Are the 6.0 and 6.7 nose cones directly interchangeable? Just bought a 6.7 starter and do not want mess with the bushing/smaller bolt issue. I just want to swap nose cones, if possible. But the larger bearing on the 6.7 has me thinking it won't work. Thanks.
Can u please tell me if I could put a 6.7l starter on a 2002 f550 ...And is it easy install and what do I need to do just swap the nose & how difficult it is to swap it & where can I get it from in a reasonable price thanks alot
Thanks for the deep dive! My 7.3l starter is an autozone reman I'm pretty sure and it's giving up on life quickly. Glad to know tossing in a 6.7l oem is so easy!
"I'm real particular about the way it cranks up." Same bud, thanks for the video. I own a new 6.7 and an 03 7.3 and I love the way my 6.7 cranks up. 7.3 sounds ok but tired, time to change that.
Come to find out this video is only good for 2001 and newer 7.3 owners as they will have the starter needed for a nose cone swap to a 6.4 or 6.7 starter. Pre 2001 7.3 starters were a completely different design and will not work for this swap. Essentially what I'm saying is if you own a pre 2001 7.3, you have to buy two starters to do this conversion, at least initially. Not economical at all. A USA reman'd Powermaster 9051 is a great option in that case. FYI, a Powermaster 9051 is simply a worked over DENSO reman. That's literally all it is. Nothing too fancy, but the reman happens in the good ol' USA, so that's worth something. Got one on my late 99" and it works very well. DENSO units used to be all the rage and still are great units.
Just finished up getting through this...definitely worth the money and effort. However, I ran into something I didn't see documented here or anywhere else. The 2 hole oem Visteon starter nose for the 7.3L that has to be switched over to the new 6.7L unit has smaller diamter long bolts...the exterior bolts that hold the midsection together which go the length of the unit. I went ahead and bought a brand new, but damaged...one of the solenoid lugs is broken off...DB Electric oem style offset gear reduction starter for a good deal off Ebay. I plan to switch the solenoid from the Visteon I pulled from my F350 and then install on the wife's Excursion. So I will check and see what size those two bolts are when it arrives.
So those bolts on the DB unit were actually larger like the oem 6.7 unit. I switched out the solenoid, disconnected then checked the batteries...they were at 12.87v and 13.14v...and installed the DB starter. It does roll over good, but I can tell the 6.7 starter sounds different and also appears to roll over a bid faster.
@@bwguardian Interesting and thanks for the update! I didn't have any issues with the bolts that you mentioned. Makes me wonder if there has been a design change at some point...
This video got my sub, and as a Ford technician, I'm super impressed at your aptitude in electrical and motors. I will be doing this to my 03 7.3, I'll make a video of the mentioned items on your other video, plus a shit ton more that I didn't list. Thanks for talking the time for the very detailed analysis and education on the difference in the starters. The windings in the newer case being lower in winding count, makes more power at the cost of current and heat. Also the brushes get hammered with current and will wear faster. It's the price you pay for getting that oil pressure up to crack er over, especially on the cold. I'd imagine and would bet a genuine article would last well over 100k mile's of use you could count on. I'll be ordering OEM online, $250 for factory on new, not refurb.
Thanks! I'm a "why" guy so getting to the bottom of things is my M.O. I'm just glad that there are others, such as yourself, that can appreciate it. Good call on factory new.
So would there not be a significant difference between me changing my 6.0’s starter with either the 6.4/6.7? Besides the 6.4 bolting up directly, they will pretty much perform the exact same?
maybe I need to watch this again... but I'm thinking someone should parallel wire the field winding's that are in series to see what kinda change that makes for the 7.3 6.0 6.4 denso's.... maybe they too can sound almost as good as the 6.7... I'm stuck with the mitsu on my 7.3 right now... pulling my spare apart to try and make it better... since my van won't even start :(
Quick question, I might of missed the explanation if this was mentioned, a 6.7 starter to a 6.0 do i have to change nose cones at all? Would i have to take off the 6.0 nose cone and put it on the 6.7 before install? Thank in advance for any replies. Awesome informative video.
@@seekrepair5887 Thanks for your reply, appreciate the response. I'm ready lol and geared up with m8x1. 25-45mm flanged bolt and 15mm spacer. Knowing I won't have to swap cones makes the install a lot quicker, appreciate what you do on the channel.
I honestly don't know. I'd have to google it. I'd say as tight as you can get them using a wrench or standard length 3/8" ratchet, with no additional leverage apparatus (like a cheater pipe), and you'll be fine.
I have the 4.5 Powerstroke V-6 engine. The starter is supposed to be the same as the 6.0. My starter just went out on me would you recommend using the 6.4 or the 6.7? Thanks for your input..
Assuming that the 4.5 starter is the same as the 6.0...then either one would work as they are the same internally. The 6.4 would be a direct bolt in upgrade. The 6.7 would require a bushing and a smaller bolt to mount it up. See 1:00 - 1:30 ish for details.
Thanks for the info, The 4.5 starter and the 6.0 are the same so I went with the 6.7 starter and instead of using a bushing and smaller bolt I drilled and tapped the lower bolt hole on my starter. Will let you know how it all works out. Thanks again..
Hey do you happen to know the part number for the 7.3 Powerstroke starter? I think the manufacturers are catching on this can be done and rebuilding the large OEM starters. Thats all I can get pretty much from part stores around my area. Haha
I suppose you would call them the 3 bolt versions. They are huge compared to those that you have. (At least in length) Thanks for the reply though, and your extremely helpful video!
No problem, man. From the sound of it, you are describing the older planetary gear reduction starters that came on the older 7.3s. They had 3 mounting bolts that held them onto the flywheel housing. As you're aware, you'd need the newer offset gear reduction (OSGR) style that uses only 2 bolts to mount to the flywheel housing. I'm not sure where you're shopping or what year model you're searching for...maybe ask for a starter for a 2003 7.3 and see what they have to offer? Good luck in your search!
Absolutely. 6.4 and 6.7 starters are identical except for the size of one of the bolt holes on the mounting flange (but you won't be using the mounting flange from the 6.4 or 6.7 so it doesn't matter). I touch on this at the 1:00 minute mark.
Great video. I'm a 7.3 lover myself. I generally buy the ND gear reduction starter which has over 5hp. It spins pretty fast. Maybe one day you can compare your 6.7 hybrid 7.3 starter to the ND DENSO GEAR REDUCTION STARTER 7.3L - TG228000-8420. I'd really be interested in what you think.
Thanks! I actually tried one of those about 12 years ago. It did spin the engine over pretty fast but, as weird as it may sound, I didn't like the sound of the starter...it was almost too quiet. All I could really hear was a fluttering sound as the engine spun over rapidly. That starter only lasted 3 - 6 months though so I think I may have received a Chinese version and not a genuine Nippondenso starter. That also may explain the sound that it made...
Thanks! The "booster cable" was just an auxiliary 0 gauge (ish) battery cable running in parallel with the existing cable connecting the passenger side battery to the starter. I tried it just for funzies to see if I could notice a difference....I could not.
The larger bearing does not interface with the nose cone...it is on the motor side of the starter drive and interfaces only with the 6.7 portion of the starter. The ONLY part that you will use from the 7.3 is the nose cone. See 25:38 for clarity. Thanks for watching!
That’s badass! I have a spare 6.7 starter from work and I can have it remanned in town and then turn it into a new starter for my 7.3. They want all kind of money for those monster starters online
I just wanted to say thank you for that awesome video. I was wondering what the difference was as well. I just had my 6.0 diesel fitted with the 6.4 starter and what a difference!!! I would recommend everyone with a 6.0 get the 6.4 starter put on.
Before I buy one. For clarity. The only thing I have to do is. Put my 7.3 nose cone on a 6.7 starter? The bendix gear and everything matches the flywheel? Thanks
Mine came off of one of my Autozone reman starters, which was a 2 bolt Visteon Style starter. There have been a few varieties of 7.3 starters over the years so you have to use the latest style available which is the 2 bolt visteon style...I believe they were first used around 2001.
Seek & Repair gotcha, thanks for the reply. I have a new 6.7 starter and nose cone from a 7.3, older style must be. I see that excursions use the 2 bolt system. Hard to find just a nose cone.
1999-2000 7.3’s uses the old heavy non-gear reduction starters (terrible AMP hungry machines)... a 2001-2003 7.3 starter is gear reduction - so you would want to use the nose cone off of a 2001-2003 7.3 starter (easily found at some junkyards) for the 6.7 starter.
Just to clarify, even the old 3 bolt starters were gear reduction starters...they just use a different style of reduction (planetary gear reduction - similar to what is found in an automatic transmission). The 2 bolt starters use what is called "offset gear reduction" or OSGR for short. This explains the difference in appearance.
In my days of racing RC cars motors with fewer field windings made more RPM and less torque. So the 6.4 and 6.7 have five windings vrs seven on the 6.0 tells me it would turn faster. The loss of torque on the 6.4 over the 6.0 is made up from the longer armature and fields giving it more torque and RPM.
It's not a difference in "time" because the electrons move in a column, like the water in your home's pipes moves in a column which is why you get water immediately when you open the faucet. What's going on is the 6.4/6.7 starters draw more amps due to the larger physical size of the field coils but primarily because the field coils aren't wired entirely in series. The field coils themselves are resistors; 2 parallel pairs in series with each other has the same resistance of 1 single field coil, the 4 in series has the resistance of all 4 added together, so 4x the resistance but also with more turns it will even be a little higher.
biggest issue is those 2 damn screws on the back cover. those are the ground for 2 brushes. They get loose and corroded and then the starter gets slow and quits. Mine it screwing up right now and sparks come off those screws. Shitty design
I want to use a 7.3 starter on my 6.7.
Are the 6.0 and 6.7 nose cones directly interchangeable? Just bought a 6.7 starter and do not want mess with the bushing/smaller bolt issue. I just want to swap nose cones, if possible. But the larger bearing on the 6.7 has me thinking it won't work.
Thanks.
I just built a 7.3 and am driving a 6.7 thanks for the info!
I got an 01 7.3 diesel just bought a 2013 6.7 starter will it work?
Can u please tell me if I could put a 6.7l starter on a 2002 f550 ...And is it easy install and what do I need to do just swap the nose & how difficult it is to swap it & where can I get it from in a reasonable price thanks alot
Thanks for the deep dive! My 7.3l starter is an autozone reman I'm pretty sure and it's giving up on life quickly. Glad to know tossing in a 6.7l oem is so easy!
You're welcome! Glad it helped.
Awesome vid 👌 you did what I've wanted to do for years
Thanks! Now you don't have to haha!
"I'm real particular about the way it cranks up."
Same bud, thanks for the video. I own a new 6.7 and an 03 7.3 and I love the way my 6.7 cranks up. 7.3 sounds ok but tired, time to change that.
ua-cam.com/video/OUJRJAXolk4/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LawrenceBader
The 2016 starters appear to be the same as the 2020 6.7 starters, so theatrically the 2020 6.7 starter should fit a 2000 7.3 powerstroke; correct?
If that is true then yes, a 2020 starter would work too...so long as you change the nose cone.
Greatly appreciated!
Come to find out this video is only good for 2001 and newer 7.3 owners as they will have the starter needed for a nose cone swap to a 6.4 or 6.7 starter. Pre 2001 7.3 starters were a completely different design and will not work for this swap. Essentially what I'm saying is if you own a pre 2001 7.3, you have to buy two starters to do this conversion, at least initially. Not economical at all. A USA reman'd Powermaster 9051 is a great option in that case. FYI, a Powermaster 9051 is simply a worked over DENSO reman. That's literally all it is. Nothing too fancy, but the reman happens in the good ol' USA, so that's worth something. Got one on my late 99" and it works very well. DENSO units used to be all the rage and still are great units.
Just finished up getting through this...definitely worth the money and effort. However, I ran into something I didn't see documented here or anywhere else. The 2 hole oem Visteon starter nose for the 7.3L that has to be switched over to the new 6.7L unit has smaller diamter long bolts...the exterior bolts that hold the midsection together which go the length of the unit. I went ahead and bought a brand new, but damaged...one of the solenoid lugs is broken off...DB Electric oem style offset gear reduction starter for a good deal off Ebay. I plan to switch the solenoid from the Visteon I pulled from my F350 and then install on the wife's Excursion. So I will check and see what size those two bolts are when it arrives.
So those bolts on the DB unit were actually larger like the oem 6.7 unit. I switched out the solenoid, disconnected then checked the batteries...they were at 12.87v and 13.14v...and installed the DB starter. It does roll over good, but I can tell the 6.7 starter sounds different and also appears to roll over a bid faster.
@@bwguardian Interesting and thanks for the update! I didn't have any issues with the bolts that you mentioned. Makes me wonder if there has been a design change at some point...
So could I use my 6.0 nose one on a 6.7 starter?
This video got my sub, and as a Ford technician, I'm super impressed at your aptitude in electrical and motors. I will be doing this to my 03 7.3, I'll make a video of the mentioned items on your other video, plus a shit ton more that I didn't list. Thanks for talking the time for the very detailed analysis and education on the difference in the starters. The windings in the newer case being lower in winding count, makes more power at the cost of current and heat. Also the brushes get hammered with current and will wear faster. It's the price you pay for getting that oil pressure up to crack er over, especially on the cold. I'd imagine and would bet a genuine article would last well over 100k mile's of use you could count on. I'll be ordering OEM online, $250 for factory on new, not refurb.
Thanks! I'm a "why" guy so getting to the bottom of things is my M.O. I'm just glad that there are others, such as yourself, that can appreciate it. Good call on factory new.
called a stator, not poles....
Can you swap the 3 bolt OBS 7.3 cone on the 6.7 starter ?
I doubt it. The 3 bolt starters are a differently designed starter from a different manufacturer.
will a 6.0 starter go into my 7.3 without mods
I have a new 6.0 starter and my 7.3 starter just quite.
Thanks
Nope...you would have to put the 7.3 nose cone on the 6.0 starter.
I own a 6.0, you do not want to use a 6.0l starter. The 6.7l starter is the best upgrade you can do.
So would there not be a significant difference between me changing my 6.0’s starter with either the 6.4/6.7? Besides the 6.4 bolting up directly, they will pretty much perform the exact same?
Correct. The only difference is that one mounting bolt.
maybe I need to watch this again... but I'm thinking someone should parallel wire the field winding's that are in series to see what kinda change that makes for the 7.3 6.0 6.4 denso's.... maybe they too can sound almost as good as the 6.7... I'm stuck with the mitsu on my 7.3 right now... pulling my spare apart to try and make it better... since my van won't even start :(
God Damnit Man you must be a goddamn genius how did you know exactly what we needed on UA-cam
Quick question, I might of missed the explanation if this was mentioned, a 6.7 starter to a 6.0 do i have to change nose cones at all? Would i have to take off the 6.0 nose cone and put it on the 6.7 before install? Thank in advance for any replies. Awesome informative video.
thanks! You can...or, you could just use a bushing and a smaller bolt for the threaded mounting hole on the 6.7 starter when mounting to a 6.4 or 6.0.
@@seekrepair5887 Thanks for your reply, appreciate the response. I'm ready lol and geared up with m8x1. 25-45mm flanged bolt and 15mm spacer. Knowing I won't have to swap cones makes the install a lot quicker, appreciate what you do on the channel.
I take it that this would work in a 7.3 IDI, right? I wonder if it would save the batteries and the solenoid.
what are the torque setting for the 3 bolts when fitting to the bell housing? I was told that these crack if tightened too much , thanks for any info
I honestly don't know. I'd have to google it. I'd say as tight as you can get them using a wrench or standard length 3/8" ratchet, with no additional leverage apparatus (like a cheater pipe), and you'll be fine.
Hey bro great job. Hey I have an 03 excursion with a 6.0 can I use the 6.7 starter with the nose cone of the 6.0 starter for a direct fit? Lmk thanks
Thanks, Jesus! I don't see why not.
Great bro thank you
Jesus you don't even need to swap nose cone. Just replace bottom bolt with 8x1.25x40mm bolt.
I have the 4.5 Powerstroke V-6 engine. The starter is supposed to be the same as the 6.0. My starter just went out on me would you recommend using the 6.4 or the 6.7? Thanks for your input..
Assuming that the 4.5 starter is the same as the 6.0...then either one would work as they are the same internally. The 6.4 would be a direct bolt in upgrade. The 6.7 would require a bushing and a smaller bolt to mount it up. See 1:00 - 1:30 ish for details.
Thanks for the info, The 4.5 starter and the 6.0 are the same so I went with the 6.7 starter and instead of using a bushing and smaller bolt I drilled and tapped the lower bolt hole on my starter. Will let you know how it all works out. Thanks again..
Aces...and good idea on the drill and tap.
So will the 3 bolt cone work on the 6.7 start
i doubt it. The 3 bolt starters are a differently designed starter from a different manufacturer.
Hey do you happen to know the part number for the 7.3 Powerstroke starter? I think the manufacturers are catching on this can be done and rebuilding the large OEM starters. Thats all I can get pretty much from part stores around my area. Haha
Large starters? Do you mean the 3 bolt versions? I don't know any starter part numbers numbers off the top of my head.
I suppose you would call them the 3 bolt versions. They are huge compared to those that you have. (At least in length) Thanks for the reply though, and your extremely helpful video!
No problem, man. From the sound of it, you are describing the older planetary gear reduction starters that came on the older 7.3s. They had 3 mounting bolts that held them onto the flywheel housing. As you're aware, you'd need the newer offset gear reduction (OSGR) style that uses only 2 bolts to mount to the flywheel housing. I'm not sure where you're shopping or what year model you're searching for...maybe ask for a starter for a 2003 7.3 and see what they have to offer? Good luck in your search!
So can a 6.4 starter work on a 7.3 like the 6.7 starter does?
Absolutely. 6.4 and 6.7 starters are identical except for the size of one of the bolt holes on the mounting flange (but you won't be using the mounting flange from the 6.4 or 6.7 so it doesn't matter). I touch on this at the 1:00 minute mark.
how there be thumbs down for this video.....
Haters gonna hate...
Great video. I'm a 7.3 lover myself. I generally buy the ND gear reduction starter which has over 5hp. It spins pretty fast. Maybe one day you can compare your 6.7 hybrid 7.3 starter to the ND DENSO GEAR REDUCTION STARTER 7.3L - TG228000-8420. I'd really be interested in what you think.
Thanks! I actually tried one of those about 12 years ago. It did spin the engine over pretty fast but, as weird as it may sound, I didn't like the sound of the starter...it was almost too quiet. All I could really hear was a fluttering sound as the engine spun over rapidly. That starter only lasted 3 - 6 months though so I think I may have received a Chinese version and not a genuine Nippondenso starter. That also may explain the sound that it made...
Will this work on my 96?
Yes!...so long as you use the 2 bolt starter.
Great video, I had no idea this would work. Any more info on your "Booster Cable" running from the PS battery?
Thanks! The "booster cable" was just an auxiliary 0 gauge (ish) battery cable running in parallel with the existing cable connecting the passenger side battery to the starter. I tried it just for funzies to see if I could notice a difference....I could not.
Seek & Repair oh ok, thanks
Genius idea, I’m gonna subscribe 👍🏻
With the larger bearing on the 6.7 starter how did you get it to fit on the 7.3 nose cone?
The larger bearing does not interface with the nose cone...it is on the motor side of the starter drive and interfaces only with the 6.7 portion of the starter. The ONLY part that you will use from the 7.3 is the nose cone. See 25:38 for clarity. Thanks for watching!
Will a 3 bolt nose cone work? I have a 95 I want to do this with
Blake Brinks You can use either a 2 or 3 bolt nose cone. Mine was a 2 bolt so I snugged the 3rd bolt just to keep dirt out.
That’s badass! I have a spare 6.7 starter from work and I can have it remanned in town and then turn it into a new starter for my 7.3. They want all kind of money for those monster starters online
I just wanted to say thank you for that awesome video. I was wondering what the difference was as well. I just had my 6.0 diesel fitted with the 6.4 starter and what a difference!!! I would recommend everyone with a 6.0 get the 6.4 starter put on.
You're welcome and thanks for watching!
Before I buy one. For clarity. The only thing I have to do is. Put my 7.3 nose cone on a 6.7 starter? The bendix gear and everything matches the flywheel? Thanks
Correct.
Where did you find the nose cone from a 7.3? I found one off a super duty but it’s different than the one you have in your video
Mine came off of one of my Autozone reman starters, which was a 2 bolt Visteon Style starter. There have been a few varieties of 7.3 starters over the years so you have to use the latest style available which is the 2 bolt visteon style...I believe they were first used around 2001.
Seek & Repair gotcha, thanks for the reply. I have a new 6.7 starter and nose cone from a 7.3, older style must be. I see that excursions use the 2 bolt system. Hard to find just a nose cone.
1999-2000 7.3’s uses the old heavy non-gear reduction starters (terrible AMP hungry machines)... a 2001-2003 7.3 starter is gear reduction - so you would want to use the nose cone off of a 2001-2003 7.3 starter (easily found at some junkyards) for the 6.7 starter.
Just to clarify, even the old 3 bolt starters were gear reduction starters...they just use a different style of reduction (planetary gear reduction - similar to what is found in an automatic transmission). The 2 bolt starters use what is called "offset gear reduction" or OSGR for short. This explains the difference in appearance.
In my days of racing RC cars motors with fewer field windings made more RPM and less torque. So the 6.4 and 6.7 have five windings vrs seven on the 6.0 tells me it would turn faster. The loss of torque on the 6.4 over the 6.0 is made up from the longer armature and fields giving it more torque and RPM.
Interesting...makes sense. Thank you for your comment!
It's not a difference in "time" because the electrons move in a column, like the water in your home's pipes moves in a column which is why you get water immediately when you open the faucet. What's going on is the 6.4/6.7 starters draw more amps due to the larger physical size of the field coils but primarily because the field coils aren't wired entirely in series. The field coils themselves are resistors; 2 parallel pairs in series with each other has the same resistance of 1 single field coil, the 4 in series has the resistance of all 4 added together, so 4x the resistance but also with more turns it will even be a little higher.
Thank you for the insight. I guess the "time" thing was a bad assumption.
biggest issue is those 2 damn screws on the back cover.
those are the ground for 2 brushes.
They get loose and corroded and then the starter gets slow and quits.
Mine it screwing up right now and sparks come off those screws.
Shitty design
I'm a female watching this video!
Thank You, I was wondering the differences
love you man !
10 thumbs up!
Thanks!