He should definitely join Young Griff because not only is Griff great but then maybe he can meet Number One Chubby Cheese Dad Illyrio, so he can see what being a loving father looks like.
This is a really smart idea and video. And we know Reach houses have been bitter since Aegon I elevated the Tyrells from stewards to their liege position.
I think it would be interesting if, before Samwell runs into his father afte rleaving Oldtown, that Dickon has died in the war. Randyll is so worried about legacy and having a martial heir, only to now be left with only one surviving child, who is oath-bound elsewhere. I think it would make for a fascinating conversation, potentially with Randyll trying to get Sam to return, and Sam essentially telling him to go screw himself.
An excellent summation of the diegetic and narrative reasons behind the Tarly defection theory. Another thing to keep in mind is that the heir to Highgarden, the future liege lord of House Tarly, Willas Tyrell, seems to have a lot more in common with Randyll's despised son, Sam. He's nice, and quiet and bookish and pen pals with the most infamous member of House Martell, Oberyn the Red Viper, against whom most of his family seems to think Willas should have a grudge. (Another key detail about the Golden Company's support in the Reach is that a good portion of the support for the Blackfyres was opposition to Daeron II's pro-Dornish policies; Randyll might very well share those attitudes, as the Tarlys are marcher lords with a history of fighting the Dornish - think about Arys Oakheart's thoughts on the matter and then look at how much closer Horn Hill is to Dorne than Old Oak) Randyll might very well see Willas as another Sam, but instead of unworthily inheriting Horn Hill and Heartsbane, he will be the man Randyll's preferred son & heir and grandsons will have to kneel and swear fealty to. Where Randyll served a fat fool thanklessly for more than 15 years, Dickon is going to have to do the same for an even less worthy, less martial, less warrior-like Warden of the South. Another point is that even Olenna Tyrell concedes that there is some justification to the Florents' claims against the Tyrells' right to Highgarden. Highgarden was given to House Tyrell who were elevated to Lords Paramount of the Reach by the Targaryen conquerors after the previous ruling House, the Gardeners, were wiped out in the male line. But there would have been many Gardener daughters who married into other families, bringing their own blood claims. From that we can infer that the woman with the best inheritance claim to Highgarden was probably wed to a Florent, and thus that House has been arguing that they are the true heirs of the Gardener Kings. And as the video points out, the next male heir to Brightwater Keep & the Florent titles is Melessa Florent's son, Dickon Tarly. Too, there is the mythical origin of the kingdom of the Reach, under the god-like hero, Garth Greenhand, going back to the earliest days of humans in Westeros, and many of the old houses of the Reach claim descent from one of Garth's offspring, including the Florents and the Tarlys. Meanwhile the Tyrells were interlopers who arrived thousands of years later, with the Andals, and were mere household knights of the Gardener kings, elevated to hereditary stewards, who gained their current lordship and high office by meekly surrendering the seat of their king to the Targaryens. Randyll is a guy who values tradition and heritage, since he named his first born son Sam, which many of the legendary Tarlys in history have held, including Savage Sam who fought the Vulture King and Samantha Tarly, who married the lord of Oldtown and faced down the Faith over her illicit relationship and remarriage to her stepson.
I hope Sam gets a chance to stick it to his dad! On an unrelated note, I think there may be a chance of Randall Tarly joining with Young Griff. In a Dance With The Dragons, he kept expressing skepticism that Jon Connington has really returned, but could he possibly just be playing none the wiser?
I think Tarly and his heir will get themselves killed and that Sam will end up Lord of Horn Hill. He will create a home for scholars and have an awesome library, and create a small center for sanity with his mother, his sisters and Gilly.
Another candidate to flip on the Tyrells is Mathis Rowan. Named prominently as one of the major lords of the Reach, he hasn't done much, while being presented as a competent guy, who is personally loyal but not a blind follower of the Tyrells. Kevan Lannister promotes him as a candidate to replace Tywin as Hand, saying that by appointing him, Cersei would win his allegiance away from Mace Tyrell. So he's not ride or die for Highgarden, but still Kevan calls him loyal. Well, he was one of the lords fighting for House Targaryen in Robert's Rebellion, recalling the siege of Storm's End from the besieger's perspective, and Tyrion notices that he looks disgusted at the hypocrisy of Tywin in council declaring that the Martells will receive justice for the murders of Elia & her children. Given the absolute mess of the Lannister regime, the by-now-open "secret" of Tommen's parentage, and the eagerness of Rowan's overlord to do whatever it takes to keep this utterly contemptible train rolling, because he wants a royal grandson and a seat at the big table, I could see Rowan signing on for a Targaryen restoration.
Mace, I think, cannot flip now. He is too intertwined with the Lanisters. He is practically ruling, with all his relatives in hight positions too. And what about Margery - she will be in danger in Kings Landing, if he flips. Tarly can go both ways. He was slighted, but he was also given things, for example he is now on the small council. But he is very ambitions and also kind of smart (politically, not book smart), so if he sees that his current party will inevitably loose, I can see him joining the other side. It is survival. It could be dangerous for his family at first, but what will happen with them if he stubbornly stays on the loosing side? Here I do so agree, the Tyrells will be falling with the Lannisters and Tarly will leave the sinking ship. I think you are "spot on" on the political games in the south.
About Sam and his father - I also agree, it was not bad in the movie, but too cliché. I cannot wait to see what GRMM will do. I suspect it will be better.
The turncloaking during the battle could work. Anglo-Scottish marcher lords did it so much that soldiers would go into battle with one country’s flag sewn over the other’s on their jerkins so they could rip it off and change sides if they were losing.
One think that you dosent take în consideration is that the whole family of Randyl ,especially Dickon îs în the Reach , so if he betray them , Willas or Garlan my take them prisoners
I do disagree with the resolution of the Tarly family stuff following the path of the show. The show completely misunderstands the point of the Tarly men's relationship. Randyll is myopic in regard to strength and competence and is incapable of seeing Sam's strengths and virtues. The show actually validates Randyll's worldview. To put it another way, Randyll is like a sports dad, who thinks his son is worthless because he doesn't like football and is not good at it. The books say "Randyll is wrong, Sam is not worthless. There are other things important in life besides football." The show says "Randyll is wrong, Sam is not worthless. He's actually a GREAT football player!" The show has Sam cite his father's words about reading about the accomplishments of better men when he quits the Citadel! In the same final confrontation between Sam and Randyll, the show attempts to claim that Randyll holds such power that Sam is terrified of what his father can and might do to him... and also that his wife and daughter can embarrass Randyll at his table, in his own seat of power, in front of a low-status guest, with no repercussions or blowback, and Randyll can only meekly compliment her. If Lady Tarly has such influence, how did Randyll force Sam into the Night's Watch under threat of death? If Randyll has such power and willingness to use it on his own family, how does every member of his family except Sam push back at him? The only conclusion is that Sam actually is a coward and a weakling for letting such impotent threats drive him from his home. I think there is a good chance Sam never encounters Randyll again, that his growth will come without needing validation or victory over Randyll. Randyll drove Sam out of the family, so Sam does not need him anymore. His victory will come, to whatever degree it does, by having Randyll accept a cuckoo's egg grandson into his household, through his own prejudices and measures of manhood. Sam believes that his so-noble father will be *proud* that his son broke an oath to father a child, because making male babies is proof of manliness. This is not a guy whose good opinion is worth having.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
He should definitely join Young Griff because not only is Griff great but then maybe he can meet Number One Chubby Cheese Dad Illyrio, so he can see what being a loving father looks like.
Randyll and Tywin were just playing crusader kings with their kids. Can’t blame them
This is a really smart idea and video. And we know Reach houses have been bitter since Aegon I elevated the Tyrells from stewards to their liege position.
Friends in the Reach: Randyll Tarly and Mathis Rowan
I think it would be interesting if, before Samwell runs into his father afte rleaving Oldtown, that Dickon has died in the war. Randyll is so worried about legacy and having a martial heir, only to now be left with only one surviving child, who is oath-bound elsewhere. I think it would make for a fascinating conversation, potentially with Randyll trying to get Sam to return, and Sam essentially telling him to go screw himself.
An excellent summation of the diegetic and narrative reasons behind the Tarly defection theory. Another thing to keep in mind is that the heir to Highgarden, the future liege lord of House Tarly, Willas Tyrell, seems to have a lot more in common with Randyll's despised son, Sam. He's nice, and quiet and bookish and pen pals with the most infamous member of House Martell, Oberyn the Red Viper, against whom most of his family seems to think Willas should have a grudge. (Another key detail about the Golden Company's support in the Reach is that a good portion of the support for the Blackfyres was opposition to Daeron II's pro-Dornish policies; Randyll might very well share those attitudes, as the Tarlys are marcher lords with a history of fighting the Dornish - think about Arys Oakheart's thoughts on the matter and then look at how much closer Horn Hill is to Dorne than Old Oak) Randyll might very well see Willas as another Sam, but instead of unworthily inheriting Horn Hill and Heartsbane, he will be the man Randyll's preferred son & heir and grandsons will have to kneel and swear fealty to. Where Randyll served a fat fool thanklessly for more than 15 years, Dickon is going to have to do the same for an even less worthy, less martial, less warrior-like Warden of the South.
Another point is that even Olenna Tyrell concedes that there is some justification to the Florents' claims against the Tyrells' right to Highgarden. Highgarden was given to House Tyrell who were elevated to Lords Paramount of the Reach by the Targaryen conquerors after the previous ruling House, the Gardeners, were wiped out in the male line. But there would have been many Gardener daughters who married into other families, bringing their own blood claims. From that we can infer that the woman with the best inheritance claim to Highgarden was probably wed to a Florent, and thus that House has been arguing that they are the true heirs of the Gardener Kings. And as the video points out, the next male heir to Brightwater Keep & the Florent titles is Melessa Florent's son, Dickon Tarly.
Too, there is the mythical origin of the kingdom of the Reach, under the god-like hero, Garth Greenhand, going back to the earliest days of humans in Westeros, and many of the old houses of the Reach claim descent from one of Garth's offspring, including the Florents and the Tarlys. Meanwhile the Tyrells were interlopers who arrived thousands of years later, with the Andals, and were mere household knights of the Gardener kings, elevated to hereditary stewards, who gained their current lordship and high office by meekly surrendering the seat of their king to the Targaryens. Randyll is a guy who values tradition and heritage, since he named his first born son Sam, which many of the legendary Tarlys in history have held, including Savage Sam who fought the Vulture King and Samantha Tarly, who married the lord of Oldtown and faced down the Faith over her illicit relationship and remarriage to her stepson.
I hope Sam gets a chance to stick it to his dad! On an unrelated note, I think there may be a chance of Randall Tarly joining with Young Griff. In a Dance With The Dragons, he kept expressing skepticism that Jon Connington has really returned, but could he possibly just be playing none the wiser?
I think Tarly and his heir will get themselves killed and that Sam will end up Lord of Horn Hill.
He will create a home for scholars and have an awesome library, and create a small center for sanity with his mother, his sisters and Gilly.
Randall was right sam is not worthy to be a tarly
@@Mohler41 He's wrong.
@@sgauden02 sam is not made for this world
@@Mohler41 Sansa wasn't either.
Another candidate to flip on the Tyrells is Mathis Rowan. Named prominently as one of the major lords of the Reach, he hasn't done much, while being presented as a competent guy, who is personally loyal but not a blind follower of the Tyrells. Kevan Lannister promotes him as a candidate to replace Tywin as Hand, saying that by appointing him, Cersei would win his allegiance away from Mace Tyrell. So he's not ride or die for Highgarden, but still Kevan calls him loyal. Well, he was one of the lords fighting for House Targaryen in Robert's Rebellion, recalling the siege of Storm's End from the besieger's perspective, and Tyrion notices that he looks disgusted at the hypocrisy of Tywin in council declaring that the Martells will receive justice for the murders of Elia & her children.
Given the absolute mess of the Lannister regime, the by-now-open "secret" of Tommen's parentage, and the eagerness of Rowan's overlord to do whatever it takes to keep this utterly contemptible train rolling, because he wants a royal grandson and a seat at the big table, I could see Rowan signing on for a Targaryen restoration.
Mace, I think, cannot flip now. He is too intertwined with the Lanisters. He is practically ruling, with all his relatives in hight positions too. And what about Margery - she will be in danger in Kings Landing, if he flips. Tarly can go both ways. He was slighted, but he was also given things, for example he is now on the small council. But he is very ambitions and also kind of smart (politically, not book smart), so if he sees that his current party will inevitably loose, I can see him joining the other side. It is survival. It could be dangerous for his family at first, but what will happen with them if he stubbornly stays on the loosing side? Here I do so agree, the Tyrells will be falling with the Lannisters and Tarly will leave the sinking ship. I think you are "spot on" on the political games in the south.
Hmm if he and Mace turn cloak Margery could be headed for her fourth wedding!
About Sam and his father - I also agree, it was not bad in the movie, but too cliché. I cannot wait to see what GRMM will do. I suspect it will be better.
I think Mace and Randyl might flip.
The turncloaking during the battle could work. Anglo-Scottish marcher lords did it so much that soldiers would go into battle with one country’s flag sewn over the other’s on their jerkins so they could rip it off and change sides if they were losing.
Mace ames Tarly in the small council not Kevan
One think that you dosent take în consideration is that the whole family of Randyl ,especially Dickon îs în the Reach , so if he betray them , Willas or Garlan my take them prisoners
I do disagree with the resolution of the Tarly family stuff following the path of the show. The show completely misunderstands the point of the Tarly men's relationship. Randyll is myopic in regard to strength and competence and is incapable of seeing Sam's strengths and virtues. The show actually validates Randyll's worldview.
To put it another way, Randyll is like a sports dad, who thinks his son is worthless because he doesn't like football and is not good at it. The books say "Randyll is wrong, Sam is not worthless. There are other things important in life besides football." The show says "Randyll is wrong, Sam is not worthless. He's actually a GREAT football player!" The show has Sam cite his father's words about reading about the accomplishments of better men when he quits the Citadel! In the same final confrontation between Sam and Randyll, the show attempts to claim that Randyll holds such power that Sam is terrified of what his father can and might do to him... and also that his wife and daughter can embarrass Randyll at his table, in his own seat of power, in front of a low-status guest, with no repercussions or blowback, and Randyll can only meekly compliment her. If Lady Tarly has such influence, how did Randyll force Sam into the Night's Watch under threat of death? If Randyll has such power and willingness to use it on his own family, how does every member of his family except Sam push back at him? The only conclusion is that Sam actually is a coward and a weakling for letting such impotent threats drive him from his home.
I think there is a good chance Sam never encounters Randyll again, that his growth will come without needing validation or victory over Randyll. Randyll drove Sam out of the family, so Sam does not need him anymore. His victory will come, to whatever degree it does, by having Randyll accept a cuckoo's egg grandson into his household, through his own prejudices and measures of manhood. Sam believes that his so-noble father will be *proud* that his son broke an oath to father a child, because making male babies is proof of manliness. This is not a guy whose good opinion is worth having.