Micro Swiss Direct Drive for the Ender 5 Plus
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- In this video, I break down all of the details of the Micro Swiss direct drive extruder kit for the Ender 5 and Ender 5 Plus. This covers features, test prints, installation and maybe a rant about tuning your printer.
#MicroSwissDirectDrive #Ender5 #Ender5Plus
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:35 - Direct Drive Overview
02:29 - Micro Swiss Direct Drive
04:11 - Unboxing
08:01 - Weight
10:58 - Direct Drive Calibration
11:54 - Test Prints
17:29 - Flexible Filament Test Prints
25:44 - A bit of a rant: Tuning Your Printer
28:50 - Patreon Feedback About Direct Drive
29:48 - Conclusion
35:55 - Installation Guide
Micro Swiss Direct Drive Extruder for Creality Ender 5: store.micro-swiss.com/product...
The kit can be purchased with the all-metal hotend. Here are links to purchase it separately.
Micro Swiss All-Metal Hotend: store.micro-swiss.com/collect...
Micro Swiss All-Metal Hotend (Amazon): amzn.to/2Is2dVn
Test Prints:
New Kersey Fabrications Speed Test: www.thingiverse.com/thing:465...
Instructions on how to slice it are in the Thing description.
Batman Bust: www.myminifactory.com/object/...
Captain America Bust: www.myminifactory.com/object/...
Vampire Castle: www.myminifactory.com/object/...
Product Links:
FilamentOne Filament: www.filamentone.com/?aff=3
SainSmart Blue Flexible TPU: amzn.to/3eZjT6i
Cool Stark Industries T-shirt: amzn.to/3f7rAHP
Models:
New Bowden Adapter: www.thingiverse.com/thing:456...
For Amazon Links: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
Other purchase links may also be affiliate links.
You can support my work monthly on Patreon:
/ kerseyfabrications
You can support my work via one-time PayPal donations:
www.paypal.me/kerseyfabs
Where to find me on Social Media:
Facebook: / kerseyfabs
Instagram: / kerseyfabs
Twitter: / kerseyfabs
Contact: kris@kerseyfabrications.com
You can send me fan mail!
Kersey Fabrications
5885 Cumming Hwy
Suite 108-262
Sugar Hill, GA 30518
Privacy Policy: drive.google.com/file/d/1zEBG...
Terms of Service: drive.google.com/file/d/12SaT...
Credits:
Opening Music:
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Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/Happy-MBB
Music promoted by Audio Library • Happy - MBB (No Copyri...
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Excellent video! I really like your thorough approach covering various variables. Thank you for taking the time to do these videos.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
Thanks so much for the video. I really appreciated the bookmarks and the comparisons between before and after.
I'm glad it was useful!
Kris, very nice review. I really like your attention to detail. Also, it's nice to see a complete direct drive solution that does not rely on 3D printed or injection molded parts (except for the filament entry point).
Thanks! 👍 It really is a nice product.
Outstanding, balanced review. Well done. It's made me rethink this purchase for my Ender 3 Pro!
Glad it was helpful! 👍
The amount of effort you put in your videos, man... hats off
I appreciate it!
Excellent video, you save a lot of money on newbies, quality informative content.
This is some solid and honest advice, thanks for posting.
My pleasure! 😀
Wow Kris I'm impressed that you come back and make additional comments. I've been searching around to find out if a pancake stepper would have sufficient torque, and you answered that question in the comments. Thank you for that!
You're welcome. 😉
Thank you for this great detailed video. I'm also old fan of MicroSwiss parts and have all my printers running with MS extruder, feader and A2-based nozzles. In reality you will see significant improvements with direct drive if you use different TPUs or high temperature or abrasive fillaments. Just a suggestion based on my experience that will improve quality of your prints just changing your firmware -- in Marlin 2 enable Linear Advance( if you have switched to Klipper -- it's called Preasure Advance). Configure K-factor( you need to do this for any spool separately). And enable usage of LA in your slicer. You will have sharper corners, more consistent extrusion, drammatically increased print speeds without losing print quality. On both bowden-based and direct drive setups. The only thing is you will need board with something like 2209 drivers, especially for extruder. Good luck, and thank you for such wonderful materials!
Awesome video, seems to have solved a few issues for me and your guide was great for assembling the unit.
Great to hear! Thanks!
Dude you always have the answers I'm looking for. Thanks so much
That's fantastic! I'm happy to help.
Thanks for this very thorough review. It really helped me decide whether to get this upgrade.
Glad I could help!
Keep it up man. Really like the content you put out.
Thanks! Glad you enjoy it!
i installed this on my ender 5 plus with the help of your video. it went in flawlessly. it works flawlessly. i was a skeptic on whether it would solve some of my issues. it did. the bowden setup just sucks in my opinion. i chased setting all over the place trying to get less stringing and eliminate heat-creep. I'm not new to printing so i tend to think i can hold my own with my printer. Alicia can be a fickle be-atch. i just made sure my retraction setting were spot on and away she went. no heat-creep and zero stringing. probably the best upgrade to this printer so far. also a shout out to Kersey Fabrications. your channel is by far the best. imho.
Thank you! I'm glad you've had a good experience with it. That's why I post these videos and let people know that your results may vary. Happy printing!
Love my Micro-Swiss Ender 3 DD kit! Mounted a modified version of the hero me and the cables now mount on the left hand side allowing for the tension arm to be free of the cables! Couldn't print in TPU good before and now I am able too! Yes slow the speed down and do your calibrations!
I was kinda into 3d printing 5 years back, bought a cheap delta, only ever printed a failed benchy (hilariously under extruded, but still standed by itself) and it quit working and went into a closet. About a year ago I wanted to get back into printing but needed an actual printer. Thought about the 5pro but saw the awesome documented 5+ from your channel. Best buy I have ever made. Your videos helped me get into printing and now im even using the 5+ to do a reimagined kossel delta for fun. Keep the content up, and never let the comment trolls make you change your ways.
Thank you so much for the comment. It's a real pleasure to make these videos have have such fantastic interactions with the 3D printing community. I'm proud to have made an impact on your journey. Happy printing!
Overall, I think you did a great job covering what you actually did so we can follow what happened. Great effort.
Great video, Kris!
Thanks Lucas!
great channel man! you do a great job narrating with good articulation :D
Thank you! I really appreciate the feedback!
Great series for one that just bought his first 3D printer (ender 5 Pro). Ever thought about making a video about the best coolingpart for the ender 5 with the MSDD? I think it’s a jungle choosing between the different options 😀
Keep up the good work on your videos 👌🏼👍🏼 Very informative and professionel content 👍🏼🙏🏼
You must be clairvoyant - putting the review before the install steps was a stroke of genius. New to 3DP - loving your content!
Thank you Mike! I'm glad you liked the format. I have another long video coming out. I'll try this again if I can!
It's criminal this only has 18k views considering all the testing / work you've done for free. Thank you for all the Ender 5 plus reviews. I had the heat bed on my CR10 fail twice... And I'm finally thinking about upgrading. Would you recommend buying a PEI flex sheet for this printer, or is the bed leveling good enough without it?
Thank you so much! All I can tell you is what I do. I run directly on the glass with Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive. I used to run without the adhesive and just a clean glass but this stuff is terrific. It holds firm and releases on cooling. Here's an Amazon link if you're interested: amzn.to/2M6pq12 BTW, it also lasts a very long time with PLA.
Here's my usual post for comments and corrections. Check here first if you have any concerns. Thanks for watching!
- I left out a small note on using a 0.9° pancake stepper on the silent mainboard. I did try it and the stepper didn't have enough torque to actually extrude the filament. The pancake stepper will most likely not work on any stock board since you can't adjust the micro-stepping. I will test this on a 32-bit board in the future.
- Someone asked for the T-shirt link. Here you go: amzn.to/3f7rAHP
Damn, wish I had seen this before I got the direct drive. I am amazed at how well the Ender 5 pro does stock. My first print was amazing. I will just install the hot end so I can try some nylon x 80 percenters.
Wonder if the e-steps are calibrated properly on the direct drive. It shouldn't be missing any details unless something is off. Mine on my Ender 3 prints incredible
@@mikeb1596 Yep. I went through calibration as always.
Great video/review
Thanks for sharing :-)
My pleasure.
Love this video. Thanks for doing the comparison first. I think most people want to see the results before they see how to do things. And I thought that I was one of the few with the old Linux license plate from the 1990s. lol
Thanks Doug. That worked out nicely for this video. I love that plate and thought it goes well with some of the future content planned.
I bought a set for my Ender 3, but don't want to loose my indirect drive because of print quality with PLA. I also bought a Creality direct feed for parts to have two complete systems. I'm adding a 8 pin plug to allow fast swap between the two. Planning another plug and socket for my hot bed as well. Nice honest review.
I love these hot swap solutions. Be sure to share it when you can. Thanks for watching.
Man, every time I had a question you answered it seconds later. I was wondering about the downsides to DD, then I was wondering how much pancake steppers make a difference, then I wanted to see the results and not the installation. Lol
Thanks bro very usefull
Echoing PeaceWarrior's comment, fabulous job on creating a thorough review of this mod, thank you.
Thank you kindly!
I think the results here are due to the extruder/hotend combo. The BMG style extruders are now the gold standard for high end precision work. The gearing ratio and feed path on them make the dual drive work in a way that you aren't acheiving here. I've paired that with the mosquito hotend on my Trex-3 IDEX and it is now producing the best prints I have ever had from any printer. It's so good that I'm now upgrading all 4 of my ender 5 plus printers to use this combination with the new Bondtech DDX mounting system. It's extremely pricey to do so but in the 3D printing business world the only way to compete is with quality since everyone with a crappy Ender 3 tries you undercut you. I'd recommend you get in touch with Bondtech about trying to review the DDX. It's a new product and it could do well for you.
Hi there, do you have the links for all of those products?
@@allidsarebusy all of them are on amazon
Ralph Malan, Cape Town.
I am truly grateful for all the videos about the Ender 3 Plus you have posted. I am very interested in getting one but sorry they don’t market an Ender 5 Plus Pro with much better components on the really good basic design. You show what to expect of the various upgrades we can install.
This video showing how poor the results were by converting to a direct drive is something I am particularly interested in. I would like to suggest that you reinstall it but also change the X & Y steppers. Below is my thinking.
Newton law 3: F=ma Can be rearranged as a=F/m. a=acceletration. F=force applied. M=mass of the object. If a is to remain unchanged then if m increases by 30% so must F increase by 30%
By moving the feeder from between the back pillars to the X carriage it now adds to mass accelerated by both the X & Y motors.
The percentage increase for the X axis motor is large because previously it had to move the carriage, hot end, BL touch & fan plus the rolling resistance of the carriage. Moving the feeder complete with its motor and the new mounting plate significantly increases the mass by 330 grams. So, if the acceleration is to be maintained we need a proportionately stronger X axis motor.
The percentage increase on the Y motor is much less. Although it will also see exactly the same additional mass as the X axis it will be a much lower percentage increase because it already has quite a large load. Its load is the entire X axis beam & all that is mounted on it plus the X motor and the two trolleys for the Y travel. Thus the percentage increase caused by converting to direct drive is much less for the Y motor compared to the X motor.
If we replace the X motor by moving the existing Y motor there we will have more than compensated for the increased load so the acceleration will be increased on the X axis. (I assume the original Y motor is much more powerful than the X motor because it had so much more mass to move.)
If we buy a new Y axis motor which is significantly stronger than the existing motor then the Y axis acceleration will also be increased.
The Bowden tube and the wiring harness also impose loads on both the X & Y motors. To minimise them separate the Bowden from the wires. Let the Bowden run in a simple arc between its two ends. If the feeder motor is on the X trolley then there is no advantage gained by making the Bowden short (we are not tring to push a rope up a tube; we are pulling the rops through the tube so it runs much freer.). Let it be long so it makes a perfect semicircle when the Y axis is right at the front - height to be half the Y travel distance.
Let the electric cables hang in a free catenary curve. A few cable ties to hold the wires together rather than a stiff coiled binder. That will minimise that part of the load on the Y motor. You had the Bowden & electrics bundled together & tightly bound.
That vampire castle is drop-dead gorgeous! I'd love to hear about how you printed it, in particular what layer height you used and what nozzle size/extrusion width you used.
Late to this comment but I just now saw it.
0.2mm layer height
0.4mm nozzle
0.4mmm extrusion width, flow-adjusted to 0.42 or so.
I'll have new content outlining all of my tuning coming very soon to the channel!
@@kerseyfabs I'm really looking forward to see your tuning guide. Thanks for the awesome work 👍
What color is that pla
I remember Bowden came about as a solution to artefacts caused by the sheer mass that was having to be slung around with a direct drive and this has come around full circle.
I have changed an Ender 3 to DD only to change it back again due to bad quality prints.
I have built a Pro 3D V-King with belted Z-axis and DD and I am considering changing that to a Bowden extruder, the print quality is awesome as it is but I think I can improve on that with a Bowden set up.
I converted my Ender 5 to Direct Drive originally using a cheap kit from Canada. After living with it for a while I decided to upgrade to the MicroSwiss Set-up. So much better. I love the MicroSwiss Direct Drive. So much easier to load filament which was the problem with my first conversion. That was using the original Creality metal Extruder. Ugh!
My ender 5 has an other motor.
I contacted micro swiss and I got a very fast reaction with advise.
I am very impressed with the speed and that they advised me what motor to get.
The info about the motor is on their site, but I naught mine in an other webshop in my country and they didn't mention it.
But the motor isn't expensive and the new motor is lighter, so that is also a good thing.
Very nice! Thanks for the feedback!
A lot of people aren’t very objective when comparing things. I’ll take side by side comparisons from someone who demonstrates with prior prints that they really know what they’re doing, over random people online any day of the week.
Lots of YT personalitys only there for the $$$ and free products. Most of them have to praise a product in exchange for free stuff even if it's complete junk.
I've been considering the Ender 5 Plus for it's enclosure potential. I've wondered about converting to core xy and x axis linear rails on the inside edge of the top frame rails or the top edge of the bed rail mounts. I like the printer for it's adaptability to upgrades / hot ends and possible ease of conversion to core xy and enclosure. I ordered an Ender 6 because most of this is done including a better main board. I only have to come up with a top cover. And as far as I am concerned, if you want to make mechanical parts you need an enclosure and there are very very few printers available to choose from. They all have some problem or two. I see the trend to core xy as very strong leading design. Cro-xy to follow possibly as slightly superior.
Thanks!
Hi Kris . thanks for the great videos and keep up the great work . my question is whats your go to set up for a Ender 5 plus hot end?
I got this from Amazon £99 and installed it today i absolutely love it. i was getting zits all over my prints with the Bowden setup, but now i have this direct drive and printing at the same speed 80ms my prints are so so so much better and quality is amazing now, Very happy, Thanks for the vid KF :)
Great to hear!
Great job as always. One thing I noticed after I upgraded my ender 5 plus, the temp got VERY hot on the bracket and stepper on a long print job. I guess the combination between the stepper and hotend, the heat generated on the bracket was MUCH hotter than normal. So, I did not like the fact that this heat was also being transferred to the stepper during a long print job. I went back to stock and sent back the kit.
You could have made a small gasket put kf TPU between the motor and bracket, I bet it could have at least helped a bit.
Holy crap.... I was hoping you had a video like this two days ago lol. I just installed this mod last night and also started using Cura instead of Simplify3D (with the same exact settings as Simplify3d). Now I am getting such great prints! I printed "The Child" from the Mandalorian yesterday and today @ 80mm/s and it came out amazing! I just need to fine tune the tree supports to be better at the model contact points. I also have the silent board, so my printer sits right next to my bed... Now to figure out how to make the fans quieter without losing the quality of cooling.
I'm really glad you're having an excellent experience with the mod. I'd love to hear more about your settings.
@@kerseyfabs I was mistaken on my "80mm/s", that was what the infill speed was.(Still trying to get my head wrapped around Cura's settings differences) My current settings are as follows:
Print Temp: 200c(eSun PLA+)
Build Plate: 60c
.2mm Layer height
Flow: 89%
Speed: 80mm/s infill. 40mm/s wall speed
Walls: 2
Top/Bottom Layers: 4
Retraction: 1.5mm @ 35mm/s
Everything else is default for the Ender 5 plus profile.
Excellent video, I have both style of printers Enders 5 plus and CR10V3 and the CR10 is just a fantastic printer, I can't say the same for the E5P. I'm hoping after a direct drive conversion my feeling about this printer will change.
Thanks for sharing. I've never owned a CR10 myself but I know a lot of people that love them. I have a couple of other DD solutions I'm looking at.
Did direct drive conversion improve the E5P?
I installed this a few months ago on my ender 5. Everything tuned to perfection and it is really amazing. I got it for the reliability that the crap stock hot end does not have. I could not stand the frequent Bowden tube gaps and tube deterioration due to heat at the nozzle, as well as the crap fittings failing after a week or two. I print every day and since installing the microswiss, I have been maintenance free for several months with zero quality deterioration!
This is exactly why I watched this review, to see if it would be worth it to remove the bowden tube gap problem on my Ender 5. It is strange how it can print perfect and develop a gap due to the connectors losing grip I guess. Thank you for the information!
I will say I printed TPU with just upgrading to capricorn tubing and an EZR Struder and it looks really good....at lower speeds (30mms).
I still worry about the micro swiss hotend with printing PLA as I am just not sold on if it actually does have a heat creep problem with stock cooling or not. 1 person says yes, 1 person says no...
Great review as usual but it did not help me make up my mind yet lol Heat creep and the massive weight (reduced printing speeds for quality compared to bowden setup) are the sticking points.
Thanks for the information, this is the primary reason I'm looking at this upgrade.
I have the Micro Swiss hotend on all of my Ender 5s. It makes them super reliable and makes the nozzles easy to swap. I can't guarantee performance of course but I love them. The Direct Drive is personal preference.
@@kerseyfabs would you say direct drive is more reliable? I don't print anything terribly detailed and am more concerned with reliability than raw speed or detail.
Not necessarily. Buy good parts and upgrade some of the components and bowden is still very reliable.
G'day Kris, long time watcher first time commenter. Was curious what you mean when you say fully tuned in your "rant" about printing the vampire castle? Cheers mate love the content.
Thanks for watching and commenting! I mean taking the time to actually tune the printer in terms of: properly tensioned belts, properly tuning the rollers or rails, and then getting steps/mm and flow rate correct on the extruder. I've covered some of this in my videos but I plan a proper tuning video as soon as possible.
Awesome thanks Mate. I look forward to it if you do get the time.
I've converted my Ender 3 to DD because of all the hype, first with just a bracket and stock extruder, then BMG and finally BMG with pancake sidemounted. My aim was to minimize stringing with PETG, even though I had no heavy stringing with Bowden (very light hairs at 225C and gigantic 15mm ret). Short story - it didn't really helped. Yes, prints can be faster because of the shorter retractions (I've tried 1.5-6mm, above 3mm seems to not make any significant difference, 2mm is a nice middleground) plus stock extruder gained a little more OOMPF thanks to the straighter filament travel from the spool, but additional weight is there and produce more ringing. Overall I would say quality is the same (between bowden and DD on stock and DD on BMG). Also loading filament with BMG is just such a pain in the back and it can flatten filament very easily if pressure is adjusted incorrectly.
Hi Kris,
Thanks so much for all your videos, I have learned so much from watching them. I have over the last 6 months set up a very similar Ender 5 Plus system to what you have. I recently had installed the swiss micro direct drive extruder and was having some print quality issues. I recently seem to have fixed most of those issues. A few things really helped a lot!
1, tension the belts to be fairly taught (they should pluck like a guitar string),
2, put the units on a very solid table with a heavy garden stone underneath,
3, probably the biggest impact on the problem was using the linear advance feature and the app from Marlin to tune the k valve for the extruder for the filament I am using (currently PLA from FilaCube) for a nozzle temp of 210 deg C - a k of 0.14 seemed optimal)
Following this - I printed your speed test pattern (also with a speed range of 40 to 120 mm/s) and saw slightly less ringing that you showed for the Bowden drive. I also tuned the acceleration (1000 worked well) and the junction deviation (J=0.2 seemed to work well) But honestly, the linear advance made the greatest impact on the system. I would at this point highly recommend finding the optimal k value for all new filaments, it is a very simple and fast procedure. Subsequently, I printed a Benchy at 100 cm/sec and at a 0.2 mm layer height and it was one of the better Benchys I have made so far.
Also as a side note, I have had a number of problems with my BLtouch sensor not always stopping the z drive and I end up having to relevel my bed way too frequently (recently I have adjusted the core by lowering it a bit and that has made a difference). So I think the ability to auto level the bed using the independent control of the two z stepper drives would be very desirable. I am using the mini E3 V2 and am interested in either the E3 turbo or the Pro V1.2 - what are your thoughts on those two? Also, can the E3 turbo be used with a closed-loop stepper motor? I sometimes see layer shift within the x-axis (for some reason it is only in the x-axis). Again thanks for all your hard work this a really great channel.
Thanks Robert. I'll try some of your suggestions on my direct drive.
I love the Pro V1.2 and plan to do a video on it soon.
You can't used the closed loop motors on any board with on-board steppers because the motors have an adapter that you need the removable stepper slots to be able to install. Please keep in mind that I'm not a huge fan of the closed loop steppers for two reasons:
1) They generally use older stepper drivers onboard. I don't know any that are based on TMC driver. So noise and no tweaking from Marlin.
2) Usually if your motor skips it because something else went wrong. Under proper conditions, your motors should never skip. So this may be under current, too fast, too much acceleration/jerk, over-extrusion, etc. I feel they mask other under-lying conditions.
to modify the E-Step you can also open a text doc on you computer enter the gcode [M302 S0G92 E0G0 E100] or whatever you need your extrusion to be, save it as a .gcode file, insert it into the machine and run it as a print, and it'll flash the motherboard.
I'm new to this scene but from what I've heard, seen and learned, I think the hot end makes more of a difference than the position of the filament feed motor
I have to agree with you. I'm still not a believer that a direct drive extruder solves many problems other than with flexible filaments.
First of all, Thank you for your work on this video. I have one of these on the way for my ender 5 plus. Out of curiosity why not use the body of the old extruder instead of the misaligned printed part. I have a all metal Creality extruder and it seems to me that if I remove the arm and all the other parts that I don't need, I'd be left with the perfect tube mount that will align perfectly with the filament sensor and give me a little more room in between them to feed the filament.
All ready bought and did it on my ender 3 pro so I hope so. I still have another stock e3pro too.
I hope yours work well for you!
What is the filament used for the vampire castle, its very nice. thanks, great video.
Hi Kris, any update on a calibrating guide, steps per millimetre... say for skr mini or something. Brilliant Videos by the way.
Thank you! It's in the queue. Give me a few weeks and I'll have it up.
Thanks for everything. There is one thing I didn't get tough: are you comparine the direct drive with the stock ender 5 plus parts or with the capricorn bowden tube, some different nozzle or an all metal extruder?
High Temps? CFnylon? Can't be done with OG Boden set-up. Flexible is fun! Great video.
Hi
First I would like to say a big thanks to Kris,Dave at Tripods Garage and all the other tutorials I have viewed over the last few months.
I bought an Ender 5 plus at the end of September. Realised straight away that it was far too noisy ! So , rather ambitiously I decided to upgrade the mainboard (again following tutorials).
So I now have
Ender 5 Plus
BigTreeTech SKR 2 rev B
TMC 2208 Steppers
Marlin 2.09 Bugfix
MicroSwiss Hotend and Direct Drive Extruder
BigTreeTech TFT35 v3.0 Display
The direct drive extruder was a no brainer as i have a movement disorder which made filament spool changes kinda interesting !
I fried an awful lot of steppers 'til I got my firmware settings stable (I'm a chef so frying is one of my specialities).
My 5+ came with the Meanwell PSU- this was a bit more constrictive space-wise so I routed all the control wires underneath the PSU
and also used the original printer port with a suitable hole cut in the case.
Some of the (many) problems I have encountered may help others :
With the original board The printer buried the hot end in the bed . This completely destroyed the BL touch .Tip : Have a spare / replace.
The Tram wheels were prone to loosening mid print (again original board).Will replace with silicone doughnuts ?
Thermistor screws coming loose
Wiring connections throwing up all sorts of issues (Soldering works best )
Talking of wiring the TFT connection was a little ambiguous.
Serial connection took a little time ( "no printer attached") but I got there
Once I had a reliable Marlin that worked I went on to the next phase - MicroSwiss hotend and direct drive .
This went perfectly smoothly except ! No extrusion ...so after a lot of work and head scratching and even more slicing .What it came down to was retraction distance - best advice I found for a direct drive was between 0 and 2.0 mm.This did not work on my setup.I gradually incremented this and now have a working figure of 5.5mm / speed 50
I now have printed off the parts for the Hero Me Gen 5 Cooling parts and will be adding this to my rig (awaiting some fans).
I have learnt such a lot from this (time costly experience) and look forward to my next upgrades >
Thanks Nick for your experiences! I'm so glad to have you in the community and printing. All the best!
got 5plus:
DD Bmg+e3d v6 - 0.8 retract /15mms
60-80mms outside corner speed.
But use Bowden for long and simple prints.coz it’s lighter weight.
Thanks for the video. A question I have is what size of pancake motor do you suggest? I need to know size and perhaps a model number to replace the existing extruder motor. Thanks
Thanks for the video, I've actually been holding off buying this upgrade till you did the review. Now I will wait, but may go to the all metal hot end. I would really be curious to see a short video on your TPU stock setup and settings. I am pretty happy with my results of PLA/PLA+ but only about 20% of my TPU prints are any good.
Great video! Did you ever identify and try a lighter alternative pancake stepper motor?
I have one but I never got it setup on this machine. I just wasn't happy with the performance personally, so that wouldn't have done much in terms of extrusion.
Have to say Chris, your videos are making me question a lot of what I've learned about 3D printers...practically every other UA-camr constantly bangs on about direct drive, new extruder, new hotend...in fact I don't remember ever seeing a 3d printing UA-camr say "use it stock, with tuning". Thinking that we have to treat all 3d printers as a constant tinkering workload is quite off-putting for those of us who just want to use them to print. So it's refreshing to see someone printing really nice things from a stock 3d printer!
Thanks! That actually make me really happy to hear! Not all printers are "good" out of the box. Some have technical problems and some are simply not tuned. I honestly need to finish one more tuning video to show people what I do end to end but it's a simple process, just takes a bit of time. In the mean time, be sure to check out Matt's Hub tutorial about steps and flow: mattshub.com/blogs/blog/extruder-calibration
And then watch my video on temperature and retraction: ua-cam.com/video/HKCGxeArGP4/v-deo.html
Great video, but Klipper Input Shaper almost completely eliminates ringing simply by sending smarter gcode. Switching from bowden to direct drive is always a good idea.
I upgraded just a few days ago with this upgrade kit (including their hot-end). It was a really simple upgrade, the hardest part was trying to remember how to store my updated z offset. Have run off a few prints since and can already see a positive effect with stringing almost eliminated, and I’ve not done any tuning in the slicer yet. Can absolutely recommend if you want an easy upgrade that will give you better prints.
Thanks for the feedback Phil!
I’ve been watching a lot if not all of your videos on the ender 5+. I just ordered my Ender 5+. Haven’t even gotten it yet first thing I did was order a new power supply. Second thing I want to do is install a new motherboard. Something 32 bit. I saw your video just haven’t ordered it yet. I was wondering if you’re going to be having any more recommendations for the ender 5 plus? Also is there a magnetic flexible Build plate for this machine? I’ve been looking haven’t seen anything that size?
Very noice review. Thanks a lot. Maybe direct drive is really a little overhyped.
I think so. There are use cases for it but not every printer needs it.
Awesome & very in depth review, thank you for the work & effort you put forth. What are all the upgrades you would recommend for the 5 plus? I will be printing mostly using NylonX/CF Nylon/PLA+ Filament. Also,do you think upgrading to a duet 2 is worth the money? I would like to have the ability to monitor my printing while away or would doing a raspberry pi w/Octo be a better option. Thanks in advance.
Thank you! I have a top five upgrade video that's still pretty relevant on this subject. I may do a new one soon. The Duet boards are nice high-end hardware. I don't think they're overpriced but I do think they're too expensive for the average consumer. My personal choice is (currently) a Bigtreetech board with Octoprint. Octoprint is just such a nice robust system with a TON of plugins.
@@kerseyfabs for that setup recommendation, would I also need a raspberry pi? Or does that Bigtreetech board negate the need for one. Also, which Bigtreetech board would you recommend 🤙(using Ender 5+)
You still the Raspberry Pi for OctoPrint. That's a tough question on which board. I usually recommend the E3 Turbo but there are some people having, a yet undiagnosed, overheating issue with it. I don't know how widespread it is. So maybe the SKR 2 but I don't have out my guide yet. It's coming.
I’m curious if you contacted Micro-Swiss tech support . If so , did they recommend to swap out any other motors or parts . Lastly , have you been able to iron out everything & has your opinion changed ???
Did you ever create a guide on calibrating the stepper or can you recommend one on the ender five plus?
No but I've been working on some of these guides recently. I released the leveling guide and a filament tuning guide will be out soon. Here's the guide I use for calibration. I'll have some additional tweaks in my version: mattshub.com/blogs/blog/extruder-calibration
Nice video, thanks. Totally new to 3D world got E5+ as my first printer. The cable connector is different than what's coming out of the E5+ PSU. How do I connect that? TIA
Ender 5 stock hot end with titanium heat break and a Hero Me Gen 3 single 5015 part cooling fan. I'm VERY happy with my results and direct drive is not needed on the Ender 5. The only other change to the printer is a T8 2 mm 1 start lead screw and Z steps set to 1600.
My retractions are set to 2 mm @ 45 mm sec
That's impressive retraction on a stock hotend.
@@kerseyfabs it's only by virtue of the titanium heat break which eliminates the PTFE tubing in the hot end. $12 for 2 on Amazon and a lot cheaper than a Micro Swiss hot end. I replace all of my Creality J-head heat breaks with these titanium heat breaks. Much more reliable and much less prone to clogging. Eliminates the need for the Luke Hatfield Bowden tube fix that isn't really a fix. I've also replaced the heat break on my Sainsmart Coreception 300 Core XY printer as it uses the same hot end as the Creality printers.
@@kerseyfabs
www.amazon.com/dp/B07JD2S4GK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_uOfSFbQRFHF7R
The X and Y changes a little bit because the Nozzle is not exactly where the OEM Nozzle was, you need to adjust for it.
Didn't see PETG test, but I swapped Ender 3 to Direct Drive(the cheap kit) PETG is an absolute pleasure to print with now, TPU as well of course.
So now I've swapped Tronxy X5SA Pro to Hemera(omg what a chore)
And I had the Microswiss in my Ender5Plus but the stringing issues with anything but PLA(not to mention the clogs)...have me favoring giving up speed to go full micro swiss direct drive.
if you don't plan on going above 60mm/s print speed, and using TPU or PETG Direct Drive makes it so much better....as in I actually might buy PETG because it's cheaper than PLA+
37:56 I should be so lucky ... pulling it off. Teeth always get jammed and have to push it backwards all the way off the other end off the Bowden Tube which has an easier to remove pneumatic fitting
Tell me about it. It even happens with the high-end ones. Those tubes are just soft.
@@kerseyfabs I'll have to buy some PROPER Capricorn ; THANKING YOU and for great videos'Twitted
The original x-wagon is pretty much exactly 200g total with everything attached (just weighed it). Adding the 330g extra for this conversion makes it 530g, so the x-motor has to push 2,65 times of the original weight.
Understood. There's almost always a tradeoff.
Hi, new to 3D printing and just bought an Ender 5 Plus, considering this mod. Your video prompted a question though. A buddy of mine 3D printed something for me that had inset test like the test print. There was terrible stringing all across it. The stl is pretty straightforward so is that an issue with how we were slicing it? Does that require a G-Code modification or is that something that can be controlled in the slicer itself?
That's a pretty complicated question. It is all in the slicer though. First you need to tune your extruder and flow. Check out this guide: mattshub.com/blogs/blog/extruder-calibration
Then you need to tune the temperature and retraction for your filament. I have a video on that on this channel. There are other tweaks you can do but those come first.
Keep the old adapter move it to the top holes should be enough spacing for the offset
I added this to my ender 5 printer and the install was easy. I did everything right, all the belts are properly tensioned and everything is square but now my prints come out slanted a couple of degrees on the x axis.
That seems really odd, like it's skipping a step fairly regularly. Have you tried to slow down you acceleration or jerk?
Great videos. Can you share the config for stock tpu printing? Thanks
You just persuaded me against buying a DD unit. I don't feel I really need it and given the extra weight, I think ill steer clear for now. Nicely done, great, informative video.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad I could help either way.
Maybe the improvement of print quality your patreons are seeing is rather due to the all metal hotend (contra stock hotend with slipping bowden tube) than due to the direct drive. I personally bought the DD kit because I wanted to switch to all metal hotend and thought: Less retraction, less likely clogs.
That's a great hypothesis. The all metal hotend is one of my first go-to upgrades.
What pancake stepper motor would you recommend for this setup on a ender 5 plus?
I THOROUGHLYenjoyed this video and your method of testing... well done, but I think that both you and direct drive fans can be correct at the same time... reason being that your settings for the old setup were extremely fine tuned from a long time of experience and admittedly your new setup needed tweaking... I imagine that there should be differing heat needs between the 2 with th different hot end design/ machining for instance... also, you didn't explore whether you had much fewer print fails for the month with the tiny travel distance between the extruder and hot end... but awesome vid... thanks for PRILINE Carbon Fiber the assembly at the very end.
Also, shorter print times are a God-send if you live in a country with high electricity bills. :)
Thanks Sean! I actually didn't mean to discourage DD fans, only point out that it's not the magic bullet some people try to make it out to be. I believe I acknowledged that I need more time on this and I'm actually working on it some today. For the record, my hotends are the same on both DD and Bowden and I really don't have failures on my regular printer related to extrusion.
You had the castle hose nicely printed on the Bowden setup with virtually no stringing visible, then why was there significantly more stringing on the Eifel tower print with the same setup?🤔
Hey man I'm trying to get my ender 5 plus started here and it's a nightmare. The self leveling won't work , one side goes down and the other stays still , I can self level but right when I got to print everything checks out fine but it gives me thermistor error. I made sure I had the correct white wire connected because I know there's two and people get confused that. Any ideas !
Chris -- could you clarify? For your test prints, did you adjust the jerk and acceleration to suit the new heavier carriage (+motor etc), or did you leave it the same as with the stock carriage? If the latter, I'm thinking that would hamper the quality of your prints, especially the details as in the Eiffel Tower, no? Also your weight comparison was indeed remarkable (and later comments that a pancake motor didn't have enough torque). It seems like this particular DD kit piles on the weight of a heavier motor because of lack of reduction gearing (well, also to save cost as you're reusing the existing motor I guess).. It seems to me this is not an optimum use of the stepper motor --- it's really demanding torque that's in short supply, while not using speed that the stepper motor could easily supply. So a design using a pancake motor and reduction gearing ought to be a better performance/weight balance.
I ended up with PrinterMods DD for the 5 Pro because the MS unit hadn't been known to me. Otherwise I would have gone whole hog MS with DD and all metal hot end.
But when I got the MS all metal hot end I opted to not replace the nearly new PM DD unit.
How's that one working for you?
@@kerseyfabs pretty well. I don't print at high speeds any longer. My speed is generally 40.
What prompted the change was when my bowden coupler at the extruder failed twice taking the print with it. That and small retractions have improved my print quality.
Went with the all metal hot end when I "stuffed" my OEM hot end. Could have worked to clear it and may well still as I kept it. The new one that is easier to work with. If I ever decide to print with flexible filament the DD and all metal hot end should help me considerably.
Glad I viewed this. Now i know I can relax on feeling that I MUST HAVE a direct drive. My Bowden is fine!
I'm glad I could help.
Where a DD could have a big impact is going to be the flexible filaments like TPU. Retractions are hard enough but retracting into a long bowden tube is very painful.
Otherwise if you don't have problems don't upgrade. That has been my mantra for a lot of things, not just 3D printers.
@@tonykyle2655 true, and he did mention that. I should have made a comment about the flexibles exception.
@@mikeygee4564 I must have missed that. Have a bad habit of forwarding through what I think will be dull parts. :D
How far did you get into retraction tuning?
I put this on my Ender 3 and struggled for a week or two to get the retractions right at every variable between 1 and 4 mm retraction. Eventually I found that 0.25mm at 25mm/s was perfect and I had less stringing and better extrusions than I ever had stock. I never thought going so much lower than what they recommend on the kit would help as much as it did. I only tried it out of frustration. With your test prints I’m just wondering if you missed the sweet spot on yours as well.
Great video and breakdown either way!
Thank you for your feedback! I'll give that a shot. I definitely didn't try anything that short.
Pls do give an update if that helped
thats weird my adapter lined up perfect on my ender 5 plus, if you would take that bulky black tubing off and zip tie your wire bundle to the ptfe tube it holds up perfect,,, i was really hoping you would install a part cooling solution on to the DD setup maybe a dual 5015 setup
You mention not worrying about the PFTE tube butting up to the nozzle when going to the micro swiss hotend. Are you saying swapping to the micro swiss hotend doesnt require the "hot end" fix?
That is 100% correct. The tube only goes into the top of an all-metal hotend and will not need any sort of fix.
I'm using the pancake stepper motor on my microswiss direct drive E5, no issues so far. I'm not sure wether it makes a big difference in terms of artifacts when printing with higher speed since I usually print with 60mm/s. I'm curious what retraction values you end up using. Microswiss recommends 1.5mm retraction distance at a speed of 35mm/s. These values work but I did get quite a lot of oozing on more complicated prints.
I left out a small note on using a 0.9° pancake stepper on the silent mainboard. I did try it and the stepper didn't have enough torque to actually extrude the filament. The pancake stepper will most likely not work on any stock board since you can't adjust the micro-stepping. I will test this on a 32-bit board in the future.
For my retraction, I was using 2mm @40mm/s.
@@kerseyfabs my bad, I missed the note. I'm currently using the SKR Mini E3 V1.2 running Marlin 2.0.7.2, never got to test the pancake motor on the creality boards
Which motor are you using? Did you have to go with lower microstepping?
@@kerseyfabs BondTech
NEMA17 Pancake Stepper 25mm, stock voltage values. I'm so far getting consistent extrusions with no firmware modifications
Ok, so what if you use Klipper input shaping to compensate for weight and vibration. Did you try that?
Now I'm very curious as to see if the stock extrusion was turned into an direct drive and test it against the Swiss and the stock bowden setup.
Do you have an adapter of some sort in mind?
@@kerseyfabs www.thingiverse.com/thing:3589452 this is the one im currently using on my ender 3. Really wanted to try direct drive out to see for myself the advantages/disadvantages. I didn't want to drop alot of money to find a hated it. So I found a few on thingiverse that were free and simple 1part print. I've tried a few othes but after installing them have all had issue. Some the motor was hitting the frame (not a big issue if using sensorless homing cus it just stops) there is a block that clips to the gantry and hits the endstop, at the expense of bed space. Others had wire placement issues or just ridiculous. This one was 1 part and had none of the issues the others had. So far I like it and it doesn't add a ton since its just pla not metal. Its actually made me question if these expensive 100 dollar drives are kind of a scam since I can make a perfectly good running direct drife drive for free. Its doing the exact same thing in the end. The part is super simple and was a pretty quick print. And uses everything thats currently being used in the stock bowden system. I am also using a gen 5 hero me. Ive had great results so far and haven't had 1 single extrusion issue whatsoever. No more jams and substantially less stringing. I really wish I printed a benchy before converting it to direct drive to compare quality. But yeah. This is definitely a great free direct drive. I highly recommend to anyone curious about direct drive to try it. I wouldn't be surprised to find it works just as well as any high end conversion kit.
Just bought the MS hotend for mine, the stock was so bad just leak leak leak despite trying various ways of tightening it
Chris, with a 117g difference between the standard motor and the pancake motor, it MAY be worth rerunning stuff with the pancake motor. While both are a massive increase in mass when compared to the stock setup, the 117g difference may make a significant difference.
I left out a small note on using a 0.9° pancake stepper on the silent mainboard. I did try it and the stepper didn't have enough torque to actually extrude the filament. The pancake stepper will most likely not work on any stock board since you can't adjust the micro-stepping. I will test this on a 32-bit board in the future.
@@kerseyfabs Thanks for the extra information. What do you think the odds are that adjusting the micro-stepping will make it work? My instinct would be that it would be unlikely to compensate that much, but I would still think it worth trying. My economic status continues to be an issue, so I am not in a position to do much. Lot of hopes for 2021.
From previous experience, I think it will work but I'm not 100% sure until I test. Sorry about your situation, I hope 2021 is better for everyone.
This has long been my assumption about direct drive conversions. Anytime someone is spending hours to convince you it does something, it probably doesn't. After years of research, direct drive setups appear to really only impact flexible filaments, and even then, it isn't substantial. I think like a lot of modifications for sale for many different products are targeting their customers opinions and not the actual advantages. I honestly think a lot of the "improvements" you hear about are people who were unable to tune their bowden setup. The opinions are very similar to reading amazon reviews on filament. You always get tons of people saying any filament is trash and then showing pictures of a CLEARLY terrible setup printer. They just don't know how to tune them.
couldnt be further from the truth. every single print i do is better for it. THIS setup isnt anything special, but a good direct drive? MASSIVE improvment. So far off its not even funny. MS is the problem NOT direct drive.
I brought the Microswiss Hotend/Direct Drive setup so I could print higher temperature filaments but have found that the Ender 5+ firmware only heats the hotend up to 260 degrees. Do you think you could update your firmware mod to enable it to go to 290 or 300? Awesome videos by the way :D :D
Thanks! Which board are you using? Stock?
@@kerseyfabs Yeap, stock board for now :)
@@kerseyfabs that's awesome man! Thank you very much :D :D
It looks like UA-cam deleted my link. Let's try again: bit.ly/E5PHT
Most people dont understand jerk or acceleration changes like myself when messing with firmware. Do you have a way to test this?
I understand that it can be a bit confusing. So jerk has to do with how fast it can start moving, usually in a change of direction (instantaneous velocity). The lower it is, the "safer" the start. You would start low (8 mm/s for example) and then work your way up until you see artifacts. Acceleration is just that, how fast can you speed up. You would start low again (500 mm/s^2 for example) and then work your way up until you see artifacts. Now keep in mind that these two can play off of each other and you're searching for a happy medium. You will also potentially need to change these as you print faster or slower. It can be time consuming and frustrating if you really want to dial it in. Frankly, I like to find a lower value that works and just leave it alone. I like the answer to this post as well: 3dprinting.stackexchange.com/questions/212/how-do-i-determine-the-acceleration-value-for-my-printer
I Installed the creality one. This backplate seams the same. How did you fix the center offset? Hotend is and bltouch measures to far left now .
If you're running a Marlin 2.x firmware, you can use gcode M851 to move it. If you're using stock firmware, you have to recompile.
@@kerseyfabs thank you for the reply and suggestion. Someone said they moved the stop sensor over to compensate. Easier then messing with firmware at this time. Worked really well
Hi there, it's look interesting using Enders 5 plus series. So I want to buy 3d printer but still confusing between 5 plus and cr 10 Pro v2, each type have a pros and cons, btw is it your 5plus many major issues? And when you upgrade from original direct drive to micro Swiss is it better? And can it printing aluminium, abs, carbon filament using micro swiss without any issues? Thanks
My take on the Ender 5 Plus.
The 5 Plus I got has had endless annoying mechanical issues (the frame is not properly square, leading to binding), and initially some weird printing issues. The printing issues turned out to be a finicky SD-card reader in the board that caused dropouts during printing (I bought the ‘silent’ upgrade board, but assume the stock board would have the same problem). Unfortunately, while trying different firmware to try to resolve these issues the display got borked with a failed firmware update, resulting in more cost and delay to get another.
I have accumulated the parts to replace the Creality board and display with a BigTreeTech SKR V1.4 Turbo mainboard and TFT35-E3 display. It’s more work replacing it all, but hopefully will result in much better reliability. (I have put the model for the TFT35-E3 display housing up on Thingiverse, adapting some other peoples’ work for different display housings.)
If you buy one, and have issues, skip over the Creality upgrades as they’re not worth it - the ‘silent’ board is silent, but still underpowered and costs more than a better BigTreeTech solution. You can use the BTT SKR mini E3 V2 or SKR V1.4 to drive the 5 Plus, and can keep the stock display if you want (but will probably need to change the firmware for best use, which can brick it as I found out).
Creality have an Ender 6 coming out, which probably portends a 6 Plus. This is Core XY, which is considered a better solution by a lot of people. Creality have also finally moved to better 32-bit boards with these newer machines. Cost is likely to be similar to the 5 Plus. Maybe wait a bit if you can, and there may be a better option for the same money.