Balancing the rotating assembly for a small-block Chevy V8
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Progress continues on our 283 Chevy small-block V8 rebuild. Davin heads downstate to our friends at Apex Competition Engines to get the rotating assembly (crankshaft, pistons, rods, bearings, wrist pins, and rings) internally balanced. The pistons Davin got for this build are significantly heavier than the stock ones, so a good amount of weight needs to be added to the crankshaft counterbalances to balance things out.
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Davin chewing his nails as the crank spins is priceless. Like a Dad waiting for his newborn ... :o)
Kind of grossed me out! 🤮
I worked in an automotive machine shop while in college for...automotive technology. Balancing rotating assemblies was my favorite part. The owner was not only a patient teacher but a fabulous machinist.
R.I.P Billy Newton Whitfield, 1937-2021
good to get everything right but really? mig welding and not having something to protect the journals from spatter?
A part of me died inside watching him weld the plugs with out coverimg the rest of the crank...
Honestly it's a valid concern, but you'd be suprised how a clean and polished bearing surface will not allow welding spatter to stick.
@@scottdoubleyou563 I don't know man... I weld alot and spatter seems to stick to everything. I even worry about lint from my cloth on bearing surfaces. I'm sure they will clean it well. He does an awesome job. But I just can't get past it... 😳
@@scottdoubleyou563 Weld will stick to any steel.
Totally AGREE!!!... I was like... "OH-MY-GOSH! 😳😲
The least he could have done was spray it with antisplatter spray or covered it with a welding blanket.
Fix one thing and damage something else.
Any shop I worked in they would be fired.
Their motto must be - we do it nice because we do it twice.
I watch a lot of motor shows Davin, and that is the first time I have ever seen the balancing process explained and demonstrated properly, thank you old son.
JB you're exactly right. When you're doing it it feels a bit like witchcraft...
Impressive skills, a pleasure to watch as always ! and filming quality is gorgeous
Amazing how much effort one can put into something they love. All those tiny details needed to get it perfect. Amazing work guys
Davin, young folk don’t want to do this kind of work where you get your hands dirty. They all want to be UA-cam stars , no offense.
Maybe next time protect the crankshaft from the welding slag with a simple welding blanket.........
What did it cost $$$ to do this procedure?
Where I live a typical balance job is about $200. Alittle more if they have to add heavy metal.
So, this should handle a 6-71 blower and turn tires into smoke soon, right?😁
A note about engine shops-the local shops that serve our local circle-track are desperately looking for help. They're hard pressed to help the "regulars," never mind taking on new clients!
Always balance your assembly. Why would anyone skip this step? If your not going to balance it, just get a junk yard motor and skip the rebuild.
Why would someone skip balancing the assembly? Cost and time also the application, high HP and high revving you can justify the expense but for a city vehicle that hardly hits the freeway not so much
Hundreds of thousands of rebuilt engines have lasted just as long or better than original mileage. Unless you are racing, it's not worth the time and money.
Awesome video.!! I love watching Davin in his natural habitat.
Throwing MIG splatter on his crank journals. Did not even take the 30 seconds to cover them. What a hack. Would get demoted to floor sweeper in my shop for that.
At one time I balanced transmission parts in Caterpillar auto shift transmissions. There's a real art to doing it quickly and efficiently and since all the trans were dyno tested a small out of balance even in a huge tractor trans would show up as a vibration.
Hypereutectic pistons are a LOT lighter than the steel reinforced cast pistons.
I have never had to put mallory in a Chev crank. And I have done 3" 3 1/4 and 3.48/ 3.5" engines
Are we not concerned about weld splatter landing on the bearing surface?
They should
Loved the content, but not the 50's piano lounge music.
Блин, до сих пор не пойму что у шатунов внутри меряют, если овальность то у нас ручные приборы
I'm sure in the moment you guys were less than thrilled about the crank, but your machinist is correct, this did make for a good video. Really enjoyed this one.
“Externally” balancing, as you’ve put it, doesnt correct the imbalance where it occurs, so your local stresses would still exist… despite the whole assembly being balanced. In other words, you may still have issues related to a large, local imbalance such as localized fatigue cracks, excesssive babbitt wear, to name just a few.
A well-balanced rotating assembly ALWAYS helps a machine run better!
So how do you correct those problems
@Jerry Whalen in a external balance... those issues (difference within the crank itself) can not be resolved... it's why internal balance is better... external balance is an acceptable compromise of NOT being spot on excat
Wow , I never realized how much work was involved in balancing.
That is a lot of work to put into a cast nodular iron crank. I get why. But it brings memory's!!! Back in the day I had a 440 crank balanced, hard chromed and grooved and it still broke. I bought a off the shelf crank kit and slap in it and as far as I know its still running!!!
Great video, you are absolutely right about the labor shortage in these types of fields. Young guys just don't seem interested in going into machining anymore. I was pleasantly surprised to see such a young guy balancing that crank for you!!
Long hours, low pay, abusive to your body... Yeah, sounds like a great career.
@@michaeldavis3430 Same with aircraft maintance. I love working on airplanes but no one locally is willing to pay a wage that'll cover food and housing. Oh well.
I don't know about anywhere else, but here in NC machine shops cry and scream about having to pay 11 or 12 bucks an hour. I have my own machine tools but it's not worth turning them on.. I make more mowing grass.
Just to add to the conversation here, I've been working with a machinist here in Washington state after going through 2 other shops that closed due to retirement. This new shop's owner is a spring chicken in his mid-forties!! But with that said his shop is completely booked for months, and just added a fourth machinist. He has to be making a ton of money, since his prices are well above average and has this big backlog of work. Most of the work he does is performance LS stuff, but occasionally will work on SBC/BBC for old farts like me :)
@@danosburn80 I can make $150-$250 per day working at home vs $100 per day doing aircraft mnt in town. That is net $ after fuel, lunch, and taxes are accounted for. No reason to drive 45 minutes each way and spend 10.5 hrs away from home for slightly above minimum wage when everything is accounted for.
Yea heavy metal 🎸 y motores súper cool 😎
That look of an expectant father, the first time they spun up the crankshaft.
The welding sparks going all over the bearing surfaces :)
Cool process. Of course I've always known what "balanced and blueprinted" meant, but I've never seen a dynamic balancing of a crankshaft before. Pretty sweet! This puppy's gonna be smoooth...✌️❤️🙂🇨🇦
"Balanced and blueprinted"
We just saw the "balanced" part. "Blueprinted" referes to the process where the block and head(s) are machined as close to perfect compared to the original (or modified) engine Blueprint. This may include: bore size, bore spacing, deck height as well as the deck being perpendicular to the crankshaft journals.
Yup.
I said I know what they mean, but thanks!
@@scottimusgarrett15 sorry partner...
@@williamwright6978,For those of you who don’t know what blueprinting means, William has just given us a good explanation!
Try balancing a turbine for a jet engine or a prop blade for a helo . One false move and people die .
If this is “heavy metal” I can’t wait to see what will be defined as “industrial harsh noise”
Definitely unfortunate that we don't value skilled trades in this country nearly as much as other nations do. If you're good at what you do you can make a really good living and never want for work
Very informative, thank you for so many good videos.
"Perfectly balanced"... until the oil gets wrapped up around it. Whoops... not "perfect" anymore
Davin, would it have been possible to get this crank into balance by completely welding up the original counterweight factory drillings at each end? I could not tell from the video how much of the factory counterweight drillings got filled by welding. Could you have lightened the pistons somewhat by material removal on the underside of the piston top? Just curious what your options were. Great videos showing the practical aspects of engine building.
The drillings aren't at the same angle as where the weight is needed.
@@eneapasquali2941 Good point, I did not consider the angles required for the added weights. Thx
Hmmmm.... On VW Aircooled engines, we only balance the crankshaft internally without any bob weights around. I'm wondering if we're not missing something here...
*DAVIN!*
I've apparently lost track of the "Snowball" '37 race car with the *440* engine (last seen on #94).
What happened to that project??
- Ed on the Ridge
They are still waiting for parts, per Davin.
@@markbremmer8642 Thank you sir.
Thanks for showing what I've wondered about. The detail and difference between internal and external balance. These videos are a learning experience.
I was watching an old show of yours now I can’t find it I believe it was episode 71 you found a what you called a Porsche speedster kit car it was wrecked in the front he said it was fiberglass that car is definitely made of metal there is no doubt in my mind with a crush like that fiberglass does not do that only metal well I’m not sure if you ever got that car or whoever did but they got a real car it looks like to me
Those small block 400s were the most under rated motors Chevrolet ever built, also the lights being blown out of the ceiling very cool
"Why are you putting so much time and effort into this?!?"
...Why the hell would you NOT?? What's the point of putting the effort into a full rebuild like this, only to leave it all sloppy and unbalanced because you couldn't be bothered to do things RIGHT?
Don't get that Bob Weight mixed up. I accidentally used Tom Waits on mine and now my engine sounds all raspy and haggard. Some people dig that tho! 🤷♂️
After all this skill and attention to detail...will we still get 180° out? It's a staple now I think.
Welding with all them naked journals laying around!!! Omy my!
I have no idea why you would need to add weight on this one. Bob weight had to be very heavy and in all the years I did engines, a basic stock rebuild on a SB Chevy never needed heavy metal. Cost is a huge factor in basic engines and adding heavy metal to the balance job pushes the cost way up. Your pistons, pins must have been some heavy slugs ! LOL
So, in hindsight, I guess you should have bought pistons closer to the stock weight, no? I enjoyed watching the balancing process, but what’s the real lesson for those of us that want to avoid this.
I would not have been welding on that crankshaft with the journals exposed
How can I massage a workshops like this? I want to work with metal, cars in America but I am from another country.
I can't find a good machine shop where I live now and it sucks! I need someone I can trust to do the work properly! I really do need to move back to Edmonton.
Welding spatter flying all over those bearing surfaces..
as a welder i was cringing at him plug welding the crank with exposed crank journals ,but the end result is awesome
interesting, would have like to have seen more. do the Bob weights have rod bearings, do they have to point in a certain direction ? is that a stock crank ?
Davin Hetfield 🤘
Davin needs to get some sleep your looking wore out man !!! Thanks for all you Do
How do they determine the weight to be added? Once you drill out the hole you remove weight. How do you know how many grams you are removing when making room for that tungsten slug?
It's the volume of a cylinder times the density of the material. A 1" diameter hole in a 1" thick lobe would be 3.14159 cubic inches. Cast iron is 425lbs to 487lbs per cubic foot. 3.14159 cubic inches is 0.001818049769 cubic feet, so assuming 456lbs as a median, that's about 0.829 pounds. Converting to grams, that's about 376 grams (or 350 grams on the lower end to 401 grams on the high end). There's a way to work backwards from knowing how much weight you need to the hole size, but that's too much for a Monday morning (even if it is Memorial Day) :)
@@JCWren 🤯🤯😵😵 my head hurts from to much math. And it's a Monday at that.😆
@@JCWren Thanks for the lesson in Syrian Aramaic. I'm gonna go take 2 motrin for the migraine I have now.
🤣🤣🤣
@@JCWren or you just weight the material you removed, smart guy.
so if the rods were 14gs out from each other from the factory and the motor ran forever like that in stock forum how much better will it be? (i mean for a stock engine that won't see high rpm) because my understanding many factory motors are not well balanced from the factory
14'ish grams is well within the factory spec balance job. It would not have any notable vibration at that. It depends how hi rpm you turn it.. and how picky excating you wanna be at that point
That's a great employee. Cool to see a younger guy take his job series and trade
I've never actually seen the crank being balanced before. On the other hand, and not to brag but, I have instantaneously unbalanced, while simultaneously and rapidly disassembled a small block Chevy before. It went _BOOM!!_ . . . and then went silent. Not my proudest moment.
Nice Muzak. feel like im at a nice supper club with my wife!!
140 grams off??? so unless the new pistons were 140 grams heavier than originals... something here isnt right. I have never seen a stock SBC with a stock rod need that much mallory in the CW. Was the bobweight calculated wrong?
You have a good point. I went from a 350 sbc w/ stock rods/cast pistons... to scat I beam rods and .100 solid dome hyperutectic pistons and even STILL was only 55 grams off.. in same direction as THIS.
Which shop's are looking for help I'd love to work at a engine shop
Very cool video. I already knew about piston and rod balancing, but never saw the procedure for balancing a crankshaft. Now I know. Keep up the great work.
Bob weights and harmonic balancers are only used on V8 engines. The straight six is a naturally balanced design.
@@ellieprice363 the motion of a straight six creates theoretical balance, but you still need to have your pistons and rods equal weight for optimal balance.
@@TML34 Yes that’s very true. I decided not to include that important blueprinting operation.
why would you not cover the journals when you weld on the crank..
Blanket journals from welding spatter
Why did he weld the crank without protecting the throws.
I would think welding on the crank would heat it up and warp it
Dat Elevator music on Quaalude's tho
How much is a balancing job like this?
Proper (dynamic) balancing is such an important part of engine building that is overlooked by so many tuners. Heck, even Caterham and Lotus messed that up with the Rover K-Series. Just balancing a dime a dozen V8 can free up an easy 10 HP by reducing internal friction. Plus the engine will run smoother, more reliable and has more tuning potential.
Why do you go thru all that trouble????
A good answer is
"Because MY name is on that engine!"
That simple!
Good job Sir, now break is over, I'm going into my garage to work on my project.
Some new cars get a signed engine. AMG Mercedes and Nismo edition Nissans do.
Why not grind on the piston skirts to lighten them up ?
Very entertaining. I bought a crate motor that was 640 grams off on total bob weight, 80 grams per piston/rod. It snapped the cast crank in half within the first 500 miles of install. I no longer trust that nationally known engine builder and when local. Glad I did. He's a one man shop that took a lot more care with it. I also went with a forged crank instead of a cast one. I consider myself lucky because past the crank only 1 piston needed to be replaced. Usually with a crank braking it wipes out the whole block, but didn't. It's been 4 yrs since the new crank, it's perfect!
Davin's head on James Hetfield's body works much better than I would've expected lol
brought to you by the southing sounds of............
What about Mallory for added weight ?
I have a question. Whatever happened to the Chrysler 440 motor?
Yes absolutely shameless plug. Now - what is happening with the 440 cubic inch plant for the '37 race car?
6:18 Those spindle speed buttons must be for military trained technicians. Back in the day, the military found pictures (cartoons) trained soldiers faster than words. Nice.
not balancing a SBC or any old v8 is goofy
This is God's work. These men are heroes. Definitely going to Heaven someday. Bravo!!!
I never knew that a crankshaft could be welded on, I figured the localized heat from the weld would somehow denature and weaken the overall unit.
I'm a mechanic. I love building engines. Would be awesome to work for the Perfit outfit.
I'm not really experienced with these things, so I have a question. If you have to add 140 g to the crank, is that a 140 g on each end, or 140 g total? Also, since you had to drill out a hole to put that Mallory in, does that mean you also have to account for the amount of weight that you took out drilling the hole?
Very good 🔥🔥🔥
Son los mejores 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
The precision and amount of effort that goes into these videos are truely astonishing and uner appreciated. Thats why i will stay subbed forever
When he made that huge hole . To add a weight . Supposed to compensate what he drilled out
He drilled cast iron to install mallory,..
Pretty self explanatory why that would work....
Couldn't imagine how smooth this engine would feel like. Must be butter
If you have a motor apart for a build then always balance it no matter what the power level it will balance in longevity
There's just something about making a motor better than it was from the factory.
Learned a lot!
that is my son, best engine builder around. He knows his stuff
The closed captions during the welding read “applause”, and I love it
Of all the channels I watch with engine repair and will it run I have never seen this done before.
Always learning something on this channel, appreciate all the detail and knowledge!
You don't it to fly apart? You're no fun! Lol 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Какой уровень молодец !
Great video! Been building for years, never understood why they needed the crank to balance everything!
How much it cost to to this done?
Hi Davin, nice information. I got a couple questions:
I could see the ‘bob’ weights were spread in 90 degrees from one another. What is the rule for that?
And, how would it be for an in-line six Chevy 235?
Thanks a lot!
Felipe.
Cross plane V8 cranks need bob weights, but inline sixes don't. You just put an inline 6 crank on the balancer with no weights, measure, and then balance.