In the video the touch this subject. That people that are used to stalks prefer those to the buttons. But the younger kids that goes to drivingschool rather use buttons that stalks.
@@tobiasforsberg2497 How would you prefer to "not know at any time where the button/switch/lever for blinking is"? Instead of knowing that it is on a stalk left to the wheel, where you know the position.
@@colla555 While your point is largely valid, you nearly always know where your steering wheel position is. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to focus on road or steer. It may be clumsier to move hands to different positions every time you want to blinker but you do know where the buttons are every time - clearly, if there is feedback that it's easy for new learners then it shows it doesn't really matter.
I totally don’t get the purpose of placing the SEXY buttons on the back side of the steering wheel? They still rotate with the wheel, making them hard to find when wheel is turned.
I put a small, 1-2 mm thick sticker on the button for the right indicator, which is the one you always use when exiting a roundabout (Norway). Really don’t have any issues with the missing stalks now, it’s dirt cheap (actually came with a roof lamp I installed in the bedroom, so it was actually kind of free) and I don’t risky any issues with Tesla regarding the warranty as I keep well away from the OBD-port 😊 Super easy to spot just by glaring slightly downwards in case I don’t feel it with my hand.
For left turns the button on the steering wheel works fine, for right turns I have a sexy button in the 'V' at the bottom of the steering wheel. This works perfectly on roundabouts. And I should know, I live in the Netherlands with a lot of roundabouts 😀
Not only are removal of the indicator stalk annoying, but the usage of the new buttons are also annoying. When pressing, if I miss slightly, nothing happens. Arrgghhh
Same here. Wish they'd put on litle bumps for tactile feedback so i press in the wanted spot. Was already thinking of getting a transparent, very thin, sticker made with little bumps in the center of the indicator/highbeam and wiper/camera/voice buttons. Maybe some Chinese already makes these. If anyone knows any, let me know. edit: and a double bump on the right indicator to easier find it in a roundabout situation.
Like shift paddles which stay in position. But why there no complaints about shift paddles, which are fixed to the steering wheel in other cars. 🤔 It should also be irritating... I'm coming from ordinary shifters to a 2021 tesla. And I love my M3P! I will try the s3xy buttons with my M3P. Maybe there is a benefit. 😅
I've had the Model S for over 7 years with stalks, in addition a Model 3 2021 with stalks and the model 3 highland without stalks. The first two hours I needed a little bit of more focus in turnabouts but afterwards no problem at all. Having a blinker on every side isn't replacing the stalks, especially if you have always remember which side you need to use. So they change the position as well. Same problem with ferrari back in the day. Of course not that relevant if you are on a track day and using the 9-15 position. In my case no reason for ugly, expensive buttons. Heating batt. isn't helping either and now that the high beam auto function is better there isn't a single reason to buy the sexy buttons in my case.
Wonder if Ferrari stopped again? You see Ferrari cars as every day driven cars? How can you say heating battery doesn't help if your using non-Tesla chargers? Auto beam still sucks big time as its so far from perfect as anything can be. S3XY will let you use hi/dim 100% manual, kill the flawed wipers and let you control the speed. Then you get ban-prevention so if your doing 140,001 Km/h it will disable autopilot instead of the kindergarten of Tesla where you have to stop to be able to use more than TACC. Seems like you doesn't know a lot about how fantastic a saviour the buttons/knob/commander actually works by such statement.
My reasons for s3xy buttons are: Long hold door handle for charge port release and frunk open. Drift mode. And Auto-wipers Off, due to RainX treatment.
I just got the model 3 highland and after 2 days I’m used to the stalkless design and tbh no big deal , it works fine ! Even so I can tell it’s even better !
Wouldn’t you have the same issue of a deploying steering wheel airbag if you’re caught in an accident within the roundabout with his driving style? (arm stretched across the steering wheel). Like others that commented, the buttons just continue the same ‘mindset inconvenience’, the ideal solution is steer by wire … come on Tesla, make it happen.
You could place the buttons on the steering wheel and then they will always be on the same position and your hands won't cross over the steering wheel for any reason. When going left I was thought that my left hand should stay in place and by moving the wheel with my right hand every 5-10 cm to grab it with the left then move my right back to 15 o'clock, mostly like how Bjorn does it.
The only solution I find helpful is to glue some small object on the "turn right" button on the steering wheel, like them transparent little thingies they use in the furniture as bumpers for cabinet doors. One may then intuitively press it while leaving the roundabout.
Entertaining video. I’m not going to change how I steer through roundabouts, I don’t like arms crossing the steering wheel. Also, I like traditional stalks, and I’m going to continue purchase cars that provide stalks. Younger generations can do what they want. 😊
For left turns the button on the steering wheel works fine, for right turns I have a sexy button in the 'V' at the bottom of the steering wheel. This works perfectly on roundabouts. And I should know, I live in the Netherlands with a lot of roundabouts 😀
Great idea Bjorn. So many of us had their licence years ago and so many things have changed in those decades. Thank you. Do you have a link for your discount on sexy buttons
The blinker buttons always work in any orientation if you consider them as clockwise / counterclockwise. If you are signaling right you press button in the clockwise position no matter where the wheel is.
Elon has said FSD is coming next year, every year since 2017. All teslas made before 2022-2023 ish, will never be able to use FSD (if tesla ever delivers it) because the cars are limited by the hardware. There are hundreds of thousands people who paid $10k for FSD, but will never have it because of hardware limitions and tesla don't do refunds, and they can't transfer the FSD purchase if they buy a new car. Elon is a grifter, and this is a lawsuit in the making.
There is a reason why stalks were invented. Typical Musk engineers trying to reinvent the wheel (quite literally) when there was no need to. Always been taught never cross your hands on a steering wheel as you have less control. Slide the wheel between your hands on sharp turns.
Im not one of those 'i need buttons' types. Ive had several Teslas now so i feel i can comment. But this was a completely daft aesthetic choice for european roads where roundabouts are everywhere. European driving can be quite intense due to small complex roads and heavy traffic. Im sure id get used to it, but i know my wife (who is already totally not a fan of my pre highland Tesla) would just refuse to drive it. Which predetermines my next choice of car - who will drive me home from the pub if the car has no indicator stalks?! 😂 Also, given the lamentable performance of the wipers, a button is essential, and having it moving around with the steering is just an awful decision for this specific car. Same for 3 point turns without a straightforward gear selector - just fiddly when turning in a narrow european street (allied to the massive turning circle and soft fragile kerb seeking alloys common to most teslas). Finally, seeing Elon do his cringe thing at a Trump rally, in front of a bunch of coal rollers (who says they don't get irony?!) is slowly pushing me into the arms of the Chinese EV market. Teslas PR department (if it hasn't been sacked to save money) must be livid - way to go alienating a sizeable export market when the uptake of EV is at a crossroads of doubt and misinformation. Im surprised this design achieved homologation in our market, to be honest.
Yes but no, you don't need a free hand to operate a stalk. Just stick out a finger at the right time on the roundabout, and it will operate the stalk by the wheel movement.
I've always thought the blinker button on the steering wheel should blink when in operation. Still not as good as stalks, but at least a quick glance at the steering wheel would show you which direction you are indicating.
Uhm, there's a green blinking arrow on the screen. Easier to spot than to look at the steering wheel arrow blinking. They could probably do this with software though. I wouldn't be opposed to it.
That way of holding the wheel does not work well with stalks if you are turning left on roundabout (here in UK and leaving exit), as your left hand would be on wheel on the left with “free” right hand but your stalk is on the left, so you have to move hands from that position. This only works if you hold wheel like that, so many people will have to retrain to do it as I’ve tried on commute after watching video and not that easy but I guess doable (but not sure that much more doable than learning to hit right buttons on front of wheel after a while… 🤷♂️. Interesting that young learners/kids prefer buttons… 😊
Problem is students wouldn't be able to transfer this training to other vehicles. Regions should remove a 5 star saftey rating if no indicator stalks, would put the issue to bed.
If only they'd make 'little bumps' on the buttons so you'd actually feel where to press exactly. I pretty often miss the button eventhough i pressed it. Indicators are doable as the have the little speedbump between them. But a little dot on the highbeams/camera would be nice for tactile feedback.
Did you listen? The driving instructor said, right in this video, that young drivers actually prefer the touch buttons on the steering wheel to stalks on cars that have both.
@@celeron55 The same instructor also installed S3XY Buttons to improve non stalk solution that Tesla came up with. Driving schools should use cars with stalks and if the driver later choose to drive car without, that is his own preferance.
You can already get add-on indicator stalks for the model 3. I don’t think this is the biggest detractor for the new model 3 though - it’s the high leasing costs. At least here in the UK you can lease considerably more expensive EVs for much lower monthly payments than a model 3 due to poor residual value forecasts.
@@zilla85 I think in france and netherlands they also indicate on entering. For example they want to leave on the third exit (left side when entering) they set the indicator to left so others see where they want to exit. Sorry for bad english, don't know how to explain it better.
@@zilla85 Ich hab mir das auch angewöhnt aber kann mich nicht erinnern wie das in der Fahrschule gelehrt wurde. Meinen Führerschein habe ich 1994 gemacht, da gab es in meiner Gegend noch keine Kreisverkehre :D Da ich grenznah zum Elsass wohne ist mir das aufgefallen bei den Franzosen. So dumm ist das auch gar nicht, dann sehen die wartenden das du weiter fährst und reduziert die Unfallgefahr. Weiter unten gib es noch einen Kommentar dazu.
Tesla need to stop trying to invent the wheel. These button/ switch things are just rubbish idea. Next they will scrap buttons and put indications on the voice control system. It’s all to save production costs.
I was taught to drive in the UK and to keep my hands on the steering wheel at all times, and slide the steering wheel through my hands when turning, so my hand is always in the correct position to cancel or change the indicator. I also thought you should keep your thumbs out of the steering wheel just in case you have an accident and the wheel turns quickly. The buttons on the steering wheel and also the 3exy buttons look awkward to use.
In Germany, I was taught to grip over in tight manoeuvering. Thumbs stay out of the wheel. “Feeding the wheel“ aka “Granny Steering” is considered wrong here.
I had the same idea that the indicator buttons should be placed where they put the sexy buttons. Dont understand why T did what they did, may be because EM has gone to the "Dark Side" ? Maybe we should call him Darth Musk
I thought it would be a problem, but after a week of having a highland, for me ‘stalkgate’ is not an issue anymore, I’m used to it (yes, also roundabouts / EU). That being said stalks is just more simple and makes more sense. But I don’t see the need for aftermarket stalks.
I'm yet to be convinced. In fact I'm absolutely not going to be convinced. I have 45 years experience with stalks. If Tesla want to sell me a car they have to stop being so arrogant and bring back the indicator stalk. My 1967 Beetle had an indicator stalk and EVERY SINGLE CAR I've driven since. (Perhaps that's 70 different models.) No stalk.. No buy.! (I've also sold my Tesla shares.)
I think that a sort of dress for the column, that has a stalk is feasible, and using the s3xy button behind it. Sort of a 3D printed thing one can attach, and a few soldered wires to the s3xy buttons.
I drive much smoother with regen (B mode in my VW) since the smooth transition between acceleration and deceleration. And Teslas can't do brake blending, meaning coasting=no regen. The brake pedal activates the brakes only while every other branded EV can transition smoothly between regen and actual braking with the good old brake pedal.
Are you really blinking left on the runabouts in Norway? WOW!
2 місяці тому
Here in Sweden the left blink is only considered "nice" and not a rule. Blinking out of the round-about though is the law. (For some reason I was tought in my driving school that I do NOT need to blink if my lane is splitting into two... which you can sort of think of the exit from a round-about as. But whatever)
In Switzerland we're taught that you are not supposed to indicate left in a roundabout at all. You only start indicating right after you pass the median of the exit before the one you want to take. (Also multi-lane roundabouts are an abomination and should not be built, but that's my personal opinion)
I actually kinda like the buttons on the wheel, without the stalk, just because it means driving one handed is easier xD But the shift leaver being removed fucking sucks ass, I love my 2021 model 3 just because of how it easy it is to drive and maneuver. Also I always drive in chill mode now if doing regular driving, only switch out for merging onto highways and overtaking, easy to switch with multi function menu with left scroll wheel
Tesla doesn't do any of this to make it user-friendly, but only to make it cheaper to manufacture. They have a big screen anyway, so the more buttons they can integrate into the screen the less money and installation time they need on extra buttons and wiring. The blinker could not safely be integrated into the screen, but by putting two small buttons next to each other they made it much cheaper than a stalk.
Still think that whole discussion is well overcooked. The only thing i complain about is the bad feedback from the steering wheel buttons in the 3. Why didn't they just put in regular clicky buttons...
Configure both buttons to "1 click" = blink right... 2 clicks = blink left.... then you just need to hit one of the buttons to get out of round abouts.... and UK could to it in reverse...
When taking a driving test with an electric car are you then allowed to also drive cars with manual transmission? Here in Austria the license would be limited to Automatic cars.
Since 2021 it is possible. It is called B197. You have to take 10 hours driving manual with the instructor. But the rest and the test is done with the automatic.
Same here in the UK if you learn on an automatic / EV then your licence will only permit you to only drive an automatic. The opportunity to buy a new car with a manual shift though is getting less and less as manufacturers claim that automatics can meet emissions regulations better and these days there isn’t the fuel consumption penalty older automatics had. I took my UK driving test back in 1981 in manual cars but today both the cars in the house are 2023/2024 models with no option to buy a manual gearbox version - one of them has in effect 2 gearboxes though, high and low range with 8 forward gears in each box! It’s a Land Rover Defender and I use the low range box most 3-4 times a month. In the UK we have a group called the Institute of Advanced Motorists who will take you out in your own car with an instructor and correct any bad habits you have developed but this is not compulsory .
Ironically, the Tesla buttons on the left side of the steering wheel are better for right hand drive cars as you can use this technique at roundabouts without the sexy buttons.
Next improvement to the automotive industry that tesla will invent is the square wheels and tires And the fans will say why haven’t anyone thought of this before and they will say it’s genius
Ergonomics is where Tesla is lacking. Would be a simple fix for Tesla to offer the option of stalks or to relocate the buttons. The current thing is just not safe - and I am from the urban Netherlands where the roundabouts are circumvented by bike paths (!). Think December morning: a million school kids biking to school (the way to go), it is dark, misty, and everybody is in a hurry. Correct displaying the intention of movement is absolutely mandatory for those bikers - the bikes go all over the place, the automobile driver is always responsible. The heck with this 'solution' not fast, not ergonomic. Bummer!
This is Tesla's version of Apple's USB-C-problem. They come up with something proprietary and will stick to it as long as they are allowed to. That being said, they did get rid of a lot of mechanics and electronics by removing them. But they should not have been implemented before steer-by-wire.
Im so surprised that standard safety functions in cars is not regulated when so much else is. And I think this solution is even dumber then Tesla removal of the stalks that the pupil get teached a third way even less standard... I wonder how they will react when dont drive a tesla with extra button, probably be like old school BMW and not use the indicator. Regarding hands on the wheel in our country you are supposed to hold the hands on 4 and 8 (mostly regarding to airbag) not 3 and 9 as in this film.
“Instructor” is so dangerous. You are meant to feed the wheel around while keeping the hands in same place. Never cover the airbag with your hand or arm, death wish for watch flying into your face, or very least broken arm instantly if airbag deploys. Automatic fail on driver test.
That's not universally considered correct. Feeding the wheel, aka Granny steering, can be considered too slow and complicated in an emergency situation. That's why your taught to stick your hands on the wheel here in Germany and grip over in tight maneuvering. Thumbs stay out of the wheel.
I dont get this chill mode. In kia EV6, in all 3 modes, eco, normal, sport, the full power is available, but its like putting expo on throttle pedal. Tesla should do this to, chill pedal reaction, but still full power available. I hate the jerkyness of normal mode on tesla.
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"expo", do you fly RC by any chance? Or are you a mouse+KB gamer? hehe.
I have a S Plaid. I drive in Oslo daily - to and from work (city center). Yoke / buttons are second nature (yes, this includes SEVERAL roundabouts, including the one north of the Royal palace (the really tight one)). I have S3XY buttons, and have a 3D printed mount for the cup holder for 3 S3XY buttons - turn signals and high beam lights. I only use this when others are driving my car (I can help them with signaling). Stalks are "easy" as its muscle memory (because 99% of cars have the same system). Its not a better system once you get used to the buttons. I hate using stalks when I use other cars.
Those long movement completely crossed up one hand driving looks very ungainly, I'll just buy a different car next purchase. Elon has convinced me of that anyway.
So stupid, these will follow the steering wheel on the back😂 How difficult is it to learn that the right blinker is at the top of the left side when driving straight forward, if you turn the steering wheel 180 dg it will be on the bottom right side.
I drive a BMW... what is this talk about blinkers?
🤣🤣😎👍🤣🤣
BMW and Audi and Mercedes drivers don't care about blinkers
It's just a way to sell more blinker fluid
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣👍
You wouldn't understand... 😅
According to the video, I still find this solution clumsy compared to the classic levers.
In the video the touch this subject. That people that are used to stalks prefer those to the buttons. But the younger kids that goes to drivingschool rather use buttons that stalks.
@@tobiasforsberg2497 How would you prefer to "not know at any time where the button/switch/lever for blinking is"? Instead of knowing that it is on a stalk left to the wheel, where you know the position.
@@colla555 While your point is largely valid, you nearly always know where your steering wheel position is. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to focus on road or steer. It may be clumsier to move hands to different positions every time you want to blinker but you do know where the buttons are every time - clearly, if there is feedback that it's easy for new learners then it shows it doesn't really matter.
@@MartinzW OK, but then the same would apply for the oem blinker buttons, doesn't it?
I totally don’t get the purpose of placing the SEXY buttons on the back side of the steering wheel? They still rotate with the wheel, making them hard to find when wheel is turned.
A couple of years ago, no one would have thought that there would be videos on the lack of stalks and ways to solve it...
Hi Bjorn, in the UK we drive on the left side which is the right side 😀
I put a small, 1-2 mm thick sticker on the button for the right indicator, which is the one you always use when exiting a roundabout (Norway).
Really don’t have any issues with the missing stalks now, it’s dirt cheap (actually came with a roof lamp I installed in the bedroom, so it was actually kind of free) and I don’t risky any issues with Tesla regarding the warranty as I keep well away from the OBD-port 😊
Super easy to spot just by glaring slightly downwards in case I don’t feel it with my hand.
That's exactly what Tesla is lacking: Haptic feedback!!! Impossible to be looking at the steering wheel. it has to be INTUITIVE
But having the buttons on the wheel still doesnt help with f.i. roundabouts..
I guess it's slightly more intuitive, but not really "nice"
If you notice how the instructor holds his hands, the right hand is on the correct button for exiting the roundabout. I guess that’s the trick.
Just stick the buttons on the actually dashboard. Like a quiz show button. Or Alternatively on the fixed part of the steering column
I find it better than normal stalks for roundabouts but it's probably just me that's able to accomodate to something new... Right...
For left turns the button on the steering wheel works fine, for right turns I have a sexy button in the 'V' at the bottom of the steering wheel. This works perfectly on roundabouts. And I should know, I live in the Netherlands with a lot of roundabouts 😀
Not only are removal of the indicator stalk annoying, but the usage of the new buttons are also annoying. When pressing, if I miss slightly, nothing happens. Arrgghhh
Same here. Wish they'd put on litle bumps for tactile feedback so i press in the wanted spot.
Was already thinking of getting a transparent, very thin, sticker made with little bumps in the center of the indicator/highbeam and wiper/camera/voice buttons. Maybe some Chinese already makes these. If anyone knows any, let me know.
edit: and a double bump on the right indicator to easier find it in a roundabout situation.
These are rotating with the steering wheel too. I need Sexy Stalks! Ideally customizable, so I can bind TACC speed resume and other useful controls 😢🙏
Coming soon :)
Hmm strange.... I think the buttons should no move. Then issue is gone.
Like shift paddles which stay in position. But why there no complaints about shift paddles, which are fixed to the steering wheel in other cars. 🤔 It should also be irritating... I'm coming from ordinary shifters to a 2021 tesla. And I love my M3P! I will try the s3xy buttons with my M3P. Maybe there is a benefit. 😅
it should be mandatory to get 1-2 hours of driving from the school every few years... just so someone remembers us how bad of a drivers we are.
every "few years" as in 10 sure
anything lower is unreasonable tbh
No. We should not.
I’m a baby boomer- but have had absolutely no problem adapting to driving without stalks.
I dont have a highland but that wheel movement together with the sexy buttons seems smooth. I would get used to that in 5-10 minutes
Ide happily swap the new rear screen for stalks. I'm not upgrading my 2022 until factory stalks are available.
That's the bottom line: no stalks, no buy.!
I agree...my good friend is a mechanic for Tesla and he tells me the feedback on stalkless highlands is a common complaint....Elon listen please
I have ZERO problem with no stalks. Took me maybe ten minutes to get used to.
I actually prefer it now.
So you‘ll never will!
I‘m close to absolutly sure stalks will never come back in Teslas, the „new“ MY Juniper sure will miss it too.
The best solution so far, this would really work for me.. good job 🎉🎉
I don't understand how this non standard and custom solution helps students to learn habits transerable to other cars
it won't xD
It doesn't have to. A stalk is not that complicated.
I've had the Model S for over 7 years with stalks, in addition a Model 3 2021 with stalks and the model 3 highland without stalks. The first two hours I needed a little bit of more focus in turnabouts but afterwards no problem at all. Having a blinker on every side isn't replacing the stalks, especially if you have always remember which side you need to use. So they change the position as well. Same problem with ferrari back in the day. Of course not that relevant if you are on a track day and using the 9-15 position.
In my case no reason for ugly, expensive buttons. Heating batt. isn't helping either and now that the high beam auto function is better there isn't a single reason to buy the sexy buttons in my case.
Wonder if Ferrari stopped again? You see Ferrari cars as every day driven cars? How can you say heating battery doesn't help if your using non-Tesla chargers? Auto beam still sucks big time as its so far from perfect as anything can be. S3XY will let you use hi/dim 100% manual, kill the flawed wipers and let you control the speed. Then you get ban-prevention so if your doing 140,001 Km/h it will disable autopilot instead of the kindergarten of Tesla where you have to stop to be able to use more than TACC. Seems like you doesn't know a lot about how fantastic a saviour the buttons/knob/commander actually works by such statement.
My reasons for s3xy buttons are: Long hold door handle for charge port release and frunk open. Drift mode. And Auto-wipers Off, due to RainX treatment.
You can always buy aftermarket stalks as Bjorn presented 2-3 weeks ago.
I just got the model 3 highland and after 2 days I’m used to the stalkless design and tbh no big deal , it works fine ! Even so I can tell it’s even better !
Fascinating that student drivers prefer buttons. It makes sense given how fast they can type with they’re thumbs 👍 👍
Their attitude is quite comprehensible. They grew up with game controllers that are packed with buttons all over.
Wouldn’t you have the same issue of a deploying steering wheel airbag if you’re caught in an accident within the roundabout with his driving style? (arm stretched across the steering wheel). Like others that commented, the buttons just continue the same ‘mindset inconvenience’, the ideal solution is steer by wire … come on Tesla, make it happen.
Exactly what I was thinking 🤔 😊
Cybertruck is the first with SBW. I wouldn't be surprised if next generations all will use SBW.
You could place the buttons on the steering wheel and then they will always be on the same position and your hands won't cross over the steering wheel for any reason. When going left I was thought that my left hand should stay in place and by moving the wheel with my right hand every 5-10 cm to grab it with the left then move my right back to 15 o'clock, mostly like how Bjorn does it.
The only solution I find helpful is to glue some small object on the "turn right" button on the steering wheel, like them transparent little thingies they use in the furniture as bumpers for cabinet doors. One may then intuitively press it while leaving the roundabout.
Entertaining video. I’m not going to change how I steer through roundabouts, I don’t like arms crossing the steering wheel. Also, I like traditional stalks, and I’m going to continue purchase cars that provide stalks. Younger generations can do what they want. 😊
For left turns the button on the steering wheel works fine, for right turns I have a sexy button in the 'V' at the bottom of the steering wheel. This works perfectly on roundabouts. And I should know, I live in the Netherlands with a lot of roundabouts 😀
And now, every time we see you drive "incorrectly" on the livestream, we'll call you out for it! 😂
Great idea Bjorn. So many of us had their licence years ago and so many things have changed in those decades. Thank you. Do you have a link for your discount on sexy buttons
The blinker buttons always work in any orientation if you consider them as clockwise / counterclockwise. If you are signaling right you press button in the clockwise position no matter where the wheel is.
in the near future we do not need buttons and stalks at all
that is the idea behind it, on Autopilot the car will indikate by itself
Elon has said FSD is coming next year, every year since 2017. All teslas made before 2022-2023 ish, will never be able to use FSD (if tesla ever delivers it) because the cars are limited by the hardware. There are hundreds of thousands people who paid $10k for FSD, but will never have it because of hardware limitions and tesla don't do refunds, and they can't transfer the FSD purchase if they buy a new car. Elon is a grifter, and this is a lawsuit in the making.
There is a reason why stalks were invented. Typical Musk engineers trying to reinvent the wheel (quite literally) when there was no need to. Always been taught never cross your hands on a steering wheel as you have less control. Slide the wheel between your hands on sharp turns.
Im not one of those 'i need buttons' types. Ive had several Teslas now so i feel i can comment. But this was a completely daft aesthetic choice for european roads where roundabouts are everywhere. European driving can be quite intense due to small complex roads and heavy traffic. Im sure id get used to it, but i know my wife (who is already totally not a fan of my pre highland Tesla) would just refuse to drive it. Which predetermines my next choice of car - who will drive me home from the pub if the car has no indicator stalks?! 😂 Also, given the lamentable performance of the wipers, a button is essential, and having it moving around with the steering is just an awful decision for this specific car. Same for 3 point turns without a straightforward gear selector - just fiddly when turning in a narrow european street (allied to the massive turning circle and soft fragile kerb seeking alloys common to most teslas). Finally, seeing Elon do his cringe thing at a Trump rally, in front of a bunch of coal rollers (who says they don't get irony?!) is slowly pushing me into the arms of the Chinese EV market. Teslas PR department (if it hasn't been sacked to save money) must be livid - way to go alienating a sizeable export market when the uptake of EV is at a crossroads of doubt and misinformation. Im surprised this design achieved homologation in our market, to be honest.
AFAIK, Tesla's PR department was sacked years ago, and never replaced.
@@georgepelton5645 it would have been a thankless job, i imagine
I love buttons 🥰
Yes but no, you don't need a free hand to operate a stalk. Just stick out a finger at the right time on the roundabout, and it will operate the stalk by the wheel movement.
Ofcorse stundent drivers prefer buttons, because they are yoused to them, from they gaming controlers. ;)
Great idea!
My god, finally... left blinker is fine on roundabout. There are many unclear situations if you don't use it.
When will they remove the pedals? 😅
Hi Bjorn, is tesla referral still active and is it available for European market or only US?
I've always thought the blinker button on the steering wheel should blink when in operation. Still not as good as stalks, but at least a quick glance at the steering wheel would show you which direction you are indicating.
Uhm, there's a green blinking arrow on the screen. Easier to spot than to look at the steering wheel arrow blinking. They could probably do this with software though. I wouldn't be opposed to it.
@@mousetreat Umm yeah there is. But how does that help when the buttons on the steering wheel are upside down??
The moment he goes over the speed limit and turns off the ISA by looking at the teacher is priceless 😂
That way of holding the wheel does not work well with stalks if you are turning left on roundabout (here in UK and leaving exit), as your left hand would be on wheel on the left with “free” right hand but your stalk is on the left, so you have to move hands from that position.
This only works if you hold wheel like that, so many people will have to retrain to do it as I’ve tried on commute after watching video and not that easy but I guess doable (but not sure that much more doable than learning to hit right buttons on front of wheel after a while… 🤷♂️.
Interesting that young learners/kids prefer buttons… 😊
right hand drive cars are incredibly wrong... the accelerator should be on the left... thats the natural position
I would put a yoke steering wheel also 😂😂😂
I like keeping the right hand on the wheel through the whole roundabout tip 🤓
Problem is students wouldn't be able to transfer this training to other vehicles. Regions should remove a 5 star saftey rating if no indicator stalks, would put the issue to bed.
It's good idea, indeed
If only they'd make 'little bumps' on the buttons so you'd actually feel where to press exactly. I pretty often miss the button eventhough i pressed it. Indicators are doable as the have the little speedbump between them. But a little dot on the highbeams/camera would be nice for tactile feedback.
I agree with instructor about speed being displayed on screen is better than on a dashboard - closer and higher and quicker to read
Definitely!
My other car has the speedo down through the steering wheel. It’s much harder to read that than the speedo on my Model 3.
Good solution for model 3 maybe, but why use a car without stalks in a driving school?
Price
Future, why use a computer in school when you still can use a typewriter? :D
Did you listen? The driving instructor said, right in this video, that young drivers actually prefer the touch buttons on the steering wheel to stalks on cars that have both.
@@celeron55 The same instructor also installed S3XY Buttons to improve non stalk solution that Tesla came up with. Driving schools should use cars with stalks and if the driver later choose to drive car without, that is his own preferance.
@@yaCiyaCi Does the same apply to one-pedal driving? (or the lack of shifting).
I totally forgot that you blink inside the roundabout in Norway.
I messed that up the whole first week i was there🙈
FSD Supervised can do the correct signals in roundabouts. I think 12.4.1 did. But, the newer 12.5.4 version did not. I gotta try it again though.
You can already get add-on indicator stalks for the model 3. I don’t think this is the biggest detractor for the new model 3 though - it’s the high leasing costs. At least here in the UK you can lease considerably more expensive EVs for much lower monthly payments than a model 3 due to poor residual value forecasts.
Really? I’ve just leased a Model 3 for £299 a month, which much more expensive EVs could I have got for less than that?
correct me my Canadian/American friends, we don't indicate entering a roundabout, we only indicate our exit right?
At least for europe, yes, only on exit.
@@zilla85 I think in france and netherlands they also indicate on entering. For example they want to leave on the third exit (left side when entering) they set the indicator to left so others see where they want to exit. Sorry for bad english, don't know how to explain it better.
@@Mues_Lee that's interesting! I'm from germany and we only indicate exiting.
@@zilla85 Ich hab mir das auch angewöhnt aber kann mich nicht erinnern wie das in der Fahrschule gelehrt wurde. Meinen Führerschein habe ich 1994 gemacht, da gab es in meiner Gegend noch keine Kreisverkehre :D
Da ich grenznah zum Elsass wohne ist mir das aufgefallen bei den Franzosen. So dumm ist das auch gar nicht, dann sehen die wartenden das du weiter fährst und reduziert die Unfallgefahr. Weiter unten gib es noch einen Kommentar dazu.
Tesla need to stop trying to invent the wheel. These button/ switch things are just rubbish idea. Next they will scrap buttons and put indications on the voice control system. It’s all to save production costs.
I was taught to drive in the UK and to keep my hands on the steering wheel at all times, and slide the steering wheel through my hands when turning, so my hand is always in the correct position to cancel or change the indicator. I also thought you should keep your thumbs out of the steering wheel just in case you have an accident and the wheel turns quickly. The buttons on the steering wheel and also the 3exy buttons look awkward to use.
In Germany, I was taught to grip over in tight manoeuvering. Thumbs stay out of the wheel. “Feeding the wheel“ aka “Granny Steering” is considered wrong here.
I can't see the advantage? The buttons are on the wrong position anyway?
I had the same idea that the indicator buttons should be placed where they put the sexy buttons. Dont understand why T did what they did, may be because EM has gone to the "Dark Side" ? Maybe we should call him Darth Musk
I thought it would be a problem, but after a week of having a highland, for me ‘stalkgate’ is not an issue anymore, I’m used to it (yes, also roundabouts / EU). That being said stalks is just more simple and makes more sense. But I don’t see the need for aftermarket stalks.
I'm yet to be convinced. In fact I'm absolutely not going to be convinced. I have 45 years experience with stalks. If Tesla want to sell me a car they have to stop being so arrogant and bring back the indicator stalk. My 1967 Beetle had an indicator stalk and EVERY SINGLE CAR I've driven since. (Perhaps that's 70 different models.)
No stalk.. No buy.!
(I've also sold my Tesla shares.)
I think that a sort of dress for the column, that has a stalk is feasible, and using the s3xy button behind it. Sort of a 3D printed thing one can attach, and a few soldered wires to the s3xy buttons.
I wonder why no accessory manufacturer has yet brought retrofittable indicator levers onto the market. That shouldn't really be such a big problem.
They have
are you allowed to drive manual cars after getting the license with a tesla?
No
No
I like ev that coast. Hate the harsh lift off regen
I drive much smoother with regen (B mode in my VW) since the smooth transition between acceleration and deceleration.
And Teslas can't do brake blending, meaning coasting=no regen. The brake pedal activates the brakes only while every other branded EV can transition smoothly between regen and actual braking with the good old brake pedal.
Are you really blinking left on the runabouts in Norway? WOW!
Here in Sweden the left blink is only considered "nice" and not a rule. Blinking out of the round-about though is the law. (For some reason I was tought in my driving school that I do NOT need to blink if my lane is splitting into two... which you can sort of think of the exit from a round-about as. But whatever)
Right blinking is a rule, no doubt, but the left blinking is reserved here only for changing the lanes on multilane roundabout
In Switzerland we're taught that you are not supposed to indicate left in a roundabout at all. You only start indicating right after you pass the median of the exit before the one you want to take. (Also multi-lane roundabouts are an abomination and should not be built, but that's my personal opinion)
I actually kinda like the buttons on the wheel, without the stalk, just because it means driving one handed is easier xD But the shift leaver being removed fucking sucks ass, I love my 2021 model 3 just because of how it easy it is to drive and maneuver. Also I always drive in chill mode now if doing regular driving, only switch out for merging onto highways and overtaking, easy to switch with multi function menu with left scroll wheel
Ever seen a car where so many gadgets have been made to make it user friendly?
Clearly Tesla has a HMI department, but they should all be sacked.
They design the car to satisfy Mr Musk, not the real users
Tesla doesn't do any of this to make it user-friendly, but only to make it cheaper to manufacture. They have a big screen anyway, so the more buttons they can integrate into the screen the less money and installation time they need on extra buttons and wiring.
The blinker could not safely be integrated into the screen, but by putting two small buttons next to each other they made it much cheaper than a stalk.
@@ITubeTooInc Must have saved a couple of Euros on that....
Seems like Elon did just that long time ago... 🤷♂️
It is a temporary problem, in future models with steer by wire, the buttons on the steering wheel are just fine. See Cybertruck
Still think that whole discussion is well overcooked. The only thing i complain about is the bad feedback from the steering wheel buttons in the 3. Why didn't they just put in regular clicky buttons...
Configure both buttons to "1 click" = blink right... 2 clicks = blink left.... then you just need to hit one of the buttons to get out of round abouts.... and UK could to it in reverse...
If you do that you introduce another 300 ms of delay. Bad idea.
And Bjørn Consults Driving school 😃
these buttons dont solve ANYTHING - the problem is the same....maybe if you put the buttons either side of the cowl behind the wheel -but still clunky
When taking a driving test with an electric car are you then allowed to also drive cars with manual transmission? Here in Austria the license would be limited to Automatic cars.
would limited to automatic, beacuse you get the B78 license and not the B, for now only the hyunday ioniq 5 N have a simulated manual gear
Since 2021 it is possible. It is called B197. You have to take 10 hours driving manual with the instructor. But the rest and the test is done with the automatic.
Same here in the UK if you learn on an automatic / EV then your licence will only permit you to only drive an automatic. The opportunity to buy a new car with a manual shift though is getting less and less as manufacturers claim that automatics can meet emissions regulations better and these days there isn’t the fuel consumption penalty older automatics had.
I took my UK driving test back in 1981 in manual cars but today both the cars in the house are 2023/2024 models with no option to buy a manual gearbox version - one of them has in effect 2 gearboxes though, high and low range with 8 forward gears in each box! It’s a Land Rover Defender and I use the low range box most 3-4 times a month.
In the UK we have a group called the Institute of Advanced Motorists who will take you out in your own car with an instructor and correct any bad habits you have developed but this is not compulsory .
Ironically, the Tesla buttons on the left side of the steering wheel are better for right hand drive cars as you can use this technique at roundabouts without the sexy buttons.
Next improvement to the automotive industry that tesla will invent is the square wheels and tires And the fans will say why haven’t anyone thought of this before and they will say it’s genius
Ergonomics is where Tesla is lacking. Would be a simple fix for Tesla to offer the option of stalks or to relocate the buttons. The current thing is just not safe - and I am from the urban Netherlands where the roundabouts are circumvented by bike paths (!). Think December morning: a million school kids biking to school (the way to go), it is dark, misty, and everybody is in a hurry. Correct displaying the intention of movement is absolutely mandatory for those bikers - the bikes go all over the place, the automobile driver is always responsible. The heck with this 'solution' not fast, not ergonomic. Bummer!
This is Tesla's version of Apple's USB-C-problem.
They come up with something proprietary and will stick to it as long as they are allowed to.
That being said, they did get rid of a lot of mechanics and electronics by removing them.
But they should not have been implemented before steer-by-wire.
Hey give a shout out to Marcusbil....bring back the stalks...I have a '23 Model Y will be getting a '25 Juniper but only with stalks
The question is if SEXY buttons could do their wireless stalks?
Im so surprised that standard safety functions in cars is not regulated when so much else is. And I think this solution is even dumber then Tesla removal of the stalks that the pupil get teached a third way even less standard... I wonder how they will react when dont drive a tesla with extra button, probably be like old school BMW and not use the indicator. Regarding hands on the wheel in our country you are supposed to hold the hands on 4 and 8 (mostly regarding to airbag) not 3 and 9 as in this film.
“Instructor” is so dangerous. You are meant to feed the wheel around while keeping the hands in same place. Never cover the airbag with your hand or arm, death wish for watch flying into your face, or very least broken arm instantly if airbag deploys. Automatic fail on driver test.
That's not universally considered correct. Feeding the wheel, aka Granny steering, can be considered too slow and complicated in an emergency situation. That's why your taught to stick your hands on the wheel here in Germany and grip over in tight maneuvering. Thumbs stay out of the wheel.
In Finland the driving schools also teach this way. As it was teached for me. I still do the "granny street" though because im lazy
@@gisobo Same in Switzerland. Feeding the wheel is probably something that has been taught decades ago, but is not considered safe anymore.
I would have totally put it in drift mode🤪
Sxybutten is working on some org tesla stalk comback...
One sexy button will be enough for the right turn signal. The left one is not a real problem
I have the exact setup in my model 3, but it is not helpful in roundabouts. Now I got used to the buttons on the steering wheel.
S3xy buttons might develop stalks, but perhaps they don't think they would profit from it.
Hi..You can buy aftermarket stalk sets that are easy to install.Bob's your uncle
Bjørn already tested those, there's a video on the channel about them.
buy a car to buy some buttons afterwards😆
i rather have a stalk in the same spot to control the turn signals... this is tesla trying to reinvent the wheel again
I have three buttons under the armrest. Left and right blinks, the middle changes gear between D and R. Perfect location; even better than stalks.
Now that's some ergonomics!
Nope, won’t work for me.I prefer stalks!
But the Model 3 Doesn’t have a Problem for majority of people,if it did it wouldn’t be selling,muscle memory is key.
Muscle memory isn't the answer when the button moves all over the place while turning
I dont get this chill mode. In kia EV6, in all 3 modes, eco, normal, sport, the full power is available, but its like putting expo on throttle pedal.
Tesla should do this to, chill pedal reaction, but still full power available. I hate the jerkyness of normal mode on tesla.
"expo", do you fly RC by any chance? Or are you a mouse+KB gamer? hehe.
Both :D have a raw 700 heli, and purely gaming on pc.
I have a S Plaid. I drive in Oslo daily - to and from work (city center). Yoke / buttons are second nature (yes, this includes SEVERAL roundabouts, including the one north of the Royal palace (the really tight one)). I have S3XY buttons, and have a 3D printed mount for the cup holder for 3 S3XY buttons - turn signals and high beam lights. I only use this when others are driving my car (I can help them with signaling). Stalks are "easy" as its muscle memory (because 99% of cars have the same system). Its not a better system once you get used to the buttons. I hate using stalks when I use other cars.
The left side is the right side……of the road.✊
Definitely hasn’t solved the problem, quite painful to watch.
yes 🙂
Blink right, only right. Left blinkers do not turn it of before they leave the roundaboute.
Incorrect
@@bjornnyland No, its correct. Ask the Germans.
Those long movement completely crossed up one hand driving looks very ungainly, I'll just buy a different car next purchase. Elon has convinced me of that anyway.
Stalks are the best, Elon is stupid. Anyway I will not give money to Trump. VW or Kia are good EVs!
I will NOT buy a new Tesla without stalks! End of discussion Musk!
So stupid, these will follow the steering wheel on the back😂 How difficult is it to learn that the right blinker is at the top of the left side when driving straight forward, if you turn the steering wheel 180 dg it will be on the bottom right side.
Nos precisamos de carros simples de usar....mas a cada vez maior quantidade de gadgets sem interesse torna a conducao uma dor de cabeça
Lol
❤❤❤