Join me as we discuss whether batoning with your knife is a must-know skill Hope Blooms "From the Ground Up" mushroom coffee hopeblooms.ca/ground-up-coffee/
Small knife, pocketknife. Make wedges and a baton. A couple of different sizes. Let the wedges do the hard work of splitting logs. Big wedges for big logs. Small wedges for.... You get the idea. You can do it all with a Swiss Army knife. There's videos that show this. But ... you know, it's fun to baton with a good knife.
SAK and an hatchet was all anyone took into the woods for spring/summer camping the whole time I was growing up. A wooden wedge is easy to make with a hatchet if you absolutely need it.
I agree that in most situations you don’t need to baton wood tostart a fire, but in my experience it does increase your chances of success and speeds up the process of getting a sustained fire
Any experienced woodcrafter knows that one of the most dangerous woodcraft tools is a short handled axe (hatchet). That being said, I always have a folding saw and a good fixed blade knife when I go into the outdoors (my edc includes SAK type folding saw and folding knife). Batoning can be used to good effect for a number of smaller chores. If necessary, one can baton a knife cross grain for notches etc. It is a worthy skill to know for the outdoors. One must get a 'feel' for the limitations of his/ her knife and respect those limitations. When you respect those limitations, you are not abusing your given knife. A lot of us have seen Felix Immler lightly baton a SAK with the blade open 90 degrees--not abusively. A well done video, Mark. Thanks for sharing.
The most dangerous woodscrafter is one that uses any edged tool without proper training. An experienced woodscrafter won't give up their camp hatchet because the inexperienced or irresponsible says they should.
It is all about practicality, and the situation you are in. If it's the right type of tool, that fits the intended purpose, then that's what you would use. Very informative. Cheers, Mark! ✌️🇨🇦
Mark one aspect I did not hear you mention, when considering the need for splitting wood, is the need at times to get at the dry inner wood revealed when splitting. Periods of rain can make it difficult to strike a survival fire. Splitting a dead log can reveal dry wood suitable for feathers which can be invaluable in sparking a fire during rainy weather.
Years ago there was a tool called a froe which was basically a long knife with an eye on one end which was inserted into a wooden handle. The tool was designed to split out wooden shingles (shakes) by batoning the blade through a log. I am 72 years old and don't swing an axe that well anymore, but I can sit in a chair on my porch and split wood all day long using the Tops El Chete and a wooden baton.
You covered it well Mark. Depends on the knife in question, and the situation. Certainly a skill that every woodsman/survivalist/camper should practice.
I agree with your point of view. I tend toward car camping and, thus, more of a log fire. I also have some decent axe skills. I can baton, but often don’t need to. Where I hike in Ontario, a small fire would be illegal, so I have no real need to baton. I did learn how (and should probably practice some more on my next camping trip anyway), and am glad I did. I think it all comes down to the right tool and the right skill in the right time and place. I always appreciate your approach to things, both skills and reviews. Thanks.
Excellent topic and well presented. Years ago when campfires were the center of my camp; ax work and skills were paramount. Now that I use small stoves it's saws and knife especially if the trip involves engaging others and introducing them to the outdoors. Batoning is a safer method (especially if you station the blade into the wood before the strike) to teach inexperienced, eager minds. And, you just can't beat the primal satisfaction of whack, whack split. The unexpected downside to batoning is that if you show a young person how to baton - you are out of a job for the rest of that trip 😁 Keep up the great work.
I always thought all Lady Slippers were protected here in Nova Scotia but a far more knowledgeable friend set me straight recently. Only the Ram's Head Lady Slipper is protected here. That being said I still don't harm or disturb any Lady Slipper I come across. As far as batoning with my knife, I choose to baton so I don't have to carry my hatchet. For just day trips and small cooking fires batoning is a great way to save weight and process a little bit of wood. When I'm heading out for a night and going to have a campfire then I take a hatchet or axe. Thanks for sharing Mark.
As a Boy Scout many years ago, I was taught that the best tool to use is the tool you have with you. If your wilderness trip requires a lot of wood processing for fires and camp implements, then you will need heavy duty wood processing tools. I would carry a saw, an axe, large chopper knife and smaller knives for various tasks. Some people for whom weight is not an issue even bring chain saws. These choices are meant for situations where wood processing is a primary consideration; maybe even to build a small shelter. But, if your primary consideration is a hiking or canoeing adventure, you have to plan accordingly. If all you are doing is building a fire for cooking or warmth, then the requirements are narrowed. You don’t need a camp axe or a large buck-saw: a folding saw and a large knife (I use a Kabar BK-9) are sufficient. But, many people are fond of the smaller Mora Bushcraft Black or Companion. To build a proper fire requires a heat source, tinder, kindling, and large fuel logs. So, how do you get tinder, kindling, and fuel and what are your tool options? Remember, the best tool is the tool you’ve got. You can make any of the aforementioned tools work if that’s all you’ve got. Felix Immler can do just about anything with a Swiss Army knife (including batoning). But, what is needed for a fire is tinder, kindling, and larger fuel and what tool/tools can get you what you need? For tinder, a knife that can scrape fat wood or create a feather stick is really nice. For kindling, your options are limited to gathering dry, dead twigs, or create kindling from larger logs and this requires batoning. There is no way around it, to get sufficient supply of kindling requires batoning. That is why all the top bushcrafters do it. Can you use a chainsaw to provide tinder, kindling, and fuel? Sure. Can you use a SAK to do the same? Sure…well at least Felix Immler can. And this is why the top Bushcrafters want a tough bushcrafting knife that can scrape, baton, and chop. Your first choice to build a fire is gathering the tinder, kindling, and fuel. No need to waste valuable time and energy scraping, batoning, and sawing/chopping when you can effortlessly gather all of the stuff you need. But, if you can’t find suitable dry kindling, then batoning is absolutely necessary to turn larger pieces of wood into small pieces of wood suitable for building a sustainable fire. Or, you can carry a gas stove. That works too.
Hey Mark! Great video as always. So I am an amateur bushcrafter and amateur everything really LOL. I am always learning. But personally I wouldn't use an expensive bushcraft knife to baton, unless its an emergency and I didn't have anything else. I don't think it's good to bang on my knife that I reserve for carving, cutting, and other uses. I would rather use a larger knife like a scrama or even small machete to do my batonning. Also using a small knife for batonning there's more chance you're gonna hit the handle or even your hand, I just think a longer larger knife makes more sense for batonning, I definitely agree it is necessary for making small wood for burning, and making blanks for carving spoons etc. I also think it's safer than using a hatchet or axe, even for the experienced Just my 2 cents. I am always open to learn and will never stop learning. I think it's wonderful that we can learn from each other. That sounds like a great coffee and a great company. I love any organization that helps youth and teaches them life skills. The lady slipper is our state flower here in Minnesota and I believe it is protected. Anywho great video. Have a wonderful day!
I suppose anyone can have strong opinions about anything. My general rule has been to listen to opinions , evaluate them and form my own but try not to hold them too strongly because conditions can change. As far as batoning I’ve batonned axes and hatchets as well as knives with no ill effects. I suppose I have been careful, lucky or wasn’t strong enough to do damage. When I’ve wanted smaller bits of wood batoning has gotten the job done and the tool has been useful afterward. I’ve found the combination of knife and saw to be good for processing wood efficiently.
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Thank you for acknowledging my comment. I’m writing this river side as I drink coffee and wait for the fog to lift. I’m in an unusual place of good cell service as we continue our journey down river. I’m using my kayak instead of my canoe due to the patches of “white water” on this river and being unwilling to portage around those areas, call me lazy lol.
Knowing how to baton is a very useful skill I think, in an emergency situation I think you are way more likely to have a knife on your person than an axe for one. I think a person should focus more on knowing what a quality knife is, one that can handle such a task with ease. I have batoned a lot of wood, not necessarily because I had to, but because I enjoy doing it, I find it to be almost therapeutic, that said in all the batoning I have done I have never harmed one of my knives in the slightest, but I do pride myself on knowing what a quality knife is and how it is used. Great video Mark! And thanks for sharing. About the lady slipper, I know nothing about it or how it reproduces, but it does sound like something that should be protected, it would be a shame for it to disappear.
Well Mark I have a lot of knives and they all do some things well depending upon how they were designed. I have some that I use in cooking and some I use in fire making. I don't use my food prep knives to baton, and I don't baton with a machete. I use the tool for what it was intended to do. Good video my friend.
Provincial flower of Nova Scotia, it is a protected plant. There is a spot at my camp with a space about the size of four queen size beds that has about 3 dozen plants! The Lady Slipper was my late father’s favorite. 3:50
Its always interesting to see someone get out into a wilderness that they are not used to. I still vividly remember my brother in law visiting us from Phoenix and he was trying to light a decent size stick of wood by just putting a match to it... I looked at him like he was crazy and was asking him what he was doing... He was like man this wood is not catching on fire, back at home this would have already been in flames. I laughed at him saying well that wood was on the ground so its probably half saturated in water... Welcome to the east coast! As far as the subject of batoning wood I think the Japanese have it right. A silky saw paired with a good ole Japanese Nata work great for camp splitting. Its much safer than having someone splitting wood with a axe in the campsite especially if there are little ones running about.
Yes, batoning is a skill and sometimes it’s the most safe and practical solution. 1. You need to have knowledge about the knife’s capabilities and limitations so that you can use the correct knife for the task at hand. 2. You need knowledge about wood to choose the appropriate piece of wood to split with the knife. Hardness, moisture level, grain orientation, knot placement etc. 3. You need knife skills. You need to know where to place the knife on the log, what grip to use, when and where you push or pull on the knife handle, where to hit the spine to initiate the split and where to hit once the blade has sunk in, when to stop hitting the knife etc. You must also know how to get the knife out safely if it gets stuck.
The UKs famous bushcraft and survival expert Ray Mears, has often shown batoning in his books and videos. He just uses his axe for the big stuff, and knife for the smaller bits. I agree with your opinion regarding axes.... Even Ray Mears advises against using them in low light... safer with an apropriate knife. All the best 👍
Right on. I was going to list a number of experts who baton. Including Ray Mears, Paul Kirtley, Dan Wowack, Dave Canterbury but decided to leave that out. Thanks for commenting
Hi Mark 👋 Batoning A Knife Is The Owners Business & If It Breaks Or Not Is On Them & People Calling It "Stupid" Well That Is Just WRONG !! You Might Baton Any Knife You Can & I Might Not Baton Any Of My Knives But Regardless,,,,,,,It's Our Own Business What We Want To Do With Our Own Knives (That We Paid For) Take Care Now Mark & Happy Batoning Out There. 😅
that's absolutely true but it's really annoying that knifemakers have to tend toward needlessly thick blades because some guy who has only youtube skills thinks ever knife needs to be able to be hammered through giant knotty piece of oak
I prefer splitting wood with a knife especially for safety reasons and second it makes me more and more trust the knife if they can withstand the heavy use knowing it is definitely a one option tool if need to,I do like using an axe just for keeping up with axe skills
I was a "you must have an axe" person then one trip out I was splitting wood to get to the dryer internal wood and missed the centre of the wood . Of course Murphy said oh there is his foot . Tip of axe buried 1 inch into my foot . So shoe open and cut straight underneath . 28 km trip back out of bush on a very sore foot . Knife is safer and definitely easier to control . Keep an axe in my 4x4 but hike with knife and saw . And personally I think it is easier in the long run . 😊
I had a similar incident. Was using good kneeling technique until I got the axe stuck in a billet. When I worked it free, it swung across my knee. Forty minute drive and only 7 stiches. I considered myself lucky. Part of the problem was doing it while I was tired. Thanks for commenting
Batoning… I’ve used the hand processing method as well as the axe/hatchet method, however… I prefer to use a well made knife made with the right steel, tempered the right way! Why, because I carve, forage, use in rope management, build shelter and prepare food with it and it’s lighter weight on my belt makes it dissappear in comparison to even the lightest of small boys axes.
So in my experience, there are lots of times I want to have a fire in my stick stove, or a small fire, but most of the stuff around is damp, so I want to split smaller sticks maybe 2” or less to get to the dryer inner. An axe is just a nuisance for something small like that. I find it’s actually easier to batton. There is also the point to be made that if you’re carrying youre stuff on your back, an axe, even a hatchet big enough to be useful, is a lot of weight. So why not just have a solid knife you can use for camp chores and small splits? I used to think an axe was super important, but as my modest skills have grown, and my knife collection has grown, I feel they’re less and less important. At least for lower impact, lighter travelling trips, and an addition to an axe for bigger trips, maybe in colder weather where bigger fuel is needed. I’ve read a point about it may depend a bit on where you’re coming from, which you made also Mark. Eastern Canada can be pretty wet, where even small sticks can be a total pain in the butt to light. So even very small stuff may need splitting. This may not be a problem for others. As for the flower, things should be protected when they’re in danger of disappearing.
Great video, Mark. I prefer batoning because it's more controlled and feels safer to me. I do like carrying a folding saw but I finding batonibg more therapeutic and relaxing
Batoning is a marketing tool for selling those big knives you mentioned to the modern bushcrafter. I'm in the camp of no batoning as a Boy Scout from the early 70's. Axe and hatchet skills should be just as important as knife skills if one choses to use them. I've had zero accidents over several decades of using them responsibly in the field and at home. One of my first arguments of not batoning is protecting a primary survival tool that might last several generations when used as intended - a carver and slicer. It may take only one use being struck by a baton to expose a manufacturing flaw that would have otherwise never been an issue if used as intended. Having the skills and knowledge to build a fire without batoning seems far more important and valuable. I would consider those that have been sold on the idea that batoning is a necessity has been handicapped.
Mark, I recall in scouting and camping as an adult one of the most nerve wracking things to teach someone is to safely split wood with an axe. Our Troop used to raise money selling firewood year round. Bow saws were always the go to for the newer and less experienced. Then often move into using a hammer and wedge. once they stopped breaking handles and hitting the ground and then themselves and only then did we teach them how to split with an axe. Battoning was something I learned later and have a very specific knife for an Ontario Spec plus alpha. With a 7 inch blade, weighing in at less then 9 ounces it is a very light and effective tool when you do not need the power or weight of a hatchet or axe. I hope this adds to the conversation.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st In teaching a young person to process firewood one does not start out with a skill that requires balance, form and practice to control a tool that can severely damage a limb. Like teaching a baby to walk before they run or letting go of a bike seat there is always that moment of pause before they fly.
@@BeOpen-mg7tq It doesn't require any of that ffs, I was 7 years old when I got my first hatchet. Two rules, you never swing a hatchet with your hand anywhere near the wood you're splitting and you make sure that you're positioned so if you miss that you hit the block or the ground, not your leg. It's really simple. Not all kids have the same maturity level and they might need to be a little older to follow the rules, but it's not about form and skill and all that stuff. safety comes from making mistakes safe, not in never making mistakes.
I guess you will always get both sides of the argument on this subject, and it is a very personal preference as what to use. Personally I never batton with my knife, because from a young age I have been using a variety of axes to process wood and my knife is for skinning deer and other game during hunting and food prep. When I am out in the bush, I carry a small axe and my knife, the axe has more power and control (in my opinion) and split wood faster. Having said that, in southern Australia where I live, I hardly need to split wood as there is an abundance of dead wood in varying sizes from twigs to logs and burn very easily even in winter. Only on very wet days I have to split some wood with axe to get to the dry part and I do that with axe. So, yes there is no right or wrong it is just personal preference, whichever best serves you. Cheers from Down Under.
nearly every place in north america that people are camping has abundant firestarting material and dry deadfall. there is not a forest in canada that doesn't have birch or pine sitting there ready for you to make an inferno out of it at the slightest spark. 10 inch knives and giant silky saws is a youtube invention
G'day Mark, like the coffee business concept, great name for it too, and reckon I'd go for mushrooms well before cheese ; ) 25 years for that plant to propagate itself ......... and doesn't transplant, ....... and is native .......I'd be protecting it immediately !!! RE: batoning .... (mostly with, but certainly across the grain in the absence of a saw), well, I'd turn it around and ask ................ why wouldn't cha want to ? ......... It basically gives you a froe, ....... without carrying a froe. Fire and shelter building for a start, (not limited to, though especially in a survival situation). Dry wood, kindling from one piece, fat wood, feathersticking and the like, perhaps a bow drill set, are the key ones, at least to get it up and going. After that, whole logs vs splitting, or a combination, is debatable depending on moisture and the type of fire you want/need ...... and of course what is available may well have the last word ; ) Shelter building does benefit from half lap joints, mortise and tenon and such, as well as potentially splitting down roofing material. And definitely for me ....... crafting bushes !!!. Yep, spot on Mark, the right tool for the job !!! .... and furthermore, backup needs to be well considered too !!! keeping in mind you aint bring'n half your woodworking shop, or tool shed and on the other side of the equation, as much as enjoy my Ranger 78 and other folders, (I do have a Recon 1, Gator premo and a Buck 110 as solid backlock examples), I'm sure not keen on "relying" on those way out in the sticks ; ) I subscribe religiously to the 3 tool rule. i.e. a big fella of some description, I prefer to carry a machete type tool, (I favor a parang or seax), or a very large knife, (BK-9 size), on the trail, rather than an axe/hatchet, not so much from a safety perspective, I'm sure you're aware there a coupla ways to use smaller axes and hatchets with absolute confidence, (incidentally batoning is one of them), its more because of the greater versatility IMO, (and again enhanced by batoning), a robust 5-6 in belt knife and a folding saw. In the event of a loss or failure, any two of these and you're still well covered, but even one alone will work in both directions to get out of strife. In fairness, splitting with a saw alone, I'd make a start, (cracks, if any, aint always straight or aligned), and baton a wedge the rest of the way. Cheers Duke. P.S. Re; that black mark, I was think'n ..... if it grows, shrinks or otherwise changes over time, might narrow down the possibilities. Then again, ...... a sample analysis would be quicker ; )
Hi Duke. Do you spend a lot of time crafting bushes?😅 I agree with all you points. Turns out, the black mark is actually a lightening strike. Thanks for commenting
The difference in power between using an axe/hatchet to split wood and using a knife is enormous. When batoning wood with a knife, the knife starts off every stroke in touch with the wood - you're applying power to the back of the knife using some sort of tool. With an axe, the power is generally applied by the movement of the axe to come into contact with the wood. The axe is also heavier than the knife, and that mass and movement mean the energy applied to the wood is enormously amplified - it's why splitting with an axe is so much more efficient. But that also means that without proper training and safety precautions, that axe can create much more devastating injuries if something goes wrong. So if you've got an axe and know and have trained how to use it, go for it. But a knife is almost certainly an easier skill to both teach someone new to the craft, and less dangerous even if something goes wrong. Just my $.02.
a broken knife blade embedded in a branch that you're hitting with a baton in the middle of nowhere is very dangerous, you're right that an axe requires proper technique, but you shouldn't be out in the woods alone if you haven't bothered to learn to do it safely
I believe it is a great skill to have and any “bush” knife that won’t hold up to battening is junk (excluding mora knives and the like) regardless of the price of the knife. The best tool is the one you have with you and anyone can lose their gear.
I was getting excited about the possibility of trying a new coffee ☕️, but mushrooms are a gout trigger and I have had gout attacks several times in the past 20 years, and I avoid trigger foods and dehydration, which, with a sedentary lifestyle, combine to make one susceptible to gout. Now I will listen to the rest of your video. Thanks in advance. I batoned a lot of wood the past few years as I spent more time on the Appalachian Trail in my attempt to 1) finish it in sections (done) and, 2) To hike the entire length within a year (terminated by a knee injury). My new knee is taking forever to work like the original (since April 23rd). I took a walk on a local, graded, woods path a couple of days ago. It was slightly painful, but delightful at the same time. I have been a saw and ax (or hatchet) guy most of my life, but enjoy batoning small pieces of wood for my lightweight, small wood stoves, and it's better to use dry chunks than damp, finger-thick bits of branches.
Using a knife to split up to wrist thick branches not a problem for me, it annoys me more when you see people with light 4" blades saying they aren't goid chopper's. When chopping I find an axe or machete works best.😂👍🏻
If I use a hatchet., (which I rarely do) I baton it, as I do with my knife. I am almost always alone in the wood´s and I can’t risk having an accident swinging an axe.
Obviously there is no hard and fast rule to battoning or not battoning with a knife. For me personally, I like a larger axe ( some will argue that). I feel with a smaller shorter axe, I am more prone to misuse and and injury. Therefore I use my larger axe to process wood down until it doesn’t become practical to process the particular piece of wood with the axe. I then batton with my knife if I need it processed down to a point beyond what my axe can handle. Overall my thoughts are that if you want to baton with your knife go ahead. If you don’t want to-don’t. We all have different abilities, environments, and experiences that dictate our answers.
I personally don’t own an axe. I have been a firewood merchant in the past and often used hydraulic splitters, mauls and axes. For my own use I’ve used a robust knife for splitting kindling. People that completely oppose the use of a knife for splitting, to me are a little narrow minded and have probably never tried it, they are so passionate on the subject they believe there should be a legal punishment for knife abuse. Me I do my own thing, they can do theirs. If they want to limit themselves that’s fine by me. 😊
👍👍👍 .. a good discussion, thanks. Watching some going at it .. batoning (or chopping wood .. 😱 "watch the legs, watch the shins!"), at times makes my toes curl 😳 😏. Do I 'baton' .. yes, when necessary and then lightly, very lightly .. more often than not, a firm 'push' or tap on the blade with a gloved hand or another piece of wood. My knife is a Terävä Jääkäripuukko 140 Carbon, so there is plenty robust blade on hand. Axe. I have a beautiful little Granfors Bruks Mini Hatchet that I love to play with .. although generally, it takes 3rd place behind my knife and folding saw. I never 'baton' my little beauty out of respect for it's eye. There are safer ways of splitting wood with it. Heavy 'chopping' .. nope. That's what a saw is for. That said, the Swiss Forests have their own set of rules. Here, up North against the Rhine, conditions vary from very wet to extremely dry with a varying favourable 'window' inbetween. Wet .. I harvest during the good season and then air / sun dry on my flat balcony for later use. Good forest management results in more than enough 'detritus' (purposefully) left behind for we 'scavengers' 😁. The wet conditions favour more, wood brought in than harvested on site. Dry .. fire bans put that to rest. The Swiss have absolutely no sense of humour regarding .. eye-watering fines being the order of the day and at times, helicopters with thermal imaging being used to weed out offenders .. not to forget the 'Swiss Grannies' .. they see and report EVERYTHING! 😁. Inbetween .. open fires nilly-willy in the forest are generally frowned upon (not completely banned though .. be responsible about it). Provision is made in the forests by authorities for dedicated open fire pits which can be found on local printed maps and google maps. Sometimes, even wood is provided to reduce ad-hoc 'foraging' of live wood in the absence of dead wood. Elsewhere, I use Folding / Hobo Stoves which themselves do not require 'logs'. 'Stupid' .. that's a matter of opinion. Each to their own and unless in a case of potential serious harm to others or the individual, best kept to oneself. Thanks for the share .. much food for thought and debate .. take care ..
Mark, the last time I looked up our fire ban it seemed to only focus on burning brush. I could find no mention of self contained wood stoves (Ikea, Emerlite, etc.) nor could I find out if the ban also covers alcohol fuel stoves both liquid and DragonCube styles. Any info on this? People can do what they want with their knives, but I reserve batoning only for when everything else is wet. People should reserve their opinions until they need a fire after 3 days of heavy rain. :) I have done it with partial tang, plastic handle Mora knives, but recommend only full tang knives.
I can only speak for Nova Scotia and small wood stoves. I don't recall if you are from here. If so, shoot me an email and I will fill you in on the regulations. Thanks for commenting
I don't understand why people get so riled up over something they can just choose for themselves... In my view, it all depends on the materials at hand, what you're doing and what you are carrying. No one wants to tow an axe while on an 8 hour hike over a 4000+ footer. That's when I carry a cheap and light Mora and a tiny pocket saw. If I'm building a large fire I will try to avoid any wood processing at all other than cutting to length and sometimes even let the fire cut wood pieces in half for me. If I just want to cook with a twig stove and cannot find enough decent smalls (happens in popular areas) I will definitely use my knife and a pocket saw for processing. If it's an emergency, I will use everything in my possession and all my knowledge to get the fire going short of using a rock or try to beat through knots... just common sense. I have knives that I baby and some I picked up just for practicing and also figuring out what I like or dislike about a knife and what not to do.
I lived in the Alaskan bush for over 30 years, I never buttoned with my precious knife. Now I live in the high desert of Oregon and batton all the time due to using a small wood gas stove. I get a chuckle out of some of this bushcraft stuff. What I really find amusing is in last couple of years bushcraft channels turning into cooking shows. Ramsey needs to start practicing bushcraft. Lol! No offense, really! I'm just more of a mountain man, or maybe nomadic hunter-gatherer. Fun to watch, though...
well said. these guys will pack in a saw and a dutch oven and a cast iron frying pan and a cooler full of food and a 10 inch knife and say a hatchet is just too heavy
@beowulf_of_wall_st The Dutch oven part is funny as hell. I pack coffee pot and foil. I'm starting my channel this month, if I show cooking stuff, it will probably be wrapped in foil that was breathing less than an hour before. On the batoning, I made a purpose built 6" froe from a lawn mower blade. My plan is to keep real and the sh#t that really works in long term living. I'm subbed here and enjoy the content, Kind of like watching Hogan's Heros. Thanks
@MarkYoungBushcraft Hey Mark, do us an old school wrapped in foil in the ashes type of meal. Maybe some brats n peppers. It really is a forgotten art. Thanks
@@luckylarry5112 Funny, I was just thinking about doing something like that. I will need to time it with out fire ban but I will place it on my list. Thanks for the suggestion
Fires start best with small, thin pieces of wood. Agree? So, for fire starting wood, use a knife. Scrape, shave and baton and……. Fire! Axes are for splitting and chopping wood . Usually for storage. Isn’t life simple?
Before I watch whatever suggestions or arguments you bring to the discussion... I personally would have to be in desperate straits to use a good knife in that way. Even with "solid tang" into the handle and all that good stuff, for me it's just using the wrong tool for the wrong job. Worse than using a wrench as a hammer or a screwdriver as a chisel. Just no. If I did ever see the potential for me needing to split wood in this way while out hiking, I would carry a dedicated blade with a thicker 'heel' I think it's called. I have one in my kit, but of course on stupid YT you can't share pictures or links, so you'll have to use your imagination.
I spent years in scouts making fires in all kinds of conditions, winter camping, etc. Never saw anyone hit a knife with a stick until UA-cam. There is literally never a need to do this for a fire. If you are batonning you are carrying a saw, if that's the case and you also refuse to carry a hatchet for some reason, and you really need to get at the center of some logs you can saw them halfway and break them in the y of a tree. Hardwood forests usually have birch bark or other highly flammable materials available and your time and energy is better spent gathering bark. The real question is why you are going into hardwood forests in poor weather without a proper splitting implement? The whole thing is silly. Giant knives are toys and there's nothing wrong with enjoying your toys, but don't act like you aren't playing with it.
Small knife, pocketknife. Make wedges and a baton. A couple of different sizes. Let the wedges do the hard work of splitting logs. Big wedges for big logs. Small wedges for.... You get the idea. You can do it all with a Swiss Army knife. There's videos that show this. But ... you know, it's fun to baton with a good knife.
Agree .. wedges are a good alternative.
SAK and an hatchet was all anyone took into the woods for spring/summer camping the whole time I was growing up. A wooden wedge is easy to make with a hatchet if you absolutely need it.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
I agree that in most situations you don’t need to baton wood tostart a fire, but in my experience it does increase your chances of success and speeds up the process of getting a sustained fire
I agree. Thanks for commenting Alex
I think it's a skill all woods men should have in their tool box.
My thinking exactly. Thanks for commenting
Any experienced woodcrafter knows that one of the most dangerous woodcraft tools is a short handled axe (hatchet). That being said, I always have a folding saw and a good fixed blade knife when I go into the outdoors (my edc includes SAK type folding saw and folding knife). Batoning can be used to good effect for a number of smaller chores. If necessary, one can baton a knife cross grain for notches etc. It is a worthy skill to know for the outdoors. One must get a 'feel' for the limitations of his/ her knife and respect those limitations. When you respect those limitations, you are not abusing your given knife. A lot of us have seen Felix Immler lightly baton a SAK with the blade open 90 degrees--not abusively. A well done video, Mark. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for commenting
The most dangerous woodscrafter is one that uses any edged tool without proper training. An experienced woodscrafter won't give up their camp hatchet because the inexperienced or irresponsible says they should.
Happy to learn about the Lady Slipper. We have them in Minnesota but I didn't know many details.
Amazing plant and a joy to find. Thanks for commenting
It is all about practicality, and the situation you are in. If it's the right type of tool, that fits the intended purpose, then that's what you would use. Very informative. Cheers, Mark! ✌️🇨🇦
Well said! Thanks for commenting
Mark one aspect I did not hear you mention, when considering the need for splitting wood, is the need at times to get at the dry inner wood revealed when splitting. Periods of rain can make it difficult to strike a survival fire. Splitting a dead log can reveal dry wood suitable for feathers which can be invaluable in sparking a fire during rainy weather.
You are correct. I did not say it specifically but was thinking it when I said splitting wood for a fire. Thanks for commenting
Years ago there was a tool called a froe which was basically a long knife with an eye on one end which was inserted into a wooden handle. The tool was designed to split out wooden shingles (shakes) by batoning the blade through a log. I am 72 years old and don't swing an axe that well anymore, but I can sit in a chair on my porch and split wood all day long using the Tops El Chete and a wooden baton.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
Thanks Mark for great video. Interesting conversation, in the end depends on what you need and what told you have available.
Very true! Thanks for commenting
You covered it well Mark. Depends on the knife in question, and the situation. Certainly a skill that every woodsman/survivalist/camper should practice.
I agree. Thanks for commenting
I agree with your point of view. I tend toward car camping and, thus, more of a log fire. I also have some decent axe skills. I can baton, but often don’t need to. Where I hike in Ontario, a small fire would be illegal, so I have no real need to baton. I did learn how (and should probably practice some more on my next camping trip anyway), and am glad I did. I think it all comes down to the right tool and the right skill in the right time and place.
I always appreciate your approach to things, both skills and reviews. Thanks.
I agree. Right tool for the right job. All skills are worth knowing and practicing. Thanks for commenting
Excellent topic and well presented. Years ago when campfires were the center of my camp; ax work and skills were paramount. Now that I use small stoves it's saws and knife especially if the trip involves engaging others and introducing them to the outdoors. Batoning is a safer method (especially if you station the blade into the wood before the strike) to teach inexperienced, eager minds. And, you just can't beat the primal satisfaction of whack, whack split. The unexpected downside to batoning is that if you show a young person how to baton - you are out of a job for the rest of that trip 😁
Keep up the great work.
bashing a hardened steel knife with a piece of wood through a knotty branch is far from the safest technique
Well said. Thanks for commenting
@@beowulf_of_wall_stAgreed, but my companions would never be tasked with that.
Thank you Mark, Happy Saturday !
Same to you. Thanks for commenting
I always thought all Lady Slippers were protected here in Nova Scotia but a far more knowledgeable friend set me straight recently. Only the Ram's Head Lady Slipper is protected here. That being said I still don't harm or disturb any Lady Slipper I come across. As far as batoning with my knife, I choose to baton so I don't have to carry my hatchet. For just day trips and small cooking fires batoning is a great way to save weight and process a little bit of wood. When I'm heading out for a night and going to have a campfire then I take a hatchet or axe. Thanks for sharing Mark.
Right on brother. The Lady Slippers are so delicate they should always be left alone and enjoyed where they are. Thanks for commenting Steve
As a Boy Scout many years ago, I was taught that the best tool to use is the tool you have with you. If your wilderness trip requires a lot of wood processing for fires and camp implements, then you will need heavy duty wood processing tools. I would carry a saw, an axe, large chopper knife and smaller knives for various tasks. Some people for whom weight is not an issue even bring chain saws. These choices are meant for situations where wood processing is a primary consideration; maybe even to build a small shelter. But, if your primary consideration is a hiking or canoeing adventure, you have to plan accordingly. If all you are doing is building a fire for cooking or warmth, then the requirements are narrowed. You don’t need a camp axe or a large buck-saw: a folding saw and a large knife (I use a Kabar BK-9) are sufficient. But, many people are fond of the smaller Mora Bushcraft Black or Companion. To build a proper fire requires a heat source, tinder, kindling, and large fuel logs. So, how do you get tinder, kindling, and fuel and what are your tool options? Remember, the best tool is the tool you’ve got. You can make any of the aforementioned tools work if that’s all you’ve got. Felix Immler can do just about anything with a Swiss Army knife (including batoning). But, what is needed for a fire is tinder, kindling, and larger fuel and what tool/tools can get you what you need? For tinder, a knife that can scrape fat wood or create a feather stick is really nice. For kindling, your options are limited to gathering dry, dead twigs, or create kindling from larger logs and this requires batoning. There is no way around it, to get sufficient supply of kindling requires batoning. That is why all the top bushcrafters do it. Can you use a chainsaw to provide tinder, kindling, and fuel? Sure. Can you use a SAK to do the same? Sure…well at least Felix Immler can. And this is why the top Bushcrafters want a tough bushcrafting knife that can scrape, baton, and chop. Your first choice to build a fire is gathering the tinder, kindling, and fuel. No need to waste valuable time and energy scraping, batoning, and sawing/chopping when you can effortlessly gather all of the stuff you need. But, if you can’t find suitable dry kindling, then batoning is absolutely necessary to turn larger pieces of wood into small pieces of wood suitable for building a sustainable fire. Or, you can carry a gas stove. That works too.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
Hey Mark! Great video as always. So I am an amateur bushcrafter and amateur everything really LOL. I am always learning. But personally I wouldn't use an expensive bushcraft knife to baton, unless its an emergency and I didn't have anything else. I don't think it's good to bang on my knife that I reserve for carving, cutting, and other uses. I would rather use a larger knife like a scrama or even small machete to do my batonning. Also using a small knife for batonning there's more chance you're gonna hit the handle or even your hand, I just think a longer larger knife makes more sense for batonning, I definitely agree it is necessary for making small wood for burning, and making blanks for carving spoons etc. I also think it's safer than using a hatchet or axe, even for the experienced Just my 2 cents. I am always open to learn and will never stop learning. I think it's wonderful that we can learn from each other. That sounds like a great coffee and a great company. I love any organization that helps youth and teaches them life skills. The lady slipper is our state flower here in Minnesota and I believe it is protected. Anywho great video. Have a wonderful day!
Your thought are most welcome. Thanks for commenting
I suppose anyone can have strong opinions about anything. My general rule has been to listen to opinions , evaluate them and form my own but try not to hold them too strongly because conditions can change. As far as batoning I’ve batonned axes and hatchets as well as knives with no ill effects. I suppose I have been careful, lucky or wasn’t strong enough to do damage. When I’ve wanted smaller bits of wood batoning has gotten the job done and the tool has been useful afterward. I’ve found the combination of knife and saw to be good for processing wood efficiently.
Well said. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Thank you for acknowledging my comment. I’m writing this river side as I drink coffee and wait for the fog to lift. I’m in an unusual place of good cell service as we continue our journey down river. I’m using my kayak instead of my canoe due to the patches of “white water” on this river and being unwilling to portage around those areas, call me lazy lol.
Knowing how to baton is a very useful skill I think, in an emergency situation I think you are way more likely to have a knife on your person than an axe for one. I think a person should focus more on knowing what a quality knife is, one that can handle such a task with ease.
I have batoned a lot of wood, not necessarily because I had to, but because I enjoy doing it,
I find it to be almost therapeutic, that said in all the batoning I have done I have never harmed one of my knives in the slightest, but I do pride myself on knowing what a quality knife is and how it is used.
Great video Mark!
And thanks for sharing. About the lady slipper, I know nothing about it or how it reproduces, but it does sound like something that should be protected, it would be a shame for it to disappear.
I agree with you totally. Thanks for commenting
Well Mark I have a lot of knives and they all do some things well depending upon how they were designed. I have some that I use in cooking and some I use in fire making. I don't use my food prep knives to baton, and I don't baton with a machete. I use the tool for what it was intended to do. Good video my friend.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
Provincial flower of Nova Scotia, it is a protected plant. There is a spot at my camp with a space about the size of four queen size beds that has about 3 dozen plants! The Lady Slipper was my late father’s favorite. 3:50
That is a lot of lady slippers for sure. All pink or some white, yellow?
Its always interesting to see someone get out into a wilderness that they are not used to. I still vividly remember my brother in law visiting us from Phoenix and he was trying to light a decent size stick of wood by just putting a match to it... I looked at him like he was crazy and was asking him what he was doing... He was like man this wood is not catching on fire, back at home this would have already been in flames. I laughed at him saying well that wood was on the ground so its probably half saturated in water... Welcome to the east coast! As far as the subject of batoning wood I think the Japanese have it right. A silky saw paired with a good ole Japanese Nata work great for camp splitting. Its much safer than having someone splitting wood with a axe in the campsite especially if there are little ones running about.
Great story and good point about Japanese tools. Thanks for commenting
Yes, batoning is a skill and sometimes it’s the most safe and practical solution.
1. You need to have knowledge about the knife’s capabilities and limitations so that you can use the correct knife for the task at hand.
2. You need knowledge about wood to choose the appropriate piece of wood to split with the knife. Hardness, moisture level, grain orientation, knot placement etc.
3. You need knife skills. You need to know where to place the knife on the log, what grip to use, when and where you push or pull on the knife handle, where to hit the spine to initiate the split and where to hit once the blade has sunk in, when to stop hitting the knife etc. You must also know how to get the knife out safely if it gets stuck.
Thanks for commenting
The UKs famous bushcraft and survival expert Ray Mears, has often shown batoning in his books and videos. He just uses his axe for the big stuff, and knife for the smaller bits. I agree with your opinion regarding axes.... Even Ray Mears advises against using them in low light... safer with an apropriate knife. All the best 👍
Right on. I was going to list a number of experts who baton. Including Ray Mears, Paul Kirtley, Dan Wowack, Dave Canterbury but decided to leave that out. Thanks for commenting
Hi Mark 👋
Batoning A Knife Is The Owners Business & If It Breaks Or Not Is On Them & People Calling It "Stupid"
Well That Is Just WRONG !!
You Might Baton Any Knife You Can & I Might Not Baton Any Of My Knives But Regardless,,,,,,,It's Our Own Business What We Want To Do With Our Own Knives (That We Paid For)
Take Care Now Mark & Happy Batoning Out There.
😅
I agree. Thanks for commenting Derek
Agreed .. their Circus, their Clowns.
that's absolutely true but it's really annoying that knifemakers have to tend toward needlessly thick blades because some guy who has only youtube skills thinks ever knife needs to be able to be hammered through giant knotty piece of oak
I prefer splitting wood with a knife especially for safety reasons and second it makes me more and more trust the knife if they can withstand the heavy use knowing it is definitely a one option tool if need to,I do like using an axe just for keeping up with axe skills
Right on. I agree. Thanks for commenting
I was a "you must have an axe" person then one trip out I was splitting wood to get to the dryer internal wood and missed the centre of the wood . Of course Murphy said oh there is his foot . Tip of axe buried 1 inch into my foot . So shoe open and cut straight underneath . 28 km trip back out of bush on a very sore foot . Knife is safer and definitely easier to control . Keep an axe in my 4x4 but hike with knife and saw . And personally I think it is easier in the long run . 😊
I had a similar incident. Was using good kneeling technique until I got the axe stuck in a billet. When I worked it free, it swung across my knee. Forty minute drive and only 7 stiches. I considered myself lucky. Part of the problem was doing it while I was tired. Thanks for commenting
Batoning… I’ve used the hand processing method as well as the axe/hatchet method, however… I prefer to use a well made knife made with the right steel, tempered the right way! Why, because I carve, forage, use in rope management, build shelter and prepare food with it and it’s lighter weight on my belt makes it dissappear in comparison to even the lightest of small boys axes.
Well said brother. Thanks for commenting
Lady Slippers Are Protected Here ! Great Coffee Shared & Had 1 Along With You, Great Conversation Thanks Mark ! ATB T God Bless
Where is here Terry?
So in my experience, there are lots of times I want to have a fire in my stick stove, or a small fire, but most of the stuff around is damp, so I want to split smaller sticks maybe 2” or less to get to the dryer inner. An axe is just a nuisance for something small like that. I find it’s actually easier to batton.
There is also the point to be made that if you’re carrying youre stuff on your back, an axe, even a hatchet big enough to be useful, is a lot of weight. So why not just have a solid knife you can use for camp chores and small splits?
I used to think an axe was super important, but as my modest skills have grown, and my knife collection has grown, I feel they’re less and less important. At least for lower impact, lighter travelling trips, and an addition to an axe for bigger trips, maybe in colder weather where bigger fuel is needed.
I’ve read a point about it may depend a bit on where you’re coming from, which you made also Mark. Eastern Canada can be pretty wet, where even small sticks can be a total pain in the butt to light. So even very small stuff may need splitting. This may not be a problem for others.
As for the flower, things should be protected when they’re in danger of disappearing.
you can just crack a 2 inch stick in half, if it's wet it will split halfway and you can peel it apart with your hands. this stuff is so silly
Pretty much my experience as well Jim. Thanks for commenting
Great video, Mark. I prefer batoning because it's more controlled and feels safer to me. I do like carrying a folding saw but I finding batonibg more therapeutic and relaxing
Right on. Thanks for commenting Jacky
Batoning is a marketing tool for selling those big knives you mentioned to the modern bushcrafter. I'm in the camp of no batoning as a Boy Scout from the early 70's. Axe and hatchet skills should be just as important as knife skills if one choses to use them. I've had zero accidents over several decades of using them responsibly in the field and at home. One of my first arguments of not batoning is protecting a primary survival tool that might last several generations when used as intended - a carver and slicer. It may take only one use being struck by a baton to expose a manufacturing flaw that would have otherwise never been an issue if used as intended. Having the skills and knowledge to build a fire without batoning seems far more important and valuable. I would consider those that have been sold on the idea that batoning is a necessity has been handicapped.
Thanks for commenting
Mark, I recall in scouting and camping as an adult one of the most nerve wracking things to teach someone is to safely split wood with an axe. Our Troop used to raise money selling firewood year round. Bow saws were always the go to for the newer and less experienced. Then often move into using a hammer and wedge. once they stopped breaking handles and hitting the ground and then themselves and only then did we teach them how to split with an axe. Battoning was something I learned later and have a very specific knife for an Ontario Spec plus alpha. With a 7 inch blade, weighing in at less then 9 ounces it is a very light and effective tool when you do not need the power or weight of a hatchet or axe. I hope this adds to the conversation.
Why is it nerve wracking? Proper use of an axe makes it very difficult to injure yourself, if you're nervous it means you're teaching incorrect skills
I appreciate your story. Thanks for commenting
@@beowulf_of_wall_st In teaching a young person to process firewood one does not start out with a skill that requires balance, form and practice to control a tool that can severely damage a limb. Like teaching a baby to walk before they run or letting go of a bike seat there is always that moment of pause before they fly.
@@BeOpen-mg7tq It doesn't require any of that ffs, I was 7 years old when I got my first hatchet. Two rules, you never swing a hatchet with your hand anywhere near the wood you're splitting and you make sure that you're positioned so if you miss that you hit the block or the ground, not your leg. It's really simple. Not all kids have the same maturity level and they might need to be a little older to follow the rules, but it's not about form and skill and all that stuff. safety comes from making mistakes safe, not in never making mistakes.
I guess you will always get both sides of the argument on this subject, and it is a very personal preference as what to use.
Personally I never batton with my knife, because from a young age I have been using a variety of axes to process wood and my knife is for skinning deer and other game during hunting and food prep.
When I am out in the bush, I carry a small axe and my knife, the axe has more power and control (in my opinion) and split wood faster.
Having said that, in southern Australia where I live, I hardly need to split wood as there is an abundance of dead wood in varying sizes from twigs to logs and burn very easily even in winter. Only on very wet days I have to split some wood with axe to get to the dry part and I do that with axe.
So, yes there is no right or wrong it is just personal preference, whichever best serves you.
Cheers from Down Under.
nearly every place in north america that people are camping has abundant firestarting material and dry deadfall. there is not a forest in canada that doesn't have birch or pine sitting there ready for you to make an inferno out of it at the slightest spark. 10 inch knives and giant silky saws is a youtube invention
Thanks for commenting
@@beowulf_of_wall_st Agree
I’m getting emotional right now even thinking about batoning
It can get to the best of us. Thanks for commenting
G'day Mark, like the coffee business concept, great name for it too, and reckon I'd go for mushrooms well before cheese ; )
25 years for that plant to propagate itself ......... and doesn't transplant, ....... and is native .......I'd be protecting it immediately !!!
RE: batoning .... (mostly with, but certainly across the grain in the absence of a saw), well, I'd turn it around and ask ................ why wouldn't cha want to ? ......... It basically gives you a froe, ....... without carrying a froe.
Fire and shelter building for a start, (not limited to, though especially in a survival situation).
Dry wood, kindling from one piece, fat wood, feathersticking and the like, perhaps a bow drill set, are the key ones, at least to get it up and going.
After that, whole logs vs splitting, or a combination, is debatable depending on moisture and the type of fire you want/need ...... and of course what is available may well have the last word ; )
Shelter building does benefit from half lap joints, mortise and tenon and such, as well as potentially splitting down roofing material.
And definitely for me ....... crafting bushes !!!.
Yep, spot on Mark, the right tool for the job !!! .... and furthermore, backup needs to be well considered too !!! keeping in mind you aint bring'n half your woodworking shop, or tool shed and on the other side of the equation, as much as enjoy my Ranger 78 and other folders, (I do have a Recon 1, Gator premo and a Buck 110 as solid backlock examples), I'm sure not keen on "relying" on those way out in the sticks ; )
I subscribe religiously to the 3 tool rule. i.e. a big fella of some description, I prefer to carry a machete type tool, (I favor a parang or seax), or a very large knife, (BK-9 size), on the trail, rather than an axe/hatchet, not so much from a safety perspective, I'm sure you're aware there a coupla ways to use smaller axes and hatchets with absolute confidence, (incidentally batoning is one of them), its more because of the greater versatility IMO, (and again enhanced by batoning), a robust 5-6 in belt knife and a folding saw. In the event of a loss or failure, any two of these and you're still well covered, but even one alone will work in both directions to get out of strife. In fairness, splitting with a saw alone, I'd make a start, (cracks, if any, aint always straight or aligned), and baton a wedge the rest of the way.
Cheers Duke.
P.S. Re; that black mark, I was think'n ..... if it grows, shrinks or otherwise changes over time, might narrow down the possibilities. Then again, ...... a sample analysis would be quicker ; )
Hi Duke. Do you spend a lot of time crafting bushes?😅 I agree with all you points. Turns out, the black mark is actually a lightening strike. Thanks for commenting
@@MarkYoungBushcraft Glad the mystery has been solved.
As it so happens, I have a hedge to prune today. Mind you I aint doin that with a knife ; )
Good video Mark, thanks for sharing YAH bless !
Thanks for commenting
The difference in power between using an axe/hatchet to split wood and using a knife is enormous. When batoning wood with a knife, the knife starts off every stroke in touch with the wood - you're applying power to the back of the knife using some sort of tool. With an axe, the power is generally applied by the movement of the axe to come into contact with the wood. The axe is also heavier than the knife, and that mass and movement mean the energy applied to the wood is enormously amplified - it's why splitting with an axe is so much more efficient. But that also means that without proper training and safety precautions, that axe can create much more devastating injuries if something goes wrong. So if you've got an axe and know and have trained how to use it, go for it. But a knife is almost certainly an easier skill to both teach someone new to the craft, and less dangerous even if something goes wrong.
Just my $.02.
a broken knife blade embedded in a branch that you're hitting with a baton in the middle of nowhere is very dangerous, you're right that an axe requires proper technique, but you shouldn't be out in the woods alone if you haven't bothered to learn to do it safely
Thanks for commenting
I believe it is a great skill to have and any “bush” knife that won’t hold up to battening is junk (excluding mora knives and the like) regardless of the price of the knife. The best tool is the one you have with you and anyone can lose their gear.
every knife, no matter how good, has the potential to break on your when you're batonning it because hardened knife steel is not meant for impact
Right on. Thanks for commenting
I was getting excited about the possibility of trying a new coffee ☕️, but mushrooms are a gout trigger and I have had gout attacks several times in the past 20 years, and I avoid trigger foods and dehydration, which, with a sedentary lifestyle, combine to make one susceptible to gout.
Now I will listen to the rest of your video. Thanks in advance. I batoned a lot of wood the past few years as I spent more time on the Appalachian Trail in my attempt to 1) finish it in sections (done) and, 2) To hike the entire length within a year (terminated by a knee injury). My new knee is taking forever to work like the original (since April 23rd). I took a walk on a local, graded, woods path a couple of days ago. It was slightly painful, but delightful at the same time.
I have been a saw and ax (or hatchet) guy most of my life, but enjoy batoning small pieces of wood for my lightweight, small wood stoves, and it's better to use dry chunks than damp, finger-thick bits of branches.
Sorry to hear you can't have mushrooms. Hope the knee heals up well. I can understand how much you must miss the trail. Thanks for commenting
I split wood to get to the dry centre of a large branch.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
what happened to just breaking it over your knee? this is so strange to me
Using a knife to split up to wrist thick branches not a problem for me, it annoys me more when you see people with light 4" blades saying they aren't goid chopper's. When chopping I find an axe or machete works best.😂👍🏻
I agree. Use the right tool for the job. Thanks for commenting
If I use a hatchet., (which I rarely do) I baton it, as I do with my knife. I am almost always alone in the wood´s and I can’t risk having an accident swinging an axe.
just hold the stick lengthwise so your hatchet hits it on the side, and bring them both down on your block together. no risk at all.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
Obviously there is no hard and fast rule to battoning or not battoning with a knife.
For me personally, I like a larger axe ( some will argue that). I feel with a smaller shorter axe, I am more prone to misuse and and injury. Therefore I use my larger axe to process wood down until it doesn’t become practical to process the particular piece of wood with the axe. I then batton with my knife if I need it processed down to a point beyond what my axe can handle.
Overall my thoughts are that if you want to baton with your knife go ahead. If you don’t want to-don’t. We all have different abilities, environments, and experiences that dictate our answers.
Great way of looking at it. Thanks for commenting
10:30 My first thought was, maybe someone had a fire there in winter on top of the snow.
It sure looks like someone tried to light it up. Thanks for commenting
I personally don’t own an axe. I have been a firewood merchant in the past and often used hydraulic splitters, mauls and axes. For my own use I’ve used a robust knife for splitting kindling. People that completely oppose the use of a knife for splitting, to me are a little narrow minded and have probably never tried it, they are so passionate on the subject they believe there should be a legal punishment for knife abuse. Me I do my own thing, they can do theirs. If they want to limit themselves that’s fine by me. 😊
Right on. Thanks for commenting
👍👍👍 .. a good discussion, thanks.
Watching some going at it .. batoning (or chopping wood .. 😱 "watch the legs, watch the shins!"), at times makes my toes curl 😳 😏.
Do I 'baton' .. yes, when necessary and then lightly, very lightly .. more often than not, a firm 'push' or tap on the blade with a gloved hand or another piece of wood. My knife is a Terävä Jääkäripuukko 140 Carbon, so there is plenty robust blade on hand.
Axe. I have a beautiful little Granfors Bruks Mini Hatchet that I love to play with .. although generally, it takes 3rd place behind my knife and folding saw. I never 'baton' my little beauty out of respect for it's eye. There are safer ways of splitting wood with it. Heavy 'chopping' .. nope. That's what a saw is for.
That said, the Swiss Forests have their own set of rules. Here, up North against the Rhine, conditions vary from very wet to extremely dry with a varying favourable 'window' inbetween.
Wet .. I harvest during the good season and then air / sun dry on my flat balcony for later use. Good forest management results in more than enough 'detritus' (purposefully) left behind for we 'scavengers' 😁. The wet conditions favour more, wood brought in than harvested on site.
Dry .. fire bans put that to rest. The Swiss have absolutely no sense of humour regarding .. eye-watering fines being the order of the day and at times, helicopters with thermal imaging being used to weed out offenders .. not to forget the 'Swiss Grannies' .. they see and report EVERYTHING! 😁.
Inbetween .. open fires nilly-willy in the forest are generally frowned upon (not completely banned though .. be responsible about it). Provision is made in the forests by authorities for dedicated open fire pits which can be found on local printed maps and google maps. Sometimes, even wood is provided to reduce ad-hoc 'foraging' of live wood in the absence of dead wood. Elsewhere, I use Folding / Hobo Stoves which themselves do not require 'logs'.
'Stupid' .. that's a matter of opinion. Each to their own and unless in a case of potential serious harm to others or the individual, best kept to oneself.
Thanks for the share .. much food for thought and debate .. take care ..
Thanks for commenting
Mark, the last time I looked up our fire ban it seemed to only focus on burning brush. I could find no mention of self contained wood stoves (Ikea, Emerlite, etc.) nor could I find out if the ban also covers alcohol fuel stoves both liquid and DragonCube styles. Any info on this?
People can do what they want with their knives, but I reserve batoning only for when everything else is wet. People should reserve their opinions until they need a fire after 3 days of heavy rain. :) I have done it with partial tang, plastic handle Mora knives, but recommend only full tang knives.
I can only speak for Nova Scotia and small wood stoves. I don't recall if you are from here. If so, shoot me an email and I will fill you in on the regulations. Thanks for commenting
To start a fire, splitting wood with a knife is the best.
Thanks for commenting
I don't understand why people get so riled up over something they can just choose for themselves...
In my view, it all depends on the materials at hand, what you're doing and what you are carrying. No one wants to tow an axe while on an 8 hour hike over a 4000+ footer. That's when I carry a cheap and light Mora and a tiny pocket saw.
If I'm building a large fire I will try to avoid any wood processing at all other than cutting to length and sometimes even let the fire cut wood pieces in half for me.
If I just want to cook with a twig stove and cannot find enough decent smalls (happens in popular areas) I will definitely use my knife and a pocket saw for processing.
If it's an emergency, I will use everything in my possession and all my knowledge to get the fire going short of using a rock or try to beat through knots... just common sense.
I have knives that I baby and some I picked up just for practicing and also figuring out what I like or dislike about a knife and what not to do.
Right on. Thanks for commenting
I lived in the Alaskan bush for over 30 years, I never buttoned with my precious knife. Now I live in the high desert of Oregon and batton all the time due to using a small wood gas stove.
I get a chuckle out of some of this bushcraft stuff. What I really find amusing is in last couple of years bushcraft channels turning into cooking shows. Ramsey needs to start practicing bushcraft. Lol!
No offense, really! I'm just more of a mountain man, or maybe nomadic hunter-gatherer.
Fun to watch, though...
well said. these guys will pack in a saw and a dutch oven and a cast iron frying pan and a cooler full of food and a 10 inch knife and say a hatchet is just too heavy
@beowulf_of_wall_st The Dutch oven part is funny as hell. I pack coffee pot and foil. I'm starting my channel this month, if I show cooking stuff, it will probably be wrapped in foil that was breathing less than an hour before. On the batoning, I made a purpose built 6" froe from a lawn mower blade. My plan is to keep real and the sh#t that really works in long term living.
I'm subbed here and enjoy the content, Kind of like watching Hogan's Heros.
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@MarkYoungBushcraft Hey Mark, do us an old school wrapped in foil in the ashes type of meal. Maybe some brats n peppers. It really is a forgotten art.
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@@luckylarry5112 Funny, I was just thinking about doing something like that. I will need to time it with out fire ban but I will place it on my list. Thanks for the suggestion
I prefer to use a knife to to split anything around 3-4" or less. Bigger stuff ill stick with an axe.
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Making something or survival situations are good. 2" on down. To me centers tend to be dryer for fire starting weather a bow drill or ferro rod.
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No one complains when someone makes shavings with an axe, so why should they complain when someone splits wood with a knife.
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Fires start best with small, thin pieces of wood. Agree? So, for fire starting wood, use a knife. Scrape, shave and baton and……. Fire! Axes are for splitting and chopping wood . Usually for storage. Isn’t life simple?
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Before I watch whatever suggestions or arguments you bring to the discussion... I personally would have to be in desperate straits to use a good knife in that way.
Even with "solid tang" into the handle and all that good stuff, for me it's just using the wrong tool for the wrong job. Worse than using a wrench as a hammer or a screwdriver as a chisel. Just no.
If I did ever see the potential for me needing to split wood in this way while out hiking, I would carry a dedicated blade with a thicker 'heel' I think it's called.
I have one in my kit, but of course on stupid YT you can't share pictures or links, so you'll have to use your imagination.
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I spent years in scouts making fires in all kinds of conditions, winter camping, etc. Never saw anyone hit a knife with a stick until UA-cam. There is literally never a need to do this for a fire. If you are batonning you are carrying a saw, if that's the case and you also refuse to carry a hatchet for some reason, and you really need to get at the center of some logs you can saw them halfway and break them in the y of a tree. Hardwood forests usually have birch bark or other highly flammable materials available and your time and energy is better spent gathering bark. The real question is why you are going into hardwood forests in poor weather without a proper splitting implement? The whole thing is silly. Giant knives are toys and there's nothing wrong with enjoying your toys, but don't act like you aren't playing with it.
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1st
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