Zeiss 135mm f2 APO - As good as OTUS?
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
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I'm crying just so much detail it's making me emotional
+Mathieu Riesling Why were you crying :[?
Gerlokh Because I can't afford that Otus. My camera body costs the same as that lens lol.
+Mathieu Riesling what is your skillset? I might consider buying you for 4K :P
If you check ebay the price isn't as high as at the store (for brand new).
😂😂😂
You should do a 135mm showdown with the Zeiss APO, Sony 135mm f/1,8 ZA, Samyang 135mm, Canon 135mm L, Leica 135mm f/3,4, and Nikon 135mm.
+Timothy Tasmin Second that :)
+Timothy Tasmin Yeah, the Samyang/Rokinon version is stellar! I have the Nikon version paired with my D800.
Dear Matt,
Yes, it would be great if you could bring 135mm F2 DC, in same line up.
Devil's advocate here but even the nikon 135 f2.8 ai(s) can be found for under $100 I got one in near mint for $60 so I understand you can't get a commission on those lenses but I stopped your video and facepalmed when you "compared" the zeiss to the 70-200 NIKON.... Really?? The 70-200 has 21! lens elements and is a ZOOM at 2.8 versus versus a 11 glass element Prime Zeis at F2 (double the light intake!) The 135 focal lenght will give you better subject isolation than the 85 odus, so therefore you could also have compared that look with an old nikon tele prime like the 200 F2 or even the 300 F2.8 for the "smooth" blurry background. I guess it's all about which apples and pears you line against the Zeiss, it will never be a lemon but in my mind, there are other lenses in its price class, Sigma 135 1.8 art or the 135 2.8DC or even the 135 Samyang, that could give away better run for the money than the 70-200.
Add to that the minolta 135mm STF lens
My god, everytime you went between a Zeiss and Nikkor image it made the 70-200 look like a kit lens, comparatively of course.
I'd love to see a comparison between the Zeiss 135 and the Nikkor 135 DC. Would be interesting to see if gaining autofocus with the Nikkor looses you much detail and micro-contrast
Great review Matt Granger.... That Zeiss 135 mm APO seems fantastic,I will start thinking go for it...well done
Very informative, thanks for sharing!
That broken table though. It's giving me chills every time you place a lens over the edge of that table.
I recently got this lens. It's an incredible tool and I can't wait to use it more
I have the zeiss 21mm distagon and it’s fantastic for landscapes. I guess you have tp use zeiss glass to appreciate what if does. I just purchased the Apo Sonnar 135mm. This thing is absolutely fantastic. Actually this review was the deciding factor in my purchase. Thanks for the great review as I now have this. The images with this on my D750 looks great
Wow, reading the comments, I'm alarmed at how many silly people say that a lens is "too sharp to shoot people." Like what?! Some of these people are blowing big bucks on full frame megapixel monsters like the d800/e/810 but want a lens just "soft enough" to hide imperfections. If you want soft images, why in God's name are you buying sensors that resolve "microscopic" level detail? If you want soft, go get a d90 and an old Tamron lens. If not, learn to retouch your subjects' skin. Not that difficult.
In total agreement. It’s always possible to soften results if you feel they’re ‘too sharp for portraits’ . Better still find a model with a perfectly flawless skin and complexion...easier than you think.
@@petermaccabe8921 or make sure they're wearing proper make up.
The difference is remarkable. I see why you love the OTUS so much! It's amazing. And the other Zeiss is fantastic as well! Great stuff Matt
Good job! I'd like to see a comparison between the Zeiss Milvus 85mm f1.4 and the Zeiss Otus 85mm f1.4!
Samyang/Rokinon 135mm vs 135 Zeiss.
You're right about manual focus: it is easier than I thought it would be. I haven't got any of the lenses you were demonstrating, but I find the Nikon 105 mm f2.5 to be a lovely lens.
I own and use the 135mm f/2 Zeiss, 85mm f/1.4 Nikkor, and 80-200mm f/2.8 Nikkor for portraits.
All three produce excellent images.
Matt, if you ever have the chance I would love to see your comparison of the Zeiss 135mm in comparison to the Samyang 135mm f2. This lens is considerably cheaper, but apparently still very good. Thanks
Got both of the Zeiss and they are awsome, you need a Sony A7r2 using evf zoomed in to focus accurately.
This APO Vs. the 135mm Nikkor DC and a Sigma 135mm ART some time in 2016.
i own the zeiss with cinemod conversion by duclos. it's absolutely beautiful, however for videography it's essential to use with a tripod since due to the lack of image stabilization.
Definitely like this style, I hope you make more like this again! Can you test the new 24-70 VR against the old 24-70 and the Tamron?
Great appreciation for the 135mm!!
It may sound a bit loaded, but how about doing 85mm vs. 135mm showdowns of lens producers (Fujifilm, Sony, ...), for which is the better portrait barrel [overall] per mfr.
Matt, I've been watching your videos for the last two weeks - hats off, I've learned more in those two weeks than the last two years. Quick question, could you comment on the APO Planar 135 versus the Milvus 85. The price in the US is now practically the same! Thanks.
Thanks Matt really interesting video.I struggle to handhold longer non-VR primes and get sharp results - could you give your take on getting the best out of these lenses in combination with something like a D810 in terms of ISO, shutter speed, any special focusing technique you use? Cheers
Hi Matt - If possible, compare this lens to the 85 mm F1.2.
how would the 100mm Milvus compare to the 135mm? I used to own a 100mm Zeiss makros, previous design. I tested 100 Milvus and 135mm both in different shops, not directly together. The Milvus did seem a bit easier to handle, I could be wrong. I plan to use the lense mainly at F4 for portraits - how will the 135 and the 100 compare here? the focal length does not make a huge difference for me, both are fine for portraits.
Hey Matt great video... Would of loved to of seen the Nikon 85-1.8 compared as the cheap option.. Thanks Matt
Thanks a lot, Matt! I use this lens with my Sony A7, and manual focusing is a piece of cake. I'm not a pro, but seriously manual focusing is a joy to use. Compared to Samyang 135 f2, they're pretty close in terms of sharpness. However, the skin tone, colors, build quality, bokeh are all better on the Apo.
hi ! I'm planning on getting a tamron 70-200 (G2 version) and a Zeiss milvus 85mm 1.4 . Do you think that would be enought for portraits or should I include the Zeiss milvus 135mm 1.4 or replace the 70-200 with the 135. the only reason I'm thinking about the 70-200 is the versatility as I'll not only be doing portraiture. thank you and great video !!
i've always thought this was one of your best vids. now that everyone is raving about the Z version of the 70-200, maybe it's time for a new shootout comparison. i'm sure many would love to see how it renders compared to these Zeiss benchmark lenses :-)
Fuck the lens, that desk is beautiful!
Thanks. DIY job
I have the Zeiss ZE 85mm for canon. Im getting the Sony A7r II and have an canon adaptor. Should I sell my 85mm and get the Batis 85 or keep my Zeiss ZE?
I did consider buying the Zeiss 135mm f2 but went for the 85mm Milvus instead. Optically the Milvus has similar sharpness to the 135mm but what put me off the 135mm is that it has more limited use indoors where I might not be able to get framing I would like in a small room. The 135mm is an amazing lens though.
Reminds me of the design for the Leica Elmarit 135mm f2.8
On Sony a7 series, which one is optically better, the Batis 85 or 135 Apo?
matt it will be kind of u if u review Zeiss Milvus 85mm F/1.4 ZF.2 Lens for Nikon F mount
Hey
How about Zeiss 135mm f2 APO vs Samyang 135mm f2?
Thanks
135mm showdown please (Canon, Zeiss APo, Sony Zeiss, Samyang)
Hey Mattthe word on the net is that the Rokinon 135 f2 is as good if not better than the 135 f2 APO.... you think you can put these two heads up?thanks for the vids!
Hey, Matt, maybe you could say something about old Minolta lenses? People say 28-135/4-4.5 is awesome and I tend to disagree with that. And while we speak about Zeiss 135, how it compares with new Samyang 135?
hey mate the bottom link is for a 24-70, but you wrote 70-200mm
Hi Matt,
thanks for the review. But Rokinon/Samyang 135mm is pretty sharp and even better than Canon 135 L's, so it would be interesting to compare the zeiss and rokinon. Can you make a video for the Rokinon. Haven't seen such a comparison so far!
Cheers
Off topic question but which eye cup for the view finder do you use? I"m trying to find a nice one for the D750.
Hi Matt! Could you Please PIT some comparison to some other older mf lens? There are various 85 or 135 bright Onet from 70's Andrzej 90's... Would that be possible?
Hi, Matt!
You should see if Sony will let you try out the Sony Zeiss 135mm f1.8 (that has AF) via an LA-EA3 adapter on a A7RII. It is perhaps my sharpest lens (along with a Leica R 135mm f2.8).
Regardless, very enjoyable vid. :)
I don't think the Sony 135mm will AF via the LA-EA3 adapter. I believe that lens is screw driven so will need the LE-EA4... not 100% on that, but pretty sure that's the case.
+Bruce Bachand i have compared it - my friend has it. Lovely lens
+Leo Hoang You are right. The 135 f1.8 is screw driven.
You're right... LA-EA4... I own both adapters and use the LA-EA3 and manually focus so I don't lose any light
+Bruce Bachand I used it on my a99, and it's one of the few lenses I kept when I switched to the A7R2. It really is a remarkable lens too, and the focus is fine with the LA-EA4, although if they make a Batis version, I'd be awfully tempted, even if they make it f/2.
Matt when you gonna do a review on Milvus?
Hi Matt ...how the Zeiss Milvus 85mm f1.4 and 135 f2 compare with Otus and Sigma Art line up ?? Price wise Milvus is much more Value .
For the 135mm most definitely use MirrorUp mode, and you are guaranteed the SHARPEST images! Combined with a D800/E/810 you will get max image quality edge to edge.
Great Video...
Why not compare the Otus versus the Zeiss 85mm1.4 Planar ?
Howdy Matt! Why do you have the Fosters beer bottle there?
Good comparisons, but I'd have loved to see Nikons 85mm primes (1.8 & 1.4) added to the test?
+aljawad have compared the otus to the nikkor previously. Nikkor is one of their best - and extremely practical - but not up to the otus in terms of image quality
Even viewing this on a smartphone, the quality of the two Zeiss lenses just jumps out of the screen!
Hi, Matt. How about the new milvus 135mm F2? Have you ever test it? It's that better than the old one? Thanks.
If you look at the literature, it's the same optics, in a more modern housing. They should perform the same in the field.
got it! thank you. probably the old model is a good chose.
How about Zeiss 135mm f2 APO vs Samyang 135mm f2?
www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=924&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=1058&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0
The Zeiss is noticeably sharper wide open however the Samyang is performing really well considering the price you pay for it.
Samyang 135/2 - crazy shapr lens with superb micro contrast (even wide open), absolutely on par with Zeiss (if not better, when it comes to the chromatic abberation correction). For only 500$.
+player1CR have you compared them? Or seen a comparison?
Hi Matt, not side to side, but tried them both. Zeiss, like all Zeiss lenses, has supreme built quality, but when it comes to the optics, the Samyang is really stunning, you should check it personaly for yourself ;)
Meanwhile you can visit lenstip.com and look for Samy review.
Yep, more of these videos you "used to make", please.
The samyang 135mm f2 is one of the best lenses on the market right now imo, crazy crazy sharp wideopen.
+Love Svensson Yeah it is sharper then the 135L, I want it haha
For sure sharper than the 135L
VERY NICE MODEL
can even see the diff in lo rez YT, matt. thx, 4 another lucid review. j.
These modern manual lenses must be a joy to shoot on a 35mm film camera... :)
I have the Zeiss APO 135 f/2 and it’s the finest lens I own and use. But for a cheaper option, I have used a Zeiss 150mm Sonnar CF for Hasselblad on a Nikon D850. The results are incredible if you don’t mind shooting in stop-down mode with aperture priority. It truly is comparable to the Zeiss, but of course, it’s yesterday’s $2200 lens. And it shows. I paid $375 for it at National Camera Exchange and it’s in mint condition. Supposedly the 120mm for Hasselblad is even better, so I hear. But the Zeiss 135mm is fantastic, without a doubt.
How do they compare to the Samyang 135 f/2 ?
thanks Matt. and what ur opinion about nikkor 85mm F/1.8 vs zeiss 135mm
The Nikkor is great value, not the same quality
+Md. Shahnewaz Islam That depends on what you want to use it. I own both, the Otus 85mm and the Apo 135mm (and 14-24mm/2.8 + 24-70mm/2.8). For many situations, the Otus 85 focus range is to long. Street Shooting: forget it! The 135 is a lot easier to Focus, than the 85mm Otus. It depends on what you want to shoot.My next lens is a Nikkon 85mm 1.4/1.8 or 70-200mm/2.8G or a better idea.
Matt, I was planning to but a 85mm for portrait. Can you suggest between Zeiss milvus 85mm vs Nikon 85mm. I don't have any problem using a Manual focus lens
I have tested both of these via pixel-peeping in PhotoShop and there is very little difference, in practical terms. The Zeiss is better but not by much. For budget-minded shooters, that Nikon 85mm f/1.8 is just fine, in my view.
Sadness is we won't see her again. 😭
Been manual focus for years BUT digital cameras do not use split screen or assist in anyway like the manual focus film cameras did. Found auto focus not always as good as shooting manual.
Interesting you should engage such a lovely model to test lenses. I love her big eyes.
My problem with those expensive high end lenses is the price and manual focus. You need a photoshoot type environment and the model "holding stills " pretty much.
I also wonder if you need this kind of sharpness at 1.4. I use a lot of f3.2 or f4 and when I zoom in I can count the eye lashes or skin pores.
I guess for many it is the "feel good" that makes them fork out this kind of money for "the best lens there is".
I believe that this video is basically about comparing the 135mm APO to the 85mm Otus ; the Nikkor 70-200 is thrown in for comparison as many viewer of this channel / video may owned or used it ( Plus , it can be zoomed to 135 mm focal length of the APO). Like many other viewers, I would say a prime like the Nikkor 85mm F1.4 would be better lens from the Nikon camp , but then again it's not a Zeiss vs Nikkor or Prime vs Zoom , so the type of Nikkor does not matter .
My 2 cents .
you should do a Zeiss otus vs kit lens comparison. it would be funny to see just how large of a difference there is.
Haha maybe
Matt, did you shot with 810? Cause maybe the camera is limiting the amount of details here...
+Dmitry Rudoy yes 810
hey Matt, thanks for the "Remarkable" Review. I love seeing your comparisons, they are top-notch. However my Question : is the OTUS 85 better than the LEICA APO 90mm f/2 or the Famed Leica 50mm f/2 APO (world's best 50mm lens in production or any focal length lens for that matter) ? ... yes you said that Otus 85 is better than all leica & hasselblad lenses, but still would like to have a confirmation from you once again, and one reason why it is so ? ... thanks a lot.
+Chirag Parikh you are saying 'world's best 50mm lens in production or any focal length lens for that matter' regarding the Leica - is that a quote or you have tested lots? I have not done head to head of every lens, but best I have ever seen
WOW! The APO is a sharp as a tac. It actually shows so much detail you better have a model with perfect skin or be good with photoshop. LOL It brings out the red eyes ( visine ;-) I will have to invest in some Zeiss glass. I've got the Nikon 70-200 showed in your video and by itself it is a fantastic lens, but the Zeiss is in a different league.
+hawg427 Yeah, you have to consider what you need more: extreme sharpness, or what the 70-200 has: stabilisation, autofocus and zoom. If you have time to slow down and get the shot, and you have the money, then the Zeiss lenses look great!
Out of my price range but great review as always.
See my comment.
These lenses are awesome, wish I could try them but I think I wouldn't even been good enough to properly use them eheh, nice review anyway! :)
Is this Zeiss 135mm that much better than Samyang 135? Please check out the Samyang 135.
Could you imagine a 135mm f/1.4? lol. It would be like 10 lbs. The 135mm f/2 is already the hardest lens to focus I own. (Nikons DC lens) Paper thin DOf. When you nail focus even the Nikkor has crazy detail. Really, really sharp. I'm sure the Zeiss bests it wide open, but these lenses even have great bokeh at smaller apertures. With the 135mm DC lens, f/2.8 or f/3.5 is still real nice and creamy.
+Photo314159 Well, there is at least a F1.8 from Sony/Zeiss ;)
+Photo314159 ZY Optics makes one, it's huge and limited edition
Can you help me with a Zeiss lens for landscape photography? 50/85/135 are all for portraiture.
I would go with the Milvus 2.8/21 for landscapes.
Thanks.
You should definitely consider the sony zeiss 135mm f1.8
So how do they compare to lenses us normal people can afford. Such as Nikkor 180mm ais, tokina 100mm macro, Nikkor 105 ai, Nikkor 85 1.4 G.
Leica sl 50 summilux is easily as sharp and contrasty. Plus autofocus. Best lens I've ever used for sure.
Also, the Leica colours are imho better
Insane how much detail it has at 100%. Great for cropping for sure. However, for model shooting it's just a bit TOO sharp. All the tiny skin bumps and everything look a bit distracting if you ask me. Would love to see thing in a street setting. Shots that sharp on a street must be amazing :)
Matt, do you think the 135mm f/2.0 will get a Milvus makeover?
+Neopulse00 A Zeiss master (interviewed by Matt) once said that the 135 is actually more an Otus. The reason it was not called that way, is because they did not invent that lineup back then when it came out.
Lofote
Interesting. Did not know that. I need to see that vid
I am so on the bubble with the 135mm... I own the 85mm OTUS & my fear is no sooner would I buy the 135 APO that Zeiss would come out with a OTUS variant that would blow it out of the water
In terms of image quality is it better than Nikon's AF DC 135mm f/2D...
+MZ72 Yeah, I'd like to hear about this too, as an excellent condition used Nikon 135/2 can be had for about $800...it's probably not as good as the Zeiss 135/2, but how much is the question.
+MZ72 yes, easily
#Remarkable
+Matt Granger , plz review the nikon 70-300 4.5 -5.6 fx, btw amazing vdo
+Matt Granger How about the Milvus lens?
+Matt Granger did you look at the samyang 135? reviews suggest that its just as sharp as the zeiss
+Joshua Mack get out of town lool
roachman shut up, check reviews
acording to DXO the Zaiss 135mm zf2 on my d810 can deliver 35mg pix out of 36.3 there is onley one more lens on the marked that can do it the 85mm Otus the 55mm otus delivers onley 33mg pix the 50mm Art from sigma can deliver 31 and 35mm Art 29mg pix if we can trust DXO i do but how much you can see in reallife shooting is something different
Rokinon 135mm f2 anyone?? Getting some mighty nice reviews.!
+rafael coreas Rokinon will have around 170-180 degrees of focus. Zeiss has 270 degrees. Also you might expect some stiffness or possibly play in the focus ring with the Rokinon. This makes Zeiss my highest keeper rate lens in terms of manual focusing.
Optically Rokinon is great for the test charts and quite competitive at 1/3rd the price. It's no Zeiss both in use and in terms of output.
+smage85 hmm.... I own the 85 samyang, and concerning focus, i wouldnt want any longer focus throw. I am absolutely able to finetune focus, which is for sure even easier with a longer throw, but when then you need to tweak focus fast, you have a disadvantage again. I would not want a longer focus throw. Id say there is no better.
+rafael coreas Ill buy it as soon as i can afford it....right after...damnit. 400 dollars more for an a7 body..hmmmm. If you have focus peaking, just buy it! Im very happy with the 85 1.4 and im sure i will be with the 135
+smage85 i definitely dont have any stiffness or play in the focus ring with the 85.
....waiting for the Batis 135.....
What is your opinion on the Sony 135 1.8 zeiss lens?
+david miller my friend uses it and loves it - results very good
+Matt Granger thanks for replying back. Have a merry Christmas and thank you for all of your great tutorials.
Review Zeiss Otus compare the Hasselblad lens.
I have heard the Sigma 50 mm Art is so close to the Otus in terms of sharpness that it doesn't really matter. Is that true or not?
+Davis McKinney At f/1.4 the difference is noticeable in the corners, but when stopping down to f/2 you won't see a difference in sharpness. But there are more properties that define a lens. Chromatic aberrations are better controlled by the Otus, bokeh also looks better with harsh background highlights. Vignetting and distortion are better controlled by the Sigma. I have the Sigma 50/1.4 Art by the way (replaced my Sigma EX 50/1.4 at introduction) and it's my workhorse lens. I also have some Zeiss lenses (21/2.8 and 100/2) which I really enjoy to use.
+UCreations Thanks! Because I have the Sigma 50 art as well and was just wondering if there was too much of a difference between it and the Otus.
+Davis McKinney I compared the 55 Otus to the 50 art. It's a very noticeable difference.
+Davis McKinney
And, just think what you can do with the money *instead* of getting a slightly sharper manual focus lens :-)
+Davis McKinney "The Sigma outclasses here almost all other 50 mm devices, including the expensive Nikkor AF-S 58 mm f/1.4 G. How it compares to the sensational Zeiss Otus 1.4/55? The Zeiss was tested on the Nikon D3x which provides MTFs very similar to both EOS bodies, just about 1 lpmm higher. If you deduct that 1 lpmm from the results of the Otus it still remains a bit sharper than the Sigma by f/1.4. By f/2.0, though, the Sigma is better and then the Zeiss is leading again. The differences aren’t big, both lenses being exceedingly sharp, but the Zeiss prevails in that duel."
www.lenstip.com/400.1-Lens_review-Sigma_A_50_mm_f_1.4_DG_HSM_Introduction.html
I have the Zeiss 135/3.5 Sonnar - but the RMC Tokina 135/2.8 is just as good.
Ok so explain this. The bokeh is created when the aperture blades are wide open and are clear of the *ROUND* rear glass of the lens.
So tell me how do the blades or the number of blades effect bokeh? When they are nowhere to be seen wide open!
That’s not the case. Some lenses you see the blades even at maximum aperture. And you don’t have to be wide open to create blur
Today ... B&H is selling Zeiss 135mm f/2 Apo Sonnar for $1,499
I think my Zeiss 135mm f3.5 Sonnar has the best bang per buck... especially as I payed under ten euro's for it!
At 7:10 ... Fan-freaking-tastic incredibly gorgeous shot... Stopped me in my tracks..
Thats really cool, but putting a zoom lens, 2.8, against a couple really good prime lenses isn't that fair hahaha I would love to see comparing those lenses to Canon 85mm 1.2 and 50mm 1.4 Sigma Art :D Great review, cheers.
The 85 1.2 canon is nooooo way near the quality. It's bokeh only.
+Matt Granger Yeah, I've heard that. Funny how a lens can be that expensive and soft. I'd rather have 85 1.8
+Stephan Eilert Steve....I think the 70-200 was in there just as a benchmark because so many of us are familiar with it...in that way we get a better idea of just how good the primes are.
Is it weird that I came back to this video to see Irene? :D
85 vs 135 are too different focal length. You could make use of both of these lenses.
a 135mm 1.4 would be a positively enormous lens. It's likely that compromise that made Zeiss go with an f2. This lens has long been on my wishlist. It's not a must have lens which is the ONLY reason it's not in my kit. But if I had a spare $1.5k or so, it would be in the top 3 things I would purchase.
+trevorpinnocky petapixel.com/2015/10/19/mitakon-speedmaster-135mm-f1-4-2999-gets-you-the-worlds-fastest-135mm/
Matt Granger I spied that a while back. It's an 'intriguing' proposition. I think a Zeiss 135mm 1.4 would be even larger, given their exacting standards. And looking at the amount of vignette in the Mitakon, one has to wonder whether it's truly a 1.4 :)
+trevorpinnocky remember F stops do not = T stops
Matt Granger True, but from an expectation point of view, if the consumer purchases the lens expecting to use f 1.4 and finds there is 1-2 stops light loss in the corners, then the manufacturer is being a little misleading.
+trevorpinnocky I own a Zeiss 135mm APO + Zeiss Otis 85mm + 14-24mm/2.8 + 24-70mm/2.8 and a Nikon 810 and my (big) backpack weighs 11.3 kg without a tripod. Do you understand what I mean?
Well......Can't afford any of these......
+老刘 Luckily most 135mm primes are crazy good. The Samyang 135/2 is creap and reeeeally sharp (and manual).
Buy a Nikon 135DC, around 850$ or a Nikon AIS 85 1.4, around 500$. Equal to any of the 4k$ Zeiss lenses and the 135DC has AF as a bonus.
Too bad Zeiss never made a ZE/ZF.2 version of their Contax APO Sonnar 2/200. They otherwise repackaged several of their Contax Zeiss lenses for Nikon or Canon.
In the end they charge +4.000 for Otus lenses, the 2/200 in that price range would have also found it’s clients.