Free speech for Christians vs. Satanists
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Should Christians be free to hold an event in a public library? What about Satanists? We spoke with attendees at CPAC to see if they’re consistent about free speech for religions they might not agree with. #religion #republicans #freespeech #streetinterview
I do appreciate that at least half of them were willing to be say "Yes, it should be allowed".
The lady who didn’t had it right. Satanism is literally the worship of the concept of evil and selfishness. We wouldn’t allow a cannibal religion to flourish in America, so there are clearly limits to that freedom. There exists no good that can come from allowing Satanism a public display. You’re literally allowing evil a place in society, a society that is fundamentally Christian. Terrible things happen to societies that abandon the ideology they’re based on.
"For good of people" that's the worst answer possible. It implies that someone actually can decide what religion is for the good of people...
What if we just “establish” what the good one is??
@@VeniVidiVid well, for someone worshiping their god in churchbis good, and for others - sacrificing a goat in heir basement. For someone being vegetarian is good, for someone else not eatung meat is a death sentence. So no, let's not "establish" anything. There's a logic, reasoning and situation assesment. Those tools can be used. Also, you can always tell someone what you THINK is good for them. And they can decline it. That's how freedom works.
If someone is preahing freedom - they have no say in "what is good for people"
I think the more libertarian interpretation is “so long as it doesn’t violate non-aggression”. But that’s probably not quite what she was getting at.
None of them are
Who says whats good and what's not? That is the real question
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
That also applies to muslims, Wiccans, satan worshippers, or any of the other 4200 religions who can and will be allowed in public libraries too. Good idea. ROTFLMAO!!
Isn't that part of that document I legislators basically threw away?
@@mstrainjrYep. And also swore to defend. Every last one of them.
Yep. As long as the organization follows the rules of the library, like being quiet and not disturbing others, they should absolutely be able to congregate there and exercise their right to assemble.
How about local governments? They're not Congress.
If The State isn’t enforcing religion,
a religious organization utilizing public facilities is no different than a book club…
What if the book club Has drag queens reading questionable books to children. Still okay?
That also applies to muslims, Wiccans, satan worshippers, or any of the other 4200 religions who can and will be allowed in public libraries too. Good idea. ROTFLMAO!!
Correct. If you allow one you allow all.
I absolutely agree with the comment above, allow one allow all, however all believes should follow the rules of the place. Just how we all agree to the Constitution as Americans, we need to follow the basic rules of the library, like don’t disturb others, don’t cause a racket, return books on time… those sort of things.
@@DumbTheWise So don't throw an event at a library? Damn it...
The only speech that needs protection is unpopular speech.
It’s still speech, therefore under a right. Your point is?
yep. end of discussion.
@@whitewinterresorts7679 Not really, his point is flawed. Hitler suppressed unpopular speech because it was against him, are we to do the same by the OP’s comment?
The point of the First Amendment is to allow for anyone to have speech, unpopular or not. Does that mean we have to make laws to settle that one opinion/speech? No, of course not. Majority rules, minority rights. But they still should be able to say what they want to, knowing that they can be protected and not have to fear speaking out.
Yea like let’s give nazis some more breathing room, they need to be able to express their opinion:
i wouldn't want to talk about ending society and falling into the abyss of degeneracy thank you. Bad ideas should be shut down like satanists
The “good of humanity“ it’s just a euphemism for what conforms to her religious beliefs
Bingo
Liberal in the house.
@@brianzuchelli2988Religious bootlicker in the house
@@brianzuchelli2988I’m not liberal, but I would absolutely agree with him. “Good” and “bad” are subjective, and while I do agree with her views on good and bad I don’t think they should be used as a basis to kick people out of the library.
@@brianzuchelli2988 TST, The Satanic Temple. Their beliefs are not ones that harm anybody, nor are they anything that is aggressive. They simply are activists that want everyone to be treated right. Satan is simply their icon of rebellion, like in the Bible. And modern Satanism also is just rebelionism ( if that's a word). Just rebelling against laws and rules that cause nothing but hurt to the people affected by it. TST has worked hard to make it's followers allowed to have abortions in every state. That's a good thing. No matter who you are, someone being forced to have a child is a terrible thing. Nobody should have to go through that. Most people I talk to in my generation don't even want kids. Satanism isn't bad. I find eating the body of a deity that turned itself human to only have itself be killed as an icon of hope to be odd. Maybe a little. Oh, don't forget about drinking it's blood.
It's impressive that MOST of them got it right. Not all is lost.
Voltaire needs to be required reading in English AND civics class
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” is the basis for ALL our liberties.
It’s no coincidence that the revolution began after British policing forces fired on protestors who disagreed with British monarchical rule.
As long as they are not advocating for crimes against the life liberty and property rights of others.
Correct, but they are not.
Even then. . .
so what about communists who advocate against personal property rights?
The only speech that needs protection is unpopular speech....otherwise "freedom of speech" is meaningless.
Well given that Satanist are in favor of abortion i'd argue they do.
Actually they can, lol. It just can't be imminent.
The based libertarian answer to this question is that the library shouldn't be public.
Especially in the Internet age. But also in general.
Lol 🤣
Why shouldn’t the library be public? Public libraries are awesome and allow for anyone to learn, and also promotes reading. If it were private, not as many people could enjoy it.
And that just shows how dumb libertarians are
Because I'm a libertarian and I'm not interested in utilitarianism@@DumbTheWise
I love how immediately defensive her loud archetype always gets 😂
This is not a hard question. Period. Free speech. Freedom of religion. Whether you agree with the speech or religion is not relevant. If you want freedoms, then you must stand for freedom for all.
That also applies to muslims, Wiccans, satan worshippers, or any of the other 4200 religions who can and will be allowed in public libraries too. Good idea. ROTFLMAO!!
slippery slope
I agree the enlightenment was a mistake, reject modernism return to medievalism.
If that libertine crap is what you call freedom, then I’d rather not have it. Tell me, would you allow a religion that cannibalizes people? What if they consented to it for their religion? Does that sound like a good thing? Is that freedom, to pursue evil? Clearly there must be limits to freedom, otherwise it becomes anarchy. I’d say a good limit is to forbid the public display of a religion that literally preaches evil.
"Weirdos are the canaries of freedom."
- John M. Buol Jr.
You can accurately gauge a commitment to freedom by how people deviating from current societal norms are treated.
Very underrated comment
I think it’s idiotic to treat those who are devious or even degenerate as being the pinnacle of freedom. We’ve seen clearly that when you let deviants run rampant, Everton starts becoming a deviant. Your kind of freedom is anarchy. Freedom is the ability to pursue truth and what is good. Satanism is the opposite, it only harms society, that’s the point of it. It’s a rebellion against truth.
Even by your own standards, we don’t practice freedom. Otherwise, we’d be allowed to read Bibles in school. We aren’t, even though it’s objectively the most influential and important piece of text in western history. You’d think that’d be an important part of the curriculum, but it’s restricted so heavily. Meanwhile many schools will allow other ideologically charged books with no qualms.
The contradiction is killing me 😂
What contradiction? Most of them said it was fine even though they disagreed with it.
the good of humanity isnt a good way to look at it because what happens when you redefine good
They’re gonna ban the good anyway, even under your libertine version of freedom. It’s idiotic how this line of logic works. You basically say that because we’re afraid an evil group might gain power to redefine something objective, we should… give them an easier path to convincing people with their lies and make it easier for them to do just that… at that point why not just ban them?
"Chrisians should be able to hold events wherever they want" yikes, bad phrasing
I will say reservations of public areas for events is fair tho
P.S. I dont have an issue with Christians, my family is Christian, but I refuse to believe in byass of exclusiveness toward particular party
Library is for reading books not for holding events there is a place for everything if you want to hold a religious event do it in the church or mosque
We are, of course, presupposing that it is the role of the government to maintain libraries.
Yes, the government is allowed to fund centers of learning, and should also be allowed to give preference to the religion that founded our society. Governments have funded libraries since both government and writing have existed together. Your libertarian principles are contrary to reason.
@Brother_Piner "I like libraries. Therefore, the government should fund them."
Big brain argument, right there. 🧠
?
Freedom of assembly and freedom of speech means that you get these freedoms regardless of the good of humanity.
When you allow evil a voice, and treat them as equal to good things, don’t be surprised when evil triumphs and bans the good. It’s already happening. These people don’t care about those values the same way you do. To them, the constitution is just a piece of paper. Why allow them to flourish and destroy you when they are objectively evil? It baffles me how you libertarian-minded people love to concede ground to your enemies that wouldn’t ever do the same to you.
"No, I don't support my enemies."
I don't think public libraries should be funded by extorting peaceful people.
Based
I would bet those people don’t even know what satanism is lol. I could almost guarantee you that they would think that it’s people that worship satan, which it’s not.
I do worship lucifer. I'm not a reddit atheist trying to get attention like the ones that you see organizing lol
@@vanilla8956 okay but the type of satanism that these people would immediately think is theistic satanism which most members of the satanic temple are not. These people would assume that all members of the satanic temple are theistic satanists, which many are not. These people would assume everyone is like you unless they worship the rapist they worship. Oh I mean the god that impregnates women against their will. To them all religions other than United States evangelical Christianity is theistic satanism. They believe all Muslims worship the devil, they believe all Sikhs worship Satan.
That’s what I was trying to get at, these people don’t even try to understand other religions but demand that everyone respects their beliefs.
Oh there's that one person again...
5 minutes with the average voter
Private events no but yes they should be allowed to hold events there if everyone is allowed as long as they arent monopolizing the library time yes. Personally im not going to the kids science events in the library if you dont like an event all you have to do is not go and wait for an event you like to book the library. Its like preformace artists in the streets they are public streets if i dont like whats happening im free to walk away.
Are they all completely ignoring that the venue being discussed is a "PUBLIC LIBRARY" who holds a forking event at a library? Library is for reading, where people come to read books in a quiet place. I can't see what advantage a library can have as a place to hold events. I mean is there a lot of space there? Heck even streets are better than a library at least you can't block people going in the cars. Oh my bad. You can! Just hold events at places that are made for holding events....
Library is a place where books stored and can be read regardless of religion. One thing should be maintained, silence as much you can do. And no other noisy and inappropriate events should be have. Amen
In his famous book, The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce defined Christian as "one who follows the teachings of Christ, insofar as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin."
Draw your own conclusions.
I dont like satanists. Worshipping the devil is wack. But go ahead and speak in public, nobody should be bothering you. I may not like what ya got to say, but you do have the right to say it.
As long as they are the actual satanists who advocated for science ( and got demonized for it, just the name alone says how demonized) and not the edgy satanists, its cool.
That's so funny. If you've ever met a Satanist they are pretty normal people with their own moral system. Though they believe in an eye for an eye and stuff.
Consistency of the rule of law can be a B!#ch. Most were spot on except for the lady who proposes to be the arbiter of what is "good".
"We don't stand for that!" . . Dressed as pagan godess . .
Can you just call any practice a "religion" and then invoke freedom of religion?
The freedom of speech is not there for speech you agree with but for that which you don't.
Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.
Whether you agree with it or not. It must go both ways.
Absolutely. Part of being free is letting others be free too.
But they're so annoying.
It actually doesn’t. Freedom without limits is just anarchy. We wouldn’t allow a cannibal cult freedom of religion, even if the victims were consenting or some nonsense like that. We wouldn’t allow a suicidal cult either. The truth is, freedom can only exist if it is in pursuit of the truth and the good of society. Satanism is firmly against such things. They believe in the ideas of someone called “the father of lies”. There’s zero reason to tolerate such a thing, it only has a negative effect on society.
God gave us free will, we should be able to use it, but actions do have consequences.
I’d say it depends entirely upon what happens in the event (legal v. non legal)
Why specifically christians. Also maybe not in a library.
"I believe the devil is real, I believe he wants to corrupt the minds of children and government figures, but I don't want to look like I have double standards so sure, Satanists can meet at the library" is so twisted. How do you both believe magic and spirits and stuff is real enough to vote on but not real enough to take seriously? I'm an atheist, I believe everything i say. If i thought the lord was real I'd be genuinely afraid of the devil enough that I'd actually try to stop him XD
Liberty is more important than what any god demands
Depends on how extreme the satanists are, if tangent are harming people or sacrificing people or whatever then no, but if they are just worshiping a being that wants to torture all of humanity forever, we really can’t stop them
We can, and should.
The answer is yes. It should be allowed. Not that hard.
Because the Vatican is known to have done so much good.😂
Public (Government) libraries shouldn’t exist.
This is the correct answer to the question. No government libraries, no debate about the misuses of them. Treat the root cause, not the symptom.
In an ideal world, libraries would be venerated, assuming that society threw it's weight behind education, instead of a demented weapons industry with the sole purpose of ginning up global conflict so its handlers can profit.
Yeah this is a real issue just the other day…
Carnegie ought made them private.
Well that was creepy/american!
What is the purpose of a library?
All religious groups, or none.
What is it about satanists that the statue of liberty lady doesnt value? How many people actually know what satanism is or can point to examples of it being harmful?
The gateway to being an ethical libertarian is to tolerate other free people engaging in activities you despise which caused no direct harm to others.
Satanism is harmful
Ethical libertarian is an oxymoron. Libertarianism is about allowing anything regardless of whether it’s good or bad. That fundamentally harms society, since evil doesn’t play by the same rules as good. These Satanists want to ban Christianity because they think it’s hateful. They and their atheist ilk have already managed to take the Bible out of schools, and children aren’t allowed to perform Christian prayers in school anymore, even if they’re only doing it by themselves.
While your kind are in power, they’ll allow Satanists and anti-Christians to flourish. When Satanists and anti-Christians are in power, they will not allow the same thing for Christianity, and they don’t care what the constitution says. It’s just a sheet of parchment paper, at the end of the day, it’s not an almighty protection.
So no, you absolutely can and should ban the literal devil from public spaces. I can’t believe I have to say this to people.
love how only one lady said no, the rest were like "...well shit. fine I- I GUESS they can >:("
I love the one lady that did, she truly understands what is good. The rest are confused, thinking freedom means the freedom to be evil. That’s libertine thinking. It’s basically anarchy.
@@Brother_Piner jokes on you I *like* anarchy
Would they be quiet?
As a Christian yes satanist should have the right to freedom of religion/speech.
I don’t agree with them and think it’s ridiculous to acknowledge Satan is evil and against god, but then stick with him anyway even though believing in Satan means you believe in god. But what ever it’s their right.
Satanists don't consider Satan to be evil, since 'good' and 'evil' are relative terms
@@steve0t107 if i remember right (i might not, this is based off a wikipedia rabbit hole i went down like 3 years ago lol) most Satanists dont actually believe in Satan, or any god, theirs is a religion about the power of yourself or something, and they only call themselves that to piss off Christians/publicity
@@Sindmar That's certainly part of it
@@SindmarWhich is rather corny, but it is what it is really
@@SindmarIf it’s solely made to mock Christianity, then it’s not a religion, and we should be free to ban its displays. If it is a religion, then it argues for objectively evil things, and should be banned, just like we’d ban any religion that tries to promote cannibalism or suicide.
Freedom of religion.
I find much of the modern condition concerning, but the slow loss of the "R" in the word "library" is profoundly disturbing.
Satanism
Where were the interviews being taken place at?
CPAC
Ah; thanks for the heads up.
Public libraries aren't actually public and can have the discretion to choose events that reflect their values. We can already see what's happening in the communities that have devalued Christian values.
Depending on the specific definition of satanism, its virtues could be the seven deadly sins, which are either illegal or dangerous to one's health.
Just don't fund public libraries. It is sick to force people to fund an institution. It is even worse to then use that institution to sponsor activities that those people despise.
If we didn’t have bad speech how would we know what good speech is. Freedom means free to do whatever you want not whatever someone else thinks is ok
The standard of what's good for humanity shifts. This is yet another reason why taxation is theft.
If we can just get the right and middle to realize this before they shift even further left we might achieve FREEDOM
Freedom of speech includes people who offend you. Your 1st ammendment isnt to not be offended by other people's speech. It's not a one way right.
No. We reserved rooms for study at public libraries and day of we were turned away because we were 16. This happened multiple times. If I can't reserve a room and have it honored then no one can.
Worse than communists
Who
"Good" is subjective. Remember, lots of people think "gender affirming" surgeries for kids are "good" and therapy for kids with gender dysphoria is "bad."
Good is objective and defined by God, anything less leads to pure chaos.
@@gmanplaysgames256which god?
Redditoid, I'm laughing at you @@EricGranata
Which god? @@gmanplaysgames256 don't say "the real one" either cuz every one of the hundreds of thousands of religions in the world thinks they have the real one
@@RougeDeBlah what’s a “redditoid”? My question is legitimate. See @cozbyv3’s remark.
Lie berries
I hate everything about this gotcha question. The last woman is the only one who is coherent
Nuh uh Satanists shouldn't. There is a difference between a religion, which's best interest is make world a better place by making people better and there's a difference between an institution, which's only purpose is to mock a religion and say "hey we're the cool kids and we allow the stuff that is forbidden by other religions". Yes Christianity, yes Islam, yes Judaism, yes Hinduism, no Scientology, no Satanism
This went a lot better than I thought it would.
... .. ..
Most of us do wants schools and libraries and hospitals and roads and even cops. So sorry you got out-voted.
@@gamkal7231Only cops
I was literally thinking about satanists way before they got to satanism. In America there's this thing call the balancing test. I'm probably not the best person to teach about this concept as it requires a lengthy and in-depth explanation so you should probably go and learn what it is, but long story short this a test can determine to what extent things are allowed. The balancing test can be determined if Nazis can have parades or if satanist can gather in public spaces or if Christians and maybe Muslims, Jews, Buddhist, etc. could too, but usually public spaces despite being public tend to exempt certain demonstrations to avoid controversy and bias. So long before I heard the answers I had already said no, despite being a pretty devoted Christian and a devout Catholic, I said no in my head because I already contemplated about satanists being able to use public spaces.
We think Christians praying in public a good thing and a moral good but bring up satanist and people will get an icky feeling, hence why is probably for the better that neither group should use public spaces and to avoid any biases, I would much rather see Christians or other religions before the satanist and I am a bit biased because I'm a Christian, and of course I have disdain towards satanists, but I know its for the best if keep certain things away from public spaces. Private is a whole different story, Nazis could have a hootenanny in private a it can be no one's business, usually Supreme Court cases have ruled that private places are a free ground for things like that. People forget or don't know that freedom of speech is not absolute, or other first amendment things, were a democracy not an anarchy, you can be held accountable for threats or use to, and the government has the right to censor certain things during times of war
Balancing tests are unconstitutional too and courts shouldn’t do them. The only reason balancing tests exist is that they were invented by bad courts who wanted to bypass their constitutional role.
Interesting
I personally don't think Christians praying in public, at least in a tax-funded public place is good. It's not only unconstitutional, Jesus himself said these people are only putting on shows. And they are. Prayer should be private and confined to places of worship funded by their own congregations. Not foisted on everyone;
Privatize roads
Satanism doesn't qualify itself as a religion. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc. do qualify themselves as religions. Freedom of religion doesn't qualify to an organization that explains itself as not a religion.
I know the standard of intelligence on this channel isn't high. But come on, guys, six seconds on Google yields this. If you can hire someone to film and someone to ask questions, you can afford a six second Google search.
Err i think legally and definitionally it counts as a religion, they just aren't theistic. Don't they fall under a religious tax exemption?
Satanism is a religion. Christians, Jews, and muslims believe in him more than they believe in the myth of jesus. ROTFLMAO!!
@@Nemerson74 It certainly counts as an opinion and a group, which is exactly what religions are.
Even if they don't identify as a religion, people should still be afforded the freedoms of a religion. There's literally no logical reason to discriminate.
@@juangalton999 It isn't about if they should be discriminated against. That's a right at the individual level and has nothing to do with religion or not.
It's about if they should be afforded privileges deemed exclusive to religion, which they self-proclaimed are not.
Anything government funded should not be allowed to demonstrate any religious preference. This violates the First Amendments's establishment clause.
The First Amendment only limits Congress, it says so right in the text. Any other interpretation makes the whole concept of respecting the Constitution invalid. Either way, libraries should absolutely be allowed to forbid Satanists and allow Christians, and not the other way around. It turns out it’s good to show prejudice to evil, and give preference to what is good, especially when that good thing is literally what our entire civilization was based on, and that bad thing exists purely to oppose what our civilization is based on.
@@Brother_Piner Publicly funded libraries should not "encourage" any particular viewpoint.
Libraries exist to provide information from all viewpoints. This then allows the individual to decide what is good and what is evil - which may, or may not, agree with your conclusion.
There are those who believe that to suggest the Earth is a globe and is not the center of the universe which was created in 6 days 6 thousand years ago is "evil."
Private libraries can do as they please.
This is why you dont follow morons; theyll lead you astray
If library is open for one, it is open for all
Trump...lol
Cause your guy is doing such a great job....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
@@TraceVandal voting only gives you the illusion of choice.
@@danieltrottier8599 Yet you feel the need to bash one candidate over another....Weird. Almost like you're, CHOOSING SIDES????
@TraceVandal if you don't believe me just pic up a history book.
"lol, a guy who's attacked by my precious establishment and media drones.. you'd be silly to support him lol!!!" 🤤 - You
Some things should be limited if it can csuse evil practices shouldnt be able to hold a "harm a human event"
Of course Satanists shouldn't be allowed to use public spaces. When the freedom of religion clause was written, religion meant the Christian religion. That could easily be expanded to the Abrahamic religions ("people of the book") and whatever other religions or philosophies we want, but that isn't carte-blanche for anyone who wants to do anything with anyone to do whatever they want in public spaces. If my religion allows me to cut off the fingers of my third wife because she lost my 15th child through miscarriage, I shouldn't be "allowed" to do that because it's my religion.
What rights are satanists violating?
Now, ask leftists 😭
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REEEERRRRRRRRRHRHRHHAHAHAHAHAHAHARARRERRRR
REEE
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R
EEEERRE
REEEEEEEREEEEEEE
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Do you think it would be ok if KKK members wanted to host a book reading at the public library?
😡
Lots of leftists here. You mean "wokes".
Leftist here. Eh, as long as they’re chill, I’m chill.
You will not hear the same answers when you interview a leftist 😂😂😂