@@EthanWinter- I spent the first year just learning how to build them and then tune them with beta flight, I now own four quads. I have the original tiny hawk ,the tiny hawk 2, the tiny hawk race and I have a 5 inch quad as well. A xilo phreakstyle with a GoPro. This hobby has given me a new lease on life. I thank you all.
You can easily make that dream a reality if you were to provide as much or even more value then our good friend here Joshua. And your as sure as gravity to achieve whatever it is you give your energy when producing real value for people often a lot of people!
@@253SB3ST I’m gathering my puzzle pieces… working on it. Full time worker and softball dad lol. Travel softball dad if you know what I mean lol. Thank you man. It’s these pushes that will ultimately allow me to follow said dreams. Thank you. If you want to sub you can follow the journey.
Some really cool ideas I would have never thought of. In my experience with a lot of antennas if you mount them like that you will get awful signal. I mean, if you hover facing away you are literally in the "blind spot" (not sure of the scientific term.) I do it exactly like that but then bend the antenna a little upwards and it got me at least 2x range. Just a thought
For receiver antennas I use the tubes from spray cans. If the receiver antennas are thin they’ll slide through the tube under the shrink wrap and it makes it easier to replace the zip tie if it breaks in a crash. Hope that helps, tony
This was super helpful! I wasn’t sure if the way I mounted my antennas was optimal but now I know that it is. To remedy the issue you talked about around 6:10 , you could just bend the antenna up about 45 degrees so that it pokes out a bit more
So many ways to mount them. You got remember if you change the orientation of the transmitter antenna you can get better range. If your mounting them in a L shape you should really use the tuned crossfire Antenna as it matches the polarisation. If you use the immortal antenna just use the Diamond or T shape antenna so you can match the polarisation .
great video, thanks 👍Something I always do is place some foam between the SMA and the carbon frame before zippy tying, I have had some interference from this in the past.
Likewise. Grounding the SMA connector on the carbon can cause video interference. I experienced this with a TBS Unify on a recent build and it took a while to debug. As soon as I insulated the SMA connector using shrink tube, my FPV video was perfect. So my question is this ... why do TBS and all other VTX suppliers provide non-insulated SMA connectors, or at a minimum give guidance to insulate against the carbon frame? Does an insulated SMA even exist?
I use the same for vTX on the 5" build and on my tinywhoop. Not the same on the 3", on that one I use the lumineer axii you've shown, and on top, but with a 45 degree SMA. The other day, that took a goal pole I didn't realize that after the crash and went home. Didn't fly for two weeks and then realised the antenna was missing. I went back to the park where I crashed, and found it looking brand new. Replaced the broken 45 degree adapter and flew it again
I recently came to most of these conclusions also, except I’ve put a downward bend on my antenna, so that the only way I’m really not going to have line-of-site is while inverted. Which is usually very brief. And, yeah, that balance of what part should give and what should be flexible is what’s enabled me to keep a quad in service long enough to that I can learn some of your freestyle moves. Finally.
Was just pondering this same issue on a micro today, as my reception was suffering on the arms. I almost did the side zip ties, like you showed going from back arms forward, but ended up going towards the back, making an x. On an R-XSR, the reception is great. I also took the dipole from the arm (horizontal) and went on top ( vertical) and the range difference on 25mw was insane. Zip tie up top with heat shrink over it. Crashed a bunch and it's holding on perfect.
This is the ONLY way I mount my receiver antennae. Thanks JB for the informative video as always. I for sure learned something today regarding the T antennae.
Thanks for the video, really appreciate it. Pretty sure this is partly in response to the video I sent you where I somehow fried my FC through the antenna pig-tail mounted vertically to the frame. I had crashed a few times on that antenna and it may have been faulty because of that. I definitely made all of the mounting mistakes you just covered. Guess I have some work to do when the new FC gets here. I am also going to be insulating the pigtail as some people in the comments have suggested (so that I don't inadvertently create another closed loop between it and other electronics or cause interference).
Such an awesome topic Joshua! I remember Stinger Swarm and Steele "discussing" these concepts in the past, but your explanation really takes this to a whole new level. Thanks for everything you do.
Throw an axii on the chameleon and it should work just like the catalyst machine works does, but agree the coax taking the brunt of the force is the most durable method hands down! Great vid!
Nice review Josh. I’m building a new reverb and I wanted to experiment with antenna placements. I agree with your assessment on vTX placement sticking straight up on the top deck; you always break it during crashes. On my hawk 5 I’ve sheared the vTX antenna sticking straight up many a times. Not worth replacing a $20 antenna each time.
I like the extra long foxeer antennas. I'm a long ranger and like the radiation emitter (antenna) away from the noise of the motors/ESCs. It comes out the back and curves upward at a 45 degree angle for best reception during normal flight. I've also de-pinned my vtx and direct soldered my antenna and noticed an increase in signal strength. That requires taking a soldering iron to the field in case the joint gets broken. Refer to a Bardwell video on depinning the VTX.
I mounted my aomway cloverleaf on a 45 degree angle. From mmcx pigtail (ziptied in 3 places) up through the bottom plate into the sma. Sma is mounted on foam and ziptied. Then I ziptied half way up the stem of the antenna, on to the top plate (zip tie loop + ziptie). Ziptie!.
For my receiver I use one of those antenna mount plastic thingies I found on AliExpress or some other. It’s a plastic little bracket with plastic tubes you can mount in any orientation and almost any spot on the quad while keeping that “perfect” 90° angle. (2.4 gHz).
I love how you mount your antennas except that I mount mine from the front arms pointed to the rear of the quad. That way the antennas can’t get caught in tree scraggle as you fly forward. I bought some longer 3dbi 2.4 antennas with the ipex connector that most receivers use and I have even soldered them to the receivers directly.
Horizontal L for the crossfire antenna is a great idea, I learned something today, again! I do the vertical L on my quads but I don’t like how the lower part of the L is too close to the vtx antenna, which is probably not good. Thanks anyway !
On your last video you showed how to clean motor. Awesome. I just opened my motor and found I have a cracked magnetic. Is motor shot; or can I fix it. I am new to drone flying, but I love it. Trying to get better. Harder than it looks. However, still fly everyday. Morning & evening. Anyway; can you let me know what you think about my motor
I think I mount my antenna almost exactly the same way, I've found the video antenna straight out the back zip tied to the top plate is the most durable way to do it also, but with the Rooster I use the long range mounting option with a stubby AXII attached. I've tried lots of different ways to mount my RX antennas and the and zip tie on the arms is my favourite, I like to use a slightly thicker zip tie to keep it more rigid and if I reverse my props I have them pointing backwards which I think might even be a little bit better for range. I wish I knew this when I first started flying, it would have saved me a lot of damaged antennas.
This really helped me out a lot! I really like your videos and I always learn something just like you say in the intro. Also, I know that you don't do much long range stuff now but I think it looks really cool and I would be interested to see you get into it more and do some video teaching us what you've learned and stuff like that. Maybe a "Long range for mini quad pilots" video or something like that would be cool. I have a lot of cool long range spots near me but I just haven't been sure how to go about getting into long range to fly them from just flying pretty short range quads. Anyways, keep up the great work
Very useful video. Noticed a lot of groundloops through SMA connector there... well, I hope you have some kind of insulation between SMA connectors and carbon. Should have. Also should be mentioned that VTX antennas with SMA connectors must have hardening tube over cable connection to SMA connector. Otherwise cable will break off after some crashes (happened with me too). Antennas without connector hardening are suitable only for mounting in places without stress on connector - on googles for example. Receiver antennas on top mostly become chopped on crashes when they bend down into props pushed by tree branches and other things where you crashed in. In my quads they was relocated on arms more than a year ago - after viewing your older videos :) Never chopped receiver antennas by props anymore. Thanks!
Very nice with all the different examples you gave ✌ I run one kwad with L-shape in the back and another with antennas on the arms pointing backwards, both with decent range on X4R 😊
Watched yesterday, thought maybe it would be good to change pos of my antennas. Today chrashed and shredded both of the receiver. So now i'm ready to change them 😅
This was really helpful...you know what else would be massively helpful? The next time you have to clean a motor with a c-clip, it would be awesome if you made a video on the best way to get those stupid things on and off without destroying them or losing them. I can’t seem to do either...thx man, this stuff is really useful.
Ive had crossfire failsafe on me many times before i even come close to losing video signal. Youve got to remember that we also use high gain patches on our goggles and the situation in which you are flying affect how far each frequency travels or how well its received
Josh I got a problem with tying off my pigtail and antenna against the carbon fiber... every time I do that I get crap in the video and when I put something between the sma connector and the metal parts of my antenna and the frame it goes away till a new problem shows up... I use heat shrink, or tape of some sort .. but good video is a sore spot with me I never have good video for very long... before something acts up. Thanks Randy
These dilemmas are exactly why I bought an Ender 3 and a couple rolls of filament. My Rooster was the straw...You can easily design anything you need for free on TinkerCad. I like the 45 angle out the back for vtx and receiver antenna at the same angle but 90 apart. I still had receiver antenna getting sucked into the props until i started using the tubes.
What I never understood is why its not a default to run antennae diversity on freestyle quads were its expected that the aircraft with rotate on all axies. Take 2.4GHz ELRS, were you can run two T antennae, orient one horizontally on the nose or tail and one smaller one mounted vertically (use a stand-off to mount). That way if you lose signal quality on your horizontal it can fail over to the vertical. Steele has a good video as well on making an 'immortal L' which achieves a similar thing with one antenna.
so Joshua, I have crashed many times with old mounting and bent my antenna many time but never broke it. I watched this vid and changed my mounting of my antenna just as you suggested and wouldn't you know it the very first time I crashed it broke the pigtail right in half replaced the pigtail and boy the next crash it broke the pigtail again. Thanks and I am not blaming you but I think I will go back to my old way of mounting.
JB You should make a signature edition battery pack that would let you use 18650 batteries and discharge them down to at least 3.2v per cell without getting low battery warnings.
Something I'm curious about - the angle of the mounted VTX antenna. You're showing a lot of VTX antennas that stick straight out the back, is that preferable for freestyle compared to sticking out at a 45 degree tilt? Which I guess a tilt would be better for racing because you're not doing lots of big loops/flips/rolls etc.
Maybe but then the antenna should be mounted at 45 degres but not bent. If it’s just bent, it often rotates in a crash and goes straight for the props.
In short distances for racing angle doesn't matter. Otherwise bend antenna up enough to stick it out from arms. It will still be safe enough. Completely straight antenna may have less range due to radiation "bubble" form which usually is ecliptic, not round and for straight antenna become partially shielded by arms and other frame parts.
To make the VTX style better IMO, use a RAPSTRAP first. It will give the antenna a little give and then use two small zipties over the rapstrap to lock it in.
The receiver-antennas on the rear-arms looks like hooks waiting for branches and twigs. We do fly usually forwards, aren't we ? So what i do is to mount the receiver-antennas on the front arms looking back. For the vtx-antenna range is my absolute 1st concern because with the legal 25mW just two tight trees in between let me see nothing but static. Here i prefer the more vulnerable vertical mount. Replacing one 10$-antenna a month is just like changing props.
Another great video! As BoBo said below, I try to insulate the SMA from the carbon of the frame, a piece of electrical tape or the like, it would help with electrical inference. Thank you
Another huge advanatge when mounting the antennas likewise on the arms is, when working on the quad and removing the topplate you finally have nothing attached to same, which is pretty annoying in my opinion. The VTX antenna can usually be just unplugged.
I just learned the hard way that mounting antennas ( 2 part antennas like in flysky) near the flight controller can cause interference failsafing your quad.
Back to old crap, I have trying to set up a wizard 220 after updating controller, but receiver (dsm) won't failsafe but I've kind of set failsafe in the controller but what has blown my mind is Betaflight giving red flag (arm) mode and a notification box informing me that failsafe wasn't set. Did I miss the vlog about more modern Betaflight.
I think the L configuration is best on 3 inch or smaller, with T vertical you cant land properly and when i mount it horizontally and get terrible drops in RSSI when turning 90 degree left or right. I was actually interested in an Immortal-T to replace my dipole R9 antenna but after flying today with that horizontal T-style under the arms i think my main problem is facing my quad sideways, forwards and back it shoots back to 99% mostly. But isnt L-shape always better for freestyle pilots since you move around all axis and with T-Style you'll always have a deadspot somewhere when you are facing the antenna-ends.
Luv your videos, thanks for the knowledge. Have you thought of reviews on 3D printers.....what to look for......etc......or even a panel discussion video on what’s what..... thanks
I think the real answer here is to get away from carbon fiber. I'm just starting to get into quads. I bought my first fairly typical carbon frame. But definitely the next quad I build will be fiber glass. Carbon is much lighter and much stronger than fiberglass, but it's five to seven times more expensive (a lot of people don't realize how cheap fiberglass actually is). I think a good compromise is to add about 50% to your frame's weight, achieve 80% of the strength and stiffness, but have it cost much less. A carbon frame might weigh 100g and cost $50. A slightly less durable glass frame would weigh about 150g but cost only $12. The big value add, in my opinion, is that now you can put your antennae inside, and achieve an extremely protected sleek build.
Hey josh. Do you think with the success of 3” flight characteristics and the proven success of 5”........a 160mm microlight frame built to carry huge 2206 motors but with 4” props would just win the power to weight ratio and give us the best of what current tech can provide?
I mount my antennas as you do but I also put some electrical tape/foam tape between the antenna and the carbon fibre. As carbon fibre is a bit conductive I think insulation there might be an idea. But maybe it doesn’t matter :P
I use Steeles method when he was on FrSky.. I use an XSR, No failsafes in over a year and no chopped antennas EVER.. ImpulseRC provides great antenna tubes
Basically using the back 2 standoff's in a vertical and horizontal configuration to get best polarization. Probably easiest to link you to this: ua-cam.com/video/_wJCcU-yMGU/v-deo.html
I am a little slow watching this video, but have a question for you anyways. Is it true that no signal really comes out the bottom of the video antenna, makes sort of a dome shape? Or maybe it makes more like a sphere? Anyways, if it is a dome shape and you are flying back towards yourself, haven't you now got some of the quad/battery/gopro between you and the quad along with the weakest signal from the antenna? I said a lot, but I'm sure you understand what I'm asking. Thanks for what you do, I appreciate it!
@@JoshuaBardwell awesome thanks, I was flying the freestyle quad the way you showed to put the antennas in the video, just flipped one to standing up. Expect to destroy it quickly that way and end up back the way you showed
Those who are thinking that the best theoretical antenna and placement matter should consider how it will perform after it gets mangled in transit, flight and crashes, not to mention deformed by airflow, acceleration and vibration. Unless you use a high-speed camera to study your antenna while it is in flight you really have no idea what shape it is in under actual use. Even more strange to me is that some of those who insist on transmitter antenna optimization seem to ignore the receiving antenna. If you are actually having range issues (as opposed to interference issues), mounting a J Pole (google it) antenna on a backpack frame so it is just above your head will probably do more good than all the tweaking with the transmit antenna you could ever do, and you can still move if you find yourself in a dead spot. If you are having interference issues the only antenna that will help is a directional antenna, otherwise it is all down to your receiver's selectivity (particularly alternate and adjacent channel rejection) and the robustness of your encoding/decoding scheme. Note that racers and freestylers usually use encoding schemes that are more focused on latency than on robust error correction.
Yes , I have found the same thing, wish I had seen this month's ago. Would have saved a bunch of antennas. H frames seem to keep the props farther away. Arris v2 frame is the one I have.
just get a u.fl antenna, zip it with a single tie and let that dangle out the back, i guess that would work nicely as well, because the wire isn't as thick and stiff
0 hey Josh another great vid, but what do you think about antennas that don't have SMA? I'm talking about antennas that are MMCX, I think, but they just come right off of the VTX and kind of just have a long coaxial. I'm confused about what to do I think why have the SMA it's just another weak point is it not?
I've been advocating the horizontal L for Crossfire on the Chameleon since Micro TX came out using the old skool Chameleon's antenna tube plate. Unfortunately that plate wont work on the Rooster/Ti Chameleon as the spacing for the standoff's changed. Other wise Immortal T out the back on TPU or on an arm. Ime trying thr front arm on . my most recent build for better reception on the way home. I always insulate my SMA connector from the frame. Not doing so can cause video quality issues.
Mm I have the tbs unify TPlate bolted onto the rooster frame, are you saying that the ground from that touching the frame causes bad signal. If so then insulating using shrink wrap or something like it can clean it?
I mounted my receiver antennas like this after seeing one of your videos and on the very next flight I crashed into a tree, causing both antennas to bend up into the props, chopping them clean off. Guess it was just bad luck... From now on I heatshrink a metal wire on top of the zip tie and the antenna below, hoping the prop will just glide off.
On second thought, that's a really bad idea as it certainly interferes with the transmission... I've got some thin glass fibre tubes lying around, I'll try to stick the antennas through one of those.
Hi Joshua much respect! I have been following you vids on the Wizzard x220s and wondered if you could help, on the Wizzards fpv antenna the sma mount on the vtx has an angle bracket if I remove it would the antenna connect to the vtx like in this vid? Keep up the good work. I learnt something today!
Joshua, I’m a big fan on using small zip ties for mount lots of items on flying models, not just antenna. Didn’t hear you say this exactly (maybe I missed it) so to summarize what you are describing is the engineering philosophy that, during a crash, it’s assumed that things break and it’s cheaper and easier to repair if you have large, high leverage or heavy parts break free instead of breaking the part itself or the frame because the mount is stronger than the part or the frame. Anyhow, good advice. I’m surprised, given your Wi-Fi engineering background, at your advice that it’s ok not to be much concerned about antenna orientation. I know you’re a pragmatist given your engineering background and I respect you advice on most things but this is one instance I can’t agree with you on, especially when it comes to the 5.8ghz band most of us use for our video links. The circularly polarized antenna that almost everyone uses has a fairly well defined donut RF pattern perpendicularly to the coax feedline. If the antenna is mounted so it’s mostly vertical you’ll have strong transmission signal emanating from the antenna 360 degrees around it horizontally with an 45 degree or so vertical width. However, the signal strength falls off rapidly towards the top and bottom (again, imagine a donut). If the antenna is mounted horizontally the donut will then be vertical and the signal will remain just as strong to the sides within a narrow range however the signal will drop off from 3 and 10 dB or more to the rear of the ship and even more to the front. That’s like reducing the vtx power by half to 1/8th or less or from say 500mw to 60mw or 250mw to 30mw. Over clear line of sight that may not make a difference for the distances you fly and for racing it may make little difference. However for freestyle or a cinedrone, what happens when you’re 50 or 100m out and you go behind a tree with lots of leaves or worse, behind a building or a wall? There is a high probability that you’ll loose your video for a few seconds and maybe crash. Yes, the drone is doing flips and rolls, etc. so “why would it matter?”, you may say. Well, those type of maneuvers are often done with a little altitude and are quick and transitory. Logically, the drone will be close to horizontal most. Of the time in order to stay in the air. Anyway, you’re mounting advice is all good except I strongly recommend that users try to position the vtx antenna so that it’s vertical or nearly so in forward flight. It won’t make much difference in survivability, if any, and it’s more than like to prevent a crash in the first place due to lost video signal. Here’s a video a guy makes antenna with some good graphics that demonstrate what I’m writing about. ua-cam.com/video/aftijOUc2jM/v-deo.html Thanks for all your hard work and great videos!l
Is it possible to use 2 video transmitter antennas, just like the 2 radio receiver antennas? For example one VTX antenna could be on the left side of the quad, the other on the right.
Thank you for a another informative and helpful vid. One question, does it matter if thebreceiver antenna is facing forward or backward mounted to the frame arm? I have them mounted on the arms with zip ties backward but thought I would loose range if facing forward like in your vid. Thanks.
Good vid. I use ufl axii and just have them out the back similar to the smooth operater. As far as quad rx antennae go, how would you mount your long range antennae if you are using a R9Slim+? That receiver has 2 antennae and I got one with 2 immortal T and plan on using for a long range cruiser. Would it be good to mount them on opposite arms or or better to use one horizontally and one in an L shape like you have vertically. I am trying to maximize range for mountain flying using the R9M that goes up to 1W 900mhz. Side note; What motors are those on the qavr? The gold and purple ones, look sweet.
I was just wondering if it would be beneficial to use both orientation styles since I will have the 2 antennae. I was thinking maybe if I use the vertical orientation like Josh has on the qavr as well as horizontal out on the arm it will give me more robust coverage than just the one antenna out on the arm or vertical L in the back. I did not think it over much on how I would place 2 of these antennae prior to buying the slim+.
![☀ Дешевый способ улучшить FPV сигнал [FPV RX Boost]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bmQHqtIDeqo/mqdefault.jpg)
oh how i wish i could just reach down and pull up a new quad every time lol... ahhh to dream...
Its been two years, have you obtain unlimitted access to le drones of thine dreams yet?
@@EthanWinter- I spent the first year just learning how to build them and then tune them with beta flight, I now own four quads. I have the original tiny hawk ,the tiny hawk 2, the tiny hawk race and I have a 5 inch quad as well. A xilo phreakstyle with a GoPro. This hobby has given me a new lease on life. I thank you all.
@@johnking975 It did it for me too.
You can easily make that dream a reality if you were to provide as much or even more value then our good friend here Joshua. And your as sure as gravity to achieve whatever it is you give your energy when producing real value for people often a lot of people!
@@253SB3ST I’m gathering my puzzle pieces… working on it. Full time worker and softball dad lol. Travel softball dad if you know what I mean lol. Thank you man. It’s these pushes that will ultimately allow me to follow said dreams. Thank you. If you want to sub you can follow the journey.
I'm not a racer that has 17 quads to bring with me. JB then proceeds to show us literally 17 quads 😂
Some really cool ideas I would have never thought of. In my experience with a lot of antennas if you mount them like that you will get awful signal. I mean, if you hover facing away you are literally in the "blind spot" (not sure of the scientific term.) I do it exactly like that but then bend the antenna a little upwards and it got me at least 2x range. Just a thought
For receiver antennas I use the tubes from spray cans. If the receiver antennas are thin they’ll slide through the tube under the shrink wrap and it makes it easier to replace the zip tie if it breaks in a crash. Hope that helps, tony
Appreciate the tip Tony
This was super helpful! I wasn’t sure if the way I mounted my antennas was optimal but now I know that it is. To remedy the issue you talked about around 6:10 , you could just bend the antenna up about 45 degrees so that it pokes out a bit more
It never holds its angle in my experience.
Joshua Bardwell sigh, if only they made antennas with a natural curve specifically for this purpose
I’m trying to imagine your monstrous pile of quads sitting just off-camera
I legit LOVE that your example drones are as covered in grass clippings and green stains as mine. I don't feel as much like I'm doing it wrong :)
I think.... That shirt is next level. Not only was I blinded by science, I was also dazzled with fashion!
So many ways to mount them. You got remember if you change the orientation of the transmitter antenna you can get better range. If your mounting them in a L shape you should really use the tuned crossfire Antenna as it matches the polarisation. If you use the immortal antenna just use the Diamond or T shape antenna so you can match the polarisation .
great video, thanks 👍Something I always do is place some foam between the SMA and the carbon frame before zippy tying, I have had some interference from this in the past.
Good idea!
Likewise. Grounding the SMA connector on the carbon can cause video interference. I experienced this with a TBS Unify on a recent build and it took a while to debug. As soon as I insulated the SMA connector using shrink tube, my FPV video was perfect. So my question is this ... why do TBS and all other VTX suppliers provide non-insulated SMA connectors, or at a minimum give guidance to insulate against the carbon frame? Does an insulated SMA even exist?
Just use shrinking tube over the the whole SMA female + male connection
I do the same
Great ideas here! ThanX dudes! :)
I use the same for vTX on the 5" build and on my tinywhoop. Not the same on the 3", on that one I use the lumineer axii you've shown, and on top, but with a 45 degree SMA. The other day, that took a goal pole I didn't realize that after the crash and went home. Didn't fly for two weeks and then realised the antenna was missing. I went back to the park where I crashed, and found it looking brand new. Replaced the broken 45 degree adapter and flew it again
I recently came to most of these conclusions also, except I’ve put a downward bend on my antenna, so that the only way I’m really not going to have line-of-site is while inverted. Which is usually very brief. And, yeah, that balance of what part should give and what should be flexible is what’s enabled me to keep a quad in service long enough to that I can learn some of your freestyle moves. Finally.
Was just pondering this same issue on a micro today, as my reception was suffering on the arms. I almost did the side zip ties, like you showed going from back arms forward, but ended up going towards the back, making an x. On an R-XSR, the reception is great. I also took the dipole from the arm (horizontal) and went on top ( vertical) and the range difference on 25mw was insane. Zip tie up top with heat shrink over it. Crashed a bunch and it's holding on perfect.
This is the ONLY way I mount my receiver antennae. Thanks JB for the informative video as always. I for sure learned something today regarding the T antennae.
I'm getting the frsky R9m instead of the crossfire , so seeing how you mount the long range antennas is really useful. Thanks JB
I was honestly thinking about this exact thing the other day. You read my mind JB.
Thanks for the video, really appreciate it. Pretty sure this is partly in response to the video I sent you where I somehow fried my FC through the antenna pig-tail mounted vertically to the frame. I had crashed a few times on that antenna and it may have been faulty because of that. I definitely made all of the mounting mistakes you just covered. Guess I have some work to do when the new FC gets here. I am also going to be insulating the pigtail as some people in the comments have suggested (so that I don't inadvertently create another closed loop between it and other electronics or cause interference).
Good content as always. Most consistent and pleasant to watch/ hear UA-camr!
what a welcome video. Im just rebuilding my quads. Now all i need is a good idea for battery leads.
Such an awesome topic Joshua! I remember Stinger Swarm and Steele "discussing" these concepts in the past, but your explanation really takes this to a whole new level. Thanks for everything you do.
Throw an axii on the chameleon and it should work just like the catalyst machine works does, but agree the coax taking the brunt of the force is the most durable method hands down! Great vid!
I swapped to start using BRAIN3D brand TPU. I have literally never broken an antenna since i swapped. It has so much give. It's awesome!
Nice review Josh. I’m building a new reverb and I wanted to experiment with antenna placements. I agree with your assessment on vTX placement sticking straight up on the top deck; you always break it during crashes. On my hawk 5 I’ve sheared the vTX antenna sticking straight up many a times. Not worth replacing a $20 antenna each time.
I like the extra long foxeer antennas. I'm a long ranger and like the radiation emitter (antenna) away from the noise of the motors/ESCs. It comes out the back and curves upward at a 45 degree angle for best reception during normal flight. I've also de-pinned my vtx and direct soldered my antenna and noticed an increase in signal strength. That requires taking a soldering iron to the field in case the joint gets broken. Refer to a Bardwell video on depinning the VTX.
I mounted my aomway cloverleaf on a 45 degree angle. From mmcx pigtail (ziptied in 3 places) up through the bottom plate into the sma. Sma is mounted on foam and ziptied. Then I ziptied half way up the stem of the antenna, on to the top plate (zip tie loop + ziptie).
Ziptie!.
For my receiver I use one of those antenna mount plastic thingies I found on AliExpress or some other. It’s a plastic little bracket with plastic tubes you can mount in any orientation and almost any spot on the quad while keeping that “perfect” 90° angle. (2.4 gHz).
I love how you mount your antennas except that I mount mine from the front arms pointed to the rear of the quad. That way the antennas can’t get caught in tree scraggle as you fly forward. I bought some longer 3dbi 2.4 antennas with the ipex connector that most receivers use and I have even soldered them to the receivers directly.
Great video! I agree durability of antennae and antenna mount to mainboard strength is priority
Horizontal L for the crossfire antenna is a great idea, I learned something today, again! I do the vertical L on my quads but I don’t like how the lower part of the L is too close to the vtx antenna, which is probably not good. Thanks anyway !
On your last video you showed how to clean motor. Awesome. I just opened my motor and found I have a cracked magnetic. Is motor shot; or can I fix it. I am new to drone flying, but I love it. Trying to get better. Harder than it looks. However, still fly everyday. Morning & evening. Anyway; can you let me know what you think about my motor
I think I mount my antenna almost exactly the same way, I've found the video antenna straight out the back zip tied to the top plate is the most durable way to do it also, but with the Rooster I use the long range mounting option with a stubby AXII attached.
I've tried lots of different ways to mount my RX antennas and the and zip tie on the arms is my favourite, I like to use a slightly thicker zip tie to keep it more rigid and if I reverse my props I have them pointing backwards which I think might even be a little bit better for range. I wish I knew this when I first started flying, it would have saved me a lot of damaged antennas.
This really helped me out a lot! I really like your videos and I always learn something just like you say in the intro. Also, I know that you don't do much long range stuff now but I think it looks really cool and I would be interested to see you get into it more and do some video teaching us what you've learned and stuff like that. Maybe a "Long range for mini quad pilots" video or something like that would be cool. I have a lot of cool long range spots near me but I just haven't been sure how to go about getting into long range to fly them from just flying pretty short range quads. Anyways, keep up the great work
Watch Konasty's videos. He has done a few long range ones. Or Nurk FPV
Very useful video. Noticed a lot of groundloops through SMA connector there... well, I hope you have some kind of insulation between SMA connectors and carbon. Should have. Also should be mentioned that VTX antennas with SMA connectors must have hardening tube over cable connection to SMA connector. Otherwise cable will break off after some crashes (happened with me too). Antennas without connector hardening are suitable only for mounting in places without stress on connector - on googles for example. Receiver antennas on top mostly become chopped on crashes when they bend down into props pushed by tree branches and other things where you crashed in. In my quads they was relocated on arms more than a year ago - after viewing your older videos :) Never chopped receiver antennas by props anymore. Thanks!
Thank you. I learned so much more about zip ties and their importance in antenna configuration and how antennas function.
LOLOLOLOL I'm gonna guess you're joking but either way thanks :-)
Very nice with all the different examples you gave ✌ I run one kwad with L-shape in the back and another with antennas on the arms pointing backwards, both with decent range on X4R 😊
it is so nice that you count in the metric system!
Watched yesterday, thought maybe it would be good to change pos of my antennas. Today chrashed and shredded both of the receiver. So now i'm ready to change them 😅
This was really helpful...you know what else would be massively helpful? The next time you have to clean a motor with a c-clip, it would be awesome if you made a video on the best way to get those stupid things on and off without destroying them or losing them. I can’t seem to do either...thx man, this stuff is really useful.
Put a bag around the motor when you take it off. Or just do what I did and swap to a motor with a screw.
I also had an issue with c clips and ended up losing a bell and prop in the grass during the next flight. I do like the suggestion for a topic
bag screwdriver fingernails
Jason Bond A
It would also be great if you could publicly execute whoever is responsible for those things...
After watching ima try your methods, get ready for praise or a laugh in the next week. Lol thanks for the vid. Perfect timing for me.
Ive had crossfire failsafe on me many times before i even come close to losing video signal. Youve got to remember that we also use high gain patches on our goggles and the situation in which you are flying affect how far each frequency travels or how well its received
Josh I got a problem with tying off my pigtail and antenna against the carbon fiber... every time I do that I get crap in the video and when I put something between the sma connector and the metal parts of my antenna and the frame it goes away till a new problem shows up... I use heat shrink, or tape of some sort .. but good video is a sore spot with me I never have good video for very long... before something acts up.
Thanks
Randy
Awesome as usual Joshua. Thanks for the birthday shout out by the way.
Happy Birthday!!!!!!!
@@JoshuaBardwell immortalized forever on your video thumbnail. Thanks
Great vid JB, like that shirt too, fly or die. I ve done the vertical L too, but will give that horizontal L a try.
These dilemmas are exactly why I bought an Ender 3 and a couple rolls of filament. My Rooster was the straw...You can easily design anything you need for free on TinkerCad. I like the 45 angle out the back for vtx and receiver antenna at the same angle but 90 apart. I still had receiver antenna getting sucked into the props until i started using the tubes.
What I never understood is why its not a default to run antennae diversity on freestyle quads were its expected that the aircraft with rotate on all axies. Take 2.4GHz ELRS, were you can run two T antennae, orient one horizontally on the nose or tail and one smaller one mounted vertically (use a stand-off to mount). That way if you lose signal quality on your horizontal it can fail over to the vertical. Steele has a good video as well on making an 'immortal L' which achieves a similar thing with one antenna.
That smooth operator look awesome.
I always thought that the SMA connector cannot touch any carbon so I've always Heat Shrink it. Thanks for the tip of zip tie the base instead 🤙🏻
Yo.. just drill 2 holes in the top plate and you can zip it anywhere you want...
True. But always drill or sand carbon under water in a bowl. Carbon fiber dust is wery cancerogenic.
Carcinogenic.
@@tradebasedonnaturalresourc8777
Very👌
You’ve inspired me to tare apart my quad and re-config it
so Joshua, I have crashed many times with old mounting and bent my antenna many time but never broke it. I watched this vid and changed my mounting of my antenna just as you suggested and wouldn't you know it the very first time I crashed it broke the pigtail right in half replaced the pigtail and boy the next crash it broke the pigtail again. Thanks and I am not blaming you but I think I will go back to my old way of mounting.
This wa so helpful! Munched 3 aerials before I decide to look for a solution which was so simple!!
JB You should make a signature edition battery pack that would let you use 18650 batteries and discharge them down to at least 3.2v per cell without getting low battery warnings.
Something I'm curious about - the angle of the mounted VTX antenna.
You're showing a lot of VTX antennas that stick straight out the back, is that preferable for freestyle compared to sticking out at a 45 degree tilt? Which I guess a tilt would be better for racing because you're not doing lots of big loops/flips/rolls etc.
licensetodrive no. Same performance either direction as long as each direction keeps it equally away from flight rx antennae
It does matter, most omnis are about 2-3dbi so they have the longest range upright
Maybe but then the antenna should be mounted at 45 degres but not bent. If it’s just bent, it often rotates in a crash and goes straight for the props.
In the range of a racing track it the difference just doesn't matter, fit it the way it is more convenient for you.
In short distances for racing angle doesn't matter. Otherwise bend antenna up enough to stick it out from arms. It will still be safe enough. Completely straight antenna may have less range due to radiation "bubble" form which usually is ecliptic, not round and for straight antenna become partially shielded by arms and other frame parts.
if you like the 90° mount out of the tail....try to make a X instead of a V...same reception but smaller and more durable.
I don't see how you can make an X. The two "legs" of the V are connected at the base. It's not a diversity antenna.
it works with 2 mountingpoints. ive seen it on a rc-addict quad and use it since then. the X-shape is more ''compact'' and less wobbly than a V-shape.
To make the VTX style better IMO, use a RAPSTRAP first. It will give the antenna a little give and then use two small zipties over the rapstrap to lock it in.
can you make a long range video ? :)
Yes please
I watch Nurk for long range quad stuff. His train vid is sick! It's called the best flight if the year. Check it out if you haven't!
@@mikesmith1290 if you want good lr stuff check out bobesh oz. 100% worth it
The receiver-antennas on the rear-arms looks like hooks waiting for branches and twigs. We do fly usually forwards, aren't we ? So what i do is to mount the receiver-antennas on the front arms looking back.
For the vtx-antenna range is my absolute 1st concern because with the legal 25mW just two tight trees in between let me see nothing but static. Here i prefer the more vulnerable vertical mount. Replacing one 10$-antenna a month is just like changing props.
You say that but it's really not a problem. The front arms act as a shield for the rear.
Another great video! As BoBo said below, I try to insulate the SMA from the carbon of the frame, a piece of electrical tape or the like, it would help with electrical inference. Thank you
Another huge advanatge when mounting the antennas likewise on the arms is, when working on the quad and removing the topplate you finally have nothing attached to same, which is pretty annoying in my opinion. The VTX antenna can usually be just unplugged.
I just learned the hard way that mounting antennas ( 2 part antennas like in flysky) near the flight controller can cause interference failsafing your quad.
THANK YOU Josh, learned something again today. Next vid tomorrow so i learn again something
Back to old crap, I have trying to set up a wizard 220 after updating controller, but receiver (dsm) won't failsafe but I've kind of set failsafe in the controller but what has blown my mind is Betaflight giving red flag (arm) mode and a notification box informing me that failsafe wasn't set. Did I miss the vlog about more modern Betaflight.
You are the fpv know it all and I love it.
Heat shrinking the antenna adds a layer of dielectric. Some antennas have a piece without coating. I wonder if this affects range and how much.
Great video! Thanks a bunch for sharing your knowledge. Now i know where to mount antennas properly!
I think the L configuration is best on 3 inch or smaller, with T vertical you cant land properly and when i mount it horizontally and get terrible drops in RSSI when turning 90 degree left or right.
I was actually interested in an Immortal-T to replace my dipole R9 antenna but after flying today with that horizontal T-style under the arms i think my main problem is facing my quad sideways, forwards and back it shoots back to 99% mostly.
But isnt L-shape always better for freestyle pilots since you move around all axis and with T-Style you'll always have a deadspot somewhere when you are facing the antenna-ends.
I always put heatshrink over my sma connections. Just helps with interference from the carbon.
Luv your videos, thanks for the knowledge. Have you thought of reviews on 3D printers.....what to look for......etc......or even a panel discussion video on what’s what..... thanks
Sure the arm mount antennas won't get sucked down into the the props but when you crash they will get pushed up into the prop line and slice away.
For me at least this hasn't been a problem. But of course nothing is totally immune to damage. This is the best way I've found.
I think the real answer here is to get away from carbon fiber. I'm just starting to get into quads. I bought my first fairly typical carbon frame. But definitely the next quad I build will be fiber glass. Carbon is much lighter and much stronger than fiberglass, but it's five to seven times more expensive (a lot of people don't realize how cheap fiberglass actually is). I think a good compromise is to add about 50% to your frame's weight, achieve 80% of the strength and stiffness, but have it cost much less. A carbon frame might weigh 100g and cost $50. A slightly less durable glass frame would weigh about 150g but cost only $12. The big value add, in my opinion, is that now you can put your antennae inside, and achieve an extremely protected sleek build.
Hey josh. Do you think with the success of 3” flight characteristics and the proven success of 5”........a 160mm microlight frame built to carry huge 2206 motors but with 4” props would just win the power to weight ratio and give us the best of what current tech can provide?
You ever thought about heat shrinking your sma connector? Stops it grounding with the frame.
I mount my antennas as you do but I also put some electrical tape/foam tape between the antenna and the carbon fibre. As carbon fibre is a bit conductive I think insulation there might be an idea. But maybe it doesn’t matter :P
It can improve video. I should probably do it but I often forget.
🙂
I use Steeles method when he was on FrSky.. I use an XSR, No failsafes in over a year and no chopped antennas EVER.. ImpulseRC provides great antenna tubes
what method is that??
Basically using the back 2 standoff's in a vertical and horizontal configuration to get best polarization. Probably easiest to link you to this:
ua-cam.com/video/_wJCcU-yMGU/v-deo.html
Dude. Ya gotta link that shirt. Thanks for learnin me sunthin. Rock on Josh!
Contact SuprTech on Facebook.
I am a little slow watching this video, but have a question for you anyways. Is it true that no signal really comes out the bottom of the video antenna, makes sort of a dome shape? Or maybe it makes more like a sphere? Anyways, if it is a dome shape and you are flying back towards yourself, haven't you now got some of the quad/battery/gopro between you and the quad along with the weakest signal from the antenna?
I said a lot, but I'm sure you understand what I'm asking.
Thanks for what you do, I appreciate it!
There is a null in coverage directly above and below the antenna. But it's not "zero" coverage. It's weaker there, but there is still some coverage.
@@JoshuaBardwell awesome thanks, I was flying the freestyle quad the way you showed to put the antennas in the video, just flipped one to standing up. Expect to destroy it quickly that way and end up back the way you showed
Those who are thinking that the best theoretical antenna and placement matter should consider how it will perform after it gets mangled in transit, flight and crashes, not to mention deformed by airflow, acceleration and vibration. Unless you use a high-speed camera to study your antenna while it is in flight you really have no idea what shape it is in under actual use. Even more strange to me is that some of those who insist on transmitter antenna optimization seem to ignore the receiving antenna. If you are actually having range issues (as opposed to interference issues), mounting a J Pole (google it) antenna on a backpack frame so it is just above your head will probably do more good than all the tweaking with the transmit antenna you could ever do, and you can still move if you find yourself in a dead spot. If you are having interference issues the only antenna that will help is a directional antenna, otherwise it is all down to your receiver's selectivity (particularly alternate and adjacent channel rejection) and the robustness of your encoding/decoding scheme. Note that racers and freestylers usually use encoding schemes that are more focused on latency than on robust error correction.
Yes , I have found the same thing, wish I had seen this month's ago. Would have saved a bunch of antennas. H frames seem to keep the props farther away. Arris v2 frame is the one I have.
just get a u.fl antenna, zip it with a single tie and let that dangle out the back, i guess that would work nicely as well, because the wire isn't as thick and stiff
Awesome tips. Great channel Joshua I have learned tons. I will try the L configuration left a like
Your way connects the antenna GND to the frame.. which can result in bad signal/shortcut.
This is seldom a problem, but if it is, it's easy to isolate.
Great video. And great way to mont i been doing my 2.4 ant like your for awhile since i seen it in one of your videos. Works great
An other tip. If you lay the strip double, it gets a lot more durable
I like my receiver ant. pointing forward but the same under arm. works for me cheers Thanks Joshua
Tried the "Immortal L" mounting as Steele calls it.. landed upside down today and chopped it off ಠ_ಠ ..think I will try your Flat L method
0 hey Josh another great vid, but what do you think about antennas that don't have SMA? I'm talking about antennas that are MMCX, I think, but they just come right off of the VTX and kind of just have a long coaxial. I'm confused about what to do I think why have the SMA it's just another weak point is it not?
I've been advocating the horizontal L for Crossfire on the Chameleon since Micro TX came out using the old skool Chameleon's antenna tube plate.
Unfortunately that plate wont work on the Rooster/Ti Chameleon as the spacing for the standoff's changed.
Other wise Immortal T out the back on TPU or on an arm.
Ime trying thr front arm on . my most recent build for better reception on the way home.
I always insulate my SMA connector from the frame. Not doing so can cause video quality issues.
Mm I have the tbs unify TPlate bolted onto the rooster frame, are you saying that the ground from that touching the frame causes bad signal. If so then insulating using shrink wrap or something like it can clean it?
I mounted my receiver antennas like this after seeing one of your videos and on the very next flight I crashed into a tree, causing both antennas to bend up into the props, chopping them clean off. Guess it was just bad luck... From now on I heatshrink a metal wire on top of the zip tie and the antenna below, hoping the prop will just glide off.
On second thought, that's a really bad idea as it certainly interferes with the transmission... I've got some thin glass fibre tubes lying around, I'll try to stick the antennas through one of those.
Hi Joshua much respect! I have been following you vids on the Wizzard x220s and wondered if you could help, on the Wizzards fpv antenna the sma mount on the vtx has an angle bracket if I remove it would the antenna connect to the vtx like in this vid? Keep up the good work. I learnt something today!
Fantastic, JB. And isn't it awesome when the frame designer thinks about all that and already give you mounting holes for zip ties and everything? 😊
MC's Creations this I like
@@OswaldBeef Absolutely! 😊
Joshua, I’m a big fan on using small zip ties for mount lots of items on flying models, not just antenna. Didn’t hear you say this exactly (maybe I missed it) so to summarize what you are describing is the engineering philosophy that, during a crash, it’s assumed that things break and it’s cheaper and easier to repair if you have large, high leverage or heavy parts break free instead of breaking the part itself or the frame because the mount is stronger than the part or the frame. Anyhow, good advice.
I’m surprised, given your Wi-Fi engineering background, at your advice that it’s ok not to be much concerned about antenna orientation. I know you’re a pragmatist given your engineering background and I respect you advice on most things but this is one instance I can’t agree with you on, especially when it comes to the 5.8ghz band most of us use for our video links. The circularly polarized antenna that almost everyone uses has a fairly well defined donut RF pattern perpendicularly to the coax feedline. If the antenna is mounted so it’s mostly vertical you’ll have strong transmission signal emanating from the antenna 360 degrees around it horizontally with an 45 degree or so vertical width. However, the signal strength falls off rapidly towards the top and bottom (again, imagine a donut). If the antenna is mounted horizontally the donut will then be vertical and the signal will remain just as strong to the sides within a narrow range however the signal will drop off from 3 and 10 dB or more to the rear of the ship and even more to the front. That’s like reducing the vtx power by half to 1/8th or less or from say 500mw to 60mw or 250mw to 30mw. Over clear line of sight that may not make a difference for the distances you fly and for racing it may make little difference. However for freestyle or a cinedrone, what happens when you’re 50 or 100m out and you go behind a tree with lots of leaves or worse, behind a building or a wall? There is a high probability that you’ll loose your video for a few seconds and maybe crash. Yes, the drone is doing flips and rolls, etc. so “why would it matter?”, you may say. Well, those type of maneuvers are often done with a little altitude and are quick and transitory. Logically, the drone will be close to horizontal most. Of the time in order to stay in the air. Anyway, you’re mounting advice is all good except I strongly recommend that users try to position the vtx antenna so that it’s vertical or nearly so in forward flight. It won’t make much difference in survivability, if any, and it’s more than like to prevent a crash in the first place due to lost video signal.
Here’s a video a guy makes antenna with some good graphics that demonstrate what I’m writing about.
ua-cam.com/video/aftijOUc2jM/v-deo.html
Thanks for all your hard work and great videos!l
I pick a spot for me to be with lots of line of sight like a corner or roof . Keep myself in line of sight
Is it possible to use 2 video transmitter antennas, just like the 2 radio receiver antennas? For example one VTX antenna could be on the left side of the quad, the other on the right.
No, the vTX is not set up to work like that.
If you make a video for FPV antenna mounting on Quad for better video reception
It will help me and others too😊
Thank you for a another informative and helpful vid. One question, does it matter if thebreceiver antenna is facing forward or backward mounted to the frame arm? I have them mounted on the arms with zip ties backward but thought I would loose range if facing forward like in your vid. Thanks.
No or doesn't make much difference
@@JoshuaBardwell Great, thanks :)
OMG 6:37 when we can buy the JB motors? Love the colors :)
Could be useful to 3D print a bay for the SMA/coaxial part of the antenna with a flexible material
Another great video. Thank you Joshua !
hat down to you, you know your stuff.
Good vid. I use ufl axii and just have them out the back similar to the smooth operater.
As far as quad rx antennae go, how would you mount your long range antennae if you are using a R9Slim+? That receiver has 2 antennae and I got one with 2 immortal T and plan on using for a long range cruiser. Would it be good to mount them on opposite arms or or better to use one horizontally and one in an L shape like you have vertically. I am trying to maximize range for mountain flying using the R9M that goes up to 1W 900mhz.
Side note; What motors are those on the qavr? The gold and purple ones, look sweet.
the r9slim is 900mhz the same as crossfire so I imagine your would use the same antenna orientation.
I was just wondering if it would be beneficial to use both orientation styles since I will have the 2 antennae. I was thinking maybe if I use the vertical orientation like Josh has on the qavr as well as horizontal out on the arm it will give me more robust coverage than just the one antenna out on the arm or vertical L in the back. I did not think it over much on how I would place 2 of these antennae prior to buying the slim+.
I need that shirt! Lol
Me too
Same