I agree! For my 50th Birthday I went away on a two week holiday. At the time I was a fresh faced recreational diver who had approximately 25 dives under my belt in 4 years. I was paired up with a divemaster as my “buddy” who cared less about that role, a know it all with 100s of dives under his belt with a strict type A personality. I was a for fun diver, who tried to go as much as I could, which at that time meant the Caribbean.. I admit that it was my first attempt at using an underwater camera and hadn’t yet perfected my Buoyancy so He could have just told me that tactfully. Instead he told me that I had no business in the sport and a few other choice insults. That night I seriously considering giving up the sport.. Next day, on my actual 50th B’Day, I went with a different organization and met an older diver with thousands of dives under his belt who was tactful and a true teacher. Today I am happy to report that I have 89 OWDs to my name, my Buoyancy has greatly improved, now started diving in the Northeast and am on Dive 2 of my AOW! I love the sport more than ever and it is my happy place! BTW I don’t plan to pick up a camera without taking a class first..
Hello Norma T. Leon, sorry to hear that you had the unfortunate run in with that Divemaster. I am glad though, that you decided to stick with it. Every industry has those Type A personalities. I tend to just smile at them and simply walk away. Hope the remainder of your Advanced Course went well.
Wow! Thank you! I've watched tons of videos these days, trying to learn something more each day. As an instructor working on a dive boat I meet with a couple thousand divers/instructors each season. The way you put your thoughts is so constructive and also so real. Just like you picked up the pieces of thoughts and experiences that I couldn't put into words and put them together in a super positive way. Thanks again.
Hello Mete Tuneri, glad you liked the video. I had some amazing mentors in my younger days (diving mentors), and one of the things they taught me was, to become a successful Dive Professional, one must focus more on the student and his or her needs, and not so much on my personal biased of gear and or configurations of said gear. As Instructors, we should encourage all divers to continue to grow and learn, and if they decided to go a certain pathway, then that is ok. We actually produced a video on my personal thoughts on the D-I-R mindset which you may find interesting (ua-cam.com/video/_w_33JB4yd4/v-deo.html). For me personally, I try to keep all training positive based.
Hi, the tension is not just between equipment choices. It's also in certification agencies, diving clubs, and even in the town where the dive spot is. I have my heavy thoughts also but I try to be indifferent and calm as much as I could. You woke me up to be more constructive and positive. This video is in my top 5 list ever. Our common goal should be reaching out to more potential divers. Since in my mind, a good diver is a better person.
I just recently started my path into Tech diving. This weekend in Key Largo I was to buddy up with two Rec divers that were intimated by all my gear and did not want me diving with them. The funny part is, after the two dives we did on the Spiegle Grove they had a blast. Diving is diving.
For me personally, I like meeting new divers, regardless of their experience. If they are less experienced, then it is a great opportunity for me to teach them something new. If they are more experienced than me, then its an even better opportunity for me to learn something new.
"Be humble, and respect other people's choices" is what I learned from my friend. My friend is a GUE tech diver and I'm just a PADI AOW diver, he always uses single tank and wing+backplate system when he dives with me, and my only BC is Scubapro Hydros. He never says anything about my gear and setup. We did a lot of dives together and on one dive I was finally getting tired of that weight pocket while using the drysuit, they were heavy and really bulky if I stuffed 10 lbs weight in each pocket, so I asked him for advice, he simply said: "why not give that tek harness a try and using a weight belt." That's what I did, I replaced the weight pocket to tek harness that came with my BCD and installed a crotch strap, we did some pool sessions and he helped me adjust the trim. The first lake dive with my new setup was absolutely amazing. I'm even planning to register for the GUE Fundamentals course next year.
I've met a group of anti divers in Georgia, but I'm pretty sure they would never see themselves in that way. I always wanted to get certified and really wanted to hop on the opportunity when we moved to georgia, with a dive shop only 20 min down the road. They offered a date night every so often with information and food, so my husband and I went to check it out. Before we went I checked their facebook to see if we needed to bring anything, but nothing was mentioned in their event or anywhere else. I was super excited and when we arrived they showed us a PADI video and handed out a booklet with a questionnaire. This included a health section and even though it was confusing and I wondered why they would need that, I filled it out and signed. Then they said OK, let's get in the pool! I was like what!?! It would have been great if I'd known to bring swimming gear. Never would I have guessed that this tiny looking strip mall place had a pool in the back. My husband who is not interested in scuba at least wore suitable underwear to try it. The whole rest of the evening the divers from the shop were mocking me about not bringing swimming attire. It gets really old especially after several hours and if was not a friendly kind of teasing but something that showed clearly how dumb they though I was. I wanted to give it a try at a later time and hoped they would be nicer. But the instructor had the worst day of his life and he ignored me, didn't introduce himself to me but instead was having a rant with a lady at the front desk about his other job. He put on the training video and handed me a booklet. Not a word from him, not even "hi" or anything. Luckily I knew the dril and, when the video was finished he walked from the front desk towards the back where the pool is. I looked at the receptionist and she signaled me to follow him. I did and then changed, but honestly at that time I just wanted to leave. Stealing his time was the last thing I wanted on this terrible day of his. But I got myself together and stayed. He finally started communicating, only the bare minimum of course he was still very upset. I followed his hand signals and when the lesson was over which was pretty quick luckily, I couldn't wait to get out. He did give me his card at the end. Even though I always wanted to learn scuba, it didn't look very appealing any more. At the counter I asked the lady how much the open water certification would run and she printed out a sheet that said $800 and some but I should expect around 1K total. That was the final decision enhancer. Lol If they would have been nicer there I might have thought about it anyway. We recently moved again to WA State and not only does the certification only cost $250 on base including gear rental ( honestly I don't know how they make money). But they are the nicest most supportive people here!! I got certified for Ow and I am looking at the advanced course now. Cheers! :-)
Hello Janina, sorry to hear you had a bad first time trying scuba, but congratulations on earning your Open Water Certification. Hopefully your Advanced Training will go better for you. If you are ever here in our area, swing by and check us out.
I was trained by PADI. They are the best . I had some issues but my instructor worked with me like getting comfortable with diving in general after that I got certified. Learning how to dive was the best decision I ever made.
Very true...I have both setups. I use DIR, the backplate wing system for colder water and mine diving. Then use the commercial gear for travel diving in the islands. I love both sets of gear. Also a big fan of the more you learn the better diver you become. I dive with several cave divers in my local group and seeing them do skills helped me improve and increase my knowledge. Good video!
This, like all your other videos, was a great video. I grew up in Hickory but now call Saint Augustine home. After a serious back injury in 2003, I had to stop diving for nearly 13 years. During all that time I held onto my dive gear, but in the end, the only useable piece of equipment left was my BCD, which was basically still new (it was new when I was injured). It’s a Zeagle 911 Rescue diver BCD that I managed to buy for just $250.00 during a sale at a dive shop in San Diego. Anyhow, after a lot of rehab and work with a private trainer, I’ve been able to get back into diving. I ended up purchasing all new gear (except the BCD) and worked with my local dive shop to create a custom setup specifically to deal with my old back injury. I’m using double 40’s with a 19 cf Pony bottle in between as an alternate air source for a total of 99 cf (for the same weight of a single 80). The advantage is that this setup hugs my back closer and distributes the weight more in line with my spine. Additionally, it doesn’t flop around as the 40’s rest closer on each side of my back without laying dead center on my spine. Both the double 40’s and 19 feed into a air block so I can switch between them. The output feeds an Ocean Reef Predator full face mask. The 19 is also used to feed air to my BCD and drysuit so I don’t have to use any from my 40’s for this purpose. This gives me complete redundancy except for my second stage. I put quick disconnects on all the hose ends as well as a spare second stage. This setup was created so I can self rescue (if ever needed) as the doctor put limitations on my diving that wouldn’t appeal to most divers. But it still allows me to go Reef diving and I’ll take what I can get. While Lake Hickory (and Marina) was certainly around as I grew up, Lake Hickory Scuba wasn’t. Imagine my surprise to see that a scuba shop in my old hometown would become such an important player in the sport of scuba diving.
Thank You for the kind words, they mean a lot. Sorry to hear about your back injury, but glad to hear that you have overcome it, and continued to dive. The Zeagle 911 and the Zeagle S&R have always been 2 of my favorite BCD's, I still personally own the Zeagle 911, along with a Zeagle Ranger, and a Zeagle Ranger LTD. I have heard of a lot of people with a similar setup due to a handicap from a back injury. Next time you are back in the area, swing by and visit. I got my start from the Dive Shop in Claremont NC, which is still in business. We work hand in hand with the owner, who was my original instructor. Over the years, I decided to focus my goals differently than he did, so I branched out to do my own thing. Since 2004 I have served in many different positions in the Public Service, including a Deputy Sheriff for Alexander County Sheriff's Officer, Police Officer for the City of Newton, Medic for Caldwell County EMS, and currently serve as an EMT Firefighter for Bethlehem Fire and Rescue. It is because of this that we decided to open our own dive center. We specialize in Public Safety Diving and Search and Recovery. This was a route my previous employer did not want to focus on, but he was very helpful in getting us started in the right path to reach our goals. The marina has been in my family since the beginning, 1928 to be exact, which is when Lake Hickory was backed up, except for a brief period in the 80's and 90's, when the Parkhurst family owned it. So we could not have thought of a better place to start up or dive center then on family land. Diving is truly our passion, and we really enjoy connecting with other divers, especially here on UA-cam.
It is unfortunate that DIR tends to push people away. It really does have a lot of logic and safety that everyone needs. But the zealous nature of those of us who love DIR can alienate our fellow divers. We need to remember the best way to improve scuba is to welcome all.
When the time came to get my own equipment, I spent months bouncing between the pros and cons of DIR/technical and recreational setups. In the end, I took on board the advice and warnings from both sides and adapted them to my needs. Almost everything is a trade off. What is safe and necessary in one context can be irrelevant or even a liability in another.
This guy does good common sense videos. DIR requires a level of equipment, commitment and training many aren’t ready for. There are many fun dives that don’t require DIR military level planning or double super redundancy. DIR has a lot of good ideas that are common sense and easy and ought to be taught day 1 to rec divers. Like minimizing crap dangling and frog kicking over mud or sand.
Still rings true. Diving is such a small community. The fallout rate is really high. The more experienced people need to foster those new divers in the sport, help them succeed and make sure they enjoy the experience. Nearly thirty years of diving as a hobby and running a dive club has taught me that no matter how cool I think I am, I could learn so much more. The gleam and excitement a new diver has when they come back from a good dive is super rewarding to watch. As long as someone doesn't over dive their abilities and equipment, it's all good.
Hello Lars Dennert, a lot of divers overtime forget where it is they come from, even ones who had great mentors. They are presented the best opportunity to be a mentor for newer divers but choose not to. The majority of dive professionals, at least the ones that make a true career out of diving, choose the other path. The path of being a mentor. This is the path that will continue the Scuba Industry.
As an old time diver My piece of advice after you get certified try and find an experinced diver you can trust to teach you all the things your lacking. be it skills or equipment. A mentor so to speak.
This is really interesting to me. I'm working on higher level scuba certifications at my college and my instructors (although they teach PADI and certify in PADI) seem to have more of a DIR mindset. I had never heard of DIR until now but it is strange to me to see how it is a "different type of diving" than commercial diving because a lot of the key principles are ones that have been ingrained since I started diving. Obviously I am not educated in DIR as I stated before but it is interesting to see how they can be similar yet so different.
The DIR Philosophy is by nature a safe way to dive, focuses on redundancy, and in a lot of situations is the best way to dive. But like any other philosophy, it has flaws and sometimes it is not needed on certain dives. Being comfortable is still they absolute best way to dive, and some people simply don't feel comfortable diving with the same gear and philosophies as others.
After becoming certified I got a lot of great ideas from Scubaboard. Some dive buddies get upset when I show up in a BP/Wing, doubles, low pressure tanks etc. I lost count of the number of times somebody asked me to clip my pony tank to their anchorline(the opposite to what I was taught.) I like diving with new divers as long as they aren't going waste hours of my time. I have also met divers many times more advanced than I who wouldn't even talk about weather conditions with me. This was a great video and one of your best.
Garrett Kane Thank You for the kind words. The more you dive the more you learn. Unfortunately there will always be those that are not open to change or open to the fact their way is not the only way. Keep diving, keep learning, become your own diver, be safe, and have fun.
I am a recreational Diver, I also know a few Tech. divers, We are all in this sport because we have an appreciation for the water and the marine life that dwells therein. Tech Divers are exploring the scientific side of the field. We Rec. divers are exploring the marine life side of the circle, but actually both sides have the love of being under water. We actually need each other. The equipment we use on either side of the circle is specific to our needs. your equipment would not work for me, and my equipment would not work for you. each diver is an individual with individual needs, so lets all respect each other and learn to appreciate one another. In this way we may even pick up a few pointers from the one another. Never too advanced to learn a new trick.
I looked up DIR (doing it right) good mindset but we can't say because one belongs to a group and excludes others doesn't make a person better I really enjoyed that discussion
Thank You. In Cave Country, North Florida and Mexico, this topic comes up all the time. Here in our area, where we have several quarries that are dove daily, the wide range of divers are split about 70% recreational and 30% technical. We believe that depending on the specific dive you are making, there is a right and wrong way to do it. But that right or wrong way doesn't mean that it is right or wrong for every dive you make. As far as the industry goes, the DIR community has a tendency to put down the recreational side, out of a superiority mindset. As I have stated several times, they sometimes take the fun out of diving by making it to technical at the beginner level. An example is by stating that all gear should be set up in a way that it conforms to all types of diving. Such as a long hose on a single tank. The reasoning is of course so it is easier to transition from one rig to the next, and if one was going into an overhead environment, the long hose is needed. But the reality of all divers who get certified, who continues on with their education, or even has the desire to go into an overhead environment is very small. Thus they do not need gear to conform as such. In return the recreational side tends to look at the DIR community and considers them snobby. Instead of embracing the technical side and learning from them, they look at them as dangerous divers pushing the limits. The lack of knowledge they have, limits the ability to see just how safe the DIR / Technical side truly is. I personally believe that learning both sides of the spectrum makes a diver the safest out there, for with more knowledge one becomes safer, but each diver should never sacrifice their individuality to meet the community standards set by one group or the other.
LakeHickoryScuba another division is just on the certifying agencies PADI SSI etc bottom line is all of them depends on instructor and the shops the support that area to me it's the pleasure of breathing underwater and being with good people
Ivory Johnson This is very true, most students continue on with the mind set their instructor has. And with all the different training agencies there are a ton of mind sets. This is why we are strong advocates of students receiving training from multiple training agencies instead of just one, hence why I teach for 5 different agencies. Students have the benefit of seeing different philosophies.
O.K. What of a merger of the two? I would think that some one wold look at the safety record of each group and see where any deficiency are found in each group. It would make for some very polite competition between the two,
Late to the party here. I hadn't heard the DIR term used before see thing video. I don't see the controversy here. I mean it depends on what type of diving you have planned for any particular dive. I mean when I am doing a deep wreck drive in California using a dry suit I am going to plan it one way and when I am diving off a charter boat that carters to tourist in Hawaii I am going to plan my dive differently. A guided drift on a reef in Hawaii with a max depth of maybe 40ft in warm water doesn't require the same amount of planning as an unguided wreck dive at 125ft in 55 degree water. I mean just don't be a jerk, this also means that if you are new (or an infrequent diver) to diving being honest about your skills especially what your expected air usage rate is going to be. No one likes it when they are half way though the dive and the new diver who may have over sold their skills has burned through their gas and you have to end the dive. I dive with a local club in San Diego almost every week, and for the weeknight shore dives we also ask a bunch of questions to new divers just to make sure that everyone is on the same page and buddy pairs make sense. We don't necessarily want to pair the new diver who has just completed their AOW and is diving a 7mm wetsuit and AL80 with the grumpy veteran diver in a dry suite with a steel HP100 and pony bottle. But sometimes that is the right call, at some point everyone was the new diver who burned through their air "too" fast. The important part is clear communications about skill levels and expectations for the dive before you head out that way everyone is both safe and having a good time. so that;s my two cents (or buck 50 bases on word count)
Hello Andrew, we couldn't agree with you more. Sometimes, the old veteran divers (like my self) tend to forget that we were new divers at one time. This is why we try our best not to preach a particular philosophy to our students. We believe that each dive needs to be planned separate from the next, and what works on one dive, may not work for the next.
I didn't like all the crap that wanted us to do in training. It all gave me anxiety. So I just bought all my own equipment and go diving with my friends. I never got certified and never needed to .
i do not have anyone to dive with in the river where i am so i made it clear to my instructor that i will be diving alone alot. he said its a risk but he said every dive even if u are with others is a self or alone dive. u have to be self reliant. he said there is a alone padi diving certification but i need 100 dives to even qualify for this. my way around this is my friend jay will be in the boat. with my ocean reef mask i am gonna get the communications kit for it. i can talk to him on the surface while i am below if anything happens. i am a double redundant safety kinda guy so i will have my octo plus pony and in absolute emergency ill have a spare air. we talked about having a rope dropped with a weight on the end. if i pull on that rope 2 times(tugs) he will start to pull it up very slowly(in case i get a cramp as what my emergency is) he is going to get his padi also but he said in a couple of years. this was long but we did talk about safety really well. love your videos.
Your instructor would be correct. During all dives, each diver should be self reliant. I teach both PADI’s Self Reliant Course and SSI’s Independent Diver Course. Both are all about planning and accident management. Definitely a confidence booster and a must for anyone who will be diving alone.
I’ve been in same position as a solo diver for many many years. You have to be real quick to ‘call’ a dive if you or dive environment isn’t optimal and not push your luck. I like to have a necklace and octopus too in case of reg failure or entanglement. Rivers can be dangerous.
Well, I guess there is definitely space for recreational diving, tec and commercial divers... as always choose your tools and gears for the task. there is no better method or one kind that is better than others... I like the skill levels of DIR divers because they use to train much more and enjoy develop their skills... on the other hand, it's our dear recreational divers who build up all the nice touristic dive sites... It depends on what you want to do enjoy the fish and dive sites or develop skills and setting up your own system? If you work as a commercial diver you anyway need to follow a given standard... I enjoy all the different sides of diving and dive for constructions, tec and recreational (and believe it or not with different setups fit to the tasks) Thanks mate for the video... keep safe
Terrific video. A diver should wear what feels comfortable and safe. Once they have used the gear for a while they can enhance it to fit their diving style.
I thought you were going to mention those people who drop their tanks from their backseat 😏 i guess i am safe for now. Btw.. i will have you know, i was looking at buying an orcatorch mask mounted light off Amazon.. and at the bottom of the page I saw a great LHS review, so i bought 2. 👌👌
Interesting video. We have it in the UK too. Of course we are all recreational divers; as in its a hobby for nearly all of us and we should be all doing it right. IANTD, PADI, TDI, GUE are all just dive training agencies are are commercial ventures. In the UK there is also a divide between amateur training agencies e.g BSAC and professional agencies. Personally I have qualifications which span across all these divides. You are right, the love of the sport is all that matters. Thank you for your video
Very well put mate. 4yrs on from this viv we all still see obnoxious Scubaboard geniuses belittling and driving people away. Anyone not from within the exiting cliques/groups is fresh meat... like prey.
Scuba diving is highly diverse. And with the anonymity of the internet, egos start to argument, not divers. I am guilty of this myself. When someone suggested buckles for a BP/W combi of a new diver, I jumped in and screamed "heresy!" just because I would never suggest a healthy, young person, to choose buckles and quick-adjust snaps on their harness. What followed was a discussion full of misunderstanding and false judgement. I kept my point - if you are young and healthy, a DIR style harness is not uncomfortable to don - and he kept his - you have to break your arms to don a DIR style harness. A really frustrating scenario. I will never try to argue in favor for a DIR style Harness again, at least not on the internet...
Our standpoint on arguing, is please feel free to argue all you want. It will just be one sided though, because if someone chooses to argue, then we choose to just go diving. The great thing about being underwater is, all you hear during an argument is BUBBLE BUBBLE BUBBLE.
I didn't know there was actually anti certified divers. I'm not one of those kind of people. This one is my love sport. Having knowledge and responsibly is good when your not certified yet.
I think your point got lost... but as a diver for 30+ years (800+ dives) , with many newly certified dive buddies, you should focus on the initial open water course. Safety, how to put equipment back on under water, communication, checking your gauges, how to safely ascend. what to do in an unforeseen problem without panicking. What to do if you get "lost". I had all of this training in my open water class and I have yet to meet another diver that has. Agencies are no different, but dive instruction is. A good diver is a good diver, a bad diver is a disaster. I do not think anyone cares about their diving preference or gear, either they are safe or they are not.
Hello Patrick, like you, I have been diving 30+ years, and have been very fortunate to dive with 1000's of new divers. I have had a slightly different experience than you though. The dive training I received in the late 1980's is still consistent with the training I see divers receiving today. Even my students go through the same skill sets that I did. The only exception is, technology has made some of the skills obsolete, or less important. But all of the skills mentioned in your comment are still taught today. I currently teach through 5 different training agencies and they all teach the same thing. I would agree with you in the fact that it all comes down to the Instructor and not so much the agency.
I learned cave diving from a few friends that are cave certified. Same instruction, same skill training, same exercises. I can learn fast but my finances make it to where I can’t afford all the classes required to get to the “already know it” point, $800 for side mount!!!! That kind of shit! I have multiple everything and know what I’m doing. I am advanced certified and going to take stress and rescue ( because I’ve already actually did those exercises) but after that I’m not paying people to sign something saying ok I did it. I’ve been diving for about 20 years. I know what I need to know. When your equipment breaks the bank, it doesn’t leave much for the instructors. I hate greed
Hello Marty Brasher, we wish you safe diving. Take care out there and be safe. We encourage all divers to receive proper training, especially before trying a new type of diving. I would suggest shopping around to find an Instructor that you can budget.
Sadly, I agree with a lot of 'anti-divers' commenting. I went through PADI OW in 1989, and back then, they would try to explain (at least skim over) decompression information, general check lists, final check off, your major OW Dive Points, explain that there is a LOT MORE to diving (just that they weren't giving it to you right then), small groups, STUDY TIME (my course took 4-weeks, with READING between class meetings, as well as GOOD classroom info)...and sadly, I CERTIFIED IN HAWAII!!! The modern BANE of 'warm water scam artistry' now. PADI (now considered 'Pay Another Dollar In) has turned into a stagnant 'money maintenance protocol' with ever-increasing rates for ever-decreasing content, so some 'new student' can get on a blog site asking 'is there a limit to how deep I can dive?' I love diving, got several thousand dives to my credit, but if I don't personally know you and your skill level...I'm not diving with you, period. Yep, I've hit 'anti-diver' status, I guess.
I wouldn't say you have hit anti-diver status simply because you are picky on who you dive with. You have a right to choose who you would dive with. I too was brought up through the PADI ranks, starting in the 1980's, and I had a completely different experience. My Open Water course was 16 weeks long, and we covered all the same stuff that we teach today. We covered all gas calculations, decompression theories, tables and computers, etc. I still believe it has a lot to do with the individual instructor and not so much the agency. I currently teach through 5 different agencies, SSI, PADI, PDIC, SEI, and CMAS. Every now and again, someone will tell me that PADI instructors are better than SSI instructors. After I give them time to explain their reasoning behind their beliefs, then I throw them a curve ball and say, I teach for both SSI and PADI, so does that make me good or bad." I have yet to get a response. Point being made, some people buy into the agency, and some buy into the instructors.
Great points...because when I was in Hawaii (where I PADI OW'd), I was in the Marines at the time...and asked at least a DOZEN people I trusted, 'who has the best dive shop'...and it kept coming back as the PADI shop in Kailua...so, that was it for me...so, technically, it was 'word-of-mouth' based on instructor and shop features.... That said, I'm now hearing a LOT of bad things coming out of warm water PADI training that is quite troubling...along with PADI's founder dying and it turning into a 'banker investment scheme'...of course, the real problem is when I see kids posting comments on boards now saying 'I just finished my OW, and I just wanted to know if there's a limit to how deep I can dive' (BIG HEAD-SLAP on that one!)... There are several details, that I won't go into here, that do bother me about 'diving instruction' in general...that 'isn't like it was'...that I think affects new divers worse than most know (like the CRIPPLING lack of technical training in most OW diving courses on decompression). While dive computers are GREAT, they seem to have become such a CRUTCH to most new divers, that I truly don't think they'd have a CLUE what to do, if their wrist band dropped their computer out of reach...we used to cover this, at least superficially, in OW...I still have my original deco table from the course...but most instructors DO NOT COVER IT NOW, even TOUCH on it! Again...bad business cutting corners that only hurts the student. Oh, well...just an old guy complaining...I doubt what I say changes anything...but at least I know (and knew) what to do if I was at 60 feet too long to do an NDL dive and my 'computer' fell off...
You know, talking on this, and mentioning something you covered in one of your videos about 'stagnation' for the various certifying agencies (I think it was in the video you mention working with SSI), is that while PADI has picked up various 'special courses' and expanded the AOW selections a bit, one thing that, I guess really hurts from my perspective (slapping the 'baby', as we used to say), is that PADI has NO SPECIAL CERTIFICATION OFFERING on surface-air diving (again, pet form of my own...diving with my gold-dredge-sluice equipment)...there are SO MANY DIFFERENCES between 'line diving' and 'tank diving', it is ALMOST a unique sport in its own...at 20-ft, I often don't wear a BCD (the dredge head weighs 30-lbs!, so I am 'fixed'), I don't have to worry about 'tank depletion', but I FAR MORE have to worry about 'excessive time' that could cause a really strange decompression requirement (lose track of time at 25-ft, and find out about 'the RASH'!) So a dive watch is CRITICAL, where a computer is not, etc...you run into obstacle issues, line entanglements...so much more that don't even AFFECT tank divers...and it is a WONDERFUL alternative method...that PADI has ZERO coverage on, that I am aware of! Again...old man here...too many gripes...and no real availability of input to an organization's 'ear' that could hear this and help divers as a result of it... I might not be fully 'anti-diver'...but my wife says I still resemble Jeff Dunham's character 'Walter', when it comes to my grumbling...
This is the way I look at diving. I started diving because of the enjoyment factor. I don't let an instructor, a dive shop, a training agency, or anything get in the way of that. There are so many things about all of the agencies I teach for that just makes no sense to me, but in the end, it doesn't effect my ability to go diving for fun. Somethings in this world we have no control over. We can either fuss about it, or we can throw gear on and go diving. In regards to surface supply, I'm not sure of any recreational agency to teaches it. I guess from a business aspect, they don't see a large profit value to it. I could be wrong though, just my observation.
We deal with this all the time in amateur radio with the "anti no-code" ham radio operators. As opposed to embracing the fact the not everybody is interested in learning CW (morse code) and building the hobby, the licensed antis believe that licensed "no-coders" are inferior radio operators... It makes no sense and has turned a lot of people away from the hobby over the years. I took a five year hiatus because I got tired of hearing about it. So I TOTALLY understand the anti (certified) scuba divers and the detriment they can impose upon the diving comunity.
Great video. Now if we could remove the (certified) and add the freediver in the discussion we will get to the real hatred of SCUBA divers. It is literally out of control. As far as certified goes, everyone is an individual. As long as they are not dangerous around me, who am I to say what they should be like?
People love to make rules even though they have no authority to do so. One could make a rule that you have to build a car and know how to repair it before you can drive one. That rule works as well as, you can't dive with equipment that you did not build. It seems to me more "experts" die than novice. The novice will try to stay out of harm's way, and has nothing to prove.
I've been calling them diving snobs. They've pretty much ruined me from even bothering to ask questions or get involved in the Scuba Board community. Now I just use it to search questions or ideas, and leave without contributing. I have better things to do with my life.... like dive.
I guess i am an anti SCUBA diver... but mainly because i have lost faith in the training that new divers receive, at least in my area. I try to help out new divers with their skills etc, but i have watched the standard slowly drop. I mean how can you produce a good, competent diver when you have saw 8 diver in an OW course, and two days to complete it. Struggling divers just dont get picked up with the high student to instructor ratio, and these divers that struggle still get certified. Although i am not DIR, i am in-line with their philosophy and believe OW divers would be better off if their first course was similar to the GUE rec 1, with a focus on good buoyancy and trim, consolidating skills etc. In my opinion there are many divers out there that have passed the very bare minimum to get their certification and their is a lot they don't know, or don't understanding about what can be a deadly sport. I have been on so many "commercial" dives where OW and AOW divers are just diving until they hit 50 bar, not monitoring depth, air pressure and not ready if something should fail (other than rush to buddy with out of air signal) I could go on, but i wont, i know that i am an "anti" SCUBA diver, for the above reasons, and i am ok with that.
ceriops123 Thank You for your comment. As much as I have seen in the last 28 years in the industry, I will agree with you that training has been dumbed down to an extent. But the percentage of this training is so microscopic compared to how many instructors there are in the world. Stating that you have lost faith in training just based off what is in your area, is not a fair belief for all instructors world wide. I encourage all who want change, to take action by becoming an instructor and start training divers to what they believe to be a higher standard. And there are ANTI-DIVERS on both side not just one or the other.
Just wondering if you are a cold water diver or a tropics diver? The reason I ask is because thirteen dives in I had my first panicked diver situation. Someone who was certified in the tropics did there first dive in the cold waters of Tobermory. The person could not equalize and shot to the surface. Only to find out at the surface they had earplugs in. After that experience I can see why people are losing faith in there fellow divers. I am definitely asking more questions next time I dive with someone new. With all that said I feel like the area I live in has a pretty sold safety standard when it comes to teaching. Something about cold water and the extra gear and care it requires. I would also say most of our open water classes max out at ten people getting certified with two instructors, one dive master, and one saftey diver on shore duty. It makes for a pretty safe environment and people get the help they need. Wondering if in the tropics people are getting the same care?
Call tech tech and recreational recreational. D.I.R is arrogant term better to call it Hogarthian. There are many excellent recreational divers Doing It Right and many terrible tech divers.
I have no doubt, I always enjoy learning more as I get older, and it would be greatly appreciated to hear about your experiences with the DIR philosophy. Feel free to add more comments below, as that is part of why we have a UA-cam channel, to spark more interest in diving and to learn from others. Thank You for commenting.
If by DIR, you refer to GUE or UTD, then I can say they are not what I would call exclusive. Sure when taking their class, they have a more strict requirement both on gear selection and skill set. But once out side of the class, their divers are just another divers. They will dive with anyone safe. Their philosophy is not to exclude. Instead, they take diving as a holistic approach. What you learn in the entry level class, can and will be used later in their deep cave exploration/tech diving. If you look at how cave or tech diving is done across many qualified agency, their approach is more or less converge. DIR just want you go start with that in mind. That is why their entry level rec class is very difficult, a lot more so than the popular commercialized agencies. Failure to pass is also a good possibility. That kind of make other feel they are exclusive, but in fact, they just have a much higher standard at the entry level.
Hello Lar Lario, we have another video up specifically talking about our history with DIR that you may find interesting. A lot of the technical agencies are shying away from the DIR movement. My History with DIR ua-cam.com/video/_w_33JB4yd4/v-deo.html
I agree! For my 50th Birthday I went away on a two week holiday. At the time I was a fresh faced recreational diver who had approximately 25 dives under my belt in 4 years. I was paired up with a divemaster as my “buddy” who cared less about that role, a know it all with 100s of dives under his belt with a strict type A personality. I was a for fun diver, who tried to go as much as I could, which at that time meant the Caribbean.. I admit that it was my first attempt at using an underwater camera and hadn’t yet perfected my Buoyancy so He could have just told me that tactfully. Instead he told me that I had no business in the sport and a few other choice insults. That night I seriously considering giving up the sport..
Next day, on my actual 50th B’Day, I went with a different organization and met an older diver with thousands of dives under his belt who was tactful and a true teacher. Today I am happy to report that I have 89 OWDs to my name, my Buoyancy has greatly improved, now started diving in the Northeast and am on Dive 2 of my AOW! I love the sport more than ever and it is my happy place! BTW I don’t plan to pick up a camera without taking a class first..
Hello Norma T. Leon, sorry to hear that you had the unfortunate run in with that Divemaster. I am glad though, that you decided to stick with it. Every industry has those Type A personalities. I tend to just smile at them and simply walk away. Hope the remainder of your Advanced Course went well.
Wow! Thank you! I've watched tons of videos these days, trying to learn something more each day. As an instructor working on a dive boat I meet with a couple thousand divers/instructors each season. The way you put your thoughts is so constructive and also so real. Just like you picked up the pieces of thoughts and experiences that I couldn't put into words and put them together in a super positive way. Thanks again.
Hello Mete Tuneri, glad you liked the video. I had some amazing mentors in my younger days (diving mentors), and one of the things they taught me was, to become a successful Dive Professional, one must focus more on the student and his or her needs, and not so much on my personal biased of gear and or configurations of said gear. As Instructors, we should encourage all divers to continue to grow and learn, and if they decided to go a certain pathway, then that is ok. We actually produced a video on my personal thoughts on the D-I-R mindset which you may find interesting (ua-cam.com/video/_w_33JB4yd4/v-deo.html). For me personally, I try to keep all training positive based.
Hi, the tension is not just between equipment choices. It's also in certification agencies, diving clubs, and even in the town where the dive spot is. I have my heavy thoughts also but I try to be indifferent and calm as much as I could. You woke me up to be more constructive and positive. This video is in my top 5 list ever. Our common goal should be reaching out to more potential divers. Since in my mind, a good diver is a better person.
I just recently started my path into Tech diving. This weekend in Key Largo I was to buddy up with two Rec divers that were intimated by all my gear and did not want me diving with them. The funny part is, after the two dives we did on the Spiegle Grove they had a blast. Diving is diving.
For me personally, I like meeting new divers, regardless of their experience. If they are less experienced, then it is a great opportunity for me to teach them something new. If they are more experienced than me, then its an even better opportunity for me to learn something new.
"Be humble, and respect other people's choices" is what I learned from my friend.
My friend is a GUE tech diver and I'm just a PADI AOW diver, he always uses single tank and wing+backplate system when he dives with me, and my only BC is Scubapro Hydros. He never says anything about my gear and setup. We did a lot of dives together and on one dive I was finally getting tired of that weight pocket while using the drysuit, they were heavy and really bulky if I stuffed 10 lbs weight in each pocket, so I asked him for advice, he simply said: "why not give that tek harness a try and using a weight belt."
That's what I did, I replaced the weight pocket to tek harness that came with my BCD and installed a crotch strap, we did some pool sessions and he helped me adjust the trim. The first lake dive with my new setup was absolutely amazing. I'm even planning to register for the GUE Fundamentals course next year.
Hello @JamesZhengyang, sounds like you have an amazing dive buddy. This is what I would like to see more divers do, help each other.
I've met a group of anti divers in Georgia, but I'm pretty sure they would never see themselves in that way. I always wanted to get certified and really wanted to hop on the opportunity when we moved to georgia, with a dive shop only 20 min down the road.
They offered a date night every so often with information and food, so my husband and I went to check it out. Before we went I checked their facebook to see if we needed to bring anything, but nothing was mentioned in their event or anywhere else.
I was super excited and when we arrived they showed us a PADI video and handed out a booklet with a questionnaire. This included a health section and even though it was confusing and I wondered why they would need that, I filled it out and signed.
Then they said OK, let's get in the pool! I was like what!?!
It would have been great if I'd known to bring swimming gear. Never would I have guessed that this tiny looking strip mall place had a pool in the back.
My husband who is not interested in scuba at least wore suitable underwear to try it.
The whole rest of the evening the divers from the shop were mocking me about not bringing swimming attire. It gets really old especially after several hours and if was not a friendly kind of teasing but something that showed clearly how dumb they though I was.
I wanted to give it a try at a later time and hoped they would be nicer.
But the instructor had the worst day of his life and he ignored me, didn't introduce himself to me but instead was having a rant with a lady at the front desk about his other job. He put on the training video and handed me a booklet. Not a word from him, not even "hi" or anything. Luckily I knew the dril and, when the video was finished he walked from the front desk towards the back where the pool is. I looked at the receptionist and she signaled me to follow him. I did and then changed, but honestly at that time I just wanted to leave. Stealing his time was the last thing I wanted on this terrible day of his.
But I got myself together and stayed. He finally started communicating, only the bare minimum of course he was still very upset.
I followed his hand signals and when the lesson was over which was pretty quick luckily, I couldn't wait to get out. He did give me his card at the end.
Even though I always wanted to learn scuba, it didn't look very appealing any more.
At the counter I asked the lady how much the open water certification would run and she printed out a sheet that said $800 and some but I should expect around 1K total.
That was the final decision enhancer. Lol
If they would have been nicer there I might have thought about it anyway.
We recently moved again to WA State and not only does the certification only cost $250 on base including gear rental ( honestly I don't know how they make money).
But they are the nicest most supportive people here!!
I got certified for Ow and I am looking at the advanced course now. Cheers! :-)
Hello Janina, sorry to hear you had a bad first time trying scuba, but congratulations on earning your Open Water Certification. Hopefully your Advanced Training will go better for you. If you are ever here in our area, swing by and check us out.
@@LakeHickoryScuba for sure! :-)
I was trained by PADI. They are the best . I had some issues but my instructor worked with me like getting comfortable with diving in general after that I got certified. Learning how to dive was the best decision I ever made.
Sounds like you had an awesome Instructor and a great experience.
Very true...I have both setups. I use DIR, the backplate wing system for colder water and mine diving. Then use the commercial gear for travel diving in the islands. I love both sets of gear. Also a big fan of the more you learn the better diver you become. I dive with several cave divers in my local group and seeing them do skills helped me improve and increase my knowledge. Good video!
I agree with you. The more we learn, the more we know.
This, like all your other videos, was a great video. I grew up in Hickory but now call Saint Augustine home. After a serious back injury in 2003, I had to stop diving for nearly 13 years. During all that time I held onto my dive gear, but in the end, the only useable piece of equipment left was my BCD, which was basically still new (it was new when I was injured). It’s a Zeagle 911 Rescue diver BCD that I managed to buy for just $250.00 during a sale at a dive shop in San Diego. Anyhow, after a lot of rehab and work with a private trainer, I’ve been able to get back into diving. I ended up purchasing all new gear (except the BCD) and worked with my local dive shop to create a custom setup specifically to deal with my old back injury. I’m using double 40’s with a 19 cf Pony bottle in between as an alternate air source for a total of 99 cf (for the same weight of a single 80). The advantage is that this setup hugs my back closer and distributes the weight more in line with my spine. Additionally, it doesn’t flop around as the 40’s rest closer on each side of my back without laying dead center on my spine. Both the double 40’s and 19 feed into a air block so I can switch between them. The output feeds an Ocean Reef Predator full face mask. The 19 is also used to feed air to my BCD and drysuit so I don’t have to use any from my 40’s for this purpose. This gives me complete redundancy except for my second stage. I put quick disconnects on all the hose ends as well as a spare second stage. This setup was created so I can self rescue (if ever needed) as the doctor put limitations on my diving that wouldn’t appeal to most divers. But it still allows me to go Reef diving and I’ll take what I can get.
While Lake Hickory (and Marina) was certainly around as I grew up, Lake Hickory Scuba wasn’t. Imagine my surprise to see that a scuba shop in my old hometown would become such an important player in the sport of scuba diving.
Thank You for the kind words, they mean a lot. Sorry to hear about your back injury, but glad to hear that you have overcome it, and continued to dive. The Zeagle 911 and the Zeagle S&R have always been 2 of my favorite BCD's, I still personally own the Zeagle 911, along with a Zeagle Ranger, and a Zeagle Ranger LTD. I have heard of a lot of people with a similar setup due to a handicap from a back injury. Next time you are back in the area, swing by and visit. I got my start from the Dive Shop in Claremont NC, which is still in business. We work hand in hand with the owner, who was my original instructor. Over the years, I decided to focus my goals differently than he did, so I branched out to do my own thing. Since 2004 I have served in many different positions in the Public Service, including a Deputy Sheriff for Alexander County Sheriff's Officer, Police Officer for the City of Newton, Medic for Caldwell County EMS, and currently serve as an EMT Firefighter for Bethlehem Fire and Rescue. It is because of this that we decided to open our own dive center. We specialize in Public Safety Diving and Search and Recovery. This was a route my previous employer did not want to focus on, but he was very helpful in getting us started in the right path to reach our goals. The marina has been in my family since the beginning, 1928 to be exact, which is when Lake Hickory was backed up, except for a brief period in the 80's and 90's, when the Parkhurst family owned it. So we could not have thought of a better place to start up or dive center then on family land. Diving is truly our passion, and we really enjoy connecting with other divers, especially here on UA-cam.
It is unfortunate that DIR tends to push people away. It really does have a lot of logic and safety that everyone needs. But the zealous nature of those of us who love DIR can alienate our fellow divers. We need to remember the best way to improve scuba is to welcome all.
Very true Sarah.
When the time came to get my own equipment, I spent months bouncing between the pros and cons of DIR/technical and recreational setups. In the end, I took on board the advice and warnings from both sides and adapted them to my needs. Almost everything is a trade off. What is safe and necessary in one context can be irrelevant or even a liability in another.
Very True. We encourage all divers to gear up with the gear that makes them feel the most comfortable.
This guy does good common sense videos. DIR requires a level of equipment, commitment and training many aren’t ready for. There are many fun dives that don’t require DIR military level planning or double super redundancy. DIR has a lot of good ideas that are common sense and easy and ought to be taught day 1 to rec divers. Like minimizing crap dangling and frog kicking over mud or sand.
Thank you Paul Gee
Still rings true. Diving is such a small community. The fallout rate is really high. The more experienced people need to foster those new divers in the sport, help them succeed and make sure they enjoy the experience. Nearly thirty years of diving as a hobby and running a dive club has taught me that no matter how cool I think I am, I could learn so much more. The gleam and excitement a new diver has when they come back from a good dive is super rewarding to watch. As long as someone doesn't over dive their abilities and equipment, it's all good.
Hello Lars Dennert, a lot of divers overtime forget where it is they come from, even ones who had great mentors. They are presented the best opportunity to be a mentor for newer divers but choose not to. The majority of dive professionals, at least the ones that make a true career out of diving, choose the other path. The path of being a mentor. This is the path that will continue the Scuba Industry.
Excellent video! I wish this could be played every Time I get on a charter dive boat.
That is simple. Each time you get on the boat, show someone our video.
As an old time diver My piece of advice after you get certified try and find an experinced diver you can trust to teach you all the things your lacking. be it skills or equipment. A mentor so to speak.
Finding a Mentor is great advice.
This is really interesting to me. I'm working on higher level scuba certifications at my college and my instructors (although they teach PADI and certify in PADI) seem to have more of a DIR mindset. I had never heard of DIR until now but it is strange to me to see how it is a "different type of diving" than commercial diving because a lot of the key principles are ones that have been ingrained since I started diving. Obviously I am not educated in DIR as I stated before but it is interesting to see how they can be similar yet so different.
The DIR Philosophy is by nature a safe way to dive, focuses on redundancy, and in a lot of situations is the best way to dive. But like any other philosophy, it has flaws and sometimes it is not needed on certain dives. Being comfortable is still they absolute best way to dive, and some people simply don't feel comfortable diving with the same gear and philosophies as others.
After becoming certified I got a lot of great ideas from Scubaboard. Some dive buddies get upset when I show up in a BP/Wing, doubles, low pressure tanks etc. I lost count of the number of times somebody asked me to clip my pony tank to their anchorline(the opposite to what I was taught.) I like diving with new divers as long as they aren't going waste hours of my time. I have also met divers many times more advanced than I who wouldn't even talk about weather conditions with me. This was a great video and one of your best.
Garrett Kane Thank You for the kind words. The more you dive the more you learn. Unfortunately there will always be those that are not open to change or open to the fact their way is not the only way. Keep diving, keep learning, become your own diver, be safe, and have fun.
This was a great video. And I can’t imagine clipping my pony bottle to somebody’s anchor line. It wouldn’t do me much good there.
I am a recreational Diver, I also know a few Tech. divers, We are all in this sport because we have an appreciation for the water and the marine life that dwells therein. Tech Divers are exploring the scientific side of the field. We Rec. divers are exploring the marine life side of the circle, but actually both sides have the love of being under water. We actually need each other. The equipment we use on either side of the circle is specific to our needs. your equipment would not work for me, and my equipment would not work for you. each diver is an individual with individual needs, so lets all respect each other and learn to appreciate one another. In this way we may even pick up a few pointers from the one another. Never too advanced to learn a new trick.
Very Well Said George.
I am binge-watching your videos. So good!
Thank You, that means a lot.
Im in the group that most all divers hate i dive surface supplied air. I maybe down 6 to 8 hours but not go deeper than 30ft.
I completely understand where you are coming from. Even Mike Nelson (Mr. SeaHunt himself) had an episode dealing with Hard Hat Divers vs Scuba Divers.
Interesting thought and nice video👌 I just kept getting distracted by your hand signals. Is that a code that something is wrong ? 😂
Sorry Divemaster Daniel, I tend to talk with my hands.
@@LakeHickoryScuba I know that feeling :D I started doing that also
I looked up DIR (doing it right) good mindset but we can't say because one belongs to a group and excludes others doesn't make a person better I really enjoyed that discussion
Thank You. In Cave Country, North Florida and Mexico, this topic comes up all the time. Here in our area, where we have several quarries that are dove daily, the wide range of divers are split about 70% recreational and 30% technical. We believe that depending on the specific dive you are making, there is a right and wrong way to do it. But that right or wrong way doesn't mean that it is right or wrong for every dive you make. As far as the industry goes, the DIR community has a tendency to put down the recreational side, out of a superiority mindset. As I have stated several times, they sometimes take the fun out of diving by making it to technical at the beginner level. An example is by stating that all gear should be set up in a way that it conforms to all types of diving. Such as a long hose on a single tank. The reasoning is of course so it is easier to transition from one rig to the next, and if one was going into an overhead environment, the long hose is needed. But the reality of all divers who get certified, who continues on with their education, or even has the desire to go into an overhead environment is very small. Thus they do not need gear to conform as such. In return the recreational side tends to look at the DIR community and considers them snobby. Instead of embracing the technical side and learning from them, they look at them as dangerous divers pushing the limits. The lack of knowledge they have, limits the ability to see just how safe the DIR / Technical side truly is. I personally believe that learning both sides of the spectrum makes a diver the safest out there, for with more knowledge one becomes safer, but each diver should never sacrifice their individuality to meet the community standards set by one group or the other.
LakeHickoryScuba another division is just on the certifying agencies PADI SSI etc bottom line is all of them depends on instructor and the shops the support that area to me it's the pleasure of breathing underwater and being with good people
Ivory Johnson This is very true, most students continue on with the mind set their instructor has. And with all the different training agencies there are a ton of mind sets. This is why we are strong advocates of students receiving training from multiple training agencies instead of just one, hence why I teach for 5 different agencies. Students have the benefit of seeing different philosophies.
O.K. What of a merger of the two? I would think that some one wold look at the safety record of each group and see where any deficiency are found in each group. It would make for some very polite competition between the two,
Most divers do take multiple philosophies and develop their own.
That would mean that scuba diving is active/dynamic and still developing as well as changing. That is exciting.
Yes Brian I am still watching the videos 😃
Thanks dixee6.
Late to the party here. I hadn't heard the DIR term used before see thing video. I don't see the controversy here. I mean it depends on what type of diving you have planned for any particular dive. I mean when I am doing a deep wreck drive in California using a dry suit I am going to plan it one way and when I am diving off a charter boat that carters to tourist in Hawaii I am going to plan my dive differently. A guided drift on a reef in Hawaii with a max depth of maybe 40ft in warm water doesn't require the same amount of planning as an unguided wreck dive at 125ft in 55 degree water. I mean just don't be a jerk, this also means that if you are new (or an infrequent diver) to diving being honest about your skills especially what your expected air usage rate is going to be. No one likes it when they are half way though the dive and the new diver who may have over sold their skills has burned through their gas and you have to end the dive.
I dive with a local club in San Diego almost every week, and for the weeknight shore dives we also ask a bunch of questions to new divers just to make sure that everyone is on the same page and buddy pairs make sense. We don't necessarily want to pair the new diver who has just completed their AOW and is diving a 7mm wetsuit and AL80 with the grumpy veteran diver in a dry suite with a steel HP100 and pony bottle.
But sometimes that is the right call, at some point everyone was the new diver who burned through their air "too" fast. The important part is clear communications about skill levels and expectations for the dive before you head out that way everyone is both safe and having a good time.
so that;s my two cents (or buck 50 bases on word count)
Hello Andrew, we couldn't agree with you more. Sometimes, the old veteran divers (like my self) tend to forget that we were new divers at one time. This is why we try our best not to preach a particular philosophy to our students. We believe that each dive needs to be planned separate from the next, and what works on one dive, may not work for the next.
I didn't like all the crap that wanted us to do in training. It all gave me anxiety. So I just bought all my own equipment and go diving with my friends. I never got certified and never needed to .
Stay safe Kane6676.
i do not have anyone to dive with in the river where i am so i made it clear to my instructor that i will be diving alone alot. he said its a risk but he said every dive even if u are with others is a self or alone dive. u have to be self reliant.
he said there is a alone padi diving certification but i need 100 dives to even qualify for this.
my way around this is my friend jay will be in the boat. with my ocean reef mask i am gonna get the communications kit for it. i can talk to him on the surface while i am below if anything happens. i am a double redundant safety kinda guy so i will have my octo plus pony and in absolute emergency ill have a spare air.
we talked about having a rope dropped with a weight on the end. if i pull on that rope 2 times(tugs) he will start to pull it up very slowly(in case i get a cramp as what my emergency is)
he is going to get his padi also but he said in a couple of years.
this was long but we did talk about safety really well.
love your videos.
Your instructor would be correct. During all dives, each diver should be self reliant. I teach both PADI’s Self Reliant Course and SSI’s Independent Diver Course. Both are all about planning and accident management. Definitely a confidence booster and a must for anyone who will be diving alone.
I’ve been in same position as a solo diver for many many years. You have to be real quick to ‘call’ a dive if you or dive environment isn’t optimal and not push your luck. I like to have a necklace and octopus too in case of reg failure or entanglement. Rivers can be dangerous.
Well said, Brian. We need to come together not act like schoolkids with cliques. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Larry Stewart
True brother, God bless you 🌹
Thank You God Bless to you too
Fantastic video, I have to agree 100% we're all different in some ways.
Thanks sparky
It's the same I. The UK generally.
Unfortunately, it will always be like this.
Well, I guess there is definitely space for recreational diving, tec and commercial divers... as always choose your tools and gears for the task. there is no better method or one kind that is better than others... I like the skill levels of DIR divers because they use to train much more and enjoy develop their skills... on the other hand, it's our dear recreational divers who build up all the nice touristic dive sites... It depends on what you want to do enjoy the fish and dive sites or develop skills and setting up your own system? If you work as a commercial diver you anyway need to follow a given standard... I enjoy all the different sides of diving and dive for constructions, tec and recreational (and believe it or not with different setups fit to the tasks) Thanks mate for the video... keep safe
Your Welcome, and like you, I too enjoy all the different sides of diving.
Your profile pic is so cool
Thank You
Terrific video. A diver should wear what feels comfortable and safe. Once they have used the gear for a while they can enhance it to fit their diving style.
We agree 100%.
I thought you were going to mention those people who drop their tanks from their backseat 😏 i guess i am safe for now.
Btw.. i will have you know, i was looking at buying an orcatorch mask mounted light off Amazon.. and at the bottom of the page I saw a great LHS review, so i bought 2. 👌👌
Hello Rich Law, glad our review was helpful to you.
Interesting video. We have it in the UK too. Of course we are all recreational divers; as in its a hobby for nearly all of us and we should be all doing it right. IANTD, PADI, TDI, GUE are all just dive training agencies are are commercial ventures. In the UK there is also a divide between amateur training agencies e.g BSAC and professional agencies. Personally I have qualifications which span across all these divides. You are right, the love of the sport is all that matters. Thank you for your video
You are welcome. Glad you liked the video.
Very well put mate. 4yrs on from this viv we all still see obnoxious Scubaboard geniuses belittling and driving people away. Anyone not from within the exiting cliques/groups is fresh meat... like prey.
Hello A Secret, glad you liked our video.
Scuba diving is highly diverse. And with the anonymity of the internet, egos start to argument, not divers. I am guilty of this myself. When someone suggested buckles for a BP/W combi of a new diver, I jumped in and screamed "heresy!" just because I would never suggest a healthy, young person, to choose buckles and quick-adjust snaps on their harness. What followed was a discussion full of misunderstanding and false judgement. I kept my point - if you are young and healthy, a DIR style harness is not uncomfortable to don - and he kept his - you have to break your arms to don a DIR style harness.
A really frustrating scenario. I will never try to argue in favor for a DIR style Harness again, at least not on the internet...
Our standpoint on arguing, is please feel free to argue all you want. It will just be one sided though, because if someone chooses to argue, then we choose to just go diving. The great thing about being underwater is, all you hear during an argument is BUBBLE BUBBLE BUBBLE.
LakeHickoryScuba might be the best Solution 👍
It definitely works for us.
I didn't know there was actually anti certified divers. I'm not one of those kind of people. This one is my love sport. Having knowledge and responsibly is good when your not certified yet.
In every industry their will be those that believe there is only one way to do something. This is what we mean by anti scuba divers.
I think your point got lost... but as a diver for 30+ years (800+ dives) , with many newly certified dive buddies, you should focus on the initial open water course. Safety, how to put equipment back on under water, communication, checking your gauges, how to safely ascend. what to do in an unforeseen problem without panicking. What to do if you get "lost". I had all of this training in my open water class and I have yet to meet another diver that has. Agencies are no different, but dive instruction is. A good diver is a good diver, a bad diver is a disaster. I do not think anyone cares about their diving preference or gear, either they are safe or they are not.
Hello Patrick, like you, I have been diving 30+ years, and have been very fortunate to dive with 1000's of new divers. I have had a slightly different experience than you though. The dive training I received in the late 1980's is still consistent with the training I see divers receiving today. Even my students go through the same skill sets that I did. The only exception is, technology has made some of the skills obsolete, or less important. But all of the skills mentioned in your comment are still taught today. I currently teach through 5 different training agencies and they all teach the same thing. I would agree with you in the fact that it all comes down to the Instructor and not so much the agency.
good filosufi.
Thank You
I learned cave diving from a few friends that are cave certified. Same instruction, same skill training, same exercises. I can learn fast but my finances make it to where I can’t afford all the classes required to get to the “already know it” point, $800 for side mount!!!! That kind of shit! I have multiple everything and know what I’m doing. I am advanced certified and going to take stress and rescue ( because I’ve already actually did those exercises) but after that I’m not paying people to sign something saying ok I did it. I’ve been diving for about 20 years. I know what I need to know. When your equipment breaks the bank, it doesn’t leave much for the instructors. I hate greed
Hello Marty Brasher, we wish you safe diving. Take care out there and be safe. We encourage all divers to receive proper training, especially before trying a new type of diving. I would suggest shopping around to find an Instructor that you can budget.
Amen! Keep the love of the sport. People need to stop getting into their clicks and have an open mind.
Thanks cosak691985, glad you liked the video.
Sadly, I agree with a lot of 'anti-divers' commenting. I went through PADI OW in 1989, and back then, they would try to explain (at least skim over) decompression information, general check lists, final check off, your major OW Dive Points, explain that there is a LOT MORE to diving (just that they weren't giving it to you right then), small groups, STUDY TIME (my course took 4-weeks, with READING between class meetings, as well as GOOD classroom info)...and sadly, I CERTIFIED IN HAWAII!!! The modern BANE of 'warm water scam artistry' now. PADI (now considered 'Pay Another Dollar In) has turned into a stagnant 'money maintenance protocol' with ever-increasing rates for ever-decreasing content, so some 'new student' can get on a blog site asking 'is there a limit to how deep I can dive?'
I love diving, got several thousand dives to my credit, but if I don't personally know you and your skill level...I'm not diving with you, period. Yep, I've hit 'anti-diver' status, I guess.
I wouldn't say you have hit anti-diver status simply because you are picky on who you dive with. You have a right to choose who you would dive with. I too was brought up through the PADI ranks, starting in the 1980's, and I had a completely different experience. My Open Water course was 16 weeks long, and we covered all the same stuff that we teach today. We covered all gas calculations, decompression theories, tables and computers, etc. I still believe it has a lot to do with the individual instructor and not so much the agency. I currently teach through 5 different agencies, SSI, PADI, PDIC, SEI, and CMAS. Every now and again, someone will tell me that PADI instructors are better than SSI instructors. After I give them time to explain their reasoning behind their beliefs, then I throw them a curve ball and say, I teach for both SSI and PADI, so does that make me good or bad." I have yet to get a response. Point being made, some people buy into the agency, and some buy into the instructors.
Great points...because when I was in Hawaii (where I PADI OW'd), I was in the Marines at the time...and asked at least a DOZEN people I trusted, 'who has the best dive shop'...and it kept coming back as the PADI shop in Kailua...so, that was it for me...so, technically, it was 'word-of-mouth' based on instructor and shop features....
That said, I'm now hearing a LOT of bad things coming out of warm water PADI training that is quite troubling...along with PADI's founder dying and it turning into a 'banker investment scheme'...of course, the real problem is when I see kids posting comments on boards now saying 'I just finished my OW, and I just wanted to know if there's a limit to how deep I can dive' (BIG HEAD-SLAP on that one!)...
There are several details, that I won't go into here, that do bother me about 'diving instruction' in general...that 'isn't like it was'...that I think affects new divers worse than most know (like the CRIPPLING lack of technical training in most OW diving courses on decompression). While dive computers are GREAT, they seem to have become such a CRUTCH to most new divers, that I truly don't think they'd have a CLUE what to do, if their wrist band dropped their computer out of reach...we used to cover this, at least superficially, in OW...I still have my original deco table from the course...but most instructors DO NOT COVER IT NOW, even TOUCH on it! Again...bad business cutting corners that only hurts the student.
Oh, well...just an old guy complaining...I doubt what I say changes anything...but at least I know (and knew) what to do if I was at 60 feet too long to do an NDL dive and my 'computer' fell off...
I understand where you are coming from.
You know, talking on this, and mentioning something you covered in one of your videos about 'stagnation' for the various certifying agencies (I think it was in the video you mention working with SSI), is that while PADI has picked up various 'special courses' and expanded the AOW selections a bit, one thing that, I guess really hurts from my perspective (slapping the 'baby', as we used to say), is that PADI has NO SPECIAL CERTIFICATION OFFERING on surface-air diving (again, pet form of my own...diving with my gold-dredge-sluice equipment)...there are SO MANY DIFFERENCES between 'line diving' and 'tank diving', it is ALMOST a unique sport in its own...at 20-ft, I often don't wear a BCD (the dredge head weighs 30-lbs!, so I am 'fixed'), I don't have to worry about 'tank depletion', but I FAR MORE have to worry about 'excessive time' that could cause a really strange decompression requirement (lose track of time at 25-ft, and find out about 'the RASH'!) So a dive watch is CRITICAL, where a computer is not, etc...you run into obstacle issues, line entanglements...so much more that don't even AFFECT tank divers...and it is a WONDERFUL alternative method...that PADI has ZERO coverage on, that I am aware of!
Again...old man here...too many gripes...and no real availability of input to an organization's 'ear' that could hear this and help divers as a result of it...
I might not be fully 'anti-diver'...but my wife says I still resemble Jeff Dunham's character 'Walter', when it comes to my grumbling...
This is the way I look at diving. I started diving because of the enjoyment factor. I don't let an instructor, a dive shop, a training agency, or anything get in the way of that. There are so many things about all of the agencies I teach for that just makes no sense to me, but in the end, it doesn't effect my ability to go diving for fun. Somethings in this world we have no control over. We can either fuss about it, or we can throw gear on and go diving. In regards to surface supply, I'm not sure of any recreational agency to teaches it. I guess from a business aspect, they don't see a large profit value to it. I could be wrong though, just my observation.
Well said
Thanks Vtx 1800, glad you liked the video.
We deal with this all the time in amateur radio with the "anti no-code" ham radio operators. As opposed to embracing the fact the not everybody is interested in learning CW (morse code) and building the hobby, the licensed antis believe that licensed "no-coders" are inferior radio operators... It makes no sense and has turned a lot of people away from the hobby over the years. I took a five year hiatus because I got tired of hearing about it.
So I TOTALLY understand the anti (certified) scuba divers and the detriment they can impose upon the diving comunity.
It happens in every type of industry.
Great video. Now if we could remove the (certified) and add the freediver in the discussion we will get to the real hatred of SCUBA divers. It is literally out of control. As far as certified goes, everyone is an individual. As long as they are not dangerous around me, who am I to say what they should be like?
It must be a location thing. Most of the Free Divers and Scuba Divers here in our area get a long pretty well.
People love to make rules even though they have no authority to do so. One could make a rule that you
have to build a car and know how to repair it before you can drive one. That rule works as well as, you can't dive with equipment that you did not build.
It seems to me more "experts" die than novice. The novice will try to stay out of harm's way, and has nothing to prove.
Hello DannyB1954, there will always be people like that no matter the industry. I simply live and let DIVE.
I've been calling them diving snobs. They've pretty much ruined me from even bothering to ask questions or get involved in the Scuba Board community. Now I just use it to search questions or ideas, and leave without contributing. I have better things to do with my life.... like dive.
That's what we tend to do, at least underwater you don't have to listen to them.
Thats a nice statement to be making
I guess i am an anti SCUBA diver... but mainly because i have lost faith in the training that new divers receive, at least in my area. I try to help out new divers with their skills etc, but i have watched the standard slowly drop. I mean how can you produce a good, competent diver when you have saw 8 diver in an OW course, and two days to complete it. Struggling divers just dont get picked up with the high student to instructor ratio, and these divers that struggle still get certified. Although i am not DIR, i am in-line with their philosophy and believe OW divers would be better off if their first course was similar to the GUE rec 1, with a focus on good buoyancy and trim, consolidating skills etc. In my opinion there are many divers out there that have passed the very bare minimum to get their certification and their is a lot they don't know, or don't understanding about what can be a deadly sport. I have been on so many "commercial" dives where OW and AOW divers are just diving until they hit 50 bar, not monitoring depth, air pressure and not ready if something should fail (other than rush to buddy with out of air signal) I could go on, but i wont, i know that i am an "anti" SCUBA diver, for the above reasons, and i am ok with that.
ceriops123 Thank You for your comment. As much as I have seen in the last 28 years in the industry, I will agree with you that training has been dumbed down to an extent. But the percentage of this training is so microscopic compared to how many instructors there are in the world. Stating that you have lost faith in training just based off what is in your area, is not a fair belief for all instructors world wide. I encourage all who want change, to take action by becoming an instructor and start training divers to what they believe to be a higher standard. And there are ANTI-DIVERS on both side not just one or the other.
Just wondering if you are a cold water diver or a tropics diver? The reason I ask is because thirteen dives in I had my first panicked diver situation. Someone who was certified in the tropics did there first dive in the cold waters of Tobermory. The person could not equalize and shot to the surface. Only to find out at the surface they had earplugs in. After that experience I can see why people are losing faith in there fellow divers. I am definitely asking more questions next time I dive with someone new. With all that said I feel like the area I live in has a pretty sold safety standard when it comes to teaching. Something about cold water and the extra gear and care it requires. I would also say most of our open water classes max out at ten people getting certified with two instructors, one dive master, and one saftey diver on shore duty. It makes for a pretty safe environment and people get the help they need. Wondering if in the tropics people are getting the same care?
he is cold and warm, but he is narrow minded.
If this question is referring to me, I dive both Cold and Warm water on a daily basis.
ceriops123 Any government regulation against freedom is a violent act.
Government has no business issuing permits,certification, or licences.
The anit-diver... PADI = put another dollar in. just sayin'.
Business is still Business. First rule in business, never give away your services.
Call tech tech and recreational recreational. D.I.R is arrogant term better to call it Hogarthian. There are many excellent recreational divers Doing It Right and many terrible tech divers.
Hello Art Posada, I like the way you think.
YOu have much to learn about DIR. I don't think it is the way you describe at all. "the only way" is not their philosophy, not at all, not even close
I have no doubt, I always enjoy learning more as I get older, and it would be greatly appreciated to hear about your experiences with the DIR philosophy. Feel free to add more comments below, as that is part of why we have a UA-cam channel, to spark more interest in diving and to learn from others. Thank You for commenting.
If by DIR, you refer to GUE or UTD, then I can say they are not what I would call exclusive. Sure when taking their class, they have a more strict requirement both on gear selection and skill set. But once out side of the class, their divers are just another divers. They will dive with anyone safe.
Their philosophy is not to exclude. Instead, they take diving as a holistic approach. What you learn in the entry level class, can and will be used later in their deep cave exploration/tech diving. If you look at how cave or tech diving is done across many qualified agency, their approach is more or less converge. DIR just want you go start with that in mind. That is why their entry level rec class is very difficult, a lot more so than the popular commercialized agencies. Failure to pass is also a good possibility. That kind of make other feel they are exclusive, but in fact, they just have a much higher standard at the entry level.
Thank You for commenting.
sorry I fell asleep..awake now diving is diving..
perhaps they should stop calling it DIR. its really short of calling the others wrong.
Hello Lar Lario, we have another video up specifically talking about our history with DIR that you may find interesting. A lot of the technical agencies are shying away from the DIR movement.
My History with DIR
ua-cam.com/video/_w_33JB4yd4/v-deo.html
I stopped watching when you started talking gibberish about dear!
Hello Adrian, Thank You for watching our video and commenting.
@@LakeHickoryScuba dear...?? heh heh. I love SCUBA and have a freezer full of breakfast maple flavored venison sausage.