I remember the original URSA. It was the flagship Blackmagic camera when I started filmmaking and it seemed so insane all the features it had. Great video!
I love this idea for a series. Looking forward to more of them! Personally I love Blackmagic cameras and have owned many, but there's no denying that they sometimes fall short on promises.
I like how you covered the history. Companies in this industry are too busy talking about their new promises than to be bother fulling their old ones. The trend in the industry is decidedly tilted towards the mirrorless camera so it makes sense they have been concentrating on the Pocket line. URSA seems to always over promise and under deliver where as the Pocket line over delivering or newer models that are significantly improved.
Appreciate it! The thing with the URSA models is they've always produced spectacular images, but I've heard from a lot of people pre-URSA G2 that had a lot of issues, from losing footage, to sensor issues, etc. Some of that comes down to user skill and some of it really is just fringe tech that's still getting worked out. But the URSA G2 imo is their best camera. I've had ZERO issues with it and I've been everywhere with it.
This is interesting because I've watched a number of your videos now and I find them quite enjoyable and intriguing, but this is the first one that I've had quite some experience with the cameras you were talking about. The cameras these guys make are absolutely incredible and industry changing albeit with some reliability issues. I think it's fair to say that they still deliver INCREDIBLE products at the price point they do. So much so that their competitors began scrambling to deliver similar products. They also give you the easiest to use codec that ANY camera has to date as well as the single best user interface. I know that you aren't giving the history of Blackmagic as a whole and the aim of this series isn't to give a completely balanced view - but the energy of this video does suggest that Blackmagic are unreliable and screw their customers over, where in actual fact they gave many young film makers a leg up into the industry and did it by making affordable high end products, that made it accessible to make great art.
The criticism on BM in this video is valid. You and other BM fans are starting to sound like the new iteration of the largely defunct "RED cult" of yesteryear. We all know how that turned out.
I love the concept of a 10" high brightness monitor and the 5 or 7" touch monitor on both sides of the camera (I would then add a tempered glass phone type screen guard to protect against bumps). The ability to have screens for an AC or display extra settings at a glance, and such a large monitor for the camera operator would be amazing. It's like the Studio camera and the Cinema camera had a super baby called the Ursa
Rented this beast for a corporate project back in the day. Image was outstanding. The monitors were ridiculous, but incredible. I’d love to find an inexpensive used one and make it a tripod-only interview cam.
Ah, young BM where issues were rampant and accountability was absent. But then, something clicked and they started listening and have been rolling out great cameras since 2015. Great video!
Appreciate it! Yeah, this happens with any camera line. I LOVE BMD cameras. But just fun to add a little drama to it and tell the perceived sorry of the Ursa line from the outside 👀
Been shooting in the G2 for the last two years and have no real need for an updated firmware. I shoot almost exclusively in braw so I can switch to Gen 5 color in post without issue. Could understand those who shoot in ProRes wanting this though.
Some of it for me is trying to use LUT's in that are Gen 5. So you don't necessarily see what you're going to get. It makes using pocket cameras as B-cameras slightly annoying in the production stage. Nothing that can't be fixed like you said. But yeah, the URSA G2 is the best camera they've ever made so no dig at it at all. Just curious that they'd update all the other cameras to it but not this one. Tbh, would be nice if you could switch color sciences in camera. And I know that at the end of the day it's just a flatter profile with some small adjustments over Gen 4. But at times, I find it easier to deal with Gen 4 instead of Gen 5 for some projects. Especially if I'm not doing heavy grading and just a quick turnaround but want the RAW to adjust exposure in post if needed.
Ive owned and extensively used Pocket OG, Pocket 4K and Mini 4.6K Pro. Loved them all but always felt terrified on important shoots. And each had some wonky color issues. Went over to the FS7 and eventually FX series and never looked back. Going through my files here though, I can see the BM stuff did have some "magic" in the image. 6K seems like the best one they ever made. Might pick up a used one someday when the prices are under 1K.
I can’t wait to see the AJA Cion episode. Hit me up if you need any starting points. And the OG URSA was a hilariously bad. Seen it on one set and discussed FPN with the BM team in Burbank for a while. Can confirm they didn’t believe the FPN issue until we showed it to them with their our demo camera that had been in their office for months.
I love this camera and still use it on different projects today. This camera was / is a winner in my humble opinion. Had Blackmagic updated it as they promised, I believe this camera would still be in high demand today.
I think so too! Feels like after this though they went a different direction and made smaller cameras, which is great! But I'd love to see an update of the full sized URSA! Seems like a camera with great promise but one that never really got a new robust version to build on.
I had so many reliability issues with both my Pro 4.6k and Pocket 6k. Every freakin button and knob on my 4.6k had basically fallen off which was great when trying to adjust settings without having to use the finnicky touch screen. Both 6k Pockets had dead pixels we had to fix AFTER realizing they were dead on a couple shoots so that was fun. I feel like BMD releases great ideas at a great price, but their build quality due to it being cheap is well...cheap. I'm glad I'm in a position now to have moved on from them since I now have no fear on set either, like you said.
@@perseverepictures3545 Canon C70 and Red Komodo. The C70 is bulletproof and I have had 0 issues with it through hundreds of hours of footage. The Komodo is the best Red I've used as far as reliability where before I had reliability issues with Red.
I was an engineer on a competing camera introduced at NAB that year. Everyone was talking about this camera while we were getting better quality out of essentially the same sensor design. Ours had global shutter from day one, were properly calibrated, had less FPN and it didn’t weigh a metric ton. BM talks a good game but others let the gear do the talking. Unfortunately their noise swamped our signal.
imho leaving mini 4K with only cDNG and ProRes is understandable and actually working with its cDNG is very pleasant in Resolve. The worst is that there are a bunch of annoying bugs in the software, like the tally failing to notice the camera is live, the front SDI going blank and requiring a dozen reboots before it suddenly works again (I can't imagine how it would feel for somebody actually making real money with these), at some point I had failures with the start/stop/tc signals from the rear SDI, etc. I also never managed to make the camera send the overlay properly. 😑
@@FrameVoyager I'm tempted to buy the G2 or broadcast G2 🤤 However, the fact is that I suck, the 4K isn't limiting me in any meaningful way, and I should spend more time with cameras and lenses.
So I was the VP of a little film production company a few years back and our first camera purchase was a ursa. We used it extensively and was our main workhorse camera. It has a lot of quarks, and definitely wasn’t perfect, not to mention it was heavy AF and was a chore to lug around, especially after fully kitting it out, but it was a huge learning experience for us and honestly I wish it had gotten an updated model with better specs and a lighter weight because those screens and the Uber simple interface made it genuinely great to work with at times. If it wasn’t for the crazy weight (the thing is like 50lb with nothing attached, and we often used it shoulder-mounted, ugh) and a few other limitations like the sunspot issue, it could have been genuinely amazing.
I still have a "big" URSA 4K, which is an unholy matrimony of two cameras that died. My "upgrade" to the Ursa Mini 4.6 was via the same process of two deceased cameras. Prior to the Lucadaptor being released, I modified the original Ursa with an indwelling Caldwell 0.71x optical cell from a Metabones Speedbooster which increased the utility of the camera. Performance in low light became closer to the 4.6K sensor with a similar field of view from a given lens focal length. The "big" Ursa's weight is the disencouragement factor nowadays. That large screen is very convenient for a person who wears correction glasses.
Blackmagic did release a 4.6k sensor upgrade for the original Ursa later on (2017 I think) that fixes the black sun issue and increases dynamic range. A little too late maybe but still a better response than was given to many who had problems with their Mini, which I paraphrase as "lol fix it yourself." Trying to create the cheapest product that matches the best specs on paper is just going to have problems no matter what.
I think I did read that somewhere too. But yeahhh, at that point felt like it got away from them. I feel like this camera really just needed to be a little simpler and not try and be all out groundbreaking. Get a good version out and then work on some of the other things in the next versions. Gotta wonder if we'll see another full sized URSA again.
Their designs are going to go where they feel that they can earn the most money. They are very quick to "move on" when they feel there is no more real money to be made on a particular piece of gear. They are also VERY quick to send out a new piece of gear - which is both good AND bad. They could take notes from Arri and spend more time developing an absolute killer system (PLEASE stop raising the pixel count, and work on the color science!), which results in a slower cycle, but longer term ROI, especially if they make it so you can replace parts along the way - swapping out for new sensors, full software upgrades, etc. The original URSA is a TANK! I've handheld that thing, hauled it all over set, and I'm VERY glad they've since made them smaller. Pretty or not, it's an anchor!
It really is a tank 👀 and they do follow good business practices of moving on when things don't work well. But I agree! Would love extra DR and some other things more so thanks k's
I remember every one of these things. I still own my original BMPCC and when it first dropped it had that black sun issue which was quickly fixed with firmware, but the FPN still exists pretty badly, I have to denoise most slightly darker footage, but it’s still a great camera. I like that I kept the firmware that allows me to shoot Cinema DNG Raw still
More than a decade ago (almost two decades? more?), the first time I encountered a BlackMagic HDMI converter, their customer service responses to even basic technical issues on set (bad h-sync alignment) were so dismissive, that I would _never_ consider buying their products, no matter how appealing the hardware looked. Over the years, every company I know that used BM hardware in the field, came to consider their devices a crap shoot. Their small body cameras seem to work great for a majority of users, but that cannot excuse a long history of abandonware in their other product lines. For another "prosumer" company more devoted to hyping new products than ongoing product support, also see DJI.
Agreed, I mean just the simple issue of me emailing them with an issue and their official reply was "join the forum and ask there"... Which I did, then nobody replies, didn't even get the typical "have you updated the firmware?" stating of the obvious. The company does not care at all about aftercare.
Hi. New sub here. Tbh, I own the camera still. But I dont have time to explore much of it. Glad u cover on this. I had the PL mount version and I using vintage len. So far the camera wasnt too bad and when I got it in 2020 the guy sold me for 1K only for just the body.
As an AC the Ursa is fun, no nonsense and uncomplicated. A DP I work with regularly owns a G2 4.6K and swears by it; if he can’t shoot on a Alexa Mini he’ll shoot on his Ursa. I like the way it looks, did a beautiful handheld rig of it a few weeks back. But you do get a lot of gremlins. Pattern phasing is a nightmare and it gets nosy in low light (and it’s unforgiving), also if you crush blacks or burn highlights you have essentially zero room to bring it back in post. I also don’t like the weird green tinge it adds to caucasian skin tones. Oh and we need way more SDI ports. How tf am I supposed to run a teredek, EVF and Two on boards without it becoming BNC loop spaghetti
The original URSA was also insanely heavy and the large monitor really got in the way. I used it once and had horizontal lines recorded across many of the video clips. I had switched between different types of ProRes depending on what I was shooting and to save card space when needed but the camera would not play back all of the clips or show that they were ever recorded, making me think it had failed to record. It did record but much of the footage was likely unusable due to the streaks across the image.
This camera was a badass. Got to use it a couple times for some shoots and the winner of the first My Rode Reel competition used an ursa. Maybe the second year winner? I forget. But if they shrink it down and keep that right angle back unlike that slopes back shit? Gold.
I won MyRodeReel in 2016 with a GH2, Dan Mace won it in 2015 using a Red Dragon, in 2014 the winner used a Sony FS7 (not 100% on that one) I am pretty sure the Ursa Mini May have won a genre category in those years or else it was after 2016 👍 great video by the way, I won an Ursa mini 4k that year and it is an unbelievable camera in my opinion, you just gotta light properly and know the cameras limitations 👍
I bought this original Black Magic ursa and while it has some great images it is a huge disappointment, I spent years researching cameras looking for one to last some time. They abandoned the sensor upgrades (the whole point in why I bought it) they stopped software updates I really wish they would have given us Braw in this camera. But the worst part of everything when I got the camera I didn’t know about the high lights turning red/pink. I contacted support they told me it was not normal so, after spending a few hundred dollars to ship it to them. They basically told me it’s an issue they are aware of and there was nothing they could do. Lost me as a custom completely.
BMD is mainly a market shaker in cameras. They don't even service or repair cameras bought by customers....as I can attest to with TWO URSA Mini Pro 4.6k OG bodies. They fine, but we replacing them with FX6's.
Interesting... My URSA G2 had an issue last year where it wouldn't power on. Talked with them on the phone and they had me ship it in and it was fixed and back to me within a week. Maybe they've just now started paying attention to customer service just a bit more?
Perry bought DaVinci Resolve and Fairlight to Australia. 2 of the most important assets in AV. They make a huge array of studio and rack mount gear, both for semi-pros and professionals. Their entry into the market has made Indie Filmaking so much cheaper, for their competitors have had to reduce their prices.
I've used a Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k G1 several times, and its a good camera, but just for convenience and my laziness i really love their Pocket 6k pro model, its like a bigger DSLR but for movies, absolutely love that little thing, you can even put that thing on a handheld gimbal if you want
cool series but I love Blackmagic despite coming up short a few times which basically all of the cameras in this series did to greater and lesser extents. Blackmagic is the only one to stick with it and produce not only a great number of cameras that I have personally used but they gave us the best editing and color software with that camera. We would all be trying to buy old versions of digital Bolex and ursas if the hadn't or worse yet stuck with red
I was one of the first in New Zealand to buy the URSA Mini 4.6k... 3 months after getting my camera they released the Pro and almost immediately abandoned the Mini... promised updates never happened. That said I'm still using it, still loving it but still a bit hurt at the way BM lost interest in us. BM is an amazing company that has made some incredible products at good prices... however once bitten... I will think very carefully before buying another camera from them again.
@@FrameVoyager I don't know if it was a touch screen but now as touch screen technology is way better. maybe it will be more useful now to have a larger display like this.
Hope we have major image improvement in next camera , for me the 12k sensor was a half a step back compared to the 4.6k sensor in terms of overall image
Well they used that 12k sensor to get around RED's patent because of how it processes the image. I feel like they've been working behind the scenes to fix it.
@@FrameVoyager braw allready gets arround reds patents watch grants original announcement video, Nikon didn't want to pay licenceing, red sues because it's real raw & if it is the compression will offend reds patents -red are patent trolls... -
@@mariotriforce for sure! But from what I understand, it's more the way the sensor captures the raw data as well. So this new sensor might open up some extra capabilities potentially on top of what BRAW offers
I owned a Blackmagic Micro with pretty bad fixed pattern noise. I sent BMD a sample image with clear FPN and they said there was no noise. It really pissed me off.
I wasn't sure how "accurate" this was but I've heard so many people say this after making this video. Some of it I'm sure is not knowing how to use a camera but there is too many for that to always be the case. Kind of odd
@@FrameVoyager I just found the technician's reply to my ticket in my email. BMD Technician: "Thanks for sending those along. I did have a chance to take a look at them, but I'm not able to draw any conclusions based on these clips. If there is noise there at all, it's not discernible from the texture on the wall." There was no malice in the email. My impression that he was viewing the footage on a awful monitor or didn't know the difference between FPN and regular digital noise. Unfortunately the clip he reviewed was deleted from my Google drive otherwise I'd link that too. As I stated before, the noise in the clip was obvious and I was panning the camera to demonstrate that it was fixed to the sensor.
@@FrameVoyager Frankly, BMD has revolutionized the broadcast industry to such a degree that even if they had absolutely no customer service I'd still be fan. I work as a broadcast technician and engineer for Fox and I find it's often better to purchase two BMD rack mount products than one the equivalent industry leading products; it's reliable enough, and less than 1/5th the price. If it breaks, toss it, buy another, and still save money.
I have this camera and I have a red this camera smokes my red epic for image quality it’s awesome and I use it today for features and we’ll do for a long time.
I have that one tentatively on my list... But they still are technically being sold and I'm just waiting a bit to see if BMD does anything with that line this year first
@@FrameVoyager you should make Dark Cine about Red lawsuits as Red also sued Nikon for N-Raw. but i am wondering why Red never sued Blackmagic for B-Raw and why Red suing Nikon when its intoPIX who developed TicoRaw/N-Raw. there is another camera manufacturer who implemented TicoRaw for their camera. so why Red is suing Nikon not intoPIX. and you need to put a countdown for Arri Alexa S35 camera launch. there will be a live even on 31 may by ARRI.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist Dang it! Now you gave me an idea that will take up my whole weekend lol. That's a good idea! And planning on doing a live watch party on Wednesday for the ARRI release!
@@FrameVoyager i was thinking if RED wanted to ban TicoRaw/N-Raw completely they could have sued intoPIX but they are suing Nikon which doesn't exactly own this codec but they have licenced it from intoPIX. but Nikon is a bigger name and bigger company then intoPIX. so maybe Red just want Nikon to pay $$$$. Nikon Z9 can also record ProRes Raw internally but nobody mentioned it. so question is if Nikon have paid licences fee to use ProRes Raw. some people on Reddit said they are sure Nikon was well aware about everything and they with intoPIX done everything to avoid any patent issues. Hope Nikon have really good lawyers team.
This video makes me rather sad as it confirms my susspicions about BMD. I bought an ATEM mini and it was OK but in use I and many others pointed out some missing features. BMD responded by brinting out a completely new ATEM Mini (and then two more modles) fising the problems but no firmware upgrade for the ATEM Mini. Seeing what they have done in this video would stop me investing in any serious money in BMD hardware.
I have a few old Blackmagic cameras...3 BMCCs and a mini 4.6k (not pro). They do what I need them to, which isn't a high standard at this point in my detoured life plan, but they haven't had updates in years.
Oh, I don't expect updates forever. Just weird to me they updated the older Pocket4k but not the URSA G2. Honestly, just the option to update to GEN 5 would be nice just to be able to match the other cameras on set.
I think BMD had some technical issues early but have been fixed? Still have yet to play around with the URSA 12k but I have the URSA G2 which to me is their best camera. Thinking they come out with something else here soon as an upgrade to either
I remember that we ordered 2 of them right after watching the live NAB video broadcast in PL mount and a third one in EF a few weeks later camera 1 and 2 were delivered in october, first one sold in Canada ... and the problems started that day they were plagued with non-sense decisios like no way to color calibrate the huge screen and problems at birth like the camera shupping with burned led in the audio bagraph the blacksun was also affecting car headlights at night and since cars are usually moving the corrction in Resolve demanded tracking capability that resolve was lacking
The biggest problem with BMD is lack of any kind of after warranty service. Where basically if anything goes wrong after one year you are done for new purchase. Yes they do make relatively cheap hardware that usually works as advertised. But all their products have gotchas that can screw you over in professional environment.
Ahahahah, I've had the same feeling for a while. I also just don't know if raw video on a small sensor is that important of a feature to choose a bmp6k over a mirrorless fullframe with 10bit colour and autofocus. Like how much are you tweaking the footy. It's cool to have the option tho and I love their video editing suite
I just want buttons & knobs/dials on my Production Camera 4K. As for the touch screen: excellent response, fantastic simple menus and logically laid out (hoorah, no options 243 layers deep! (cough Panasonic cough)), but I want to set the shutter speed or frame rate with a dial - not by pressing a button, then poking the screen twice or more (especially since it's more or less impossible to see anything on it in daylight).
The thing that sucks is, they're still selling the 4.6K at the same price point as the 12K(!?). It would make sense at this point to either lower the price of the 4.6K or just discontinue it altogether, right?
This is my first cine cam in 2017, I brought a sec hand one and used it for a year and finish my first short film in my life. It has the top spec really at that time, 4K 120p raw, only red could do that. It's also the most silent cam I've ever used(I think there's a whole water cooling system built inside the cam) but it also makes it so so so heavy, even heavier than the alexas, it's a pain to use, I almost break my back several times when using it. I finally sold it after a year, but it gives me deep impression in terms of color, image Quilty and BMD the company. In the year, I learnt color grade and a lot of skills. In the day after I keep using BMD products like pcc4k and 6k, until last year I can afford a Red Monstro VV and go to the red team. All in all, thank u URSA, although you weights a ton of Sh**
Ahh so that's why the most expensive line of cameras by BMD is Ursa *Mini* but no non-mini Ursa ever been found. Despite the fact that the Mini is "standard-sized" for a professional grade cinema camera.
The place were I studied audio visual comunication had these, and they are great to be handled by students but as soon as I got out and worked with other cameras I noticed how awful the Ursa is, sad because is a good concept
I had a 4.6k ursa mini that I purchased immediately on release. Within 3 years they said it was vintage and wouldn't service it or new firmware. I'm done with blackmagic.
I think they've overcome that hurdle. The older URSA's had a lot of issues. But the URSA G2 imo is one of the best. They got that URSA line right with the G2 which makes it confusing that they wouldn't update the software on it
It’s only a matter of time before they discontinue support for the G2. I’m having intermittent issues with my G1, 4 year old camera, and they say it’s irreparable due to no more manufactured parts. BMD does not stand behind the longevity of their products in the slightest. Now I’m left with a paperweight, that I can only bring on shoots with a high level of anxiety that it may not cooperate when it needs to
I dont know, I have a hate and love realtionship with BMD. Davinici and Fusion is amazing. But I had several Decklink Capture Cards fail on me while production. Colors where always off and there was no way to get them right somehow, the colors werent even consistent from one card to the other. HDMI and SDI Version different resolution targets... just horrible really. In the end we used a cheaper Elgato Gaming Capture Card with a SDI to HDMI converter and it was more reliable and the colors were fine, no greenish tint anymore and the Limited/Full RGB Range seems to work properly. Thats really sad for a Prosumer Capture Card BMD... The only BMD Camera I had actuall contact with was one of these micro cinema cameras, these are nice, tiny cameras with good enough image quality, what a niche product. Though dont know how reliable these are.
I still own one of these original Blackmagic Ursa 4K cameras and love it. It's really just used for big rig practice on my Steadicam nowadays but it's a camera that always piqued my interest and other then the FPN, the not so great low light, and the black hole sun it's a great camera. I used to have the AJA CION too, loved how the camera looked, but not so much the look the camera provided. It used the same sensor as these original ursa cameras if I'm not mistaken, so you were plagued with some similar issues but worst of all was the highlight roll off. It would have a harsh blue transition between any clipped area and highlights that would disrupt the image and the sun was black hole city. When properly exposed the image was great and just had an air of authenticity to it, but to get that was a real piece of work. Not to mention the AJA proprietary media, the PAK cards which were closing in on $1k USD for 1TB, and the lack of third party accessories for the camera made it quite expensive to Kit out even though they had built the camera with ease of use in mind. The shoulder pad was comfortable for a brief period of time, but it had no adjustability and when using any slightly heavy lens the camera was too front heavy to hand hold for extended periods of time due to the pad being far back on the camera. Menu system was a pain to scroll through on the operator side dial and button system and the volume rockers for the XLR ports constantly got stuck in the locked position because of the click in click out button system. Lovely camera, but not surprised they died off. Their external recorder technology is great, but didn't translate to their cinema camera attempt. Would love to get another one sometime for the archive though all things said
If I want to shoot 8K-12K HDR video, then I should choose the camera's LUT is this: Gen 5 Film to Rec 2020 PQ Gamma, but I chose this LUT, I found that the brightness of my video is not enough, it is rare that I should choose Gen 5 film Gen 5 Film to Extend1 or 2 ? my camera is Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro 12K
Since early 2021, l have asked BMD support many times about the Gen 5 firmware update for the UMP G2, but I didn't get any clear answer : they are aware that users want it but they don't have any information about it. As you said, this is a bummer considering this camera is newer than the P4K and that the G2 is their flagship product.
I know some people think I'm just straight trashing the URSA line in this video, but I'm not. LOVE my URSA G2 and I get that software updates are not offered very long on cameras, but to update the older pocket 4k to gen 5 and not the URSA G2? Either they can't do it because it's a software and sensor issue or it's no worth it to do it? It really has to be some kind of technical issue that keeps them from doing it, I would be blown away if it wasn't
@@FrameVoyager yep, I also own a G2 but I can’t understand why the older pocket cameras are getting Gen5 and not the G2. If it’s a technical issue, then they could communicate it to the customers/owners. I don’t believe it’s a technical problem as far as this is just a softer log curve and some color saturation tweaks between Gen4 and Gen5, nothing very difficult to handle in my opinion.
@@bastienchill Yeahhh, BMD is fairly quiet on a lot of things though so not surprising that we don't have a reason for it yet. But yeah, I feel like the color science should be fairly easy to change up but I also don't build cameras so what do I know haha
Blackmagic has always been a weird company to me, i used to shoot with the original 4k all the time and then the first ursa mini but never liked them honestly. At this point i just kind of avoid them, just a pain to work in post with.
I find that everyone I know in the industry won't touch Blackmagic Cameras. Not because they suck or because they are unreliable but the company itself is just unreliable and their cameras tend to always be handicapped in one way or another. Just like the Ursa. I use Sony for everything, I love having my everyday camera using the same mount as my expensive camera rentals. That and Sony makes wonderful equipment that's pretty much bulletproof.
I think blackmagic’s only hope is to make an amazingly impressive micro cinema camera. 4K DGO sensor with 14+ dynamic range and 120fps. Full reliable smart phone control/monitoring. Same body size, and $1300 max. THEN they will steal people away from Sony A7Siii/A7IV, canon R5, etc. Otherwise, their specs just aren’t competitive the way they used to be
I almost fully agree except that price limit. Roll the clocks back to 2018, we were all expecting the BMPCC4K to effectively match the GH5S spec and pricewise, but include the internal 12-bit RAW that Panny was too p***y to implement (and still is to this day for the smaller cams that could have been given CFast 2) ...all for $2000-$2500. We all lost our 💩 when that $1300 price tag as unveiled. Today they could release exactly what you suggested, which is also right along my lines of prediction for July or August this summer, but at up to $1600 and they'd be fine to do so. They'd likely have to, due the chip shortage and governments/customs still pretending they have to overcomplicate overseas shipping due to COVID when reality is, the adjustments were and are simple and need not burden anyone anymore. Sorry for tangents. But yeah, I'd expect that to be just a little bit more than $1300, but very well worth it!
@@RenegadeFilmForce I agree it could be more than $1300 and be successful. But with canon releasing such low cost apsc cameras with 10bit and dual pixel autofocus… the market is tougher. Also, the GH cameras have way more premium stuff built into them than the pocket 4K, like IBIS, weather sealing and build quality, dual card slots, view finder, etc that sort of justified the higher cost. The micro cinema but with updated specs really cannot cost more than $1500 to be really competitive into today’s market. Unless… LiDar autofocus! Lol
don't know if they can do it again at 1300$ after all the inflation. but they should use URSA mini 4.6k sensor which can do 4k 120fps. a more compact Mirrorless style body with better battery life. and I would like to see Cube body cameras too. they can just develop new sensors for next gen BMPCC 4k/6k and also put those sensor in Cube bodies as they used BMPCC 6k sensor in Ursa broadcast camera.
@@captainradio5894 Probably meant only hope for a new market-shaking cash-cow on the same or similar level to what the P4K was for its first couple years.
@@RenegadeFilmForce yea, obviously the company is doing great over all and their pocket cameras are far from their only focus. I’m just saying if they want to dominate the consumer/indie filmmaking market once again, they need to lure everyone away from something like a Sony A7IV, canon R7, fuji XT4, or even Panasonic S5. I have faith they’ll do it though, they generally always demonstrate a good reading of the current market conditions
The CinemaDNG RAW ability on the URSA V1 (my favourite) makes them highly sought after. It allows CinemaDNG RAW 4K 120FPS. The newer cameras only have Blackmagic RAW compressed formats which might be fine if you are used to the bad quality compression as standard on a Red or a Sony cine camera, but is a dealbreaker for me. Remember 4K CinemaDNG Raw is better quality than 16K compressed REDRAW or Blackmagic RAW. Meaning you can upscale to 16K compressed. ;) I just gave you a free 16K upgrade ;) Now get two CFast to SATA adapters (on ebay) and use dual Samsung SSDs that can write at 400MB/s+ so you can get CinemaDNG RAW 120FPS. (it needs the dual high speed cards or SSDs to use it)The FPN on these sensors might seem like a lot to deal with, but its easily forgiven. Just make your own FPN pattern and then use maxon red giant magic bullet AI denoiser. Can also use the Nvidia Optix AI denoiser, but magic bullet is the industry standard. Look at the comparison here: ua-cam.com/video/Pwii8ia_1Ms/v-deo.html
Blackmagic has the most realistic color compared to ARRI. Sony and Red don't come close. With maybe Canon being a little better, especially on skin tones. The trick is to use a Tiffen Water White IRND filter. This is the magic trick that makes the picture look as good as an ARRI. Without it the infrared makes everything look weird. ARRI has these built into the camera. If you put one of these on the lens of your Blackmagic URSA or Production Camera, it fixes all the weird color stuff and makes it into a truly high end picture.
CDNG > Redcode. CDNG > braw. Cine cameras should have CDNG on their cameras as standard. You are far far away from true 4K or even 8K if you don't have CDNG. 4K redcode or braw is closer to CDNG 720p upscaled to 4K if you pixel peep. The bitrate proves this. Try it and you will see. Arri has CDNG for a reason. And Red can't touch them, because Arri can counter sue with literally thousands of patents they own, having invented Cine cameras. The true reason why Blackmagic dropped the URSA V1 and removed CDNG is a result of Red Digital Camera’s patent US9245314, which covers in-camera recording of lossless compressed raw video. Red is holding back the whole industry and forcing everyone to use shitty compressed codecs for no reason and worst of all. Red does not even use CDNG in their own cameras, but wants to stop everyone else who does. if you buy a Red camera, know that you are supporting holding the industry back and preventing the use of lossless video codecs.
That's what I've heard. And it's weird because it's a mix of people who just don't know how to expose correctly, but also people with legitimate issues with the FPN in the sensor. Kind of confusing haha
Am I the only one who thinks they need to rename the URSA Mini Pro to just be the URSA Pro? Then they could make an URSA Mini which is a box camera (Like the Alexa Mini). Just one of my random laying in bed at 3am thoughts.
I love it, it’s made for classic crew layouts and makes you think about every decision, forcing you to plan ahead. It’s a machine that teaches you how to do your work precisely.
Yep! It really was designed larger to be used by full crews and not just one person. Though you can operate it by yourself, it doesn't seem like it would be very fun haha. Kinda want to buy or rent one of those for NAB next year and walk around with it haha
@@FrameVoyager If you want one for cheap, look for the Production Camera 4k - it's basically the same camera (same sensor, still global shutter) except for a smaller perpendicular form factor (still weighs 1.7kg!), it only does 30FPS maximum, and has slightly compressed CDNG maximum to fit the write speed of the single SSD it uses. Also, no water cooling - it has a fan instead (which is probably inadequate; I think in dark/underexposed situations the FPN gets worse the longer you record, but I could be imagining it. Annoyingly, the fan's vent gets mostly covered by my tripod plate, exacerbating this.)
As a 4.6K Pro owner, this hurt to watch. Great series concept.
Appreciate it! Have the next one out tomorrow on the RED 28k sensor. But the URSA camera line was interesting, still love my G2 tho!!
I own 3 of them - one of them has the FPN noise issue. This is also the same one that has issues re-booting after it has "warmed up"
my ursa mini 4.6k died after 4ys now I have a brick.
I have a 4.6K Pro... still going strong!
I remember the original URSA. It was the flagship Blackmagic camera when I started filmmaking and it seemed so insane all the features it had. Great video!
Appreciate it!
I love this idea for a series. Looking forward to more of them! Personally I love Blackmagic cameras and have owned many, but there's no denying that they sometimes fall short on promises.
More to come! Probably going to try and make a bunch of them at once and release them in seasons!
That original Ursa still looks amazing to me even to this day.
It’s an amazing camera, we have 2 of them and still working like a charm
I like how you covered the history. Companies in this industry are too busy talking about their new promises than to be bother fulling their old ones.
The trend in the industry is decidedly tilted towards the mirrorless camera so it makes sense they have been concentrating on the Pocket line. URSA seems to always over promise and under deliver where as the Pocket line over delivering or newer models that are significantly improved.
Appreciate it! The thing with the URSA models is they've always produced spectacular images, but I've heard from a lot of people pre-URSA G2 that had a lot of issues, from losing footage, to sensor issues, etc. Some of that comes down to user skill and some of it really is just fringe tech that's still getting worked out. But the URSA G2 imo is their best camera. I've had ZERO issues with it and I've been everywhere with it.
@@FrameVoyager In general BM appeal has been they give you more for less money but that comes at the expense of reliability.
This is interesting because I've watched a number of your videos now and I find them quite enjoyable and intriguing, but this is the first one that I've had quite some experience with the cameras you were talking about.
The cameras these guys make are absolutely incredible and industry changing albeit with some reliability issues. I think it's fair to say that they still deliver INCREDIBLE products at the price point they do. So much so that their competitors began scrambling to deliver similar products. They also give you the easiest to use codec that ANY camera has to date as well as the single best user interface.
I know that you aren't giving the history of Blackmagic as a whole and the aim of this series isn't to give a completely balanced view - but the energy of this video does suggest that Blackmagic are unreliable and screw their customers over, where in actual fact they gave many young film makers a leg up into the industry and did it by making affordable high end products, that made it accessible to make great art.
The criticism on BM in this video is valid. You and other BM fans are starting to sound like the new iteration of the largely defunct "RED cult" of yesteryear. We all know how that turned out.
Idk man cutting support to the 4.6k pro and only focusing on the 12k is stupid bro
I love the concept of a 10" high brightness monitor and the 5 or 7" touch monitor on both sides of the camera (I would then add a tempered glass phone type screen guard to protect against bumps).
The ability to have screens for an AC or display extra settings at a glance, and such a large monitor for the camera operator would be amazing.
It's like the Studio camera and the Cinema camera had a super baby called the Ursa
Oooooo 👀 I like that idea
It was a good idea but in the end the original ursa was very very heavy.
@@GlennHanns That's what I've heard! haha
Must be nice to look back at your comment and see how they implemented just that in the current Ursa release
Rented this beast for a corporate project back in the day. Image was outstanding. The monitors were ridiculous, but incredible. I’d love to find an inexpensive used one and make it a tripod-only interview cam.
I really want to get one too after making this video! haha
Side note: not only the did the HDMI model never ship... neither did the B4 sensor model. It was abandoned also.
Ah yeah, you're right 🤔 I think that HDMI one was so bizarre kind of forgot about that one haha
Neither did they really fix the Black Sun Blot on the 2.5K sensor.
Love your stuff deity!
Ah, young BM where issues were rampant and accountability was absent. But then, something clicked and they started listening and have been rolling out great cameras since 2015. Great video!
Appreciate it! Yeah, this happens with any camera line. I LOVE BMD cameras. But just fun to add a little drama to it and tell the perceived sorry of the Ursa line from the outside 👀
Been shooting in the G2 for the last two years and have no real need for an updated firmware. I shoot almost exclusively in braw so I can switch to Gen 5 color in post without issue. Could understand those who shoot in ProRes wanting this though.
Some of it for me is trying to use LUT's in that are Gen 5. So you don't necessarily see what you're going to get. It makes using pocket cameras as B-cameras slightly annoying in the production stage. Nothing that can't be fixed like you said. But yeah, the URSA G2 is the best camera they've ever made so no dig at it at all. Just curious that they'd update all the other cameras to it but not this one.
Tbh, would be nice if you could switch color sciences in camera. And I know that at the end of the day it's just a flatter profile with some small adjustments over Gen 4. But at times, I find it easier to deal with Gen 4 instead of Gen 5 for some projects. Especially if I'm not doing heavy grading and just a quick turnaround but want the RAW to adjust exposure in post if needed.
Ive owned and extensively used Pocket OG, Pocket 4K and Mini 4.6K Pro. Loved them all but always felt terrified on important shoots. And each had some wonky color issues. Went over to the FS7 and eventually FX series and never looked back. Going through my files here though, I can see the BM stuff did have some "magic" in the image. 6K seems like the best one they ever made. Might pick up a used one someday when the prices are under 1K.
The URSA G2 is their culmination masterpiece tbh. It's the camera they got right, which is why it's so perplexing that they don't update it.
I can’t wait to see the AJA Cion episode. Hit me up if you need any starting points. And the OG URSA was a hilariously bad. Seen it on one set and discussed FPN with the BM team in Burbank for a while. Can confirm they didn’t believe the FPN issue until we showed it to them with their our demo camera that had been in their office for months.
👀 wow! Would love any starting points for the AJA Cion! Creating a whole list of them 😂
@@lauraonline3251 no
I love this camera and still use it on different projects today. This camera was / is a winner in my humble opinion. Had Blackmagic updated it as they promised, I believe this camera would still be in high demand today.
I think so too! Feels like after this though they went a different direction and made smaller cameras, which is great! But I'd love to see an update of the full sized URSA! Seems like a camera with great promise but one that never really got a new robust version to build on.
I had so many reliability issues with both my Pro 4.6k and Pocket 6k. Every freakin button and knob on my 4.6k had basically fallen off which was great when trying to adjust settings without having to use the finnicky touch screen. Both 6k Pockets had dead pixels we had to fix AFTER realizing they were dead on a couple shoots so that was fun. I feel like BMD releases great ideas at a great price, but their build quality due to it being cheap is well...cheap. I'm glad I'm in a position now to have moved on from them since I now have no fear on set either, like you said.
@@CinemaSteve What are you using now to not jave fear on the set?
@@perseverepictures3545 Canon C70 and Red Komodo. The C70 is bulletproof and I have had 0 issues with it through hundreds of hours of footage. The Komodo is the best Red I've used as far as reliability where before I had reliability issues with Red.
I was an engineer on a competing camera introduced at NAB that year. Everyone was talking about this camera while we were getting better quality out of essentially the same sensor design. Ours had global shutter from day one, were properly calibrated, had less FPN and it didn’t weigh a metric ton. BM talks a good game but others let the gear do the talking. Unfortunately their noise swamped our signal.
Interesting... Would that be the AJA Cion?
@@FrameVoyager Yep. It wasn’t perfect but it was a solid camera given the constraints/tradeoffs that inevitably arise in engineering.
@@Co-opSource what about pricing. Because that is how they wacked everyone
@@lukelim5094 If “they” is BM & their pricing, it’s easy to “sell” an under priced & over promised product if you then abandon it. 🤷🏼♂️
Actually have that camera in my abandoned lineup! Any interesting information on it?
imho leaving mini 4K with only cDNG and ProRes is understandable and actually working with its cDNG is very pleasant in Resolve. The worst is that there are a bunch of annoying bugs in the software, like the tally failing to notice the camera is live, the front SDI going blank and requiring a dozen reboots before it suddenly works again (I can't imagine how it would feel for somebody actually making real money with these), at some point I had failures with the start/stop/tc signals from the rear SDI, etc. I also never managed to make the camera send the overlay properly. 😑
Yeahhhh... They've really fixed the latest cameras up a lot better. The URSA G2 is one of my favorite cameras.
@@FrameVoyager I'm tempted to buy the G2 or broadcast G2 🤤 However, the fact is that I suck, the 4K isn't limiting me in any meaningful way, and I should spend more time with cameras and lenses.
So I was the VP of a little film production company a few years back and our first camera purchase was a ursa. We used it extensively and was our main workhorse camera. It has a lot of quarks, and definitely wasn’t perfect, not to mention it was heavy AF and was a chore to lug around, especially after fully kitting it out, but it was a huge learning experience for us and honestly I wish it had gotten an updated model with better specs and a lighter weight because those screens and the Uber simple interface made it genuinely great to work with at times. If it wasn’t for the crazy weight (the thing is like 50lb with nothing attached, and we often used it shoulder-mounted, ugh) and a few other limitations like the sunspot issue, it could have been genuinely amazing.
I still have a "big" URSA 4K, which is an unholy matrimony of two cameras that died. My "upgrade" to the Ursa Mini 4.6 was via the same process of two deceased cameras. Prior to the Lucadaptor being released, I modified the original Ursa with an indwelling Caldwell 0.71x optical cell from a Metabones Speedbooster which increased the utility of the camera. Performance in low light became closer to the 4.6K sensor with a similar field of view from a given lens focal length. The "big" Ursa's weight is the disencouragement factor nowadays. That large screen is very convenient for a person who wears correction glasses.
You should do a video on Sharp's, yes Sharp's, 8K, MFT camera that's yet to be released.
Good one! I'll add it to the list!
Blackmagic did release a 4.6k sensor upgrade for the original Ursa later on (2017 I think) that fixes the black sun issue and increases dynamic range. A little too late maybe but still a better response than was given to many who had problems with their Mini, which I paraphrase as "lol fix it yourself." Trying to create the cheapest product that matches the best specs on paper is just going to have problems no matter what.
I think I did read that somewhere too. But yeahhh, at that point felt like it got away from them. I feel like this camera really just needed to be a little simpler and not try and be all out groundbreaking. Get a good version out and then work on some of the other things in the next versions. Gotta wonder if we'll see another full sized URSA again.
Their designs are going to go where they feel that they can earn the most money. They are very quick to "move on" when they feel there is no more real money to be made on a particular piece of gear. They are also VERY quick to send out a new piece of gear - which is both good AND bad. They could take notes from Arri and spend more time developing an absolute killer system (PLEASE stop raising the pixel count, and work on the color science!), which results in a slower cycle, but longer term ROI, especially if they make it so you can replace parts along the way - swapping out for new sensors, full software upgrades, etc.
The original URSA is a TANK! I've handheld that thing, hauled it all over set, and I'm VERY glad they've since made them smaller. Pretty or not, it's an anchor!
It really is a tank 👀 and they do follow good business practices of moving on when things don't work well. But I agree! Would love extra DR and some other things more so thanks k's
This video reminded me that I did a wrestling gig where we shot with an original Ursa, and a Panasonic EVA1… Feels like a fever dream at this point.
Very interesting, man. Didn’t know about this camera! Love this idea of making these series of videos. Jumping into the next one ☝️. Thanks
Hope you enjoy it!
I remember every one of these things. I still own my original BMPCC and when it first dropped it had that black sun issue which was quickly fixed with firmware, but the FPN still exists pretty badly, I have to denoise most slightly darker footage, but it’s still a great camera. I like that I kept the firmware that allows me to shoot Cinema DNG Raw still
More than a decade ago (almost two decades? more?), the first time I encountered a BlackMagic HDMI converter, their customer service responses to even basic technical issues on set (bad h-sync alignment) were so dismissive, that I would _never_ consider buying their products, no matter how appealing the hardware looked. Over the years, every company I know that used BM hardware in the field, came to consider their devices a crap shoot. Their small body cameras seem to work great for a majority of users, but that cannot excuse a long history of abandonware in their other product lines.
For another "prosumer" company more devoted to hyping new products than ongoing product support, also see DJI.
Spot-on, Prophetman.
Agreed, I mean just the simple issue of me emailing them with an issue and their official reply was "join the forum and ask there"... Which I did, then nobody replies, didn't even get the typical "have you updated the firmware?" stating of the obvious. The company does not care at all about aftercare.
Hi. New sub here. Tbh, I own the camera still. But I dont have time to explore much of it. Glad u cover on this. I had the PL mount version and I using vintage len. So far the camera wasnt too bad and when I got it in 2020 the guy sold me for 1K only for just the body.
Thanks for subscribing! And yeah, I think this camera is great! Just think they swung for the fences a bit on this one. Want to get one myself!
Nice job with the Red 28k to this video transition, Loved both videos
As an AC the Ursa is fun, no nonsense and uncomplicated. A DP I work with regularly owns a G2 4.6K and swears by it; if he can’t shoot on a Alexa Mini he’ll shoot on his Ursa. I like the way it looks, did a beautiful handheld rig of it a few weeks back. But you do get a lot of gremlins. Pattern phasing is a nightmare and it gets nosy in low light (and it’s unforgiving), also if you crush blacks or burn highlights you have essentially zero room to bring it back in post. I also don’t like the weird green tinge it adds to caucasian skin tones. Oh and we need way more SDI ports. How tf am I supposed to run a teredek, EVF and Two on boards without it becoming BNC loop spaghetti
The original URSA was also insanely heavy and the large monitor really got in the way. I used it once and had horizontal lines recorded across many of the video clips. I had switched between different types of ProRes depending on what I was shooting and to save card space when needed but the camera would not play back all of the clips or show that they were ever recorded, making me think it had failed to record. It did record but much of the footage was likely unusable due to the streaks across the image.
That screen is comically huge. But its useful for judging exposure and focus i guess.
Right? 😂
Those audiometers are very awesome though.
Right!? Super stylish. Love how they look. Honestly, it's a pretty sick camera. I think they just tried too much with it
I actually thought about buying this camera, so glad I didn’t, especially if we look at the file sizes
Yeah it's an interesting one for sure. Large file sizes... I've thought about buying one and bringing it around NAB or something next time around haha
Dude that screen should go on every Ursa
haha it's MASSIVE
Cool....Do the AJA Cion next!
Oooo... What's the story there? Actively looking for examples like this to track down and do more videos of
This camera was a badass. Got to use it a couple times for some shoots and the winner of the first My Rode Reel competition used an ursa. Maybe the second year winner? I forget. But if they shrink it down and keep that right angle back unlike that slopes back shit? Gold.
Right? Thinking about getting on for fun at some point. But if they could fix a few things with it, slap that new 12k sensor in it 👀 🌶️🌶️🌶️
Right? Thinking about getting on for fun at some point. But if they could fix a few things with it, slap that new 12k sensor in it 👀 🌶️🌶️🌶️
I won MyRodeReel in 2016 with a GH2, Dan Mace won it in 2015 using a Red Dragon, in 2014 the winner used a Sony FS7 (not 100% on that one) I am pretty sure the Ursa Mini May have won a genre category in those years or else it was after 2016 👍 great video by the way, I won an Ursa mini 4k that year and it is an unbelievable camera in my opinion, you just gotta light properly and know the cameras limitations 👍
I bought this original Black Magic ursa and while it has some great images it is a huge disappointment, I spent years researching cameras looking for one to last some time. They abandoned the sensor upgrades (the whole point in why I bought it) they stopped software updates I really wish they would have given us Braw in this camera. But the worst part of everything when I got the camera I didn’t know about the high lights turning red/pink. I contacted support they told me it was not normal so, after spending a few hundred dollars to ship it to them. They basically told me it’s an issue they are aware of and there was nothing they could do. Lost me as a custom completely.
They made a 12k camera for under $10,000 (Australian) I say they certainly achieved their goal of cheap high end gear
We still use the URSA to shoot sessions and it works great. A software update would be nice though
I own an Ursa Mini Pro G2, it has gen 5 color science in an update.
Is it the broadcast G2?
BMD is mainly a market shaker in cameras. They don't even service or repair cameras bought by customers....as I can attest to with TWO URSA Mini Pro 4.6k OG bodies. They fine, but we replacing them with FX6's.
Interesting... My URSA G2 had an issue last year where it wouldn't power on. Talked with them on the phone and they had me ship it in and it was fixed and back to me within a week. Maybe they've just now started paying attention to customer service just a bit more?
Perry bought DaVinci Resolve and Fairlight to Australia. 2 of the most important assets in AV. They make a huge array of studio and rack mount gear, both for semi-pros and professionals. Their entry into the market has made Indie Filmaking so much cheaper, for their competitors have had to reduce their prices.
your going to need to chk out the Arri 35 . I think we might be surprised on how affordable they will make it. Wishful thinking.
Oh I have been 😂 had all the info before it got leaked to everyone lol. Doing a watch party for it on Wednesday!
The OG Ursa body, while insanely heavy, was EPIC.
I've used a Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k G1 several times, and its a good camera, but just for convenience and my laziness i really love their Pocket 6k pro model, its like a bigger DSLR but for movies, absolutely love that little thing, you can even put that thing on a handheld gimbal if you want
cool series but I love Blackmagic despite coming up short a few times which basically all of the cameras in this series did to greater and lesser extents. Blackmagic is the only one to stick with it and produce not only a great number of cameras that I have personally used but they gave us the best editing and color software with that camera. We would all be trying to buy old versions of digital Bolex and ursas if the hadn't or worse yet stuck with red
Would love to see an episode like this on Fuji.
that dramatic music at the end... fucking loved it! :ddd
I was one of the first in New Zealand to buy the URSA Mini 4.6k... 3 months after getting my camera they released the Pro and almost immediately abandoned the Mini... promised updates never happened. That said I'm still using it, still loving it but still a bit hurt at the way BM lost interest in us. BM is an amazing company that has made some incredible products at good prices... however once bitten... I will think very carefully before buying another camera from them again.
Can you do Cine Alta F65? Also something that you can hardly find information of and it seems like an experiment from SONY
I'll add it to the list!
That huge viewfinder though woooow
Haha right? 👀
that massive display @0:09 😍
Right?! 👀
@@FrameVoyager I don't know if it was a touch screen but now as touch screen technology is way better. maybe it will be more useful now to have a larger display like this.
Black magic like me! I know I’m looking at the craziness abandoned video camera
Hope we have major image improvement in next camera , for me the 12k sensor was a half a step back compared to the 4.6k sensor in terms of overall image
Well they used that 12k sensor to get around RED's patent because of how it processes the image. I feel like they've been working behind the scenes to fix it.
@@FrameVoyager what patent you talk about ?
@@chicobraz4335 ymcinema.com/2022/05/27/red-sues-nikon-over-infringement-of-compressed-raw-patents/
Has to do with the raw parents
@@FrameVoyager braw allready gets arround reds patents watch grants original announcement video, Nikon didn't want to pay licenceing, red sues because it's real raw & if it is the compression will offend reds patents -red are patent trolls... -
@@mariotriforce for sure! But from what I understand, it's more the way the sensor captures the raw data as well. So this new sensor might open up some extra capabilities potentially on top of what BRAW offers
URSA G2 owner here:
Blackmagic basically was like if it aint broke dont fix it 😊
I owned a Blackmagic Micro with pretty bad fixed pattern noise.
I sent BMD a sample image with clear FPN and they said there was no noise. It really pissed me off.
I wasn't sure how "accurate" this was but I've heard so many people say this after making this video. Some of it I'm sure is not knowing how to use a camera but there is too many for that to always be the case. Kind of odd
@@FrameVoyager I just found the technician's reply to my ticket in my email.
BMD Technician: "Thanks for sending those along. I did have a chance to take a look at them, but I'm not able to draw any conclusions based on these clips. If there is noise there at all, it's not discernible from the texture on the wall."
There was no malice in the email. My impression that he was viewing the footage on a awful monitor or didn't know the difference between FPN and regular digital noise. Unfortunately the clip he reviewed was deleted from my Google drive otherwise I'd link that too. As I stated before, the noise in the clip was obvious and I was panning the camera to demonstrate that it was fixed to the sensor.
@@SimplestUsername 🤔 interesting! They've definitely upped their customer service in the last few years
@@FrameVoyager Frankly, BMD has revolutionized the broadcast industry to such a degree that even if they had absolutely no customer service I'd still be fan. I work as a broadcast technician and engineer for Fox and I find it's often better to purchase two BMD rack mount products than one the equivalent industry leading products; it's reliable enough, and less than 1/5th the price. If it breaks, toss it, buy another, and still save money.
@@SimplestUsername absolutely! Honestly their cinema stuff is just a bonus.😅
hate the sensor but love the concept. decent 10inch field monitor is very rare now.
BRO how did they scrap their best-looking camera yet??
Right? Hope they bring it back!
The g2 can use gen 5 color science if you edit in divinci and you can get a gen 4 to gen 5 extended video LUT to preview gen 5 colors in camera
Yep! It can. Still shouldn't be hard to update it so I can choose to just film in that.
I have this camera and I have a red this camera smokes my red epic for image quality it’s awesome and I use it today for features and we’ll do for a long time.
I've heard it's pretty good! I wish they had continued to make this line of cameras! Maybe just tone down the extras. Hope they make a new one someday
U know what devices was abandoned by black magic,the micro...... The micro was such an innovation and would succeed today with a new refresh to 4K.
I have that one tentatively on my list... But they still are technically being sold and I'm just waiting a bit to see if BMD does anything with that line this year first
I remember seeing these in person at NAB when it was announced
WOW! That must have been pretty cool? Kinda want to get my hands on one for the next NAB and walk around filming with it haha
intro sounds like i get into some Dark Tech , Dark Skies channel content but its about Cine cameras 😂😂 Dark Cine lol
May or may not have been going to a Defunctland/dark skies kinda style haha. I like Dark cine! But more of this series to come!
@@FrameVoyager you should make Dark Cine about Red lawsuits as Red also sued Nikon for N-Raw. but i am wondering why Red never sued Blackmagic for B-Raw and why Red suing Nikon when its intoPIX who developed TicoRaw/N-Raw. there is another camera manufacturer who implemented TicoRaw for their camera. so why Red is suing Nikon not intoPIX.
and you need to put a countdown for Arri Alexa S35 camera launch. there will be a live even on 31 may by ARRI.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist Dang it! Now you gave me an idea that will take up my whole weekend lol. That's a good idea!
And planning on doing a live watch party on Wednesday for the ARRI release!
@@FrameVoyager i was thinking if RED wanted to ban TicoRaw/N-Raw completely they could have sued intoPIX but they are suing Nikon which doesn't exactly own this codec but they have licenced it from intoPIX. but Nikon is a bigger name and bigger company then intoPIX. so maybe Red just want Nikon to pay $$$$.
Nikon Z9 can also record ProRes Raw internally but nobody mentioned it. so question is if Nikon have paid licences fee to use ProRes Raw.
some people on Reddit said they are sure Nikon was well aware about everything and they with intoPIX done everything to avoid any patent issues.
Hope Nikon have really good lawyers team.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist yeahh, from what I'm reading it sounds like they knew this would likely get sued so bet they were ready to fight
Welp looks like they brought it back with the Ursa Cine line 😮💨
This video makes me rather sad as it confirms my susspicions about BMD. I bought an ATEM mini and it was OK but in use I and many others pointed out some missing features. BMD responded by brinting out a completely new ATEM Mini (and then two more modles) fising the problems but no firmware upgrade for the ATEM Mini. Seeing what they have done in this video would stop me investing in any serious money in BMD hardware.
I have a few old Blackmagic cameras...3 BMCCs and a mini 4.6k (not pro). They do what I need them to, which isn't a high standard at this point in my detoured life plan, but they haven't had updates in years.
Oh, I don't expect updates forever. Just weird to me they updated the older Pocket4k but not the URSA G2. Honestly, just the option to update to GEN 5 would be nice just to be able to match the other cameras on set.
The Ursa g2 ef mount is what I look for... Haven't found one near me, yet
talking about those problems, i have heard linus from linus tech tips say that the usa mini 12k suffers with screen problems or sth.
I think BMD had some technical issues early but have been fixed? Still have yet to play around with the URSA 12k but I have the URSA G2 which to me is their best camera. Thinking they come out with something else here soon as an upgrade to either
@@FrameVoyager i have no clue if it is fixed, as far as i remember they sold all of their ursa 12k cameras.
I remember that we ordered 2 of them right after watching the live NAB video broadcast in PL mount and a third one in EF a few weeks later camera 1 and 2 were delivered in october, first one sold in Canada ... and the problems started that day they were plagued with non-sense decisios like no way to color calibrate the huge screen and problems at birth like the camera shupping with burned led in the audio bagraph the blacksun was also affecting car headlights at night and since cars are usually moving the corrction in Resolve demanded tracking capability that resolve was lacking
The biggest problem with BMD is lack of any kind of after warranty service. Where basically if anything goes wrong after one year you are done for new purchase. Yes they do make relatively cheap hardware that usually works as advertised. But all their products have gotchas that can screw you over in professional environment.
At the risk of sounding illiterate, something about Blackmagic cameras annoys the shit out of me. Their ergonomics are annoying.
Ahahahah, I've had the same feeling for a while. I also just don't know if raw video on a small sensor is that important of a feature to choose a bmp6k over a mirrorless fullframe with 10bit colour and autofocus.
Like how much are you tweaking the footy.
It's cool to have the option tho and I love their video editing suite
I just want buttons & knobs/dials on my Production Camera 4K.
As for the touch screen: excellent response, fantastic simple menus and logically laid out (hoorah, no options 243 layers deep! (cough Panasonic cough)), but I want to set the shutter speed or frame rate with a dial - not by pressing a button, then poking the screen twice or more (especially since it's more or less impossible to see anything on it in daylight).
High end black magic camera Very expensive camera I can get out there with our family.
Please do more videos on that topic
Already working on another one 😉 the red 28k sensor
@@FrameVoyager Amazing !
We got a whole list of them we are working on! Fun project
Last week i found out that the company I work for still uses one for internal testing, so they don’t have to pay for rentals
hahaha nice! BEAST of a camera
The thing that sucks is, they're still selling the 4.6K at the same price point as the 12K(!?). It would make sense at this point to either lower the price of the 4.6K or just discontinue it altogether, right?
best rabbit hole i ever fell in
😂😂😂
This is my first cine cam in 2017, I brought a sec hand one and used it for a year and finish my first short film in my life. It has the top spec really at that time, 4K 120p raw, only red could do that. It's also the most silent cam I've ever used(I think there's a whole water cooling system built inside the cam) but it also makes it so so so heavy, even heavier than the alexas, it's a pain to use, I almost break my back several times when using it. I finally sold it after a year, but it gives me deep impression in terms of color, image Quilty and BMD the company. In the year, I learnt color grade and a lot of skills. In the day after I keep using BMD products like pcc4k and 6k, until last year I can afford a Red Monstro VV and go to the red team. All in all, thank u URSA, although you weights a ton of Sh**
😂 that's awesome! Really want to get one myself!
Abandoned you say? I got myself BMCC 2.5 EF - that's what i consider abandoned
haha I say it a bit tongue-in-cheek but don't worry, I'll follow up on some of the other BMD cameras eventually
Ahh so that's why the most expensive line of cameras by BMD is Ursa *Mini* but no non-mini Ursa ever been found. Despite the fact that the Mini is "standard-sized" for a professional grade cinema camera.
I love your channel! ❤
The place were I studied audio visual comunication had these, and they are great to be handled by students but as soon as I got out and worked with other cameras I noticed how awful the Ursa is, sad because is a good concept
It is really sad... Hope they release a new one at some point. The URSA Mini G2 really seems to be the pinnacle of the camera line so far
I had a 4.6k ursa mini that I purchased immediately on release. Within 3 years they said it was vintage and wouldn't service it or new firmware. I'm done with blackmagic.
I think they've overcome that hurdle. The older URSA's had a lot of issues. But the URSA G2 imo is one of the best. They got that URSA line right with the G2 which makes it confusing that they wouldn't update the software on it
It’s only a matter of time before they discontinue support for the G2. I’m having intermittent issues with my G1, 4 year old camera, and they say it’s irreparable due to no more manufactured parts. BMD does not stand behind the longevity of their products in the slightest. Now I’m left with a paperweight, that I can only bring on shoots with a high level of anxiety that it may not cooperate when it needs to
I dont know, I have a hate and love realtionship with BMD.
Davinici and Fusion is amazing.
But I had several Decklink Capture Cards fail on me while production. Colors where always off and there was no way to get them right somehow, the colors werent even consistent from one card to the other.
HDMI and SDI Version different resolution targets... just horrible really.
In the end we used a cheaper Elgato Gaming Capture Card with a SDI to HDMI converter and it was more reliable and the colors were fine, no greenish tint anymore and the Limited/Full RGB Range seems to work properly. Thats really sad for a Prosumer Capture Card BMD...
The only BMD Camera I had actuall contact with was one of these micro cinema cameras, these are nice, tiny cameras with good enough image quality, what a niche product. Though dont know how reliable these are.
I still own one of these original Blackmagic Ursa 4K cameras and love it. It's really just used for big rig practice on my Steadicam nowadays but it's a camera that always piqued my interest and other then the FPN, the not so great low light, and the black hole sun it's a great camera.
I used to have the AJA CION too, loved how the camera looked, but not so much the look the camera provided. It used the same sensor as these original ursa cameras if I'm not mistaken, so you were plagued with some similar issues but worst of all was the highlight roll off. It would have a harsh blue transition between any clipped area and highlights that would disrupt the image and the sun was black hole city. When properly exposed the image was great and just had an air of authenticity to it, but to get that was a real piece of work. Not to mention the AJA proprietary media, the PAK cards which were closing in on $1k USD for 1TB, and the lack of third party accessories for the camera made it quite expensive to Kit out even though they had built the camera with ease of use in mind. The shoulder pad was comfortable for a brief period of time, but it had no adjustability and when using any slightly heavy lens the camera was too front heavy to hand hold for extended periods of time due to the pad being far back on the camera. Menu system was a pain to scroll through on the operator side dial and button system and the volume rockers for the XLR ports constantly got stuck in the locked position because of the click in click out button system. Lovely camera, but not surprised they died off. Their external recorder technology is great, but didn't translate to their cinema camera attempt. Would love to get another one sometime for the archive though all things said
What about the 12K?
Also hope they update the G2. It seems like it hit a sweet spot!
G2 BRAW can use Gen5 Color in Davinci Resolve.... but the rest of the features never released for the G2.... such a disappointment.
True! But still can't use it in the field which is super annoying.
I still have this. I don't use it. But I have it.
oh interesting... Big camera to keep stored up haha! I'm thinking I want to get one at some point for fun haha
If I want to shoot 8K-12K HDR video, then I should choose the camera's LUT is this: Gen 5 Film to Rec 2020 PQ Gamma, but I chose this LUT, I found that the brightness of my video is not enough, it is rare that I should choose Gen 5 film Gen 5 Film to Extend1 or 2 ? my camera is Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro 12K
Since early 2021, l have asked BMD support many times about the Gen 5 firmware update for the UMP G2, but I didn't get any clear answer : they are aware that users want it but they don't have any information about it. As you said, this is a bummer considering this camera is newer than the P4K and that the G2 is their flagship product.
I know some people think I'm just straight trashing the URSA line in this video, but I'm not. LOVE my URSA G2 and I get that software updates are not offered very long on cameras, but to update the older pocket 4k to gen 5 and not the URSA G2? Either they can't do it because it's a software and sensor issue or it's no worth it to do it? It really has to be some kind of technical issue that keeps them from doing it, I would be blown away if it wasn't
@@FrameVoyager yep, I also own a G2 but I can’t understand why the older pocket cameras are getting Gen5 and not the G2. If it’s a technical issue, then they could communicate it to the customers/owners. I don’t believe it’s a technical problem as far as this is just a softer log curve and some color saturation tweaks between Gen4 and Gen5, nothing very difficult to handle in my opinion.
@@bastienchill Yeahhh, BMD is fairly quiet on a lot of things though so not surprising that we don't have a reason for it yet. But yeah, I feel like the color science should be fairly easy to change up but I also don't build cameras so what do I know haha
@@FrameVoyager let’s keep our fingers crossed 🤞🏻
Blackmagic has always been a weird company to me, i used to shoot with the original 4k all the time and then the first ursa mini but never liked them honestly. At this point i just kind of avoid them, just a pain to work in post with.
I find that everyone I know in the industry won't touch Blackmagic Cameras. Not because they suck or because they are unreliable but the company itself is just unreliable and their cameras tend to always be handicapped in one way or another. Just like the Ursa. I use Sony for everything, I love having my everyday camera using the same mount as my expensive camera rentals. That and Sony makes wonderful equipment that's pretty much bulletproof.
I think blackmagic’s only hope is to make an amazingly impressive micro cinema camera. 4K DGO sensor with 14+ dynamic range and 120fps. Full reliable smart phone control/monitoring. Same body size, and $1300 max. THEN they will steal people away from Sony A7Siii/A7IV, canon R5, etc. Otherwise, their specs just aren’t competitive the way they used to be
I almost fully agree except that price limit. Roll the clocks back to 2018, we were all expecting the BMPCC4K to effectively match the GH5S spec and pricewise, but include the internal 12-bit RAW that Panny was too p***y to implement (and still is to this day for the smaller cams that could have been given CFast 2) ...all for $2000-$2500. We all lost our 💩 when that $1300 price tag as unveiled. Today they could release exactly what you suggested, which is also right along my lines of prediction for July or August this summer, but at up to $1600 and they'd be fine to do so. They'd likely have to, due the chip shortage and governments/customs still pretending they have to overcomplicate overseas shipping due to COVID when reality is, the adjustments were and are simple and need not burden anyone anymore. Sorry for tangents. But yeah, I'd expect that to be just a little bit more than $1300, but very well worth it!
@@RenegadeFilmForce I agree it could be more than $1300 and be successful. But with canon releasing such low cost apsc cameras with 10bit and dual pixel autofocus… the market is tougher. Also, the GH cameras have way more premium stuff built into them than the pocket 4K, like IBIS, weather sealing and build quality, dual card slots, view finder, etc that sort of justified the higher cost.
The micro cinema but with updated specs really cannot cost more than $1500 to be really competitive into today’s market. Unless… LiDar autofocus! Lol
don't know if they can do it again at 1300$ after all the inflation. but they should use URSA mini 4.6k sensor which can do 4k 120fps. a more compact Mirrorless style body with better battery life.
and I would like to see Cube body cameras too. they can just develop new sensors for next gen BMPCC 4k/6k and also put those sensor in Cube bodies as they used BMPCC 6k sensor in Ursa broadcast camera.
@@captainradio5894 Probably meant only hope for a new market-shaking cash-cow on the same or similar level to what the P4K was for its first couple years.
@@RenegadeFilmForce yea, obviously the company is doing great over all and their pocket cameras are far from their only focus. I’m just saying if they want to dominate the consumer/indie filmmaking market once again, they need to lure everyone away from something like a Sony A7IV, canon R7, fuji XT4, or even Panasonic S5.
I have faith they’ll do it though, they generally always demonstrate a good reading of the current market conditions
The CinemaDNG RAW ability on the URSA V1 (my favourite) makes them highly sought after. It allows CinemaDNG RAW 4K 120FPS. The newer cameras only have Blackmagic RAW compressed formats which might be fine if you are used to the bad quality compression as standard on a Red or a Sony cine camera, but is a dealbreaker for me. Remember 4K CinemaDNG Raw is better quality than 16K compressed REDRAW or Blackmagic RAW. Meaning you can upscale to 16K compressed. ;) I just gave you a free 16K upgrade ;) Now get two CFast to SATA adapters (on ebay) and use dual Samsung SSDs that can write at 400MB/s+ so you can get CinemaDNG RAW 120FPS. (it needs the dual high speed cards or SSDs to use it)The FPN on these sensors might seem like a lot to deal with, but its easily forgiven. Just make your own FPN pattern and then use maxon red giant magic bullet AI denoiser. Can also use the Nvidia Optix AI denoiser, but magic bullet is the industry standard.
Look at the comparison here:
ua-cam.com/video/Pwii8ia_1Ms/v-deo.html
Blackmagic has the most realistic color compared to ARRI. Sony and Red don't come close. With maybe Canon being a little better, especially on skin tones. The trick is to use a Tiffen Water White IRND filter. This is the magic trick that makes the picture look as good as an ARRI. Without it the infrared makes everything look weird. ARRI has these built into the camera. If you put one of these on the lens of your Blackmagic URSA or Production Camera, it fixes all the weird color stuff and makes it into a truly high end picture.
CDNG > Redcode. CDNG > braw. Cine cameras should have CDNG on their cameras as standard. You are far far away from true 4K or even 8K if you don't have CDNG. 4K redcode or braw is closer to CDNG 720p upscaled to 4K if you pixel peep. The bitrate proves this. Try it and you will see. Arri has CDNG for a reason. And Red can't touch them, because Arri can counter sue with literally thousands of patents they own, having invented Cine cameras.
The true reason why Blackmagic dropped the URSA V1 and removed CDNG is a result of Red Digital Camera’s patent US9245314, which covers in-camera recording of lossless compressed raw video. Red is holding back the whole industry and forcing everyone to use shitty compressed codecs for no reason and worst of all. Red does not even use CDNG in their own cameras, but wants to stop everyone else who does. if you buy a Red camera, know that you are supporting holding the industry back and preventing the use of lossless video codecs.
R.I.P Ursa and Ursa Mini.
👼👼👼
i shot on the Mini G2 in april and it has Gen 5 color science
In camera or the ability to switch to gen 5 in post?
Both our URSA Mini Pro 4.6K OG has that stupid fixed noise pattern.
That's what I've heard. And it's weird because it's a mix of people who just don't know how to expose correctly, but also people with legitimate issues with the FPN in the sensor. Kind of confusing haha
Well this was depressing.
😂 maybe a little haha. Supposed to be a little dramatic
Am I the only one who thinks they need to rename the URSA Mini Pro to just be the URSA Pro? Then they could make an URSA Mini which is a box camera (Like the Alexa Mini). Just one of my random laying in bed at 3am thoughts.
Maybe? That would be interesting for sure. I just feel like maybe they bring back the URSA again someday? With an IMAX sized sensor?
I love it, it’s made for classic crew layouts and makes you think about every decision, forcing you to plan ahead. It’s a machine that teaches you how to do your work precisely.
Yep! It really was designed larger to be used by full crews and not just one person. Though you can operate it by yourself, it doesn't seem like it would be very fun haha. Kinda want to buy or rent one of those for NAB next year and walk around with it haha
I bought one in 2015 the picture quality was good but it was bulky with low light and sun issues.
I've heard the picture quality is great! I actually want to get one after making this video haha
@@FrameVoyager If you want one for cheap, look for the Production Camera 4k - it's basically the same camera (same sensor, still global shutter) except for a smaller perpendicular form factor (still weighs 1.7kg!), it only does 30FPS maximum, and has slightly compressed CDNG maximum to fit the write speed of the single SSD it uses. Also, no water cooling - it has a fan instead (which is probably inadequate; I think in dark/underexposed situations the FPN gets worse the longer you record, but I could be imagining it. Annoyingly, the fan's vent gets mostly covered by my tripod plate, exacerbating this.)
Hardware incompatibilities seem unlikely. BMD uses FPGAs in their products. So they can be reconfigured to do anything