing returns on practice (in terms of raw improvement, not to maintain) so it'll take longer to get from 6-10 than from 1-6, but there's not much I don't understand anymore, it's just execution and consistency and a better understanding of my opponents to keep getting better
I feel like the video went by too fast. I found myself pausing and rewinding a lot to read the text then go back to see how it applies (because everything is so fast and precise in melee. I'm sure you understand) maybe add some slow-mo to show the slight movements and adjustments. AWESOME VID. I DONT PLAY MELEE SO SEEING IT THIS DEEP OPENED MY EYES TO MORE TECH I DIDNT PREVIOUSLY KNOW ABOUT.
Am I the only one cringing at these comments? Kids saying they are a 6 or a 7 becuase they can do the basics consistently but theyve never been to a tournament. Smh. Once you are very consistent with tech skill if you still have no tournament experience you are a 1, maybe a 2 but thats stretching it. Tech skill without utilization definitely means youre a 1. If you can win your locals then you might be a 4. If you make your PR for your state youre probably a 6. If youre somewhere in the top 100 in the world youre a 7 or so. If youre in the top 20 in the world youre an 8. If youre in the top 5 youre a 9. Armada is a 10.
3 I can be really good at times (worth a 6 I think), but I'm mainly very inconsistent. I do have a lot of knowledge on the game though. Very good video, I've been doing that with Marth for a while now, trying to apply it to Fox right now.
Lmao these comments. Apparently, people severely underestimate the levels of this game. There's a reason that most scores in bracket are 0-2 or 2-0. I'd say your 1-10 scale should be logarithmic, which would mean that like, yeah, I'm a 4, but I'm nowhere near a 5, and a 5 is nowhere near a 6, and so on.
Question is somewhat vague as well, because it sounds like technical skill, but it could be interpreted as Experience. Maybe specify what you're looking for?
I'd say I'm a 5. I'm not nearly consistent enough to be any higher. I tend to get about 5/7th in my areas locals when I go. I just honestly have to force myself to play tournaments more and put my practice into real work. I think that's the case for most people in this comment section. Locals are really a good idea because in my experience if you have a close set with someone at a local they might approach you and ask to practice (or maybe you can) and it's not seen as weird. There's also usually a pretty big skill gap in players at locals going from 1 to I'd say what I'd rate a 7-8 so you can also learn a ton from the local area power rank leaders (who usually go to move up the ladder or make some money anyway so they don't mind explaining stuff in friendlies while the casually 4 stock you)
This type of video was very helpful, I'd love to see more of these but next time maybe slow down the clips? And I think I'm a 4.5 in terms of Melee advancement.
I'm a 3, started playing a few weeks ago but I play hearthstone and league of legends competitively so I'm used to fast paced games as well as mind games
i'm not a day 1 scrub, but my execution on the more advanced tech needs work, like multi shines, platform missiling, stuff like that. When it comes to wave dashing and landing i do it VERY consistently, as yoshi i do the perfect waveland pretty regularly but need to get tighter at the drop offs after it, and as far as l canceling goes i need to get more consistent over all. When it comes to melee however i love analyzing the neutral game. Oh and my tech chases can use a little work. i'd actually only give myself a 3 or a 4
2, at most 3. I'm starting to get a hold of the game abd a stronger grasp on fundamentals. Btw Kira, could you do an episode on basic defense in the fundamentals series?
I'd say I'm a solid 2.5-3. Been playing Mele and PM (specifically more PM but more Melee recently) for about 6 months and can *mostly* do techskill consistently. Trying to change my mentality about the game more though as I ironically perform better when fighting lower mid level players, whereas bad players who go for bad options tend to fuck me up even if they're being predictable. Guess I'm too used to mixed bag players.
I do some of the stuff already but that's because I know how to do the footsies game from Street Fighter and a lot of the stuff applies there because that's ultimately where it comes from. Smash Brothers is mainly just hyperactive mid-air footsies.
I'd give myself a 4 or 5. I'm working on my tech and am now able to wavedash and shffl consistently. My dash dancing, neutral, and edge guarding have improved as well, but I'm still probably not even good enough to win a local tournament set.
I say a 4 or low 5....I've played for about a year and a half. I have friends to play but most play lower tier characters. at a small (unofficial) tournament at a video game store I placed 5th and went 1-2 on my last game which was such a close set. I main Marth/falco and I can CC,DD,L cancel, short hop, shffl, and I can use falco lasers okay I guess. The thing that probably brings me down to 4 or 5 is experience,being 15 in school, and being in a small town where no tournament locals really happen. I hope in the near future to travel a lot and participate more. Currently I'm practicing pivots for Marth and I also wanna practice utilizing the different lengths of wavedashing for positioning by adjusting the direction of my control stick.
I'd say that I'm somewhere around a 3 or 4, possibly a 5. I've mastered most of the basic and advanced techniques, have a decent neutral (I think?), solid combos, and I know a few mix-ups. My main problem is, though, that I've never gone to a local, tourney, or ever played online. I've only ever played against a few people in my area, so I can't accurately compare myself to any other players.
Hmm, yeah, there's no scene where I live either. Online can be fun - there are definitely some good/interesting players. I got destroyed by a link once - that should have been an indication to me that there were superior life forms (melee-wise) out there.
It's hard to tell the spectrum of how good players are, but I'm probably a 4 or a 3. I know how the game works, and I know a lot of character specific stuff. I have good to decent tech skill when playing any top tier character, and use arial drifts to catch opponents off guard, among other movement techniques. (Falco's short hop dair on shield, drift back and try to catch them rolling in)
5 i know how to take advantage of some techs that help me out in battle and help me win some matches with my lowtier main yoshi such as shield dropping and parries (idk how to spell them) but i miss a lot of my l cancels and i dash dance way more than i should be.
This is how the ratings would be from my point of view. 1. Day one scrub 2. Wins on a casual level (beat your friends) 3. Basic tech skill and execution (wave dash, L cancel, simple combos) 4. Has experience playing with better players 5. Consistent with essential tech (SFFL, JC grab, ledge-dash/ wave-land, etc.) 6. Decent understanding of neutral game, mix ups, adaptation, and mentality 7. Can dominate on a local scale 8. Top level player (most likely top 8 at a regional) 9. Good enough to beat a God 10. A God or very close in skill I would say I'm a 6 based on my interpretation of the ratings. My strong suits are neutral game and downloading habits and my slightly weaker points are tech skill and punish game. By the way, great video one again. Really an eye opener to the crazy high level conditioning and micro spacing/ adjustments that are happening at top level that may go unnoticed by some people.
I'd say I'm about a 5. I miss half my technical input (which I'm desperately trying to improve), and since I'm not good at keeping too many things in my head, I'm mostly a reaction-oriented instead of read-oriented player. I will go for reads sometimes, but only when I'm extremely confident in them. When going against players on my level or higher, I try to rely on as good a neutral as I can possibly put out instead of high damage combos or advanced gimps.
2-3 I can wavedash and do most tech things but generally don't do as well in tournaments due to lack of matchup knowledge and experience. I shall be attending a lot more tournaments over the next academic year to get better however.
probably 4-5. I know most of the essential tech, and can do it on command (wavedashing, dashdancing, wavelanding, l-canceling). My problem is I don't have much experience with other people, so I have trouble implementing it into my playstyle
I'd say I'm a 3. I have some of the basic tech down, but need to expand my knowledge and experience with match-ups, as well as utilizing mix ups and stuff.
I think I'm probably a 3 or 4. I've actually still never gone to a tournament or even gotten netplay, but compared to most people who are going to their first tournament, I think I'm a lot better than virtually all of them. I've been playing the game on and off for years with some people I know IRL, and not only do I have proficient tech skill, I've also overcome the next (much harder) hurdle of figuring out how to actually be able to effectively use it in matches, and not have my neutral suffer due to devoting too much mental power into executing tech skill. I've also been closely following the competitive scene for years; I've been regularly watching tourneys and youtube videos since about the time of Apex 2015, though I've known of the existence of competitive smash for MUCH longer. So I've done my fair share of watching top level play and analyzing the game, and I have a lot of knowledge of it. I still probably wouldn't do very well in a tournament, but I'm betting that if I faced someone else who had also never been to one, I would probably beat them pretty convincingly.
I'm a 4. My tech skill is pretty good (I can shffl l-cancel, and do basic tech 100% of the time, and do things like waveshining and pillaring about 95%. I'm still far from hax level though), and my combo game is pretty solid, but my mental game is pretty bad. I don't have anyone to practice with, so I've never adapted a great mental game.
I'm easily a solid 3. Not quite a day 1 scrub, got some tech down and can beat a 20XX 4.0.5 bot, but I've never been to a tournament for Melee. And of course, I'm struggling with the hardest advanced technique that there is: Sheik's short hop.
I'm a solid 5. My intuition in spacing and punish are good enough to contend with the top in my local scene, but my lack of tech skill prevents me from actually winning tourneys.
the timing between the text and video could use some help I think. I'm reading the text and then the video starts playing snd I miss the example. it'd be good to know when the clip starts because there's so much information in a single frame.
IMO 6, but only because of adderall lmao. Melee is one of the few games I find near impossible to master, I used to love this game as a kid and after about 12 years I learned about Dolphin and Slippi and it's still super strange to me how I went from playing this game as a kid and only playing dr mario bc he did a flip when he jumped and it looked cool. I even had to play melee in slow motion when I was younger and that was against bots. Very thankful this game has such a live community to this day, and hopefully I can be a better marth now.
I guess 5. I can do most advance tech, just not consistently. Spaghetti inputs are so real .-. , but i guess having decent fundamentals kinda balance that inconsistency.
If the scale is using the entire spectrum of players then obviously I need to rank myself a 3 or a 4 at most. I regularly go even with a pretty good, technically solid fox player, and I drop inputs and tech constantly. I am disciple of Borp, however. You would be surprised at how effective a limited playstyle can be.
3.5 I have some fundamentals and have decent movement, but get stuck in habits like always sweet spotting ledge. I also miss a few big opportunities to punish and need to capitalize on my upthrows to build more percent (as marth). I need to play more people to get better.
on a scale of 1-10 i am about a 5, i can do a bunch of tech pretty well such as multishining (i main falco) and im not awful and shield drops. Where my game really falls apart is actually applying that tech into practice, at best my application is limited to a double shine nair on shield. I also rely too heavily on lasers in the neutral game so once my opponent gets in i find it hard to come back.
I know it seems generous but i would put myself at a 7, I Can do all the basic tech (Wavedash,L-Cancel,DI etc...) As well as some of the more advanced stuff like ledge dashes and smash di etc... I also play Fox/Falco/Falcon/Marth and Sheik Pretty Proficiently. The only issue i have is getting read on recovery or just neutral game in general. Also I main Fox/Marth with a Pocket Falco with a joke mario for fun.
Probably a 3. I was a 1 when I was learning, 2 when I learned how to move really well and had a good combo potential and leveled up to 3 when it finally clicked on me that I have to do mixups AND actually started doing them, and also my defense strats are getting better and better.
I'd say i'm maybe 6 or 7. My neutral game isn't too bad, i practice a standard amount of 30 to an hour every day so my hands don't wear down too much, and i've been doing that for 7 to 9 months. Becoming familiar with the techs that take a little more time to do, like the pivot. Focusing on my falco, been breaking him down with his movements or laser and started applying both. Getting used to shine-waveland. I'm pretty sure if i had a much better sleeping schedule i'd play so much better. I use Marth(sometimes, when i get bored) Roy(lol he's pretty fun and satisfying to use, especially when you outplay the opponent so hard) Captain Falcon(not so much lately since i am focusing on Falco) Dr. Mario/Mario(pretty fun to use and his punish game is great) and fox.
I'm probably around a 5(on my worst days)or 6(on my better days) I can do a lot of tech consistently and have Marth, and Fox as mains along with a pocket Puff. Unfortunately I don't really have any results to back this up because my area is really barren when it comes to gaming and I can't afford to go anywhere right now :(
6-7 I'd say. Very very good, comes naturally and intuitively and my tech is great, but still lacking in tournament experience against certain players and matchups.
I'm probably a 4. I know wavedashing and techniques but I really don't have experience fighting real people because I can't find any Melee tournaments around me. If I could find some id go in a heartbeat
I would say I'm 3. I main the spacies (mostly the bird but I use Fox for specifics MU) and I'm getting pretty technical with both of them actually, but I don't often play with really experienced players since almost nobody plays where I am, so my mind games aren't well developped yet :(
I would have to say about 2.5. I can do most basic tech skill, and if I played more it would be more consistent. However, I haven't played much competitively so I can't really compare my game skill outside of a couple locals.
i would say like...a 3 or a 4, I can wavedash but L-cancling I forget and I can't really figure some combos out. I usually find myself playing very slow. (btw I play Marth and Fox, I'll be making use of this video if anything)
I like to think of myself around a 6. My combo game is getting good enough to zero to death most of the cast, but my DI and neutral both need some more work.
I'd say 6. I think I'm between 5-6 but I lean more towards 6. I've beaten ranked players and placed well but I havnt made it out of pools at a major (tho the only one I've gone to is CEO 2015/16 with death pools) and I've made top 16 at locals for quite a while
![All Five Gods Interviews Edit [Re-Upload]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5Zs6MIdi7M/mqdefault.jpg)
![All Five Gods Interviews Edit [Re-Upload]](/img/tr.png)
I'd say i'm 1. I can't wavedash or L-cancel consistently, my neutral is shit, and my mindgame is so bad i could get read by a fucking snail.
I feel this.
I Know this feeling bro ... But i can wavedash...And no L cancel XDD
I can wavedash almost consistently and l-cancel a bit but not enough to ever be a 3 or higher
you dont play nearly enough, you arent born consistent
everyones been there
keep playing and training, espacially against real opponents
This was a fantastic video man, really helps to get some insight to the advanced strategies and ideas behind using these techniques. You rarely hear anyone say anything more than "that was a good mixup" in commentary. Really appreciate how in depth you went here.
0 I can't short hop with bowser
Im definetely a ten. Ive never been to a tourney but i could definetely 5-0 all of the gods easily
Shitpost is shitty. go back to melee hell and complain about sheik some more.
Sebastian Torres Wanna fight me? Im so good my tippers do 3x damage
Doesn't matter when I do the marth spike on you kid
Get ｍｅｍｅｄ
+Sebastian Torres #tookthebait
+Abso of course. I always do.
Sorry for the walls of text in this video. I have some ideas to make it easier to watch in the future!
you finally linked the music
Leave more time with the text on screen before you start the clip. That was just too damn fast most of the time.
why not just pause the video?
I'd suggest narrating what you have in the text instead of having viewers read it. I think its easier to listen to you explain while watching the clip instead of reading the text quickly and then switching to watch the clip.
I may do both, bc some people are visual learners. i know when people tell me things it goes in one ear and out the other but when i see it i start to understand it
I like to define the scale first. I call it, logarithmic-ish!
10 = top 5 player (God/Slayer)
9 = top 15 (Demigod)
8 = top 50 (Made top 8 at a major)
7 = top 100 (Made top 32 at a major/Won a local)
6 = top 500 (Made it out of pools at a major/made top 16 at a local)
5 = top 1000 (Made top 50% at a local)
4 = top 2500 (Been to a local tournament)
3 = top 10,000 (Played smash for more than a year)
2 = top 100,000 (Played Smash for more than a month)
1 = top 10,000,000 (Played Smash at least once)
0 = top 7,000,000,000 (Never played Smash)
By a scale so defined, I would be 5.5.
I'm a 5
Welp I'm a 2
5s rise up
i would have put myself as a 3 but based on loopholes in this scale im a 6.5 lmao
@@cruzinki9785 if we are counting loopholes I'm a 7. I won a local in queens going on the same day as a larger tournament in new jersey that all of the good players went to
Im AT LEAST an 8. I really give a lvl 5 G&W CPU some real trouble. It's taken a couple years to arrive here but it couldn't be more worth it. Imma grind more tech for at least another month before I attempt lvl 6 G&W
I just started playing melee and I can’t tell if you’re joking or not cause I’m trash
@@csmash342 I have no memory of writing that comment but I was definitely joking. Lol. I laughed reading it now.
Considering that I just started playing Melee in June, I'd give myself a 2. A 2 because I've been watching your videos ever since and it's really helped me a lot, and I still can't wavedash consistently XD
I’m a 2. I can do the basics consistantly, 100% of the time, and I have a strong neutral game. There’s a few matchups I need to learn, but I am getting there. I have competed and done fairly well in tournaments before being knocked out by an above average player. All these people claiming to be 7’s or anywhere above 1 while also admitting they don’t have tournament experience, means they really do not know just how low level on they actually are. Sm4sh neutral game and Melee neutral game is so different that how well you can read or do one thing in Sm4sh is not a good metric for your ability to do it in Melee. Also, Sm4sh is a lot more lenient with shortened hitstun, high knockback, rage, staling, and ledge trumping.
3 out of 10
I can play Melee Falco just fine but when I play other characters, It looks as if I'm casual scrub with 10 APM.
A lot of people are only good with a character or two. I'd give myself slightly more credit, if I were you.
yeah, just look at hfox lol
I'll go with n+0.5 where n is the skill of that scrub I beat in an iron man, also known as Laudandus.
Let's start off by saying I'm around a 4 for my skill level. I want to follow that up by saying I appreciate the continuation of you analysis videos since these videos are the ones that help me out the most. I know how to most applicable tech. At this point, my main problem is understand WHEN to perform certain actions over others and why certain choices are better and it is the later part that impedes my own ability to analyze tournament matches well. So again, I thank you for these small chunks of analysis. Maybe this will get me over the slump I'm in.
dis good
3 Im a Luigi main that can wavedash approach and short hop that's it. I never get to practice melee cause my smash friends only play 4
I have the same exact problem. Also, I secondary luigi :)
i can't practive either bc no scene really close to home and my neighbor is shit.
Same here man
You guys can practice a lot by yourselves. You'll still have a hard time making it too far in tournaments without a practice partner, but there's a ton to learn. In 2016, there are so many resources for solo practicing, you just have to do it. M2K, PP, and Armada all had periods where they improved a ton, mostly without opponents anywhere near their level. It just comes down to a willingness to grind and improve over time.
+pmac139 armada and pp yeah but m2k lol wtf he was in east coast, if he had never gotten to play so much good east coast players then he'd probably just have stayed a mindless tech skill zombie.
I'd say a 3. I know everything of how Melee works but I don't have the time to practice all of the tech. I love to play Melee tho
I think there needs to be clarification on analog jumps and aerial drift. At 2:13, for example, Mango is analog jumping backwards (as shown by Marth's jump animation) rather than simply jumping, drifting back, and fastfalling with and aerial. The analog jump backwards creates more initial velocity (combined with backwards aerial drift) and allows him to out-space Armada's approach.
How advanced am I? Probably a 2 or 3...lol
The spectrum between Day 1 Scrub and Top Professional (or in your example Mang0) is so huge that any gap as you go up in the scale is extremely and significantly larger than the lower levels, especially when it gets into the greatest and most minute details of what is going on
Of course, low level people typically rate themselves higher than they actually are (dunning-kruger effect), so there isn't really any guidance (or set milestones) to better rate yourself with this scale...so if you provided things like
2's can:
-SHFFL with >50% success rate on average
-Wavedash with >50% rate on average
-Can utilize dash dance
-Knows how to CC-punish and Shield grab
3's can:
-SHFFL with Y% success rate on average
-Can control wavedash distances to an extent with Y% success rate on average
-Can control dash dance distances
-Can link moves together from their punishes
and other things like that...i was just making stuff up for those ratings
This might be the best video you've made
I would say I'm an 8 at the game. I'm a pro player, not top pro. I'm known at tournaments, am a killer and the best player in my region, and have gotten recognition from Hbox and my Florida crew. If I went to more tournaments or took the game a little more seriously, I can see myself being top50.
3. I can do all of the basic high level techniques consistently but my implementation of them and practice IRL are pretty bad.
2. I can't use l - canceling, wavedashing, etc. consistently. However I feel like I mix-up my play style quite a bit more than most at my level. Also, I play jigs so the wavedashing thing doesn't hurt but the l-cancelling does.
sounds like a 1 tbh
Try to work a lot on aerial drift and L-canceling. Spend about 5-10 minutes L-canceling aerials from full-jump and short-hop heights, then another 5-10 with fast-falls. After that, try controlling your drift as you continue to L-cancel. Make it into a regular routine if you can. By practicing these techniques, you can improve your mobility and combo game.
Wavedashing is more of use as an out-of-shield option, since Jig's ground speed is horrendous. It doesn't need to be on your current "to do" list, but consider learning it in the near future.
MinecrafterK3N Alright, thank you for the tips. :)
Rave Scratch No probs, good luck :)
Really changed the way I bait and approach with Marth. Great video. Having your voice would have been better than just text, so I wouldnt have to multitask so hard.
if youre actually placing yourself anywhere above 5 and youre not PRd or recognizable in any way in your local scene youre severly overrating yourself
I mostly agree. This is how I would rank it out:
10 - Top 10
9 - Top 50
8 - Top 100/ top local players
7 - Top 5 finishers at locals (maybe top 10 for things like SSS and top 2 or 3 for smaller ones)
6 - PR players
5 - good but never super high placing
4 - consistently win some sets, but never go too deep
3 - wins some sets sometimes
2 - able to beat absolute noobs but still rekt by anyone above
1 - absolute noobs
So I wouldn't say severely, but still that would be an overrate
With this scale provided I'd say 4.5
That's not true. There are hidden bosses everywhere that simply don't have the time to commit to melee and make it a bigger thing in their life.
+pmac139 what does pr stand for
I'd say I'm a 3. I've attended a couple tournaments, went 1 - 2 in my first one, came third in singles in my second one. Don't practice as much as I should, since all of my Smash friends play Smash 4, but my tech skill is relatively proficient. Dual maining Marth and Falco at the present. My Marth's grounded movement is probably my strongest point, as well as grab follow-ups (as they should be), and my strengths with Falco are shine pressure, quick decision-making (which I feel is easier with a spacie than any other character because reflex options are so much more potent), lasers, platform movement and combo potential. Hope to be slightly known in my state once I can get out to a few more tournaments and hopefully get some decent results.
This video was really interesting btw @SSBM Tutorials, really enjoyed this. Gives a really different insight to "your options are SHFFL or delayed aerials", and really gives a better, fuller understanding to just how deep the Melee rabbit-hole is, even if it's only in terms of minor aerial adjustment.
You might be selling yourself a bit short. Depending on what kind of region you're in, can really up your score.
I'd rather sell myself short than think too highly of myself, that makes me work harder and want to work harder. Since I've posted this comment I've trained 4-ish hours a day and I'd say I'm significantly better in terms of neutral and ledge-game, I've given myself a large amount of different options and learned a few new things, mostly from just messing about in 20XX and playing a few Netplay games, which of course means they'll only translate to local games 25% of the time, but that's better than nothing. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. The scene here isn't too large but it's growing and I want to cement myself as part of it when I get the chance.
That's great dude, keep it up.
No one can ever replicate Mango, he's the GOAT!
@HungryBox
*wtf
>Calling Mang0 the GOAT in 2016
>using greentext outside 4chan
+Boguardis
TSM boyzzz
Love your videos, man. Keep up the great work! (:
Lol
anyone not saying 1 is either lying or Armada
holy shit so this is what melee top players think.
i think I have just evolved, thanks for posting
5 or 6 I'd say. Techskill is coming together nicely and I've already taken down a bunch of players that have been around for way longer than me, I'm decently high on my regions PR, and I'm starting to play the mental game a lot more. Still, my Techskill, Tournament Nerves, Mindgames and Adaptations need a lot of work, but at least whenever I'm at a bigger tournament, I beat just about everybody I don't know, which is what I set as my goal last year. Now all that's left is winning the catch-up race, so still a lot of work to do.
Probably a 6. Since I'm PRed in my state.
what state?
Mike Hawk Oh North Carolina!
+Om Nom Nom eyy
NC Reppin
REPRESENT! This state is getting really good.
I'd put myself at a six. I have a long way to go, and I believe in diminishing returns on practice (in terms of raw improvement, not to maintain) so it'll take longer to get from 6-10 than from 1-6, but there's not much I don't understand anymore, it's just execution and consistency and a better understanding of my opponents to keep getting better
everyone is going to rate themselves higher than they should guaranteed
You sir are a prophet
I feel like the video went by too fast. I found myself pausing and rewinding a lot to read the text then go back to see how it applies (because everything is so fast and precise in melee. I'm sure you understand) maybe add some slow-mo to show the slight movements and adjustments. AWESOME VID. I DONT PLAY MELEE SO SEEING IT THIS DEEP OPENED MY EYES TO MORE TECH I DIDNT PREVIOUSLY KNOW ABOUT.
Am I the only one cringing at these comments? Kids saying they are a 6 or a 7 becuase they can do the basics consistently but theyve never been to a tournament. Smh. Once you are very consistent with tech skill if you still have no tournament experience you are a 1, maybe a 2 but thats stretching it. Tech skill without utilization definitely means youre a 1. If you can win your locals then you might be a 4. If you make your PR for your state youre probably a 6. If youre somewhere in the top 100 in the world youre a 7 or so. If youre in the top 20 in the world youre an 8. If youre in the top 5 youre a 9. Armada is a 10.
3
I can be really good at times (worth a 6 I think), but I'm mainly very inconsistent. I do have a lot of knowledge on the game though.
Very good video, I've been doing that with Marth for a while now, trying to apply it to Fox right now.
Lmao these comments.
Apparently, people severely underestimate the levels of this game.
There's a reason that most scores in bracket are 0-2 or 2-0.
I'd say your 1-10 scale should be logarithmic, which would mean that like, yeah, I'm a 4, but I'm nowhere near a 5, and a 5 is nowhere near a 6, and so on.
Question is somewhat vague as well, because it sounds like technical skill, but it could be interpreted as Experience. Maybe specify what you're looking for?
3
rhymes with free, which is me :p
I'd say a 6.5, like most I've mastered all of the basic and intermediate tech but there is always more to learn. most of which will come with time
Lol, I'm a 2
6 in Melee, 9 in Project M. I live and breath Project M, perfect movement and great control, but I'm new to Melee, maining Shiek and Marth.
I am 5
If i didn't main Roy and focused on my Shiek and Falco, I'd probably be a seven or eight. But i play for fun.
lol
LITERALLY ME LOL
"A skilled Roy can beat any Fox"
This is true, I once 3-0'd my friend, who is a Fox main, with my Roy XD
Austin Franks it's not that bad of a matchup honestly. just play it like a close ranged marth lol. still a losing one but doable especially on FD
+Sdmac2221 Roy is top tier on FD haha
I'd say I'm a 5. I'm not nearly consistent enough to be any higher. I tend to get about 5/7th in my areas locals when I go. I just honestly have to force myself to play tournaments more and put my practice into real work. I think that's the case for most people in this comment section.
Locals are really a good idea because in my experience if you have a close set with someone at a local they might approach you and ask to practice (or maybe you can) and it's not seen as weird. There's also usually a pretty big skill gap in players at locals going from 1 to I'd say what I'd rate a 7-8 so you can also learn a ton from the local area power rank leaders (who usually go to move up the ladder or make some money anyway so they don't mind explaining stuff in friendlies while the casually 4 stock you)
This type of video was very helpful, I'd love to see more of these but next time maybe slow down the clips? And I think I'm a 4.5 in terms of Melee advancement.
I like your MVC2 style background music
I'm a 3, started playing a few weeks ago but I play hearthstone and league of legends competitively so I'm used to fast paced games as well as mind games
i'm not a day 1 scrub, but my execution on the more advanced tech needs work, like multi shines, platform missiling, stuff like that. When it comes to wave dashing and landing i do it VERY consistently, as yoshi i do the perfect waveland pretty regularly but need to get tighter at the drop offs after it, and as far as l canceling goes i need to get more consistent over all. When it comes to melee however i love analyzing the neutral game. Oh and my tech chases can use a little work. i'd actually only give myself a 3 or a 4
probably a 7 I can do most of the advanced tech, have pretty good edge guarding, and great tech chasing.
2, at most 3. I'm starting to get a hold of the game abd a stronger grasp on fundamentals. Btw Kira, could you do an episode on basic defense in the fundamentals series?
I'd say I'm a solid 2.5-3. Been playing Mele and PM (specifically more PM but more Melee recently) for about 6 months and can *mostly* do techskill consistently. Trying to change my mentality about the game more though as I ironically perform better when fighting lower mid level players, whereas bad players who go for bad options tend to fuck me up even if they're being predictable.
Guess I'm too used to mixed bag players.
I do some of the stuff already but that's because I know how to do the footsies game from Street Fighter and a lot of the stuff applies there because that's ultimately where it comes from. Smash Brothers is mainly just hyperactive mid-air footsies.
I'd give myself a 4 or 5. I'm working on my tech and am now able to wavedash and shffl consistently. My dash dancing, neutral, and edge guarding have improved as well, but I'm still probably not even good enough to win a local tournament set.
I want to see a more definitive neutral guide to melee.
I say a 4 or low 5....I've played for about a year and a half. I have friends to play but most play lower tier characters. at a small (unofficial) tournament at a video game store I placed 5th and went 1-2 on my last game which was such a close set. I main Marth/falco and I can CC,DD,L cancel, short hop, shffl, and I can use falco lasers okay I guess. The thing that probably brings me down to 4 or 5 is experience,being 15 in school, and being in a small town where no tournament locals really happen. I hope in the near future to travel a lot and participate more. Currently I'm practicing pivots for Marth and I also wanna practice utilizing the different lengths of wavedashing for positioning by adjusting the direction of my control stick.
Kira all of what you show us is really cool, but for super newbs like me some more episodes of the very basic videos would be so helpful :(
I'd say that I'm somewhere around a 3 or 4, possibly a 5. I've mastered most of the basic and advanced techniques, have a decent neutral (I think?), solid combos, and I know a few mix-ups. My main problem is, though, that I've never gone to a local, tourney, or ever played online. I've only ever played against a few people in my area, so I can't accurately compare myself to any other players.
Hmm, yeah, there's no scene where I live either. Online can be fun - there are definitely some good/interesting players. I got destroyed by a link once - that should have been an indication to me that there were superior life forms (melee-wise) out there.
10. I beat my friends regularly, Kirby's rock move is so good. I'm going to my first tournament soon I can't wait to get first place.
It's hard to tell the spectrum of how good players are, but I'm probably a 4 or a 3. I know how the game works, and I know a lot of character specific stuff. I have good to decent tech skill when playing any top tier character, and use arial drifts to catch opponents off guard, among other movement techniques. (Falco's short hop dair on shield, drift back and try to catch them rolling in)
5 i know how to take advantage of some techs that help me out in battle and help me win some matches with my lowtier main yoshi such as shield dropping and parries (idk how to spell them) but i miss a lot of my l cancels and i dash dance way more than i should be.
I'm probably a high 3, or a low 4 on this scale. Still struggling getting all the tech down, but my fundamentals are getting reasonably solid.
This is how the ratings would be from my point of view.
1. Day one scrub
2. Wins on a casual level (beat your friends)
3. Basic tech skill and execution (wave dash, L cancel, simple combos)
4. Has experience playing with better players
5. Consistent with essential tech (SFFL, JC grab, ledge-dash/ wave-land, etc.)
6. Decent understanding of neutral game, mix ups, adaptation, and mentality
7. Can dominate on a local scale
8. Top level player (most likely top 8 at a regional)
9. Good enough to beat a God
10. A God or very close in skill
I would say I'm a 6 based on my interpretation of the ratings. My strong suits are neutral game and downloading habits and my slightly weaker points are tech skill and punish game.
By the way, great video one again. Really an eye opener to the crazy high level conditioning and micro spacing/ adjustments that are happening at top level that may go unnoticed by some people.
I'd say I'm about a 5. I miss half my technical input (which I'm desperately trying to improve), and since I'm not good at keeping too many things in my head, I'm mostly a reaction-oriented instead of read-oriented player. I will go for reads sometimes, but only when I'm extremely confident in them. When going against players on my level or higher, I try to rely on as good a neutral as I can possibly put out instead of high damage combos or advanced gimps.
2-3 I can wavedash and do most tech things but generally don't do as well in tournaments due to lack of matchup knowledge and experience. I shall be attending a lot more tournaments over the next academic year to get better however.
probably 4-5. I know most of the essential tech, and can do it on command (wavedashing, dashdancing, wavelanding, l-canceling). My problem is I don't have much experience with other people, so I have trouble implementing it into my playstyle
Just because you can do basic tech doesn't mean you are half of mango. You are probably 1 or 2 tbh.
2 only have a couple of months playing the game but love it.
I'd say I'm a 3. I have some of the basic tech down, but need to expand my knowledge and experience with match-ups, as well as utilizing mix ups and stuff.
maybe a 5? in the sense that I now understand why certain options work in what situation, but still struggle to not go 0-2 in bracket
I'd say I'm about a 5, former PR in NC currently about top 20/25 in the state.
omg kira giving away the real advice. thanks so much, I'm a 6
I think I'm probably a 3 or 4. I've actually still never gone to a tournament or even gotten netplay, but compared to most people who are going to their first tournament, I think I'm a lot better than virtually all of them. I've been playing the game on and off for years with some people I know IRL, and not only do I have proficient tech skill, I've also overcome the next (much harder) hurdle of figuring out how to actually be able to effectively use it in matches, and not have my neutral suffer due to devoting too much mental power into executing tech skill. I've also been closely following the competitive scene for years; I've been regularly watching tourneys and youtube videos since about the time of Apex 2015, though I've known of the existence of competitive smash for MUCH longer. So I've done my fair share of watching top level play and analyzing the game, and I have a lot of knowledge of it. I still probably wouldn't do very well in a tournament, but I'm betting that if I faced someone else who had also never been to one, I would probably beat them pretty convincingly.
I'm either a 5 or 6. I've never been to a tournament, but I've gotten some decent upsets on netplay.
yaay! this video is awesome!
I'm a 4. My tech skill is pretty good (I can shffl l-cancel, and do basic tech 100% of the time, and do things like waveshining and pillaring about 95%. I'm still far from hax level though), and my combo game is pretty solid, but my mental game is pretty bad. I don't have anyone to practice with, so I've never adapted a great mental game.
I'm easily a solid 3. Not quite a day 1 scrub, got some tech down and can beat a 20XX 4.0.5 bot, but I've never been to a tournament for Melee.
And of course, I'm struggling with the hardest advanced technique that there is: Sheik's short hop.
Wow this is amazing. I'm so happy I know about this now! I think I'm like a 3? But I'm probably worse than that
I'm a solid 5. My intuition in spacing and punish are good enough to contend with the top in my local scene, but my lack of tech skill prevents me from actually winning tourneys.
I would say 4. I can wavedash, and l-cancel (if I remember to) and that's really it.
the timing between the text and video could use some help I think. I'm reading the text and then the video starts playing snd I miss the example. it'd be good to know when the clip starts because there's so much information in a single frame.
IMO 6, but only because of adderall lmao. Melee is one of the few games I find near impossible to master, I used to love this game as a kid and after about 12 years I learned about Dolphin and Slippi and it's still super strange to me how I went from playing this game as a kid and only playing dr mario bc he did a flip when he jumped and it looked cool. I even had to play melee in slow motion when I was younger and that was against bots. Very thankful this game has such a live community to this day, and hopefully I can be a better marth now.
I guess 5. I can do most advance tech, just not consistently. Spaghetti inputs are so real .-. , but i guess having decent fundamentals kinda balance that inconsistency.
If the scale is using the entire spectrum of players then obviously I need to rank myself a 3 or a 4 at most. I regularly go even with a pretty good, technically solid fox player, and I drop inputs and tech constantly. I am disciple of Borp, however. You would be surprised at how effective a limited playstyle can be.
3.5 I have some fundamentals and have decent movement, but get stuck in habits like always sweet spotting ledge. I also miss a few big opportunities to punish and need to capitalize on my upthrows to build more percent (as marth).
I need to play more people to get better.
on a scale of 1-10 i am about a 5, i can do a bunch of tech pretty well such as multishining (i main falco) and im not awful and shield drops. Where my game really falls apart is actually applying that tech into practice, at best my application is limited to a double shine nair on shield. I also rely too heavily on lasers in the neutral game so once my opponent gets in i find it hard to come back.
Techskill-wise I'd probably be a 6 but overall I'm a low 4. I'm slowly starting to get the hang of this game though.
I know it seems generous but i would put myself at a 7, I Can do all the basic tech (Wavedash,L-Cancel,DI etc...)
As well as some of the more advanced stuff like ledge dashes and smash di etc... I also play Fox/Falco/Falcon/Marth and Sheik Pretty Proficiently. The only issue i have is getting read on recovery or just neutral game in general.
Also I main Fox/Marth with a Pocket Falco with a joke mario for fun.
prob a 3 wave dashing and l-canceling consistently, but trying to hit harder tech like shield drops and ledge dashes
Probably a 3. I was a 1 when I was learning, 2 when I learned how to move really well and had a good combo potential and leveled up to 3 when it finally clicked on me that I have to do mixups AND actually started doing them, and also my defense strats are getting better and better.
I'd say i'm maybe 6 or 7. My neutral game isn't too bad, i practice a standard amount of 30 to an hour every day so my hands don't wear down too much, and i've been doing that for 7 to 9 months. Becoming familiar with the techs that take a little more time to do, like the pivot. Focusing on my falco, been breaking him down with his movements or laser and started applying both. Getting used to shine-waveland. I'm pretty sure if i had a much better sleeping schedule i'd play so much better. I use Marth(sometimes, when i get bored) Roy(lol he's pretty fun and satisfying to use, especially when you outplay the opponent so hard) Captain Falcon(not so much lately since i am focusing on Falco) Dr. Mario/Mario(pretty fun to use and his punish game is great) and fox.
I'm probably around a 5(on my worst days)or 6(on my better days) I can do a lot of tech consistently and have Marth, and Fox as mains along with a pocket Puff. Unfortunately I don't really have any results to back this up because my area is really barren when it comes to gaming and I can't afford to go anywhere right now :(
6-7 I'd say.
Very very good, comes naturally and intuitively and my tech is great, but still lacking in tournament experience against certain players and matchups.
I'm a 1. Almost certainly. Once a player asked me after our tournament set if I knew about teching.
I'm probably a 4. I know wavedashing and techniques but I really don't have experience fighting real people because I can't find any Melee tournaments around me. If I could find some id go in a heartbeat
I would say I'm 3. I main the spacies (mostly the bird but I use Fox for specifics MU) and I'm getting pretty technical with both of them actually, but I don't often play with really experienced players since almost nobody plays where I am, so my mind games aren't well developped yet :(
7-8. I understand melee as a mechanical whole and how to do it, and can apply it, but cannot always actively adapt like Armada does.
I would have to say about 2.5. I can do most basic tech skill, and if I played more it would be more consistent. However, I haven't played much competitively so I can't really compare my game skill outside of a couple locals.
i would say like...a 3 or a 4, I can wavedash but L-cancling I forget and I can't really figure some combos out. I usually find myself playing very slow. (btw I play Marth and Fox, I'll be making use of this video if anything)
I like to think of myself around a 6. My combo game is getting good enough to zero to death most of the cast, but my DI and neutral both need some more work.
I'm an 11 and gonna dethrone Mango.
2. I just found my old Gamecube and started picking up the game with friends.
I'd say 6. I think I'm between 5-6 but I lean more towards 6. I've beaten ranked players and placed well but I havnt made it out of pools at a major (tho the only one I've gone to is CEO 2015/16 with death pools) and I've made top 16 at locals for quite a while
Great video. I place myself about a 4.