Which RB Block is Best? Mythbusted with Facts and Data!
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- In our first issue of our new series called "Platinum Tech" we compare Nissan's RB blocks t see which one is best and why. No more internet rumours or myths. Just measurable data and facts
- Авто та транспорт
Nothing hurts more than being soft and not enough thickness. Story of my life...
simp
Hope one day you can get that choad you've always wanted.
jon doe except another 2jz!
@@nobodyhere4860 ford barra will eat the 2jz
@@j.e.d.8065 your absolutely right, but nothing better than a Ford doesn't quite have the same ring to it!
Best informational video to come out on rb's since ever
Thank you! we are trying to make a difference, appreciate the comment :)
I wouldn't take it as gospel
At least since we did a similar test. LOL. DSPORT Here's what we found www.dsportmag.com/the-tech/rb26dett-building-blocks-which-rb26dett-block-is-right-for-you/
@@dsport subed
@@hermanurriola138 just a thought. Would you be able to do a test on what kind of hardness other metals and materials test at. I feel like alot of people do not understand that a "270" on your hardness scale doesnt mean it's as hard as diamonds and wont be cracking like glass (I'm exaggerating but you get the point).
As a result alot of keyboard warriors (of which I'm sure you've already seen) may start to understand the scope of the information they've read on the internet. Once again. Thanks for sharing. I dont think most people realise just how much time and effort you've put Into testing
Thank you Herman for taking the initiative to do something like this! Platinum is at the cutting edge of RB development
Thanks man :)
Man you guys have the best videos on RB’s and GTR’s hands down. I really appreciate all the content also this video helped a lot thanks for all the knowledge! Hope u do a video on 26 vs 25 heads
Thats cool. Over priced N1 block is the same as a RB25 block. Must piss people off.
Not exactly. It's more about the material make-up for the N1 which they didn't cover in depth. Heat resistance, heat soak, and heat distribution are different for N1 in some ways. But they didn't cover real-world applications.
No it didn’t. Unless those people are very gullible. N1s have been proven for years on race and streets, and those are facts. Agree with Best Lee Sin NA, they did missed some crucial points here.
The N1 is supposed to be the oil leak improvement together with newer material. Dunno about the details though...
Na, metallurgy, manufacturing quality control and the matching rotating assembly means the arbee’s sporting these things from factory can handle some pretty impressive power levels and the sort of power delivery you want for (narrator says exactly what im about to type lol) sport street/circut racing. And can handle the physical demands of the repeated high stress life that a race car engine is subjected too, and needs to be able to tolerate over a decent amount of time. A harder/brittle block just wont compare over the span of a championship season. Unless its too over engineered- carrying too much unnecessary mass around with you.
The block is just a link in the chain. If you get the formula wrong cause your 1000hp+ build requires components much heavier and with much higher losses, then yea, ya prob wasting monies better spent elsewhere. Horses for courses
Did you even watch the video or know anything about either of those cars?!?
Unless you are a credentialed Engineering or you have real experience testing and building competition engines, you should reserve tyour OPINIONS. Herman did a very solid test. Higher hardness means higher compression strength! No way to argue that! His testing shows which block will have the highest compressive strength in the cylinders. That was the intent of his testing. As correctly noted by a slew of Nismo fan boys and self-proclaimed engineers, high hardness also comes with a tradeoff in toughness and tensile strength. Parts of the block under tension MAYBE more subject to failure IF the stress and strain in tension exceeds the mechanical properties of the materials. Why do more 05U blocks crack than N1 blocks? If they are higher in hardness there are more brittle and subject to impact. However, unless you drop a valve in the cylinder or a piece of porcelain off your spark plug, impact resistance is never the issue. Nine times out of ten, engine failure occurs because of bad tuning, low-quality machine work and using crappy parts. Why would an OEM not make the best parts possible? One word: BUDGET! The aftermarket can afford to have a much higher cost per unit than the OEMs. I've built more high-power RB engines in the States than anyone. I'm also a credentialed Mechanical Engineer. www.dsportmag.com/the-cars/the-worlds-most-streetable-8-second-nissan-r33-gt-r-project-rh8/
well said, and yes 05U's break more often than N1's because there are 1000 times more of them out there, we have broken plenty of N1's, that's actually why we set out to work out what makes a block better...
Thanks Dsport
@@hermanurriola138 No need to thank us. you did a great test. Haven't used one of those portable hardness testers, but now I'm thinking of getting one. We have the Rockwell tested but it's great having some non-destructive testing devices. We use a special portable hardness tester (for aluminum) on all of the cylinder heads that we do to identify potentially soft heads. We've saved customers thousands of dollars by not having them invest in a soft cylinder head. If you get a chance, try making it out to IDRC's The Shootout presented by Buschur Racing in August of 2019. We'll have a few of our builds there. Hopefully, one of them will be my R33 GT-R. Something is not happy over 1,500 flywheel horsepower right now. Not sure if blocks are twisting, cranks are bending or we are beyond wet-sump oiling capabilities. Looking forward to see your next video on demonstrating block twist.
Indeed, a simple device to show you a difference that does not take a long time to do = good for the camera.
I like how you think someone needs to be an engineering grad to be able to speak you're an elitist pleb that probably isn't one.
It's funny some of the issues you come across when building big hp motors out of 20+yr old blocks and cylinder heads with unknown histories. I've used a head on my RB30 that had gone soft and it caused the head to lift under boost as the head stud washer recessed into the head over time. A very unusual problem to come across, was a result of welding the crack that forms under the cam tunnel when an air pocket in the cooling system had caused localised hot spots. Some people do better jobs than others when it comes to repairing cracked heads... 😰
This man has broken so many hearts.
This was just flawless. I appreciate when guys put in work like this for the culture
Awesome video guys👍 Nothing beats facts and scientific testing. You are unquestionable the best resource for Skyline and RB content on UA-cam😀
man, this is a heartbreaker.. i was thinking i had something special with my '23U' but Herman's tests prove it to be no better than a garden variety '05U' and neither one of these are any less than an N1.. they're all the same after all. wow!
This channel is the holy grail for English speaking rb nerds. You guys are doing God’s work
Herman, thank you so much for taking the time to do all these testings and sharing it with us. Your video definitely helps clarify a ton of misinformation and rumors that for decades have been floating around, but there's nothing better than to prove with empirical data the real science behind it all.
One question that I've always had, is have you ever compared the RB25DE, vs RB25DET RWD vs RB25DET AWD blocks head to head? Maybe the RB25DE & RB25DET RWD blocks are identical, however I've always wondered if the RB25DET AWD is beefier compared to the RWD.
Herman I really do appreciate all your hard efforts in going above & beyond for all this information.
That 66.6 kilo block though....
The Devil's Heart.
Lol i was thinking the same thing.
thankyou , there is nothing i appreciate more then 100% real data. keep up the good work gentlemen.
Great video Andrew and thanks Herman for taking the time to do it.
I would have really liked to know how the rb20det faired against the rest.
Thanks again.
Thanks for clearing the myths in the internet cause forums are a joke. 👌
Kenny_Fa5 exactly brother
Amen
Incredible info, testing parameters, and results.
The sonic testing part was BADASS! Definitely haven't seen many of these tests done and posted on UA-cam.
I love GTRs and one day I will get one. I learned so much in this video than I have ever since i heard about a GTR. Great job guys awesome video.
Great video guys 👍
Thank you guys! Was looking for solid info for sooo long!
Great content... killing it as usual, thanks guys!
Rb30/25 💪
Clutch Kick Junkies Ayyyyy CKJ gang
Thank you for all that work and sharing.
I'm guessing there are going to be quite alot of n1 blocks for sale real soon :D
Thanks for taking the time and effort for making this vid MotiveDVD!
Especially at 7K
OnkelSvenne yep, I’ve got one for sale...7,001 firm.
Buy a Platinum brace instead. That is what this video is really all about. Did you not see subtle reminders through out the video? Was done in a clever way.
Another conspiracy theorist
not really. this video won't get popularized like that.
What an awesome video, I love all RBs 👍🏻 thanks Herman and Andrew for a killer vid with bulk facts 🍻
Thanks buddy, and welcome
Awesome information especially for us in the US. Who are just getting real deal access to these blocks nowadays
Very interesting thanks for posting.
Fantastic video thank you so much for the information greatly appreciated
Really informative video. I learned heaps. I hope to see more!
Cool video! Wish they tested the RB20. Wonder if it shares the same casting as the other engines. The 78mm bore would be the one with thicker walls
Hi. Can you help me? I need information about pistons rb20det.
@@user-zi9zv9kx3s ya what u need?
very informative video, thanks for sharing.
26/30 combo 👌🏻
Very educational, good work!
Great video explaining great facts and testing methodology. I've never knew that could be a way to test engine blocks... rb30 ftw
Enjoyed the presentation, thanks.
Would you consider showing the same test for multiple varieties of Japanese motors? I would like to see the VG And VQ motors tested, the 4g motors and maybe compare them against the Honda motors. EJ motors would be a great video too. This video put a bunch of keyboard warriors in their places. Great job guys. I love it.
Great video. Thank you.
Great info. Am a fanboy of any iron block straight 6. A good balanced and strong by nature motor.
Thank you very much for this video
This needs at least a million views
I appreciate your search & time you guys put in, great job, how about a quick comparison with 2jz?
Being edited right now
Mad respect for this man. ( coming from a welder who does ndi tests on welds with powder, xray, and magnets) however i was kinda confused about the test of the rd 28 block considering the results you got on hardness. I agree that the resizing the bore on the RD probably isnt the best idea but everyone is free to do what they want. Cheers mate hope to see more videos from you
I think it is more about the offset of the notes if you were to review to 3.0litre pistons.
Due to being weaker block material, the thinner wall would suffer compaired to the 3.0L with it's stronger block material
Actual facts! This is perfect! Keep it up mate!
Incredible content guys!
Awesome video! Learned heaps of new stuff. Cheers👌
Fantastic video, one of your best
Great videos mate tons of knowledge mate good on you!
amazing and very informative vid!!
Thanks so much for the video. Never thought of using Sonic testers to test cylinder thickness.
By any chance have you tested the 1uz block at all. It's rumored to have not enough meat to over bore much. Wondering how true this is.
GREAT INFO!!!!!!!!!!
Outstanding video sir! Really enjoyed learning valuable information, with a good morning coffee :)
Excellent testing but it is worth noting the hardness might change over time and heat cycling. it wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest the newer N1 blocks might be softer as a result of the virgin steel and lack of heat cycling, further more the thermal properties of the steel have yet to be tested there may well be a significant change in hardness malleability and tensile strength under various conditions.
Fantastic tech vid. Great work! What sort of money can we expect to pay for a block report like this?
Thankyou heaps for this video Andrew and Herman, got an rb25 block here I’m gonna throw a 26 head on
Ahh B 30 block with an ahh b 26 head
ONLY if its an ET block. The E block is weak, but you can fix that of course. But the turbo rods are way stronger. Quite a rare engine now. The gearbox was really strong too.
What an interesting vid. Well done Andrew
Super valuable info. Bravo
Bloody hell i love this so much i have learnt so much
JP Vlogs do not believe everything they tell you. They want to sell products Motive are getting paid for it.
🤔 I used to think the rb26 would be best to build but now I would actually build a rb25 an just pick up a spare long block when the 800 horsepurs escape all over the engine bay 😂
Mo power baby 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
@Herman Urriola can you say from your experience with rb blocks if a block that may be too thin in a particular cylinder bore can still be used in high power build successfully if the block is completely cement filled. Also is there any benifit to a street driven build going with a half filled block or do you prefer a fully filled block instead with oil cooler larger capacity sump etc. seeing that most of the cylinder pressure is at the top half of the block.
I am interested in replacing the Rb25det in my GTS with a Rb26dett, de-stroked to 2.5L, keeping the 26 head and possibly the low mount twin turbo setup. The aim is to build a good time trial / targa car so pwr only needs to be around 280kw - 320kw with the emphasis instead on mid range throttle response and spool time (can already hear ppl saying “well keep the 26 displacement”)
Can’t find any info on destroking a 26 to 25
Awesome learning here
And the deck on an after market sbc is always around 12mm to 13mm or 1/2 inch... so good!!
@Herman Urriola Making a guess, N1 block may have been blueprinted from a normal block, good for circuit racing where big big power is not the ultimate goal. How they been compared against other blocks for total geometric state of the block?
Love these guys. But there are some points missed here and not explained much about the already tried and tested N1 blocks. One example is its metallurgy. I saw a detailed comparo years ago on a JDM magazine, it covered its metal contents, on different temps. also. If I could just only find it again.
Would be awesome to see a billet block thrown in the mix just too see another comparison!
Very good video
what would be interesting would be to manufacture a billet rb20 block to solve the breakage problem and take the rb20det engines to 1000-1200 horsepower, being the engine block reliable and strong,burn less fuel and at the same time make it a powerful engine, optimal for driving on public roads.
I'd love to see this type of video about the SR20.
SR20DET comparison like this including RNN14 54C Version would be great...
Very interesting stuff.
Awesome video
great video, please, make video about RB motors head head difference. from Russia with love)
well my eyes have been open pretty big with the test done here.
thank you for the insight and busting the myths
The Nismo Omori Factory still sells the RB26 N1 block for engine rebuilds and for customers looking to convert their GTRs to full blown track cars.
but looking at your test seems to be that even the most expensive blocks will still crack if the bore thickness is not up to your standards
now ppl will be grabbing the RB30 and RD28 blocks instead XD
can you guys also do the RB heads as well?
Good video
Awesome video. What about ca18? Have you ever done some?
Excellent video 👌🏻
Really interesting video. I always thought the n1 block was the rb26 to have but according to this it’s weaker? 🤔
Great vid publicly showing what a few of us have been doing, only criticism is the proper thrust face that you really need to worry about is not on the hot side, but on the inlet side, thats where the power stroke force is, never the less nice to show the comparisons between the block designs which i never have known.
Haha Peter, you picked it, realised that after testing as the blocks were all arse about from how I usually test them, we didn't realise till after but it was too late
@@hermanurriola138 Thought so, was probably the pressure of having the camera on you and trying to get it right at the same time, somethings always going to go wrong no matter how hard you try. :) Still , walked away from it learning a fair bit, i never knew the finer differences, great work mate.
@@pt6868 yes i am a little camera shy, and this took around 12 hours or something so we were not going to do it again :) thanks my friend
Funny how most did not pick it up but discuss other little things.
Awesome video!! Would love to have all of Herman’s knowledge!
nice comment thank you, i dont know it all, im still learning, but the information is out there, just got to keep learning it :)
Have you done any comparison with the rb block and nissan tb48 blocks with strength and power apart from the obvious capability differences.
Great info!!
Best course of action on some of those seem like they'd be better candidates for sleeving than even using them as is.
Wonder how the RB20 stacks up compared to all the 25 up to 30 ones
Would be nice if you guys cn do the same video for 4g63 engines
Then the answer would be the vr4 4g63.
can you guys do the 1jz blocks please. Im really intrested to see those results
I wonder if the measuring device is effected when one places the instrument on the object being tested along with their hand just a question?
best vid on RB engines thanks guys
in terms of an offset bore, how do you then center the con rod to the new offset pattern with the cranks having that non offset to it? I'm just confused
Have any shop done the RD28 with RB26 head combo? Have some RD blocks laying around here and would love to know where to get pistons and rod for this
nice vid, wish they included rb20 testing
Rb20 will max out on power long before the block becomes an issue
@@zyoungson215 yea wanted to see how they comp data wise over 25/26/30/28 thickness etc..
Also interested as RB20s are older just like the 30 so maybe it has the same hardness and smaller bores may mean more material
stay tuned. its coming
@@MotiveVideo great!
Great insight
Can anyone tell me.
If I chose to use the RD28 block.
And kept the factory diameter pistons.
But put better pistons in for petrol performance use.
Will an RB25 (after head stud holes bores to suit 12mm) or RB30 Head bolt on after the coolant and oil gallery mods?
I'm asking is there an issue with the Combustion chamber overlap?
Thanks in advance
Is that 256 the natural frequency (first or second modal) we are reading on that device? And if yes, how we do relate it to an ultimate tensile strength?
What about cryo treatment on the this blocks? Ik the newer blocks are worse but would crudo treatment help those get close enough to the older blocks? Would it even help the older blocks to get cryo treated? What about wpc treating them? Would that help in anyway with the oiling?
Alright so we see that they have casting irregularities, would darton sleeving them be able to fix some of that and make the engine “stronger” in the sense that it has better material for the cylinder walls and now has better thickness so as to help avoid the cracks in the cylinder walls? Also the BRAND NEW rb26 blocks, how do those compre va the older blocks? I would imagine same issues but maybe more brittle as they might use different blend compared to the originals?
Can yall test the new heritage blocks they just introduced to see if the new castings are better?
Great video!
Interesting video, RD2.8 is that a diesel block?