Thanks, Mike! It took me a long time to get to this point with the plan. I'm really excited because I am finally back to working on the train room. I'm glad you like it so far!
Picking Donner has definitely made me focus more on equipment that will actually be relevant to the layout. It's probably a good thing, as I'm less tempted to buy other stuff. I'm glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
Great analysis--glad to hear the train room is getting closer! Your logic is very interesting to listen to--can't wait to see it! Must mean we have another video of the consist build coming--you'll need that for the layout. Thanks
I'm glad you liked the video. And yes, I am still planning to finish the consist build. I think it would be awesome to re-create the train I photographed in the real town of Truckee in my HO version of Truckee on the layout. Thanks for watching!
In addition to the Siren Creek project (since I model N scale) I'm very excited to see this one happen. I can't wait to see your Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt consist with the Conrail borrowed power parked at Truckee to recreate the famous photos you took back in 1993.
I am excited to be able to do that very thing. I think re-creating the whole train would be great (though the grain cars will have to be stand ins since I didn't take pictures of any of those at the time). I think I have a workable cover design for the Siren Creek, too, so as soon as I can get that built I can work on it again (without having to worry about our kitties). Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi I was thinking about a possible storage / cat counter measure for the Siren Creek layout as well for when its not being used. It would be very easy to put together a simple lid that can un-latch. Which i'm sure you have a simple and elegant design for already. What I was going to suggest to keep weight down it could be made out of something like Coroplast which would be light weight, have some flex so as to not crack, and yet be strong enough to support the weight of a cat as long as the construction uses some gussets or additional lateral shear supports.
Enjoyable summary of layout design and considerations - I can relate. The track plan is very well done and pretty ambitious. I am a big SP fan in northern California because I grew up in the Davis/Sacramento area in the 70's and 80's so your layout has a lot of appeal! I've gone through a similar process of "givens and druthers" and had a space of about 15x36 feet to model the D&RGW about ten years earlier than you - basically late caboose era (1977-1985). I settled upon 32" minimum curves and a single track mainline with 2 passing sidings, a yard and a 11 track staging yard. Max grade 1.8% or less. The space is narrower than yours and wasn't a nice open rectangle, so it took a bit of creativity to maximize the use and have the longest run possible. Passing sidings are 21 feet long and able to handle visually long trains. If you want to see my progress visit the AtlasRescueForum\HO Model Railroad Forum\Project Archive\Jims Layout Topic/Blog. Nice to see you have a track plan and getting into layout building! Having grown up in northern California, I used to travel up to the Sierra's to ski or go back packing or hiking and the SP Donner Pass has some great scenery to be modeled. Get ready to make a lot of pine trees! Like you, my previous layout was a duck-under but I wanted to utilize the entire space for an around the walls layout in a 10x18' basement room in a townhome. This time around I had enough space to design a layout that is completely walk-in in the basement (we have basements in Virginia, a very rare thing in California! My layout design lets me follow a train from staging, the entire way to the main yard, where the track will enter a helix an go back to staging (so continuous run is possible). I've gone through much of your list of considerations and that was after digesting John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation, a book I highly recommend. I chose not to do a full double deck due to the complexity and time to build, which I struggle to find hobby time. A lot of people who have built a double deck afterward regret it. Mine is partially double decked to have a large staging yard in a lower level and a branch line on the lower level, which I laid most of the support structure and track before doing the main level. Wow, 4" separation between staging yard and main level! I thought I had limited clearance of 7.5 inches on my previous layout. This one I have about 10 inches and used threaded rods for most open possible. I too wanted to fit as much of my trains on the layout as possible, but the most tracks I could fit are 11 tracks double ended tracks but there is a single ended yard squeeze more trains in as well. The double ended staging tracks range from 17' to 24' in length.
That's a lot of great information about your layouts. It sounds like you came to some of the same conclusions I did from your experience. I'm hoping I don't regret the double deck idea. I didn't feel like I could really get what I wanted in my space without it. I was originally going to just have staging on the lower deck, but I realized that some of the space could be put to better use. Also, since I decided to have the flyover at Eder, I also need to have a second flyover, which is why I included the one at Applegate. Otherwise I'd have a big figure 8 instead of double track. I still consider the upper deck to be the main attraction. You're right that a lot of trees will be involved. One reason I wanted to model the line into Nevada is that there are a lot fewer trees on that side! Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi Hopefully double decking will work out for you. It certainly give you a lot more layout to run longer trains and represent more of the Donner Pass! But it is more complex to build. My semi double deck is my first effort at a larger layout so I didn't want mine to get too complex and with limited hobby time I'm finding it difficult to get more progress. Good point about less trees into Boca and Nevada. One of the things I find appealing about modeling Grande Junction Colorado and into eastern Utah also is the lack of trees, and I find Ruby Canyon to be a really pretty feature too, and desert scenery has it's own appeal. It won't keep me from running some SP trains. I look forward to your progress on your Donner Pass! Maybe you can squeeze in some caboose era trains for us older fans! LOL
Wow, that’s such a fantastic layout plan Dan. Especially including all the interesting details and scenic spots found particularly at Norden with the covered turntable, I can’t wait to hear more about what you have planned for your layout!
I'm glad you like the plan. I thought Norden was too interesting not to include. I'm using some modelers license to make the turntable functional. My understanding is that there was some kind of mishap in the 80s and the turntable bridge was fixed in place after that. I will probably have to build it as a cutaway model, otherwise there would be no way to see what's going on in there. Thanks for watching!
Excellent video. I decided to choose the early 90's era as well. However, I also wanted to model the Kansas City area of my youth. So I decided to ignore the mergers and pretend the MKT, Frisco and MoPac continued into the 90's. Adding in the Santa Fe gave me everything I wanted. It still allows prototypical running and I get to paint Dash-8's, 9's and SD-70's in MKT, Frisco and MoPac schemes. What a great hobby! Looking forward to your next video.
Daniel, I want to thank you for your excellent videos. Lately I've been hooked on all your product reviews. This one, though, about layout planning is really quite well presented and I will watch it over and over to take it all in and incorporate it into my planning. This is really something to look forward to. Best I've seen yet. Thanks and be well. It's really great how you and your wife work so well together as a team and co-operate in planning to not intrude on each others spaces.
Thanks so much for the kind words. I will be doing a Part 2 of this video, where I'm going to go into more detail about why I made certain choices, as well as showing a plan that didn't work and talking about why. There are more reviews coming too. I'm glad you like the videos on the channel. Thanks for watching!
Me, too. I still have some work to do on the room before I can start on the layout itself, but it was a huge milestone for me to create a plan. Thanks for watching!
This is going to be fun to follow. Nice to see you finally get to this stage. Ah, the module…I’ve been in love with that from the time of your earlier videos. I’m anticipating an epic layout in the end. Good luck!
I'm glad I found a way to keep the module, too. I am going to give it a bit of a makeover, but I think it will work well in its new role. Thanks for watching!
I like what you said about building for yourself. Its a hobby,its supposed to be fun, build what you want. When I go to shows, and i get asked what era i model, i say 1804 to 2023. I don't really care about prototype accuracy , I'll pull an auto rack with anything i have on the layout at the time, be it a 4-4-0, or a -9, why? Because it's fun enjoy your hobby your way.
Excellent explanation of what you are trying to accomplish and really enjoyed all the aspects of the plan. I especially appreciate the point that you are building the layout for your personal enjoyment and there are really no rules when creating the layout you have designed. I am planning to build my own layout and this video has been very inspirational…
Great video and explanations. I fully agree with your goals. And as you say each one builds his layout to please himself first ! For me even on a small layout, I want switching, running around to railfan the layout, and scenery to make it nice to watch ! I will follow your progress for sure !
Great video looking forward to all the future building videos 👍 I totally agree with the continuous running mainline as it adds movement to the layout which visitors will like and leaves you free to use the yards to shunt wagons and make up new trains.
I had a much smaller version of that kind of setup on my last layout and really liked it. I like switching so I'm looking forward to having areas to do that while other trains just run around on the main. Thanks for watching!
One of the great things about a hobby like this one is that there's not really a wrong way to do it. If you're having fun, then you're doing it right. Thanks for watching!
I'm looking forward to getting started with the actual build. I'm hoping the work on the room won't take that long. If I can start the layout before the end of the year I'd be ecstatic. I'm glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
This is going to be a very nice layout when it's finished and I'm going to enjoy watching the progress. It's too bad there wasn't enough space for an Emigrant Gap scene or really anything between Colfax and Norden, but what's important is that all the scenes you did include are very authentic to the prototype and respect the area they represent... Knowing the quality of your work I fully expect some of these scenes to trick the viewer into thinking they accidentally stumbled across the highest quality SP railfanning video ever made. I like your idea of including a roundhouse as a separate module connected to the staging so you can focus on it specifically when you're running steam, and just ignore it when you aren't. I've experimented with a few similar designs myself, the troubles with loving both the 50s and the 90s equally as a railfan.
It was difficult trying to decide what to include and not include. I tried to favor areas that would add operational interest. The one thing that I could wish for would be a longer run between Truckee and Norden, and maybe also Truckee and Sparks, but I can’t see a way to do that without either sacrificing something else or making the plan really convoluted. No plan is perfect, but I think I will like the one I settled on. I think it ticks enough of the boxes to make me happy. I’m looking forward to the roundhouse scene, too. It might be premature, but I already got a Walthers turntable and roundhouse kit for that area. I’m glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
Great video, Dan! I'm looking forward to seeing more as your layout progresses. Being a fellow SP fan it will be nice that there is a high end private layout being built to watch and follow along. The 90's SP was interesting in that you get the late SP power and can integrate the D&RGW. With the official merger of CP and KCS, now CPKC, it makes me think about what might have been with an SPSF railroad. Being retired and in my 60's, I'm building my first layout. My track is in, except for bridges, and my wiring is 75% complete (750 feet of wire). My biggest regret is no staging, but other than that I needed to build something I can eventually complete so the track plan is a simple railfan layout with light switching. As a scale armor modeler and new model railroader, I'm looking forward to building bridges, structures and scenic-ing my 12x20 layout. Looking forward to your next update!
Being able to use Rio Grande power is one of the things that I like about the 90s. I think it adds a little variety. I'm glad you're enjoying your layout. I'm sure mine will end up with a ton of wire, too. Even my little Siren Creek layout has a lot of wire! I never got into armor modeling, but it sounds cool. I sometimes read articles about other types of modeling to get ideas. Some of the techniques with weathering and such could also be used on trains. Thanks for watching!
Thank You for your knowledge and experience. I 'm just starting out with a 4X8 layout on the floor to play with and try ideas. So far I have a very small simple switching yard and one customer.
Small layouts can be really fun. That's mostly what I've done before this. My last permanent HO layout was in a 10x10 spare bedroom. It's good to experiment and figure out what you like, and the when and if you can build a larger layout, you'll have that to guide you. Thanks for watching!
This is a very intriguing design and you can't go wrong doing Donner Pass. You mentioned implementing signaling which I am doing on my Proto-lance layout. Will you be going with newer model RR technology such as LCC or something similar such as I have to do your block detection, turnout control on your mainlines and of course the signaling since that all works together hand in hand or will you be controlling that with your DCC system? You also mentioned running steam on the Donner Pass, I am hoping you'll have some Cab-Forwards running since all the tunnels on Donner was the reason why they were built. Looking forward to the build! - Jason
I have two cab forwards that will find a home in the steam display area of the layout. I have a small collection of 50's era freight cars that I can use to stage photos with those and other steam engines. I think it might be fun to have an "anything goes" operating session every once in a while, where we toss the rules and just have fun running whatever on the layout. As for signaling, I am a relative newbie in that area. I have been doing some reading and I think I want to use the type of detectors that require resistors on the freight cars. That will be a big job to equip all the cars but I think it will be worth it. I'm not sure about the rest yet. From what I've been able to determine SP used "ABS" signaling over most of Donner Pass (similar to what most railroads call absolute-permissive-block) except for a stretch of CTC near Norden. I'd like to be able to mimic that, but I'm not sure yet about how best to accomplish that. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi that sounds amazing. I model the Cotton Belt Route (SP Subsidiary) in the late 50s and found out that their full route from St. Louis to Tyler, TX was CTC by the mid 50s. If you want some advice on implementation, let me know. I can tell you from experience, it's best to implement the trackwork while you're building than coming back to it later. I did the DCC route in the past but now doing the LCC route as it is on it's own seperate bus line.
Restraining yourself particularly by railroad(s) and era is extremely important. There is hundreds of thousands of models out there that it is near impossible to buy them all and you can easily go bankrupt quick. That is why I restrained myself to a few railroads I like and up to 1959. If it is 1960 (or later) and/or a railroad I am not fond of I put it back. It helps to not only discipline myself but save money too.
Absolutely. My own purchasing has been a lot more selective since I picked Donner as the theme for my layout. It also helps to save some of those hobby dollars for building the actual layout. Thanks for watching!
Nice one Daniel. I'm pretty familiar with all the modelled areas and you've done a good job capturing them. Funny how designing multiple plans over time gets you to something you could never draw on the first iteration. Good luck with this project. Looking forward to following your progress. Cheers, Coxy
In a future episode I'm going to go over the plan that didn't work, at least as far as I got on it, because I think the process of finding out what doesn't work and why is really important. Thanks for watching!
I just came across your channel with this video. Very thoughtful analysis of the needs for a layout and something others like myself could definitely work from. Maybe you could publish a brief outline of these points. As a midwesterner I don't get out to that way very often but I did visit Donner Pass once. I don't know why but I kind of wished for a rib joint up there. Maybe you could add a freelance one on your layout. :)
If it's any help, I did post the track plan on my website with a little explanation, too: danielcortopassi.com/donner-pass-layout-plan/ I don't get up to that area as much as I used to so I'm not sure what the restaurant scene in Truckee is like these days. I do plan to include a couple of places that my family used to go to in the 70s and early 80s, even though I'm pretty sure at least one of them was out of business before my 1990s era. We'll see if anyone notices. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi thank you sir. My reference to a rib joint on Donner Pass is kind of a bad joke based on pre-Transcontinental Railroad days. Sorry. Keep up the good work. Yours has been the most thoughtful video I've seen in a long time about layout design considerations.
I couldn’t help but notice you mentioning about photos as one aspect of your layout. If I can suggest you may want to incorporate a removable section that you can take outside with you to capture the natural sunlight to get the shots your after. I’ve study a few layout construction and for the removal parts i have read of people using extrusion foam 2inch wrapped in an oak facia for strength but super light.
I'm actually planning to do just that with my HO module that will become part of the Colfax scene. I'm okay with a removable section that's normally part of the layout, and only has to be removed for photo shoots (as opposed to something that has to be installed to run the layout). I want to mount the removable section on casters so that I can roll it outside for natural light photos. Thanks for the suggestion and for watching!
Good video with lots of info. I’m also doing a Roseville based layout in N scale. Much smaller than yours though. I have Roseville, Rocklin, Colfax, Gold Run and Truckee.
Looking forward to your build. Any thoughts on a DCC system? Possibly DCC-EX previously (DCC++)? If anyone could do it; you could. I am not a fan of all the proprietory comercial systems and would love to see a professional modeler buck the system using open source. Always enjoy your videos.
Thank you for the suggestion. I had not heard of DCC-EX so I checked out the website. I'll have to do some reading about it. I have been using Digitrax but I'm not necessarily committed to sticking with that. I am going to have to do some research into what else is out there. Even if I wanted to stick with Digitrax, I'll have to buy mostly new components. I used my old booster on our N scale Siren Creek project layout and the only other command station I have right now is a Digitrax Zephyr that's at least 10 years old - way too small for a big layout. Thanks for watching!
I can’t build an HO railroad yet but the plan I have is a great way to get around the conundrum of era If a person builds a layout that is based on the idea of tourist railroads/museums You then have a great way of doing a combination since you are able to keep up with current time without having to buy everything of current eras
That's a cool approach. Tourist railroads often have interesting equipment, too, like open air passenger cars made from old freight cars. They can run just about anything, too, which could be cool. Tourist lines sometimes start or stop near another railroad, so you can get a contrast, with a steam engine in close proximity to very modern diesels and have it be completely authentic! Thanks for watching!
I suggest to make the central peninsula a little bit higher than the other. It can help not so easy to see the fascia in the shoot when you taking the photos for the trains at peninsula.
One other thing if you're running trains in the1970-1975 era you can include UP SD-40's as well as UP cabooses. Once John Kennefick realized what Biaggini was doing UP switched a lot of its California bound traffic to the WP in Salt Lake City. Between Biaggini and Kennefick the Donner Pass line lost a lot of its thru traffic.
I remember seeing a lot of UP locomotives and cabooses on Donner Pass when I was a kid. I may use some modelers license to run more trains over the layout than would be strictly prototypical. I'm looking forward to building it. Thanks for watching!
I have always subscribed to the credo - "Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance" Sounds like you have gone to extensive lengths to prep for your layout.
I agree that having a plan is key. I would not want to start building something this large and try to just wing it. I'm sure there will be some modifications as I go, because it seems like that always happens when it comes time to start building with real materials, but it's still a good idea to have a plan. Thanks for watching!
I drew the plan with Adobe Illustrator because I've been using that program for years and I'm already familiar with it. It's not track planning software, but it does allow me to draw things to scale and create precise curves. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi very interesting, I would be interested to see a video explaining that more! I haven’t found a good track planning software to date, I’m curious to hear more about the Adobe Illustrator process. Thanks for the response Dan!
Yes. Passenger would mostly be Amtrak. The California Zephyr runs daily eastbound and westbound. There's also the Reno Fun Train, another Amtrak train that operated between the Bay Area and Reno. And I can always throw in some "excursions" with steam locomotives. I have plenty of freight cars, most of which fit my 1990s era. Thanks for watching!
Reversing sections, loops, wyes, or turntables, need to be electrically gapped to avoid shorts. For the reverse loop on my plan in Truckee, it will be gapped on both sides just past the switch. Since this will be a DCC layout, I will have an auto-reverser circuit to handle switching the polarity of the reversing section. Thanks for watching!
Great layout design advice. I suggest you have a look at the AMRA minimum radius standard as it will give you a good idea of the size of steam engines suitable fror your curves. amra.asn.au/about/standards/
Really neat plan, Dan. Thanks going to make an awesome model railroad when it's done.
Thanks, Mike! It took me a long time to get to this point with the plan. I'm really excited because I am finally back to working on the train room. I'm glad you like it so far!
Thanks for sharing your plans for the future layout and the process you used to get there. Looking forward to watching you enjoy your creation.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I am working hard to finish the room so I can get started on the layout. Thanks for watching!
Great video Dan. You now are very focused and have great presentation. Your best video yet!! Done with purpose and knowledge. Thanks
Picking Donner has definitely made me focus more on equipment that will actually be relevant to the layout. It's probably a good thing, as I'm less tempted to buy other stuff. I'm glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
Great analysis--glad to hear the train room is getting closer! Your logic is very interesting to listen to--can't wait to see it! Must mean we have another video of the consist build coming--you'll need that for the layout. Thanks
I'm glad you liked the video. And yes, I am still planning to finish the consist build. I think it would be awesome to re-create the train I photographed in the real town of Truckee in my HO version of Truckee on the layout. Thanks for watching!
In addition to the Siren Creek project (since I model N scale) I'm very excited to see this one happen. I can't wait to see your Southern Pacific/Cotton Belt consist with the Conrail borrowed power parked at Truckee to recreate the famous photos you took back in 1993.
I am excited to be able to do that very thing. I think re-creating the whole train would be great (though the grain cars will have to be stand ins since I didn't take pictures of any of those at the time). I think I have a workable cover design for the Siren Creek, too, so as soon as I can get that built I can work on it again (without having to worry about our kitties). Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi I was thinking about a possible storage / cat counter measure for the Siren Creek layout as well for when its not being used. It would be very easy to put together a simple lid that can un-latch. Which i'm sure you have a simple and elegant design for already. What I was going to suggest to keep weight down it could be made out of something like Coroplast which would be light weight, have some flex so as to not crack, and yet be strong enough to support the weight of a cat as long as the construction uses some gussets or additional lateral shear supports.
Awesome to see Dan, excited to see some progress
Me, too. After a long wait and being busy with other projects it seems like things are finally starting to happen. Thanks for watching!
Enjoyable summary of layout design and considerations - I can relate. The track plan is very well done and pretty ambitious. I am a big SP fan in northern California because I grew up in the Davis/Sacramento area in the 70's and 80's so your layout has a lot of appeal! I've gone through a similar process of "givens and druthers" and had a space of about 15x36 feet to model the D&RGW about ten years earlier than you - basically late caboose era (1977-1985). I settled upon 32" minimum curves and a single track mainline with 2 passing sidings, a yard and a 11 track staging yard. Max grade 1.8% or less. The space is narrower than yours and wasn't a nice open rectangle, so it took a bit of creativity to maximize the use and have the longest run possible. Passing sidings are 21 feet long and able to handle visually long trains. If you want to see my progress visit the AtlasRescueForum\HO Model Railroad Forum\Project Archive\Jims Layout Topic/Blog. Nice to see you have a track plan and getting into layout building! Having grown up in northern California, I used to travel up to the Sierra's to ski or go back packing or hiking and the SP Donner Pass has some great scenery to be modeled. Get ready to make a lot of pine trees!
Like you, my previous layout was a duck-under but I wanted to utilize the entire space for an around the walls layout in a 10x18' basement room in a townhome. This time around I had enough space to design a layout that is completely walk-in in the basement (we have basements in Virginia, a very rare thing in California! My layout design lets me follow a train from staging, the entire way to the main yard, where the track will enter a helix an go back to staging (so continuous run is possible). I've gone through much of your list of considerations and that was after digesting John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation, a book I highly recommend. I chose not to do a full double deck due to the complexity and time to build, which I struggle to find hobby time. A lot of people who have built a double deck afterward regret it. Mine is partially double decked to have a large staging yard in a lower level and a branch line on the lower level, which I laid most of the support structure and track before doing the main level. Wow, 4" separation between staging yard and main level! I thought I had limited clearance of 7.5 inches on my previous layout. This one I have about 10 inches and used threaded rods for most open possible. I too wanted to fit as much of my trains on the layout as possible, but the most tracks I could fit are 11 tracks double ended tracks but there is a single ended yard squeeze more trains in as well. The double ended staging tracks range from 17' to 24' in length.
That's a lot of great information about your layouts. It sounds like you came to some of the same conclusions I did from your experience. I'm hoping I don't regret the double deck idea. I didn't feel like I could really get what I wanted in my space without it. I was originally going to just have staging on the lower deck, but I realized that some of the space could be put to better use. Also, since I decided to have the flyover at Eder, I also need to have a second flyover, which is why I included the one at Applegate. Otherwise I'd have a big figure 8 instead of double track. I still consider the upper deck to be the main attraction. You're right that a lot of trees will be involved. One reason I wanted to model the line into Nevada is that there are a lot fewer trees on that side! Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi Hopefully double decking will work out for you. It certainly give you a lot more layout to run longer trains and represent more of the Donner Pass! But it is more complex to build. My semi double deck is my first effort at a larger layout so I didn't want mine to get too complex and with limited hobby time I'm finding it difficult to get more progress. Good point about less trees into Boca and Nevada. One of the things I find appealing about modeling Grande Junction Colorado and into eastern Utah also is the lack of trees, and I find Ruby Canyon to be a really pretty feature too, and desert scenery has it's own appeal. It won't keep me from running some SP trains. I look forward to your progress on your Donner Pass! Maybe you can squeeze in some caboose era trains for us older fans! LOL
Wow, that’s such a fantastic layout plan Dan. Especially including all the interesting details and scenic spots found particularly at Norden with the covered turntable, I can’t wait to hear more about what you have planned for your layout!
I'm glad you like the plan. I thought Norden was too interesting not to include. I'm using some modelers license to make the turntable functional. My understanding is that there was some kind of mishap in the 80s and the turntable bridge was fixed in place after that. I will probably have to build it as a cutaway model, otherwise there would be no way to see what's going on in there. Thanks for watching!
Great vid, very informative.
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for watching!
If anyone is capable of building something authentic enough to fool me it's you. Can't wait to see it.
Thanks so much! I'm looking forward to it too.
Real nice Dan Nichole
We're glad you like the plan. Thanks for watching!
Excellent video. I decided to choose the early 90's era as well. However, I also wanted to model the Kansas City area of my youth. So I decided to ignore the mergers and pretend the MKT, Frisco and MoPac continued into the 90's. Adding in the Santa Fe gave me everything I wanted. It still allows prototypical running and I get to paint Dash-8's, 9's and SD-70's in MKT, Frisco and MoPac schemes. What a great hobby! Looking forward to your next video.
That sounds like a great concept. The 90s were an interesting time in railroading. Thanks for watching!
Great video! Hope you enjoy with this project 👍
I'm definitely looking forward to it. I'm glad you like the video. Thanks for watching!
Daniel,
I want to thank you for your excellent videos. Lately I've been hooked on all your product reviews. This one, though, about layout planning is really quite well presented and I will watch it over and over to take it all in and incorporate it into my planning. This is really something to look forward to. Best I've seen yet. Thanks and be well. It's really great how you and your wife work so well together as a team and co-operate in planning to not intrude on each others spaces.
Thanks so much for the kind words. I will be doing a Part 2 of this video, where I'm going to go into more detail about why I made certain choices, as well as showing a plan that didn't work and talking about why. There are more reviews coming too. I'm glad you like the videos on the channel. Thanks for watching!
Great video. I look forward to seeing the finished layout
Me, too. I still have some work to do on the room before I can start on the layout itself, but it was a huge milestone for me to create a plan. Thanks for watching!
I wish you well in your layout journey. It appears you have the layout well thought out. I look forward to your future progress!
Thanks so much! There will be more videos on this layout for sure.
This is going to be fun to follow. Nice to see you finally get to this stage. Ah, the module…I’ve been in love with that from the time of your earlier videos. I’m anticipating an epic layout in the end. Good luck!
I'm glad I found a way to keep the module, too. I am going to give it a bit of a makeover, but I think it will work well in its new role. Thanks for watching!
I like what you said about building for yourself. Its a hobby,its supposed to be fun, build what you want. When I go to shows, and i get asked what era i model, i say 1804 to 2023. I don't really care about prototype accuracy , I'll pull an auto rack with anything i have on the layout at the time, be it a 4-4-0, or a -9, why? Because it's fun enjoy your hobby your way.
Absolutely. If you're having fun, you're doing it right. Thanks for watching!
Excellent explanation of what you are trying to accomplish and really enjoyed all the aspects of the plan. I especially appreciate the point that you are building the layout for your personal enjoyment and there are really no rules when creating the layout you have designed. I am planning to build my own layout and this video has been very inspirational…
I'm glad you liked the video. And for sure, if we're building layouts for ourselves, then we need to make ourselves happy. Thanks for watching!
Great video and explanations. I fully agree with your goals. And as you say each one builds his layout to please himself first ! For me even on a small layout, I want switching, running around to railfan the layout, and scenery to make it nice to watch ! I will follow your progress for sure !
Yes, fun is the number one priority. As long as you're having fun, you're doing it right. Thanks for watching!
Great video looking forward to all the future building videos 👍 I totally agree with the continuous running mainline as it adds movement to the layout which visitors will like and leaves you free to use the yards to shunt wagons and make up new trains.
I had a much smaller version of that kind of setup on my last layout and really liked it. I like switching so I'm looking forward to having areas to do that while other trains just run around on the main. Thanks for watching!
I'm planning a 13 by 21 n scale layout, your video was great and gives me lots to think about. Thanks for the inspiration.
That sounds really cool. That's a very nice size in N scale. I'm glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
Really good video !!! I like your ideas and as you said it is your layout so you can do what you want !!!
I'm glad you liked it. And yes, we should build our layouts to please ourselves. It's a hobby after all, and it should be fun! Thanks for watching!
Totally agree with the 'it's your layout' comment. Looking forward to seeing how you progress with this layout. Ben.
One of the great things about a hobby like this one is that there's not really a wrong way to do it. If you're having fun, then you're doing it right. Thanks for watching!
Great video! Looking forward to the series. 👍🏻
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for watching!
Very nice to see Daniel. I am very curious to see how you proceed.
I'm looking forward to getting started with the actual build. I'm hoping the work on the room won't take that long. If I can start the layout before the end of the year I'd be ecstatic. I'm glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
This is going to be a very nice layout when it's finished and I'm going to enjoy watching the progress.
It's too bad there wasn't enough space for an Emigrant Gap scene or really anything between Colfax and Norden, but what's important is that all the scenes you did include are very authentic to the prototype and respect the area they represent... Knowing the quality of your work I fully expect some of these scenes to trick the viewer into thinking they accidentally stumbled across the highest quality SP railfanning video ever made.
I like your idea of including a roundhouse as a separate module connected to the staging so you can focus on it specifically when you're running steam, and just ignore it when you aren't.
I've experimented with a few similar designs myself, the troubles with loving both the 50s and the 90s equally as a railfan.
It was difficult trying to decide what to include and not include. I tried to favor areas that would add operational interest. The one thing that I could wish for would be a longer run between Truckee and Norden, and maybe also Truckee and Sparks, but I can’t see a way to do that without either sacrificing something else or making the plan really convoluted. No plan is perfect, but I think I will like the one I settled on. I think it ticks enough of the boxes to make me happy. I’m looking forward to the roundhouse scene, too. It might be premature, but I already got a Walthers turntable and roundhouse kit for that area. I’m glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching!
I like all of what you said Dan well thought out
Thanks so much!
Great video, Dan! I'm looking forward to seeing more as your layout progresses. Being a fellow SP fan it will be nice that there is a high end private layout being built to watch and follow along. The 90's SP was interesting in that you get the late SP power and can integrate the D&RGW. With the official merger of CP and KCS, now CPKC, it makes me think about what might have been with an SPSF railroad.
Being retired and in my 60's, I'm building my first layout. My track is in, except for bridges, and my wiring is 75% complete (750 feet of wire). My biggest regret is no staging, but other than that I needed to build something I can eventually complete so the track plan is a simple railfan layout with light switching. As a scale armor modeler and new model railroader, I'm looking forward to building bridges, structures and scenic-ing my 12x20 layout. Looking forward to your next update!
Being able to use Rio Grande power is one of the things that I like about the 90s. I think it adds a little variety. I'm glad you're enjoying your layout. I'm sure mine will end up with a ton of wire, too. Even my little Siren Creek layout has a lot of wire! I never got into armor modeling, but it sounds cool. I sometimes read articles about other types of modeling to get ideas. Some of the techniques with weathering and such could also be used on trains. Thanks for watching!
Thank You for your knowledge and experience. I 'm just starting out with a 4X8 layout on the floor to play with and try ideas. So far I have a very small simple switching yard and one customer.
Small layouts can be really fun. That's mostly what I've done before this. My last permanent HO layout was in a 10x10 spare bedroom. It's good to experiment and figure out what you like, and the when and if you can build a larger layout, you'll have that to guide you. Thanks for watching!
This is a very intriguing design and you can't go wrong doing Donner Pass. You mentioned implementing signaling which I am doing on my Proto-lance layout. Will you be going with newer model RR technology such as LCC or something similar such as I have to do your block detection, turnout control on your mainlines and of course the signaling since that all works together hand in hand or will you be controlling that with your DCC system? You also mentioned running steam on the Donner Pass, I am hoping you'll have some Cab-Forwards running since all the tunnels on Donner was the reason why they were built. Looking forward to the build! - Jason
I have two cab forwards that will find a home in the steam display area of the layout. I have a small collection of 50's era freight cars that I can use to stage photos with those and other steam engines. I think it might be fun to have an "anything goes" operating session every once in a while, where we toss the rules and just have fun running whatever on the layout. As for signaling, I am a relative newbie in that area. I have been doing some reading and I think I want to use the type of detectors that require resistors on the freight cars. That will be a big job to equip all the cars but I think it will be worth it. I'm not sure about the rest yet. From what I've been able to determine SP used "ABS" signaling over most of Donner Pass (similar to what most railroads call absolute-permissive-block) except for a stretch of CTC near Norden. I'd like to be able to mimic that, but I'm not sure yet about how best to accomplish that. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi that sounds amazing. I model the Cotton Belt Route (SP Subsidiary) in the late 50s and found out that their full route from St. Louis to Tyler, TX was CTC by the mid 50s. If you want some advice on implementation, let me know. I can tell you from experience, it's best to implement the trackwork while you're building than coming back to it later. I did the DCC route in the past but now doing the LCC route as it is on it's own seperate bus line.
Restraining yourself particularly by railroad(s) and era is extremely important. There is hundreds of thousands of models out there that it is near impossible to buy them all and you can easily go bankrupt quick. That is why I restrained myself to a few railroads I like and up to 1959. If it is 1960 (or later) and/or a railroad I am not fond of I put it back. It helps to not only discipline myself but save money too.
Absolutely. My own purchasing has been a lot more selective since I picked Donner as the theme for my layout. It also helps to save some of those hobby dollars for building the actual layout. Thanks for watching!
Nice one Daniel. I'm pretty familiar with all the modelled areas and you've done a good job capturing them. Funny how designing multiple plans over time gets you to something you could never draw on the first iteration. Good luck with this project. Looking forward to following your progress. Cheers, Coxy
In a future episode I'm going to go over the plan that didn't work, at least as far as I got on it, because I think the process of finding out what doesn't work and why is really important. Thanks for watching!
I just came across your channel with this video. Very thoughtful analysis of the needs for a layout and something others like myself could definitely work from. Maybe you could publish a brief outline of these points.
As a midwesterner I don't get out to that way very often but I did visit Donner Pass once. I don't know why but I kind of wished for a rib joint up there. Maybe you could add a freelance one on your layout. :)
If it's any help, I did post the track plan on my website with a little explanation, too:
danielcortopassi.com/donner-pass-layout-plan/
I don't get up to that area as much as I used to so I'm not sure what the restaurant scene in Truckee is like these days. I do plan to include a couple of places that my family used to go to in the 70s and early 80s, even though I'm pretty sure at least one of them was out of business before my 1990s era. We'll see if anyone notices. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi thank you sir. My reference to a rib joint on Donner Pass is kind of a bad joke based on pre-Transcontinental Railroad days. Sorry. Keep up the good work. Yours has been the most thoughtful video I've seen in a long time about layout design considerations.
Congratulations Dan this layout look awesome I actually doing my future layout as well mind set my area modern day I love one came up with
I'm glad you like the layout plan. Good luck with your layout. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi thanks Dan and Nicole
I couldn’t help but notice you mentioning about photos as one aspect of your layout.
If I can suggest you may want to incorporate a removable section that you can take outside with you to capture the natural sunlight to get the shots your after.
I’ve study a few layout construction and for the removal parts i have read of people using extrusion foam 2inch wrapped in an oak facia for strength but super light.
I'm actually planning to do just that with my HO module that will become part of the Colfax scene. I'm okay with a removable section that's normally part of the layout, and only has to be removed for photo shoots (as opposed to something that has to be installed to run the layout). I want to mount the removable section on casters so that I can roll it outside for natural light photos. Thanks for the suggestion and for watching!
Good video with lots of info. I’m also doing a Roseville based layout in N scale. Much smaller than yours though. I have Roseville, Rocklin, Colfax, Gold Run and Truckee.
That sounds really cool, especially in N. I've always loved Donner Pass, and it makes a great basis for a train layout. Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to your build. Any thoughts on a DCC system? Possibly DCC-EX previously (DCC++)? If anyone could do it; you could. I am not a fan of all the proprietory comercial systems and would love to see a professional modeler buck the system using open source. Always enjoy your videos.
Thank you for the suggestion. I had not heard of DCC-EX so I checked out the website. I'll have to do some reading about it. I have been using Digitrax but I'm not necessarily committed to sticking with that. I am going to have to do some research into what else is out there. Even if I wanted to stick with Digitrax, I'll have to buy mostly new components. I used my old booster on our N scale Siren Creek project layout and the only other command station I have right now is a Digitrax Zephyr that's at least 10 years old - way too small for a big layout. Thanks for watching!
I can’t build an HO railroad yet but the plan I have is a great way to get around the conundrum of era
If a person builds a layout that is based on the idea of tourist railroads/museums
You then have a great way of doing a combination since you are able to keep up with current time without having to buy everything of current eras
That's a cool approach. Tourist railroads often have interesting equipment, too, like open air passenger cars made from old freight cars. They can run just about anything, too, which could be cool. Tourist lines sometimes start or stop near another railroad, so you can get a contrast, with a steam engine in close proximity to very modern diesels and have it be completely authentic! Thanks for watching!
Excelent
Thanks so much!
I suggest to make the central peninsula a little bit higher than the other. It can help not so easy to see the fascia in the shoot when you taking the photos for the trains at peninsula.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the suggestion!
Daniel The model train builder awesome video 👍
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for watching!
Your welcome 🙏
One other thing if you're running trains in the1970-1975 era you can include UP SD-40's as well as UP cabooses. Once John Kennefick realized what Biaggini was doing UP switched a lot of its California bound traffic to the WP in Salt Lake City.
Between Biaggini and Kennefick the Donner Pass line lost a lot of its thru traffic.
I remember seeing a lot of UP locomotives and cabooses on Donner Pass when I was a kid. I may use some modelers license to run more trains over the layout than would be strictly prototypical. I'm looking forward to building it. Thanks for watching!
I have always subscribed to the credo - "Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance" Sounds like you have gone to extensive lengths to prep for your layout.
I agree that having a plan is key. I would not want to start building something this large and try to just wing it. I'm sure there will be some modifications as I go, because it seems like that always happens when it comes time to start building with real materials, but it's still a good idea to have a plan. Thanks for watching!
Hey Dan, what program did you use to design the layout?
I drew the plan with Adobe Illustrator because I've been using that program for years and I'm already familiar with it. It's not track planning software, but it does allow me to draw things to scale and create precise curves. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi very interesting, I would be interested to see a video explaining that more! I haven’t found a good track planning software to date, I’m curious to hear more about the Adobe Illustrator process. Thanks for the response Dan!
You will have freight and passenger trains that were in that era??
Yes. Passenger would mostly be Amtrak. The California Zephyr runs daily eastbound and westbound. There's also the Reno Fun Train, another Amtrak train that operated between the Bay Area and Reno. And I can always throw in some "excursions" with steam locomotives. I have plenty of freight cars, most of which fit my 1990s era. Thanks for watching!
Howd you have a loop track without shorting the layout
Reversing sections, loops, wyes, or turntables, need to be electrically gapped to avoid shorts. For the reverse loop on my plan in Truckee, it will be gapped on both sides just past the switch. Since this will be a DCC layout, I will have an auto-reverser circuit to handle switching the polarity of the reversing section. Thanks for watching!
Great layout design advice. I suggest you have a look at the AMRA minimum radius standard as it will give you a good idea of the size of steam engines suitable fror your curves. amra.asn.au/about/standards/
Thanks for the info, I'll have to check that out!
1990s pre mega merger Era I refer to as the "Anschutz Era".
One of the reasons I like that era is that I can mix Rio Grande equipment with the SP stuff. I love the variety of equipment. Thanks for watching!