The 4000 ada is much better for productivity. rtx 2000 ada is probably closer to 4060 raw compute power (though its not a gaming card either so 4060 will probably beat it in games). It just came out 2 months ago. Its still double its price, but it has 3 benefits: half the power draw, double vram for productivity tasks with ecc, and nerdware is coming out with a modded cooler for it and the 4000 ada to make them single slot. This can't be done with the 4060 because of the cooling for its power draw and its stacked 2 slot i/o, making the 2000 and 4000 ada the only performant options for certain sff 1 slot cases
Precisely. Even if it's pretty obvious to us enthusiasts, somebody actually building a tiny workstation might not be so clued in, and now this information directly comparing them exists.
@@DigitalJedi appreciated effort indeed, he constructed this with usefulness in mind I relate to those wanting to know how the latest professional nvidia sff performs against mainstream current gen nvidia sff
As a SFF only builder who appreciates low wattage draw and reduced heat generation, thank you very much for the comparison. As a non gamer, I would appreciate some photo processing speed comparisons such as RAW to JPEG time for 50 to 100 images.
Curious - do you need a SFF GPU? Personally, I don't... I'd like to need one, in the sense that the machine I'll be picking up probably an A2000 for soon isn't SFF and the reason is most of all price, not only, but mostly. I have a Dell T5810 with a 14core, 96Gb ram currently, 5xGbe NIC's, a quad M.2 SSD card, and a Quadro P4000.
@@noth606 What an odd question - nobody *needs* a SFF gaming GPU. I chose to build a 4 litre low power gaming rig and the 4060 LP is clearly the best choice for that use case.
@@noth606 I absolutely LOVE my 2 Dell T5810s. I found one on the side of the road tossed out for the garbage man and took it home and decontaminated it and got it working. I liked it so much that I purchased 2nd one turn key ready to go off of ebay under $200 dolla. The one I found has a E5 1650-V4. Of course the one I purchased can only do V3 Xeons but I enjoy using both daily. My only complaint is that they cannot do nvidia SLI.
@@noth606 I have a SFF case, which i got for free, and i had this idea to attach one of the several laptop screens i have. So i built this SFF pc, with an i5 12400f, the 4060lp and i attached a 15.6 laptop screen which powers from the computer psu and i even added a handle to the case. So is a very neat sff portable all in one computer i can take with me to a lanparty with my friends... I can upgrade it as is just a regular pc.... I can mod it even further if i feel like (i'd like to integrate speakers) Also the card is so good, i currently use that pc to power my racing sim. It runs forza horizon 5, the crew 2 and other racing games at 4k very good!
The 4000 was almost perfect! ✅ Lots of memory ✅ Bus powered ✅ ECC memory ✅ Small form factor ❌vGPU support for Prodmox Jeff - please tell me you have a fix for the last one. 😅
Not quite. Vgpu is all about splitting the gpu into multiple virtual gpus (that can then be passed through). Passthrough otherwise works on basically everything these days (barring weird bugs)
As an added note vGPU has been typically available on quadro 5000 and 6000 or higher when there was a 8000. The thing is to inlock vGPU is also requires a software license from Nvidia.
Never understood why Nvidia don't have a much wider lineup of SFF/LP cards. For example the AD103 RTX 4090 Mobile/RTX 5000 ADA with 120w TDP would be a fine choice and could surely be adequately cooled with a very similar heatsink to this 4060.
Greed is the answer. Because people would then put cheap GeForce gaming GPUs in servers and workstations, for AI and compute. But for these applications Nvidia wants to sell 5x as expensive Quadro GPUs, even though they have identical silicon under the hood and perform no better. So they force AIBs to only sell higher-end GeForce cards with hilariously oversized 4-slot coolers, such that they don't physically fit in servers/workstations.
@@ProjectPhysX what they do is capitalism: SFF/LP cards NEED low power consuption, make as little heat as possible AND be stable for business. That means NVIDIA can't use the bad~decent portion of the chips they put on gaming cards, they gotta go with the good stuff. That makes LP cards actually way more premium than the gaming GPUs since they're built to take a beating while also being super restricted in power usage.
demand, there just isn't demand for it as most people have matx or atx builds which can house a fullsize gpu meaning you don't need to go out of your way to develop a product which becomes a nightmare as you go up the product sack, so there is no real reason to make a few let alone a full product sack
For gaming, your conclusion would be accurate. For AI, the 8 GB of VRAM on the 4060 might be able to load some basic models, but you can either do text-based AI or AI generated pictures, but not both, simultaneously (whereas with the RTX 4000 Ada SFF, you'd be able to run both basic models, simultaneously).
This might be Mandela effect , but i remember sli was a passthough externaly on the rear of the case, but weren't the cards also powered by external power adapters? (wall worts) ?
@@fuzzymuppet1990 The passthrough was for the 3dfx Voodoo 1 & 2. It was needed because the 3DFX Voodoo 1&2 did not have 2D capabilities only 3D so you would have to pair it with a 2D card. :) the 3DFX Voodoo 2 used a internal ribbit cable for SLI and some Voodoo 1 cards did the same.
Great video Jeff. Any chance you'd be willing to do a comparison of the 2000, 4000, 4060 LP, and maybe any other LP/SFF cards you can get your hands on, in regards to their performance vs cost for things like video transcoding, CAD, 3D rendering? I'm working on building a small server on a budget for hosting Plex/Jellyfin for a handful of people (up to maybe 5 or 6 simultaneous streams, depending on cost) and I'm not sure yet which way I should go in regards to transcoding. Most of my content is stored in 4k and is streamed to a range of devices from tablets to TVs.
While on its face this comparison may seem crazy, it’s the exact comparison we all would have done in our heads. Thanks for making the magic happen, as always!
I’ve had the 4060LP in a HP Z2 SFF since may and it’s a pretty rock solid card for what it is. My use case for needing the SFF as this is the computer in my living room media center. The case cannot vent the heat though, and I had to cut a slot above the GPU in the panel and mount a 3x80mm vent grill which allows enough air circulation to keep it happy
Thank you for this comparison! The other advantage of the 4000 ADA SFF is you don't need the PCIE cable so this will be easier to install into tiny SFF cases.
Not just that: the 4060 will blow its 120W into the case. The quadro will blow its 70W+eventual hot air outside of the case. For a super tiny pc, that's a big difference. The reason why I'm looking for a A2000 (budget doesn't allow more)
there is a intel sff form factor for its arc series, not saying it will be close but be interesting to see its numbers, especially with av1 encoding and decoding.
Yeah, I mentioned the A380. It struggles to keep up with even the RX 6400 in gaming. Definitely a decent option if you're looking for video encode/decode though.
The ADA card is a godsend for AI. You would be a silly goose to buy it for anything else. I would love to see AI benchmarks in your reviews since my personal homelab depends on AI services more and more. I bet I am not the only viewer who feels this way.
One question for you. Did you use the gaming setting on the RTX 4000 ada. NVidia builds profiles in the RTX XXXX Ada that allow it to run in gaming mode. I like how you mentioned that the RTX 4000 Ada is not a gaming card. Also the "Quadro" offers ISV certifications that are important for productivity and engineering applications. I think you should explain that a lot of the cost difference is in the ECC memory used in the "Quadro". Good overall review for gaming.
Something you used to be able to do with old Quadro cards was disabling ECC for the memory on the card. Theoretically this was supposedly improving the memory performance. Don't know if the RTX 4000 use ECC for the memory or if it can be disabled. But if it does use ECC and it can be disabled then it might be interesting to see if it really changes performance.
16:47 Idk, but my *impression* from watching the video was that the 4000 had a trend of miserable 1% / 0.1% lows in the games where it lost out in terms of overall experience in a more pronounced way than the 4060 did when it lost out? Either way, if you're getting an SFF card for gaming, the 4060 appears to be the obvious choice given the price difference and overall similar performance.
9:10 I look at consistency, the 4060 gaming card is constant in trying to keep up with the FPS (its designed for gaming), if i had the 4000 i would notice 30 fps, most players I've talked to prefer 60fps and above, its noticeable when it gets bellow that
Hi there Jeff! It would be also interesting to see the difference between these two cards in a PCIe 3.0 system, as I think it is the one most people use as daily driver (if I am not mistaken). Another interesting thing to see is the gap between these cards and the RTX A2000 (both the 6 and 12 GB VRAM versions) for people that play games and do some kind of video editing.
The 4000 SFF would be the uncontested leader. The 4060 only has 4.0 x8 lanes where the 4000 has 4.0 x16. Downgrade the lanes by a generation, and that halved bandwidth from the GPU will start to pose performance penalties.
You should review the new RTX 2000 ada alongside these. It just released in february and and you'd be the first to do a legitimate review of it as far as I can tell, but its half the price of the 4000 ada while still boasting a massive 16gb of vram.
it's about double the price of the 4060 LP though and offers slightly worse gaming performance than the 4060. That 16GB of VRAM is the only thing that separates it from the 4060
4:16 Another thing that differentiates the 4000 Ada from the 4060 is the former has 2 hardware encoders and decoders instead of just 1. That even beats the 4090, which has 2 encoders but only 1 decoder. Though I think a more fair comparison would be the 4060 against the 2000 Ada instead, since it has closer specs and 16 GB of VRAM instead of 20.
I wonder if these would fit with slim coolers and SFF brackets in a Minisforum MS01. That would be such a killer combo especially for the 20GB card since it has no power connectors
I have a soft spot for a decently performing graphics card that doesn't require external power. Really wish we would get more updated options as such. I keep an old GTX 1650 laying around that I use for testing purposes on new system builds and occasionally playing with a low power system for fun.
What this tells me is that Nvidia could do a better low power GPU that doesn't need the extra power plug. Back when the 1050 came out. That was something I liked about it. It wasn't an anemic GPU tho it could be plugged into those OEM refurb you find for cheap. And have a decent budget gaming PC. But as they've shift around their chips on the naming and prices bracket. Good low end or low power GPU banished. I really like that RTX 4000 and what it can do. As of now, the only reason why I still have nvidia GPU is because of their power advantages. And seeing their Quadro been this efficient I'd like one. But at that price. I currently have an RTX 3060 ti. undervolt. My goal is to get the most I can under 200W. Preferably 150-175 avg. Now I believe is one of the 4070 variants when undervolted.
I'm certainly intrigued by the performance of other small GPUs, especially stuff that might only fit within a *single* expansion slot, though I doubt many others woould
14:46 as impressive as these System Power figures are, I wonder how much more energy saving SFF PC a 7800x3d paired with 16GB of ddr5 4800/5200/5600 jedec 1.1V would be... 13900 whenn not maxed out can save a lot if not 100% load but nowhere near AM5 ecomodes at same erfromance FPS output...or it will make for a good comaprison video?
In researching the spec of these two cards, I found that the 4060 card is PCIE 4.0 * 8, whereas the ADA card is PCIE 4.0 * 16. Graphics cards are not an area of my expertise, so I would appreciate your take on the type of applications that would be effected by the difference in the width of the PCIE connection.
Great video. is it possible to benchmark the fastest SFF gpu for AI inference tasks on LLM and SDXL. Let’s put the RTX4060lp vs RTX A2000-12GB vs RTX 4000 on the track. Really interested to see which gpu provides the $/perf value.
I have been genuinely interested in this graphics card as I have several 2u servers and plan to add one using the Silverstone 2u chasis for a cloud gaming machine and test out dedulication as I reinstall games fairly often and have friends over fairly often.
This is insane! I honestly thought the ADA 4000 would roll the 4060lp up and smoke it but this? I sincerely never thought it would compare let alone trade blows. If I had the money for the ADA 4k at launch and a 7800x3d I would've built an insane 4l ITX rig with it and if I knew the 4060 was this similar I'd have the worst buyers remorse of my life. Probably THE most interesting GPU comparison I've ever seen. Watt for watt even though the idea of running the 70 watt ADA 4k for longer with my camper's battery is cool I'll keep my 3060 for now. Super interesting video!
To be fair, the A4000 isn't a gaming gpu. If you take a quadro and a geforce, set them both to exactly the same spec, you'll have the geforce winning every game test like this one by a landslide. Generally speaking, a quadro isn't worth the attention unless you need the driver, the extra vram and so on for some specific reason.
So. how do these perform head to head running something like ollama ? As you noted the 4000 is targeted at AI workloads etc. Also having them compared for total power consumed for task might be interesting given the 4000s lower power needs.
I wonder if the game ready drivers were installed on the 4000 ADA or not? It officially only has studio drivers but you can still download/install the same game ready drivers from the 4060. That might fix the bad 0.1% lows. I definitely noticed an uplift when installing them on my A2000.
Once again, I really wish you had included some AI or workstation-pertinent benchmarks given how relevant those are becoming these days. I have to assume that the massive increase in CUDA cores would make a big difference for inference/GPU-accelerated processing or video encoding. There are very few, if any, channels that do these kinds of benchmarks, so you'd be cutting edge if you at least mentioned it at all.
@@mar2ck_ Depends on the task, a lot of inference models would comfortably fit into 8GBs, although running a local high-parameter LLM would be out of the question. But that does get into my biggest gripe with this card; why no 16GB model? It would not only be a workstation powerhouse, but future-proofed for 1080p gaming for the rest of the decade (which is great since these SFF cards are far and few between).
Thanks mate, this is interesting. 4060 LP owner, but have always wondered how it would stack up vs the 4000 Ada. Thought the latter would be well ahead, tbh!
I'm kind of wondering how the Ada 4000 does for Plex transcoding. I obviously know price to performance makes no sense, but I just want to know if it's better than quick sync on an Intel 13700k.
Im a PC enthusiast but am new to the AI workloads, they would benefit from the VRAM increase of the quadro, wouldnt they, or would they have a similar showing? From what ive seen, AI workloads want more RAM
I bought one of these in September for a super skinny build. I think i paired it with a 7600x. Ran super hot until i flipped the CPU fan and used it as an exhaust. Very nice card for the size!
I would like to have a comparison in terms of 3D Archviz and Stable Diffusion of these two cards, especially in terms of 3dsmax UI speed and V-Ray performance and generation / scaling to 4k using Stable Diffusion🤔
20GB of VRAM in the 4000 and basically 2x as many cuda cores. It’ll be interesting to see a direct comparison but I’m gonna guess that the 4000 trounces the 4060 in AI applications for those reasons alone.
Ordered the rtx 4000 sff just recently for a fortune of 1500 EUR. I need a lot of VRAM for AI in my 2 HE server, so I guess I did the right choice. Just wish there were more cards with a lot of VRAM in SFF, that don't cost like flagship gaming gpu (while only having 1/3 of flagship gpu performance)
Nice review but I think only testing gaming on RTX 4000 is a bit unfair since it's not build for this main objective in mind, I would love to see more testing, like LLM's/AI benchmark.
Trying to add a 6/8 pin power connector by some way may make the 4000 sff able to perform better, but that mod should be a pain in the ass to make, but just imagine the performance...
There is a mod for it that makes it so it performs like a slightly OC 3070ti. It’s on Reddit and I plan to get that mod done to my card and their cooper cooler mod. But the cooler mod isn’t finalized yet and I want both done in one go.
My supermicro server case doesn't have extra pcie power cables. basically two eps for the motherboard and a bunch of molex for the backplane. The 4000 SFF allows some decent passthrough gaming VM action.
I wonder which games you can still play in 4K at 60 fps or more with these low-profile cards. It would be cool to build an itx pc and connect it to a 4K tv in the living room and play games with an xbox controller.
The sff A4000 is gonna be an amazing choice in the future on the used market once a lot of them drop from the workstations just as it happened with the low profile A2000. 20GB of VRAM and 70W TDP will surely make some sff pc or one with a weak PSU a small gaming beast.
Tasty video 👍 If 4060 draws little or no power from PCIe slot (dunno?), then maybe that's a tiny win rel. to Quadro, saving a smidge on wear and tear of mobo's power components. Down the road, similar replacement mobo probably harder (and costlier) to source than a PSU. Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.
@CraftComputing Jeff, while this suggestion may seem like a waste of time, a run-down comparison of the 4060SFF and the 3050SFF would show interesting results. Also remember, that some people, myself included, consider 720p/768p perfectly acceptable and valid gaming resolutions. Perhaps show us a few benchmarks for that res bracket. EDIT: forgot to mention, good show on this one! This video was interesting and your points about cost vs performance vs power usage are spot on!
@@Rustyer266 Not true. Games older than 2019? Sure, you might get away with a few settings on max at 1080p, but 720p/768p is a given for those systems that can't really get high end performance 1080p. I'm a custom system builder with 35+ years experience, I know my craft..
What about running some benchmarks that are compute oriented and would also benefit from more memory? The tradeoff of core count vs frequency works quite nicely at these GPUs for gaming, and you can see that games are trying really hard to fit in 8GB to please the average kids.
Love this topic as I'm in the market for a SFF GPU to pair with a cheap old Dell office PC secondhand for purposes of building an Emulation box that can handle up to PS3 and Xbox 360. This 4060 LP could be just what I need.
Just built a small formfactor 13400F system that would be killer with this class of card. From an efficiency stand point AND from a "tinkerer" / Homelab enthusiast standpoint, I am VERY curious as to how that ada card would fair in GPU-p / vGPU scenario.
1 Liter PC enjoyer here, the point here is that there's simply no auxiliary power input to be found in chassis so the GPU must be powered by the PICE slot alone. I have a ThinkStation P3 Tiny from Lenovo and it can take LP single-slot PCIE cards. I am currently pairing it with an A2000 with a modified one-slot cooler. The man making the single slot cooler for A2000 is also doing so for Tesla P4/T4, A4000 Ada SFF, and 4060LP(by removing 1 HDMI port). If you could limit the power budget of the 4060LP to 75W and compare the performance, I think the result would be interesting.
I've been saying since the launch of the 4060 and 4060 ti that eventually nVidia would have to make a low profile version if they ever wanted to sell through their stock of these chips at MSRP or slightly higher pricing (since they don't seem to want to drop prices)... I'm only wondering what took so long for an OEM to take advantage of the efficiency of these chips to help distinguish themselves in the market? Now all we need is for N3rdware to come out with a single slot cooler designed for this card! Boy, I'd love to see a 4060 ti 16GB version of this card, but I doubt nVidia will allow that to happen...
TL;DW - do you have infinite money? No? Buy the 4060 and never look back
Forget infinite money, it's barely faster at all.
The 4000 ada is much better for productivity. rtx 2000 ada is probably closer to 4060 raw compute power (though its not a gaming card either so 4060 will probably beat it in games). It just came out 2 months ago. Its still double its price, but it has 3 benefits: half the power draw, double vram for productivity tasks with ecc, and nerdware is coming out with a modded cooler for it and the 4000 ada to make them single slot. This can't be done with the 4060 because of the cooling for its power draw and its stacked 2 slot i/o, making the 2000 and 4000 ada the only performant options for certain sff 1 slot cases
@@mtrebtreboschi5722was VERY disappointed to see it be 2slot only. so close.. so close
I'd argue both are a bad deal.
id argue an Thomas Saf-T-Liner C2 Propane 2017 School Bus fits more passengers than this
"In the end, the conclusion should surprise nobody". True. But I still appreciate the time you took to prove it.
Precisely. Even if it's pretty obvious to us enthusiasts, somebody actually building a tiny workstation might not be so clued in, and now this information directly comparing them exists.
@@DigitalJedi appreciated effort indeed, he constructed this with usefulness in mind I relate to those wanting to know how the latest professional nvidia sff performs against mainstream current gen nvidia sff
As a SFF only builder who appreciates low wattage draw and reduced heat generation, thank you very much for the comparison. As a non gamer, I would appreciate some photo processing speed comparisons such as RAW to JPEG time for 50 to 100 images.
Doesn't that usually use CPU though?
@@spakeschannel Depends on the software.
@@marksulloway5669 Well, I dunno about Capture One, but I'm pretty sure Lightroom uses CPU for exporting.
Just downclock a more reasonably priced gpu.
Just get a new ryzen APU.
I got my 4060 LP back in September - I had to order it from the states via Amazon UK. It's pretty damn good for such a small card.
Curious - do you need a SFF GPU? Personally, I don't... I'd like to need one, in the sense that the machine I'll be picking up probably an A2000 for soon isn't SFF and the reason is most of all price, not only, but mostly. I have a Dell T5810 with a 14core, 96Gb ram currently, 5xGbe NIC's, a quad M.2 SSD card, and a Quadro P4000.
@@noth606 What an odd question - nobody *needs* a SFF gaming GPU. I chose to build a 4 litre low power gaming rig and the 4060 LP is clearly the best choice for that use case.
@@noth606 I absolutely LOVE my 2 Dell T5810s. I found one on the side of the road tossed out for the garbage man and took it home and decontaminated it and got it working. I liked it so much that I purchased 2nd one turn key ready to go off of ebay under $200 dolla. The one I found has a E5 1650-V4. Of course the one I purchased can only do V3 Xeons but I enjoy using both daily. My only complaint is that they cannot do nvidia SLI.
@@noth606 I have a SFF case, which i got for free, and i had this idea to attach one of the several laptop screens i have. So i built this SFF pc, with an i5 12400f, the 4060lp and i attached a 15.6 laptop screen which powers from the computer psu and i even added a handle to the case. So is a very neat sff portable all in one computer i can take with me to a lanparty with my friends... I can upgrade it as is just a regular pc.... I can mod it even further if i feel like (i'd like to integrate speakers)
Also the card is so good, i currently use that pc to power my racing sim. It runs forza horizon 5, the crew 2 and other racing games at 4k very good!
sounds like you NEEDED it for your build specs.
The 4000 was almost perfect!
✅ Lots of memory
✅ Bus powered
✅ ECC memory
✅ Small form factor
❌vGPU support for Prodmox
Jeff - please tell me you have a fix for the last one. 😅
Nope, nvidia started using SR-IOV for vgpu from ampere so the unlock does not work for it....
Is Vgpu. = passtrough ?
Not quite. Vgpu is all about splitting the gpu into multiple virtual gpus (that can then be passed through). Passthrough otherwise works on basically everything these days (barring weird bugs)
@@xpatrikpvp So my A2000 12GB from work doesn't work with vGPU on proxmox as well? For god's sake nVidia what the hell.
As an added note vGPU has been typically available on quadro 5000 and 6000 or higher when there was a 8000. The thing is to inlock vGPU is also requires a software license from Nvidia.
Been waiting for this since the announcement 😁 Keep it up man! Loving the content 👌
You do GPU reviews correctly. The way they should be and i really appreciate that.
What's your definition of "correct"? I believe there is a discussion video on this channel with Steve from Hardware Unboxed on that topic.
Never understood why Nvidia don't have a much wider lineup of SFF/LP cards. For example the AD103 RTX 4090 Mobile/RTX 5000 ADA with 120w TDP would be a fine choice and could surely be adequately cooled with a very similar heatsink to this 4060.
Greed is the answer. Because people would then put cheap GeForce gaming GPUs in servers and workstations, for AI and compute. But for these applications Nvidia wants to sell 5x as expensive Quadro GPUs, even though they have identical silicon under the hood and perform no better. So they force AIBs to only sell higher-end GeForce cards with hilariously oversized 4-slot coolers, such that they don't physically fit in servers/workstations.
@@ProjectPhysX what they do is capitalism: SFF/LP cards NEED low power consuption, make as little heat as possible AND be stable for business. That means NVIDIA can't use the bad~decent portion of the chips they put on gaming cards, they gotta go with the good stuff. That makes LP cards actually way more premium than the gaming GPUs since they're built to take a beating while also being super restricted in power usage.
@@LorikQuinn Lmao you don't have a clue what capitalism is
@@victorkreig6089 it's chasing the bag and setting everything else aside cuz nothing should get in the way of profit. Not a difficult concept tbh
demand, there just isn't demand for it as most people have matx or atx builds which can house a fullsize gpu meaning you don't need to go out of your way to develop a product which becomes a nightmare as you go up the product sack, so there is no real reason to make a few let alone a full product sack
4:00 Correction. AD104 is the 4070, but not the 4080 unless you mean 4080 mobile. The desktop 4080 uses AD103.
You are correct.
For gaming, your conclusion would be accurate.
For AI, the 8 GB of VRAM on the 4060 might be able to load some basic models, but you can either do text-based AI or AI generated pictures, but not both, simultaneously (whereas with the RTX 4000 Ada SFF, you'd be able to run both basic models, simultaneously).
Still waiting on a Voodoo 5500 benchmark :P
I was about to say "I know a guy".... then I saw the user name.
Well played sir.
This might be Mandela effect , but i remember sli was a passthough externaly on the rear of the case, but weren't the cards also powered by external power adapters? (wall worts) ?
bro how long you been waiting? since the Maximum PC days? 😭😭😭😭
@@OfSheikah AND I'M STILL WAITING!
@@fuzzymuppet1990 The passthrough was for the 3dfx Voodoo 1 & 2. It was needed because the 3DFX Voodoo 1&2 did not have 2D capabilities only 3D so you would have to pair it with a 2D card. :) the 3DFX Voodoo 2 used a internal ribbit cable for SLI and some Voodoo 1 cards did the same.
Great video Jeff. Any chance you'd be willing to do a comparison of the 2000, 4000, 4060 LP, and maybe any other LP/SFF cards you can get your hands on, in regards to their performance vs cost for things like video transcoding, CAD, 3D rendering? I'm working on building a small server on a budget for hosting Plex/Jellyfin for a handful of people (up to maybe 5 or 6 simultaneous streams, depending on cost) and I'm not sure yet which way I should go in regards to transcoding. Most of my content is stored in 4k and is streamed to a range of devices from tablets to TVs.
Thank you for this, i hate how few video reviews/testings these A-Cards get.
I guess you didnt like the beer.... the glass was too full during the video!!!
Nooooo.... no no no no no.
no.
While on its face this comparison may seem crazy, it’s the exact comparison we all would have done in our heads. Thanks for making the magic happen, as always!
I’ve had the 4060LP in a HP Z2 SFF since may and it’s a pretty rock solid card for what it is. My use case for needing the SFF as this is the computer in my living room media center. The case cannot vent the heat though, and I had to cut a slot above the GPU in the panel and mount a 3x80mm vent grill which allows enough air circulation to keep it happy
Shuttle PC lol that brings back memories. Those piped heatsinks were cool though.
they are still around or not?
@@scudsturm1 I guess so look over on shuttlecomputers lol.
I still have one!
The one with an x79 board and a xeon e5 cpu.
A hell of mini pc for the era!
Thank you for this comparison! The other advantage of the 4000 ADA SFF is you don't need the PCIE cable so this will be easier to install into tiny SFF cases.
Could you compare these two cards in a few Blender rendering tests?
Not just that: the 4060 will blow its 120W into the case. The quadro will blow its 70W+eventual hot air outside of the case.
For a super tiny pc, that's a big difference.
The reason why I'm looking for a A2000 (budget doesn't allow more)
there is a intel sff form factor for its arc series, not saying it will be close but be interesting to see its numbers, especially with av1 encoding and decoding.
Yeah, I mentioned the A380. It struggles to keep up with even the RX 6400 in gaming. Definitely a decent option if you're looking for video encode/decode though.
The ADA card is a godsend for AI. You would be a silly goose to buy it for anything else. I would love to see AI benchmarks in your reviews since my personal homelab depends on AI services more and more. I bet I am not the only viewer who feels this way.
Would like to see how the rtx 2000 Ada Generation 16gb stacks up in the SFF lineup
slightly worse than the 4060 LP in gaming performance for double the price, not worth it
I see you post, i make my tea and start to watch with you. Cant drink, but I still enjoy!
I made tea a couple videos back :-)
One question for you. Did you use the gaming setting on the RTX 4000 ada. NVidia builds profiles in the RTX XXXX Ada that allow it to run in gaming mode. I like how you mentioned that the RTX 4000 Ada is not a gaming card. Also the "Quadro" offers ISV certifications that are important for productivity and engineering applications. I think you should explain that a lot of the cost difference is in the ECC memory used in the "Quadro". Good overall review for gaming.
Would love to see the performance difference with resolve/Premiere, great video nonetheless!
if your mobo is overbuilt enough to blow past that 75w limit, that card should OC like crazy
Thank you very much for this comparison!
Something you used to be able to do with old Quadro cards was disabling ECC for the memory on the card. Theoretically this was supposedly improving the memory performance. Don't know if the RTX 4000 use ECC for the memory or if it can be disabled. But if it does use ECC and it can be disabled then it might be interesting to see if it really changes performance.
16:47 Idk, but my *impression* from watching the video was that the 4000 had a trend of miserable 1% / 0.1% lows in the games where it lost out in terms of overall experience in a more pronounced way than the 4060 did when it lost out?
Either way, if you're getting an SFF card for gaming, the 4060 appears to be the obvious choice given the price difference and overall similar performance.
exactly
9:10 I look at consistency, the 4060 gaming card is constant in trying to keep up with the FPS (its designed for gaming), if i had the 4000 i would notice 30 fps, most players I've talked to prefer 60fps and above, its noticeable when it gets bellow that
Just a small nitpick, AD104 goes up to the 4070TI, 4070ti Super and onwards are AD103
Hi there Jeff!
It would be also interesting to see the difference between these two cards in a PCIe 3.0 system, as I think it is the one most people use as daily driver (if I am not mistaken). Another interesting thing to see is the gap between these cards and the RTX A2000 (both the 6 and 12 GB VRAM versions) for people that play games and do some kind of video editing.
The 4000 SFF would be the uncontested leader. The 4060 only has 4.0 x8 lanes where the 4000 has 4.0 x16. Downgrade the lanes by a generation, and that halved bandwidth from the GPU will start to pose performance penalties.
You should review the new RTX 2000 ada alongside these. It just released in february and and you'd be the first to do a legitimate review of it as far as I can tell, but its half the price of the 4000 ada while still boasting a massive 16gb of vram.
it's about double the price of the 4060 LP though and offers slightly worse gaming performance than the 4060. That 16GB of VRAM is the only thing that separates it from the 4060
4:16 Another thing that differentiates the 4000 Ada from the 4060 is the former has 2 hardware encoders and decoders instead of just 1. That even beats the 4090, which has 2 encoders but only 1 decoder. Though I think a more fair comparison would be the 4060 against the 2000 Ada instead, since it has closer specs and 16 GB of VRAM instead of 20.
I wonder if these would fit with slim coolers and SFF brackets in a Minisforum MS01. That would be such a killer combo especially for the 20GB card since it has no power connectors
There is a company that makes a mod for the A2000 and A4000 that turns them into single slot cards for about $89 so they will fit Minisforums MS01.
I have a soft spot for a decently performing graphics card that doesn't require external power. Really wish we would get more updated options as such. I keep an old GTX 1650 laying around that I use for testing purposes on new system builds and occasionally playing with a low power system for fun.
What this tells me is that Nvidia could do a better low power GPU that doesn't need the extra power plug. Back when the 1050 came out. That was something I liked about it. It wasn't an anemic GPU tho it could be plugged into those OEM refurb you find for cheap. And have a decent budget gaming PC. But as they've shift around their chips on the naming and prices bracket. Good low end or low power GPU banished.
I really like that RTX 4000 and what it can do. As of now, the only reason why I still have nvidia GPU is because of their power advantages. And seeing their Quadro been this efficient I'd like one. But at that price. I currently have an RTX 3060 ti. undervolt. My goal is to get the most I can under 200W. Preferably 150-175 avg. Now I believe is one of the 4070 variants when undervolted.
I'm certainly intrigued by the performance of other small GPUs, especially stuff that might only fit within a *single* expansion slot, though I doubt many others woould
Awesome video! Thanks for the numbers
maurice Moss got a laugh :)
Marsellus wallace was the boss
and Jules Winefield was the "badmother fu...."
Such a awesome video!!!! Cheers for making this video
Could you add thermals? Cause thats another very important factor
They also power mode the a4000 to 110 watts. And single slot coolers will be coming out.
Got me a 4060LP back in January. Lots of power in a small package. I can finally game decent on my HTPC.
14:46 as impressive as these System Power figures are, I wonder how much more energy saving SFF PC a 7800x3d paired with 16GB of ddr5 4800/5200/5600 jedec 1.1V would be... 13900 whenn not maxed out can save a lot if not 100% load but nowhere near AM5 ecomodes at same erfromance FPS output...or it will make for a good comaprison video?
In researching the spec of these two cards, I found that the 4060 card is PCIE 4.0 * 8, whereas the ADA card is PCIE 4.0 * 16. Graphics cards are not an area of my expertise, so I would appreciate your take on the type of applications that would be effected by the difference in the width of the PCIE connection.
"you don't need more than 8Go of VRAM" Cities:skylines players laughing in the back. ^^'
Great video. is it possible to benchmark the fastest SFF gpu for AI inference tasks on LLM and SDXL. Let’s put the RTX4060lp vs RTX A2000-12GB vs RTX 4000 on the track. Really interested to see which gpu provides the $/perf value.
I once attempted to benchmark SD with rtx a2000 12gb vs 4060 8gb, the 4060 competely destroys a2000 12gb even when 4060 ran out of vram
I have been genuinely interested in this graphics card as I have several 2u servers and plan to add one using the Silverstone 2u chasis for a cloud gaming machine and test out dedulication as I reinstall games fairly often and have friends over fairly often.
Subscribed for the legit beer review.
This is insane! I honestly thought the ADA 4000 would roll the 4060lp up and smoke it but this? I sincerely never thought it would compare let alone trade blows. If I had the money for the ADA 4k at launch and a 7800x3d I would've built an insane 4l ITX rig with it and if I knew the 4060 was this similar I'd have the worst buyers remorse of my life. Probably THE most interesting GPU comparison I've ever seen. Watt for watt even though the idea of running the 70 watt ADA 4k for longer with my camper's battery is cool I'll keep my 3060 for now. Super interesting video!
To be fair, the A4000 isn't a gaming gpu. If you take a quadro and a geforce, set them both to exactly the same spec, you'll have the geforce winning every game test like this one by a landslide.
Generally speaking, a quadro isn't worth the attention unless you need the driver, the extra vram and so on for some specific reason.
So. how do these perform head to head running something like ollama ? As you noted the 4000 is targeted at AI workloads etc. Also having them compared for total power consumed for task might be interesting given the 4000s lower power needs.
SFF is one slot not 2. Dell makes a SFF two slot 3070 btw. RX6400, 1070's can be found. Like I said SFF is one slot. 1650's as well.
Good Job, only missed the TEMP comparison
14:14 what about those temps? I thought noise was missing though
@@Incommensurabilities indeed also missing noise readings, to me it's obvious the blower fan makes more sound....
Both cards are virtually silent. You'd be hard pressed to hear either of them over your power supply fan.
I wonder if the game ready drivers were installed on the 4000 ADA or not? It officially only has studio drivers but you can still download/install the same game ready drivers from the 4060. That might fix the bad 0.1% lows. I definitely noticed an uplift when installing them on my A2000.
I'd like to see the AV1 transcoding performance in Plex.
Once again, I really wish you had included some AI or workstation-pertinent benchmarks given how relevant those are becoming these days. I have to assume that the massive increase in CUDA cores would make a big difference for inference/GPU-accelerated processing or video encoding. There are very few, if any, channels that do these kinds of benchmarks, so you'd be cutting edge if you at least mentioned it at all.
8GB vs 20GB of Vram is probably going to be the biggest deciding factor for most CUDA workloads
@@mar2ck_ Depends on the task, a lot of inference models would comfortably fit into 8GBs, although running a local high-parameter LLM would be out of the question. But that does get into my biggest gripe with this card; why no 16GB model? It would not only be a workstation powerhouse, but future-proofed for 1080p gaming for the rest of the decade (which is great since these SFF cards are far and few between).
Would be awesome to see you make a small form factor build around the 4060!
this goes to show the 4060 is just a 50 class gpu with near 70 class pricing. There's a reason 60 class chips were never low profile.
14:16 So the A4000 uses 34w less, lower clock, yet better performance? Whats sorcery is this?!
??? this video doesn't have an A4000 in it
Thanks mate, this is interesting. 4060 LP owner, but have always wondered how it would stack up vs the 4000 Ada. Thought the latter would be well ahead, tbh!
I'm kind of wondering how the Ada 4000 does for Plex transcoding. I obviously know price to performance makes no sense, but I just want to know if it's better than quick sync on an Intel 13700k.
this was awesome watching 2 completely different priced GPus going head to head and being matched like wtf.
Im a PC enthusiast but am new to the AI workloads, they would benefit from the VRAM increase of the quadro, wouldnt they, or would they have a similar showing? From what ive seen, AI workloads want more RAM
I bought one of these in September for a super skinny build. I think i paired it with a 7600x. Ran super hot until i flipped the CPU fan and used it as an exhaust. Very nice card for the size!
Can you compare the 3050 lp with an rtx a2000, 4060 and ada 4000sff
So the a4000 don't need additional power from the power supply
I would like to have a comparison in terms of 3D Archviz and Stable Diffusion of these two cards, especially in terms of 3dsmax UI speed and V-Ray performance and generation / scaling to 4k using Stable Diffusion🤔
20GB of VRAM in the 4000 and basically 2x as many cuda cores. It’ll be interesting to see a direct comparison but I’m gonna guess that the 4000 trounces the 4060 in AI applications for those reasons alone.
It would be nice to know how it does in. Homelab.
Ordered the rtx 4000 sff just recently for a fortune of 1500 EUR. I need a lot of VRAM for AI in my 2 HE server, so I guess I did the right choice. Just wish there were more cards with a lot of VRAM in SFF, that don't cost like flagship gaming gpu (while only having 1/3 of flagship gpu performance)
Nice review but I think only testing gaming on RTX 4000 is a bit unfair since it's not build for this main objective in mind, I would love to see more testing, like LLM's/AI benchmark.
How come your specs on the A4000 seem so off all I find is it's a 16 Gb card which draws 140w granted all I can seem to find is the PNY VCNRTXA4000-PB
Great comparison! I'd be very interested to see how they compare in workstation type loads.
someone does a shunt mod service for the a4000 ada. apparently it runs faster than a 3070ti and pulls just over 100w under load.
I heard u mentioned Shuttle PC. I had one too and was how I got my feet wet in the small form factor world.
Trying to add a 6/8 pin power connector by some way may make the 4000 sff able to perform better, but that mod should be a pain in the ass to make, but just imagine the performance...
There is a mod for it that makes it so it performs like a slightly OC 3070ti. It’s on Reddit and I plan to get that mod done to my card and their cooper cooler mod. But the cooler mod isn’t finalized yet and I want both done in one go.
@@HeyNavi could you tell me the reddit username of that modder? I wanna see how it is going
@@TheIgor449 JKGVentures
This is the video I've been waiting for, Thank you
My supermicro server case doesn't have extra pcie power cables. basically two eps for the motherboard and a bunch of molex for the backplane. The 4000 SFF allows some decent passthrough gaming VM action.
We really need more attention toward the SFF market.
What happens if the rtx 4060 lp without energy connector? Only 75 watt pcie mode??
Is there any way to overclock the 4000?
Shunt mod maybe? :D
There are some people who have shunt modded it to 130W....
I wonder which games you can still play in 4K at 60 fps or more with these low-profile cards. It would be cool to build an itx pc and connect it to a 4K tv in the living room and play games with an xbox controller.
I would love to know how many concurrent camera feeds each card can handle in blue iris.
The sff A4000 is gonna be an amazing choice in the future on the used market once a lot of them drop from the workstations just as it happened with the low profile A2000. 20GB of VRAM and 70W TDP will surely make some sff pc or one with a weak PSU a small gaming beast.
Tasty video 👍
If 4060 draws little or no power from PCIe slot (dunno?), then maybe that's a tiny win rel. to Quadro, saving a smidge on wear and tear of mobo's power components. Down the road, similar replacement mobo probably harder (and costlier) to source than a PSU.
Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.
@CraftComputing
Jeff, while this suggestion may seem like a waste of time, a run-down comparison of the 4060SFF and the 3050SFF would show interesting results. Also remember, that some people, myself included, consider 720p/768p perfectly acceptable and valid gaming resolutions. Perhaps show us a few benchmarks for that res bracket. EDIT: forgot to mention, good show on this one! This video was interesting and your points about cost vs performance vs power usage are spot on!
those resolutions are moot, pretty much every game can be set at 1080p high/ultra with both of these cards with more then acceptable frame rates.
@@Rustyer266 And for the few that can't (Alan Wake 2?), DLSS is still an option and is usually better than 720p.
@@Rustyer266
Not true. Games older than 2019? Sure, you might get away with a few settings on max at 1080p, but 720p/768p is a given for those systems that can't really get high end performance 1080p. I'm a custom system builder with 35+ years experience, I know my craft..
I'd really love to see the difference between an sff version of a card and a full size. So basically a 4060 founders vs this sff one from gigabyte
What about running some benchmarks that are compute oriented and would also benefit from more memory? The tradeoff of core count vs frequency works quite nicely at these GPUs for gaming, and you can see that games are trying really hard to fit in 8GB to please the average kids.
Im Planning to build a Power efficient Ai PC and im really tempted by this card in pair with AMD Pro Ryzen 5750G all ECC.
is there any competitor for RX 6400 in single slot low profile for factor? A310 is lot weaker.. although, it has hardvare decorers
When are you going to try out the intel flex 170 Gpu with proxmox? Unofficial support for sr-iov.
As soon as I can get my hands on one. I've been told multiple times 'they're in the mail'...
I like your vdi vids. but i watch a lot of all your stuff. good work. enterprise for all
how about a price/performance comparison betweeen that 4060 lp and the 3050 lp?
Can you test the Plex transcoding performance of the SFF, with its DUAL encoders? In x265 and AV1 please 🙏🙏
Love this topic as I'm in the market for a SFF GPU to pair with a cheap old Dell office PC secondhand for purposes of building an Emulation box that can handle up to PS3 and Xbox 360. This 4060 LP could be just what I need.
Would love to know if there is a difference in transcoding between the cards, specifically on Plex
I'd love to see you an ollama llm benchmark along side the games.
Just built a small formfactor 13400F system that would be killer with this class of card. From an efficiency stand point AND from a "tinkerer" / Homelab enthusiast standpoint, I am VERY curious as to how that ada card would fair in GPU-p / vGPU scenario.
1 Liter PC enjoyer here, the point here is that there's simply no auxiliary power input to be found in chassis so the GPU must be powered by the PICE slot alone. I have a ThinkStation P3 Tiny from Lenovo and it can take LP single-slot PCIE cards. I am currently pairing it with an A2000 with a modified one-slot cooler.
The man making the single slot cooler for A2000 is also doing so for Tesla P4/T4, A4000 Ada SFF, and 4060LP(by removing 1 HDMI port). If you could limit the power budget of the 4060LP to 75W and compare the performance, I think the result would be interesting.
I compared the prices of A2000 and A4000 Ada SFF when I built this system, and I just picked A2000 as A4000 Ada SFF costs twice as much.
I've been saying since the launch of the 4060 and 4060 ti that eventually nVidia would have to make a low profile version if they ever wanted to sell through their stock of these chips at MSRP or slightly higher pricing (since they don't seem to want to drop prices)... I'm only wondering what took so long for an OEM to take advantage of the efficiency of these chips to help distinguish themselves in the market? Now all we need is for N3rdware to come out with a single slot cooler designed for this card!
Boy, I'd love to see a 4060 ti 16GB version of this card, but I doubt nVidia will allow that to happen...
I wonder if a shunt mod with a 6pin connector added could help the Quadro. Like the baby kinpin card that was made.
Great video Jeff!
Nice test. But, how about software like; Autocad, Revit, 3Ds Max(with Vray), Lumion...?