Redesigning the sim, part 1: Projectors vs TVs
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Part 1 of an occasional series on re-designing my sim for the new build. This time, the first major decision I need to make: stick with projectors or go for TVs?
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I make videos about building and operating a flight simulator out of my back bedroom. The videos here cover a wide range of topics within flight simulation but especially how to build and maintain a sim, including constructing your own equipment, screens and projectors, sim software setup and software development for simulators. I also film flights in the sim which I upload edited highlights of, and sometimes entire unedited flights.
I'm not a professional pilot and I make a lot of mistakes, but I have a lot of fun and if you're interested in aviation and in particular home cockpit building, you should subscribe!
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Temporary simulator specs are:
Main PC: Core i7 9700K 9th-gen CPU overclocked to 4.7 GHz / 32 GB RAM / 512 GB NVMe + 2TB HDD storage / GTX3080Ti / Win10 Pro / SPAD.Next etc
The console is also home-built and has: 2 touch-screen monitors / OpenCockpits 737 MCP v2 / PFC yoke / Saitek switch panel / Simionic G1000 set.
The throttle quadrant is by Throttletek and is an custom Airbus-style flightbox with throttles, flaps and spoiler controls and engine start panel. A VirtualFly TQ6+ throttle quadrant is used when flying piston engine and turbojet aircraft.
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Vector art licensed from Vecteezy: www.vecteezy.com
Audio content licensed from MotionArray: motionarray.co...
AfterEffects content licensed from MotionArray: motionarray.co...
All third-party content is used strictly in accordance with the license granted.
I am considering go to projectors from a 5 monitor system. The 5 monitors are ok but the discontinuity on the viewing surfaces unlike projectors creates issues. Have you considered a horseshoe shaped projection system. That is what I am planning. 4ft radius and 4ft legs. This keeps the screens close enough to my cockpit such that the floor can not be seen from the pilot seat.
Hi Chuck. Yes, I've considered a horseshoe shaped screen as an option. How do you configure the views for your displays? Are you on P3D? With ViewGroups and individually defined view frustums it should be possible to eliminate any perspective discontinuity between views.
I run XP11 with a fully enclosed cockpit. Other than only 180deg of coverage were you satisfied with the projectors?
@@chuckkendall7407 Sure, the general issues with projection systems notwithstanding. I will say that it took me several attempts to achieve a satisfactory warp, which is one of the reasons why I’ve made so many videos about it. But once you have it all dialled in it looks great and the effect of a seamless display is very impressive. I think if I had a bigger space I would probably stick with projectors and just look to upgrade to 4K projectors.
What projectors were you using? I’ve been looking at the optoma gt1080hdr.
@@chuckkendall7407 Originally, BenQ W1080ST. Later on I switched to BenQ W1210ST. The important part is the short throw. But I know plenty of people rate the Optoma. You need high contrast ratio and high lumens.
I had the same issue with my sim. Ultimately went for the triple TV screens mainly due to high wing of the Cessna (wanted to see the wings project out from the cockpit).....great video mate.
Subscribed to your channel. Your sim looks impressive! Looks like you have your TVs at 90 degrees? How do you find that works across the screen boundaries in terms of perspective etc?
@@FlyerOneZero hey mate. Works great and blends well. Bezels only drawback from a viewer perspective but I really don't notice them. XPlane functionality with monitors coupled with planemaker works like a dream although fair bit of effort dialling in the image across the 3 screens....
Hi, would be great to share experiences about this. I have a 737 sim real scale cockpit in a 2,5 meters wide room, it fits squeezed. First used 3 curved 48 inch tvs. Allways was a pending in my head the border at the sides (not getting full 180 deg view) and a second issue, the shift in colors between tvs because of the angle between, maybe with IPS panels would have been better but was afraid of can not flight at night because of the bad contrast or glare. Anyway were replaced by 3x55 inch flats. They covered the sides a lot better but the color shift went worse because the increased angle. Now waiting to define next option. At least thank to pandemic I have been able to sell all the screens fast. Do not know if a projector setup would work in this small room, I am seated at 1 meter from front or left wall.
So, the issue with TVs and their viewing angles certainly is a concern. However I've seen comments from people with similar setups who say it isn't an issue for them, and I think it does depend on the screen technology. From what I understand, OLED screens shouldn't have that same problem, for example. Projector setups always require short-throw projectors except in the biggest spaces, but it will depend on the throw ratio and what size image you want at that 1m distance. Ultra-short-throw projectors are always an (expensive) option. It depends on whether you want a curved projection screen or multiple screens at an angle to each other - obviously the latter is easier to do in a tight space.
TVs sound like a smart move for the space. Reminds me of a racing setup in some ways. Just watched the latest LTT vid where they made one.
Yes, I saw that. Smaller monitors than I'm proposing to have, but it's a similar idea. SW333 has a 5-TV setup that I was looking at (ua-cam.com/video/aIGye7HBu68/v-deo.html) but he has more room than I have.
You sound a bit biased towards displays to me ;-) Dark? No issue for me. Focus has not been an issue for me either. 210 degree fov? I have never seen more than 180 without making the pixels too big (with 3 projectors). So I stay with 180 degree and 3 projectors. I have one master and one visual PC (with 3080) for the 3 angles of X-Plane. GPU is never the issue with XP, only CPU is limiting fps. // Good luck mate, really curious how your setup will look like eventually! ps my curved screen is rather huge 4,80m, crab angle is ok for me. Projection is mostly aligned to the capt. seat. I got so used to it that I have no issue landing from the right even with the crab angle. I can switch to the FO seat if somebody really wants to see it optimized from/for the right seat. For me nothing beats 3 projectors. Would love to see laser 4k projectors though...
Well, switching to TVs is a new idea, and perhaps I am overly focused on the idea of doing something new… but my projection system was always a compromise given the relatively small space I have available here. I do have a habit of taking on projects because they seem technically interesting :-) I am considering doing a scale model of the set up with TVs… If that sounds mysterious, that’s deliberate, because it would be a topic for a future video!
I'm currently running p3d 5.3 on 3 55" 4k TVs at 4K resolution. I'm doing this on one PC with an I9-9900 CPU, 32GB of RAM, and an EVGA FTW 3090. The 3090 is overkill from a memory perspective. If I use default graphic settings with light weather, I get more than 60 FPS. Of course, no one wants to run on default. I've found a good balance point between settings and FPS and pretty consistently am in the 30-40 FPS range. I don't usually fly in really busy areas such as London, New York, etc. You can also have the angles for the side screens to almost to 90 degrees as the P3D view groups setup lets you adjust the view, so it doesn't look wacky. My side angles are about 80 degrees. That may help to reduce your floor space requirements.
Great to hear. Any pictures / video of your setup?
Definitely a hard call I’m in the same boat. I’m really curious what your next step you will take.
I've more or less decided to hedge my bets and will buy Immersive Designer Pro and design a projector-based setup and see how well I could achieve my goals before I commit to building anything. There will be some content on that whole process coming.
What I suspect I'll discover is that if I go with projectors again I can only have a 'naked' setup - no shell or overhead panel - whereas if I go with TVs I could have both; this was much less of an issue when I planned to build my next sim in a garden room with plenty of space, but that won't happen for years, if ever, so I need to make the choice now.
@@FlyerOneZero for my small space I’m thinken TVs for now for my self. Looking forward to your build videos 👍👍
Do you have any suggestions for someone who might be able to build a screen in the US? My DIY skills are lacking and I’m currently using 3 projectors and a 2m radius 180 degree screen…
Hi Paul. I’m not US-based, so I’m not really familiar with the situation over there. You can buy pre-made screens, but they tend to be very expensive. What do you feel is wrong with your current screen? Or do you want to extend the field of view? I rebuilt my screen after the first attempt, and the key improvement was creating a properly curved frame to support the screen surface; I did this in CAD software and then sent the file to a CNC house to machine it out of plywood for me. Which meant that it was mostly an assembly job. Perhaps that might be a better way?
@@FlyerOneZero lll
That would be a better way! I looked around at immersaview and some other higher end spots like av stumpfl (sp?) and yes, the cost of the construction itself was something around 10k+ USD. I had my house completely renovated so created a dedicated and sound insulated / blacked out room just for this project , got three optima Zh406st projectors, and the contractors took the plans and tried their best, but they blended some mdf and made it look nice, but it isn’t at all accurate, is quite flimsy, and it really is clear why it has to be done right!
I’m using fly Elise and that has been its own headache - my placement of the projectors has been a constant headache and then warping has been really tricky as well - I suppose if it was cheap or easy, anyone would do it! I’ll post some pictures of the current setup but essentially I’m coming to the conclusion that I’m a bit outside of my skill set :) and so was about to try to outsource it to someone who could take the time to do it right. Big fan of your work and wouldn’t have given this all a shot without channels like yours showing me what talented people could actually achieve! I’m resisting the urge to give up early and out the triples back on, and hopefully I’ll be able to at least have someone log on remotely to see the cameras and assist with the warping. Too long for the comments but keep up the great work! Ambient lighting is totally blocked out but as the wife just opened the door to see where I had chased off to, it really does make a difference vs. screens!
@@kitchen415 it is a skill set that you have to learn through experience, my original version was not an accurate semicircle, the projectors were badly placed, and my original set up wasn’t perspective corrected at all so I had the stretchy sides. It took me another couple of years to really get it right.
There is a guy called Nat Crea (ua-cam.com/users/melnato) who does consultancy on display systems, and he’s pretty much written the book on the stuff, but I imagine his rate is quite expensive, also he is based in Australia so would need to travel to you. Are you using the immersive calibration pro software as well as immersive display pro? If so, are you calibrating with cameras or are you doing it by hand with a marked up screen?
It sounds like the first thing you need to do is to build a new screen, or at least reinforce your existing one. Designing a circular frame was easy enough, it didn’t exactly stretch my CAD skills, and then it was just a question of locating a local CNC place that could cut it out of suitable material. Having a rigid structure behind the screen keeps everything in place.
Fly Elise also does a piece of software called immersive designer pro, which basically lets you model your room and your display surface and work out where to place projectors et cetera optimally. It’s not free, so you would have to pay for it, but it certainly takes the guesswork out of a lot of this.
Feel free to drop me an email, I don’t have the bandwidth to do proper consultancy but I’m happy to answer questions.
What projectors do you use? I am using 2 Optoma EH200ST, but thinking of updating, to improve brightness and contrast. Would appreciate any recommendations
BenQ 1210ST, but they aren't made any more. BenQ makes reasonably good projectors but I'd do some research at projectorcentral.com. Also, consider that the screen material / coating can massively increase apparent brightness and contrast. I recommend Screen Goo paint.
@@FlyerOneZero thank you. Do you have any experience with Optoma?
@@VPopkins Not personally. I hear good things, but all my experience has been with BenQ.
Thx for your views on this subject. You speak of 1 pc with 3 TV's, but if I remember correctly, your were using multiple pc's with WideView. Have you abandoned that concept and, if so, why?
Have you considered using a larger screen on the left hand side (e.g. 65")? Looking forward to the next video. BTW what are your room dimensions?
No, I'll still need to use Wideview. In the previous iteration of the sim I had one PC running the simulation, controlling hardware, and generating the instrument displays. Then I had another PC generating the outside view, which was made up of two separate views in Prepar3d. Wideview synchronised those two PCs. FPS was borderline in this setup until P3Dv5, where performance has significantly improved over time. The question is whether the latest P3D would be able to generate three views at an acceptable FPS on that same single image generator PC. If not, then I'd need multiple image generator PCs, and it's not really practical for me to build 2 (or any) new PCs - so that I can have one PC per display - at the moment.
Not sure what the benefit of a larger screen on one side would be? It would make the display lopsided. I'd prefer to have three identical TVs to get the pictures as close as possible to identical.
Room dimensions are 3.2m x 2.8m. Victorians built their rooms small but tall 🙂
@@FlyerOneZero Thanks. Some people have a larger left hand screen because they are closer to that window (being in the left seat) and they want to be able to look down to the marshaller and have a better view during left hand circuits. Looking to the right hand side the view is partly obstructed by the right hand side of the cockpit.
@@737sst That makes sense. I think I'd just have larger screens overall :-) Now I'm wondering about 65-70" screens, especially given that people report you can have angles up to 90 degrees without distortion. At this point it's about the space - how much can I use but still get around the room, and get into the sim. I have much thinking to do...