Is Profoto's Glass Dome for B1's and D1's Worthless?
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- A big complaint about Profoto's B1's and D1's is the recessed bulb. Profoto makes a glass dome that's supposed to help that problem but does it really make a difference?
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The frosted domes actually do different light, but not under those conditions. The tests are not designed well in the sense that the differences will not show. Long story short: the dome diffuses the hard flashtube light. If you use more diffusers (softbox, white beauty dish), the difference will be totally "drowned". The dome is only useful in HARD LIGHT MODIFIERS (silver beauty dish, magnum, zoomreflector, ...). One other difference: the light comes out at an angle wider than 180 degrees (quasi omnidirectional), and therefore can "fill" silver umbrellas way better than the flat diffuser. Hope it helps clarify.
Love your work Chris
+1 here. I think these tests are misguided, and don’t really show what the device is designed for. Also, you completely missed how the light coming from the side in the beauty dish has completely changed. In one, barely any is hitting the background. In the other, loads is. In widezooms, magnums etc this will have a huge difference, and will allow much more of the zoom range to be available than normally is with flat dome lights.
@@KristofferPaulsen Couldn't agree more. And if you want to be picky, and if you pay Profoto prices you certainly are, in hard modifiers, the flat front will create two separate light sources (there's like a "dark donut" inside the reflector around the light head), which means that you actually get double shadows... And no one wants that...
@@KristofferPaulsen could you do a video with a better test?
@@68Snaps Double shadow? Can you do a video demonstrating this?
Here is the thing.... the Profoto Pro series, Acute series , and the compact series all have the same type of design, with the flashtube placed outside of the unit by about 1/2 inch to the front- along with a frosted dome cover. With this type of design, the entire flashtube is outside of the actual flash body (therefore, not recessed. This gives more options for zooming the flash output based on the type of reflectors used along with how much that reflector is pushed in or out on the flash body. However, when using a softbox with either of these model types (recessed or outside flashbulb design) one will not notice a significant difference, if any difference at all, since the softbox has diffusion panels which will soften the light down significantly, and one will not really notice a hot spot in the center. The only slight advantage, if you can even call it an advantage, that a recessed flash tube design has over a protruding outside flashtube placement is that the recessed designed units will create a brighter hotspot in the middle when used with reflectors.
The major differences that one will notice will be when using other light modifiers other than a softbox, such as with reflector types, and magnum reflectors and such. This recessed design of the B 1's and D 1's are designed so that the the flash output is thrown directly forward. On these recessed models, the throw of light is designed to go forward only- Whether you place a flat disk glass or a frosted dome cover on the B 1's and D 1's designs makes very little difference, since the flashtube is recessed into the body the flash output is directed ahead only. With the light going forward only, used with most reflectors, one will get a hotspot in the center. Now, if you compare the recessed design with the pro series, acute series and compact series outside flashtube design, due to the zooming in or out nature of the models with an outward flashtube design, you will see a major difference between these two designs (recessed and outside flashtube placement. For instance, when using the B 1's and D 1's with a magnum reflector, you will not get the same increase in output of the flash that you will get with the units with the outside flashtube designed units. Using the B 1's and D 1's with a magnum reflector will give you more of a hot spot in the center than using the magnum reflector with the outside flashtube designs. The other thing is, using a magnum reflector on the outside flash models will give you approximately a 2 stop gain, whereas the recessed flash units would provide about 1 and 1/4 max gain, with a brighter hotspot in the middle. Going even further- using a B 1 or D 1 series in a parabolic soft zoom reflector is pretty much useless. The parabolic reflectors will work great with the Pro series, acute series, and will provide a super hard light and soft light effect that is used for fashion photography.
To summarize, the B 1's and D's have a flat disk frosted glass, so replacing with a frosted protruding dome will not provide any real noticeable difference, especially when used inside of a softbox.
i have a Para 133 broncolor with a profoto D1 inside with a Profoto glass dome and there is a big difference of light, the glass dome is a very good thing !!! this test is very subjectif !!! i confirm " you are more of a blogger than an actual photographer" !
Does the para 133 have the flash face backwards or does it fire forward? I'm about to revisit this test and want to include more tests. As with most things in my photographic career, if I run a test side by side I can often see a difference but that doesn't mean in the real world I would ever notice or miss that teeny tiny minuscule difference I noticed doing the test.
It's a lot like getting guitar tones. One amp will sound slight different than another in an isolated situation (or pickups, or guitars, or whatever), but once you apply that sound to a live band settting, suddenly the differences are so small you hardly recognize them and the audience def doesn't notice it at all.
With photography I find this to be true too. I remember going to photo shows where Broncolor ambassadors would rave about the fabric weave on those Para reflectors and how the specular highlights they create fill in shadows on the skin and blah blah. It technically may do that in a studio test where you are looking for it, but the second you do a real world photoshoot and send off those images to a retoucher, it becomes apparent it's all bullshit marketing. No normal person or even a trained professional will ever notice the specular fill light on skin that has been professionally retouched. Instead what people notice is the model, her beauty, her expression, her hair and makeup, the text around the image, the theme, the production, and if it's just an attention grabbing image. The fabric of the modifier is like .5% of what makes an image successful or a failure. -P
I know this is a lighting comparison, but those portaits looked great and the D850's files looked soooo good.
I've been saying this for years. Also, the margins on the dome are ridiculous, I'd guess it costs them ~$5-10 to make. Godox is going to eat their lunch.
I wish you had tested it further against an Acute or Compact head with the protruding flashtube. I'd guess it fills a softbox and beauty dish better.
Interesting, I do see a softer transition in the shadows with the glass dome, but prob. only if you're pixel peeping.
I agree!
same .. but yeah its very subtle .... for sure wasn't expecting the color diff though
Great comparison. It is obvious, that the glass dome doesn't make a big difference. But what if you compared a Profoto B1 with e.g. a Broncolor Siros having the whole light bulb free? I would very interested to see the difference of these two systems.
Great video Patrick! One reason why I am such an FStoppers fan is how you're unbiased and put your honest opinions on products and not just review products and recommend them with affiliate links. -TJ
TJ Perez thanks! Don't get me wrong, I love Profoto stuff and they make my favorite lighting system (that I use on a weekly basis) but I was always curious to run this test.
Patrick Hall yeah I am the same way with various photography stuff! For my budget I will get the flashpoint xplor 600 for the time being!
Great comparison. To me, the dome produces noticeably softer light.
I've had these for years. Both types. My white beauty dish with a grid does not give even lighting but modified with a dome the result is much more even. ..tested at 3-10-ft on a plain flat wall. So yes, I do use the domed units with the beauty dishes for a more even light spread. The light spread/evenness with a magnum reflector will differ too I expect. All of these issues become much more apparent when you shoot larger areas of an exact plain colour-eg white. The test used here is, in my opinion, very undemanding of the light sources.
So the one issue that I’m having with the glass dome versus the flat cover is that the bulb itself is still recessed. The test isn’t that inclusive considering the placement of the bulb. Yes the glass dome does make it a little softer however it’s not making a huge impact here due to the position of the bulb in the unit.
Thank you! This test proves nothing aside from he doesn't know how geometry works
@@justinoff1 I'm going to revisit this test again. I'm going to do way more tests and fix this issue. -P
@@FStoppers shoot a white wall. You'll see a dead spot in the middle whereas it should look like a spotted fresnel that graduates out from center. Profoto is really neglecting the professional market. I went through three twin heads last week because old twin heads need to be modified to work with pro 8'- 11s and they just burn up quickly ESPECIALLY If you're using the modeling lamp. Profile has no intentions of releasing an updated twin head, which is a crime.
Interesting, thanks for sharing! I think it will make a difference, if you do not use a cloth for the softbox and if you don't use the metal disc of the beauty dish.
I've previously seen someone mention how without the dome their 5' octa behaved like a 3' octa, and that they really saw an improvement when adding it there. Maybe try this again with that 7' foot octa from the previous video you did.
I think the difference is there. Definitely worth it.
Exactly, I actually bought two domes after seeing this video.
The side by side at the end was telling the dome was definitely bringing out the properties of the soft box in the correct way. The slightly warmer skin tones the softer transitions in the shadow were all more accurate to what the box is supposed to do. The fact that the Light shot with the disc had a huge hotspot in the middle and hotspots around the edge does not mean the disc can fill the soft box properly it means the exact opposite in fact.
Great to see there isn't that much of a difference.
Now what I would like to see is a comparison between a lamp like the Elinchrom ELC and the Profoto D whatever...
The Elinchrom strobes have a 180 degrees light output that should fill the light modifier completely where the Profoto's should only bring light to the front.
Then, use a large octa and a striplight for the test.
I think the Elinchrom will spread the light more evenly, but we only know after a test.
Great test I’m really surprised
Of this result, but to be fair you need to test it with a conventional profoto
Head I guarantee you that there is a big difference there. So start testing again please then I will really satisfied.
frosted glass domes are not meant for softboxes, umbrellas or other diffused light modifiers.
They can show an big difference in shadows with highly reflective metallic modifiers, deep bowls, true parabolic modifiers without diffuser, bare bulb flash with black v-flats... This difference is even bigger on shadows on the backdrop.
One thing you did that I don't do is where you place the modifier. You went all the way back, I typically place mine between position #4 and #5.
Patrick, from my experiences of shooting super directional flashes (speedlights) vs studio strobes into modifiers, the most indistinguishable modifier when shooting subjects is the softbox, whereas the umbrella is the most noticeable (especially reflective silver) but the inverse is true when shooting modifiers (analysing blown out areas in ps) therefore your conclusion could be directionality of light source has little effect on quality of light on subject through a softbox since they are essentially more light efficient, easy set up, no spill and less fiddly scrims.
Btw from my experience shooting speedlights into double diffused softboxes, the only peculiarity I noticed is that in the catchlight I can see the outline of the inner baffle within the larger catchlight of the outer baffle which IMHO is even more ugly and distracting than the split petal/pie catchlight I get from shooting speedlights into silver umbrella perhaps due to its organic shape (square). Does the B1 exhibit any of these? Too bad I can't post sample images in comments.
There is a difference. The dome softens the highlights as well as opens the shadow ever so slightly. the dome is foe much bigger umbrella like the 8 footer where the difference is more noticeable. Also as you stated the dome is warmer. Thanks for the video.
Nice comparison, but being a light fetishist myself it's pretty much what I expected. A frosted dome will make a slight improvement, but very little - as the flash tube is still throwing the light out the front, the new dome just distributing to the sides a little bit. The real difference and interesting comparison I would expect to be with a protruding flash tube.
Look at the light that Profoto flashes deliver, and look at all the amazing photographers using Profoto flashes. You know its not the flash tube that is going to be your problem using Profoto, you can create any look you like and it is not going to be the gear that is the problem here.
I find the color shift the most important difference that one really (if you are nerdy enough) needs to be aware of. Sure, if you use only one light you won't have any problemt, but as soon as you start to mix light sources with different colours it starts to matter quite alot. White balance in post is a global parameter, so when one temperature is fixed another is "wrong". For skin, this can be quite tedious... This can of course happen by other reasons like different power levels or dirty softboxes. But anyho - interesting to see!
Besides that
With big modifiers like a parabolic umbrella, for example, the difference should be more clear.
Agreed, the light hitting the disk on a beauty dish and the inner diffusion of the soft box will spread the light regardless of the dome. A better test would be to use a large reflective umbrella such as westcotts 7ft parabolic, this would change the spread pattern and possibly the look.
The shadow on the nose appears to be a touch brighter due to the subtle shift in her head. There was no real difference anywhere else in the shadows.
did u set a custom white balance before shooting.....
big difference in highlights with silver reflectors or silver beauty. if you use white diffusers the main difference is in the shadows. overall, dome if you eant soft highlits and less contrast in shadows, no dome if you want more punch
Do you think the dome would help distribute the light more evenly, with less pronounced hot spot when shooting through big white umbrella? Thank you.
you have to try the umbrella because I’ve notice that the d2 1000w even at 10 cant’t spread light so much so the umbrella deep small has a central spot in the middle, the small spot is the same in size even if you use the umbrella large, but I don’t know if this hard transition between hard spot and dark part of the umbrella affects the image. try to use a dome (is better the cold version)
Why not paring them with the para umbrellas, balls etc?
Thanks guys! Was curious about this. Must be so damn frustrating with all these “pros” in the comment section who know better LOL. If you have to zoom in to see a difference then there’s not enough of a difference to even acknowledge it smh. What do I know? I’m not a pro. Just a hobbyist :) that’s why “photographers” are annoying AF. Glad you took photos with a model and not a freakin white wall. Frickin useless reviews bc I don’t shoot walls for a living. Lol
Wrong. Its because if people buy big modifiers, having a light that doesnt use it properly means it is a waste of money to get. It's like getting an 7 foot buy the light makes it as if you only got a 5ft. in terms of softness or light spread.
Flash tube is still recessed, all it’s doing is lowering the efficiency a bit. Most of the light is still just going straight through the middle of the dome.
well said
yeah and the pictures really suck because of it....oh wait....@@charlieschmidt9668
@@mavfan1 you have low standards
The biggest difference is with a Narrow Beam reflector or Magnum type reflectors.
I prefer the warmer look. And the highlights are slightly more diffused. So I'd go with the dome. I think there's enough of a difference in the highlights. Do you need the dome? Hell no. But I'd want it.
Can't wait until Patrick and Lee have more travel vlogs.
Travis Kraft currently traveling in Patagonia...oh they are coming my friend :)
Nice to see you here travis
The difference is not worth the $200 for a frosted dome. Saved me $400 Fstoppers.
I'm getting ready to order the dome myself. At 183 bucks it's a maybe but I don't want it for beauty dishes or softboxes. My problem is that I have just invested in my first parabolic reflector. The Parobolix 35D and going to order the 45 soon. I'm not sure if it will really make a difference with a parabolic. Though $183 is expensive for a chunk of glass it very well may be worth it to get full use out of a light kit that cost over a grand.
Do you have any ideas about the difference it might make with a parabolic? Would I be tossing 183 bucks to the wind?
Did the dome make a difference for your Parabolix 35 or 45? I've been eyeing the Parabolix 55 or 65 to use with a Profoto B1x, but I'm not sure if I need the dome.
@@andrewra1416 it doesn't "feel" like it makes a difference and it's a pain to get on and off. I'd prefer a bare flash tube but all my Profoto lights are flat face.
@@BarryKidd Thanks for the response. Interesting~ heard the difference of using a dome is more noticeable with larger parabolic reflectors so I'm a little surprised to hear that there wasn't a noticeable difference!
@@andrewra1416 can't say. I only have two true parobolics. I never did get the 45. I went for the 20 and love it. I wishh I had a pro head for them though. Perhaps one of these days but a Pro 10 pack and Pro Plus Heads are really outside of my budget for the type of, and kind of, work that I do. Way outside of it. Plus, all of my work is location and assignment work. Zero studio stuff. It'd be nice but I really can't justify the cost.
Perhaps I'll get that 45 parobolic one day but for now I need to save.
Nice comparison. I guess the dome one consumes a little bit more power. So I think the exposures of the two were slightly different. You could try to set the them differently, then compare them in Lightroom. Or try to set the recess one 1/10 or 2/10 stops lower on the power of the B1/D1. I find that Lightroom gives the worst skin tone on Nikon cameras under Profoto strobes. I use Capture NX-D or Capture One for comparison.
There absolutely is a difference. You just have to look at the light hitting her chest and also what's going on on the background in that beauty dish shot.
The only reason we use the glass dome for the b1 is, when we shoot with a broncolor paralight.
You can really see a difference there, but I wouldnt use it for anything else, because it doesnt make a noticeable difference.
Profoto has made videos of the intended use of the domes and the differences with and without. I would go to the source and watch the demonstrations rather than this rather misguided "test" that doesn't IMO ask the right questions.
Link to one of these videos? I've talked with Profoto and been around countless photoshoots with well known photographers who use the dome. In my example, I just couldn't see that big of a difference. I'd love to be wrong though since I WANT this product to make a difference but I haven't found a big enough difference to require it in my bag. -P
@@FStoppers if it doesn’t make a big enough difference for you to use it, that’s cool. Your video doesn’t actually show the differences in my opinion though. Here’s one video I watched recently that has more relevant info. ua-cam.com/video/TwXSYlFCBec/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/8mnr3RHhjZU/v-deo.html
@@FStoppers ua-cam.com/video/8mnr3RHhjZU/v-deo.html
with the dome the images are a bit softer/less contrasty
I do like the look of new the bulb much more, because, I do hate strong not softened Flash Photography becouse of the bright blue light in the strobed spot, the new insert makes a big difference for me, it looks much more sweet and the color shift is making me change my mind ( i know you coul cólour balance the another flash, but.. the new one makes it at it own :) )
It is that subtle difference that all are talking about. I dont think no one expected softbox to become a beauty dish without the dome.
Nice vid, you probably saved me about a thousand dollars in the future. Any chance you can compare the flash duration of the 500w & 1000w Profoto D2s, and how much of a difference in performance the power difference actually makes in your ability to freeze action. I’ve yet to see a video on this.
The glass attenuates the light all around, so the blown out histogram test might be skewed somewhat.
expected results. I'd say better color with the dome. Light spread in the octagon much better. Is it worth it? Doubt that most users could justify the expense. Yet again Profoto users or any other big name are used to excessive prices. With my Broncolor heads one has to be crazy not to use a Pyrex dome as Broncolor mounts are crap compared to Profoto. Broncolor has many options in color and frost for domes, all very expensive.
The dome will give you more variation with the zoom reflector and, if you have the spare several thousand £$€, essential to get full function out of a Broncolor Para.
These look completely different! (Forget color - that's easy to fix) How can you say they look the same? The light quality is very, very different. Without meaning to, you sold me on the glass dome!
Same here, he sold me on the glassdome as well! Funny how he constantly points out how little difference there is, although comparing the softlighter shot the difference is night and day, it went from a bland picture to a beautiful shot with just adding the dome.
The difference is huge when using the dome with a large deep silver umbrella.
I think the dome was far superior. I do not think it was negligible. Especially when multiplying it out by hundreds of images to edit.
I think you need to test it with larger softboxes or umbrellas, you're not really going to find a difference with small to mid size modifiers. I'm of the opinion that it might not make any perceivable difference.
The difference is definitely there, it’s distinctive.
Neither version fills the reflector as well as a light with a protrudng flashtube. A definite design fault in Profoto lights.
already clear difference with the mid-size Softbox ... sadly with Profoto's more mobile B10m B10+ flashes no option...regardless of their more narrower angle... for me weight counts to be mobile...so sadly Profoto not an option anymore...
On this level of gear, it´s all about nuances. Yes, the light direction is the same, but the quality and intensity is different between with or without the dome. It´s kind of disappointing, that Fstoppers is really publishing a video like this, saying, that there is basically no difference. What is coming next?! Why to buy a Phase One XF, when you can also make photos with your iPhone. Uhm, really?!
Not so much difference in these tests. Would be interested to see if any diff with the Profoto XL & L umbrellas.
There was a remarkable difference in the clipping warning in LR. that indicates much better evenness. it would be that much more important in a big XL umbrella, or if used in bare bulb. Fall off in reflectors like the Magnum could also have better spread, something to be tested.
If we zoom in here (Rofl) hehe...
Come on, grow up ....... I was thinking the same thing hahaha
LOL!
I was doing a shoot once and I used the digital zoom feature to double check focus on her face... the square just happened to be RIGHT in the crack of their cleavage....Definitely wasn't expecting it so I burst out laughing
5:54
Oh boy... Where do I start? Maybe with the fact that the dome you're using is obviously one that is designed to change the color output. There's 101561 which is the regular dome, 101563 wich changes the color output to -300K and 101562 which changes the output to -600K. Futhermore these domes are NOT designed for small reflectors and softboxes but for large light modifiers. For example the XL umbrellas.
Apart from that the beauty dish clearly had a different light with the dome - you can even see a substantial change in the background.
I like the falloff of the plate vs. the dome. It's all subjective though.
Might have been easier to see a difference in black and white.
Strange to suggest square space made this video possible. As with most reviews out there I’m sure you could have posted the review without their involvement.
I think the advantages of the dome are in a bare bulb. You should test that. Also try the beauty dish test with out the plate on the bulb and with the plate on the recessed plate glass. Hope that makes sense. I love FSoppers. But you guys think you know it all. Just kidding!!!!
Tony Rivera You are spot on.
Look at the light that Profoto flashes deliver, and look at all the amazing photographers using Profoto flashes. You know its not the flash tube that is going to be your problem using Profoto, you can create any look you like and it is not going to be the gear that is the problem here.
The dome should use with parabolic reflector
This is why the color checker passport is necessary
Color shift, subtle color changes from lenses, color shifts from the diffusion material in the softbox. Nothing is perfect.
Well done.
Totally negligable. When you have that much power blasting (strobe) through relatively small modifiers, there's just no way its going to make enough of a difference to warrant switching plate to dome.
Absolute rubbish ...try it with a Silver dish or a 7ft giant reflector ! and get your model away from the flashtube ? point the Beauty dish against a wall ,with and without and observe its obvious, of course it makes a difference and the bigger the lit area the more it makes a difference,, also the zoom function on most Profoto reflectors simply doesn't work as Profoto themselves have mapped them out (output digrams on the reflector throat) .Then pop your flat head on a 1x6 stripbox and you might as well have bought a 1x3 the fall off is dramatic ..
Interesting that the community thinks the dome is both softer and provide higher quality light. I honestly can't see a significant difference (other than WB). Personally, I even wonder if the relative (minor) difference between locations of the model and the octabox at 3:40 and 4:12 could make more of an impact.
The dome is softer right from the start.
Your lack of ability to see the difference really has me thinking you are more of a blogger than an actual photographer. I can definitely see the difference.
Thank you for saving me $200
I've been a professional lighting designer in Hollywood for 20 years now, and people claiming this test is "misguided" aren't making much sense. This is one test of basically an infinite amount of tests you can do with this frosted dome, given the many, many modifiers available for strobe heads. The dome will spread the light around a bit more, but not make enough of a difference for it to matter, in the long run. (Now, I won't tell the client that, I will indulge them in order to preserve my job). I would go so far as to say that most photographers will claim otherwise and this mindset can be illustrated by: photographers (most, not all) are basically the only people that will walk into an art gallery, walk right up to a photo (too close to view the picture) and look for pixels, flaws, etc... On the other hand I get it, these companies have to stay in business and continually improve their products, so they definitely have to sell as much as possible.
Patrick , nice little test . Great video to watch . Thank you .
With the glass dome the model look more skinnier.
The glass dome is the clear winner in this comparison - IMHO.
Not that it matters the slightest. But that Lady is a solid 9. :P
how can you say they look almost identical ?
the differences are VERY evident.
much better the dome with the softbox.
if you say "negligible" this video is a joke.
REGARDS.
I see a difference ...
What can you expect from profoto fanboys?
This video is idiotic. You're operating under the assumption the glass dome works. It doesn't. A recessed flash tube is a recessed flash tube. Next time test with a Pro 8 head and you'll see a difference in mola dishes , beauty dishes and Ellenchrome.
Please stop comparing apples to apples for comparison sake...
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