I NEED A HERO. I'M HOLDING OUT FOR A HERO TO COME SUPPORT ME ON PATREON patreon.com/hellofutureme See, look how smooth that was? I even used the running joke. Many smooth. Much tact. ~ Tim
I believe the fantasy predetor for dragons are mythical birds called Rocs. In the books I have read, they were giant birds, usually a little smaller than the dragons, that traveled in packs. They would use their stupidly sharp claws and beak to kill dragons.
I can imagine that, actually. Huge beasts, unable to fly but well adapted to moving overland. They could also be the reason dragons can fly, hide on mountain peaks/in caves and possibly breathe fire (to fight bigger threats). Also can force them into solitary, for better hiding, or into a community, for warding off threats together. Then those bald monkeys with their technology showed up и всё заверте...
I know im a bit late but in the Warhammer fantasy the rival for Dragons are Carnosaurs basically Giant T-Rexs. They were so big and powerful that they could defeat dragons on land. There have been actual records of fights between carnosaurs and Dragons. The dragons power-ful beasts in their own right would usually fall when the carnosaur got hold of the dragons long neck and ripped it right off. In defence the dragons learned how to fly and breathe fire thats how lustria became sucha hospitabel place the skies ruled by ddragons and the land by carnosaurs
I recently read The Hobbit, so I can confidently say that Smaug does practice poetry. What is even more shocking is that he does so because dragon culture values poetry. They see communicating through double entendres and metaphors as a type of verbal combat. The scene is actually very similar to the game of riddles between Bilbo and Gollum. Also, in the book that is actually the second time Bilbo enters the cave, so Smaug was already expecting him.
Hahaha! True! It was the second time Bilbo had entered so Smaug definately was ready for him! It makes sense, after all, most of his answers and comments are so quick and snappy they sound almost too clever. It makes sense too why he could so quickly answer many of Bilbo's riddles. Interestingly, dragons in Tolkien's writings are often involved with riddles, trickery, fates, and curses. It makes sense that that may have become a part of their culture. After all, what else are they supposed to do in a cave all alone?
Well, technically, when dragons in Skyrim fight each other, they are having a very *heated* debate. Since they are talking in the dragon tongue. The Dragonborn is just powerful enough to join in on the arguement.
In relation to culture, here's a thought: in a world with multiple intelligent species, creatures could develop their sociability/intelligence towards interacting with creatures besides themselves. So, you could have dragons who don't have their own culture so much as each dragon adapting themselves to a place in relation to a culture of other intelligent beings around them. So you might get a "human" dragon and an "elven" dragon and an "orcish" dragon who are naturally external to, but have picked up a lot of how they think, behave and express themselves through, their interactions with those races. So you could have dragons that are "solitary" in that they don't interact much with other dragons, which makes some sense if every dragon needs a huge amount of space to get food/absorb magic/some other reason, but are still intelligent and cultured and have a variety of outlooks. Which might be interesting for presenting dragons as dual-natured, both intelligent but also bestial, as when they interact with each other they fall back more on instinctual behaviours.
I have a story like that though with me dragons are far more violent. They exist in a large empire that violently surpressed 85% of the population because they aren't dragons. Violence is a key part of everything from their architecture, to their culture, their philosophy and more.
The "intelligent toward people" / "bestial toward other dragons" idea is somewhat like the picture of the dragon Chrysophylax Dives in "Farmer Giles of Ham" by Tolkien. This dragon is just as talkative as Smaug, and bargains with Farmer Giles (much less imperiously than Smaug), but when he goes home at the end of the adventure and finds another dragon has moved into his lair, he kills and eats it.
One thing to consider for any world more then a thousand years old is that you might end up less division along racial lines. Even if they all started out separate. Unless someone is preventing them from mixing. Irl we see people travel, trade, and share ideas. If you have worldwide trade and empires rising and falling for many thousands of years you'd expect to see these lines blur as conquest and migration lead to spillover between regions. That's why in my fantasy settings I usually have people of all races in every faction. Although I make an exception when there's a significant difference in life cycle. For instance vampires might not be accepted most places as they feed off the life force of others in order to maintain their undeath.
"It's their speed, versatility and the threat they pose to *ad plays* Double Stuffed Oreo Cones at Sonic." Let it be known dragons be coming for those Oreo cones!
That's not too far off from something that was in a D&D campaign setting I made. It had a group of psudodragon/prismatic dragon/cat hybrids that all were such powerful sorcerers that they didn't really need an economy, and each was able to do as they pleased, so long as it didn't harm another.
But I think she changed it to that because my username and I have a dream of making dragons and I have told my friends and some have asked for one after I make them so I shall give one as well or a breading pair and my username is like this because the first dragon I make I will name flame and it's mate's name would be flare
Yes I have tho and don't blame my Grammer I'm still in elementary school even tho im in 5th grade I forget how to spell things but yes I have tried writing oh to let you know my teacher is an author her name is Diane Hartsig and I have her books you should look into them
The Earthsea novels has my favorite depiction of dragons. Wise, ancient, magical, verbal, and morally ambiguous. If a dragon would rather speak to you than eat you, than you were known as a Dragonlord
Dragon Hobby No.1: Age of Empires, Except they use real Humans/Dwarves/Elves/Kobolds and the "Game" usually Lasts a few Centuries Dragon Hobby No.2: "Hey Survaruil, What do you say we have a Shouting Match over that Tiny human City over there, Give them a show?".... a few hours later "Maybe we should have been more careful about Collateral Damage? I mean it USED to be such a Nice Tiny City..." Dragon Hobby No.3: Building Random Ass Dungeons to Stash Portions of their Hoard in... But Pesky Adventurers Keep Finding them... so here's the fun part, Build things to Keep them out! (Seriously how else would one Explain the Cockamamie nonsensical Room by Room Encounter and Sequential Traps that Fill D&D Games Dungeons?! I mean the name of the game is your first Hint at how these Things happened! :P) Dragon Hobby No.4: Sleep... it's not that they NEED Sleep, but it spends time... and Life is LONG waiting for something interesting to Happen Dragon Hobby No.5: "I wonder what would Happen if I Did something Minor to that Mortal Village?"... 50 years later... "How Was I Supposed to Know Diverting that River away from the Village would Cause them Die out? It's only a Tiny League Further than it was Before!" Dragon Hobby No.6: Debate... they can Live Long enough to actually See the END of some of the tougher Philosophical Questions, which seems like a Useful trait Dragon Hobby No.7: Kidnapping Princesses (Or Princes, not like they'll see much Difference between Two Fancy Tiny pink things)! Always some fun to be Had with this one, be it to encourage an Army/Hero to Gear up and come on by for a Tussle. or for Simple Debate with someone who isn't an other dragon and is also more likely to have an Education within the Mortal Races. Dragon Hobby No. 8: Tic-Tac-Toe, But you know, BIGGER Dragon Hobby No.9: Cake... That's it, just Cake Dragon Hobby No.10: Re-Cataloging their Hoard in Order of Acquisition, Alphabetical, Personal Attachment, Utility, How Comfortable it is to LAY on, Date and place of Origin, Feng Shui, Decor to Show off to potential Visitors and how Yummy it is...
I just noticed that the dragons in Fire Emblem are an interesting mix of these tropes. 1. The divine dragons are the equivalents of gods in the world. They are worshipped as protective deities, with some being more involved than others. For example, the goddess Mila provided wealth, protection, and crops for her people, but they grew lazy and when she disappeared they were thrown into chaos. 2. Despite being divine, almost all the dragons are destined to degrade over time, or become mindless beasts of immense powers. The dragons all respond differently to this. Some seek ways to prevent it, some embrace it and start causing destruction early, and some choose to end themselves to spare others. Despite Fire Emblem being a Japanese game, the dragons usually resemble western ones to fit with the setting, but have more “eastern sage” personalities, as intelligent beings that are either revered or feared. And with them becoming more like western beasts over time, the FE dragons are certainly interesting.
Dragons in Fire Emblem are very interesting. One particularly interesting thing is that they found a solution to the degeneration issue: sealing their power away in dragonstones and becoming Manaketes: humanoid creatures capable of transforming into dragons through their stones. But, because many dragons looked down on humanity, not every dragon went through with this. Medeus was crown prince of the Earth Dragons, and he was the only Earth Dragon who became a Manakete. He not only had to watch his kin all turn into western beasts and get sealed away for their own safety, he then had to watch humanity become the dominant species on Archanea and treat Manaketes like second-class citizens. Angered by this, he ended up forming the Dohlr Empire in an attempt to bring about Manakete Supremacy. Loptyr, another Earth Dragon, fled to a continent without Earth Dragons, and he sealed his power and mind in a book of dark magic to control the continent through a human host (ironic, since he saw humans as little more than insects to him).
@Gunja Fury It's intentionally never fully made clear, but it is explained as having been some sort of phenomenon that happened. Essentially, dragons were the dominant species in the continent of Archanea, then their birthrate suddenly plummeted, then they discovered that they were slowly degenerating into beasts, and they had to find a way to stop it. They found a way: becoming Manaketes: humanoid creatures that have their draconic form and abilities sealed away in dragonstones.
@Gunja Fury Largely because that little detail is largely irrelevant. The rule that the dragons degenerate over time and have to become Manaketes to avoid this is an establishing rule; "why" doesn't really need an answer; what matters more is how well the writers both stick to this rule, and hw well they explore what this rule would cause. And Fire Emblem, generally, does a good job at both of those latter two things. When you watch X-Men, do you go, "But why would genetic mutation cause people to have superpowers?" When you watch Star Wars, do you go, "Why are only certain individuals Force-Sensitive?"
Dragons are my favorite mythical creature- I would never get bored of them. I love the versatility in different cultures they have and what they mean to a stories people.
@@merrittanimation7721 there is this really cool guy, Prof. Corey Olsen, the Tolkien Professor, and he has a podcast/ UA-cam show where he goes through the Silmarillion with some friends and they discuss how they would adapt it. He also plays LOTRO and has a series where he traces the LotR books in the game and discusses the books page by page. ua-cam.com/channels/UxTFUltO4uXhEfqgI6GtIg.html ua-cam.com/play/PLasMbZ4s5vIUVaZafURX-tAZ1arKCVoNc.html
In my world, I compare dragons to whales. Really old and majestic animals that are highly intelligent, but sadly often hunted. Of course this comes with breath weapons and sometimes wings. They also, like whales, have different behaviours depending on their genus. So the smaller forest dragons live in groups to protect themselves. Whereas the titanic Mountain dragons live alone, hunting rarely. Ooh, another thing. My world has science, people have studied magical animals. My fantasy world has a paleontological record. And in that, we learned where dragons originated from. Dragons are related to early sea turtle ancestors, and split as some moved onto land, and into the trees when their sea environment became a swamp, and some stayed in the water, becoming dragon turtles. From then on they receded their shells into tough armour on their body, developed gliding, then flight, then an ice age cane and they were screwed, so they developed green, antifreeze blood. Which they can vaporize into a gas to make their breath weapon. Some can also ignite their breath, forming fire (All true dragons have a breathweapon, but not all have wings) Eastern dragons doo exist in my world, but they aren’t true dragons, they are sometimes believed to be related to them, but they are not true dragons. Primarily because of their body type, intelligence, and lack of a breath weapon. They speak their own language, and sorta have a culture. However their culture has been devastated by the humanoid races (especially humans, screw the humans), and their language includes sounds that the human body that cannot be produce. As such, many of them have grown sour of humanoids
Hold up u are parshly wrong I am a wings of fire fangirl to let u know the dragons in wings of fire actually call humans scavengers I am ashamed of you
Yes, there are, called either scavengers or reading monkeys, but 1) their role is so unsignificant (aside from the ones that killed a certain queen) and 2) most dragons consider them unintelligent. By "dragon only" I meant societies with only dragons, no "dragon riders" and stuff like that ;)
Another great dragon-protagonist series is Age of Fire written by E.E. Knight. The whole six book series is written from a dragon's point of view. It also explores the idea of a dragon society that over shadows other hominid societies.
The short answer is probably magic systems. Done well, they could shift the focus from how much to how well. How well do characters understand the magic system, how can they fulfill whatever conditions there are to using their power / make it harder for others, how can they apply their power in better ways, when and where and by what is which power affected how and so on. All of which can have personal, relational, societal and motivational implications and should keep power levels in some form of constant flux.
Look to places that did it right. Brandon Sanderson is another good one; he also breaks down magic into "soft magic" where the rules are not fully defined and "hard magic" where the rules are laid out and never change. The long and short of it is that the more the rules are explicitly laid out, the more an author can get away with using magic as a solution. Tolkein didn't define his magic, but it works because he didn't solve any of his characters problems with magic.
In my world an age dominated by dragons is what moved the young dwarf civilization to move underground and the elvish civilization to hide in the forests where their cities wouldn't be seen from the sky. because dragons.
Something me and my sister came up with when we tried to make a fantasy world was that the Dwarfs were extinct because of their habit of hording treasure would often attract dragons.
@@kinggoten Perhaps the humans have fortified bunker settlements which the dragons can't penetrate. Perhaps the humans are nomadic and simply give the dragons a wide berth, perhaps revering them as forces of nature to be appeased. Or maybe the humans simply died out or interbred with the elves and dwarves enough that they no longer exist as a species and a cultural entity. Each of these strategies would result in a good story, (The protagonist who is thrust out of their settlement and needs to come into their own to survive, the warrior who kills a dragon for the first time, the story of the last human alive) if enough thought is put on it.
I've been watching Shad for a lot longer than HFM, so I absolutely lost it, giggling, when he appeared. That setup was so perfect! His running gag fits just too well
Imagine an Australian dragon based on their wildlife tho...gigantic winged spider-snakes. Eek. Us kiwis would just have really birdy ones with maybe a hint of fish or bat, much nicer thought!
This was a great video Tim and thanks for teaching us all of these things when we want to write a story on them. I personally like to base a dragons habitat and other needs based on its design because you can't really have dragons that would fit more in the sky living in the ocean there wings would have to be shorter and there body's more streamlined. Really looking forward to learning from part 2 of this video I tend to think about different dragon designs all the time but I am never quite sure how to put them in a story.
Well son come to me I am going to make dragons in the future so I know the design I want for the aka they will be partly based after a wings of fire dragon aka u have almost all those books lol but they will be partly based off of the rainwings and sir/ma'am I would like to know disigns of dragons from u
I too plan on writing a story. I've come up with an interesting way for magic to work: magic particles, called Thaums, are constantly generated inside certain types of stars, and radiate out onto nearby planets. On surface they start interfeting with thoughts and emotions of intelligent beings. They mostly work like 'standard' magic, but one thing that makes them stand out is that they also react to hopes, prayers and all kinds of superstitions. If a loads of people believe in dragons, thaums will create dragons. If an entire nation prays to a god, a god will be created. Back to the topic of dragons: Because existance of dragons breaks laws of physics [fire-breathing, mass/lift ratio, etc.], said laws have to be constantly overriden by Thaums. If 100% of Thaums in a certain area is depleted, dragons will slowly begin to die and disitegrate. This forces them to be constantly moving, and keep as far as possible of each other unless they have to meet during mating season and such. What do you think?
@@imperialguardsman135 Feels like a combination between Discworld and Numenera. It sounds like "created" dragons would conform to the dominant beliefs of dragons at the time. It would be a fascinating way to track cultural progress.
You never fail to amaze me in the depth and passion you have for everything writing creative and nerdy. You are truly a gift thank you for the videos you make, they always brighten my day.
The Red Dragon from Welsh Mythology who became the symbol of our country is a reflection of good and bad things. He's first mentioned when many great plagues were sweeping the country, from no one being able to keep their secrets, to earthquakes. He was fighting a white dragon, which caused many of the problems and with some magic, he and the white dragon were sealed in chests and berried deep into a mountain in the country. But many years later, a Welsh king is under threat and retreats into the mountains to create a fort to protect himself. But every day it crumbles, so the King tries to find out what's happening. A boy tells the King of the dragons under the mountain and the King digs them out. The White and Red Dragons fought and the White Dragon flew away, injured. The Red Dragon was said to symbolize the Welsh and the White Dragon the invaders after the King. In a book I'm writing, I hope to reflect this idea of Dragons and many other Welsh Mythological creatures being good and bad. You mentioning coal helped me remember an important detail of my world building concerning one of my characters, that I'm going to make a point in their history. Thanks for the idea and if you do research the Welsh Dragon (or any other Welsh myths) just ask me, it's my favorite thing to look up.
The red dragon god DEWI, isn't first mentioned there, and is WAY older than that story. Plus, almost everyone knows this story. Alot of the good modern dragons draw from him, so I mean, I don't think he needs a mention.
Chris Jason I didn’t like him at first but on his merits you have to respect him and I’m sure that’s how he keeps winning people over. Lot of charisma and self made in every regard. I’m sure the other greats relate to him a lot.
Eragon's may be somewhat more complicated, because there's some difference between wild dragons and ones bonded with a Rider. They're probably a decent example of how to do dragons, though. Kinda surprised Eragon wasn't really mentioned in this video, though maybe more in the second part.
@@shadowblade5656 Pernese Dragons are probably more influential than Eragon though (and this not to knock the books), and they were not mentioned either.
@@glenbe4026 Sure Pern has had more influence on literature as a whole, but it's worldbuilding is kind of a trash fire. Also Pern is firmly in Science Fiction and he seems to be prinarily discussing Fantasy.
I love that you mentioned Temeraire because the way they are treated: equals and philosophers in the east and warmachines in the west, and Temeraire in the middle of that, was what attracts me the most to the series!
I got so many ideas on how to incorporate dragons into my story, you have no idea how grateful I am! My long-dead inspiration has partially revived, now I just need the part two of this video XD
No mention of Anne McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern :( I know it's old but it's my favorite and quite possibly my first experience with dragons, I think this video puts them in between a western thinker and a western beast. Although I'm not sure about how to dissect the series in relation to the other points. PS As a kid I really wanted a Fire Lizard as a pet. (still, do actually)
frank hatter Pern’s dragons started as tiny things. But when humans colonized Pern, and first Thread-fall was so devastating, we bred the tiny dragons into larger & larger beasts. Downside is they also became more susceptible to the thread themselves even though they had fire to burn the thread as it fell. So ecologically, they didn’t really exist until humans created them, and their relationship with humans was either as horses or later kinda like peers. At least in the books I read of the series... there were a lot more later.
I have read as many of these as I could get my hands on (hint, it was many) and I absolutely agree - they're definitely closer to a Western Thinker, but the fact that they are genetically engineered to be of similar intelligence to a human and of sufficient size to carry them during Threadfall means that their origins are in beasts of no more ability to reason than your average cat. However, the original fire lizards (also agree, I want, like, 6) are not entirely beastly since we see that they can be friendly, although at least part of that is due to Imprinting. I think their socio-political effects on the world are explored best in the later books in the series, while their abilities develop and change depending on the development of the series - without spoilers, the dragons have to use an external resource to create fire, and that takes humans to mine and provide (there's an entire book on its mining and at one point, apparent scarcity). Overall though, their nature is to be guardians, a defensive fiery shield against the terror of Thread, and to select the leading humans when they fly to mate. On the other end of that scale, I also adore the swamp dragons from Terry Pratchett's Discworld - their defensive mechanism is to explode when threatened, thus eliminating the predator/threat. Obviously this only works so well, so they're an endangered species!
I highly recommend that you read Niklas Krog's "The Freedom Wars" trilogy (Trilogin om Frihetskrigen), if you haven't already. That series is a fascinating take on world building, empires, and the use of fantasy elements. Krog also manages an awesome prequel in the book "The War of the Great Peace" (Den Stora Fredens Krig). On the topic of dragon culture, I ALWAYS bawl my eyes out at the end of the main story line in Skyrim. The grief shown by the dragons is heart breaking.
I haven't read the Temeraire series in so long. It was really nostaligic to see you mention it. I honestly loved it so much especially as I tend to shy away from war stories.
Another excellent video. This kind of explanation of how World building can be improved has helped me greatly both in my writing and in my Dungeons and Dragons campaigns. thank you.
A really original take on dragons is in a webtoon called "Abide in the Wind," (which no one freaking knows about). They're super powerful and devine, metaphysical creator type creatures, but don't posess the choatic intelligence of humans and are therefore highly suseptible to corruption once intelligent life evolves on a planet they've created. They barely seem to have consciousness until they choose someone to safeguard their power and lifeforce in their bodies. It's super cool.
4:24 Well, actually there are types of "dragons" (Long) associated with all elements of Chinese philosophy. There is the Azure Dragon (Qinglong), which is associated with Wood (and was the official symbol of the Qing dynasty); the Yellow Dragon (Huanglong), which is associated with Earth; the Black Dragon (Heilong), which is associated with water; the Red Dragon (Chilong), which is associated with Fire; and lastly the White Dragon (Báilong), associated with metal.
If there were dragons on Roshar, I imagine it would go something like this: Azir: *Hushed conversations about the scholarly institutions of this new beast* Shinovar: Keep them away from the rocks! Jah Keved: The diagram said *nothing* about this. Thaylenah: Create submarines to keep safe from the fire. Alethkar: ATTACK!!!!
5:05 I CLAPPED WOOT. I absolutely LOVE that book series! So good! They have wild beast dragons and also the west thinker dragons, and the way they implement how dragons live together with humans (or not) throughout the world is AMAZINGLY detailed
When u mentioned Wings of Fire and showed the 6th book (Moon rising) I got so excited and impatient to read it XD I'm on The Dark Secret btw (Book 4) Also great video, Tim! Edit: 3 years passed so quickly wow, but still have to read arc 3 lol
16:19 And Age of Fire reference?! I love that series. I found its perspective of a dragon MC very interesting. Though the Lavadome isn't mentioned until book 3 and beyond.
I started watching, and thought, "gosh, wouldn't this be a good spot for that Shad line 'what about dragons'" and lo and behold, my wish was granted! Perfection.
I always loved Naomi Novik's dragonworld. Everything seemed to be so well thought out and planned, it was just perfect. And the social criticism she brought into it amazed me. Although Temeraire was clearly intelligent and had his own personality, the government only accepted the rights of dragons, when they experienced France's military strength. By not using the dragons as mere tools, but recognizing them as intelligent beings who deserve respect, payment, a voice in the parliament, Bonaparte had the upper hand in the war for quite some time. What I especially liked, was the part of the story where Temeraire went to China and learned how the asian culture treated dragons, which brought him to the plan and strong will of bringing that better treatment and high respect for dragons home to his english friends. Okay, I'll stop now... No one I know even heard of those books and I never get to geek out about them :D But I'll stop now before it gets out of hand :D
I will second Modellflug and steyn in praising the Temeraire books and hope this youtube series at least mentions it in passing. Really great series that offers a very compelling and interesting take on real historical events altered by the presence of dragons.
I saw this in my notifications a week ago. Didn't watch it right away but today I watched the cycle of war and now this. After barely an hour you've earned a sub my friend. Seeing all of these different franchise callbacks in this video especially excited me. Like With Legend of Spyro. Seeing my childhood trilogy being constantly associated here is pure awesome~
One kind of dragon archetype that I have seen a couple of times is where dragons are kind of "third force" in the battle between heaven and hell kind of representing the material world (where Gods represent heaven and demons represent hell) and in these chases they tend to be very wise and powerful but ultimately mostly aloof or hostile to some degree to the humans. Building into the world kind of three way conflict between Gods with humans, Demons with monsters and Dragons with animals or some other force.
I did something like this for my D&D setting. The Dragons were the first intelligent species, and so they created servitor races (lizard people, gargoyles, naga, etc.) and an empire to serve their needs. They also shaped the primal magical energies, and created the magic system everyone used. During their experiments, they opened a portal to the infernal realms, and allowed a flood of Demons into their world, who began killing and eating everything they saw. Things went badly, until the Angels showed up and started nuking the Demons to ash, along with the cities they were invading. This leveled the saurian empire, and left billions homeless. Finally, a troupe of Dragons managed to make it to the portal and close it, and the Angels got to work blasting the Demons into oblivion. With the Demons gone, but their empire destroyed, and many of their servants extinct, they forced the Angels to sign "the compact" a document that assured the greater forces wouldn't enter the world without their consent. Most of their servants (the few that survived) fled into the wilds and became barbarians. The Dragons have been brooding ever since, and are more than a little uptight.
Neat I also did a tree way thing in one of my worlds aswell, but with out dragons... It has: ⚪天 (heaven) 🔴人 (man) ⚫土 (earth) ...both Heaven & Earth are Divine & Spiritual. Heaven is associated with the primordial Father, & Earth is associated with the primordial Mother. (kinda like ancient greek Gaia & Ouranos)
![On Writing: Dragons! [ Game of Thrones l Eragon l How to Train Your Dragon l Avatar ] PART 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G4RL3u3IB5E/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Dragons! [ Game of Thrones l Eragon l How to Train Your Dragon l Avatar ] PART 2](/img/tr.png)
![On Worldbuilding: How an Empire Falls? [ Game of Thrones l Avatar l Byzantine ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jAKfs0TaOR4/mqdefault.jpg)
I NEED A HERO. I'M HOLDING OUT FOR A HERO TO COME SUPPORT ME ON PATREON patreon.com/hellofutureme See, look how smooth that was? I even used the running joke. Many smooth. Much tact.
~ Tim
Hello Future Me when is dragon prince season 2 review coming
@@GeneMachine809 its out already you just can't see it yet
Much tact indeed XD
Hello Future Me what's your discord?
Dammit Tim, why the references to Shrek 2 also what about Wyvrens they are technically dragons but smaller and are like scavengers
You know despair when you see a balrog riding a freaking Dragon!
If i walked to school and saw that. I whould lose al hope for survival.
You know hilarity when you see an ant riding a freaking caterpillar!
@@RegulusFlaminiusIndicus lol
@@deanholderde5959
....
go on, I didn't say you could stop the story!
Indeed
"Why are all my friends dead"
*A WIZARD DID IT*
"I didn't ask how big the room was, I said 'I CAST FIREBALL'!"
"Dragons could be prey for something even bigger."
Me: hoW ABOUT WE NOT?
That's absolutely terrifying. Yikes.
What? Never had to deal with kaiju before?
@@Biochemitra Yikes.
I believe the fantasy predetor for dragons are mythical birds called Rocs. In the books I have read, they were giant birds, usually a little smaller than the dragons, that traveled in packs. They would use their stupidly sharp claws and beak to kill dragons.
I can imagine that, actually. Huge beasts, unable to fly but well adapted to moving overland. They could also be the reason dragons can fly, hide on mountain peaks/in caves and possibly breathe fire (to fight bigger threats). Also can force them into solitary, for better hiding, or into a community, for warding off threats together. Then those bald monkeys with their technology showed up и всё заверте...
I know im a bit late but in the Warhammer fantasy the rival for Dragons are Carnosaurs basically Giant T-Rexs. They were so big and powerful that they could defeat dragons on land. There have been actual records of fights between carnosaurs and Dragons. The dragons power-ful beasts in their own right would usually fall when the carnosaur got hold of the dragons long neck and ripped it right off. In defence the dragons learned how to fly and breathe fire thats how lustria became sucha hospitabel place the skies ruled by ddragons and the land by carnosaurs
No one:
Shadiversity: what about dragons?
Me: agreed
I recently read The Hobbit, so I can confidently say that Smaug does practice poetry. What is even more shocking is that he does so because dragon culture values poetry. They see communicating through double entendres and metaphors as a type of verbal combat. The scene is actually very similar to the game of riddles between Bilbo and Gollum.
Also, in the book that is actually the second time Bilbo enters the cave, so Smaug was already expecting him.
Hahaha! True! It was the second time Bilbo had entered so Smaug definately was ready for him! It makes sense, after all, most of his answers and comments are so quick and snappy they sound almost too clever. It makes sense too why he could so quickly answer many of Bilbo's riddles.
Interestingly, dragons in Tolkien's writings are often involved with riddles, trickery, fates, and curses. It makes sense that that may have become a part of their culture. After all, what else are they supposed to do in a cave all alone?
Which is better to be born a skilled writer or to overcome your cliche writing through hellofutureme - Parthannax
Why not both?
Good reference.
no one is born that skilled
@@kaylahouvenagle3866 not necessarily true being born with skills is possible so someone could be
@@fountainchristain Oh my god this comment is a Skyrim reference.
Great, now I want Paarthurnax and Smaug to engage in a philosophical debate.
somebody needs to make this a thing
Well, technically, when dragons in Skyrim fight each other, they are having a very *heated* debate. Since they are talking in the dragon tongue. The Dragonborn is just powerful enough to join in on the arguement.
I want to see Smaug and Alduin having an argument
@@steffy9575 what about that one time when I was scared of a dragon and ran into a town and hid while the guards brought the wyrm low
Magnus Anderson they were probably talking about the US politics then.
"I'm great at writing concisely." *sarcasm intensifies*
Lol 😂😂 😂😂 😂
Mate. Every writer thinks they're bad at writing, even if they write like JK Rowling
@@Eclipse-mf6hc Is Rowling a good writer? From what I've seen she's no stylist. I suppose it depends what you care about in a writer.
Not as bad as Shad
@@qwertyTRiG i mean... shes not horrible??? lmao the trend to hate on any mainstream author is weird, especially when theyre worth a billion dollars
"Dragons... who rarely interact with one another, except to sink their teeth, or something else into them"
Smooth, nearly slipped by me.
Yes
*eyes blinking, a look of confusion* "What ever are you talking about?" *A blank innocence stare*
The lack of wrinkles tend to have ideas slide off
All I could think about were D&D 3E half-dragons.
In relation to culture, here's a thought: in a world with multiple intelligent species, creatures could develop their sociability/intelligence towards interacting with creatures besides themselves. So, you could have dragons who don't have their own culture so much as each dragon adapting themselves to a place in relation to a culture of other intelligent beings around them. So you might get a "human" dragon and an "elven" dragon and an "orcish" dragon who are naturally external to, but have picked up a lot of how they think, behave and express themselves through, their interactions with those races.
So you could have dragons that are "solitary" in that they don't interact much with other dragons, which makes some sense if every dragon needs a huge amount of space to get food/absorb magic/some other reason, but are still intelligent and cultured and have a variety of outlooks. Which might be interesting for presenting dragons as dual-natured, both intelligent but also bestial, as when they interact with each other they fall back more on instinctual behaviours.
Ooh, I like this idea.
I have a story like that though with me dragons are far more violent. They exist in a large empire that violently surpressed 85% of the population because they aren't dragons. Violence is a key part of everything from their architecture, to their culture, their philosophy and more.
Oooh, mind if I steal that?
The "intelligent toward people" / "bestial toward other dragons" idea is somewhat like the picture of the dragon Chrysophylax Dives in "Farmer Giles of Ham" by Tolkien. This dragon is just as talkative as Smaug, and bargains with Farmer Giles (much less imperiously than Smaug), but when he goes home at the end of the adventure and finds another dragon has moved into his lair, he kills and eats it.
One thing to consider for any world more then a thousand years old is that you might end up less division along racial lines. Even if they all started out separate. Unless someone is preventing them from mixing. Irl we see people travel, trade, and share ideas. If you have worldwide trade and empires rising and falling for many thousands of years you'd expect to see these lines blur as conquest and migration lead to spillover between regions.
That's why in my fantasy settings I usually have people of all races in every faction. Although I make an exception when there's a significant difference in life cycle. For instance vampires might not be accepted most places as they feed off the life force of others in order to maintain their undeath.
Shadiversity is really getting around recently
He's becoming powerful... he's becoming... DANGEROUS
he is everywhere, I love it
@@b44442 He may be, but what about dragons?
@@halismeful Your reply needs more likes, what is this?!?!
Everyone is scared if they reject him he’ll end them rightly
“They’re likely to develop philosophies, like-“
Ad: “WhEn ReAliTy StArs GeT TogETheR”
Dragon celebrities?
Hey man that's a very legitimate question.
"It's their speed, versatility and the threat they pose to *ad plays* Double Stuffed Oreo Cones at Sonic." Let it be known dragons be coming for those Oreo cones!
yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes.
I'm struggling with the Dragonborn fighting Thomas the Tank engine. CHOO CHOO XD
He was the dragon slayer, but he couldn't match the tank engine
@@lukec2004
its gives me PTSD , this face , pure hatred and evilness ..................
That wasn't Thomas. If I'm not mistaken, that one was James.
Communist Dragons. COMMUNIST DRAGONS. That is all.
*USSR national anthem intensifies*
Finally, being burn equaly it's the right way.
Burn the bourgeois
this honestly needs to be a thing
That's not too far off from something that was in a D&D campaign setting I made. It had a group of psudodragon/prismatic dragon/cat hybrids that all were such powerful sorcerers that they didn't really need an economy, and each was able to do as they pleased, so long as it didn't harm another.
WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS! WE CAN'T FORGET THE DRAGONS PEOPLE! DRAGONS HAVE FEELINGS TOO!
Agreed times 1000 I am sure my mithical spirit animal is a dragon
@@SenneWMichiels well my friend changed her username to flame the dragon also I shall sudscride to u
But I think she changed it to that because my username and I have a dream of making dragons and I have told my friends and some have asked for one after I make them so I shall give one as well or a breading pair and my username is like this because the first dragon I make I will name flame and it's mate's name would be flare
Yes I have tho and don't blame my Grammer I'm still in elementary school even tho im in 5th grade I forget how to spell things but yes I have tried writing oh to let you know my teacher is an author her name is Diane Hartsig and I have her books you should look into them
@@haileytheflamedragon2990 The what about dragons thing was a reference to the other guy's channel.
SUDDEN MACHICOLATIONS.
MACHICOLATIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
but what about dragons
shad really loves machicolations huh?
did Shad send you? His scouts are everywhere!
But what about machicolated dragons
The Earthsea novels has my favorite depiction of dragons. Wise, ancient, magical, verbal, and morally ambiguous. If a dragon would rather speak to you than eat you, than you were known as a Dragonlord
16:05 "...lone dragons who hoard treasure and rarely interact with one another except to sink their teeth--or something else--into them."
Oh my...
EinSophistry 😏
This completely went over my head.
Murder or Sex?
How to even add dragons to your urban fantasy:
SCP-1762. One of the saddest and best stories I have ever read.
Here ̶b̶e̶ were
Dragons
@@charlieward5439 fucking PTSD and depression that gave me
Dragon Hobby No.1: Age of Empires, Except they use real Humans/Dwarves/Elves/Kobolds and the "Game" usually Lasts a few Centuries
Dragon Hobby No.2: "Hey Survaruil, What do you say we have a Shouting Match over that Tiny human City over there, Give them a show?".... a few hours later "Maybe we should have been more careful about Collateral Damage? I mean it USED to be such a Nice Tiny City..."
Dragon Hobby No.3: Building Random Ass Dungeons to Stash Portions of their Hoard in... But Pesky Adventurers Keep Finding them... so here's the fun part, Build things to Keep them out! (Seriously how else would one Explain the Cockamamie nonsensical Room by Room Encounter and Sequential Traps that Fill D&D Games Dungeons?! I mean the name of the game is your first Hint at how these Things happened! :P)
Dragon Hobby No.4: Sleep... it's not that they NEED Sleep, but it spends time... and Life is LONG waiting for something interesting to Happen
Dragon Hobby No.5: "I wonder what would Happen if I Did something Minor to that Mortal Village?"... 50 years later... "How Was I Supposed to Know Diverting that River away from the Village would Cause them Die out? It's only a Tiny League Further than it was Before!"
Dragon Hobby No.6: Debate... they can Live Long enough to actually See the END of some of the tougher Philosophical Questions, which seems like a Useful trait
Dragon Hobby No.7: Kidnapping Princesses (Or Princes, not like they'll see much Difference between Two Fancy Tiny pink things)! Always some fun to be Had with this one, be it to encourage an Army/Hero to Gear up and come on by for a Tussle. or for Simple Debate with someone who isn't an other dragon and is also more likely to have an Education within the Mortal Races.
Dragon Hobby No. 8: Tic-Tac-Toe, But you know, BIGGER
Dragon Hobby No.9: Cake... That's it, just Cake
Dragon Hobby No.10: Re-Cataloging their Hoard in Order of Acquisition, Alphabetical, Personal Attachment, Utility, How Comfortable it is to LAY on, Date and place of Origin, Feng Shui, Decor to Show off to potential Visitors and how Yummy it is...
OMG this comment is epic and funny and just awesome!
Niiice
Ahahaha 😂
Best comment. So true.
Also practicing poetry and riddles for the sneaky type of heroes/adventurers. It's like philosophical debate but it rhymes.
As a dragon enthusiast and writer, this video makes me immensely happy, seeing this level of thoroughness.
3:00 "Hercules~…"
*"Honey, you mean HUNKules!"*
Kizul Emeraldfire zero to hero!
The Greek version is Heracles
I always cry at the dragon dance episode. From the very first time I watched it as a child it just tugs my heartstrings for idk what reason.
Don't go to the comment section. Thar be dragons
you son of a fucking bi-
Well to bad I am half dragon mate so see ya son I gotta kindom of dragons to run
@@mrhalfwit972 meep watch your language young readers here or am I the only young reader
Better dragons than Mr. X. That bald guy keeps giving it to me... :(
There are dragons here too.
I just noticed that the dragons in Fire Emblem are an interesting mix of these tropes.
1. The divine dragons are the equivalents of gods in the world. They are worshipped as protective deities, with some being more involved than others. For example, the goddess Mila provided wealth, protection, and crops for her people, but they grew lazy and when she disappeared they were thrown into chaos.
2. Despite being divine, almost all the dragons are destined to degrade over time, or become mindless beasts of immense powers. The dragons all respond differently to this. Some seek ways to prevent it, some embrace it and start causing destruction early, and some choose to end themselves to spare others.
Despite Fire Emblem being a Japanese game, the dragons usually resemble western ones to fit with the setting, but have more “eastern sage” personalities, as intelligent beings that are either revered or feared. And with them becoming more like western beasts over time, the FE dragons are certainly interesting.
Dragons in Fire Emblem are very interesting. One particularly interesting thing is that they found a solution to the degeneration issue: sealing their power away in dragonstones and becoming Manaketes: humanoid creatures capable of transforming into dragons through their stones. But, because many dragons looked down on humanity, not every dragon went through with this.
Medeus was crown prince of the Earth Dragons, and he was the only Earth Dragon who became a Manakete. He not only had to watch his kin all turn into western beasts and get sealed away for their own safety, he then had to watch humanity become the dominant species on Archanea and treat Manaketes like second-class citizens. Angered by this, he ended up forming the Dohlr Empire in an attempt to bring about Manakete Supremacy.
Loptyr, another Earth Dragon, fled to a continent without Earth Dragons, and he sealed his power and mind in a book of dark magic to control the continent through a human host (ironic, since he saw humans as little more than insects to him).
"all dragons are destined to degrade over time"
Ok, but why tho?
@Gunja Fury It's intentionally never fully made clear, but it is explained as having been some sort of phenomenon that happened. Essentially, dragons were the dominant species in the continent of Archanea, then their birthrate suddenly plummeted, then they discovered that they were slowly degenerating into beasts, and they had to find a way to stop it. They found a way: becoming Manaketes: humanoid creatures that have their draconic form and abilities sealed away in dragonstones.
@@matthewmuir8884
"intentionally never fully made clear"
Ok, but why???
@Gunja Fury Largely because that little detail is largely irrelevant. The rule that the dragons degenerate over time and have to become Manaketes to avoid this is an establishing rule; "why" doesn't really need an answer; what matters more is how well the writers both stick to this rule, and hw well they explore what this rule would cause. And Fire Emblem, generally, does a good job at both of those latter two things.
When you watch X-Men, do you go, "But why would genetic mutation cause people to have superpowers?" When you watch Star Wars, do you go, "Why are only certain individuals Force-Sensitive?"
Dragons are my favorite mythical creature- I would never get bored of them. I love the versatility in different cultures they have and what they mean to a stories people.
"It can be negotiated with."
"Never make a deal with a dragon" , Shadowrun
Geek the mage first
Can and should are very different things.
6:40 Tolkien! What did you do? You've made a metal singularity. Dear god, that is too cool
He knew what we want long before we ever did. There's a reason why so much fantasy is based on his works. Why reinvent the wheel?
Good thing no one has adapted the Silmarillion yet. Who knows what would happen if they were ever put to film.
@@merrittanimation7721 there is this really cool guy, Prof. Corey Olsen, the Tolkien Professor, and he has a podcast/ UA-cam show where he goes through the Silmarillion with some friends and they discuss how they would adapt it. He also plays LOTRO and has a series where he traces the LotR books in the game and discusses the books page by page.
ua-cam.com/channels/UxTFUltO4uXhEfqgI6GtIg.html
ua-cam.com/play/PLasMbZ4s5vIUVaZafURX-tAZ1arKCVoNc.html
What the, I left your vid Shad because I wanted to watch something else, and you come back. Niiiice.
OMG ME TOO!!
same
@@sblower9410 yours versus mine 😂
same xD
The Attack On Titan music made me wheeze
Lol Same!!! :)
*_GLORIOUS_*
AigneTheAnimator EVERYTIME!
BALWROGS RIDIND DRAGONS EMERGES
Right??
Physically recoiled when Shadiversity glitched in
In my world, I compare dragons to whales. Really old and majestic animals that are highly intelligent, but sadly often hunted.
Of course this comes with breath weapons and sometimes wings. They also, like whales, have different behaviours depending on their genus. So the smaller forest dragons live in groups to protect themselves. Whereas the titanic Mountain dragons live alone, hunting rarely. Ooh, another thing. My world has science, people have studied magical animals. My fantasy world has a paleontological record. And in that, we learned where dragons originated from. Dragons are related to early sea turtle ancestors, and split as some moved onto land, and into the trees when their sea environment became a swamp, and some stayed in the water, becoming dragon turtles. From then on they receded their shells into tough armour on their body, developed gliding, then flight, then an ice age cane and they were screwed, so they developed green, antifreeze blood. Which they can vaporize into a gas to make their breath weapon. Some can also ignite their breath, forming fire
(All true dragons have a breathweapon, but not all have wings)
Eastern dragons doo exist in my world, but they aren’t true dragons, they are sometimes believed to be related to them, but they are not true dragons. Primarily because of their body type, intelligence, and lack of a breath weapon. They speak their own language, and sorta have a culture. However their culture has been devastated by the humanoid races (especially humans, screw the humans), and their language includes sounds that the human body that cannot be produce. As such, many of them have grown sour of humanoids
For a "dragon protagonist" I really hope you'll dive deeper into Wings of Fire and the idea of the dragon-only worlds, where humans take a back seat
Hold up u are parshly wrong I am a wings of fire fangirl to let u know the dragons in wings of fire actually call humans scavengers I am ashamed of you
Yes, there are, called either scavengers or reading monkeys, but 1) their role is so unsignificant (aside from the ones that killed a certain queen) and 2) most dragons consider them unintelligent. By "dragon only" I meant societies with only dragons, no "dragon riders" and stuff like that ;)
Hailey the Flame dragon he did say back seat didn’t he?
Another great dragon-protagonist series is Age of Fire written by E.E. Knight. The whole six book series is written from a dragon's point of view. It also explores the idea of a dragon society that over shadows other hominid societies.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE
Please make a video on de-escalating character abilities so that a story isnt bloated with complex interaction and/or massive power creep
Ooh, good idea. I'd totally watch that.
The short answer is probably magic systems. Done well, they could shift the focus from how much to how well.
How well do characters understand the magic system, how can they fulfill whatever conditions there are to using their power / make it harder for others, how can they apply their power in better ways, when and where and by what is which power affected how and so on.
All of which can have personal, relational, societal and motivational implications and should keep power levels in some form of constant flux.
I second this
@@lars0me I'd suggest Hunter x Hunter' s Nen system as an example.
Look to places that did it right. Brandon Sanderson is another good one; he also breaks down magic into "soft magic" where the rules are not fully defined and "hard magic" where the rules are laid out and never change.
The long and short of it is that the more the rules are explicitly laid out, the more an author can get away with using magic as a solution. Tolkein didn't define his magic, but it works because he didn't solve any of his characters problems with magic.
"How do you write an original dragon story?"
I mean, there's Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. It's certainly original! :D
Dragons who were once human (or alien). Wouldn't you want to spend a few lifetimes as a dragon if you could?
“MONOLITHIC FIRE-BREATHING DEATH LIZARDS” gets me every. Damn. Time.
I’m sure these are a tooooonnnn of work, man, but thank you so much for making them!
In my world an age dominated by dragons is what moved the young dwarf civilization to move underground and the elvish civilization to hide in the forests where their cities wouldn't be seen from the sky. because dragons.
Something me and my sister came up with when we tried to make a fantasy world was that the Dwarfs were extinct because of their habit of hording treasure would often attract dragons.
Do the dragons breath fire in your world? If so, do the trees of those forests not burn like most others?
Nerd Herd the dragon would have to find the city first I guess, would work as a great scene in a story where the city is found and the forest scorched
+Phisteen and the humans are to dumb? so they build cities out in the open and have to fight the dragons?
@@kinggoten Perhaps the humans have fortified bunker settlements which the dragons can't penetrate. Perhaps the humans are nomadic and simply give the dragons a wide berth, perhaps revering them as forces of nature to be appeased. Or maybe the humans simply died out or interbred with the elves and dwarves enough that they no longer exist as a species and a cultural entity. Each of these strategies would result in a good story, (The protagonist who is thrust out of their settlement and needs to come into their own to survive, the warrior who kills a dragon for the first time, the story of the last human alive) if enough thought is put on it.
I've been watching Shad for a lot longer than HFM, so I absolutely lost it, giggling, when he appeared. That setup was so perfect! His running gag fits just too well
Shad has infiltrated every channel I'm subscribed to lol.
Theuthras Tolhcore me toooo
I love that you referenced the Temeraire series. Its a super interesting series that takes a super practical take on dragons actually existing.
What a lovely crossover!
How did we survive this school day?
A WIZARD DID IT
So wizards dont exist in my school?
The one thing that can unite the Aussies and the Kiwis: Dragons.
Imagine an Australian dragon based on their wildlife tho...gigantic winged spider-snakes. Eek. Us kiwis would just have really birdy ones with maybe a hint of fish or bat, much nicer thought!
This was a great video Tim and thanks for teaching us all of these things when we want to write a story on them. I personally like to base a dragons habitat and other needs based on its design because you can't really have dragons that would fit more in the sky living in the ocean there wings would have to be shorter and there body's more streamlined. Really looking forward to learning from part 2 of this video I tend to think about different dragon designs all the time but I am never quite sure how to put them in a story.
Well son come to me I am going to make dragons in the future so I know the design I want for the aka they will be partly based after a wings of fire dragon aka u have almost all those books lol but they will be partly based off of the rainwings and sir/ma'am I would like to know disigns of dragons from u
@@haileytheflamedragon2990 Oh my god, mate. Punctuation, *please.*
I too plan on writing a story. I've come up with an interesting way for magic to work: magic particles, called Thaums, are constantly generated inside certain types of stars, and radiate out onto nearby planets. On surface they start interfeting with thoughts and emotions of intelligent beings. They mostly work like 'standard' magic, but one thing that makes them stand out is that they also react to hopes, prayers and all kinds of superstitions. If a loads of people believe in dragons, thaums will create dragons. If an entire nation prays to a god, a god will be created.
Back to the topic of dragons: Because existance of dragons breaks laws of physics [fire-breathing, mass/lift ratio, etc.], said laws have to be constantly overriden by Thaums. If 100% of Thaums in a certain area is depleted, dragons will slowly begin to die and disitegrate. This forces them to be constantly moving, and keep as far as possible of each other unless they have to meet during mating season and such.
What do you think?
@@imperialguardsman135 Feels like a combination between Discworld and Numenera. It sounds like "created" dragons would conform to the dominant beliefs of dragons at the time. It would be a fascinating way to track cultural progress.
A sudden Shad appeared! I love it. I can really feel those machicolations
You never fail to amaze me in the depth and passion you have for everything writing creative and nerdy. You are truly a gift thank you for the videos you make, they always brighten my day.
I got an add about Kit Harrington and Toothless before this video....
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you watched Shrek 2 recently...
I can tell that u are very sarcastic by your profile picture
omg I sooo love your editing. I’m just sitting here chuckling with delight and getting information on one of my fav topics. Thanks 🙏 😍 💙
YAY! Dragons! Temeraire! Shadiversity! And your mad editing talents and awesome analysis = might be my favorite video of yours yet. Thanks!
Love that you referenced The Age of Fire Series and Temeriare. Two SEVERELY under represented Dragon-related series!
The Red Dragon from Welsh Mythology who became the symbol of our country is a reflection of good and bad things.
He's first mentioned when many great plagues were sweeping the country, from no one being able to keep their secrets, to earthquakes. He was fighting a white dragon, which caused many of the problems and with some magic, he and the white dragon were sealed in chests and berried deep into a mountain in the country.
But many years later, a Welsh king is under threat and retreats into the mountains to create a fort to protect himself. But every day it crumbles, so the King tries to find out what's happening. A boy tells the King of the dragons under the mountain and the King digs them out. The White and Red Dragons fought and the White Dragon flew away, injured. The Red Dragon was said to symbolize the Welsh and the White Dragon the invaders after the King.
In a book I'm writing, I hope to reflect this idea of Dragons and many other Welsh Mythological creatures being good and bad. You mentioning coal helped me remember an important detail of my world building concerning one of my characters, that I'm going to make a point in their history. Thanks for the idea and if you do research the Welsh Dragon (or any other Welsh myths) just ask me, it's my favorite thing to look up.
The red dragon god DEWI, isn't first mentioned there, and is WAY older than that story. Plus, almost everyone knows this story. Alot of the good modern dragons draw from him, so I mean, I don't think he needs a mention.
I now feel tempted to have a group of communist dragons in my story. "The revolution never came so quick!!"
*our story
@@genericname2747 You are right Comrade, please don't tell Stalin.....
I must report this infraction to our glorious comrade
Ahhh, Dragons.
6:38 That music.... GENIUS!! I always love your videos, thank you for sharing the knowledge
I did not expect Shadiversity to jump in
THE CHANNELS ARE COLAPSING!
THE SINGULARITY IS NIGH!
Ok
Kinda what jujimufu did to fitness channels lol
James Goldberg facts, he’s been everywhere lately. Even casually hanging around the AW world champion like they were old college buddies or something
Chris Jason I didn’t like him at first but on his merits you have to respect him and I’m sure that’s how he keeps winning people over. Lot of charisma and self made in every regard. I’m sure the other greats relate to him a lot.
I'm assuming that the dragons in Eragon would count as Western Thinkers as they're immensely beastly but able to be reasoned with.
Eragon's may be somewhat more complicated, because there's some difference between wild dragons and ones bonded with a Rider. They're probably a decent example of how to do dragons, though. Kinda surprised Eragon wasn't really mentioned in this video, though maybe more in the second part.
@@shadowblade5656 Pernese Dragons are probably more influential than Eragon though (and this not to knock the books), and they were not mentioned either.
@@glenbe4026 Sure Pern has had more influence on literature as a whole, but it's worldbuilding is kind of a trash fire. Also Pern is firmly in Science Fiction and he seems to be prinarily discussing Fantasy.
@@shadowblade5656 Well, Sapphira is on the thumbnail of part 2... Maybe her and the Pernese dragons will be mentioned there.
Awesome plug for Shad! :D Love his channel!
I love that you mentioned Temeraire because the way they are treated: equals and philosophers in the east and warmachines in the west, and Temeraire in the middle of that, was what attracts me the most to the series!
I got so many ideas on how to incorporate dragons into my story, you have no idea how grateful I am! My long-dead inspiration has partially revived, now I just need the part two of this video XD
No mention of Anne McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern :( I know it's old but it's my favorite and quite possibly my first experience with dragons, I think this video puts them in between a western thinker and a western beast. Although I'm not sure about how to dissect the series in relation to the other points.
PS As a kid I really wanted a Fire Lizard as a pet. (still, do actually)
I thought the same thing. Modern franchises like Eragon and How to Train Your Dragon probably wouldn't exist without Anne McCaffrey's Pern books.
frank hatter Pern’s dragons started as tiny things. But when humans colonized Pern, and first Thread-fall was so devastating, we bred the tiny dragons into larger & larger beasts. Downside is they also became more susceptible to the thread themselves even though they had fire to burn the thread as it fell.
So ecologically, they didn’t really exist until humans created them, and their relationship with humans was either as horses or later kinda like peers. At least in the books I read of the series... there were a lot more later.
I have read as many of these as I could get my hands on (hint, it was many) and I absolutely agree - they're definitely closer to a Western Thinker, but the fact that they are genetically engineered to be of similar intelligence to a human and of sufficient size to carry them during Threadfall means that their origins are in beasts of no more ability to reason than your average cat. However, the original fire lizards (also agree, I want, like, 6) are not entirely beastly since we see that they can be friendly, although at least part of that is due to Imprinting. I think their socio-political effects on the world are explored best in the later books in the series, while their abilities develop and change depending on the development of the series - without spoilers, the dragons have to use an external resource to create fire, and that takes humans to mine and provide (there's an entire book on its mining and at one point, apparent scarcity). Overall though, their nature is to be guardians, a defensive fiery shield against the terror of Thread, and to select the leading humans when they fly to mate.
On the other end of that scale, I also adore the swamp dragons from Terry Pratchett's Discworld - their defensive mechanism is to explode when threatened, thus eliminating the predator/threat. Obviously this only works so well, so they're an endangered species!
I was waiting for him to mention her the WHOLE time. I was shocked that he never brought her up. Hers is the definitive work on dragons.
I highly recommend that you read Niklas Krog's "The Freedom Wars" trilogy (Trilogin om Frihetskrigen), if you haven't already. That series is a fascinating take on world building, empires, and the use of fantasy elements. Krog also manages an awesome prequel in the book "The War of the Great Peace" (Den Stora Fredens Krig).
On the topic of dragon culture, I ALWAYS bawl my eyes out at the end of the main story line in Skyrim. The grief shown by the dragons is heart breaking.
The perfect collaboration doesn't exi-
I haven't read the Temeraire series in so long. It was really nostaligic to see you mention it. I honestly loved it so much especially as I tend to shy away from war stories.
Always remember - iroh never killed the dragon - he's far too awesome for that
I fucking love dragons so this is great.
You put that “Fairy Godmother” song to WORK! Lol
Nice bit having Shad break in there! Well done with everyone in character.
my book is coming together, thanks to this channel.
Another excellent video. This kind of explanation of how World building can be improved has helped me greatly both in my writing and in my Dungeons and Dragons campaigns. thank you.
A really original take on dragons is in a webtoon called "Abide in the Wind," (which no one freaking knows about). They're super powerful and devine, metaphysical creator type creatures, but don't posess the choatic intelligence of humans and are therefore highly suseptible to corruption once intelligent life evolves on a planet they've created. They barely seem to have consciousness until they choose someone to safeguard their power and lifeforce in their bodies. It's super cool.
4:24 Well, actually there are types of "dragons" (Long) associated with all elements of Chinese philosophy. There is the Azure Dragon (Qinglong), which is associated with Wood (and was the official symbol of the Qing dynasty); the Yellow Dragon (Huanglong), which is associated with Earth; the Black Dragon (Heilong), which is associated with water; the Red Dragon (Chilong), which is associated with Fire; and lastly the White Dragon (Báilong), associated with metal.
If there were dragons on Roshar, I imagine it would go something like this:
Azir: *Hushed conversations about the scholarly institutions of this new beast*
Shinovar: Keep them away from the rocks!
Jah Keved: The diagram said *nothing* about this.
Thaylenah: Create submarines to keep safe from the fire.
Alethkar: ATTACK!!!!
I was so excited to see the Temeraire books referenced on here! They're such underappreciated books!
5:05 I CLAPPED WOOT. I absolutely LOVE that book series! So good! They have wild beast dragons and also the west thinker dragons, and the way they implement how dragons live together with humans (or not) throughout the world is AMAZINGLY detailed
How to kill a dragon?
Simple, just throw a pommel.
jhjkhgjhfgjg jgjyfhdhbfjhg how else would you end them rightly ?
Now that's just overkill, dude.
Are you trying to kill a dragon, and the country with it? XD
End them rightly!
Jesus just drop a nuke on the poor thing why dont you
LIGHTNING!!!!
When u mentioned Wings of Fire and showed the 6th book (Moon rising) I got so excited and impatient to read it XD
I'm on The Dark Secret btw (Book 4)
Also great video, Tim!
Edit: 3 years passed so quickly wow, but still have to read arc 3 lol
Ok I won't spoil say the next 8 book you have to go oh hold on I forgot to mention the 2 graphic novels as well heh heh
Hailey the Flame dragon or 9-12
@@haileytheflamedragon2990 btw I finished The Dark Secret a few hours ago
What a horrible jump scare seeing shad like that. what a muppet
16:19 And Age of Fire reference?! I love that series. I found its perspective of a dragon MC very interesting. Though the Lavadome isn't mentioned until book 3 and beyond.
HOLY CRAP THATS A CROSSOVER I NEEDED, LOVE YOU AND SHADI
Shadiversity came on like a jumpscare.
3:20 is the best moment in this video- Wings of Fire forever!
WOOOOOOO HOOOOO!!!! GO WINGS OF FIRE!!!!!
Yeah you're doing a topic that I love. Dragons were the Genesis of my imagination
Yeas same
I use these on writing videos to improve my D&D campaign’s story. These videos help me so much, thank you! Keep up the good work!
I started watching, and thought, "gosh, wouldn't this be a good spot for that Shad line 'what about dragons'" and lo and behold, my wish was granted! Perfection.
I always loved Naomi Novik's dragonworld. Everything seemed to be so well thought out and planned, it was just perfect. And the social criticism she brought into it amazed me. Although Temeraire was clearly intelligent and had his own personality, the government only accepted the rights of dragons, when they experienced France's military strength. By not using the dragons as mere tools, but recognizing them as intelligent beings who deserve respect, payment, a voice in the parliament, Bonaparte had the upper hand in the war for quite some time.
What I especially liked, was the part of the story where Temeraire went to China and learned how the asian culture treated dragons, which brought him to the plan and strong will of bringing that better treatment and high respect for dragons home to his english friends.
Okay, I'll stop now... No one I know even heard of those books and I never get to geek out about them :D But I'll stop now before it gets out of hand :D
The mention and this comment make me want to check out my local library for those books. They sound real interesting.
I love Naomi's Temeraire world
It's so underrated!
@@AegixDrakan Do it! They are really worth it. :)
I will second Modellflug and steyn in praising the Temeraire books and hope this youtube series at least mentions it in passing. Really great series that offers a very compelling and interesting take on real historical events altered by the presence of dragons.
Yes hello did somebody say dragons?
Lol same
Relatable XD
Huh? What about dragons?
@@beccag2758 are u blind he/she likes dragons and I hope u can tell I do too
Erm I meant that as a joke/reference to Shadiversity's catchphrase😂
I mean, in Wings of Fire there is literally a dragon succession crisis. That's awesome.
I saw this in my notifications a week ago. Didn't watch it right away but today I watched the cycle of war and now this. After barely an hour you've earned a sub my friend.
Seeing all of these different franchise callbacks in this video especially excited me. Like With Legend of Spyro. Seeing my childhood trilogy being constantly associated here is pure awesome~
Love how this video grants insights OSP's video on it lacks and vice versa
One kind of dragon archetype that I have seen a couple of times is where dragons are kind of "third force" in the battle between heaven and hell kind of representing the material world (where Gods represent heaven and demons represent hell) and in these chases they tend to be very wise and powerful but ultimately mostly aloof or hostile to some degree to the humans. Building into the world kind of three way conflict between Gods with humans, Demons with monsters and Dragons with animals or some other force.
I did something like this for my D&D setting. The Dragons were the first intelligent species, and so they created servitor races (lizard people, gargoyles, naga, etc.) and an empire to serve their needs. They also shaped the primal magical energies, and created the magic system everyone used. During their experiments, they opened a portal to the infernal realms, and allowed a flood of Demons into their world, who began killing and eating everything they saw. Things went badly, until the Angels showed up and started nuking the Demons to ash, along with the cities they were invading. This leveled the saurian empire, and left billions homeless. Finally, a troupe of Dragons managed to make it to the portal and close it, and the Angels got to work blasting the Demons into oblivion. With the Demons gone, but their empire destroyed, and many of their servants extinct, they forced the Angels to sign "the compact" a document that assured the greater forces wouldn't enter the world without their consent. Most of their servants (the few that survived) fled into the wilds and became barbarians. The Dragons have been brooding ever since, and are more than a little uptight.
Neat
I also did a tree way thing in one of my worlds aswell, but with out dragons...
It has:
⚪天 (heaven)
🔴人 (man)
⚫土 (earth)
...both Heaven & Earth are Divine & Spiritual. Heaven is associated with the primordial Father, & Earth is associated with the primordial Mother. (kinda like ancient greek Gaia & Ouranos)
Thank you very much Tim, me and a group of friends are wring a book together an we just came upon the question: What about Dragons ?
Hay can u add me in the book as a dragon who is part human and the queen of dragons and I shall be blood red black and gold pleeeeeeease
*this video but every time it plays I need a hero it gets 5% faster*
thank you for mentioning The Dragon Prince. it’s awesome
Your videos are so helpful! After quite a lot of research on how to worldbuild, your videos give me new perspectives. Thank you.
The wings of fire books got me very interested in dragons in fantasy
Same the first one I had was the prequel the I started like dragons to the next level of obsession
I remember when I first read the book in summer school then in 8th grade read the entire series I’m still obsessed with WoF