Thank you everyone for waiting so long for this. I am sorry it took so long to make. Thank you also to Rockstar for releasing the copyright claim on this video. Here are timestamps. If you enjoy this video please drop a like. It helps me make more content like this. 0:00 Intro 1:06 Big Smoke's Personality 3:47 Why Does Smoke Come Back In Reuniting The Families 5:50 Times When Smoke Questioned Sweet's Leadership 11:10 Big Smoke Shutting Ryder Up On CJ's Moms Murder 13:20 Big Smoke Refusing To Shoot The Ballas 14:15 What Big Smoke Is Really Saying 17:09 Why Smoke Shoots At The Ballas In Drive By 17:57 Smoke's Missions Aren't Grove Street Related 19:15 The Russian Mafia's Role 23:46 Smoke's Betrayal In Green Sabre 29:09 Tenpenny's Role 30:00 The Loco Syndicate's Role 32:25 Toreno's Role And The CIA 32:50 The Los Santos Crack Empire's Role 33:41 How Big Smoke Hid His Crack Money 41:40 Ryder's Role 42:12 Why Tenpenny Had Kane Killed 44:32 Why Tenpenny Caused The Police Raid 47:32 Why Ryder's Death Broke Smoke 50:18 Why Tenpenny Choose Smoke Not Sweet 53:55 Was Smoke Really Forced To Betray CJ? 1:00:55 Why CJ's Mom Was Killed 1:04:25 Why Tenpenny Killed Officer Pendlebury 1:08:25 Did Smoke And Ryder Know About CJ's Mom? 1:09:13 Why Was Smoke In CJ's House? 1:11:20 Why Smoke Used CJ 1:11:43 Did Smoke Regret Betraying CJ?
i disagree with your statement on big smoke and ryder, let me put it this way, would you stay and risk dying and not making it out, or would you leave then come back to help your homies out? Sweet said strictly one rep per set, chances are if everyone stayed the more likely ryder smoke CJ and sweet would have died, We all know CJ stays behind, Big Smoke And Ryder had a choice to stay and risk being killed or leave draw attention away from the building and then return for CJ and Sweet. Big Smoke could have been worried and returned for CJ And Sweet but Ryder Had no obligation to return.
I'm "from the streets" too, but not like that. My neighborhood isn't that ghetto. It's not that much of a shit hole. You don't see me whining about it.
Personally, I always interpreted Smoke as the guy who got what he wanted only to realize later on what it cost him, but he kept moving forward because there was no going back.
That is exactly his character he wanted money fame and power but in the end it made him empty he wasn't even surprised to see Cj come kill him at the end of the game he didn't care about it either he had his empire but wasn't happy
A rather good interpretation. The flow took him too far until there was no way out, only forward. From this angle, we can theorize that he did realize that taking this opportunity cost him everything but by that point it was impossible to slow down or bail. He was always out for himself and found himself alone at the top, I guess. Then it aaaaall came crashing down.
Yup man it was the money that led him to even think about doing the most backstabbing type of acts against his own gang n he knew that if potential rivals r down for crack money he would fit right in wit a lot of them that turned their back on the grove, he was always out for his self n then when somebody tries to expose him he brings up something else like the pro says so that's says way more about him that we know hes trying to hide never fully understood until I saw this vid which pro did a fantastic job at explaining BS's morale
I feel bad that Ryder was carried into this mess by Smoke, probably Rockstar just wanted to humiliate the VA for leaving early and destroyed his character. You can see that he cares about the gang and acts like Sweet, calling CJ for his disloyalty and wanted to strengthen them by finding better guns for Emmet. At least they could’ve killed him at the ambush in Green Saber mission, give us a bigger reason to hate Smoke
They also did that to Burt Reynolds. He played Avery Carrington in Vice City. They killed off his character in Liberty City Stories in a stupid way. He doesn't even say anything.
@@theprofessional155Wow really? I didn’t play LC stories yet but his character was kinda small compared to Ryder. I guess Trevor also got the same treatment from the Smugglers Run beginning cutscene with Ron saying he “thought of himself too big and going all Vinewood”, guess Steven Oggs hatred for being a “cartoon” was much earlier than that drama
Well funnily enough Ryder's VA would be back in Rockstar's good terms when he came back as a radio guest in GTA V and his music appeared on the West Coast Classics.
As much as I hated Tenpenny, he did have a point, just because you've known someone for a long time, it don't mean they'll stay loyal to their friends. Todays friends could be your enemies tomorrow and I'd say that this game shows that quite well.
Yeah, and the fact is made more obvious when you realise he returned in GTA V to lend his voice as a guest on the Lab radio station and allowed 4 of his songs to be licensed on West Coast Classics.
@@devangnivatkar2649 The SA introduction video was made during SA development... not after. There was a special edition of the game upon release that included the introduction in an extra DVD.
@@NicolasChiribelo Except it wasn't. It shipped first with the PS2 Special Edition, the version that was put out after Hot Coffee fiasco. This is the M rated version, instead of AO, as it scrubbed all the Hot Coffee content from the data and model files
Smoke chose chicken, knowing that the Ballas were gonna pull up on them at Cluckin' Bell. I also feel like he deliberately took a massive order to perfectly time the arrival of the Ballas
SMOKE WAS ORDERING EVERYONES FOOD, THAT BIG ORDER WASNT ALL OF SMOKES BUT YEAH I DO FEEL HE SET THE WHOLE THING UP BECAUSE HE DIDNT SHOOT BACK AND HE WAS COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO EAT HIS MEAL WITH ALL THAT GOING ON
I agree with Clay. Because an order that long can take up some time for the ballas to show up. More than likely he had contacted some time before and ordered to do another drive by. But, due to the incompetence of the Ballas again, couldn't get the job done like they were told to.
@@HeavyWeapon858 BUT SMOKE ASKED EVERYONE WHAT THEY WANTED TO EAT AND ORDERED WHAT THEY ASKED FOR, NOT SAYING HE DIDN'T SET THEN UP JUST SAYING HE ORDERED WHAT THEY ASKED FOR
@@KyyaJoon Hey bro, you should probably turn off your caps lock. Not to mention, you must've not been paying attention to the cut scene. Everyone else ordered food for themselves and they were perplexed because of Big Smoke's order. Someone I know that is even bigger than big smoke has ordered that amount of food for themselves. Tbh it's a disgusting amount of food to eat.
@@HeavyWeapon858 NO THEY DIDNT, AND I DONT HAVE TO DO NOTHING, MAYBE YOU MISSED THE CUT SCENE BECAUSE HE ORDERED EVERYONE'S FOOD. GO BACK AND WATCH IT FOR YOURSELF SMOKE ORDERED 3 MEALS FOR HIMSELF AND THE REST WERE RYDAS, CJS AND SWEATS
The way tenpenny disregarded Pulaski when he called him pal just show how little care and respect tenpenny has for him and people that work with him cj was right when he told pulaski that tenpenny is just going to kill him off considering he left him alone with cj and hernandez who almost jumped him but got shot giving cj a window to kill pulaski
Yep, even though Big Smoke was all for himself and willing to sabotage his friendships, Tenpenny was willing to do the same, but at higher risks. Tenpenny would’ve definitely threw Pulaski under the bus once he got whatever he wanted, he just needed some leverage that’ll help him up until he was satisfied.
nah, there's zero honor in business like that Pulaski would've gotten the same treatment tenpenny is a raging narcissist he's only out for self-gain. @@Carissa-KsiezniczkaCalixu
I wish Ryder's, Niko's, and Tommy's voice actor's never quit. Ryder and CJ would have teammed up together in the end, taking down all the Ballas and Vagos.
MC Eiht (Ryder's VA) quitting is false He's still in good terms with Rockstar and he did help make GTA V's theme song. And used some of his songs in the game including his song "Straight Up Menace" (which was also used in the movie Menace to Society) in the West Coast Classics Radio Station.
Personally I think that when smoke said “I had no choice” he didn’t meant that he was forced, he meant that his entire live he lived in poverty, without opportunity and barely scrapping by, he might be under boss of a gang… but the gang is extremely poor, sweet was happy how he was but smoke wasn’t willing to live his entire live like that. Even when he went to sweet in the introduction to convince him to deal in drugs he says “this is the biggest money making opportunity that guys like us will ever see” Basically, smoke choice was either to continue being poor for the rest of his life and watch how the gang he leads eventually fades, or get rich and leave his mark on the world. I think that smoke wanted sweet to be part of the operation, but tempenny knew that would end in failure, and he was right because sweet didn’t had interest in dealing in drugs. Tempenny simply wanted smoke to kill him and get it over with, but smoke would rather want to sweet to join in, so tempenny got more and more angry over his failure of killing sweet already. At least he got ryder on the conspiracy. I think smoke never tried to convince CJ because he wasn’t leader on the gang yet, he was just trying to get the respect back, so would be a waste of time to recruit him. Plus CJ shares the same anti drug mindset of his brother, so it would be imposible to convince him either, specially because he tries to gain the approval of sweet, so dealing in drugs was out of tue question for CJ.
Since you mention it, I think GTA SA is about what you're talking about. Sweet is a person with principles, but he is a defender of the status quo. For Sweet, selling drugs is wrong, but stealing and committing other crimes is fine and he considers it a more or less honest way of living. Big Smoke is at the other end of the rope. Smoke is Machiavellian, for him everything is fine as long as you can get something out. Despite seeming like someone very intelligent, it seems that he did not realize that the true antagonist, Tenpenny, only used him to make him the "boss" of a criminal empire that, ironically, is a prisoner of his own empire. Alone and with no one to trust. Sweet tells OG Loc to study and get ahead as a person, but it is advice that does not apply to himself, he believes that ghetto life is fine. Big Smoke believes, instead, in finding your "potential" and exploiting it, seizing every opportunity to get ahead even if it means harming others, including friends. CJ knows that ghetto life is not life. Stealing to feed your family is noble up to a point, yes, but it's not something to be proud of or brag about. CJ is not a saint, he knows that, but life is like that, sometimes you have to make difficult decisions that will not always be good in the literal sense of the words. As they say around there, you can't make a cake without breaking some eggs. But CJ also knows that you can't go through life playing the opportunist all your life. Taking the fast path can get you to the finish line, but it can also cause you to lose control and crash on the road. That's why I think that out of the three, CJ's philosophy of life is the best in the context of the game. You can't live in the ghetto forever, not like that. But you also can't live like a treacherous and opportunistic rat and expect everything to work out. You have to get ahead in your life in the best way possible, with the means you have, and with your friends and family and your very high principles.
@@icyxi i'm sure if you and your friends were caught stealing someone's shit, you would completely break down and sell your friends out. don't act like you wouldn't sell your friends out for some reason especially if they were gang bangers or drug dealers. i have never been in the game but i know damn sure i would snitch on my friends to get the heat off me
Why do you think that Big Smoke initially said to CJ, when they saw the SWAT teams ambush the Jefferson motel "Carl, get back in, we outta here baby!". Was Smoke thinking about getting CJ killed someplace else, or was he tinking about getting back to the hood and letting Sweet get killed and then making CJ the gang's new leader and trying to convince him to enter the drug business, like he wanted Sweet to do in the Introduction? Or was it just a developer oversight?
Your options entail either killing off the protagonist, or killing off Sweet. Doing either would probably have ruined the story, by removing very important characters and "snitching" on Smoke's betrayal. The plan, as it seems, was for the betrayal to be subtle for first-time players. Now, i cannot make a in-universe explanation, but my point is that your ideas would've ruined the story.
I think Smoke came back to rescue CJ because knowing the capabilities of CJ, he would easily get him and his brother to safety, it would have drawn major suspicion to Ryder and Smoke.
I can see where Sweet getting killed there is a more viable option. I disagree with the comment that says it ruins the plot. If Sweet gets killed then CJ now spends the rest of the story finding out how the police got tipped off, and what Smoke knew about it. I think it would enhance the story, BUT Sweet’s character moves the plot along. Without Sweet, Carl doesn’t have an incentive to return to Los Santos except to kill Tenpenny and Smoke. After killing them, he’d go back to Las Venturas and run the casinos.
@@TragicGFuel but I did , and I will again. And when he tries to explain gang culture while he lives in the burbs . There’s so much In this video he tries to explain that is simply wrong because he just doesn’t understand. Like at the funeral argument where Ryder and smoke are in the background . That happens all the time where I’m from . You mind your own business it’s not their place to speak they’re not whispering they’re minding their own business
I knew something was up with Big Smoke after when I did the mission "Drive Thru" I kept asking "why wasn't he shooting?" I always suspected he was hidding something and now after watching this video I understand why he did it.
I played San Andreas multiple times to understand Big Smoke’s betrayal, but there are some parts that confuses me and luckily I finally understand it thanks to your lore video. You’re amazing, Pro!!!
T Bone preventing Toreno from shooting CJ only to threaten CJ as a joke in the next mission I think T-Bone was impressed and didn't want CJ dead for a minor character he is interesting and kind of terrifying
I always thought that if they had ever made a San Andreas Stories, T-Bone would have been the best candidate for protagonist. The game could have shown how he enforced the power of the Loco Syndicate across the whole state.
Hey Patrick, just wanted to thank you for the effort you go for your Lore videos, playthroughts etc. Your channel (in my opinion) is like a classic channel, one that you appreciate due to the honesty of it and its creator. Take care buddy and have a great day.
Ye I guess the introduction gave a better understanding of his plans n sweet seemed more in depth when he heard about smokes plans I think the introduction is more specific letting us know that they were involved
I'm not gonna lie, in the End of the Line cutscene when CJ sees smoke ranting on and on about "fuck the world", "I can't be touched" and even when CJ asks what happened to him and he just replies; " What the fuck do you care?" To me it seems like Smoke was still struggling betraying his gang and his family in the deepest part of his heart. I mean he was even crying and pleading with Tenpenny on the phone when he told him he had to kill Sweet, they grew up together. Yeah he wanted everything to go his way, but I personally think that at the end of the day, his betrayal not only affected his family but also his moral standards as well. So he was probably hurt. It doesn't change what he did, but to me it just seems like he became part of the system, another statistic.
@@princesslyna1029 Incorrect. It was either "get in the crack bussiness" or "stay where they are". Sweet lacked options, as his gang was falling apart due in-fighting combined with rival gangs choosing the crack and becoming powerful.
Smoke talking about his success in the drug trade shows he has no remorse at all. Now, I want to give my analysis on a major SA character. Anyone who enjoyed my analysis, please drop a like so that even Pro sees this himself. I think I am the only commentator who has ever done a lore analysis, I hope everyone sees it including Pro. I had to play the game 3 times and watch the cutscenes and conversations very carefully to understand his intentions. So, my analysis is focused on Ryder, one of CJ's childhood friends who he ends up betraying(or so it seems). I will be explaining what I mean about this, through the questions that a lot of people ask like: Ryder was never meant to be a main villain, other people support this claim by saying there are no hidden signs that he would backstab GSF, whereas other people contradict it by saying there are. After playing through the game, I've found out the things which look like hidden signs aren't actually so. So I am going answer all the misconceptions about Ryder. So let's get started: Ryder was born somewhere in 1967 or 1968 in Ganton at Grove Street. During his early days, he met CJ, Sweet, Big Smoke and Jeffrey(OG Loc), and they became the best of friends. Ryder joined the Families gang at some point and became a drug dealer when he was 10 years old. He had once assaulted a teacher for wearing purple, the color representing Ballas, GSF's main rivals, which shows his wild and unpredictable nature, even though he claims he was too intelligent for it, as he was using drugs, which shows he was also delusional at times. Speaking of drugs, we see that in Ryder's missions: we see him looking for something called "water". Many people are wondering what water is. The water here, is a slang term used for the drug PCP, which shows he has also been using drugs apart from selling it. Many people think that GSF do not sell drugs, which is actually false. They do sell drugs which are less lethal, like marijuana and PCP. But they don't profit much from it, and even Big Smoke tries to convince Sweet to start selling more potent drugs, like crack cocaine, which the Ballas do. But Sweet's morals prevents him from doing so, as he believes crack destroys neighborhoods, which he is right. Ryder eventually worked his way up in the gang and become one of Sweet's closest allies. By 1987, the crack influence in Los Santos had increased and GSF stated to decline, whereas the Ballas and a new gang, the Vagos, got rich from selling crack. CJ and Sweet's younger brother, Brian died in a Ballas attack. While it is unknown how he died, the only thing known was he was seen last with CJ. Sweet blamed CJ for Brian's death, and a disappointed CJ leaves Los Santos to start a new life in Liberty City. At some point between 1987 and 1992, Big Smoke tries to convince Sweet to start selling crack, but he refuses again, which is noticed by Tenpenny, the head of a corrupt police force called CRASH, who wanted to open a massive drug ring in Los Santos, but to do so, he needed the help of all three street gangs: Ballas, Vagos and the GSF. Since Tenpenny knew Sweet was against crack, he convinces Smoke to get GSF into the crack business after he gets Sweet killed, which Smoke agrees to, as he was the underboss. After this, Smoke visits Ryder, whom he tries to convince to join the crack trade with him. Ryder seemingly agrees to it, but I don't think he was actually ready to do so, because he utterly despised crack, which he confirms, after they fail to recruit B Dup. But eventually, Tenpenny sends three Ballas to Grove Strret in a green sabre to do a drive-by and kill Sweet. But they end up killing his mother, thus triggering Carl's return to Los Santos. After he returns to Grove Street, it is seen that Ryder isn't exactly happy with his return, as he had left the place without informing any of them., and would often display this act of hostility. People wonder why was Ryder so mean to CJ? It was because he was angry at CJ for abandoning Grove Street. If you noticed, this is the exact same attitude Sweet had with CJ early on. The only person who didn't care was Smoke, because he wanted CJ to stay out of Los Santos, so that he could take over GSF easily. You guys see my point? Both Sweet and Ryder were acting like this towards CJ because they were mad at him, because he left them when GSF needed him the most, but they eventually grew to respect CJ again. And at times, Ryder did throw insults at CJ and teased him for his driving, but it was all meant in fun, despite what people think. And on top of that, I've noticed that CJ likes being with Ryder more than anyone else. He just coudn't stand Ryder's drug habit. So now that we have Ryder's entire backstory and character explained, I will now come to the main point that a lot of people say that he was never meant to betray CJ and Sweet, and yes, despite seemingly doing so, he never betrayed GSF, because of many reasons. Many people say that just like Big Smoke, there are signs that Ryder would betray CJ, something which I firmly disagree. So let's get started on the roots of his betrayal: There are several seemingly hidden signs. Let's look at these and I will explain how these aren't actually hidden signs. So starting off with: 1)False proof of his betrayal:Now I will go to the main reason. No one mentioned Ryder during his betrayal scene. No one. It was like he was invisible. During the green sabre mission, after going to the intersection, he mentions Smoke conspiring with CRASH and Ballas, but doesn't mention Ryder. It's like Sweet didn't even know Ryder betrayed the crew. During King in Exile cutscene, the trio talk about Smoke, Tenpenny and Pulaski but not Ryder. Another proof of mine that Ryder didn't betray anyone was of a few reasons: i)Ryder lives in Grove Street, whereas Big Smoke lives in Idlewood ii)Ryder attended Beverly Johnson's funeral, whereas Big Smoke did not iii)During Drive Thru, Ryder also shares his knowledge of the presence of a green sabre during Beverly's murder, but Smoke tries to avoid the conversation. Also when the Ballas drive towards Grove Street in the same mission, CJ,Sweet and Ryder open fire at them, whereas Smoke does not. Ryder also gets confused and angry on why Smoke didn't shoot the Ballas. iv)All of Ryder's missions benefitted Grove Street, whereas Smoke's missions did not CJ, unfortunately, didn't give Ryder a chance to explain himself and killed him immediately, whereas for Big Smoke, he gave him plenty of time to explain why he betrayed Grove Street. 2)His aggressive behavior: It's just like I said in my character explanation, he was hostile towards CJ because he was mad at him for leaving Grove Street, but grew to respect him again 3)Ryder running away: When you wake the army veteran in Robbing Uncle Sam and when the cops invade the motel, he runs away. People consider this a sign of betrayal, but it's not. The reason he ran away was because was paranoid of the situations. During Reuniting the Families, he simply didn't trust the other sets, because they were hostile towards GSF when CJ was in Liberty City. The other sets were allies of the Ballas, and they would get drugs from Ballas. He was also scared of the heat they were getting in both the situations, that's why he runs away. 4)In House Party:During the mission House Party, the Ballas launch an attack on Grove Street, in retaliation for capturing Glen Park. Ryder says he will come with backup, but he never returns. Pro said this is a sign of betrayal, but I disagree, because who says he didn't return? I had to think about this very carefully. Ryder probably did return with backup, but just after the fight was over, because if he never returned, Sweet and CJ would question him where he disappeared? 5)Cesar's mention of Ryder: After CJ kills Ryder in the mission Pier 69, he was in a complete wrecked state for killing Ryder and was full of regret. And that's when Cesar tells him that Ryder once tried to bang Kendl. This is also a false sign, because Cesar was lying about Ryder to make Carl better, that's all. He didn't want CJ to think about Ryder anymore, because they already had a lot of other things to worry about. Think about it, if Ryder really did try to mess with Kendl, do you really think Sweet or Cesar would just ignore that? Ryder would have been dead immediately, we have all seen how overprotective Sweet is, just like how Tony Montana is overprotective of his sister Gina. The sad thing is this is the last time we ever hear about Ryder in the story, after this he vanishes from everyone's memory in the game. A lot of people are wondering to this day: why Ryder became an antagonist later when he wasn't supposed to betray anyone? That is an answer only Ryder's voice actor and Rockstar knows. Something must have gone bad between MC Eiht(Ryder's voice actor) and Rockstar, but what? Like I said, we will never know. They had an issue like this with Ray Liotta and Michael Hollick(voice actors of Tommy Vercetti and Niko Bellic, respectively), because they got underpaid. That's probably what ended up happening with MC Eiht, so he left the job and Rockstar returns the favor by killing his character. And finally I state my theory on how Ryder's character should have ended: During the Green Sabre mission, Ryder should have accompanied CJ to witness Big Smoke's betrayal, then both should have gone to help Sweet and Ryder dies in the crossfire. Like that, even though he dies, it would look like he gave his life for the Grove, which he actually did. That's how his character should have ended, in my opinion. He was a good character who went out as a traitor, thanks to bad writing. But I hope everyone enjoyed this character analysis. I wanted to make this because a lot of people didn't understand Ryder and his intentions for the Grove. I hope this explained everything and cleared all the misconceptions.
Your San Andreas lore videos are literally what a San Andreas Stories game could've been had it ever happened. We got LC Stories and even VC Stories but never San Andreas. A prequel to San Andreas would've been dope. It could've touched upon how the feud between Grove Street and the Ballas began, CJ's first interactions with CRASH and possibly end with CJ leaving for Liberty City after Brian's death.
@@SonicEXEProductions And that sucks too. A lot of the SA lore videos Professional does could've been answered with San Andreas Stories had not only Rockstar been interested in doing it, but if Ryder's VA like you said would come back. Did he feel he not get paid enough compared to other VA's? Heck, if he could find evidence within the game, Pro could make a lore video on how CRASH got started to begin with and why Tenpenny & Pulaski became rogue cops or if they were always like this.
@@indestructible247 well there is this other theory where that’s all the voice acting Rockstar wanted him to do but I don’t believe it, maybe he just had something to do and rockstar thought he quit?
The theory on MC Eiht (Ryder's VA) is false He's still in good terms with Rockstar and he did helped make GTA V's theme song Also, I can only assume Rockstar just don't have that much lines for Ryder and only for the Pier mission
One lil detail I like is how CJ questions attacking the Ballas at the funeral. He doesn't straight up protest the idea but it's clear he doesn't like it. He has principles, even when it comes to his enemies. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Big smoke busted the picture frame of momma Johnson in CJ's house by dropping the baseball bat on it, on purpose. That is when I knew Smoke was a traitor
I will never understand why Ryder is almost entirely ignored during the topic of Smoke's betrayal. Like why did he become an unimportant character all of a sudden? Also, Professional, Ryder's voice actor didn't really have any disputes with Rockstar. He was most likely just simply busier with music and Rockstar just simply had no idea what the character's future role should be since he would have no further dialogue.
Big Smoke always had a greedy reason to betray CJ. Even if Tenpenny is not in the picture, he would still do it for power, let alone find any chance of ruling Los Santos
Sweet in some way is similar to Lamar from GTA 5. Both have this mentality "you grow up in the hood you die in the hood". Both give CJ and Franklin a lot of crap only difference is that Franklin actually calls Lamar out on his crap. Both value loyalty like Lamar may be an idiot but he's not selfish he's not a traitor he has your back throughout and Sweet may be a pain in the neck at times but he's trustworthy and he's not easily corrupted. When it comes to GTA characters that are trustworthy Sweet and Lamar are on that list.
lamar and sweet aren't that trustworthy. i mean sure they won't ever betray their friends but they simply can not be trusted with making sure they aren't walking into a trap because they are too foolish
@@indestructible247 you got that right I mean while Big Smoke was plotting behind his back Sweet suspected nothing and Lamar each time he trusted Stretch he walked into a trap and nearly got himself killed each time then Franklin had to save the day each time so yeah they are foolish.
And also kind of another similar thing too is that when Smoke gets extremely paranoid and making Kendal a target, that was also similar to Salvatore and his paranoia when he almost had Toni killed in the cutscene Driving Mr. Leone and in gta 3 when he tried to have Claude killed even though he was never a threat at all.
Smoke had Kendl be a target too because she was a loose end. Simple as that. She was always going to be in contact with her brothers. Smoke couldn't risk anything.
Small tip for knowing then someone is about to betray you in real life. If they are suddenly starting to be disrepectful and questioning you. Especially if it happens in a tough situation you could sense that someone is going to betray you and leave you to die.
@@sirfanatical8763 With guys like Dimitri it's simple. He is a crime boss. It's obvious that I can't trust him. If I was Niko I would not trust no one in this world. Besides guys can't be that good manipulators. It's easy for me to tell when they might betrayal me. Like they would like me to do something bad with them and I already know that I can't trust him. I don't trust many people because I live in dangerous world where someone can hurt me but I'm not gonna let them. I am smarter.
@@BLACKSTA361 I can't give you much on that bc I'm usually the one to fuck up relationships. But I guess if there is a new man in her life and she starts displaying the signs mentioned above I would be worried.
What about at the end where smoke says " look at you, you got the whole world. I ain't got no regrets." Does this not mean that smoke had in some way knew what cj had been up to?
Frank Tenpenny does enjoy being rough on the gangsters in Los Santos. He knows he can directly confront them knowing they cant do anything back at him. For Dimtri, he seemed to avoid any direct confrontation with Niko after his betrayal of Niko.
It is also hinted at multiple times especially in the beginning that big smoke killed cjs mom for example when cj entered his family home after coming to Grove for this first time in years,Smoke was in the kitchen doing lord knows what,And when he told cj to go meet with the family at the cemetery,he throws his bat on cj's mother portrait in which Rockstar hints early on big smoke would betray Cj and possibly killed his mom.Also multiple times early on during the game whenever cj tried asking sweet about what happened to his mom and smoke was with them,he always tried to change the subject.
@@RyanRodrigues maybe if u used your brain you would realise that I was simply giving my own thoughts on what I know,I made this comment before watching this video and 30 people agreed with me,bring your negativity elsewhere.
Another thing about the Ballas drive by on the Grove Street OG’s is that Big Smoke may have been buying time for the Ballas with the long order to roll up on them because they were out in a corner spot and totally exposed to the street where they could’ve been easily killed.
Also, he would hardly put himself in the firing line. Those ballas either didn’t know about Smoke, or got fed up waiting for Smoke to pop the Johnson brothers so they decided to try and take them all out, even if it meant killing Smoke
These lore videos are very helpful and give me a lot of information that I didn't even know about. Thank you Pro, for giving us your amazing lore videos and keep up the good work.
Amazing video. You really broke down his character. When I played the game for the first time, I was young and naive, so I just thought Tennpenny forced him to do it because he was originally on our side, was nice to us, and the memes online at the time. But playing through the game more times, I realized more and more that he did it for himself. And your video made me realize what a terrible person he was. He sold his old friends out to get rich, powerful, and famous by destroying the hood through crack and joining the Ballas. He looked out for himself, had no loyalty or respect to anyone besides himself, and used people for his own personal gain, like he did to Ryder and tried to do to CJ. And the fact hints were spread out from the very beginning and are easy for players to miss if they don’t break it down was an incredible detail the devs put in.
57:51 I know I’m 6 months late but I just wanted to say I do appreciate your use of cutscenes to reinforce your statements . It’s a great way for the average viewer to understand your points and to understand the characters you are analyzing . Keep up the great work 👍🏾
Aside from GTA 6, Rockstar needs to put out San Andreas Stories, where we play as Brian and see his perspective of Grove Street Families and who Beverly Johnson really was. All of the years when CJ was in Liberty City to see what Brian was like, how he did things, and the events that led up to his death along with his mother.
1:11:20 I knew about this about Big Smoke throwing his bat at the photo frame that this looks disrespectful. By the way, if you're still wondering about why CJ returns working for Tenpenny after Toreno got his problems under control. I'm pretty sure CJ was planning to get rid of Pulaski before he can kill Tenpenny sooner because the way how he said in the final mission "so was it like, Tenpenny? All alone. Nobody got your back. Sucks, huh?". That's my theory about it.
This video was just great. I never thought about how Ryder's death affected Smoke but it makes sense. It shows that Ryder's death had consequences long after he was killed. Smoke was a very manipulative character. I agree with you that he didn't regret his betrayal - he coulda stopped while he was ahead and tried somehow to redeem himself or say that he is sorry to Carl. But did not, and only cared about his legacy. Sweet may be rude, but I agree with you, he's a great character and is extermely underrated. Sweet has this truth in the face mentality - sometimes he can be a jerk but other times he expresses how he feels. He didn't want the Johnsons to abandon their home to ruin while their friends did the same. This is why he was disgusted with CJ. He felt that Carl had an obligation to the hood. And in my view, he was right, as Carl was a Grove member like Sweet, and everything they've suffered would be for nothing if they abandoned it. Their friends' demise will be in vain. CJ, in the end, showed remorse for his actions because he was hurt over Smoke's betrayal, but realized he was an opportunistic scumbag. I think Smoke is a great character, but at the same time, I think his betrayal, as well as Ryder's because they shared an equal rule in Smoke's actions, are the worst in the GTA Series. Dimitri was never Niko's friend like you said. And on top of that, Smoke and Ryder were CJ and Sweet's friends since they were kids. Also, I think Tenpenny and Smoke wanted to weaken the Russian Mafia because they could demand more money. They were still a key part of the operation. They couldn't afford to have an organized crime syndicate potentially taking over their business. Also, Kane is likely one of the Ballas involved in Beverly's death. It's possible that Tenpenny feared that if he was caught, he would have betrayed him and told Sweet of Tenpenny and Smoke's plans. Also, Little Weseal was likely convinced by Tenpenny to betray the gang. Also, I sort of doubt that Tenpenny has set up the Families. Tenpenny likely planned to use Carl against the case members early on, as he knew that it was being built because Pendelbury was threating to talk. This is why C.R.A.S.H underwent this huge journey across San Andreas, to keep moving. They are mentioned to have disappeared during a WCTR news broadcast as of Meat Business, so they were on the run. My guess is that the police were onto the Families and wanted to stop them, or the ambush was set up by Smoke ratting out the gang. It's possible that apart from being disgraced for abandoning his friends, that Tenpenny wanted to ensure the Johnsons' survival so that they'd use Sweet as leverage over Carl and could use Carl as a hitman or as a hired gun for everything they need because he'd be at no position to turn against them. I sort of expected a Ryder Lore Video but this was a great video nonetheless. I actually didn't expect this.
Sweet wasn't a bad character at all. He just had poor character development that made him lose sympathy towards the game's end. He's an empathetic character, but sure as hell ain't sympathetic as a person in the slightest. Meanwhile, Ryder should have just been killed during the Green Sabre mission, because his betrayal was not written well at all.
@@waters228_91 I think he is sympathetic when you look at the situation from his view. CJ left him and their family, his friends betrayed him and his gang was almost destroyed and he was imprisoned and had nothing. He became broken and had no idea that Carl has freed him. Carl also never gave Sweet any credit for looking after his mother and sister. Sweet felt that Carl was being selfish due to how he abandoned the family before, when they needed him the most. And he was right. The only thing I disagree with him is that he believes that the hood is their home and their only home, but also, I can understand his annoyance with Carl wanting to leave it because of their principles and commitment to the hood. Sweet felt that if they leave the hood for money, they'd become what they hated. Yes, Carl's businesses are better than Smoke's, no question about it, but Sweet felt that abandoning your home that you swore to protect for money makes you a sellout, especially given Carl's loyalty to the gang early on.
@@justsomeguy747 Correction: His BACKGROUND is sympathetic. There's a difference. He lost that personal sympathy when he decided to behave so ungrateful towards CJ following his release from prison. Okay, so he had every right to call CJ out in the beginning of the story due to what he did five years ago. I did understand that, and I was with Sweet that one time. But then he behaves so childishly over the hood following his release from prison, and then he becomes hypocritical when right after he calls CJ out for trying to abandon the hood, he gives up on the hood himself and decides to smoke crack a mission afterwards. And then he tells CJ "You been yapping about what you done did... ", even though CJ never even got to tell him what he done did. All I am saying is that Sweet should have been better developed towards the end by actually owning up to his own mistakes and making a compromise with CJ. That way, Sweet would learn his lesson to not drag his brother away from his success and learn to be a better leader. Missed opportunity.
@@justsomeguy747 No matter how childish Sweet actually is, there's at least some empathy towards his past. I'll give him that. Beside, Lance Vance is even worse as a brother.
Ryder is always my favorite character mostly because his is mostly base of Eazy-e and one of my favorites mission cutscenes is when Ryder is chilling in his back yard listening to ice cube -today is a good day.
Always hated when Sweet tells Carl it's not his business to get involved in Kendl's love life, yet he tells her (basically) to break up with Cesar because they (Families and Los Aztecas) are beefing. If it ain't CJ's business, it sure ain't Sweet's business either I do see his way though, CJ has been gone a long time and wants to intervene. To which Sweet kinda says his opinion isn't worth anything.
One question I've always had is who was leader of the Ballas before Smoke switched sides?, I've never understood how they allowed Smoke to become their boss when he was one of the leaders of the Ballas rivals before Crash got in the picture
@@theprofessional155 That makes sense looking at it but it stills leaves me with questions tho, Kane was the leader of the Front Yard Ballas so one would think that the leaders of the Kilo Tray and Rolling Heights Ballas would retaliate for that blow to the gang maybe im overthinking it
Here's some thing I read which is beta during the final part of the story, that helped me understand. To begin, after Ryder's death Smoke did cut everybody off including B-Dup, so that CJ never regretted sparing him. But he rejoined to Big Bear, key to helping in the search, who told CJ to go interrogate some Russian Mob gangster after taking over a bunch of turfs. So he did, and It's implied that gangster then told Smoke that CJ was looking for him because of Smoke's line "i knew you were coming". Smoke never planned to kill or confront Carl directly, but his actions screwed him among others up for good. Plus, he was able to get the Johnson brothers to Tenpenny which is who they wanted in the first place. Prior to all that, Smoke never told CJ what he told Ryder in the intro because CJ is the brother of target GSF leader Sweet.
Another observation about the “Drive Thru” mission. Everybody loves Big Smokes truly iconic, hilarious and legendary food order, but in hindsight I see it as a foreshadowing of Big Smokes deeper issues. That cutscene was symbolic of how Big Smoke was spending his life trying to fill a hole that had NO bottom. He attempted to fill that void with money, power, fame, “success”, or as we could see, food, but to no avail. In the end, all that food, money, fame, power and “success” led to his demise. The Big Smoke character (and San Andreas story in general) is the timeless cautionary tale about how if a man leaves his sinful desires and passions unchecked, it will wreak loss, sorrow, emptiness and eventual ruin on his life. This is in contrast to CJ, who was able to achieve what Big Smoke sought by committing to (at least in the realm of criminals) family, honor, principles, respect and hard work. This is what makes San Andreas in my opinion the best GTA of all time, and one of my personal favorite video games of all time.
Truth's line "That is the surest path to hell, man." describes really well my opinion about Big Smoke's greed and selfishness. He will for sure will get a deep hole in hell....
the poetry that smo0ke reads is actually from a poem named 'If' written by rudyard kipling, the original line is "If u can keep ur head when all about u is losing theirs and blaming it on u" really funny taht rockstar hid this
This game came out when I was 11 and it was not a good time in my life. CJ really served as a role model for me, his tenacity and doggedness. Starting over from nothing. The game's radio stations/soundtrack actually got me into music. Ended up becoming a musician because of that.
17:43 I think Drive-By with Smoke was a developer oversight. Smoke had no dialogue during the mission at all, only in the end, and even then, the line could've been used for anything. They probably just put Big Smoke there, and either meant for there to be more dialogue with smoke, but didn't record it, or the mission would only be with Ryder and Sweet, but added smoke sometime later in development either way.
He only has two lines, one of them is "We iced them, CJ, let's hunt down some more" and "Here, take this, go get yourself some beer". That's it, it feels like he was never meant to be there, even in the starting cutscene, only Ryder, CJ and Sweet are shown, no Big Smoke. I think it was probably a late addition to make unsuspecting/first time players have no/less clue(s) that Big Smoke is going to betray the gang.
Thanks for the explanation. I never followed GTA stories so closely but now i understand so much to the point i want play through GTA SA again. Good work 👏
I love how in-depth your explanation on lore video games like this. When I played this as a kid, I never really bothered trying to understand the story and more so just focused on having fun playing it, but this video made me understand and appreciate San Andreas much more than before. Thank you.
Everytime i watch professional lore videos I understand way more than when I am playing the game.Good job professional keep up with the great work love u
Big Smoke was very selfish and oportunistic to a point of using his own cheerful personality as a cover, as CJ mentions that even before the events of the game he "always talked shit", which hints at his betrayal but also let it slide that he somewhat regrets what he did to his friends and gang. Ryder felt like he wrote off to become an antagonist, because he didn't had any hints of becoming one: his missions always involve helping the Families directly and he scorn Big Smoke during the Los Santos missions. His jealously of CJ was more because a mix of reckless personality and drug use.
When big smoke says why he moved out of grove street , he is referring to his aunt . But we all know that he was referring to him staying next to ballas
Main reason I subscribed: The lore videos. YOU EXPLAIN THE LORE SO WELL! You made me understand stuff about Smoke's betrayal I never knew about! Great video, man. Keep up the good work on all of your content.
in reality when you join a gang they say we will have your back but once you get taken down or arrested they don't have your back and say "I never seen this person before in my life" screwing your over
It's interesting how respect vs money is a strong theme in this game's story and in most of the early missions you get respect for completing missions instead of money. I never thought about it this deeply because I was a teenager when I first played these games.
Such a good video mate wow. 10/10, One of few videos I've actually watched fully was brilliant to listen to. Any chance one day you could make a video on what you think happened post-ending? We never got San Andreas Stories but would like to see what you think took place thereafter and how CJ/Sweet died etc.
I think Smoke was trying to get Sweet on his side. And if he managed to do that, he could’ve told CRASH that Sweet is playing by their rules now. I do think he didn’t want to kill Sweet, but once Sweet didn’t budge, Big Smoke, in his mind, thought “well I tried.” Besides that, this was a very well researched video. San Andreas is the best GTA game imo
Dude the time and effort you put in these videos is perfect Id hope somewhere down the line rockstar sees all the support you’ve given them and have you apart of it
36:01 Big Smoke talked about "fake ass idiots who spent more time in drama school then they ever did pimpin or hustlin dope" is a reference to tupac being in drama school
They could’ve also had the Ballas who drive by through grove street accidentally killing CJs mom and CJ finds the perpetrators maybe in the epilogue and him and Sweet confront them. Even after the main storyline ended and maybe confront those demons and maybe Sweet would understand CJ and actually let CJ and Kendl live their lives separately
@@icyxi I don’t think that’s what he meant I think he meant that after the main story it would’ve been cool to have an epilogue scene or mission where they confront those demons that they’ve had all game and that Sweet would understand if Cj and Kendl lived their own lives outside of Grove Street
Thank you everyone for waiting so long for this. I am sorry it took so long to make. Thank you also to Rockstar for releasing the copyright claim on this video. Here are timestamps. If you enjoy this video please drop a like. It helps me make more content like this.
0:00 Intro
1:06 Big Smoke's Personality
3:47 Why Does Smoke Come Back In Reuniting The Families
5:50 Times When Smoke Questioned Sweet's Leadership
11:10 Big Smoke Shutting Ryder Up On CJ's Moms Murder
13:20 Big Smoke Refusing To Shoot The Ballas
14:15 What Big Smoke Is Really Saying
17:09 Why Smoke Shoots At The Ballas In Drive By
17:57 Smoke's Missions Aren't Grove Street Related
19:15 The Russian Mafia's Role
23:46 Smoke's Betrayal In Green Sabre
29:09 Tenpenny's Role
30:00 The Loco Syndicate's Role
32:25 Toreno's Role And The CIA
32:50 The Los Santos Crack Empire's Role
33:41 How Big Smoke Hid His Crack Money
41:40 Ryder's Role
42:12 Why Tenpenny Had Kane Killed
44:32 Why Tenpenny Caused The Police Raid
47:32 Why Ryder's Death Broke Smoke
50:18 Why Tenpenny Choose Smoke Not Sweet
53:55 Was Smoke Really Forced To Betray CJ?
1:00:55 Why CJ's Mom Was Killed
1:04:25 Why Tenpenny Killed Officer Pendlebury
1:08:25 Did Smoke And Ryder Know About CJ's Mom?
1:09:13 Why Was Smoke In CJ's House?
1:11:20 Why Smoke Used CJ
1:11:43 Did Smoke Regret Betraying CJ?
No problem,been waiting for long but it was worth it, love your GTA Chinatown series
Thnx for the video pro!
Please don’t apologize. Take your time AND your rest. Good job as always, professional.
Thx for the video. At least you took your time, you don't need to apologize
i disagree with your statement on big smoke and ryder, let me put it this way, would you stay and risk dying and not making it out, or would you leave then come back to help your homies out? Sweet said strictly one rep per set, chances are if everyone stayed the more likely ryder smoke CJ and sweet would have died, We all know CJ stays behind, Big Smoke And Ryder had a choice to stay and risk being killed or leave draw attention away from the building and then return for CJ and Sweet. Big Smoke could have been worried and returned for CJ And Sweet but Ryder Had no obligation to return.
“Im from the streets. Everyone has a street in front of their house.” That killed me 😂😂😂
I'm "from the streets" too, but not like that. My neighborhood isn't that ghetto. It's not that much of a shit hole. You don't see me whining about it.
Manny Escuella: Did someone say 'streets'?
@@ashhabimran239 Jimmy De Santa: SHUT UP
"you down?! you mark ass bitch, trick, bustah, fool?!" haha so good! XD
I know I am :)
Lazlow calling OG Loc Ogg Lock is the funniest thing ever.😂😂😂
I love to make fun of fools like OG Loc.
@@icyxi no one cares
@@icyxi as you should
@@indestructible247bri gay boo
He sounds like wisespade7
Personally, I always interpreted Smoke as the guy who got what he wanted only to realize later on what it cost him, but he kept moving forward because there was no going back.
That is exactly his character he wanted money fame and power but in the end it made him empty he wasn't even surprised to see Cj come kill him at the end of the game he didn't care about it either he had his empire but wasn't happy
@@theoutsiderjess1869 He almost seemed happy CJ was there to do that.
A rather good interpretation. The flow took him too far until there was no way out, only forward. From this angle, we can theorize that he did realize that taking this opportunity cost him everything but by that point it was impossible to slow down or bail. He was always out for himself and found himself alone at the top, I guess. Then it aaaaall came crashing down.
Yup man it was the money that led him to even think about doing the most backstabbing type of acts against his own gang n he knew that if potential rivals r down for crack money he would fit right in wit a lot of them that turned their back on the grove, he was always out for his self n then when somebody tries to expose him he brings up something else like the pro says so that's says way more about him that we know hes trying to hide never fully understood until I saw this vid which pro did a fantastic job at explaining BS's morale
Hes like Eren Yeager
Big smoke's betrayal might be the worst one in the series but at the end everyone really did remember his name
He got his wish.
San Andreas is also the best GTA.
It feels the worst because he is CJ childhood friend.
@@element021993 Gta sa and 4 are my favorite I can’t decide which I love more
I remember every important characters and Big Smoke was important.
I feel bad that Ryder was carried into this mess by Smoke, probably Rockstar just wanted to humiliate the VA for leaving early and destroyed his character. You can see that he cares about the gang and acts like Sweet, calling CJ for his disloyalty and wanted to strengthen them by finding better guns for Emmet. At least they could’ve killed him at the ambush in Green Saber mission, give us a bigger reason to hate Smoke
They also did that to Burt Reynolds. He played Avery Carrington in Vice City. They killed off his character in Liberty City Stories in a stupid way. He doesn't even say anything.
@@theprofessional155 That annoyed me as well. Killing off his character was one thing. They could’ve allowed him to have dialogue.
@@theprofessional155Wow really? I didn’t play LC stories yet but his character was kinda small compared to Ryder. I guess Trevor also got the same treatment from the Smugglers Run beginning cutscene with Ron saying he “thought of himself too big and going all Vinewood”, guess Steven Oggs hatred for being a “cartoon” was much earlier than that drama
They did Ryder dirty 😡
Well funnily enough Ryder's VA would be back in Rockstar's good terms when he came back as a radio guest in GTA V and his music appeared on the West Coast Classics.
As much as I hated Tenpenny, he did have a point, just because you've known someone for a long time, it don't mean they'll stay loyal to their friends. Todays friends could be your enemies tomorrow and I'd say that this game shows that quite well.
Fact
Quite a sad truth, isn't it?
Ryder's Voice actor said awhile ago he didn't quit and that he actually did all the lines that Rockstar gave him
Yeah, and the fact is made more obvious when you realise he returned in GTA V to lend his voice as a guest on the Lab radio station and allowed 4 of his songs to be licensed on West Coast Classics.
Then it can be concluded that his character was simply rushed
He also returned for the GTA SA Introduction video and then GTA 5
@@devangnivatkar2649 The SA introduction video was made during SA development... not after. There was a special edition of the game upon release that included the introduction in an extra DVD.
@@NicolasChiribelo Except it wasn't. It shipped first with the PS2 Special Edition, the version that was put out after Hot Coffee fiasco. This is the M rated version, instead of AO, as it scrubbed all the Hot Coffee content from the data and model files
Smoke chose chicken, knowing that the Ballas were gonna pull up on them at Cluckin' Bell. I also feel like he deliberately took a massive order to perfectly time the arrival of the Ballas
SMOKE WAS ORDERING EVERYONES FOOD, THAT BIG ORDER WASNT ALL OF SMOKES BUT YEAH I DO FEEL HE SET THE WHOLE THING UP BECAUSE HE DIDNT SHOOT BACK AND HE WAS COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO EAT HIS MEAL WITH ALL THAT GOING ON
I agree with Clay. Because an order that long can take up some time for the ballas to show up. More than likely he had contacted some time before and ordered to do another drive by. But, due to the incompetence of the Ballas again, couldn't get the job done like they were told to.
@@HeavyWeapon858 BUT SMOKE ASKED EVERYONE WHAT THEY WANTED TO EAT AND ORDERED WHAT THEY ASKED FOR, NOT SAYING HE DIDN'T SET THEN UP JUST SAYING HE ORDERED WHAT THEY ASKED FOR
@@KyyaJoon Hey bro, you should probably turn off your caps lock. Not to mention, you must've not been paying attention to the cut scene. Everyone else ordered food for themselves and they were perplexed because of Big Smoke's order. Someone I know that is even bigger than big smoke has ordered that amount of food for themselves. Tbh it's a disgusting amount of food to eat.
@@HeavyWeapon858 NO THEY DIDNT, AND I DONT HAVE TO DO NOTHING, MAYBE YOU MISSED THE CUT SCENE BECAUSE HE ORDERED EVERYONE'S FOOD. GO BACK AND WATCH IT FOR YOURSELF
SMOKE ORDERED 3 MEALS FOR HIMSELF AND THE REST WERE RYDAS, CJS AND SWEATS
Can't ever get tired of GTA lore videos. I could stay up all day watching them.
True dat
Faxx
Same
I listen to these when I make beats
Factssssss
The way tenpenny disregarded Pulaski when he called him pal just show how little care and respect tenpenny has for him and people that work with him cj was right when he told pulaski that tenpenny is just going to kill him off considering he left him alone with cj and hernandez who almost jumped him but got shot giving cj a window to kill pulaski
Yep, even though Big Smoke was all for himself and willing to sabotage his friendships, Tenpenny was willing to do the same, but at higher risks. Tenpenny would’ve definitely threw Pulaski under the bus once he got whatever he wanted, he just needed some leverage that’ll help him up until he was satisfied.
@@giasaleen2 It's stupid. These criminals really think they can rule the world without friends? Ha ha ha ha ha. I'm sorry but they are funny.
Tenpenny makes Big Smoke look like an angel
Since Pulaski is the same scumbag. I think that Tenpenny would not betray him.
nah, there's zero honor in business like that Pulaski would've gotten the same treatment tenpenny is a raging narcissist he's only out for self-gain. @@Carissa-KsiezniczkaCalixu
Man, his name is not The Professional for nothing… he’s the GOAT 🐐‼️ he inspired me to start my channel too!
Keep up your work pro
You lot are the flies that surround the garbage 😂
@@Serenity_Express so are you , or you wouldn't be replying to the comment
Shh! Keep it down over there.
@@Serenity_Express speak for yourself
“Everybody blast fools first and ask questions second.” That line somehow is more dark today then it was when the game released
I wish Ryder's, Niko's, and Tommy's voice actor's never quit. Ryder and CJ would have teammed up together in the end, taking down all the Ballas and Vagos.
Maybe in Rebot.
Tommy vercettis voice actor never quit if im correct, rockstar just thought that he was a pain in the ass to work with
Even CJ's VA hates rockstar now
@@GuyElbaz_king_of_the_worldye that was 3 yrs ago they got into a beef but ye it's crazy how it went down
MC Eiht (Ryder's VA) quitting is false
He's still in good terms with Rockstar and he did help make GTA V's theme song. And used some of his songs in the game including his song "Straight Up Menace" (which was also used in the movie Menace to Society) in the West Coast Classics Radio Station.
This game is 19 years old and Patrick is still teaching me things I didn’t know about.
Of course his name is Patrick this red haired white boy who thinks he knows gang culture from his suburbs in the hills 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Personally I think that when smoke said “I had no choice” he didn’t meant that he was forced, he meant that his entire live he lived in poverty, without opportunity and barely scrapping by, he might be under boss of a gang… but the gang is extremely poor, sweet was happy how he was but smoke wasn’t willing to live his entire live like that. Even when he went to sweet in the introduction to convince him to deal in drugs he says “this is the biggest money making opportunity that guys like us will ever see”
Basically, smoke choice was either to continue being poor for the rest of his life and watch how the gang he leads eventually fades, or get rich and leave his mark on the world.
I think that smoke wanted sweet to be part of the operation, but tempenny knew that would end in failure, and he was right because sweet didn’t had interest in dealing in drugs. Tempenny simply wanted smoke to kill him and get it over with, but smoke would rather want to sweet to join in, so tempenny got more and more angry over his failure of killing sweet already. At least he got ryder on the conspiracy.
I think smoke never tried to convince CJ because he wasn’t leader on the gang yet, he was just trying to get the respect back, so would be a waste of time to recruit him. Plus CJ shares the same anti drug mindset of his brother, so it would be imposible to convince him either, specially because he tries to gain the approval of sweet, so dealing in drugs was out of tue question for CJ.
Since you mention it, I think GTA SA is about what you're talking about.
Sweet is a person with principles, but he is a defender of the status quo.
For Sweet, selling drugs is wrong, but stealing and committing other crimes is fine and he considers it a more or less honest way of living.
Big Smoke is at the other end of the rope.
Smoke is Machiavellian, for him everything is fine as long as you can get something out.
Despite seeming like someone very intelligent, it seems that he did not realize that the true antagonist, Tenpenny, only used him to make him the "boss" of a criminal empire that, ironically, is a prisoner of his own empire. Alone and with no one to trust.
Sweet tells OG Loc to study and get ahead as a person, but it is advice that does not apply to himself, he believes that ghetto life is fine.
Big Smoke believes, instead, in finding your "potential" and exploiting it, seizing every opportunity to get ahead even if it means harming others, including friends.
CJ knows that ghetto life is not life. Stealing to feed your family is noble up to a point, yes, but it's not something to be proud of or brag about.
CJ is not a saint, he knows that, but life is like that, sometimes you have to make difficult decisions that will not always be good in the literal sense of the words.
As they say around there, you can't make a cake without breaking some eggs.
But CJ also knows that you can't go through life playing the opportunist all your life. Taking the fast path can get you to the finish line, but it can also cause you to lose control and crash on the road.
That's why I think that out of the three, CJ's philosophy of life is the best in the context of the game.
You can't live in the ghetto forever, not like that. But you also can't live like a treacherous and opportunistic rat and expect everything to work out.
You have to get ahead in your life in the best way possible, with the means you have, and with your friends and family and your very high principles.
I would do many things to be rich but I am not a fool like Smoke. I would not betray my friends. Betrayal is stupid game for stupid people.
@@icyxi i'm sure if you and your friends were caught stealing someone's shit, you would completely break down and sell your friends out. don't act like you wouldn't sell your friends out for some reason especially if they were gang bangers or drug dealers. i have never been in the game but i know damn sure i would snitch on my friends to get the heat off me
@@indestructible247 I would never live like that because I am not stupid to live like that.
@@icyxi lets say you were born into that life. wouldn't you betray your criminal friends to leave it or at least live a nicer life?
Why do you think that Big Smoke initially said to CJ, when they saw the SWAT teams ambush the Jefferson motel "Carl, get back in, we outta here baby!". Was Smoke thinking about getting CJ killed someplace else, or was he tinking about getting back to the hood and letting Sweet get killed and then making CJ the gang's new leader and trying to convince him to enter the drug business, like he wanted Sweet to do in the Introduction? Or was it just a developer oversight?
Your options entail either killing off the protagonist, or killing off Sweet. Doing either would probably have ruined the story, by removing very important characters and "snitching" on Smoke's betrayal. The plan, as it seems, was for the betrayal to be subtle for first-time players. Now, i cannot make a in-universe explanation, but my point is that your ideas would've ruined the story.
I think Smoke came back to rescue CJ because knowing the capabilities of CJ, he would easily get him and his brother to safety, it would have drawn major suspicion to Ryder and Smoke.
I can see where Sweet getting killed there is a more viable option. I disagree with the comment that says it ruins the plot.
If Sweet gets killed then CJ now spends the rest of the story finding out how the police got tipped off, and what Smoke knew about it.
I think it would enhance the story, BUT Sweet’s character moves the plot along. Without Sweet, Carl doesn’t have an incentive to return to Los Santos except to kill Tenpenny and Smoke.
After killing them, he’d go back to Las Venturas and run the casinos.
No shit dude changing the story would change the story? Wow. Crazy @@EdyAlbertoMSGT3
1 hour of GTA San Andreas lore content, sounds like heaven.
Hey victor how are you doing today
@@wayne30-f7h I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking.
exactly
It's one of the heavens.
90 minutes of lore by the professional? What a treat
👍🏽
Not really he repeated his video if you didn't notice
I hope this is sarcasm because his voice makes me think I have tinnitus
@@uglyclownface9216 cmon man, don't criticise people for something they cannot change. The video content is actually so good!
@@TragicGFuel but I did , and I will again. And when he tries to explain gang culture while he lives in the burbs . There’s so much In this video he tries to explain that is simply wrong because he just doesn’t understand. Like at the funeral argument where Ryder and smoke are in the background . That happens all the time where I’m from . You mind your own business it’s not their place to speak they’re not whispering they’re minding their own business
I knew something was up with Big Smoke after when I did the mission "Drive Thru" I kept asking "why wasn't he shooting?" I always suspected he was hidding something and now after watching this video I understand why he did it.
It was righ there but it also felt plausible that he was "hungry" as well
I chalked it up as him eating at that moment
Only sweet was shooting but not Big Smoke or Ryder.
He kept tryna change the subject cuz of dat chicken
@@jasonrandom372 ryder was shooting
I played San Andreas multiple times to understand Big Smoke’s betrayal, but there are some parts that confuses me and luckily I finally understand it thanks to your lore video. You’re amazing, Pro!!!
T Bone preventing Toreno from shooting CJ only to threaten CJ as a joke in the next mission I think T-Bone was impressed and didn't want CJ dead for a minor character he is interesting and kind of terrifying
Kinda disappointed that T-bone didn’t have a huge role he was intimidating .. He was voiced by Kid Frost too which help cause he had a cool ass voice.
I always thought that if they had ever made a San Andreas Stories, T-Bone would have been the best candidate for protagonist. The game could have shown how he enforced the power of the Loco Syndicate across the whole state.
@@mattmedrala1947 Sounds tuff 🔥🔥🔥 Tho kid frost would have to be available for that.
T Bone I will say was intimidating n knew cj had connections to keep him alive but if he tried to kill him it wouldnt be so gud
At least T-Bonis was smarter than Jizzis.
Hey Patrick, just wanted to thank you for the effort you go for your Lore videos, playthroughts etc. Your channel (in my opinion) is like a classic channel, one that you appreciate due to the honesty of it and its creator. Take care buddy and have a great day.
I agree. I can deffo see Patrick becoming a go-to source for rockstar games lore. Such detail. 🤝💜
True
Definitelee
On top of that, most of his vids I've seen also have fundraisers. Not only is he insightful and entertaining, he's also charitable.
I know right? How he presents the lore in the videos makes it so interesting
34:41 still cracks me up to this day lmao, Lazlow calling OG Loc "OGLOCK" never gets old
That's how I called him first as well lol
Smoke's suspicious traits already evident since the introduction
Prolly why they didn't show it until after SA originally came out.
Ye I guess the introduction gave a better understanding of his plans n sweet seemed more in depth when he heard about smokes plans I think the introduction is more specific letting us know that they were involved
But as a kid playing the game back then i couldn't get most of those things notice
I'm not gonna lie, in the End of the Line cutscene when CJ sees smoke ranting on and on about "fuck the world", "I can't be touched" and even when CJ asks what happened to him and he just replies; "
What the fuck do you care?" To me it seems like Smoke was still struggling betraying his gang and his family in the deepest part of his heart.
I mean he was even crying and pleading with Tenpenny on the phone when he told him he had to kill Sweet, they grew up together.
Yeah he wanted everything to go his way, but I personally think that at the end of the day, his betrayal not only affected his family but also his moral standards as well. So he was probably hurt. It doesn't change what he did, but to me it just seems like he became part of the system, another statistic.
Maybe if Sweet cared more about getting his gang stronger. Smoke would never betray him.
Yup
@@princesslyna1029 Incorrect. It was either "get in the crack bussiness" or "stay where they are". Sweet lacked options, as his gang was falling apart due in-fighting combined with rival gangs choosing the crack and becoming powerful.
@@princesslyna1029 i disagree. as such, i disliked your comment.
Smoke talking about his success in the drug trade shows he has no remorse at all. Now, I want to give my analysis on a major SA character. Anyone who enjoyed my analysis, please drop a like so that even Pro sees this himself. I think I am the only commentator who has ever done a lore analysis, I hope everyone sees it including Pro. I had to play the game 3 times and watch the cutscenes and conversations very carefully to understand his intentions. So, my analysis is focused on Ryder, one of CJ's childhood friends who he ends up betraying(or so it seems). I will be explaining what I mean about this, through the questions that a lot of people ask like: Ryder was never meant to be a main villain, other people support this claim by saying there are no hidden signs that he would backstab GSF, whereas other people contradict it by saying there are. After playing through the game, I've found out the things which look like hidden signs aren't actually so. So I am going answer all the misconceptions about Ryder. So let's get started:
Ryder was born somewhere in 1967 or 1968 in Ganton at Grove Street. During his early days, he met CJ, Sweet, Big Smoke and Jeffrey(OG Loc), and they became the best of friends. Ryder joined the Families gang at some point and became a drug dealer when he was 10 years old. He had once assaulted a teacher for wearing purple, the color representing Ballas, GSF's main rivals, which shows his wild and unpredictable nature, even though he claims he was too intelligent for it, as he was using drugs, which shows he was also delusional at times. Speaking of drugs, we see that in Ryder's missions: we see him looking for something called "water". Many people are wondering what water is. The water here, is a slang term used for the drug PCP, which shows he has also been using drugs apart from selling it. Many people think that GSF do not sell drugs, which is actually false. They do sell drugs which are less lethal, like marijuana and PCP. But they don't profit much from it, and even Big Smoke tries to convince Sweet to start selling more potent drugs, like crack cocaine, which the Ballas do. But Sweet's morals prevents him from doing so, as he believes crack destroys neighborhoods, which he is right. Ryder eventually worked his way up in the gang and become one of Sweet's closest allies. By 1987, the crack influence in Los Santos had increased and GSF stated to decline, whereas the Ballas and a new gang, the Vagos, got rich from selling crack. CJ and Sweet's younger brother, Brian died in a Ballas attack. While it is unknown how he died, the only thing known was he was seen last with CJ. Sweet blamed CJ for Brian's death, and a disappointed CJ leaves Los Santos to start a new life in Liberty City. At some point between 1987 and 1992, Big Smoke tries to convince Sweet to start selling crack, but he refuses again, which is noticed by Tenpenny, the head of a corrupt police force called CRASH, who wanted to open a massive drug ring in Los Santos, but to do so, he needed the help of all three street gangs: Ballas, Vagos and the GSF. Since Tenpenny knew Sweet was against crack, he convinces Smoke to get GSF into the crack business after he gets Sweet killed, which Smoke agrees to, as he was the underboss. After this, Smoke visits Ryder, whom he tries to convince to join the crack trade with him. Ryder seemingly agrees to it, but I don't think he was actually ready to do so, because he utterly despised crack, which he confirms, after they fail to recruit B Dup. But eventually, Tenpenny sends three Ballas to Grove Strret in a green sabre to do a drive-by and kill Sweet. But they end up killing his mother, thus triggering Carl's return to Los Santos. After he returns to Grove Street, it is seen that Ryder isn't exactly happy with his return, as he had left the place without informing any of them., and would often display this act of hostility. People wonder why was Ryder so mean to CJ? It was because he was angry at CJ for abandoning Grove Street. If you noticed, this is the exact same attitude Sweet had with CJ early on. The only person who didn't care was Smoke, because he wanted CJ to stay out of Los Santos, so that he could take over GSF easily. You guys see my point? Both Sweet and Ryder were acting like this towards CJ because they were mad at him, because he left them when GSF needed him the most, but they eventually grew to respect CJ again. And at times, Ryder did throw insults at CJ and teased him for his driving, but it was all meant in fun, despite what people think. And on top of that, I've noticed that CJ likes being with Ryder more than anyone else. He just coudn't stand Ryder's drug habit. So now that we have Ryder's entire backstory and character explained, I will now come to the main point that a lot of people say that he was never meant to betray CJ and Sweet, and yes, despite seemingly doing so, he never betrayed GSF, because of many reasons. Many people say that just like Big Smoke, there are signs that Ryder would betray CJ, something which I firmly disagree. So let's get started on the roots of his betrayal: There are several seemingly hidden signs. Let's look at these and I will explain how these aren't actually hidden signs. So starting off with:
1)False proof of his betrayal:Now I will go to the main reason. No one mentioned Ryder during his betrayal scene. No one. It was like he was invisible. During the green sabre mission, after going to the intersection, he mentions Smoke conspiring with CRASH and Ballas, but doesn't mention Ryder. It's like Sweet didn't even know Ryder betrayed the crew. During King in Exile cutscene, the trio talk about Smoke, Tenpenny and Pulaski but not Ryder. Another proof of mine that Ryder didn't betray anyone was of a few reasons:
i)Ryder lives in Grove Street, whereas Big Smoke lives in Idlewood
ii)Ryder attended Beverly Johnson's funeral, whereas Big Smoke did not
iii)During Drive Thru, Ryder also shares his knowledge of the presence of a green sabre during Beverly's murder, but Smoke tries to avoid the conversation. Also when the Ballas drive towards Grove Street in the same mission, CJ,Sweet and Ryder open fire at them, whereas Smoke does not. Ryder also gets confused and angry on why Smoke didn't shoot the Ballas.
iv)All of Ryder's missions benefitted Grove Street, whereas Smoke's missions did not
CJ, unfortunately, didn't give Ryder a chance to explain himself and killed him immediately, whereas for Big Smoke, he gave him plenty of time to explain why he betrayed Grove Street.
2)His aggressive behavior: It's just like I said in my character explanation, he was hostile towards CJ because he was mad at him for leaving Grove Street, but grew to respect him again
3)Ryder running away: When you wake the army veteran in Robbing Uncle Sam and when the cops invade the motel, he runs away. People consider this a sign of betrayal, but it's not. The reason he ran away was because was paranoid of the situations. During Reuniting the Families, he simply didn't trust the other sets, because they were hostile towards GSF when CJ was in Liberty City. The other sets were allies of the Ballas, and they would get drugs from Ballas.
He was also scared of the heat they were getting in both the situations, that's why he runs away.
4)In House Party:During the mission House Party, the Ballas launch an attack on Grove Street, in retaliation for capturing Glen Park. Ryder says he will come with backup, but he never returns. Pro said this is a sign of betrayal, but I disagree, because who says he didn't return? I had to think about this very carefully. Ryder probably did return with backup, but just after the fight was over, because if he never returned, Sweet and CJ would question him where he disappeared?
5)Cesar's mention of Ryder: After CJ kills Ryder in the mission Pier 69, he was in a complete wrecked state for killing Ryder and was full of regret. And that's when Cesar tells him that Ryder once tried to bang Kendl. This is also a false sign, because Cesar was lying about Ryder to make Carl better, that's all. He didn't want CJ to think about Ryder anymore, because they already had a lot of other things to worry about. Think about it, if Ryder really did try to mess with Kendl, do you really think Sweet or Cesar would just ignore that? Ryder would have been dead immediately, we have all seen how overprotective Sweet is, just like how Tony Montana is overprotective of his sister Gina.
The sad thing is this is the last time we ever hear about Ryder in the story, after this he vanishes from everyone's memory in the game. A lot of people are wondering to this day: why Ryder became an antagonist later when he wasn't supposed to betray anyone? That is an answer only Ryder's voice actor and Rockstar knows. Something must have gone bad between MC Eiht(Ryder's voice actor) and Rockstar, but what? Like I said, we will never know. They had an issue like this with Ray Liotta and Michael Hollick(voice actors of Tommy Vercetti and Niko Bellic, respectively), because they got underpaid. That's probably what ended up happening with MC Eiht, so he left the job and Rockstar returns the favor by killing his character. And finally I state my theory on how Ryder's character should have ended: During the Green Sabre mission, Ryder should have accompanied CJ to witness Big Smoke's betrayal, then both should have gone to help Sweet and Ryder dies in the crossfire. Like that, even though he dies, it would look like he gave his life for the Grove, which he actually did. That's how his character should have ended, in my opinion. He was a good character who went out as a traitor, thanks to bad writing.
But I hope everyone enjoyed this character analysis. I wanted to make this because a lot of people didn't understand Ryder and his intentions for the Grove. I hope this explained everything and cleared all the misconceptions.
Your San Andreas lore videos are literally what a San Andreas Stories game could've been had it ever happened. We got LC Stories and even VC Stories but never San Andreas. A prequel to San Andreas would've been dope. It could've touched upon how the feud between Grove Street and the Ballas began, CJ's first interactions with CRASH and possibly end with CJ leaving for Liberty City after Brian's death.
I like your thinking, but then it would need Ryder, and the actor won’t come back due to pay
@@SonicEXEProductions And that sucks too. A lot of the SA lore videos Professional does could've been answered with San Andreas Stories had not only Rockstar been interested in doing it, but if Ryder's VA like you said would come back. Did he feel he not get paid enough compared to other VA's? Heck, if he could find evidence within the game, Pro could make a lore video on how CRASH got started to begin with and why Tenpenny & Pulaski became rogue cops or if they were always like this.
@@SonicEXEProductions Just use another actor, problem solved.
@@SonicEXEProductions it was not because of pay or any dispute whatsoever because he comes back to assist in making a song for gta 5
@@indestructible247 well there is this other theory where that’s all the voice acting Rockstar wanted him to do but I don’t believe it, maybe he just had something to do and rockstar thought he quit?
The theory on MC Eiht (Ryder's VA) is false
He's still in good terms with Rockstar and he did helped make GTA V's theme song
Also, I can only assume Rockstar just don't have that much lines for Ryder and only for the Pier mission
MC Eiht literally said that was all Rockstar asked him to do
@@wesleylayson9329 Exactly
He didn't shit talk Rockstar at all, and no mentions of him complaining about his pay
@@abluecar5375it was debunked on a Reddit post when someone asked him about it
then there's no reason for ryder's rushed story, lol.
they make it suck on purpose, with no foreshadowing about his betrayal at all.
They also use his song "Straight Up Menace" (which was also used in the movie Menace to Society) in the West Coast Classics Radio Station in GTA 5.
“Ohg Lock”😂😂 that radio interview always kills me 😭😭😭
“Everybody has a street in front of their house” 😂
One lil detail I like is how CJ questions attacking the Ballas at the funeral. He doesn't straight up protest the idea but it's clear he doesn't like it. He has principles, even when it comes to his enemies. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Additionally, Hernandez is the only one who goes by the book during the traffic stops we see. Weapon drawn, in cover behind the police cruiser's door.
He is also supposed to be the guy that told Cesar about Big Smoke’s Money The Yay Business of the Loco Syndicate and the Green Sabre at the dope spot
Exactly why pulaski and tenpenny murdered him.
Big smoke busted the picture frame of momma Johnson in CJ's house by dropping the baseball bat on it, on purpose. That is when I knew Smoke was a traitor
True foreshadowing
Oh stop the cap,you didn't see big smoke being a traitor the first time you played the Game
@@SupportGamin2024Anybody with a brain could tell there was something odd about Smoke.
I will never understand why Ryder is almost entirely ignored during the topic of Smoke's betrayal. Like why did he become an unimportant character all of a sudden?
Also, Professional, Ryder's voice actor didn't really have any disputes with Rockstar. He was most likely just simply busier with music and Rockstar just simply had no idea what the character's future role should be since he would have no further dialogue.
Exactly. You people really need to kill the rumors that MC Eiht had any disputes with R*. Because this has been confirmed otherwise.
So Rockstar clearly just ruined Ryder wow. Ruining things is Rockstar thing. They always needs to ruin something.
You picked the right lore video, scholar!
Lollll
Big Smoke always had a greedy reason to betray CJ. Even if Tenpenny is not in the picture, he would still do it for power, let alone find any chance of ruling Los Santos
I think he would let CJ join him. Sweet kinda caused his betrayal.
"a greedy reason"? how can a reason be greedy?
@@theyapconnoisseurbetraying someone for money and power is being greedy and selfish
Sweet in some way is similar to Lamar from GTA 5. Both have this mentality "you grow up in the hood you die in the hood". Both give CJ and Franklin a lot of crap only difference is that Franklin actually calls Lamar out on his crap. Both value loyalty like Lamar may be an idiot but he's not selfish he's not a traitor he has your back throughout and Sweet may be a pain in the neck at times but he's trustworthy and he's not easily corrupted. When it comes to GTA characters that are trustworthy Sweet and Lamar are on that list.
Maybe but being trustworthy doesn't make you good if you bring troubles on others like Sweet and Lamar.
They are both stupid. I kinda feel sorry for CJ. He is around by fools.
lamar and sweet aren't that trustworthy. i mean sure they won't ever betray their friends but they simply can not be trusted with making sure they aren't walking into a trap because they are too foolish
@@indestructible247 you got that right I mean while Big Smoke was plotting behind his back Sweet suspected nothing and Lamar each time he trusted Stretch he walked into a trap and nearly got himself killed each time then Franklin had to save the day each time so yeah they are foolish.
And also kind of another similar thing too is that when Smoke gets extremely paranoid and making Kendal a target, that was also similar to Salvatore and his paranoia when he almost had Toni killed in the cutscene Driving Mr. Leone and in gta 3 when he tried to have Claude killed even though he was never a threat at all.
Next you should do a lore video about Brian Johnson, CJ's dead brother explaining how he died
I always thought he died in a failed attack on ballas turf,there was a firefight and CJ left out of guilt.
"Maybe there's more to the story"
Smoke had Kendl be a target too because she was a loose end. Simple as that. She was always going to be in contact with her brothers. Smoke couldn't risk anything.
Like for real? Kendl is nobody. When I played in San Andreas I would forget about her if Cesar and CJ would not talk about her.
@@icyxi He was paranoid. Sometimes nobodies can make something out of nothing. Specially with the right contacts.
Small tip for knowing then someone is about to betray you in real life.
If they are suddenly starting to be disrepectful and questioning you. Especially if it happens in a tough situation you could sense that someone is going to betray you and leave you to die.
I have very good instict. I can see betrayal in people but thank you for advice. I am always open for tips.
@@icyxi how do you see betrayal?
@@sirfanatical8763 With guys like Dimitri it's simple. He is a crime boss. It's obvious that I can't trust him. If I was Niko I would not trust no one in this world. Besides guys can't be that good manipulators. It's easy for me to tell when they might betrayal me. Like they would like me to do something bad with them and I already know that I can't trust him. I don't trust many people because I live in dangerous world where someone can hurt me but I'm not gonna let them. I am smarter.
Yeah but could you see betrayal in advance for you're in live with someone for example your girlfriend?
@@BLACKSTA361 I can't give you much on that bc I'm usually the one to fuck up relationships. But I guess if there is a new man in her life and she starts displaying the signs mentioned above I would be worried.
What about at the end where smoke says " look at you, you got the whole world. I ain't got no regrets." Does this not mean that smoke had in some way knew what cj had been up to?
Yes remember how Cesar told cj that he was a hero in Ls and leone told ch that everyone was talking about what he did in liberty city
Frank Tenpenny does enjoy being rough on the gangsters in Los Santos. He knows he can directly confront them knowing they cant do anything back at him. For Dimtri, he seemed to avoid any direct confrontation with Niko after his betrayal of Niko.
Dimitri likely soils himself after Niko shows up on the Platypus.
It is also hinted at multiple times especially in the beginning that big smoke killed cjs mom for example when cj entered his family home after coming to Grove for this first time in years,Smoke was in the kitchen doing lord knows what,And when he told cj to go meet with the family at the cemetery,he throws his bat on cj's mother portrait in which Rockstar hints early on big smoke would betray Cj and possibly killed his mom.Also multiple times early on during the game whenever cj tried asking sweet about what happened to his mom and smoke was with them,he always tried to change the subject.
I also believe Smoke was waiting in the Johnson house to ambush Sweet when he came back from the funeral. He wasn't expecting CJ to show up.
@@MrBronx61 I always wondered wtf he was doing in there
@@philthyrich007 It's the most logical explanation I can think of.
This one and a half hour video explains the entire lore behind smoke and this guy is still saying Big Smoke killed CJ's Mom 🤦♂️
@@RyanRodrigues maybe if u used your brain you would realise that I was simply giving my own thoughts on what I know,I made this comment before watching this video and 30 people agreed with me,bring your negativity elsewhere.
Perfect lore video man! It makes someone appreciate the story in this game even more.
Another thing about the Ballas drive by on the Grove Street OG’s is that Big Smoke may have been buying time for the Ballas with the long order to roll up on them because they were out in a corner spot and totally exposed to the street where they could’ve been easily killed.
Prolly since they all had connections to tenpenny over that crack money
Also, he would hardly put himself in the firing line. Those ballas either didn’t know about Smoke, or got fed up waiting for Smoke to pop the Johnson brothers so they decided to try and take them all out, even if it meant killing Smoke
SMOKE WAS ORDERING EVERYONES FOOD, THAT WASNT ALL HIS ORDER
@@KyyaJoon Calm down, angry boy.
In the military that action of smoke not shooting would be considered treason.
These lore videos are very helpful and give me a lot of information that I didn't even know about. Thank you Pro, for giving us your amazing lore videos and keep up the good work.
Amazing video. You really broke down his character. When I played the game for the first time, I was young and naive, so I just thought Tennpenny forced him to do it because he was originally on our side, was nice to us, and the memes online at the time. But playing through the game more times, I realized more and more that he did it for himself. And your video made me realize what a terrible person he was. He sold his old friends out to get rich, powerful, and famous by destroying the hood through crack and joining the Ballas. He looked out for himself, had no loyalty or respect to anyone besides himself, and used people for his own personal gain, like he did to Ryder and tried to do to CJ. And the fact hints were spread out from the very beginning and are easy for players to miss if they don’t break it down was an incredible detail the devs put in.
57:51 I know I’m 6 months late but I just wanted to say I do appreciate your use of cutscenes to reinforce your statements . It’s a great way for the average viewer to understand your points and to understand the characters you are analyzing . Keep up the great work 👍🏾
Aside from GTA 6, Rockstar needs to put out San Andreas Stories, where we play as Brian and see his perspective of Grove Street Families and who Beverly Johnson really was. All of the years when CJ was in Liberty City to see what Brian was like, how he did things, and the events that led up to his death along with his mother.
THIS!!!!!
No. I would prefer new story with new characters.
Yall dont realise Brian was about 16-7yrs old at most when he was killed
@@icyxi who cares about you
The lore videos keep getting better and better! Keep at my dude you deserve it
1:11:20 I knew about this about Big Smoke throwing his bat at the photo frame that this looks disrespectful.
By the way, if you're still wondering about why CJ returns working for Tenpenny after Toreno got his problems under control. I'm pretty sure CJ was planning to get rid of Pulaski before he can kill Tenpenny sooner because the way how he said in the final mission "so was it like, Tenpenny? All alone. Nobody got your back. Sucks, huh?". That's my theory about it.
I always look forward to your lore videos because they are informative as always
This video was just great. I never thought about how Ryder's death affected Smoke but it makes sense. It shows that Ryder's death had consequences long after he was killed. Smoke was a very manipulative character. I agree with you that he didn't regret his betrayal - he coulda stopped while he was ahead and tried somehow to redeem himself or say that he is sorry to Carl. But did not, and only cared about his legacy. Sweet may be rude, but I agree with you, he's a great character and is extermely underrated. Sweet has this truth in the face mentality - sometimes he can be a jerk but other times he expresses how he feels. He didn't want the Johnsons to abandon their home to ruin while their friends did the same. This is why he was disgusted with CJ. He felt that Carl had an obligation to the hood. And in my view, he was right, as Carl was a Grove member like Sweet, and everything they've suffered would be for nothing if they abandoned it. Their friends' demise will be in vain. CJ, in the end, showed remorse for his actions because he was hurt over Smoke's betrayal, but realized he was an opportunistic scumbag. I think Smoke is a great character, but at the same time, I think his betrayal, as well as Ryder's because they shared an equal rule in Smoke's actions, are the worst in the GTA Series. Dimitri was never Niko's friend like you said. And on top of that, Smoke and Ryder were CJ and Sweet's friends since they were kids. Also, I think Tenpenny and Smoke wanted to weaken the Russian Mafia because they could demand more money. They were still a key part of the operation. They couldn't afford to have an organized crime syndicate potentially taking over their business. Also, Kane is likely one of the Ballas involved in Beverly's death. It's possible that Tenpenny feared that if he was caught, he would have betrayed him and told Sweet of Tenpenny and Smoke's plans. Also, Little Weseal was likely convinced by Tenpenny to betray the gang. Also, I sort of doubt that Tenpenny has set up the Families. Tenpenny likely planned to use Carl against the case members early on, as he knew that it was being built because Pendelbury was threating to talk. This is why C.R.A.S.H underwent this huge journey across San Andreas, to keep moving. They are mentioned to have disappeared during a WCTR news broadcast as of Meat Business, so they were on the run. My guess is that the police were onto the Families and wanted to stop them, or the ambush was set up by Smoke ratting out the gang. It's possible that apart from being disgraced for abandoning his friends, that Tenpenny wanted to ensure the Johnsons' survival so that they'd use Sweet as leverage over Carl and could use Carl as a hitman or as a hired gun for everything they need because he'd be at no position to turn against them. I sort of expected a Ryder Lore Video but this was a great video nonetheless. I actually didn't expect this.
Sweet wasn't a bad character at all. He just had poor character development that made him lose sympathy towards the game's end. He's an empathetic character, but sure as hell ain't sympathetic as a person in the slightest.
Meanwhile, Ryder should have just been killed during the Green Sabre mission, because his betrayal was not written well at all.
@@waters228_91 I think he is sympathetic when you look at the situation from his view. CJ left him and their family, his friends betrayed him and his gang was almost destroyed and he was imprisoned and had nothing. He became broken and had no idea that Carl has freed him. Carl also never gave Sweet any credit for looking after his mother and sister. Sweet felt that Carl was being selfish due to how he abandoned the family before, when they needed him the most. And he was right. The only thing I disagree with him is that he believes that the hood is their home and their only home, but also, I can understand his annoyance with Carl wanting to leave it because of their principles and commitment to the hood. Sweet felt that if they leave the hood for money, they'd become what they hated. Yes, Carl's businesses are better than Smoke's, no question about it, but Sweet felt that abandoning your home that you swore to protect for money makes you a sellout, especially given Carl's loyalty to the gang early on.
@@justsomeguy747 Correction: His BACKGROUND is sympathetic. There's a difference. He lost that personal sympathy when he decided to behave so ungrateful towards CJ following his release from prison. Okay, so he had every right to call CJ out in the beginning of the story due to what he did five years ago. I did understand that, and I was with Sweet that one time. But then he behaves so childishly over the hood following his release from prison, and then he becomes hypocritical when right after he calls CJ out for trying to abandon the hood, he gives up on the hood himself and decides to smoke crack a mission afterwards. And then he tells CJ "You been yapping about what you done did... ", even though CJ never even got to tell him what he done did. All I am saying is that Sweet should have been better developed towards the end by actually owning up to his own mistakes and making a compromise with CJ. That way, Sweet would learn his lesson to not drag his brother away from his success and learn to be a better leader. Missed opportunity.
I can honestly say that Sweet, for all his hypocrisy and childishness, still isn't as bad as that narcissistic idiot named Lance Vance.
@@justsomeguy747 No matter how childish Sweet actually is, there's at least some empathy towards his past. I'll give him that. Beside, Lance Vance is even worse as a brother.
This channel is a gift that keeps on giving. Top work as always Pro ❤
Now I firmly believe that Smoke was in the house waiting for Sweet so he could kill him and Blame it on CJ but CJ got there first.
Yes, it’s probably because Tenpenny told him so he waited for Sweet to go home and make it look like if CJ and Sweet got into a fight
I think he wasn’t going to blame CJ, but the ballas since smoke didn’t expect CJ to come home so early
@Alex Garcia that makes sense 🤔 CRASH knew he was home so what's stopping them from driving to Smoke and tipping him off or even calling him.
46:10 CJ smacking that Grove Street member down inadvertently actually kept him from getting shot and shooting over that desk, perfect cover
Ryder is always my favorite character mostly because his is mostly base of Eazy-e and one of my favorites mission cutscenes is when Ryder is chilling in his back yard listening to ice cube -today is a good day.
My favorite is CJ. I would date this guy.
Always hated when Sweet tells Carl it's not his business to get involved in Kendl's love life, yet he tells her (basically) to break up with Cesar because they (Families and Los Aztecas) are beefing.
If it ain't CJ's business, it sure ain't Sweet's business either
I do see his way though, CJ has been gone a long time and wants to intervene. To which Sweet kinda says his opinion isn't worth anything.
agree
Respect for how he put hours and hours just for us to enjoy! I hope you reach 10 million!
Dayum! Respect!
One question I've always had is who was leader of the Ballas before Smoke switched sides?, I've never understood how they allowed Smoke to become their boss when he was one of the leaders of the Ballas rivals before Crash got in the picture
Go to the time stamp why does Tenpenny have Kane killed I explained that
@@theprofessional155 That makes sense looking at it but it stills leaves me with questions tho, Kane was the leader of the Front Yard Ballas so one would think that the leaders of the Kilo Tray and Rolling Heights Ballas would retaliate for that blow to the gang maybe im overthinking it
@@jeanpayano1506 Maybe the kilo tray and the Rollin' heights factions are too weak to retaliate or maybe Kane wasn't complying enough with tenpenny.
They treat Ballas like doll, no personality or even a cutscene, just a common Ballas npcs
Here's some thing I read which is beta during the final part of the story, that helped me understand. To begin, after Ryder's death Smoke did cut everybody off including B-Dup, so that CJ never regretted sparing him. But he rejoined to Big Bear, key to helping in the search, who told CJ to go interrogate some Russian Mob gangster after taking over a bunch of turfs. So he did, and It's implied that gangster then told Smoke that CJ was looking for him because of Smoke's line "i knew you were coming". Smoke never planned to kill or confront Carl directly, but his actions screwed him among others up for good. Plus, he was able to get the Johnson brothers to Tenpenny which is who they wanted in the first place. Prior to all that, Smoke never told CJ what he told Ryder in the intro because CJ is the brother of target GSF leader Sweet.
Just began another playthrough of San andreas last week so this came at the perfect time! Thank you for your content and effort Pro
Another observation about the “Drive Thru” mission. Everybody loves Big Smokes truly iconic, hilarious and legendary food order, but in hindsight I see it as a foreshadowing of Big Smokes deeper issues.
That cutscene was symbolic of how Big Smoke was spending his life trying to fill a hole that had NO bottom. He attempted to fill that void with money, power, fame, “success”, or as we could see, food, but to no avail.
In the end, all that food, money, fame, power and “success” led to his demise. The Big Smoke character (and San Andreas story in general) is the timeless cautionary tale about how if a man leaves his sinful desires and passions unchecked, it will wreak loss, sorrow, emptiness and eventual ruin on his life.
This is in contrast to CJ, who was able to achieve what Big Smoke sought by committing to (at least in the realm of criminals) family, honor, principles, respect and hard work. This is what makes San Andreas in my opinion the best GTA of all time, and one of my personal favorite video games of all time.
Smoke also keeps saying the word "choice"
Like, he's trying to excuse it to everyone (probably including himself) by saying he had no choice
Truth's line "That is the surest path to hell, man." describes really well my opinion about Big Smoke's greed and selfishness. He will for sure will get a deep hole in hell....
the poetry that smo0ke reads is actually from a poem named 'If' written by rudyard kipling, the original line is
"If u can keep ur head when all about u is losing theirs and blaming it on u"
really funny taht rockstar hid this
This game came out when I was 11 and it was not a good time in my life. CJ really served as a role model for me, his tenacity and doggedness. Starting over from nothing. The game's radio stations/soundtrack actually got me into music. Ended up becoming a musician because of that.
You should never search role models in games.
17:43 I think Drive-By with Smoke was a developer oversight. Smoke had no dialogue during the mission at all, only in the end, and even then, the line could've been used for anything. They probably just put Big Smoke there, and either meant for there to be more dialogue with smoke, but didn't record it, or the mission would only be with Ryder and Sweet, but added smoke sometime later in development either way.
He only has two lines, one of them is "We iced them, CJ, let's hunt down some more" and "Here, take this, go get yourself some beer". That's it, it feels like he was never meant to be there, even in the starting cutscene, only Ryder, CJ and Sweet are shown, no Big Smoke. I think it was probably a late addition to make unsuspecting/first time players have no/less clue(s) that Big Smoke is going to betray the gang.
Thanks for the explanation. I never followed GTA stories so closely but now i understand so much to the point i want play through GTA SA again. Good work 👏
This is amazing this is why professional is the GOAT of lore videos and gaming commentary ❤
I love how in-depth your explanation on lore video games like this. When I played this as a kid, I never really bothered trying to understand the story and more so just focused on having fun playing it, but this video made me understand and appreciate San Andreas much more than before. Thank you.
This is why GTA San Andreas is not just one of the greatest GTA games of all time, it's one of the games of all time during the PS2 era
Everytime i watch professional lore videos I understand way more than when I am playing the game.Good job professional keep up with the great work love u
I don't go to parties, I don't drink, I don't do drugs. Instead I watch Professional's epic lore videos 😎😎
Big Smoke was very selfish and oportunistic to a point of using his own cheerful personality as a cover, as CJ mentions that even before the events of the game he "always talked shit", which hints at his betrayal but also let it slide that he somewhat regrets what he did to his friends and gang.
Ryder felt like he wrote off to become an antagonist, because he didn't had any hints of becoming one: his missions always involve helping the Families directly and he scorn Big Smoke during the Los Santos missions. His jealously of CJ was more because a mix of reckless personality and drug use.
I think it would have been better if Ryder died in the Ballas Ambush instead of being a traitor.
That would make more sense in ending Ryders character properly. The final version had him killed off like anti climatic.
Great video! It’s amazing how deep the relationships between the San Andreas characters go
That was an awesome watch, thank you!
Just realised how good and serious the GTA SA story is. Didnt remember it like this when I played it as a kid
It's super refreshing to have all the slip ups instead of every other youtuber editing it out
Hour and a half of lore? Getting my coffee and biscuits!
I always belived that Smoke was wearing a wire microphone under his shirt when Sweet was telling everyone in his house where the meeting was at
When big smoke says why he moved out of grove street , he is referring to his aunt . But we all know that he was referring to him staying next to ballas
He probably doesn't had aunt.
yes
Main reason I subscribed: The lore videos.
YOU EXPLAIN THE LORE SO WELL! You made me understand stuff about Smoke's betrayal I never knew about! Great video, man. Keep up the good work on all of your content.
in reality when you join a gang they say we will have your back but once you get taken down or arrested they don't have your back and say "I never seen this person before in my life" screwing your over
It's interesting how respect vs money is a strong theme in this game's story and in most of the early missions you get respect for completing missions instead of money. I never thought about it this deeply because I was a teenager when I first played these games.
I always love seeing these lore videos
Everyone needs a friend like ceser vialpendo.
Such a good video mate wow. 10/10, One of few videos I've actually watched fully was brilliant to listen to. Any chance one day you could make a video on what you think happened post-ending? We never got San Andreas Stories but would like to see what you think took place thereafter and how CJ/Sweet died etc.
I think Smoke was trying to get Sweet on his side. And if he managed to do that, he could’ve told CRASH that Sweet is playing by their rules now.
I do think he didn’t want to kill Sweet, but once Sweet didn’t budge, Big Smoke, in his mind, thought “well I tried.”
Besides that, this was a very well researched video. San Andreas is the best GTA game imo
Who is CRASH? The drug?
@@91Definite the corrupt police :)
Incredible Work Professional you're Lore Videos are always absolutely Amazing👍👍👍
San Andreas was a masterpiece. Big Smoke was an amazing villain and Samuel L Jackson is a national treasure
I love these videos professional please don’t stop making them !!!
Yet another great lore video by the professional. Thank you very much for making these!
Didn’t know Ben Shapiro knew all this about GTA SA
Dude the time and effort you put in these videos is perfect Id hope somewhere down the line rockstar sees all the support you’ve given them and have you apart of it
I'm always impressed by how much recall you have of the GTA universe
36:01 Big Smoke talked about "fake ass idiots who spent more time in drama school then they ever did pimpin or hustlin dope" is a reference to tupac being in drama school
They could’ve also had the Ballas who drive by through grove street accidentally killing CJs mom and CJ finds the perpetrators maybe in the epilogue and him and Sweet confront them. Even after the main storyline ended and maybe confront those demons and maybe Sweet would understand CJ and actually let CJ and Kendl live their lives separately
Sweet has no right to decide where CJ is supposed to live.
@@icyxi I don’t think that’s what he meant I think he meant that after the main story it would’ve been cool to have an epilogue scene or mission where they confront those demons that they’ve had all game and that Sweet would understand if Cj and Kendl lived their own lives outside of Grove Street
I like how TheProfessional spared some time to casually roast OG Loc