My Mother forbid me from reading this book when I was about 11 years old. I picked up a copy at a used bookstore when I was in college and read it cover to cover, then re-read it. I love the book and love the movie. Proof that forbidden fruit is always the sweetest. Wonder how my life would have been different if my mom had forbidden me from reading a Geometry textbook instead?
I'm a 28 year old black woman, and I honestly discovered this book at my local bookshop a couple years back and bought it because the cover compelled me. Even though it's obviously written through a very white and narrow lens, I found its themes regarding loss of innocence, pill addiction, as well as the sexualization and degradation of women by Hollywood - all so universal. Plus it felt like an intimate sneak peak within a world that, due to racism and time period, I would have never had access to. I clearly see its flaws, but it's honestly one of my favorite books. Feels like Jacqueline is catching me up on gossip about a friend of a friend or something lol. Fantastic video!
Hi Kay I'm a 48 year old man and I first read this book when I was 24. I have reread it so many times I've lost count and it's one of my favorite books. As trashy as it may be on the surface I have always maintained it is loaded with great life lessons.
When I was a kid, in the 70s, my grandfather worked in a big apartment building. The wealthy tenants often gave him their cast-offs to take home. We (my cousins and I) got good stuff that way: bikes, pogo sticks, records, and LOTS of books. Grandpa would come home with boxes of books. One time, he got an entire set of encyclopedias! When I was about 10 or 11, my grandpa came home with a box of books he'd been given, and handed me a book saying, "You should take this one. It's something about dolls, so it must b for little girls." Yes, he'd handed a 10 year old a copy of Valley of the Dolls. (I should maybe mention English was not my grandfather's first language, and he often took English phrases and expressions literally.) He handed it to me, I read it, and I FELL IN LOVE. It was like the soap operas I watched with my grandmother, only so much MORE. I was thrilled when NYC's 4:30 movie aired the movie. When I tell people about this they gasp and can't believe I read such a book when I was so young. I REGRET NOTHING.
I loved the Channel 7 4 : 30 Movie . Most of us saw "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" and "Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte" for the first time. Also : ELVIS week, Godzilla week and Vincent Price week! Great comment!
I would really love to see Broey do a analysis of Death Becomes Her. it's a great campy comedy that looks at feminine toxicity and reflects the obsessions of youth and beauty that women within the elite feel. There's rarely any essays or talks about it, and would really love to see Broey comment on it. It just feels like a film Broey would love.
It doesn't seem like obsession with youth and beauty is localized to a class, although youth and beauty do make women more privileged and potentially upwardly mobile class-wise, compared to old, and/or ugly women.
I bought this book at a book store in London when I was 14 specifically because the cover was so beautiful. My mom made fun of me and said it was a terrible book but I loved it so much. Reading it at 14 was so formative for me! I would love to see a remake with Sydney Sweeney as Jennifer.
This was fascinating. I'm Romanian and we didn't really have a valium epidemic when this book / movie came out (we were under the communist regime at the time) and I don't think there are many people who even know about this book or this film - don't remember it ever being on Romanian TV. And yet, your essay was fascinating to watch, even if I don't have any emotional connection to it. It's nice to finally understand some pop culture references though!
This isn't a movie I've seen, but given how much its referenced on Drag Race, it makes sense that it's so quintessentially campy, melodramatic, exploitative, and bizarre. Wonderful video, I'll be watching both Valleys tonight
Ive watched for the same reason, because i wondered why it was so talked about. and i loved it. I also have the novel and I loved it too. Its bad, but I love it.
I have always felt I was born in the wrong era and the 60's fascinated me. The one scene that I liked most of all in this, yes, dreadfully kitschy film, is the supper club scene where all of the men and women were out on the town dressed in their finest, and Tony Polar was not-so-subtly hitting on Jennifer North. As a Black woman, I know full well in 1967, more times than not, Black people wouldn't have been welcome in that type of club with open arms, even in New York City. Racism was still running rampant, and the discomfort of attempting to fit in would have been palpable. This film gave Black people a sneak peek into a world where we didn't inhabit as much as we do now. And it had a strong underlying message of how women were and still are undervalued, hypersexualized, interchangeable and disrespected in Hollywood. And in the 60's, what those women had to endure to rise to the top is unimaginable, even by today's standards. Today we do have some checks and balances on inappropriate behavior and misogyny, then, there was no accountability. I mean none, because I have older women friends who worked in modeling and in Hollywood during this era, and there was nowhere they could turn, so they had to either suck it up, be destroyed by it or quit. Those were their only choices. Yes there was also drug addiction, a suicide and a loss of innocence of sorts, but overall, the world, both professionally and personally was seen from a very circumscribed White purview. However, Valley of the Dolls is still a lot of mid century fun, though it also reminds many of us that Sharon Tate didn't have much longer to live, and that's the saddest part of this film.
@@cryaboutit7499 i think racism is less normalised now than what it was in the 60s especially because we have safe spaces and more diversity, although racism is still an issue but that's my opinion.
i want them to remake this book into a modern mini series still set in the same time period since the movie didn’t cover all the depth with the characters especially the ending and what happened between neely and anne (you’d have to read to find out) and the 60s fashion will be cool to see again.
I watched Beyond the Valley of the Dolls in cinema. People were screaming, laughing, it was amazing. Also before the screening there was a really detailed introduction. Loved every second of it.
9:01 Gauche: lacking ease or grace; unsophisticated and socially awkward 19:40 Maladroit: ineffective or bungling; clumsy 30:39 Mise en scène: the arrangement of scenery and stage properties in a play 33:50 Prescient: having or showing knowledge of events before they take place
Rewatching it again for the hilarious dialogue is fun and that hilarious wig sequence. (The funny part is the full head of styled white hair underneath the wig looking better than the wig itself)
Supposedly the plan was for her to wear a bald cap or something to look like Helen was losing her hair, but Susan Hayward refused, so she just bleached her hair grey.
I remember back when my Dad was promoted into management at his company, the senior managers' wives - homemakers older than my parents - came and visited my mother. I did some eavesdropping, and every single one of those ladies had been taking Valium for years.
Loved the video! A little addition: Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems to me, that the video suggests Valium (Diazepam) is a Barbiturate. It's a Benzodiazepin and still available, while Barbiturates are withdrawn from the market for their danger of potential deadly overdoses. The two have a quite different mode of action (sedating vs. purely sleep inducing).
Thanks for pointing this out. I was going to do the same, but you beat me to it. Actually, barbiturates are still around, but they are prescribed very cautiously and infrequently. For example, phenobarbital is sometimes prescribed against seizures when nothing else is effective. In the US and elsewhere, benzodiazepines remain one of the most commonly prescribed family of controlled substances. Xanax remains ubiquitous.
I actually think, if it was given to a talented writer, someone could make a really excellent adaptation of this book. Even though the source material is shaky (lol), there are some really relevant themes and it would be nice to see these characters further developed and rounded out.
I don't know about something answering "Why,"---Women in show business were brutally exploited by the system because of greed and misogyny and the way the system was structured---but Be Kind Rewind has a powerful video detailing some of the way HOW she was exploited.
really relate to the concept of audience engagement with camp as both relation + critique! z-man from beyond is perhaps the best + most personally relatable representation of a gay trans man that i’ve seen on screen…despite Everything about the last couple minutes of the movie 😭 i had no idea how much the manson murders + the previous film’s production and content contributed to the violent nature + the weird epilogue - recontextualizes all that so much! definitely going to check out the og now
I've had a soft spot for Valley (the book) since reading it in the summer at 12. I saw the film later and was saddened because I had appreciated the characters, etc. Then later I came to love it and especially as Patty Duke just kept at that roll (I still think her performance, while over the top, was a great one) and of course, seeing Tate (who I only knew as a murder victim and Polanski's victim) made it more surreal and even tragic. There's a lot there viewed though the lens of the past 50+ years. Thank you for this, excellent video!
I enjoyed this movie in all its campy glory. But my favorite fun fact about it is that Russ Meyer went on to direct both the satirical sequel, Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, and the porn parody of his own movie, Beneath the Valley of the Supervixens. That, and the fact that the porn parody was co-written by Meyer's friend and collaborator, famed film critic Roger Ebert.
Oh man, a few months ago a friend of mine offhandedly mentioned watching one of your videos, and I'm so glad they did. I searched up your UA-cam channel afterwards and I've been watching it since. I love your content and analysis. Whenever you put out a new video I get pretty excited!
I honestly think that if put in the right hands all three of Jacqueline Suzanne's novels would make an incredible HBO series or even a Netflix movie project that would take themes from all three novels. Since there aren't as many raised eyebrows when it comes to this sort of material I believe with the right cast and director it could be something amazing that would all but reignite sales of all of Suzanne's books.
Valley of the Dolls devastated me, because of Jennifer’s story. It mirrors my grandmother who I never met, because she was diagnosed with breast cancer and couldn’t bear the idea of getting a mastectomy and losing her “looks” she was a single mom desperate to find a man who could provide for her and her kids. She ended up passing away at 38.
hey broey, i loved this video. I was never a huge fan of valley of the dolls but loved the parody of it. this video really made me want to watch it again. since you're such a film connoisseur, i always wondered what you thought of the french new wave (or if you were even familiar with it) and the lasting impacts it had on film.
can u please do a video on cult femcel movies and books like virgin suicides, girl, interrupted, the bell jar, the craft etc and why they're gaining popularity amongst niche audiences of girls on Pinterest etc
I enjoyed BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (a film which film critic Richard Corliss listed as one of the Top Ten Best Films from 1968 to '78) more than VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (which Leonard Maltin has given a BOMB rating: "Scattered unintentional laughs do not compensate for terribly written, acted, and directed adaptation"), but I agree that the first film is certainly not without value, however dubious its merits may be. And for all its faults, it certainly does get across what you said about Hollywood at the beginning: "it's a place that makes a game out of its own alien morals, and the only way to win is to play along." If anything, it also hearkens back to what Michael Korda wrote back in 1995 in his NEW YORKER article "Wasn't She Great?", first quoting Susann: "I write for women who read me in the goddamn subways on the way home from work. I know who they are, because that's who I used to be. They want to press their noses against the windows of other people's houses and get a look at the parties they'll never be invited to, the dresses they'll never get to wear, the lives they'll never live, the guys they'll never fuck... But here's the catch. All the people they envy in my books, the ones who are glamorous, or beautiful, or rich, or talented - they have to suffer, see, because that way the people who read me can get off the subway and go home feeling better about their own crappy lives and luckier than the people they've been reading about." Given how very little or nothing in Hollywood involving its big names and the lives they live off screen has changed, both the novel and film of VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (regardless of deviations in adaptation of book to screen) are just as relevant now as over half a century ago. I won't be surprised if things remain that way nearly half a century down the road.
The fact that Judy’s replacement wouldn’t come on until she was paid is a true “pro” move tbh. She probably knew Judy had been screwed over and fired without getting paid before and wanted to make sure she was at least compensated for the embarrassment they put her through.
I LOVE the late Ms Judy but her ESSENCE was too theatrical for a movie like this where as this film is for people like me who LOVES to feel sexy, have sexuality on his mind, good looking people and a chill LA like atmosphere.
such a great essay about 2 of my favorite movies!! well done! i had been looking for an essay about either of these for so long and you really delivered
i watched it once in grade eight (thanks marina). i dont remember much of the plot and cant say the acting was any good but the one thing i can compliment it on and has stuck with me was the hair and makeup! oh. my. god! stunning!
I found this book very sad. So many years ago, my best friend gave me the book to read and obediently, I read it. But I still remember it was a book of tragedy.
As a kid, my mom was in the book-of-the-month club. One of the books was Valley of the Dolls . OK, so this is what I THOUGHT it was about (my sheer 9 year old imagination) . I imagined it was a horror story about dolls that come to life and kill people . In the climax of the book - there is a big showdown - at night - in a large valley - with a hundred or more of the killer dolls and the heroes of the book (naturally , a cop OR scientest and his girlfriend ). The valley was darkly lit , and all the dolls' eyes glowed. So; how close was i ? LOL.
Just generally, this channel is so SMART. The content is always well researched, well presented, and it always feels like it means something to Maia (like it should). And specifically this made me want to watch this movie (which I will later today). Thank you for taking the time to do good work.
When I saw this movie I loved it because it showed what show business, Hollywood was like. If you are not good enough, perfect enough then ur, not the best. You look to drugs as a way to help you. I really loved Sharon's character and I feel like it's such an important message to girls . When i was younger I wanted to be a model but I realized what it was actually like.
Great video, so glad and surprised that you also covered Beyond Valley of the Dolls. But the part where you talked about her getting on drugs and getting well all in the same scene, I saw her as hitting bottom. She was about to kill herself with pills and booze, and when she walked out to the beach, and fell in the surf, that was her moment of clarity, when she was going to hang on and live. And then, taking that with the stick swinging scene at the end, that could be her being more aggressive about her path in life and sobriety.
i'm glad you mentioned Judy Garland because i just watched a video about that poor girl and i really struggled not to cry with what i learned. i found the parallels in the book with the life of Judy Garland and many others to be eerie.
is Valley of The Dolls considered bad in the wider population, or only in film/book buff circles? I remember hearing it referenced as a subversive masterpiece when I was in high school, but never got around to reading/watching. if so that kind of mirrors her quote in the beginning of the video. Good for you, Jackie! Also, this confirms my hypothesis that making any movie about drugs and addiction is a fast path to success. You could make the absolute worst schlock imaginable, but edgy teenagers who just started digging into their grandma's medicine cabinet will eat that shit up.
Lesson learned by Mark Robson and Faye Dunaway - take a book that you think is salacious and try to make it into a respectable movie, you get an automatic camp classic.
This is perfect! I rewatched a few weeks ago and couldn’t believe how much I loved it!!! I scanned UA-cam, Reddit and google.. Typing “Valley of the Dolls is actually great..” Thank you for this. I eat all your content up! Many blessings.
I love "Valley Of The Dolls"! It's part of what I call the "stupid-fun" movie genre, right up there with "Reefer Madness" and "Staying Alive." But there's a much trashier Hollywood-Sodom film called "The Legend Of Lyla Clare." Released in 1968, it makes "Valley Of The Dolls" look like "Sunset Boulevard". There's even a bizzaro dog food commercial at the end which looks like it was directed by Andy Warhol.
At 9:14 you can see the bestseller list at the time. Number 3 was Tai-Pan by James Clavell. That's a good book. He also wrote Shogun, and was heavily involved in the Shogun TV miniseries (hence why it is pretty darn accurate to the book).
Terrific analysis. The camp section should be required viewing at film school. At 10:13 - yah, I'd argue this was also what Levin's Stepford Wives was about. I can remember when my mother was prescribed dilantin (an anti-seizure med) for migraines in the 70s, turning her into 'robot mom'. O_o
I love the novel more than the movie, but I think what I appreciate most is, for the time period, it was an interesting female-focused narrative inside of a populist structure.
I enjoyed your analysis and the many corroborating sources supporting your position. I am wondering why you pronounce the first name of character "Lyon Burke" as "Leon" (LEE-on) when throughout the film it is always pronounced "Lion" (LY-un). Also, regarding the coffee heiress Abigail Folger who was murdered with Sharon Tate and others, you pronounce her last name with a hard "g" (FOL-ger) when it is correctly pronounced with a soft "g" (FOL-jer). Minor matters, however. Thanks for all the work you put into this interesting and often amusing upload.
Jacqueline Susann wrote both books on Valley of the dolls and The Love Machine which Valley indeed was a really great movie and to have all three actresses Duke and Tate plus Perkins made the movie more great to watch. I know the story line was excellent because it goes to show you that these women face things head on plus! the little pills was something else to let you know that once you took them you cannot be set free. Yes! indeed there was a message for watching this movie that no matter what you make right outta of yourself there is a pill along the way to have a talk with you. I get the idea that some people do take medication for themselves But! when you become a addict that’s a different story even still all three of these women lead there very own path. I give this movie a Thumbs Up
Your facts are wrong. Jackie Susanne was ALREADY a best selling author when Valley of the Dolls was published. You obviously got all your information from "Isn't She Great" which omitted that detail. She wrote "Every Night, Josephine!" which was beloved and sold over a million copies.
But without Beyond the Valley of the Dolls we wouldn’t have one of the best movie quotes of all time: “You will drink the black sperm of my vengeance!” *chef’s kiss*
“Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls” was a movie I’d never heard of before, and one day I was house sitting for my aunt and I found the DVD (a 2 disc special edition) in her collection and was intrigued by the psychedelic cover, being the 60’s fan that I am. I innocently popped the disc in thinking it would be a fun way to kill a few hours on a rainy day. It was absolutely insane! I couldn’t believe my eyes and ears. And then to find out that movie critic, Roger Ebert, wrote the script!!! And he’s got the nerve to trash other people’s films? The dialogue in that movie was as really bad, and at the same time, it was absolutely brilliant. It’s filled with one-liners and stupid comments. My favorite was when the oversexed female movie star says to a guy she wants: “I’d sure like to strap you on sometime!” and a few minutes later an elderly woman at the same wild party repeats that line to an elderly man she likes.
My 👩🏽🦱 sister and 👩🏽 I would watch the 1960’s version whenever it showed up on late night TV as teenagers. The wig snatching scene is hands down our favorite part. I think I’ll add the book to my reading list to catch the juicy bits that the movie left out. 😀 The book on Audible is performed by Lavern Cox😍 definitely a must listen on my list.
I've never watched VOTD. Maybe I should. I do remember my mother reading it.. (I was born in) and her discussing it with her bffs.. My mother drank very little and drugs not at all, but she did talk about and remember that in the 60s and 70s they had very good diet pills, I'm guessing almost straight methamphetamine. She once stated when taking those you could clean your house top to bottom quickly... She said once you probably could of painted a house when on them. This book, movie and other similar media was a sign of the times.. Equality for women.etc....
I love Beyond the Valley of the Dolls so much, it's the only movie I ever felt deserved my payment of the premium price for the Criterion Collection edition. I understand your points for liking the original tho. Loved the video!
I read this as a kid and thought it was great, and devoured her other books! Susann also wrote a fun book about her dog called "Every Night, Josephine!". The movies didn't live up to my expectations - I didn't have the lens of "camp" back then. However, even though the movies still aren't for me, there's still a few aspects that I can get into: Lisa Hartman in the miniseries captured Neely's wide-eyed enthusiasm, and Sharon Tate gives a moving performance even if one is unfamiliar with the tragedy of her unfair death.
Award-winning author and screenwriter Harlan Ellison was also commissioned to adapt Susann’s novel, as recounted by Ellison himself at the time in his column for the L.A. Free Press. Though he detested the novel (and didn’t much care for Jacqueline Susann personally), Ellison claimed to have heard through a mutual acquaintance that Susann had spoken highly of his script, stating that if the producers had used it the film version wouldn’t have been such a fiasco, even if it wound up making money.
they had everything they could want back then and love to say people these days just want a hand out. crazy to compare then to now. it’s like older generations cared how their kids’ futures ended up and my parents’ generation didn’t care, taking things for themselves not worried about what economic repercussions it would bring their descendants
Valley of the Dolls was so good it gave me uncontrollable diarrhea for three days! And the music was out of this world! It's so intense I pass out every time I watch it.
My Mother forbid me from reading this book when I was about 11 years old. I picked up a copy at a used bookstore when I was in college and read it cover to cover, then re-read it. I love the book and love the movie. Proof that forbidden fruit is always the sweetest. Wonder how my life would have been different if my mom had forbidden me from reading a Geometry textbook instead?
LOL.
I don’t feel the media we consume in our youth makes us gay, but it sure does make us fabulous. 🎉
I'm a 28 year old black woman, and I honestly discovered this book at my local bookshop a couple years back and bought it because the cover compelled me. Even though it's obviously written through a very white and narrow lens, I found its themes regarding loss of innocence, pill addiction, as well as the sexualization and degradation of women by Hollywood - all so universal. Plus it felt like an intimate sneak peak within a world that, due to racism and time period, I would have never had access to. I clearly see its flaws, but it's honestly one of my favorite books. Feels like Jacqueline is catching me up on gossip about a friend of a friend or something lol. Fantastic video!
I’m
This is going on my summer reading list. Thanks for the awesome review!
Hi Kay I'm a 48 year old man and I first read this book when I was 24. I have reread it so many times I've lost count and it's one of my favorite books. As trashy as it may be on the surface I have always maintained it is loaded with great life lessons.
Black girl in the UK here and Jacqueline Susann is one of my favourite authors!
Lol!! Great take
When I was a kid, in the 70s, my grandfather worked in a big apartment building. The wealthy tenants often gave him their cast-offs to take home. We (my cousins and I) got good stuff that way: bikes, pogo sticks, records, and LOTS of books. Grandpa would come home with boxes of books. One time, he got an entire set of encyclopedias! When I was about 10 or 11, my grandpa came home with a box of books he'd been given, and handed me a book saying, "You should take this one. It's something about dolls, so it must b for little girls." Yes, he'd handed a 10 year old a copy of Valley of the Dolls. (I should maybe mention English was not my grandfather's first language, and he often took English phrases and expressions literally.) He handed it to me, I read it, and I FELL IN LOVE. It was like the soap operas I watched with my grandmother, only so much MORE. I was thrilled when NYC's 4:30 movie aired the movie. When I tell people about this they gasp and can't believe I read such a book when I was so young. I REGRET NOTHING.
Maybe we protect kids too much sometimes; I love the idea of you reading this book that should've been "forbidden" and you loving it so much :)
I enjoyed this comment!
I loved the Channel 7 4 : 30 Movie . Most of us saw "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" and "Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte" for the first time. Also : ELVIS week, Godzilla week and Vincent Price week! Great comment!
I would really love to see Broey do a analysis of Death Becomes Her. it's a great campy comedy that looks at feminine toxicity and reflects the obsessions of youth and beauty that women within the elite feel. There's rarely any essays or talks about it, and would really love to see Broey comment on it. It just feels like a film Broey would love.
It doesn't seem like obsession with youth and beauty is localized to a class, although youth and beauty do make women more privileged and potentially upwardly mobile class-wise, compared to old, and/or ugly women.
One of my favorite movies of all time is Death Becomes Her.. The high drag fashion looks and the campiness of the plot is just GOLD to me! 😍
Yes yes yes what a campy gem!
I bought this book at a book store in London when I was 14 specifically because the cover was so beautiful. My mom made fun of me and said it was a terrible book but I loved it so much. Reading it at 14 was so formative for me!
I would love to see a remake with Sydney Sweeney as Jennifer.
i can picture sydney sweeney in this as well now that you've mentioned it, she'd thrive in a remake
This and Harold Robbins 79 Park avenue
And sofia coppola as a director
This was fascinating. I'm Romanian and we didn't really have a valium epidemic when this book / movie came out (we were under the communist regime at the time) and I don't think there are many people who even know about this book or this film - don't remember it ever being on Romanian TV. And yet, your essay was fascinating to watch, even if I don't have any emotional connection to it. It's nice to finally understand some pop culture references though!
This isn't a movie I've seen, but given how much its referenced on Drag Race, it makes sense that it's so quintessentially campy, melodramatic, exploitative, and bizarre. Wonderful video, I'll be watching both Valleys tonight
Ive watched for the same reason, because i wondered why it was so talked about. and i loved it. I also have the novel and I loved it too. Its bad, but I love it.
Sparkle, Neely, Sparkle!
I have always felt I was born in the wrong era and the 60's fascinated me. The one scene that I liked most of all in this, yes, dreadfully kitschy film, is the supper club scene where all of the men and women were out on the town dressed in their finest, and Tony Polar was not-so-subtly hitting on Jennifer North. As a Black woman, I know full well in 1967, more times than not, Black people wouldn't have been welcome in that type of club with open arms, even in New York City. Racism was still running rampant, and the discomfort of attempting to fit in would have been palpable. This film gave Black people a sneak peek into a world where we didn't inhabit as much as we do now. And it had a strong underlying message of how women were and still are undervalued, hypersexualized, interchangeable and disrespected in Hollywood. And in the 60's, what those women had to endure to rise to the top is unimaginable, even by today's standards. Today we do have some checks and balances on inappropriate behavior and misogyny, then, there was no accountability. I mean none, because I have older women friends who worked in modeling and in Hollywood during this era, and there was nowhere they could turn, so they had to either suck it up, be destroyed by it or quit. Those were their only choices. Yes there was also drug addiction, a suicide and a loss of innocence of sorts, but overall, the world, both professionally and personally was seen from a very circumscribed White purview. However, Valley of the Dolls is still a lot of mid century fun, though it also reminds many of us that Sharon Tate didn't have much longer to live, and that's the saddest part of this film.
Racism is still rampant now. My moms friend who is a black woman and who grew up in the 60s, said its more racist now than back then.
@@cryaboutit7499 i think racism is less normalised now than what it was in the 60s especially because we have safe spaces and more diversity, although racism is still an issue but that's my opinion.
i want them to remake this book into a modern mini series still set in the same time period since the movie didn’t cover all the depth with the characters especially the ending and what happened between neely and anne (you’d have to read to find out) and the 60s fashion will be cool to see again.
I watched Beyond the Valley of the Dolls in cinema. People were screaming, laughing, it was amazing. Also before the screening there was a really detailed introduction. Loved every second of it.
“In cinema”?😂
@@pattimaeda6097At a movie theater.
9:01 Gauche: lacking ease or grace; unsophisticated and socially awkward
19:40 Maladroit: ineffective or bungling; clumsy
30:39 Mise en scène: the arrangement of scenery and stage properties in a play
33:50 Prescient: having or showing knowledge of events before they take place
Thank you for this 💖
@@Akoa4you you got it!
You assume viewers don’t know those words?🙄
@@pattimaeda6097Correct!
Rewatching it again for the hilarious dialogue is fun and that hilarious wig sequence. (The funny part is the full head of styled white hair underneath the wig looking better than the wig itself)
I always thought she looked better with the white wig anyway 😂 she killed that role but man I would have loved to see Judy
Supposedly the plan was for her to wear a bald cap or something to look like Helen was losing her hair, but Susan Hayward refused, so she just bleached her hair grey.
I only see hilarity in intentional comedy not badly made films.
I remember back when my Dad was promoted into management at his company, the senior managers' wives - homemakers older than my parents - came and visited my mother. I did some eavesdropping, and every single one of those ladies had been taking Valium for years.
Loved the video! A little addition: Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems to me, that the video suggests Valium (Diazepam) is a Barbiturate. It's a Benzodiazepin and still available, while Barbiturates are withdrawn from the market for their danger of potential deadly overdoses. The two have a quite different mode of action (sedating vs. purely sleep inducing).
Thanks for pointing this out. I was going to do the same, but you beat me to it. Actually, barbiturates are still around, but they are prescribed very cautiously and infrequently. For example, phenobarbital is sometimes prescribed against seizures when nothing else is effective. In the US and elsewhere, benzodiazepines remain one of the most commonly prescribed family of controlled substances. Xanax remains ubiquitous.
i absolutely LOVED valley of the dolls as a teenager. i didn’t even realize people didn’t like it or thought that it was bad until a few years later
Cult classic (both book & film)! Also *RIP, Sharon Tate* ♡
I actually think, if it was given to a talented writer, someone could make a really excellent adaptation of this book. Even though the source material is shaky (lol), there are some really relevant themes and it would be nice to see these characters further developed and rounded out.
Also, fun bit of trivia, Beyond the valley of the dolls was Pam Grier's film debut.
I really wish we had an in-depth explanation as to why Judy Garland was often treated so poorly throughout her career.
I don't know about something answering "Why,"---Women in show business were brutally exploited by the system because of greed and misogyny and the way the system was structured---but Be Kind Rewind has a powerful video detailing some of the way HOW she was exploited.
really relate to the concept of audience engagement with camp as both relation + critique! z-man from beyond is perhaps the best + most personally relatable representation of a gay trans man that i’ve seen on screen…despite Everything about the last couple minutes of the movie 😭
i had no idea how much the manson murders + the previous film’s production and content contributed to the violent nature + the weird epilogue - recontextualizes all that so much! definitely going to check out the og now
loved recognizing BE KIND REWIND's voice as one of the critics
I've had a soft spot for Valley (the book) since reading it in the summer at 12. I saw the film later and was saddened because I had appreciated the characters, etc. Then later I came to love it and especially as Patty Duke just kept at that roll (I still think her performance, while over the top, was a great one) and of course, seeing Tate (who I only knew as a murder victim and Polanski's victim) made it more surreal and even tragic. There's a lot there viewed though the lens of the past 50+ years. Thank you for this, excellent video!
I enjoyed this movie in all its campy glory. But my favorite fun fact about it is that Russ Meyer went on to direct both the satirical sequel, Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, and the porn parody of his own movie, Beneath the Valley of the Supervixens.
That, and the fact that the porn parody was co-written by Meyer's friend and collaborator, famed film critic Roger Ebert.
Oh man, a few months ago a friend of mine offhandedly mentioned watching one of your videos, and I'm so glad they did. I searched up your UA-cam channel afterwards and I've been watching it since. I love your content and analysis. Whenever you put out a new video I get pretty excited!
I honestly think that if put in the right hands all three of Jacqueline Suzanne's novels would make an incredible HBO series or even a Netflix movie project that would take themes from all three novels. Since there aren't as many raised eyebrows when it comes to this sort of material I believe with the right cast and director it could be something amazing that would all but reignite sales of all of Suzanne's books.
Valley of the Dolls devastated me, because of Jennifer’s story. It mirrors my grandmother who I never met, because she was diagnosed with breast cancer and couldn’t bear the idea of getting a mastectomy and losing her “looks” she was a single mom desperate to find a man who could provide for her and her kids. She ended up passing away at 38.
hey broey, i loved this video. I was never a huge fan of valley of the dolls but loved the parody of it. this video really made me want to watch it again. since you're such a film connoisseur, i always wondered what you thought of the french new wave (or if you were even familiar with it) and the lasting impacts it had on film.
can u please do a video on cult femcel movies and books like virgin suicides, girl, interrupted, the bell jar, the craft etc and why they're gaining popularity amongst niche audiences of girls on Pinterest etc
Yep, I’ve noticed a huge resurgence on my Twitter feed about virgin suicides and girl interrupted especially.
The bell jar has a movie?? That’s one of my favorites
@@DylanRomanov i was talking about the book but there is a movie made in 1979
I enjoyed BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (a film which film critic Richard Corliss listed as one of the Top Ten Best Films from 1968 to '78) more than VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (which Leonard Maltin has given a BOMB rating: "Scattered unintentional laughs do not compensate for terribly written, acted, and directed adaptation"), but I agree that the first film is certainly not without value, however dubious its merits may be. And for all its faults, it certainly does get across what you said about Hollywood at the beginning: "it's a place that makes a game out of its own alien morals, and the only way to win is to play along."
If anything, it also hearkens back to what Michael Korda wrote back in 1995 in his NEW YORKER article "Wasn't She Great?", first quoting Susann: "I write for women who read me in the goddamn subways on the way home from work. I know who they are, because that's who I used to be. They want to press their noses against the windows of other people's houses and get a look at the parties they'll never be invited to, the dresses they'll never get to wear, the lives they'll never live, the guys they'll never fuck... But here's the catch. All the people they envy in my books, the ones who are glamorous, or beautiful, or rich, or talented - they have to suffer, see, because that way the people who read me can get off the subway and go home feeling better about their own crappy lives and luckier than the people they've been reading about." Given how very little or nothing in Hollywood involving its big names and the lives they live off screen has changed, both the novel and film of VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (regardless of deviations in adaptation of book to screen) are just as relevant now as over half a century ago. I won't be surprised if things remain that way nearly half a century down the road.
"Beyond..." is a superior movie in every way. The original "Valley" seems too tame now.
The fact that Judy’s replacement wouldn’t come on until she was paid is a true “pro” move tbh. She probably knew Judy had been screwed over and fired without getting paid before and wanted to make sure she was at least compensated for the embarrassment they put her through.
Just a shame that Judy Garland didn't end up appearing in the film
I think it would've been too trashy for her, even if one of the characters was inspired by her
It's a Blessing that Judy Garland DID NOT appear in this film.
I LOVE the late Ms Judy but her ESSENCE was too theatrical for a movie like this where as this film is for people like me who LOVES to feel sexy, have sexuality on his mind, good looking people and a chill LA like atmosphere.
such a great essay about 2 of my favorite movies!! well done! i had been looking for an essay about either of these for so long and you really delivered
i watched it once in grade eight (thanks marina). i dont remember much of the plot and cant say the acting was any good but the one thing i can compliment it on and has stuck with me was the hair and makeup! oh. my. god! stunning!
I found this book very sad. So many years ago, my best friend gave me the book to read and obediently, I read it. But I still remember it was a book of tragedy.
incredible as always, makes my day to see your post notifications. love the book and loved this video
As a kid, my mom was in the book-of-the-month club. One of the books was Valley of the Dolls . OK, so this is what I THOUGHT it was about (my sheer 9 year old imagination) . I imagined it was a horror story about dolls that come to life and kill people . In the climax of the book - there is a big showdown - at night - in a large valley - with a hundred or more of the killer dolls and the heroes of the book (naturally , a cop OR scientest and his girlfriend ). The valley was darkly lit , and all the dolls' eyes glowed. So; how close was i ? LOL.
Just generally, this channel is so SMART. The content is always well researched, well presented, and it always feels like it means something to Maia (like it should). And specifically this made me want to watch this movie (which I will later today).
Thank you for taking the time to do good work.
My friend and I quote this movie to each other all the time, it's something special if not the most traditionally "good" film.
Excellent work, as always. That CONCLUSION, though... you've outdone yourself, sis 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾💖🙌🏾🧚🏾♀️😘
When I saw this movie I loved it because it showed what show business, Hollywood was like. If you are not good enough, perfect enough then ur, not the best. You look to drugs as a way to help you. I really loved Sharon's character and I feel like it's such an important message to girls . When i was younger I wanted to be a model but I realized what it was actually like.
wow i can't believe you actually did a video of this
Great video, so glad and surprised that you also covered Beyond Valley of the Dolls. But the part where you talked about her getting on drugs and getting well all in the same scene, I saw her as hitting bottom. She was about to kill herself with pills and booze, and when she walked out to the beach, and fell in the surf, that was her moment of clarity, when she was going to hang on and live. And then, taking that with the stick swinging scene at the end, that could be her being more aggressive about her path in life and sobriety.
Witty, funny and thought provoking. I love the rhythm of these essays. Thanks for sharing!
This is excellent. More content like it please. Also thank you for all the Judy content within this video essay
I came to this video after watching the first part of Be Kind Rewind's video on Valley of the Dolls. I'm now a subscriber. Excellent work.
Just realized that's her voice at 20:01 LOL
Great content. Very thoughtful, as always ❤
I’d watch a short, low budget drama by you. I’m hoping to write a play for local theatres one day also 👍
i'm glad you mentioned Judy Garland because i just watched a video about that poor girl and i really struggled not to cry with what i learned. i found the parallels in the book with the life of Judy Garland and many others to be eerie.
another great video. smashed it again. thanks for this
It's really not an awful movie at all. In it's time, it was another woman's melodrama. In hindsight, it's a wonderful view of mid-60s pop culture.
seriously?? it's dreadful.
i already love this channel...but im so obsessed by this!
Yassssssssssssss s/o to you and your team for this great breakdown 💖
Ive never seen the movie or read the book but guess I now have to do both 😂
is Valley of The Dolls considered bad in the wider population, or only in film/book buff circles? I remember hearing it referenced as a subversive masterpiece when I was in high school, but never got around to reading/watching. if so that kind of mirrors her quote in the beginning of the video. Good for you, Jackie!
Also, this confirms my hypothesis that making any movie about drugs and addiction is a fast path to success. You could make the absolute worst schlock imaginable, but edgy teenagers who just started digging into their grandma's medicine cabinet will eat that shit up.
I was always confused about Ann's pill addiction.. I always missed her blink and miss Ann's addiction and recovery sceene..😂
Yes a Broey Deshanel video. Barely any UA-cam channels I don’t watch out of boredom anymore
Classic film
Cult classic
Sharon Tate
Patty Duke!
Absolutely always adored this film
Lesson learned by Mark Robson and Faye Dunaway - take a book that you think is salacious and try to make it into a respectable movie, you get an automatic camp classic.
This is perfect! I rewatched a few weeks ago and couldn’t believe how much I loved it!!!
I scanned UA-cam, Reddit and google..
Typing “Valley of the Dolls is actually great..”
Thank you for this. I eat all your content up! Many blessings.
I love "Valley Of The Dolls"! It's part of what I call the "stupid-fun" movie genre, right up there with "Reefer Madness" and "Staying Alive."
But there's a much trashier Hollywood-Sodom film called "The Legend Of Lyla Clare." Released in 1968, it makes "Valley Of The Dolls" look like "Sunset Boulevard". There's even a bizzaro dog food commercial at the end which looks like it was directed by Andy Warhol.
I really got into these movies under lockdown, thanks so much for this!!
Fantastic video. One thing though, it’s supposed to be Lyon Burke like Lion, not Leon.
I’ve been binging your video essays over the past 48 hours and I was THRILLED to see you have one on Valley. I love this movie.
i read both books after each other (completely by accident they had both been on my list a while) and you put into words everything I was thinking!
Haha this is like the third video essay I’m watching today that “we’re in hell” is reading a quote in 🤣🤣🤣 love it! Chefs kiss 💋✌🏻
At 9:14 you can see the bestseller list at the time. Number 3 was Tai-Pan by James Clavell. That's a good book. He also wrote Shogun, and was heavily involved in the Shogun TV miniseries (hence why it is pretty darn accurate to the book).
Best video on Valley... that I have ever seen! I have LOVED that book and movie for so long! Awesome Job!
Terrific analysis. The camp section should be required viewing at film school. At 10:13 - yah, I'd argue this was also what Levin's Stepford Wives was about. I can remember when my mother was prescribed dilantin (an anti-seizure med) for migraines in the 70s, turning her into 'robot mom'. O_o
I love the novel more than the movie, but I think what I appreciate most is, for the time period, it was an interesting female-focused narrative inside of a populist structure.
I enjoyed your analysis and the many corroborating sources supporting your position. I am wondering why you pronounce the first name of character "Lyon Burke" as "Leon" (LEE-on) when throughout the film it is always pronounced "Lion" (LY-un). Also, regarding the coffee heiress Abigail Folger who was murdered with Sharon Tate and others, you pronounce her last name with a hard "g" (FOL-ger) when it is correctly pronounced with a soft "g" (FOL-jer). Minor matters, however. Thanks for all the work you put into this interesting and often amusing upload.
Loved the video! I watched Valley of the Dolls for the first time this week, and i thought very entertaining.
Jacqueline Susann wrote both books on Valley of the dolls and The Love Machine which Valley indeed was a really great movie and to have all three actresses Duke and Tate plus Perkins made the movie more great to watch. I know the story line was excellent because it goes to show you that these women face things head on plus! the little pills was something else to let you know that once you took them you cannot be set free. Yes! indeed there was a message for watching this movie that no matter what you make right outta of yourself there is a pill along the way to have a talk with you. I get the idea that some people do take medication for themselves But! when you become a addict that’s a different story even still all three of these women lead there very own path. I give this movie a Thumbs Up
Late, but this was fantastic. I loved this break down.
Your facts are wrong. Jackie Susanne was ALREADY a best selling author when Valley of the Dolls was published. You obviously got all your information from "Isn't She Great" which omitted that detail. She wrote "Every Night, Josephine!" which was beloved and sold over a million copies.
Thank you for this. I have always loved the original film and book and am reading Stephen Rebello's book right now.
Thanks for this. I have never seen these films nor read the book, but this is all very interesting.
i was unaware of this particular piece, but i have an evergreen love for camp and all the freedom it intoxicates me with
My friends and I watch this movie every year. Its something of a Christmas tradition at my house.
But without Beyond the Valley of the Dolls we wouldn’t have one of the best movie quotes of all time: “You will drink the black sperm of my vengeance!”
*chef’s kiss*
“Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls” was a movie I’d never heard of before, and one day I was house sitting for my aunt and I found the DVD (a 2 disc special edition) in her collection and was intrigued by the psychedelic cover, being the 60’s fan that I am. I innocently popped the disc in thinking it would be a fun way to kill a few hours on a rainy day. It was absolutely insane! I couldn’t believe my eyes and ears. And then to find out that movie critic, Roger Ebert, wrote the script!!! And he’s got the nerve to trash other people’s films?
The dialogue in that movie was as really bad, and at the same time, it was absolutely brilliant. It’s filled with one-liners and stupid comments. My favorite was when the oversexed female movie star says to a guy she wants: “I’d sure like to strap you on sometime!” and a few minutes later an elderly woman at the same wild party repeats that line to an elderly man she likes.
My 👩🏽🦱 sister and 👩🏽 I would watch the 1960’s version whenever it showed up on late night TV as teenagers. The wig snatching scene is hands down our favorite part. I think I’ll add the book to my reading list to catch the juicy bits that the movie left out.
😀 The book on Audible is performed by Lavern Cox😍 definitely a must listen on my list.
you’re one of the best creators on this website!!!! i get excited whenever you post! carry on what you’re doing
I've never watched VOTD. Maybe I should. I do remember my mother reading it.. (I was born in) and her discussing it with her bffs.. My mother drank very little and drugs not at all, but she did talk about and remember that in the 60s and 70s they had very good diet pills, I'm guessing almost straight methamphetamine. She once stated when taking those you could clean your house top to bottom quickly... She said once you probably could of painted a house when on them.
This book, movie and other similar media was a sign of the times.. Equality for women.etc....
I love Beyond the Valley of the Dolls so much, it's the only movie I ever felt deserved my payment of the premium price for the Criterion Collection edition. I understand your points for liking the original tho. Loved the video!
So strange. It is one of my only regretted purchases
THIS IS MY HAPPENING AND IT'S FREAKING ME OUT
This is a great video, thank you. There was a lot about this movie that I never knew about.
I LOVE UR CHANNEL 💗
Ah whole lotta "Dolls In The Valley" nowadays
I found the book in a thrift store in high school & thought it was the height of literature, lol.
Oh man I haven't seen this movie in years, I need to rewatch it + read the book...
THANK YOU i've been fascinated by this film and been begging silently for someone like you to talk about it. xoxo
In the Valley of the Dolls we sleep, we sleep
I read this as a kid and thought it was great, and devoured her other books! Susann also wrote a fun book about her dog called "Every Night, Josephine!".
The movies didn't live up to my expectations - I didn't have the lens of "camp" back then. However, even though the movies still aren't for me, there's still a few aspects that I can get into: Lisa Hartman in the miniseries captured Neely's wide-eyed enthusiasm, and Sharon Tate gives a moving performance even if one is unfamiliar with the tragedy of her unfair death.
Well done! Thank you
Award-winning author and screenwriter Harlan Ellison was also commissioned to adapt Susann’s novel, as recounted by Ellison himself at the time in his column for the L.A. Free Press. Though he detested the novel (and didn’t much care for Jacqueline Susann personally), Ellison claimed to have heard through a mutual acquaintance that Susann had spoken highly of his script, stating that if the producers had used it the film version wouldn’t have been such a fiasco, even if it wound up making money.
they had everything they could want back then and love to say people these days just want a hand out. crazy to compare then to now. it’s like older generations cared how their kids’ futures ended up and my parents’ generation didn’t care, taking things for themselves not worried about what economic repercussions it would bring their descendants
omg you gave Sam of We're in Hell the beeest quote for him to read haha loved this, another great one
Valley of the Dolls was so good it gave me uncontrollable diarrhea for three days! And the music was out of this world! It's so intense I pass out every time I watch it.
This video rules! I love the thoughtful, nuanced subjectivity you bring to these visual essays. Your work always brings me back for multiple views.
Never seen it. Should I?
For a good attempt at camp
Check out isn't she great! A biopic on Jacqueline Susann starring Bette Midler, Stockard channing, and Nathan lane
21:33 Somebody can pinpoint the location of this shot please? (LA/Malibu I suspect). TIA.